[Music] beinge right at 7 o' I'm going to call the meeting to order join can you do roll call council members Ericson here lson here Miller here valento here mayor Roberts here and if you're able please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the for it stands one nation indivisible withy and justice for all all right Council we have an agenda in front of us is there anyone interested in making a motion to approve tonight's agenda also move I'll second second have first and second any discussion all in favor I I oppos next item open Forum uh this is an opportunity for anyone to speak uh to the council uh with any City uh related business we ask that you limit it to three minutes uh and come up and state your name and your address for the record so it doesn't look like is anyone that signed up or interested in speaking all right okay so uh consent agenda agenda looking for a motion to approve consent agenda a through 6 a through M actually through q a motion I make a motion second I'll second all in favor I I opposed motion carries great our first regular agenda item is an annual update from the Lakes area or lakes Center for Youth and families and we're going to introduce or welcome Dr Linda Matson well thank you I hope the rest of your meeting goes as quickly um so mayor Roberts and members of the council and staff um thank you for allowing me to give a brief presentation this evening uh I am Linda Madson and currently serving as the community outreach coordinator for Lake Center for Youth and families prior to that I was the executive director for five years and prior to that I worked in the Forest Lake School District for 36 years with my last um eight years of superintendent well as many of you know uh Lake Center was started in 1976 um by then Forest Lake Police Chief Jim Trudeau who later was the Washington County sheriff and he believed that youth that found themselves in trouble with minor offenses really needed the opportunity to reflect on their actions along with their parents or Guardians and take appropriate actions which could be an apology letter restitution taking a class Etc and he viewed th those minor infractions that youth find themselves in and probably all of us at one point probably found ourselves in is that instead of ignoring it or sending them to the county attorney and getting them into the court system there needed to be some middle ground and that has held true since 1976 so as time went on Intervention has stayed and we have developed other programming to serve Youth and Family that's been very varied over those many years but intervention has stayed um we have three areas of programming um at Lake Center currently and enrichment programming um intervention and counseling enrichment programming has included youth first which is an afterschool program for students in grades four through six in Chisago County um it's free of charge or was free of charge for students we ran it for eight years taking it over from a nonprofit that um folded and um we have had grant funding for those eight years but unfortunately for this year it was not um continued which is very common in eight years is a long time to have continue with a grant um but during last year we had 120 participants and 596 sessions of that programming safety Camp has been going on for a long time in force Lake and it's for youth entering grades three through five it's held in the summer for one to two days first aid bike safety and other um presentations around safety are the focus of the program it's planned and delivered by Lake Center staff and then also the force like police and fire departments and then Community leaders as well intervention um as I mentioned has been with us for a long time and we have had contracts with Chisago and Washington counties to provide the intervention services that I mentioned not much has changed in a real General sense um from 1976 to the present in terms of assisting youth um to help them develop healthy decision-making skills and interrupt those harmful Behavior patterns overall 189 clients were served in the Intervention Program with 258 sessions the three main referral sources are shago and Washington counties in the Forest Lake Police Department Washington County had 56 clients last year and 48 of those clients were from Forest Lake also an intervention is a program at Lynwood Elementary we have a full-time staff member there um and she works um and Lynwood Elementary is in the northern part of the Forest Lake School District and she works with individual students small groups and classrooms of students um and the focus of the work is really to identify potential areas of concern before they come become a concern so we look at that instead of intervention it's more a prevention um program and we've um last year over 400 students and that is a duplicated count so they may have been in a couple of different programs participated in that program we've um this has also been funded through a state grant for six years and was renewed for two more years in 2024 for twice as much as the previous year again which hardly happens in the grant world so we're thrilled that that has happened and then we have a brand new program and you have a handout on that um that would fall under intervention and it's the education engagement program um it provides support for students in Chisago Lakes North Branch and Rush City school districts we have two full-time staff members that were hired and the funding comes from the St c um River education district and the shago County Human Services district and to get kids if they have um absentee issues or tardy issues ETC to really look into why is that um is it about transportation is it about um you know it could be um lack of food or lack of adequate clothing Etc so why is it they're not coming to school and then working to solve those issues and then counseling is our third program area we serve young children through adults our youngest client is three and our old our oldest clients are in their 7 and 80s and we serve them virtually um also in our office and in the Forest Lake School District and at Lakes International Language Academy we have an inter agency agreement which we've had for many years with the force Lake School District so therapists come in students come out of their classroom they have their 50-minute session and then they go back and that um eliminates a lot of barriers for families and for students when you look at the client counts in various age categories you'll notice that 52 clients were aged 6 through 10 and 86 were aged 11 through 15 and a lot of times people think about counseling is something that adults um engage in and we certainly see our youth engaging in them as well and certainly since Co they s they have even more we served 2117 counseling clients for 3,468 sessions 88 of those clients were from Washington County and 78 were living in Forest Lake um we don't turn clients away due to financial hardship whatever that hardship might be um we had 33 clients that utilized our sliding fee scale for 303 sessions and the total amount for that in our budget was um almost $33,000 um to make sure that those clients could um get the services that they need and 13 of those clients receiving assistance lived in Forest Lake our income comes from program fees grants as we've talked about charitable gaming special events you have a flyer for the taste of the Lakes which is May 1st at Tanner Brook um so you buy a ticket and there's many restaurants that are there and you go around and get to taste um all the good food that's there um municipalities and counties and on the back of the annual report you'll note those that have supported Lake Center in 2024 and most have done so in multiple years and that includes the city of Forest Lake um the Forest Lake City council's decision to enter into a five-year agreement with Lake Center has been extremely helpful financially and helping us in our planning as well um and I also want to thank at this point um Chief Peterson for serving on the lake center board for many years and um as the board chair when I was the executive director he was um also the board chair for two years years and his guidance and help and um through some um sometimes challenging times um was appreciated and um he he did a great job as the board chair and as a board member so thank you um so on behalf of the board of directors the staff and our participants and clients I thank you so um I certainly can answer any questions you may have or if you think of them later if I don't have the answer now I can get back to you so are there any questions that anyone has Council anyone have any questions for Dr Matson no questions but I just want to thank you for the service that you provide back to the community your board members uh the relationship that we have the city has with with the organization is is outstanding I appreciate Chief Peterson's time in this over the years and and uh if we can continue to strengthen and Foster this relationship I I think the council would be be open to that so thank you so much all right thank you all right uh next agenda item 7B petition for Road Improvement Inman Avenue 224th Avenue in Jolene walk us through this thank you Mr Mayor um in your packet you'll not that a petition was received by some residents in the area of 224th and Inman Avenue that petition is requesting an analysis of the costs that would be incurred to pave portion of 224th and Inman Avenue some of 224th is already paved so it wouldn't be a full um pavement job um the petition is essentially requesting a feasibility study and because a feasibility study incurs costs by the city it's a decision that Council needs to make to move forward with that feasibility study or not so in your packet is a the petition but also a copy of a resolution which would authorize um or declare the adequacy of the P petition and Order preparation of a feasibility report if Council elects to move forward with approval of that resolution that would authorize Ryan and his team to complete a formal feasibility report after that report is completed Council would analyze the details of the report and make a decision on moving forward with that project or not um the information would also be p uh presented to the petitioners who um would not be obligated to move forward with a petition for Road Improvement they could back out at that time but were they to move forward after determining what the costs were Council would have to decide on assessments for the project as well um Mr Jeff garritson um who has spearheaded the petition on behalf of the residents in that area is here this evening and could stand for questions should Council like to ask him any questions um I I guess another point I'd just like to make um because a feasibility study does incur cost staff time engineering cost if council is going to order that that report be completed that study be completed I think Council should also decide how that that study would be paid paid for so a either the city just absorbs those costs um or B the city asks the residents who have signed this petition to either enter into an escro agreement or a billback agreement so those are the two questions before council tonight um whether to move forward and authorize the resolution um and then secondly to determine the costs and who would be paying for those for the feasibility report any questions initially here we can start discussion on it just one question is and um maybe the resident can answer better is why now um why is it before us now figc um it it came forth when we were at the meeting for our shore and we have tried to have inmen and 224th paav several times over the years and different times the different residents there uh didn't want to have the assessments and now everybody on the road minus one person is interested because the new neighborhood is creating much more traffic on the road and they paved the one side of the road but they didn't improve Irish Avenue which creates a bottle nck so all the new homeowners are taking the other way which creates the problems that uh the rest of us residents are experiencing so right thank you any other questions for for Jeff as long as Mr as long as he's up yeah Mr Mayor um 22410 that's your address yes how many acres do you have there uh 1.2 and the parcel that's across the street Inman is that a vacant lot that is a DNR boat launch boat launch okay all right that makes sense when I started on this I was just asking for inmen to be paved because of the added traffic at the boat launch due to the restaurant people parking there and the boat launch people and seeing Northshore was being done I figured that Inman would be that one little segment on Inman it would be easy but then all the neighbors said well what about us so this is growing and the person so then to the north that's a pretty big parcel as well do you know how many acres that is uh to the north of me is the same size I think it was a split lot so they're about acre and a quarter but um I improved my home 10 years ago and our road was a full service road inmin was and then I I paid for an assessment to have my house close to the road and then two years after that they took that segment of Inman and made it a low maintenance road so from the corner of 224th North is low maintenance and and the I'm responsible for keeping that road up so and I'm not looking to pave that section of the road I was looking to just pay with bolt launches and then 2204 so and forgive me U because I don't know this water and sewers is there already we do not have water we have city sewer okay and and there is not sewer in the road every all the sewer lines go down to norshore okay and of the houses I'm seeing on this map how many signed the petition everyone uh every house that was present signed there was one house that they they reside in New Orleans over the winter and they said yes but they didn't sign it and then the house behind me didn't sign because they aren't act they're on the low maintenance Road and um there is one house that doesn't have access to 224th and and we actually we don't know what happened to them they disappeared two months ago and the house is basically vacant at the moment so thank you what's the tempo of the other neighbors if there's an assessment involved uh one neighbor is very apprehensive about the assessment they signed yes and they uh they are very curious about the cost the rest of the neighbors are really tired of the dust and the potholes and the washboards and so and the one neighbor that said no is also apprehensive about assessments and he's he's having other issues at the moment so extra cost AR good for him thank you sir any other questions for mron um staff I know you're waiting on send the packet but just publicly concerns Ryan yourself or Andor mark on on this I think before Ryan gets into more of the technical stuff I'll just note that you know back of the napkin sketch estimates would would have this if you just looked at the number of parcels that are signing the um petition the here is tens of thousands of dollars per lot not thousands of dollars so just in that you know it's going to be closer to 30,000 and is to three per parcel if you were to do it that way um which is what our assessment policy contemplates now there's some Nuance to that there's a the larger Lots would be looked at to see if they could subdivide and then they would be charged lot equivalent sort of so you could and then if there's these other newer neighbor that newer neighborhood if there should be any asss to them because they also use it that could be looked at but I just want to every everyone's mind in the right place that this is this is going to be tens of thousands not thousands um when we come down to it uh have you reached out at all to that new newer neighborhood no okay everybody that's paided we figured wasn't involved in this but that it makes sense they're they're utilizing their road so and I don't think Irish there's any plan to improve Irish so the the traffic's probably going to keep going the other way so and the last time we did this I think was in 2005 and at that time it was about $7,000 a parcel so with with that back in the abin guesstimate does that give you some hesitation or pause do you think or yourself or other neighbors that that dollar amount no okay right Ryan mayor city council this area has some history uh as a gentleman has outlined before you uh back in 2007 we didn't have Watershed rules and requirements uh and the density that's out there right so currently inmen coming off of Northshore Trail is approximately 18 ft wide up to 224th that portion of 224th is 16 ft wide and I think think the area that's being referred to as a low maintenance roadway area is the portion of Inman that's north of 224th and that's approximately 14 feet in width ideally when we come in and do a road improvements we're looking to at least obtain 20 fets which is still less than the city standard but in a rural area like this uh that's what where we would try to achieve and supplements you know some gravel base and a geotextile below the sand in that area and 4 Ines of Pavements which would align probably what the cost was back in 057 obviously by T minutus prices have gone way different than it was back then uh just some rough the back napkin you know with 12 assessible Lots but I remember back uh when this was going through that uh report process way back when there were some of these lots that were going to be considered two uh units so two two assessments so I think some of the votes might change then if that's that's what would come out in the report right if you go to a full-blown feasibility study report but if you have 12 Lots um just some real quick cost without doing any zign or uh because we got some grades out there too you you might need curbing gutter in some areas to nots uh to prohibits erosion but now we got to catch the storm water runoff and take it to an area to be treated before it can leave the area so now accounting for storm water we're probably looking at a total project cost of anywhere between 380 and 440 which would mean approximately $30,000 to $336,000 per unit and I don't know if you go through an appraisal process how that would be justified so if you do do the 429 process you're going to probably want to obtain uh a waiver of the 429 process so that's that's the bad news right uh because when we got to put in storm water requirements areas to treat that you got to get the water there so that's where some of the curbing gutter is in here and then just how narrow this roadway is and when we lost the number of homes that previously would have been part of this project in seven because when um was it 200 16 to 18 somewhere there Third Lake Estates came in and built that new subdivision that dead end cesac the developer negotiated to pave 224th only to the end of his plats and not carry it out with the traffic um but then was approved and allowed to just do a calcium chloride for the duration of that uh construction that's why then you lose so many more number of units that would have been part of this assessment project back No7 so that's why then again you see a higher per unit cost with today's dollars because you got less units too that's the full picture that I know and I don't know if I missed it in the in the report here is there a cost estimate cost for the the ass was all done down on vacation I'm sorry what was that this was done on vacation time so I think I think the mayor's asking what's the cost of the report R yeah is did I miss that well I I think we need to all first set some uh um barriers of what this is going to be right and I think some conversations need to occur with public works and the fire chief first before we know what we're even committing to we need to have some separate conversations with the Watershed District uh before we even get into that and then uh just some high level review of parcels with City staff on how are we going to either break that up or not uh obviously we'll try to do it on as fast as we could but I need to answer some of those questions first so because if it's wider than what I just kind of outlined then we need to bring survey in to do that to account for earth work and stuff like that but we don't want to have to go do all that if uh there's some other considerations to be put into the actual report so it's could vary what you would be information be putting into it so I think we definitely could have those conversations between now and next city council meeting and bring that that stuff back for the next council meeting easily if it's the appetite to move forward based on just some of the stuff that we just talked about again Mr Mayor to sort of order of magnitude you know a feasibility report for something like this might run 10 to 15,000 why wasn't it done before do you remember does anybody know when like 07 costs so there's a lot of these Pockets throughout the city and they all have a story and they're all similar that the proposed assessment was not supported Mr Mayor I think I think also serving on planning for as long as I have there was always the hope that a couple of these Parcels were going to get developed into more Lots which would minimize the cost to the people that are currently there and I think that was one of the other reasons why it never moved forward so I guess um it's very rare that we have seemingly willing residents coming to us saying yeah I'm open to an assessment on improving roads I think we need to take advantage of that or at least welcome that um that said you know 10 to 15,000 a study is not insignificant uh but if it's with the payment policy it is is where both where the homeowners are burying this expense if that's our only expense or we've got staff time and all the rest that I I would be open to continuing this conversation now maybe to uh Ryan's Point having some more initial conversations with with the the other parties involved um and then coming back to us to see what their you know what their thought is on it and then commit ourselves or not commit ourselves we can we do have an option for this study to be escrowed in a billback type situation as well correct so that still was an option for us yeah I think unfortunately that option you know is going to require all of the folks to sign up um unless the council um had some other policy but I think probably the the best path forward here is just to let us bring this back to we have some conversations with the residents about that bill back um scenario see how amable they are to that um and then Ryan can have a more solid number on what that feasibility is costs and um we just work with a little bit better information I think the the idea tonight was just to get an idea is there any appetite at all and um you know the all the downer notes Here the the upper notes are that we're doing a project right alongside here if we can get moving we could probably incorporate this into something at least at least an attractive bid for the current um whoever wins the bid for Northshore right so there there are some reasons to do it now right to try to do it now so um I do think it's it's worth the study but we want to make sure that you the city's not out $15,000 on a Boose Chase of some sort of make sure there's some commitment that's why I asked the question I that that $30,000 is not a small number I'm I'm not uh real estate appraisal person but that value to be on a black top road is you'd probably get some of that back or back potentially so if I meet someone in your shoes I would be still considering as well even though and and I think it can be assessed over time correct at a very small how many 30 years 30 years at a small interest rate so that that monthly you know that yearly cost is you know is isn't that hard to to take on uh so are you just you have enough direction are you looking for motion at this this point I think we're at a place where if you're comfortable just tabling this for the next meeting and I think as far as feedback from Public Safety and public works if it means conceding not having what our standards are to get this road fix if it only has to be 18 I'm I'm open to that too because it's a better position that end goal would be better than we are right now pot Road uh potholes and washboard and Road and all that so um do you need a motion to table or we just yeah may I speak one more yeah absolutely sorry so I I believe that that we started this without a lot of information and you were working on a document that would help lay out the procedures and lay out what possible costs could be and having that before would have helped a lot and I'm willing to go back and talk to all the neighbors and and test the temperature of what you know the number might be but we had no idea at all what the number would be sure and so I don't know if you could estimate it a little closer talk to everyone at least have something that I can go back verbally to all the neighbors I can come back with the answer I can share the answer with you what what they really feel that the number really is going to be 30,000 over 30 years or if it's going to be 5,000 five years you know that's that's important for them to make their decisions so well I would I would suspect Ryan you're not too far off on that number right you do this for living so you you have a pretty good idea but maybe that's part of the conversation between now and the next council meeting to to with with you know representative here or maybe some of the other neighborhood people I don't know if I had the information I could have that back for next council meeting we Mr Mayor we'll work with the residents here and as other folks and be able to come to a resolution to bring back to you whether we're heading in the right direction or not I think we'll be able to have that order magnitude discussion right and remind Mo do we need a motion to table should either way okay yes all right uh so do I have a motion to table the petition or the road Improvement conversation on inmin and 224th so moved second second any other discussion all in favor I I opposed yes thank you next item 7c Force Lake uh Force Lake Street reconstruction bonding uh we have a representative here from Ellers uh I don't know if someone staff's going to kick this off or we'll go right to uh to Dan here um yeah I can kick this off just quickly um as you know we are moving forward at least we're going to move forward gets on norshore Drive um we um are the cost of that project is necessitates a bond or for lack of a better term a loan the city to take out and um so we have Representatives here from ERS tonight to walk through the more technical details of that um we did um published in in the paper a notice that's had sort of a higher amount than we were are going to talk about tonight tonight we're going to talk about the lower amount after the that chunk of the project was eliminated the million dollars or so was eliminated so we'll be talking um in terms of five to five and a half million depending on which number um we're end up talking Nuance to what what that total is um that I won't try to get into we let the experts tell you that but um so that's just the long and short of it is just like a construction project there's a bid that's put out for a bond and so different banks bid on it just like contractors B on the construction project and so I think that's what going to walk it through so great all right welcome thank you well good evening thank you your honor members of the council as mentioned my name is Dan tinter I'm Municipal adviser with Ellers I'm your on of Bruce Kimmel who sends his apologies uh but he is in Mexico right now on spring break so it regrets he can't be here this evening uh as mentioned by the city administrator we're here this evening really for two items the first is consideration of a street reconstruction and overlay plan and there is an Associated public hearing with those proceedings and assuming the council ultimately decides to move forward with the plan there's also included in your packet of resolution uh authorizing the issue of bonds in the form of what we call a pre-sale which is essentially the council's approval to say okay go forth and do well solicit the bids on our behalf and then come back to us in a bit of time and uh discuss the results and then at that at that point you'd have the opportunity to award uh the sale of the bonds um in discussing the two items we'll take the street reconstruction and overlay plan first generally in the state of Minnesota you have the option to borrow for any number of items but most of the time under state law it actually says you need to go go to a referendum uh and ask the general public for essentially their say so to issue the debt there are a number of exceptions under law in order to accomplish that and one sub exception is the consideration and approval of a street reconstruction plan as mentioned by the city administrator in order to accomplish this first you have to provide a notice uh and then hold a public hearing that public hearing has to be held within 10 to 28 days of the notice and then at the public hearing any members of the public uh uh need to be provided the opportunity to provide any comments on the plan and then if the council thinks it's so in order you can close the public hearing and then of course take action on the plan itself once the plan is adopted however if the council decides that's in is in order it doesn't quite end the process one of the other items you have to get through is what we call a 30-day reverse referendum period where after the plan is adopted interested residents have the opportunity to petition the city if they secure a petition of 5% of the eligible voters from the last general election then they can force the bond to a referendum and the council cannot issue the debt unless the actual issuance is approved by a referendum so we have these extra steps essentially to have a little process and if you go through all of them then you do not have to put the bond issue directly to referendum and so that's the reason for these multiple steps in the process ultimately most of the time the street reconstruction plans tend not to be very controversial they're usually fairly straightforward forward uh I've personally never seen a reverse uh referendum petition on a bond of this nature um but ultimately there is some process after the plan is approved if the council decides to move forward then the next step in the process would be approve a resolution authorizing the sale and issuance of the bonds uh at that point in time we'd essentially wait the 30 days and then much like the city administrator referenced after that we would prepare something called an official statement which you can think of as like a perspectus for like a stock that you may trade in your personal lives that perspectus is actually put out competitively to the entire Bond underwriting market and so it's not uncommon sometimes to get Banks from Texas and Pennsylvania and California all over the place buying these bonds because they're doing so for their funds or their own investors um at that point in time once we receive the bids we award on the true interest cost or basically the interest rate of the bonds and then that evening uh the council will be furnished with the bid results along with a recommendation from Ellers and staff if it's in order to accept the bids and award the bonds once the bonds are awarded you can think of that as kind of signing the purchase agreement and then usually about 3 weeks later we'll have a closing and that's when the money is actually wired and made available to the city so you can start uh paying for the project authorized under all of that process I just described so those are all the uh moving Parts as my lawyer friends say there's quite a few ins and outs but I'd be happy to answer any questions the council may have about the street reconstruction plan and the process related to that or the call for sale or the bonds themselves thanks for putting that in layman's terms for the most part appreciate that do my best uh any any questions to council Mr may I um could you explain are is this issue going to be accompanied by a um a rating of Val I'm using the term um rating evaluation help help me term yeah a credit rating um your honor members of the council um if you look at the uh pre-sale report included in your packet on page four of the pre-sale report there's actually a proposed debt issuance schedule and you will notice that uh the week of April 28th 2025 that's when we would have what we call the due diligence call that's when uh the city administrator and the finance director get to walk through a multi-question questionnaire asking an a number of questions about the financial health and status of the city and then along in in that week there is also a conference with a credit rating agency uh and typically that takes the form of a uh virtual meeting with the credit rating analysts they will ask a series of questions about the management practices of the city it's Financial Health its current leverage the state of its economy and usually a few miscellaneous questions using that information plus the information in the official statement related to the bond along with a number of other documents that they'll ask the staff for like your audit financial statements your current budget uh your top 10 taxpayers Etc they will then furnish an opinion on the credit credit worthiness of the municipality that opinion is independent and it is their judgment of the city uh and it's used by the folks that underwrite the bonds as an independent analysis ultimately the credit rating is used uh to attach the interest rate that the folks will bid on your bonds with uh because generally the interest rate is aoxy for the riskiness uh that the city May default on the bonds and so that credit rating helps translate that risk into something that they can distill for the day of bid purposes and if you could just explain the the calculation in your mind or your firm's mind just as to why we should do that as because there is a cost to that um I'm assuming you determine that the the offset of um getting better bids because we have a credit rating with this is far offsets the cost of doing that rating uh your honor members of the council yes that's absolutely correct so the reason you ultimately go through the credit rating process is uh you can sell Bonds on an unrated basis but generally you would receive a much higher interest rate on those bonds because the underwriters and banks that would be bidding would not necessarily have the independent opinion of the credit rating agencies to inform the the risk adjusted decision they need to make when bidding on the bonds so ultimately if you have a a relatively in this case um High credit rating the city is a AA plus so just one from the top um you would receive a much more preferential uh interest rate and then over the life of the bonds the interest payable on those bonds would be significantly less than if you had a lower rating or if you sold the bonds competitively on an unrated basis that's really a long way of saying that the cost of the credit rating is is much much much much less and far exceeded by the interest rate savings that the city would experience over the life of the bonds and ultimately the cost that would be passed along to the taxpayers in the form of the property tax levy that supports the debt service so you end up saving money a lot of money by spending a little money up front makes sense thank you for walking us through that uh so next steps here are would be go to into a public hearing on this is that correct you're honor members of the council yeah if the council deems it to be so in order you would open the public hearing and then give the opportunity for any members of the public to provide comment on the plan all right with that uh at 7:41 I'm going to open the public hearing on the issuance of $5.5 million General Bond obligation for Street reconstruction this specifically is on the NorthShore project which we've been working working with and discussing since well almost a year now uh and so if there's anyone in the public that's interested to speak to this uh please come up state your name and address and um we'll hear what you have to say just leave it open for just a couple more moments while we fill the void here I'll just make sure that we note that the the public hearing is um very specifically for the street reconstruction plan um just it's a bit of a Nuance there okay although the NorthShore uh project is prominent in that plan it is part of a larger that's right plan and that's why we're able to issue these bonds the way we are so thank you for clarifying that correcting that all right anyone interested in coming to speak down this okay I will close the public hearing at 7:42 and bring it back to council and Andor staff or ERS representative Mr Mayor if I may I'll make a a motion for moving forward with resolution approving a street reconstruction plan and the issuance of General Obligations Street reconstruction bonds I think it's been labeled um 032 24 2507 great we have motion we have second I'll second any discussion all those in favor I I opposed motion carries and is there anyone interested in making a motion the next resolution I'll make a motion we move forward with uh resolution 0324 2508 the resolution providing for the issuance and sale of the general obligation Street reconstruction bonds series 2025a and the proposed aggregate principal amount of $5.5 million we have a motion as there a second I'll second second any discussion all in favor I I oppose motion carries great thank you are members of the council and we'll be seeing you honor around May 12th to discuss the bids on the bonds great thanks for walking us through this enjoy the rest of your meeting right uh next item 7D Hidden Creek South concept plan review in Abby yes thank you mayor Blake member Blake mayor Roberts members the council um up on the screen you'll see a site location that the city has received a concept plan for a subdivision of two Parcels um proposal from Headwaters Land Group is an extension of the current Hidden Creek neighborhood this is the Hidden Creek South so it would be the additions 4 through eight kind of keeping um that roadway kind of coming back around looping around to Headwaters Parkway extending the parkway on just as a reminder for the council and for newer members um who maybe aren't as familiar concept plans are an opportunity for the city to provide informal feedback this is nonbinding feedback but it's information to give to the developer so that the developer has enough to go back and to start preparing preliminary platting um documents so as a reminder we have a three-step subdivision process uh concept plan which we're at now preliminary plat and then final plat you will see this again um in with a lot more refinement so on a high level what the developer would be proposing to do is to subdivide um the two Parcels into 173 New Lots that it ranged between 50 feet wide and 60 feet wide this excuse me 65 feet wide those 65 ft wide lot foot wide lots that you um are are shown up there in red and those really kind of extend the existing neighborhood characteristics that we have in Hidden Creek the bluish Lots um to the East are 50 foot wide lots and our a newer product that would be de um developed by Capstone homes newer to Forest Lake but not newer um by Capstone who would be the um anticipated builder for this uh development's extension they are the current builder in Hidden Creek um so just as a frame of reference the property is a part of the final planned unit development of um Headwaters neighborhood so this is a pretty old plan development that actually started um as a partnership between the city and the private development Community Highway 61 that development of Headwaters Parkway we've got the county service center the YMCA the library we've got the Fenway Athletic Complex we've got some residential neighborhoods that get built out there's the headwaters 123 site that was originally slated for residential it's been changed now we're moving to the west of Fenway Avenue we've built out the single family neighborhood to the north and we're working on that Hidden Creek to the Northwest Hidden Creek South kind of lands in this um southeast of the parkway extension and had been guided for both single family and town halls so um while the under L zoning district is the mxr1 zoning district and would require a minimum 65 foot wide lot and a 7500 squ foot lot the Pud did contemplate some um home sizes smaller with those town homes so one thing that's noted in the um staff report is even though these are not attached town homes they have a narrower home a narrower lot field that can sometimes be some communities depending on definitions a detached town home we don't have that in our code right now but that is kind of similar to what would have been partially contemplated in this area um so overall with the development pattern that you see right here the uh development is has a an estimated density of 3.07 units per acre comp plan requires this be a minimum of three units per per acre so we're just barely above that threshold there's the anticipation that after Wetland delineation and those sorts of things that density might increase a little but not much so those 50 foot homes um are contributing to us being able to achieve that density it's partially what is helping um in the for the consistency with the comp plan Planned unit developments um we use them not necessar to break the rules but where there's challenging sites where we might be able to preserve environmental resources where we might be able to create greater neighborhoods um such as you saw with the headwaters design right the intention really was to create this kind of neighborhood feel and um this is an extension of that the question of going smaller than the minimum lot size in the zoning district and that older planned unit development is something that the Planning Commission when they reviewed it were concerned about as well as the smaller roadway widths that could be proposed with the development predominantly they're concerned for things like on street parking the number of driveways and the ability to just be able to maneuver through these um tighter neighborhoods um especially for things like public safety concerns overall the development we do comment on just um pedestrian connectivity not only along in the in the development but along the parkway on both sides the idea being we'd have Trails on the north and south or east and west depending on which way you look at the Parkway in that alignment um so that we can really continue kind of those um looped designs and it really helps us with maintenance when we've got those Trails on both sides uh one thing that I will a couple things that we will note we are currently working on a Parkway alignment study that really does look at how Headwaters Parkway will connect with Elm Crest um the the headwaters excuse me the Hidden Creek I believe contemplated it curving around 195th we're studying that as well as the elm Crest design the proposed Al um alignment from the developer kind of follows along more that middle property line um kind of almost straddling that property line so we have advised the developer that we might need to rec configure some of that Parkway design as we learn more information as we're doing our study uh looking at the Pud one thing the development is proposing in originally contemplated with Hidden Creek was the acquisition of more land for public Green Space a park that would straddle the current Hidden Creek neighborhood and then the future kind of um South neighborhood this uh Park L to be dedicated would have some potentially active recreational and passive Recreation though it has not been reviewed by The Parks Commission brand new Parks Commission we thought we'd give them a meeting before bringing this concept back to them the former Parks Commission did review this they did like the idea of land dedication to help serve this residential neighborhood this is a lot of homes Hidden Creek itself is um that's being developed right now is 125 Hayden Creek South's 173 you know we've got 300 potentially 300 families that um right in this area so this will be going to the Parks Commission in April um also when it comes to planned unit developments again we that idea that we want to do some site design but then we also kind of look at if we're going to make concessions on things like lot sizes and potential roadway widths what are some of those public considerations what is the public benefit for breaking the rules the developer notes in um and the bill Builder note in their narrative included and made comment to the Planning Commission smaller Lots um generally means uh lower prices on homes that's just a smaller lot a smaller home um that's one thing that that that is um identified as a a public benefit and then also just that uh possibility of that community park being built out one thing I didn't know didn't um mention just now about Parkland is we have talked with the developer about the potential for a little bit of land dedication in the southwest corner southwest corner that could be added to other land dedications or other subdivisions for a small pocket park maybe just open Green Space so kids that are to the south of the parkway had some open space to go to didn't always have to cross the parkway for to get to the larger Park um the developer has been advised we do have the jd4 storm water study in this area so they do know they need to account for some of that existing judicial ditch storm water so the design that you see here might alter some that's certainly an area that we also could look at potentially um some green space for the neighborhood overall the the plan you know generally conforms to the underlying older PUD it's um consistent with the comp plan and that it's meeting those density concern those density requirements the Planning Commission did however Express their concern as I shared with you those smaller lot sizes and those narrower roads are just a concern over overall neighborhood livability um and then just in general going smaller than the original PUD was a concern so tonight uh with us is John dobs with Headwaters land group he's here to chat with you about this if you have any questions for him or if you have any questions for me great thanks any initial questions Council Abby I have a question when planning looked at this did they H look at the lots that are backing up to Headwaters Parkway and did they talk about things like burms Landscaping trees versus fences one of the things that I know we were trying to pay close attention to in Headwaters was not having a bunch of fences along Headwaters and so I guess my first initial thought is has there been any discussion about some way to not have your backyards right on Headwaters you know without having fences in terms of BMS or trees or Landscaping um they did not I do um I wouldn't anticipate this is a a neighborhood that's going to have an HOA but um and we don't have any design standards that would prohibit fences so I do think that as a PUD mechanism we might be able to look at those as a potential opportunity um if not prohibition of fences but fence materials so that we're not having that solid wall I know that that is something usually of a concern but it hasn't been brought up yet thus far good point there uh any any other initial questions Mr dobs would you like to come up and speak to to the project good evening John dobs head large Land Group um yeah I Abby covered most of it um I would talk like to talk a little bit about the uh need for the Liberty which is what Capstone refers to him as the blue uh design you have some mark thank you um back when the Pud study was done for the original um uh Headwaters area um and I hate to admit it but I've been doing this for a while and back then we did a lot of attached product and a lot of different Builders did town houses back toback Ro houses um things like that over the last 20 years though with the increase in cost of building code insurances um Association law and a lot of other factors it's actually become more expensive to do attached product this detached uh small single family is actually more affordable um and when I say affordable uh you know it's not a legal term but right now I had a loan officer from uh uh Bell Mortgage Bell Bank do some uh initial kind of stuff for me before the Planning Commission and to buy a pretty the most affordable single family house right now that Capstone is going to put in the second phase and into the third phase of what we currently have going on the red Lots um you need to make a 100 Grand a year with no debt um that's a number for a salary the smaller ones the ones on the screen right now 75,000 725 is your salary so um you know that was what my first house cost in 1993 um so this is Affordable single family uh uh detached new construction as you can do these days in the metropolitan area unless you go way out and uh yeah so it's just trying to provide homes for people at a variety of different price points um so that's the need for it uh that's why Capstone asked to do it there are um several different communities of this product uh some in Ramsay which I've been involved in uh representing some land owners up there for what Capstone is built they also have it down at Cottage Grove I believe we sent the addresses in so you did yep I just didn't include them in the display materials but I certainly can pull that up so if you wanted to take a road trip and go take a look Abby could give you addresses for what the product type looks like um and then just briefly the other couple things I'd like to touch on is is that the road width that we're proposing in the new side is no different than what we did on the North side we're not asking for anything other than what we've already done and again it's to affordability and I understand that there are some issues I've heard about them uh Abby just mentioned them um narrower roads when communities are used to wider roads but um decisions about size and decisions about Road widths um have consequences related to cost and affordability and they just do and um you know I'd love to be able to do more affordable stuff be great um it's just almost impossible to do for a variety of factors including zoning including cost including insurances including raw material costs I mean all the above um so we're just trying to find a way through um interest rates are up a lot in the last year so um that's the world I live in anyway um and then uh the only other thing is just I would like to talk a little bit about parks and I heard your comment about fences and that's very helpful I've never heard that one before but I'll take a look at it um as I look at the uh Lots on the east side of future Headwaters in particular that's a row so yeah maybe we can pull them apart put a small BM in there or something and maybe yeah something you I'll take a look at that um and then the other one is the park and I actually was uh I presented uh in front of the old park commission and um not only did they want land in the center but they also uh we talked about the idea of us building the park up front and trying to get it built not just dedicating land and um and that's been our goal for a while um and it's still our goal now um I think we're going to be in the Parks Commission next month and um I'm going to talk about that in a more formal way but we would like to try to use not only land but the actual design process itself try to allocate some of the funds that we've already paid in and future funds and just build it not wait um I did back three years ago I think it's all kind of bleeds together but I think that was when the park commission met last time um I sat through a number of meetings where there was a lot of discussion about uh Park land in the city and uh one of the things I heard said was is it would be good to get a park and it get built all at once and that that seemed to be something that the city had struggled with in the past um it's important to us it's important to the Builder it's important to the neighbors that are already there um first phase went great 2221 uh nebor uh families live there now about $10 million in real estate value when we do the second phase it'll be close to1 million um we're they're already halfway through the second phase and it got paved on Thanksgiving Day or the day before Thanksgiving so um Project's going great and all those people would like a place to take their families and do things um that's a concept I think uh parking lot and volleyball courts and some other things we're kind of the staff has been very helpful and giv some feedback we're working through some of that um but yeah so we're pretty excited and Project's going great so I'll answer any other questions if you have them actually I just have a couple questions for Abby um one is you know the with the park or the py commission's concern about the 50 foot wide Lots how do we what's the plan to hit that 3.0 or greater without having smaller Lots it's a really great question um you know you you hope that there's more Wetland on the area that's grossing out some of you're netting out some of the land but this is just one of the biggest challenges we're facing with the requirements that we have to meet those minimum standards it you've seen the plats in front of you over the years it's extremely difficult and we have reduced our lot sizes in the mxr1 district already down to um the minimum 7500 from 12,000 Square F feet but that hasn't been enough the other option is um not allowing I can't say not allowing but putting in more attached housing um because we do allow for a minimum lot area of 5,000 square feet so those attached units can you can up to eight of them um we are seeing some of those new ones being built we have a lot of attached um product in the community this is definitely a a different alternative I would say than what we've seen thus far but um the other the only other way is the Met Council changing its requirements of what we can net out of our our development densities I've been a strong Advocate you know with for the on behalf of the city to the Met Council really trying to reconsider what they allow us to net out um that Parkland area will be able to net out Trails will be able to net out um but our internal roadways the park way we might be able to net out but the internal roadways storm ponds those sorts of things they just don't let us net out so maybe there'll be further conversation with them um but the options are limited it's um push them closer together is really one of our only options um second question is this we're where are things at with that alignment study of Headwaters so as the developer continues making progress where what's our timing on that sure I can let Ryan give us a a better update I do know in the fall we kind of got a late start with the Wetland lineations um he can give us a more detailed estimate on that timeline there's quite a few components to the study some of them we're actually going to be talking about this week with our staff um but our Wetland delineators are waiting till we can resume the Wetland work in the field and then after that's all completed we're probably a month behind that so middle May at the latest I would say somewhere in there okay thank you any other question comments yep I'll just make a general comment Mr Mayor and council members on planning the biggest struggle we had was in almost all of these neighborhoods the wetlands and yes we can get bigger Lots in all these neighborhoods but it would reduce the number of lots we can put in because of the we lands which means the cost is so exorbitant these developers can't build in there they won't buy them they won't do it so that's why we've gone to the smaller Lots or push the smaller Lots so they can get enough lots to make it more affordable mayor Roberts if I might just piggy back on um council member Miller's um comment there industry Trends we are seeing that a lot of especially firsttime home buyers don't want a big house and don't want a Big G we're also seeing people who have had big houses and big yards and want relatively low free maintenance this does offer that in a neighborhood setting which I think um can help create Greater Community when people still own still have their little bit of space have access to those green spaces aren't a slave to their yard speaking from experience I think more than anything um so I think that there's a um a desire for this and I think that it would be a nice product to bring to Forest Lake but I do understand the planning commission's concerns about driveway you know uh a larger garage has a larger driveway and if you're taking up half the lot for a driveway where's where people going to park right so and the developers heard this and knows this and I think we might be able to explore other options um for how we can kind of get creative and getting some of the getting some of those concerns reduced Mr gos was three miles that you showing on the screen are they on 50 foot lot or are they on the 65 foot lot uh the ones on the screen are a 50 foot lot and um you know anecdotal information at best but um I've developed in other states including Florida and um what usually ends up happening is is the lot gets smaller and I know I understand Minnesota I've been here for 4 years three years um but the smaller the lot the more creative the space ends up being um you know people really put more time and effort like ab's talking about into um the backyards and and trying to make some creative private space it still works and um 6300 Square F feet is that what we kind of thought generally in average what the smaller loss was going to be I think so something like that just under 65 and the I I believe if I'm not mistaken the uh ordinance is 7200 75 but the Pud was seven so it's not it's about 10% less than the Pud requirement there's a reason that places where things are very expensive Florida West Coast East Coast got smaller and smaller and why that's happening here are economics and um you know the ordinance that was written 20 years ago and those types of product we were doing 20 years ago don't we don't do it anymore you know um and Builders don't build it anymore they just can't the ones that du to attach Nationals for the most part um publicly owned from somewhere else um Capstone is locally owned fifth biggest builder in the Twin Cities um and they are private and they've been here they're out of ramsy um Ben minks as the owner does a great job um so this is a Minnesota company trying to compete and work in Minnesota so for what it's worth Mark Mr couple of quick comments as the Planning Commission discussed you know one of the issues is just driveway density I'll call it you know if you have a 50ft wide lot and you see a double garage here that driveway is going to be at least 20t wide if not 24 24 foot wide driveway and a 50 foot lot if you get two feet of snow that means now you have four feet of snow on your yard my rough math tells me right so um that becomes a problem you know plows go through and that's not a problem for us right but it's a problem for the neighbors to try to find a place for that snow um it gets that gets tough especially in the KAC that's even worse now um and that becomes a difficult thing for our folks when they're clearing cux it's a whole another operation um then just the other item here that I wanted to make sure everyone remembers is that puds are an exchange of relaxation of your code for a public benefit so there's that important part there that there's an exchange we want to get something for giving something and um the developers laid out a number of things including affordability of Housing and I those are um good things I I I think um it's my preference to push for a bit more of the public benefit um you mentioned the build out of the park um but as I understood it the contemplation was to use funds that already paid have already been paid and funds that are going to be paid in terms of the uh Park funds that are already required so not going above and beyond but we can discuss that more obviously is whether or not they' be going above and beyond right we're looking for a public benefit that goes beyond the requirements so it's not just utilizing the funds we were going to have to pay to build out a park we want to see additional Park funds or additional benefit to the public Beyond what's already required so again there's that change a relaxation for you know why should the public allow this these um standards to be relaxed so that's just an overarching theme I want to make sure we lose sight of so what what are the next steps go this goes back to planning and we some no the next steps um the developer will meet with the Parks Commission at their next meeting in April to talk specifically about the park plan we'll also bring up a couple of those ancillary items that we talked about the potential for a little bit more green space in south of the parkway also um even though it's preliminary what kind of public amenities might we be able to um achieve around the storm pting associated with jd4 we we don't know but things that we bring up then the developer goes and decides if they want to move forward with the development and starts to work on their preliminary plans for um resubmittal generally before preliminary plans are submitted to the city we have at least one application pre-application meeting with the developer to see if we're working in the same direction um we have a great working relationship with adwers Land Group it probably be more than one just so you know um to see that we can't get that that plan um closer to what works for every everybody when they submit for preliminary plat that goes to the Planning Commission who makes recommendation to the council we have to double check our code to see if that Parks Commission also makes recommendation on the preliminary plat then it comes back before you if the council approves the preliminary plot then they can move forward a final plot um what we have been doing in these phase developments is approving a preliminary for the entire um four phases and then they would just come back with plat as each of the kind of phased areas develop so you might remember that with Hidden Creek you've now seen three final plats come before you still got a small area left in Hidden Creek to Plat out as well so entire process um if you look at the preliminary plat process 60 to 120 days I think actually statutorily we might have 120 days um final plat another 60 days so we're you know six maybe a little bit more months out before things could get finalized kind of at the baby start of things but it's also kind of odd because we're just kind of carrying that Hidden Creek neighborhood through so Mr OBS ideally do you want to be in the ground before we freeze up next next fall on this I'm sorry ideally do you want to be in the ground on this project before things um we've already got the third phase pretty much twed up which is another 45 Lots past what's already out there so this would probably be a 26ish uh project so the way capstone's going through with momentum it'd be 26 when we be doing the concept plan um but I really lik the 120 days part that was that was awesome I will uh I will also say uh yeah you know I it's been a tough project for a variety of reasons we've had some really difficult years um both weatherwise and some soil conditions we didn't find I will say the staff in uh overall um to me the success is about agreeing to disagree and trying to figure out how to work through that and the communication even if I'm totally not on the same page as they are vice versa we seem to work through it and even though it's um so to me that's really the strength here I'm I'm a fan you know even if I want to pull my hair out once in a while at least it's still here it's just great no that that's great feedback and that is you know it's it's striking a balance it has to be a win-win and so we appreciate your interest continued interest in Forest Lake and your group and staff's efforts to try to move this thing forward so uh thank you for the time yeah when we come back I'll bring Capstone with me okay great thank you thank you thank you all right uh 7e request for proposals classification comp comprehension study uh Mark yeah Mr Mayor this is um kind of something we discussed a little bit at the it's born out of at least some of the Staffing discussion we had at the work session and um I've had a chance the last couple weeks here to review a few of the um documents and studies that were took place ahead of me in in the last couple of years here and um some of those contemplated this exact uh thing here which is to kind of have a reset on our um Staffing compensation and make sure that we're um up to Snuff with some of the U laws that are uh revolved around this issue and then just because the market has just been so volatile um over the last few years in terms of um salaries and and that kind of thing um it's very common most cities of your size will you know maybe every 10 years or so have this sort of reset where you just kind of check yourself against the market make sure people are property classified you know someone's job description might have been WR 10 years ago and you know over the morphing of the staff their duties change and we want to kind of make sure that we um reset those as well so this is a nice way to to do that um we'd send it out for proposals to a number of different firms and get um some some of those back and then kind of go from there so it's a it's a fairly simple and straightforward and I think most Consultants um in this realm know exactly what this is all about and um that's important uh I think in our negotiations with the unions they're all kind of looking forward to this too to make sure that we understand um whether we're above the above the um median in the in the area or below or where we're at with some of those some of it might be we above on some U job categories and Below on others and then I kind of want to bring this all back to along with this is to have the council um discuss as part of a strategic where you want to be in terms of of um pay and and compensation overall I think that's the other thing we want to make sure we're talking in terms of overall compensation not just salary but your benefits package and all that kind of thing um so we'll have a a discussion during our strategic planning um process as well about you know do we want to be right in the middle as a medium some cities will set they want to be at the 60% Mark they want to be at the 40% Mark they want to be somewhere um in between um they might set some parameters on certain things so that's a a discussion I think we want to have it all relates to retention and attraction of quality employees so um it's all very important important stuff I I do think this is something um that a consultant has best uh it really separates any staff members from it it keeps it a very thirdparty analysis and I think that is a big part of the this as well and so um as I understand it this is part of the budget as well that was contemplated 2025 so we're bringing that forward to have you authorize us to give for proposals for this um important study great thanks Council you have any questions on on this for no questions just a just a comment I mean I very supportive of this I know you know was we've worked over the last couple of years of you know tackling some of the things that need to be tackled one of them is staff and so getting this in place I think would be really important as we continue to make progress um on that Big Rock I agree retention is a good thing important yes absolutely uh anyone uh interested in making a motion on this I'll make a motion to authorize staff to send out requests for proposals to qualified firms for a classification and compensation study second second any discussion all in favor I I oppos motion carries thanks next item here would uh is a housing legislation uh resolution Mark are you going to lead this on this one too yeah Mr May and councel um this issue is is before us it was before you last year about this time as well um you know typically I'm I'm a type of person I I don't like to bring um legislation in front of the you know every piece of legislation does not need your Vote or anti vote right uh I don't think that the city council should be in the business of weighing in on every piece of legislation but this particular set of legislation and um I don't think I'm alone in this concern is just so overarching and so overbearing on cities um that it it does Merit your attention and I think your voice and um as he decided last year or this Council decided last year to um let the legislature know in know on certain terms that we oppose it I think it's again good to reate because the bills have again um rear their heads and um there's different forms of them this year they're trying different things but it's um all the same stuff in a different package and um it's very concerning we're talking about tonight we were talking about whether or not we should have duplexes or triplexes in a neighborhood that goes out the window you don't get that control anymore in a number of these bills that that decision is made for you and um by the way a lot of the bills the public to even have an input on that um or at least limit public input to one meeting or something so a number of these bills just are very concerning taking away things like parking restrictions um minimum lot sizes um all sorts of things that uh the authors think will solve the housing crisis and I think that's the biggest thing I want to impart to to you here as well is that um it's certainly my view and and the view of many others I believe that um not only is this legislation overreaching but it just won't solve the problem the problem exists on a number of different levels it's a multifaceted issue obviously uh but the things they're attacking are are really trying to squeeze blood out of a turnup that's already been squeezed a lot and I don't think that what they're doing here is going to solve any sort of housing crisis interest rates and cost of construction and all that kind of thing are much much more of an influence on that on that issue um certainly there are things here and there could be done differently but uh none of the issues that are being brought up here are really going to be any gamechanging U movement and what I really also find ironic is that what this is really going to do is incentivize developers to go around and look for the cheapest lot in town to tear down an affordable house and build three houses that are not affordable um you know you can imagine if if developers had free re to put a Triplex whatever in any old neighborhood they would go around town and find that negotiate with people who are living in you know um housing that is Affordable right they would find the cheapest house in town and say how about I buy out your house for $200,000 and a person thinks it's not a bad deal for me now there goes one of our affordable houses in town and incomes three $400,000 you know duplex Triplex whatever it is so it's very to build new housing without deep subsidies right and so building new housing to solve an affordable housing process isn't U isn't something I think is really viable what we need to be doing is lifting up people who have affordable housing and making sure that they can sustain that and there are programs for that I wish they would put their efforts into supporting those more so um that's enough of my soap box I think the last Council I think certainly understood it and I'd be open to questions from this as well question um correct me if I'm wrong but is this really have by pardon and support in a lot of cases it does and it's a very um strange bedfellows you know I mean um I think the left is is seeing it from a wanting to solve a I think everyone's trying to solve a housing crisis right um obviously often times the left is a bit more sympathetic to that cause I think the right here is hearing it from um Builders the former builders ass association with Twin Cities whatever they're called now um so there's some contractors and stuff that are aligned um maybe a little bit more with the right that are saying you know it's it's not our fault it's the cities that are standing our way with all these regulations and red tape and all that kind of stuff um so yeah there there is bipartison support here um I did mention this to both um representative Hill and representative Anderson when I was able to speak with them when our Dan Hill um they both gave me different responses and um you know I think they both understood the complexity of this and understood the importance of getting this right um but I do that is the bigger fear is that there is in know era where we have very polarized U legislature there is some support on both sides of the a for this so is there an ability of of the city to request if you will a town hall of our state representatives to come to speak to this to the public so that our our residents can you know share that feedback it's easy to say we'll just go ahead and email them or whatever A lot of times it just doesn't happen and I don't know if we would get a big contingent but this somehow need it seems like this is you're not hearing much of this in the media it's it's really pretty quiet and I don't know how we get that so that the general public specifically our residents know about this because this this is could affect this I mean this would be not good obviously and so I don't know how yeah I I you know we can certainly talk with our legislators about that obviously you know during a session it's very tough to get their time um but um you know maybe just some efforts to get more media attention certainly as well we could um try to do some of that is this likely to be this year I mean this this legislative session is is that that that's how fast this could be and there's not one bill it's a dozen bills all trying to attack it from a different angle and trying to find support there's only the only one I know that is sort of um I'll say on our side um and I don't even maybe I won't even characterize it that way but Senator gon who was the senator from uh the seneral in part South area um sort of I think heard herti cities that are in her district and a group of those uh Mayors and administrators got together and working with her and the league of Minnesota cities on sort of an alternative bill it still has some of the same elements um I think it's just a little bit softer approach and I don't I don't know the status of that bill at the moment but um I know that there are at least some legislators trying to introduce a little bit bit of an alternative so is it um overstepping to post this this letter what were you know this resolution on social media to be able to get that word out at all um if it's a if it's successfully voted by your Council here to basically contact your your State Rep you know if you're not happy or disagree or agree with it I guess um yeah certainly it passes I don't see an issue with that any other questions anyone interested in making a motion on this I'll make a motion for the resolution supporting the city of Forest Lakes retention of zoning Authority resolution number 03-242 five- 06 I'll second motion second any other initial discussion all in favor I I opposed motion carries thank you for your work on this you know staff's work on this okay so we're going to move into a discussion part of the meeting uh these are strictly discussion items no decision final decisions will be made this evening uh first item is uh golf cart and ATV ordinance and Captain hgraph is gonna walk us through this good evening uh Mr Mayor and council members uh at the February 18th uh Council Workshop a ordinance was presented to the council uh in regards to the um ATV UTV golf cart uh request by the citizens and when we looked at how the best way to kind of formulate and rework this um one of the things was is we needed to separate what an ATV and a UTV is what a golf cart is because they're two separate things one's regulated by State Statute the other one is not um so what was presented uh to you in your packet was two separate ordinances uh the ATV UTV was uh requested to a repealing replacing 71.0 6 and then also adding an additional ordinance for the golf carts themselves um I think it's going to be very beneficial to separate these two um ordinances specifically so it's easy for the public to understand it's easy for Staffing to understand how these things are going to operate where they can operate and what the limitations are for them um the registration of the golf carts will help the city as well as staff be able to understand that these golf carts have been looked at we can easily identify that they've already been looked at by Staffing that they meet the requirements that they can operate on these roadways um if we are out and about or staff is out and about and they see one that doesn't clearly show that it's been registered that's easy for us to enforce those um those um ordinances at that point so I our recommendation is if there's any further modifications or guidance from the council uh regarding the two ordinances that have been brought up um we would look to forward for final approval at the next council meeting any thought any thoughts or questions yeah after reading through them I thought they both looked right alignment with our discussions and I would have no recommendation relative to modifying it I agree yeah correct Kevin any any concerns or Y no I haven't seen anything different than what we talked about Mr Mayor just one quick note so because these were in draft form you know legal hasn't done a really down and dirty O review of them so if council is good with the ordinances presented the next steps would be to present them to Amanda so she can just give us a an overview of them make sure that we're in conformance and not opposing any state statutes we'd post the proposed ordinances on our website and then bring them forward for final approval well so no motion then obviously tonight uh I think got a consensus that we're in agree agree what changes here and separating them out so thank you for your work on that uh what do we then let's say at the next meeting these are approved uh because the question is when are when are people going to be legal I know it might be two different things Things based on UTV ATV versus a golf cart that needs to have that so what does that look like so once Council approves an ordinance we have to submit it to the newspaper for publication before it becomes effective um typically if Council approves an ordinance on Monday evening I'm able to get that published in the paper the following Thursday um so realistically our next council meeting is on April 14th um I think that would be April 17th would be that Thursday so the ordinances would be in effect that day and then folks could start their registration process um there's no registration required for the ATVs utvs um this ordinance is just going to provide some guidance for law enforcement and for residents is they out and about on the streets so that will be good to go effective the the 17th if Council approves as is on the 14th great thank you next discussion item uh planning intern code enforcement discussion Abby thank you mayor Roberts members of the council as some of you might know the city historically has relied on interns to help with seasonal code enforcement efforts um the first couple years I was here we just I was wasn't quite there but last year we did do that and um as much as our intern was great it's just isn't the greatest system for code enforcement essentially what we're trying to do is bring in seasonal lesser skilled staff emerging professionals giving them a great opportunity but to um administer kind of a complex program and it's really kind of creating an imbalance I would say of bringing somebody in training them up and then they're leaving um the Community Development Department has $20,000 dedicated annually for an intern and I wanted to chat with you tonight about your willingness to convert those dollars into a full-time or excuse me a part-time year round position 10 to 12 hours a week but a dedicated code enforcement officer for them essentially what we're trying to do is bring in seasonal lesser skilled staff emerging professionals giving them a great opportunity but to um administer kind of a complex program and it's really kind of creating an imbalance I would say of bringing somebody in training them up and then they're leaving um the community development department has $20,000 dedicated annually for an intern and I wanted to chat with you tonight about your willingness to convert those dollars into a full-time or excuse me a part-time year round position 10 to 12 hours a week but a dedicated code enforcement officer for the city the single point source uh right now code enforcement is predominantly administered by the city planner with support from the Community Development admin but I'm also significantly involved we have three staff trying to kind of run one program um and we're just seeing a rise in complaints in the last 10 years we've doubled the amount of complaints and but only added 20% more homes and as we're going to continue to increase our homes and our population I'm concerned that those complaints are just going to continue to increase so I wanted to bring this tonight to you to discuss your thoughts on the matter of whether or not um there's an interest appetite to move forward with at least creating a job description bringing something back before you um if not that's fine we'll head out in the intern world again um but I wanted to at least see what your thoughts were on this matter Council couple questions um that 10 to 12 hours a week what's your sense that what's that going to do for the Department in terms of being able to handle part of the workload I mean what how does that compare to the hours that are being dedicated currently from the three staff members sure so right now um there is probably 10 to 12 hours of work at least being done between the three of us and we're not getting to it all um the 10 to 12 hours honestly would not be enough it just would not be an increase in cost and being able to provide what I would say is generally the same level of service it would free up my time and Ken's time to be able to focus on land use matters and things like code amendments and those necessary things that really get back burner um land use applications can't get back bured right we have a statutory timeline those really take precedence and so then code enforcement gets back bured it's always just kind of that juggling Act of where do we put and unfortunately could enforcement end up kind of getting that backseat sometimes did that help answer your question no it it did um no for sure follow-up question you know you called out in the memo our staff report here in our packet that you know the 11th hour we pulled that staff person um yeah for a variety of reasons y um one of them was hey we just kind of put this new program in place let's see how it's going before we dedicate additional costs to it so I guess my question is how do you feel like the program is going as it's currently designed I think that it is going as good as it can without dedicated staff and I don't mean to say that because my conversation tonight is hey can we have dedicated staff but there's gaps right we might get a a request but we can't really get out within maybe sometimes 72 hours maybe a little bit longer dedicated staff you've got them in you know maybe they're in two days a week at five hours six hours each day or three days I'm not sure how that could necessarily work but there's a lot more consistency in the scheduling and the ability to just kind of stay on top of those right now it's really relying on Don the Community Development admin to kind of help develop and keep us on top of systems and if it's a one of those weeks where we are looking at three concept plans and two plats and a potential land sale it's it's going to wait till next week and so um we are we have in this last year developed a code enforcement system from start to finish um we were just finalizing with legal counsel all of the pending special assessments so if we have to go out and ask somebody to pay a fee or uh clean up a property we now have a system in place to recoup those fees so we're finally in this year have a system in place it would be great to have somebody to say this is yours now um I do think that in within the next six months we want to maybe look at whether or not there might be some minor modifications to our ordinances very minor to just make sure that we're we've got everything in place but I think that it's a well- constructed system that took us a little while to get those Kinks worked out the biggest Kinks that exist right now are just our ability to stay on top of it in a Time fashion I didn't you know crack a calculator out so the $20,000 isn't a lot of money nope is that it is comparable to I've looked at other um code enforcement officer positions through other agencies um it is a comparable hourly rate um it it would not be a benefited position um but so the idea would be maybe we can find a a retiree somebody that just wants to work parttime maybe we could still even find that college age student that wants a part-time job those are some of the options that I think we might be able to find and I might be looking for a needle in a hay stack um but I thought this is a conversation I'd like to have to see if we can at least just start if it turns out in three weeks six weeks we can't find somebody then I think we kind of go back to maybe we you know look at how else we can augment existing Services however else so just final question you know this um internship program was obviously set up some time ago predates me what are we losing by not having that intern I mean they haven't always been dedicated to code enforcement have they no they would also do some special projects of sorts you know if we've got an ordinance to work on or some special research um not that I don't want to be able to be an organization that provides for those education opportunities I think that there's uh quite a bit of validity to to doing that and assisting um younger people in their career growth in that way I think right now we're not well set up for it just frankly as you guys just heard you know Staffing we've kind of been on that lower end we're taking a lot of time to usually get them trained up and then you know they then they're gone and that's that's internships I think if we're going to provide an internship though I'd like to provide a much more meaningful experience where they're working on something that's a dedicated project maybe they' do a little enforcement or some zoning code review or fence permitting or something so they have a little bit of taste to things um but I'd like to be able to offer that in a better fashion than we're doing right now than just doing enforcement efforts okay thank you yep any other questions or thoughts I so I I think it's a great idea um and it really I suspect when we get to budget time here that we will be this will this position full-time Position will be back on you know on the discussion and this good opportunity to stair step into that by having this part-time uh I don't know if there are other cities that have a part-time person that we could reach out if maybe that person's interested in being full-time and splitting that you know if we're having a hard time finding just someone that only wants to do x amount of hours they maybe they want more but I think it's a great way to to again stair step into what we likely will be doing and and quite honestly do need I guess I mean right now as a reminder we we only do reactionary enforcement right we're not going out and but I it's important and the case load of the ones I think I mentioned we were able to close out 80 85% of our cases a good mitt full maybe a little bit more of last year's code enforement cases are ones that have been lingering for years and probably will and I think having that one person and then also support from the planner from me as they need um having that one point part person and point of contact can really help potentially move things along quicker than we can right now so so I hear I see a quite I see all heads nodding and it looks sounds like most of you are in support with it at least me moving forward with the job description and working with with Mark on kind of that process for getting it back in front of you before we post okay awesome thank you very much great idea on that right so that uh and well so we have ends our our agenda items we have staff updates uh Jolene we'll start with you no updates see Abby um the only update I have is you should have seen an email from me that we set a joint work session um Monday April 7th with the Eda I think I said time to be T 6:30 I don't 6:30 thank you um I took a couple days off last week and my brain wasn't quite remembering right so just as that reminder uh agendas and packets will come out the week before so let me know if there's anything you want to touch on at that meeting Dave uh just one quick update all the permits have came in for Lakeside Park uh contractor depending on on weather will start next week figure two to three weeks to regrade and get the Rocks reset and then weather dependent on getting the S and and black to in but at least the uh Shoreland will start getting looking like it used to be fairly soon great thank you Chief Peterson yeah May and City Council Members I just want to thank you for um approving the hiring of the two police officers uh tonight we're really excited to get them on board and also I uh just want to give you an update uh we did the initial interviews for the community service officer position and we uh dwindled that down to three very strong candidates and we'll be uh um contacting them and going um going from there hopefully uh can get that position hired in the very new uh near future and that's all I have for you thanks uh Chief Newman mayor members of council you have one update burn restrictions when into effect today they'll typically run about a month or until Greenup is so it's really uh rain dependent uh burning restrictions are set by the Minnesota DNR and followed by all municipalities and if residents want to check to see if burning restrictions are in effect then go to the Minnesota DNR website and look under burn restrictions are updated daily any questions great thanks thanks uh Ryan mayor city council no updates tonight Amanda anything else tonight no thanks start this any Council Council updates um the only thing I would say is I got to go to my first uh school board meeting last uh this last week and it was very informative and I plan on getting tomor so I'll keep you up to date on that and I also got a tour of our airport in in-depth tour a little bit so I can be a little bit more educated when it comes to discussions coming up great great Hannah anything attended the Parks and Recreation Committee of first meeting and uh so as mentioned folks were sworn in and they got an in-depth um just conversation from Kyle and day of discussing their roles on the commission so it was really good positive and optimistic so I look forward to the next one great Jeff anything um last Thursday I met uh for the first time with the fire board um Chief Newman just went over uh an overview of calls for service that we've had between Forest Lake in Columbus and just a review of uh operations which was very informative thank you Chief no updates tonight uh I really don't have much other than I attended both the the park commission and the fireboard so thank you for that uh Chief and excited to have the the park commission back back up and running and Dave and Kyle did a great job of walking them through and educating them on how a commission Works uh so thank you for for that with that uh wonder if anyone's interested to make a motion to go into Clos session I I'll move um to close the meeting pursuant to Minnesota statute 13d 03 for labor negotiation strategy the close session will be held in the forest lake conference room and will commence immediately once the clst session is completed the city council will reconvene the open meeting portion in council chambers once back in session the council will adjourn the regularly scheduled council meeting all right is there a second second any discussion all in favor hi opposed we are in closed session I will note this is just a bit of a change in the past we have left left the video feed running when we do go into Clos session uh we are not going to do that this evening we strictly come back after close session to come back and adjourn this meeting so there's no other business in front of the council thank you [Music]