[Music] a little bit past 6:30 so I'll call tonight's Workshop to order and Jolene could we have a roll call please oh sure give me a moment here um council member Ericson here council member husnik here council member valento here council member Roberts here mayor Bean here I'd like to invite everyone to rise and join us for the Pledge of Allegiance United States of America stand indivisible andice first item on our agenda this evening is open Forum open forum is any interested parties opportunity to address Council on any topic of your choosing is there anybody signed up for open Forum this evening I'm seeing head shaking no and then is there anybody online for open forum and if you're online and would like to speak if you could raise your hand um or flag so that you could be unmuted is there anybody online nobody online there's two observers but no one requesting to speak very good we will bring um our tonight's agenda back to council um we are in a workshop session Tonight Tonight is a working session of council you will find us far more informal than we would be in a typical um Regular meeting um and anything that we discussed tonight that requires official action will be come back before Council on a regular agenda so with that we um happy to um start off tonight with um an update from Lake Center and youth and families Christina any opening comments yeah uh mayor and Council we just want to welcome Linda Matson here in her new role as community outreach coordinator for Lake Center for Youth and families included in your packet was the annual report from last year as well as a presentation we aren't planning to pull it up tonight but we invited Linda to come and give you a verbal update on um what's been happening so with that I'll turn it over to her thank welcome thank you well good evening mayor and council members and City staff um um as was mentioned the annual report and the participation and demographic data is in your packet I am not going to go through that um I'll mention a few things from there but as you look at that if you have questions um tonight I'm happy to answer them or get the answers for you or if you look at it later and decide that you um have some questions or want something explained I am happy to do so so feel free to contact me or ask this evening first of all I want to um thank the city council for um considering last year and executing a five-year commitment to Lake Center um it was very important to us to try to stabilize our budget budget um every year it feels like especially in nonprofits you kind of start over um with grants with going to municipalities Etc so your actions last year um were very much appreciated um and as I've gone to the municipality meetings last year reminding people of when um an increase had been um given and most of the time it was 2010 and so it had been a long time not only for Forest Lake but for other municipalities as well as the count shago County and Washington County as well so um I just want to make sure that I thank you for that and that it is so appreciated and it really helps us um in our planning I do want to um also mention that Chief Peterson um has just finished his second year um as the board chair um in March and has done a wonderful job of leading the organization prior to that he was the chairel um I I think for four years and um and those were some difficult times actually as you think about all the different things that have happened including um covid and so um just want to thank him for his leadership and his work um also superintendent Steve Massie who is here tonight um is a board member on Lake Center as well well as I go around to um to municipalities I always start with the story of how Lake Center got started and you probably all know it but I'm going to tell it anyway and I'm going to tell it because it involves um Jim Trudeau who was the force Lake Police Chief and then later was the Washington County sheriff and in 1976 he realized that youth sometimes um have um do things that they shouldn't do or they really need to think about but should we ignore them or should we send them to court and his think was there should be some middle ground that they can talk that through with their parents and then some decisions are made if they take classes if they write an apology letter Etc and if they do that successfully then they don't go to court but hopefully have learned some lessons um I think we have been successful in um helping people understand that Lake Center is not a place for the bad kids to go um it is a place for kids that need to talk along with their parents and I would invite all of us to think back on our Junior High and high school years and to think about is there anything that we might have done if we had been caught that we would have ended up um in that Intervention Program and I think we can all probably say yes and so it is a great way um to help kids and their families um move ahead in a positive way um I'm going to jump to 2019 to the present and we have done a lot of work um updating handbooks um working on policies working on procedures we've done a lot with technology upgrades and we hear about all the technology issues that many businesses are facing and we are um in that group as well um so we have done many things to um make sure that the data that we handle is protected um during the pandemic um that was difficult um for many organiz ations including ours um we received two PPP loans that were forgiven and I will say that um I'm not sure Lake Center would have survived without those two loans so we are very thankful for those another thing that we learned during the pandemic is or we had to move to Virtual services so counseling became virtual intervention um that I talked about became virtual and enrichment did as well enrichment has gone back to inperson and I'll talk about these in a a little more detail intervention um the Intervention Program um we have um contracts with Chisago County and with Washington County and the Forest Lake Police Department can refer directly to us and now the Wyoming Police Department can as well um and so we had to do this work virtually when we were able to go back into in person people said we really like the virtual option so 95% of our intervention work is done virtually um if if families want to come in we certainly will meet them in person um but that's what they're deciding to do and also with counseling many people want to stick with um virtual counseling just because of Transportation of you know their schedules um Etc so we offer um counseling um virtually in office and also we have an inter agency agreement with the force Lake School system which we have had for years um with that we had you probably most of you were familiar where our offices were in um the old Bakery in the Town Square building and we had a lot of space and it was filled before covid and then there were probably three of us that came in quite regularly and we each could have had about four offices ourselves and so we looked at that over a couple of years and decided where do we want um assets do we want them in a building that really isn't full or do we want to sell it and then have th that money um in the bank and so we decided to sell um fortunately we um listed it um had an offer for the asking price in 5 days um and we're able to sell it and we are now at the CLC the central Learning Center um through the work of Dr Massie having that space that was open and we're leasing that space the main office space um at the CLC or the old Central Junior High so we're happy with um with that move and I think it was a good Financial move and business move for us um just as a review our Revenue sources our grants insurance reimbursement as I've mentioned County contracts municipality agreements um events I will mention that taste is coming up in April uh charitable gaming um and then individual and business donations um we are working to keep salaries and benefits um at the right level to attract and retain staff like almost everyone is um and hoping and we work to stay engaged in the community and adjust our programming um as I've said intervention has been with us since 1976 and continues but the other programming changes based on what the needs are in the community um I will just briefly talk about the numbers that we have had in 2023 um enrichment so there is a youth F first program that's part of a grant that is at Four elementary schools in Chisago County after school free programming and um we also have safety Camp that's in Forest Lake in conjunction with the Forest Lake Police Department and other community um members last year we had5 clients for 673 sessions so that was all of these numbers are up from 2022 intervention um we had 189 clients for 388 sessions at Lynwood Elementary we have a prevention Intervention Program we have a full-time staff member there through a grant that we've had now two sessions of it for four years she goes in and works with kids kindergarten through sixth grade um and where there might be um potential um conflicts so to speak so in the lunchroom on the B us um that sort of thing and then in certain classrooms where she's directed either by the principal or the counselor um and she does a wonderful job there and has impacted um or has worked with 252 Lynwood elementary students last year and I will say that we reapplied for that Grant it was very competitive um and we had two twoyear $775,000 grants and this year we were awarded 150,000 for two years so we're thrilled um with that and then counseling we had 214 clients for 2,878 sessions our youngest client is three and our oldest clients are in their 80s um we also have um we also do not turn anyone away um for counseling if people cannot afford that so we um designate about 20,000 in our budget to help those that can't afford it or can't make the full payment um and that impacted 29 clients last year for 257 sessions so a few numbers just to give you a sense of the impact that we have and it's the force Lake School System it's shago County it's Washington County it's part of in NOA um but it expands as you look at that data because of the virtual aspect so you know we can be talking you'll see some um as you look at that you might say well you know why are they coming from Taylor's Falls or s cloud or whatever well it's mainly because um virtually we we're able to serve people with that I will ask if there are any questions that you may have or anything you want me to expand on Council any questions that you may have any questions I don't think we have any questions we appreciate the update always great always great to hear um and you know I know we're now in a fiveyear cycle but M um I you know as Council talked about our relationship and our contract with Lake Center um you know we recognize that we want to do our part to make you successful and if moving to five years and we've done some cost escalators as part of that I think um you know council's happy to support that and um just you know it's great to hear the update and again whatever we can do to kind of help provide some long-term stability I think we're more than happy to do so we appreciate the update all right thank you thank you thanks for all your hard work much appreci yeah much appreciated thank you our next item this evening um is an update on the school resource officer and uh Chief Peterson I think you're walking us through this yeah mayor and City Council Members good evening what I have you for you tonight is a discussion regarding our current school resource officer agreement between the city of force Lake on behalf of the police department and the Forest Lake uh School District as you know we currently have three uh three-year agreement with the school district uh it's 2020 I'm sorry 2022 to 2025 and uh with that agreement we have three police officers that are assigned as school resource officer officers to the Forest Lake uh schools one officer is assigned to the Middle School uh another officer is assigned to the community school and then the uh third officer is assigned to Forest Lake uh Area High School the two school resource officers that are assigned to the middle school and the community school are assigned there during the school year which is the nine months um approximately September until uh June the one school res resource officer who is assigned to the Forest Lake Area High School is their 12 months out of the year uh during the school year but also during the summer months so they could um assist with uh summer school and also um planning uh for security plans and those types of things throughout the throughout the year um the city of forest lake and uh the school district have had a very positive relationship over the years uh the first sro's that I can find the contracts uh with the school district go back to 1994 so quite a few years that we've had SRO in the schools uh at the end of February uh superintendent Dr Steve Massie who's here with us uh requested to meet with Christine and I to discuss the current school resource officer agreement and potentially um uh looking at how it is set up and uh more specifically um having the two school resource officers that are assigned uh during the school year and then also the third one who is assigned all year round um there's been some um funding uh concerns and things like that just like everywhere in the school district is uh no exception and they were looking at uh different areas um to uh help with cost savings uh we were looking at one of those options was to uh move that full year 12-month school resource officer to a 9month instead of the 12 uh month uh this in turn uh would have some cost savings for the school and uh I talk to um Kevin he looked at those numbers and if it was reduced to 9month uh position uh it would reduce the district's cost by approximately $30,000 and then the city would have to absorb that um you know we we want to help out in any way we can uh the school district we have such a great positive relationship uh between both entities and um I looked at this uh option and I feel it can be done uh those two I'm sorry yeah the two right now SRO who um are back on the street helping out with Patrol during the summer months and that's how we would utilize that uh third SRO as well um so my recommendation staff recommendation uh if this is decided upon would be to use uh Public Safety Aid funding to assist with that cost this year and then um possibly increase uh the tax Lev for 2025 and going forward and Dr Massie is here in attendance to answer any questions uh or any clarification that you might need thank you Chief Council open it up any questions you may have concerns Chief if you mention mention timing um I I missed it is what what is the expected is it expected for this summer 2024 so effective essentially as soon as we can put a contract in place is that the plan yes okay question I had is just um moving that uh 12mth SRO to a 9month I mean obviously they played an important role during those three months at the high school what kind of a gap is that going to create just from a safety side uh standpoint and planning and the things that they did did in that capacity well from what I understand a lot of the um safety and um security plans have been put in place recently so those types of things wouldn't need to be worked on and uh summer school I don't know how many you have an attendance usually every year um the second about 200 about 200 and we could assist um by taking those calls for service if they uh come from the schools um from our regular Patrol Chief is there a um so I'm just thinking about timing of this and our just our current Staffing situation um also I'm think about summertime and there's always a lot of I think the vacation load is higher in the summer is it are you factoring in savings of um overtime in this number or is this kind of a straight number of dollars that have dollars that would need to be replaced um that was not factored in but it was um it is looking at the what we get currently reimbursed from the school district um but yes uh there could be cost savings on our end in regards to um the overtime and vacation training those types of things yeah I don't need an exact number but would you expect that that be part of it would be some reduced overtime that reduce that a bit okay I don't think it's going to be substantial but it could definitely be a few thousand dollars um and then is there a thought longer term is this a I know it's hard to predict into the future is this a um a stop gap for a number of years or would we expect that this be kind of the going forward model for the foreseeable future is there any thought on what that looks like um the agreement does go through the uh 2024 2025 school year so we would definitely uh sit down and uh uh discuss going forward what that might look look like with Dr mancy one of my concerns um there's just not a lot of extra police officers um in today's world and so one of my concerns is if we wanted to go back to that model just the heads up that that may take some Advanced time um of you know yes we're in a situation right now where we can absorb another officer um on the street um yes there's some Financial impact but I think we're all you know would look around and say there's certainly clearly a need for us to have an extra office offer available um so in some ways that timing is um in the short term fortuitous for us but if you wanted to go back to that model where that officer is leaving the street um you know that potentially could be um a little harder to tackle to reverse out so just um I think there probably just some heads up and some Advanced planning that that might take um I feel like we are going to get three months Beyond this and we will absorb very quickly and we will forget that that it it I think we will just find that that extra officer is going to be very utilized and it'll be just um hard to imagine what things were like without that extra officer that was available um I don't know other feedback for or questions from Council just a couple thoughts that obviously this was set up for a reason there was a need for someone at the high school 12 months out of the year so it's it's unfortunate that that that has to go away but I understand the funding thing but you know any efforts that the city can or Police Department to have some you know extra Patrol or be close to the the high school during those because there's a lot of activities all summer along there so I think that would be important just the general public safety of the students and activities going on at the high school that can still be a priority yep definitely mean I would certainly support I know we're not making a taking a vote tonight but I'd definitely be in support of making the change yeah I would too any concerns on going forward or any additional information you'd like either Chief or Dr Massie to bring back I I I think it's just I think my only concern is um you know if we wanted to go back to 12 month coverage it is just having the the time frame and the timeline to do that to make that adjustment again just because those resources have been just really hard challenging to recruit hard to staff and um we have you know we don't end up with a lot of extra officers so um just thinking about that going forward but again that's not the ask today and certainly we I think very easily will be able to absorb um another another officer that's available especially over the summer months so Dr Massie any other comments or thoughts you want us to think about May Council I actually got like five pages of notes but you've covered all my topics I certainly can answer any questions if I could take just one moment though and reiterate what Chief Peterson shared the model that we have with our sro's is replicated throughout the state I don't know how many calls Chief you get during the year I get a number of calls from my colleagues across the state wondering how we've established since 1994 such a positive relation relationship often times SRO are a cop in the corner and that's the best you get in some districts in our case our SRO are based on a relationship first connection with kids certainly school security and we all understand how critically important that is today but just to illustrate the relationship that our SRO have with our students and our staff you may not be aware Chief maybe you're not aware but um officer olad will be our commencement speaker this year wow um and kids nominate those people so again through those relationships uh connections happen um kids have a resource somebody they can go to and oftentimes kids are going to our SRO not because of a legal matter or a criminal matter but they just need support so they play many many functions and many roles and I understand the concern of going from 12 months to nine months um but our summer school enrollment is down a bit our enrollment overall is down a bit uh we have far fewer incidents and not that we have a lot throughout the year but we just don't see a lot of incidents during summer school and the ability to lean on patrol officers if we do um I think will be certainly sufficient good thank you we appreciate the partnership for sure thank you Council anything anything further other questions Chief anything else for us on this topic nope I will uh work with uh Christina and and um City attorney um in regards to coming forward at a future city council meeting and probably bringing forward a resolution as we're pulling that forward just one thing that comes to mind just being very specific about um the alignment of this funding and the the funds that are available through the state for the um law enfor M um the Public Public Safety funding just making sure that we're clear on here's the provision and the um in the the the funding regulations and how we're using it just making sure that that's all aligned um okay so we'll do so what I heard mayor was um and I was thinking about it it's maybe a the um resolution or contract Amendment whatever would say any shortfall in wages for the police related to this would come from there because you're saying maybe we wouldn't have as much overtime so it may be less than this 29 ,000 is that kind of what you're getting at well a little bit that and also just want to make sure that it's clearly covered that that what we're approving is clearly eligible for funding under yeah sure so gotta and just making that part of the resolution just that clear that we um have both the expense but then also how that's being funded so all right I think um we can move on to our next agenda item which is is um consideration of the Parks Commission ordinance and Abby I understand that um so you're um we did open Forum at the beginning of the meeting but I am happy to take some additional public comment if you'd like to provide I is that the raised hand go ahead Terry and if you'd like you're welcome to give comment now also if you we've been more informal in our Workshop sessions and so if you want to provide some comment after our discussion as well okay thank you that's why I put it down for doing it now instead of at the open Forum in the beginning so for those of you who don't know me I'm Terry steam block I'm at 568 Southshore Drive and I was the former um commissioner of the parks trails and lakes commission and so I wanted to speak on behalf of what you'll be talking about this evening so as as the April 15th 2024 Memo from Abby Whitman addressed to Mayor Bane States the city lost more than a quorum of former Commissioners 18 months ago the memo states that while it's likely there was a number of contributing factors it's clear the previous system was not working for our citizen volunteers her Memo goes on to talk about clearly defined roles and responsibilities for the commission and City staff to help create a better framework for this service area shortly after the commission resigned you all Revisited the park ordinance and made changes to it without any citizen or commission input the fact that staff is wanting to look at it again reinforces the idea that the ordinance changes may have been premature not well thought through and did not incorporate the feedback of a citizen commission um I would like to go on record and read to you my resignation from The Parks Commission so that's it's very clear as to why I resigned um I have also added a few contributing or um additional statements to it because it's been so long since I have resigned um so I'll Point those out to you as well but while it's not appropriate for me to read the resignations of the other commission members I can tell you that there was some consistency in our reason for resigning so what I while I'm only sharing my resignation again there was some consistency from the other members I am hoping that by reading my resignation it will once and and for all be clear as to why the resignation occurred and there won't be any rumors or speculation and my greatest hope is that it helps you recognize that what you are doing tonight feeds into some of the core issues that the commission had tonight Council has a memo that uh before you has a staff memo on the future of Parks and Recreation Commission and while there has been no Community involvement once again you are discussing it you have an opport opportunity to learn from your past mistakes and I hope after hearing why I resigned you take pause of this work with that let me read you the resignation that I submitted in October of 2022 to Mayor Bane good afternoon it is with mixed emotions that I asked you to accept this email as my resignation from the parks trails and lakes commission it has become abundantly clear that this commission is not needed over the course of the last year I have watched as the meeting that were once interactive and an opportunity for the commission to weigh in and feel like we were adding value have disappeared these meetings have now turned into staff updates and a constant reminder that we do not have a budget nor do we have a voice um as I've reflected back over the course of the past couple of years I've identified several things that I feel have changed and not only make it evident a commission is not needed but they put the commission at risk and put us in a bad position we started with the use of the covid funds for the purchase SLB building of the clubhouse that initial decision to purchase that building using covid funds was made in a silo without commission input after the decision was made behind the scenes while we remained relatively silent on that decision the community did not our city manager had to know he was skating a fine line and perhaps that's why we weren't consulted what makes this even worse is that here we sit again a year and a half later with an unfinished Clubhouse and no plan that has been shared with the commission as to what and when it will be finished and no conversations about the interior and whether there will be opportunities for other Park related activities depending upon how the interior are designed again this is my resignation from October of 2022 we've talked time and time again about the communication and transparency we asked for a position to assist with communication and perhaps technology enhancements there was eventually funds that were provided but then that position was vacated and there was no backfill yet we see in the budget plans the request for more Park maintenance and a park superintendent Beyond this commission the failure of the city to have a holistic communication strategy Community engagement and transparency is beyond disappointing we have decisions on the original plans of belts and we are waiting for an update only to be told by the community members it was on the council agenda without any conversations with the commission first what was so urgent that pushed this to the council meeting before providing us with an update and an opportunity to chime in in addition there were some specific things the commission articulated on several occasions and then to have the plan come back with these things Incorporated in a way that goes against what the commission decided with no explanation was disappointing to say the least asking us to B blindly approve Park dedication fees as we all understood there had been changes in the process and again at that time there were some changes and we understood those changes we were told last week that giving us the estimated budget amount could impact the city's ability to negotiate with a builder if that's the case perhaps the requests are coming before us prematurely it makes me UNC comfortable approving something that we have no knowledge of estimated dollar amounts and no followup after actual dollar amounts are received to know what the actual Revenue was especially when the new policy provides the ability for the city to use the fair market value or other relevant data it makes me it makes it even more concerning after hearing Abby say at the October 18th meeting that we typically have a maintenance budget but due to outstanding contract Clauses that cost the city more than anticipated where traditionally there is a maintenance budget available there is not one when asked by commissioner Miller wasn't there a maintenance item in the park budget and to have Abby say yes there is but it's been uniquely used and they are reviewing how we keep using it in the future those kinds of statements cause heartburn as to what is happening with the budget and again blindly approving things is not fiscally prudent of this Commission we had a resident that came forward as part of the open Forum early in the spring reporting an issue where he had asked for bushes to be trimmed and unfortunately maintenance completely removed those with no communication the resident now has people cutting across his front lawn on foot and bike we had a discussion as a commission and asked for replacement and there had been no action we again made a motion that resulted in no action we asked again at the last meeting and we were told something would happen by fall we asked again at the October 18th 2022 meeting and we were told we are an advisory committee and we can make a recommendation but it's up to councel and that this item was not moved to council we recognized that we were an advisory committee but who chooses not to move things forward to councel staff intentionally made that decision when it should have been moved forward to council if we can't do anything to consider the feedback and the voice of our community members then open Forum should have been eliminated from these meetings as I said during the meeting if that's the case perhaps we should tell people this is when they come tell people when they come to our meetings that they should just be redirected to city council the entire commission took a list of parks and reviewed them for maintenance and other issues to hear this is being incorporated into a 10-year plan is ridiculous some of this was simple maintenance that shouldn't need to be incorporated into a 10-year plan especially when there was specific budget dedicated to maintenance for Parks the maintenance of some of our Parks is atrocious and shouldn't need a 10-year plan to make it happen for the your boat club contract we were told the city is just going to have the contract extended for another year without any conversations with us ahead of time at the meeting we were told the city doesn't want to get into certain conversations at this point this is just another example of not at least taking the commission along as part of the journey by having some of these conversations about agreements and such in a public meeting and providing us with an opportunity to at least understand what is happening if nothing else and the community itself deserves that as well it is abundantly clear the work of this commission is just a formality that adds an investment in volunteer time and City staff that isn't necessary just to have a updates there have been very limited opportunities to bring us along in the process and leverage our passion for giving back our knowledge and our skills for more than just party planning I strongly encourage you to eliminate the commission and save the staff the work of preparing for a meeting and the false hope of volunteers who think they can make a difference being on a commission that has no budget with exception to the $50,000 we were given when other Park maintenance budgets were added and no voice again as Abby stated in October she reminded us that we are just an advisory body and the matter has not been brought forward to the commission we recognize we were an advisory committee and that things need to go to council but again why is Staff preventing our recommendations from moving to council you can bring the commission back once you've decided to appropriately fund this important work and listen to the volunteer commission members that was my resignation letter I will close by saying what you are doing tonight further supports why some of us resigned City staff is wanting to revamp Park and Recreations without any Community involvement and input your former commission that resigned has offered to provide input and meet with you on several occasions to provide feedback as to why we resigned and what may be beneficial for future commissions but nobody has taken us up on that offer you revamp the ordinance once already without any commission feedback and now you want to consider bringing it back again we um what we but what we can use to help design what the future of Parks and Recreation looks like is a recommendation to the city council before having this conversation you could bring the commission back you could create a new commission you could be very clear with them that your duties and responsibilities are outlined in the ordinance which was clear to us which we understood that there is no budget at this time but we can commission use your help to help us design what the future of Parks and Recreation looks like and help us make a recommendation to the city council before having this conversation I think it's a complete failure on your part to have this conversation about the future of Parks and Recreation without any Community involvement or a volunteer commission and with that I will sit back down thank you Abby do you want to get get started I think you've got an outline for us to talk about tonight sure thank you mayor Bay members of the council I just um want to thank you first for tabling this conversation from last week when I think all of us were were tired um I you've seen the staff memo the presentation that I started last week was included in your packet as well um some so um could you please go to home Y and then um View and then drag clerk to all um so my presentation was in the packet for you uh as kind of a get to your mind thinking a little bit about um this discussion topic I will just note for the record staff is not looking for major changes what I'm looking for at the council's direction you asked us to seat a new park and Parks and Recreation Commission to just make sure that we have properly aligned roles for those new volunteer members um this this is a policy based discussion we seek direction from the council and it's up to you to decide where we going of go from here um I uh I took out all of the history stuff just wanted to just highlight the ordinance that's in effect just as a reminder the ordinance was brought before you under different Administration yes that was me but that was definitely a team approach between legal and our former administrator Patrick Casey and myself to bring this forward to memorialize what are the activities that are occurring currently in the community um and to try to write that into ordinance so the commission Duties are outlined in here um their advisory and assisting and staff as I knowe in my staff memo there is um areas of this that feel problematic specifically when it comes around events because there are a number of changes that have kind of happened in the community with the increase of privately organized events and specifically trying to understand the role this commission would play in those privately organized events within the community um I don't know if you want me to go through these but I'm just kind of giving these high level staff duties in the ordinance were outlined as this division between Community Development which encompasses Parks programming and public works really separating those duties between that kind of programming and um operations and then the actual maintenance and development of the um system commission management I included in here for reference of how some of our peer communities are actually managing their Parks systems as a whole who's doing that work in the city staff level and guiding these commissions we have kind of that two Department role right now it's slightly uncommon um as communities get larger and similar in size to us they either have Standalone departments or departments that are kind of housed more in a public works facilities world so I kind of reframed the um presentation from the last time just same questions but uh really starting to understand that policy discussion of structures so one of the things that I identified in um my staff memo is um the or ordinance outlines a seven member commission uh two of those seats being reserved for members one each from flaw and one from the Force Lake Area School District we have heard from our partner organizations that those two specific positions or um volunteer positions would be a little bit more challenging uh to fill on a three-year term just having a specific person from the school district that would be in on the board for three years um one thing that staff is asking the council to consider is those be ex official members that they would still be welcomed to come to our meetings still participate in our discussions but the actual commission um does the work the other would be whether or not you'd Envision a single Park system you know managed by a single division in the future and then whether or not that would Encompass the senior center I will say um many and I don't recall what I said at quarter to 10 last week a lot of these um convers question are really to get this body thinking about the long-term policy for this division you have a staffing study that says don't do anything right now until you figure out Parks um but you've asked us to seat a new commission and we're trying to move forward and really the goal more than anything out of tonight is to make sure that the ordinance that we have is appropriately aligned so that when we're onboarding future volunteers we can at least give them the best um experience in understanding what their role is in this organization as we probably will adapt and change over time so I don't know mayor ban if you want to kind of go through these conversations you want me to or questions you want me to kind of run through them all and then have you folks just open it up for discussion what would you prefer I think that's helpful I think um there's a lot of different topics here and so maybe dialing in on some of the more specific questions um helps to kind of tease out some initial information and then I think we can open it up um this is and I think maybe we need to preface this with this is very much a chicken and egg conversation what's going to happen first and what's going to happen next and how is that perfectly aligned um there are some things that have already happened that we can't undo we we can't undo that we had a commission of core me a quorum of commission members that have um resigned we can't undo that we did recognize there was some immediate challenges with that um in place Park ordinance that we had and when we passed that Park ordinance we passed it knowing that and we even called it kind of the bridge to what's next and um knowing that that was a temporary ordinance I think one of the awkward questions on the table right now is do we have to change that before we take our next step and um we can get some feedback on that tonight but there are a lot of moving pieces and um I don't think that there's anyone up here that doesn't want additional Community format feedback which is why we are um you know wanting to get this board reated um and also get started with some um kind of tactical things to work on that also allows to kind of help shape what should that structure be and so I think it is perfectly fine if some of these questions and this is kind of my intruction comment to this conversation if some of these answers are we don't know I think that's probably the best answer that we can give and that is perfectly fine because we also have a lot of really smart people in this room and as smart people in our community that we will figure it out and we don't need all answers to be on the table before we just get started From my perspective so um maybe let's walk through the detailed questions and kind of just leave room for where there's area that Council has some strong opinions that certainly get that out there and if there's other areas where we're a little like maybe that's not the issue tonight or maybe that's not as big of a concern I would just put it out there that's also okay so sure I not a problem so moving on from kind of structure City sponsored events and programming we started this conversation a little bit last week and I think it just started to uh we it was hard to focus um would the parks and with the council like the new Parks and recre Recreation Commission to continue to plan and execute events so right now we've got Spring Fling arts in the park and Hometown holiday I think we could also throw the corn feed in there which happens to be on one of our arts in the park nights um you know do you want to see them add more do you want them to take do you want that less from this commission and then um do you want to see an increase at all in City developed and or sponsored programming so movies in the park sum are playday some of those other things that some other um kind of more the recreation component programming components um that you sometimes see in some Municipal departments and then lastly uh privately organized events with the city council like the commission to review some or all public or private events so this is really where there's um gray area in the existing ordinance when it comes to events so going back to those commission duties if you don't mind me really quickly um that quality and variety of special public events and partnered Recreation programs and then when you look at staff duties uh plan and execute special events for the city and coordinate applications for privately organized special events the current ordinance really does um doesn't necessarily distinguish some of those publicly organized and sponsored events versus the privately organized sponsored events as you've heard we have about 35 public events that are happening not you know less than a handful are actually happening um are sponsored and organized by the city but what role this new commission would help play in reviewing those facilitating those planning those executing those those sorts of things are questions that I'd ask you to consider um and I know the council last week had asked for some examples so we did go through here private events on public lands so something as simple as a wedding or a family reunion public events on private lands we have autumnwood Farms the LA Temple Remax black Party public events in our Parks Trails or open space the 4th of July the twin city power bolt races ragner races then we have other public events on other public or public events on other public lands so the Fourth of July parade Mard Street dance rotary plunge lot of these things are happening adjacent to Parks but not always necessarily in Parks so um the questions here would be would the city council like the commission to be reviewing summer all public or private events and then other information you'd like the council to just kind of state about events um again I agree with you mayor Bane I don't know that there's answers to all of these questions tonight but I think as we recruit an onboard volunteers to at least let them know the council is engaging in conversations most specifically around that events and programming aspect and their role I think it's really going to help us better guide that commission help guide that commission into on the right path um in just preparing things like materials for discussions of work plans and um making sure we're kind of putting some parameters in place for those discussions Council open it up feedback specific to events start with the easy one huh you're starting with the easy one start with the easy one yeah I have a couple of thoughts just to get us started um so I want to be clear that there to me there's a difference between what what the council is doing or what the commission is doing and what staff is doing and so I I want to preface this by saying um I'm very supportive of the city being involved in these events and ensuring their success um and this is where there's a tricky handoff between the commission and staff um and I would because what I Envision is certainly the commission is aware and certainly the commission is involved to some degree on soliciting feedback or providing some input certainly um as they are out interacting with the community they're gathering information and bringing that information back to the commission and back to staff I think is just naturally part of the role when it comes to individual events I'm troubled by if there if there's a a a question of approval if that's kind of the question I'm troubled because I I feel that we should have a a policy that kind of guides you know here's what our policies are and staff is best position to execute those policies and I would say that the role of the commission or Council for that matter is more on an exception basis when something comes up with a request or there's a there's a request for resources made that is just outside of that policy or unusual or a first time that then certainly the commission is a sounding board in their advisory role and as a council member I would value that opinion um but I would look at that to be more of the exception rather than the rule when I look at what's on the sheet right now their standard you know their standard activities that with all respect I understand is a lot of Staff time to execute but I'm not sure that there's a role for the commission or Council unless there's a specific question um other than just again being a general sounding board and a general um um um sounding board or kind of um kind of layers on to the community for feedback um that's just my thought open to yeah could you go back go back one slide to the actually questions on the table okay so if we're looking at these questions you know the first one I mean I guess I I would say you know the answer is probably yes you know um but I'd like to to get to the first question about plan execute events because we already have we have some great events um that I think the the former commission or board were instrumental in in in their service and volunteerism um and and our downtown Plan called for more events um in public spaces and so this is where I know you shared a couple weeks ago you know was we were talking about the importance of getting this board seated is that it would be wise to have a Runway of workshops you know joint workshops so that we could all get on the same page and so while I wouldn't see any immediate changes to our programming you know from event standpoint I would certainly expect that as things unfold you know and and we migrate towards that downtown plan that called for more activity that this new Parks and Recreation Commission should absolutely be involved in that um yeah so that's my thoughts on that first question and is it is it more on than new and development rather than in supporting current yeah okay okay can I just um offer an observation so the downtown plan as you said calls for more events I think the question here tonight though is is it necessary for your Parks Commission to be the one who gets those more events or is that an Eda role is that a staff role um so it's not necessarily about that but I would just is is that what you want your Parks Commission to be focusing their time on as opposed to replacing equipment developing new parks recreation programming so you may want it as a city but really the question tonight is do you think this falls in the Parks Commission so I just want to maybe challenge you a little bit on that to make sure that that's the right place when you know not to say we don't want events but is this the place that you want to if their time is on on event something's going to give right um and I think that's really what we're trying to get to is some of the priorities for this Parks Commission what do you see their role being so well good point and and actually I mean I probably see that evolving um I mean initially yeah it's probably more on potentially the maintenance side of things but I mean who who owns these current events then I mean they were pretty involved weren't they with so the three that we're listing here springling arts in the park and hometown holiday have been um coordinated with Parks programming So Jamie with cons consultation with the parks and reg or the former commission um some of those other events these are all privately organized events that in some way shape or form may have gone to the commission or the council because of some feature in those events but traditionally weren't actually planned by City staff in the commission so I think the tool that you're missing in all honesty is a lot of cities will have a special events ordinance separate from your Parks Commission and yes there are certain events every Parks Commission does it's you know maybe one two or three of them like you have here but it's those other events um that is in my opinion in my observation is not typical to run through a Parks Commission one think I'm challenged by um and maybe this is part part of where council member Ericson is going is um part of where I'm challenged is I feel like it needs a home before Council right so I feel like if there isn't a part if there isn't a commission that has primary responsibility for it it's coming direct to council and I feel like that's where we get it's where we run the risk of getting it wrong and so while it might not be a big footprint of their work plan I think it should be a part of it or because again if it's if it's not if it's not running through Parks Commission then again we're kind of the first stop and um your staff would be your first stop well staff for sure but then but then again there's there's times when there's always um close proximity breeds better communication and better awareness and I feel like having that better Awareness on the part of the Parks Commission is it's been part of our tradition and I I think as a council we would you know we benefit from having that feedback now again may not be a big footprint in what we're look what their work plan looks like but um you know certainly I think there's a tradition that is it's a very positive one of kind of being the sounding board for arts in the park and other large events that we've done of what's gone well what do we need to do there's there's just some good value there that I'd hate to lose and I I think as council members we benefit from having additional eyes and ears and you know those that additional that bigger network but how many times would they have to meet for events type thing you know what I mean it would be it'd be almost out of hand it got to be some staff involvement in situation like that and uh so how often were how often were you meeting before like once a month so council member no I don't know if he well so Terry you've come to the podium um I'm happy to take some additional comment but I want us to get through a little bit of this conversation first and so you're welcome to stay there but um I'll sit down and you can call me up or I can talk now whichever you I want I want us to get into just a little further along um and just get a good meeting flow of discussion items and I'm happy to take some additional comment so okay I'll wait then thank you y council member Roberts so can we go to the slide with those the examples of different events so like when you look at this and you see private event public land um is this a wedding at or family reunion in a park gazebo is that what that some of them are Gazebo rentals yeah um most of the weddings and family unions I would say happen in a facility but they may be it might you know spill out into a larger portion of the park so I I could see where um this new parks commissioner board comes up with the policies to have an event such as that in a gazebo or anywhere in the park when you go um public event private land I don't I mean I you know as long as there you know maybe there's a they have to get a permit for Amplified music or whatever where that would just be for through staff I don't see where a Parks Commission would have to be involved in that um Fourth of July so these are different so the the powerb races that happens in the park so maybe there is some feedback from a commission on that or again that policy is already in place to address an event like that that's a larger event we've done a number of years it's been very successful um then you go to the the Fourth of July the street dance um I was involved in the street dance the city did a nice job we work strictly with public works on that to block off uh some space we use the the water treatment area and I don't think that a park sport needs to be involved in that so if you're breaking it down that way it's if it's if it's in a park and and yes it's maybe a new event maybe you get that feedback but have them work on what those policies are so that we're not having to meet every time an event comes up oh geez are we going to are we okay with this what you know if it's a brand new event that's never come to the city maybe another set of eyes on it is is good to to talk it through if you don't mind mayor ban I think that uh council member robis I think those are great suggestions I think we started a little over a year ago in uh starting conversations about special events and creating policy and that had been delayed with just the number of vacancies we've had in the last year I think this is a a really good maybe Workshop um Workshop item but also a work plan item that we can work in consultation both with the council and the future Parks Commission because I do see a role they've been involved or the former commission was involved in at least reviewing some of these to see what the impact would be um I know that there have been times where staff has been kind of in the room and saying oh my gosh we've got three events that month what is that impact going to be to Lakeside Park or resources V being able to vet some of those things out with a commission but not all of these is I think very appropriate so um I don't know I see a few heads uh nodding I don't know if the entire commission agrees but I do appreciate that approach that maybe it's not a one-sized fits-all approach and then sounds like we could at least eliminate the ones that are not on Parkland right from the Parks Commission perview which has been the case and then to to the the question on whether or not there's City sponsored events I I think those those three key ones that are happening I mean when you think about arts in the park I mean what a crown jewel for the city it really really is and that had to do a lot with with Jamay and that Park commission over the years that it just continued to grow the hometown holiday that's gaining I mean I I was down there last year we were all down you know I think down there and helped out and we had beautiful weather but what an amazing event uh the the Spring Fling I think those things if there's more appetite for that newly seated commission to take on a few and if the council has that appetite to do so I would be open to that but um to Christina's point on the downtown plan says we want more event it doesn't have to be fully City sponsored you know help out be invol involved Public Works has to step in and close streets down uh police department involved that involvement I think is is just as important as as having a board involved but just seeing the the engagement of having a board in the park that is seen you know the the corn feed has been brought up I mean that isn't a great event you have most board members are out there been volunteering for years and it's just great to see that and for the public to see as well well I think you you brought up um arts in the park and um I think that might be a good example of where um the the commission involvement is helpful um number of it's been quite some time because the entertainment has been very very good but there was a um an effort number of years ago to just improve the quality of entertainment and the variety of entertainment and so just getting that feedback and that you know again me commission members have a large Network what are you hearing what are the most popular nights what do we want to see more of what do we want to see less of kind of getting that feedback and looping them into they're not I don't think reviewing specific contracts but providing that guidance and that sounding board um I just think has created a better event so things like that it's um it it it is some level of involvement and um but it's more of again it's kind of providing that feedback based on what they hear and um observe on those nights Christina looks like you might have something no all good discussion yeah I I keep thinking like for these events it'd be more of a bigger picture conversation and how do we move forward what's going good what's not going good um instead of I don't really picture it as like day-to-day things when it's when it comes to these three events or just events in general I guess but I I agree with Blake too on that other slide um that I think they should be more focused on public land events private land not um focused on that and then I think like um what you said Mara if it's a new big event kind of focus on that as well great I think that this is all I mean this is really helpful this a lot of this are very standard of how the we've been operating um I just know I've heard as we've been soliciting new applicants that there has been an increase in people that want to plan events and we really want to make sure that we're not necessarily setting an unreasonable expectation for this new commission I know I included in um my slide here about just the word recreation increased programming I did hear from council member Roberts you know if there's more events or increased programming having those conversations um is important we titled this commission the Parks and Recreation Commission I think that's pretty standard but it's not really a Recreation Commission and the question really was do we want to keep that name um formerly it was Parks trails and lakes I've always gotten those mixed up um whether or not you want to kind of revert back to that kind of what they're looking at versus um not something we have to figure out today but uh just something to consider so since we're Ming merging back into structure um the com the ordinance currently says seven member commission threeyear terms two seats sitting available one for fla and one for the school district so the question I would have for the council is whether or not you want to see a seven member commission you want to have um those specific seats two of those so five citizens one from flaw and one from the school district um whether or not you want to have a seven member commission with the two ex official or else a five member commission with two ex officio I can say um I know mayor Bane council member husnik um both serve right now on the Eda and council member Roberts and council member Ericson also formerly served on the Eda um the model in which we have and the Eda is a really nice model at least from a staff perspective that our partner are in the room and engaged in that dialogue and helping support those and inform those conversations but really the generals citizen members the citizen commissions are making the the decisions so um one just a little bit of point of perspective um went back and jotted down where we've been on this topic and you know historically well previously um you know going back five years or so we had um our Parks SES and trails commission we had a flaw leison leison who was a member of council we had a Fenway Advisory Board we had a senior center leison and we had a senior center board that was made up of senior center members and there were times when getting all thoughts in the room as we were considering structural changes with flaw and the use of Fenway in particular um where it was just a very disjointed approach and it was challenging to get it it was it was like we almost ended up in joint workshops because we were talking about one thing and to have one thing with very limited staff you know we only have a couple of Staff trying to then coordinate all of these pieces and then at the top you've got Council trying to vote on all of these pieces it was just very fragmented and so as we thought about what was a better structure I I do and whether they're voting member or an ex official member and I can appreciate why ex official might be better having those having that common structure and having flaw in the school district in the room for those conversations and it's all coming through par commission and um then all going then to council I I think is more streamlined um and and so I just wanted to give that context as to why we got there um again I don't have any strong opinions on if they're voting or ex official but I I do think we would benefit from having the right people in the room at the right time rather than these fragmented commissions working on different things so what was the size of the former commission seven members seven and we I believe we had um at I think I think at one time so the the Fenway Advisory Board was made up of two council members staff um uh Park commission at least one or two Parks Commission members and then um members from flaw um and then we had a council layers on to flaw um and then the senior center lay is on as well so um lots of different people that were involved um and when did when did that structure change five years ago yeah so when we so I we stopped that structure when we put a pause on the parks lakes and trails commission just with the thought of gosh let's rather than being fragmented let's kind of bring everybody back together um so that's when we stopped having the layers on positions and um the Fenway Advisory Board also the the Fenway Advisory Board in it's later years my observation was it got to a spot where it was um conversations that you know staff would have the conversation first and then it would go to Fenway Advisory Board and then it would go to count it would go to Parks Commission it would go to council it was just very repetitive um and let's be more streamlined and get all of the people in the room at the right time so cons you know the I I think having those Partners involved is very important um I and I don't think they should be a voting member but I also don't think they should take up two potential community members seats so you know a seven member commission and I know this gets to be a big group then but a seven member commission with those two as you know non voting members I I just the more feedback the more eyes that people living in the community just seems to make sense and then the that part is then they flaw or the school district can decide whether or not to be involved in those meetings based if that's an agenda item I mean they don't have to attend every every meeting uh nette the at the chamber doesn't attend every Eda meeting um only when it's pertinent to what she has you know chamber just a thought I I understand the group gets to be big but I would hate to lose out to two people's in community that's the same size as the Ed right the Ed is seven Members Plus X official and they Planning Commission is commiss it's a normal size it's not too big um so mayor B you do bring up uh the former um advisory did include Senior Center representation I didn't throw this in here as well the DDA Staffing study does kind of ask about the the senior center as part of you know your Parks and Recreation system I don't know if the council has any thoughts on that right now of whether or not you'd like to have an additional ex official member of uh somebody from the senior center or not um we haven't really talked about it I don't know that we necessarily have any strong feelings one way or another I don't know if you want to seat the commission and we revisit that at a later time or not that's I um your thoughts on Senior Center I guess I have a strong opinion I I think there's a question of if is the park commiss does the park commission kind of have oversight of the senior center kind of similar to events um or is there some level of involvement with the senior center um today there really isn't no there isn't any involvement no okay yeah the question is it really necessary it seems like it's very well-run situation now and I'm not sure why parks would have to be necessarily involved in it I would say I guess the DDA study put it here under the recreation title yeah you know if you wanted to be doing more recreational programming within the community that it would um you'd bring in the senior center I I I like the idea of if it's if we're sticking with with Parks and Recreation which I would prefer then I would like to see the senior center I think stay under Parks they do a lot of recreation and a lot of um events I know that they have I mean we've been getting emails for how the great work Jill has been doing over there and um people can rent the building out for different activities graduations or parties and then of course you can go to their like card games and whatnot so if we envision it as parks and Recreation I think Senior Center should be under under it I would say part of the work plan um I'm not sure it's a separate member right I'm not sure there's a separate member representative I would see it as you know certainly as there are topics to be discussed then it comes at you know then it certainly could go to the park commission but I'm not sure it would be a separate dedicated um you know ex official member uh the one thing to one thing to note about the senior center is we're under you know we've got the good fortune right now of having great Staffing who's doing a great job um but um I don't mean to put a butt at the end of that the the risk of that is we have a person who's doing a great job and we've had a situation where we also had a previous great person doing a great job who you know chose to retire and so it's it's doing it's going well and until we have um some sort of a staffing change and so having you know somebody who's you you know in this case it's a commission that is um having some familiarity getting period you know they understand basic operations I think would be helpful and those times of transition should whenever occur um so one thing I can say knowledge uh just for members of the council that isn't aware during with the Eda we try to do you know quarterly development reports right like Ed is focused on building the tax Bas and all the all the things but the Eda isn't always aware of all the nuts and bolts of what's going on in a planning and zoning office and applications coming through maybe what it is is to start we you know ask Jill to maybe provide some sort of just update what are some of the recreation activities that have been happening in the last three months or coming up in the next three months just for awareness at least for right now and then maybe we can you know if there are Staffing changes someday or something we we look at we revisit this conversation I think I I know I have enough Direction right now um I know that uh an ordinance Amendment a minor ordinance Amendment will need to come back before you to change the seven member commission to remain a seven member commission with two ex official members the one from fla in the school district um we may just change a few words or put in a few descriptor words around our commission duties when it kind of comes to those special public events to really just kind of help clarify that that that happening on public land right that are happening in the system so that we can at least kind of put some parameters on those things a lot of this will happen through our policy development um processes um but it maybe put in a couple words in there and then I think uh I'll have that for you it won't be next week in a couple weeks um I would imagine uh we could have interviews scheduled for p prospective applicant um probably miday with maybe seaing them recommendations early June um it would be our hope that the first couple meetings we might be able to do some joint workshops between the council and this commission to do some good onboarding some educational components some of the stuff we're you know talking about right now but then really just start leading into some of that just what are we going to focus on the rest of this year kind of getting us geared up for then subsequent years afterwards so unless the Count Council I want to offer another idea that I think we had talked about um that we have a work plan in place when we seat them um for the rest of this year and then they would develop their work plan to come to you for approval for the next year and a lot of it will be the onboarding it require them to tour the parks Jamie and I had kind of been talking about a few ideas but I know mayor at one point in time you had brought that up and so maybe it starts out as some joint sessions but really you know I think in order to help set this commission up for Success especially if there's is going to be a lot of new members let's have at least the rest of their year planned out which is you know only half the Year by the time they're they're appointed is that still a direction you want to go or do you just want to kind of take it as joint meetings with them I had forgotten that chrisa maybe both I think some initial joint there's some big there are some big items um I I don't know if it was in your staff memo this time we're just talking about you know long-term Park Plan and there's some some just current state items that they will they will cover naturally as part of onboarding that I know as Council we would also benefit from so just including us in some of those onboarding and some joint workshops um it's more of review the stage rather than digging into work I think would be helpful for all of us just to kind of come at come at our start with a kind of a common front door if you will um and then I also like the idea though of you know beyond those first couple of onboarding sessions having you know that work plan planned out just I I think is also helpful I think what we could do is probably bring back maybe even for just a brief discussion in May hey here's what we think we could possibly get done you know June through December some of it's work plan but some of it's kind a plan for what are some of those topic points that we're going to talk about and where where is the council and the commission really need to work hand in hand together with that um I will say I think we have um five applicants I believe may have been six I do know one former commissioner would still like to continue to serve so we are contining to accept applications if you know anyone um send them our way or online perfect so can I ask question and I want give Terry an um so what uh similar when being on the Planning Commission at liaison being leaz on to that that process what does the process look to interview are you going to have some Council involvement on that I I'm open either way I'm not saying it has to just curious to see what the thought is on how we I envisioned um because I got the blessing of the council earlier this year when we were on you know soliciting other applicants Planning Commission Eda that we would hold the we'd offer the same process that we did before that the council liaison um would interview with at at this point I think it would it would because we don't have a chair be mayor Bane now that being said you certainly can appoint two council members currently the way the policy is written is that mayor B makes the recommendations um I think that there's value in the interviews between it would be council member valento and what would have been the you know there had been an existing chair I think that there's some value in interviews that way but it would be up to the council to decide um I assumed we'd have uh council member valento and um mayor Bane in those meetings but I'll defer to the council whatever you'd like and I'm happy to not be in those interviews we can talk about some Logistics here as we start thinking about scheduling and what that looks like um if I have opportunity to make the recommendation then maybe it makes sense I have two others do the interview but we can we can talk about logistics again when we're closer to that time Terry I I want to give you another opportunity and before we kind of close out this conversation and um want to hear what's on your mind I just quickly reinforce so I just wanted on the privately held events the Parks Commission has never reviewed or weighed in on a privately held event that's not in the Parks and so I wanted to reinforce your thoughts on that and that having them have some input because people come to the commission and say hey did you know this is happening in the Parks or hey tell us about this event and if they're not involved in some way shape or form they can't support you and the community um so I just wanted to make that I love Christina's idea about planning it out for the the rest of the year and that gets back to the ordinance tells them what they can do but you're at least seating them and you're setting them up for success in that you're sharing with them this is what's on the plate for the remainder of the Year this is and that way everybody knows what is going to be completed by the end of this year there's no questions whether Council or anybody else you're setting them up for Success so and I would offer again all of the Commissioners that have resigned have offered their feedback their input have offered to sit down with you as a group and we will make that offer again if you have questions about what's happened historically you know what may be beneficial we would be happy to meet with the new commission we would be happy to meet with any of you we would be happy to meet with City staff so keep that in mind as you're moving forward because all of us are passionate about this community and and the the people of this community so we are available as a resource if you choose to utilize it thank you so we keep hearing this feedback about um sitting sitting um having a conversation with the resigned council members and um I have had an opportunity to speak with a couple and but this keeps coming up and so I feel like council member valento as leaz on and I should have that meeting we should have that meeting and it it again it it keeps coming up and so and and it it keeps coming up because I think there's information that needs to be shared and the certainly wanting to be shared and so if if you would um I I think we should entertain that meeting and um and do that as part as we're thinking about kind of bringing the new park park board on um on board I haven't had this I haven't said let's sit down um prior to this and I haven't addressed this publicly but for number of reasons one as you know former chair um steam black shared tonight the the resignation letters were were pretty specific um and so there was there was that level of specificity and also I just have respect for our commission members are volunteers and their servants and when you get to the spot of I just need to be done I want to be respectful of I get it you just want to be done and and and I wanted to be respectful of that resignation um but every time we talk about this topic somebody comes to the podium and says I still want to be involved I want to also be respectful of that and so if there's information that should be shared um I think the two of us should sit down and just have that meeting um I I don't think it's appropriate to do in a full public meeting and a full you know Quorum of council and um I I think it's something that you and I can do and we can certainly bring that feedback back to council so um you and I can talk about timing and we'll certainly reach out so thank you for being here tonight anything else before we move on from this this topic just a I so then uh thisly seated commission will help go through the process of deciding where Parks lands is it its own entity is it part of uh public works or is that where are we out of that because that question is a big big piece of this where does it land so great question um who has who has thoughts I have some thoughts I just don't want to jump in with my my my thoughts Christina do you have some thoughts on well so I think I think it's important that the council give direction on what those things should be so that you're not putting your Parks Commission in a difficult position commission serve at the pleasure of the council and it's should be what you want it should be you know that structure should be decided by you and they get to make recommendations back on Parks related stuff I think a in my opinion structure is a council decision not the people who are going to be the structure if that makes sense it almost feels a little bit weird little little bit of a conflict maybe or something right depending on who those people are and what they might want to do I would ask the councils again 50,000 foot level what is it that you want to see out of your Parks Commission and even from a structure standpoint of a Abby had a question in there if it's two departments or one department and those different models I think that's an important thing for the council to decide no offense to any public comment they're welcome to come and and provide that feedback back um but that would be my recommendation is that that that decision and that leadership and vision needs to come from the five of you any thoughts on this topic I picture it with the size of our parks department now and then with how big our three main events are and I think with the growth of the downtown plan wanting to do more events and just seeing it hopefully get bigger um I Envision it one day being its own department for me I think it being under Public Works is bizarre um I get the whole I get the m i get the maintenance perspective but when you again when you throw in the recreation aspect it just doesn't fit for me um because I think maintenance and the public work side of it is just one aspect of it and then when you're talking about the different aspects it gets to be this bigger department and so I think one day I I just picture it as its own Department especially if we want to emphasize our Parks if we want to keep growing our Parks if we want to keep growing and amending our events and making them as best that we can I just I picture it to be bigger than what it is now not huge but just just just growing and I think in as we sit today it has to be too though right I mean I don't I don't I'd love to hear if you disagree with that um and I and I mean to and that they take team that um that Public Works representative is attending the Parks Commission meetings along with our park and recre supervisor to make sure that you have both that recreational aspect of it and your maintenance aspect voice that is there at those meetings not faing things down afterwards so I think there's that tweak from my understanding that that hasn't been happening in the past and I I would recommend that that um be implemented with the new Parks Commission being seated I um I see this as an area where for this point in time in the near term I think this is more of the art of management rather than the science and there's lots of different models that are going to work um is an area where I feel that what's going to work for us is what's going to work based off of kind of leadership of new city administrator and kind of the recommendation from staff I I this is an area where I feel strongly in the I don't know what's the best model for us right now I can see the pros and cons I can see the challenges currently um but I this is an area where I feel very inqui to say yes we need to have this model I I feel like the best model for us is going to be the best model that our you know great staff are going to work in and that's hard to that's hard to project from where we sit from my perspective how's that for an I don't a great segue to the next item that is not to cut off any perks any other topics on perks before we talk about long range Staffing plan all right let's take that segue Christina uh so mayor and Council uh some of you may have may recall seeing a long rrange Staffing plan back in 2021 um I reviewed that briefly that was a plan through 2040 what what you have before you tonight is just looking out at the next 10 years of staffing needs and the purpose of that is to align with your um long-term financial management plan you did a lot of work last year on on projecting operations and capital and other needs um but I'm not sure that you Dove real deep into the Staffing part of it and so we want to start this is kind that first big kickoff of of the budget components that Kevin had laid out in the last council meeting when you when you talked about the um budget calendar um so a little different again because it's only 10 years not out to 2040 but um I wanted to include some um numbers from the Met Council about growth and before you know it you're going to be starting your 2050 comp plan process and so they've released back in January already the forecast numbers for that and so that will help us to to project cheed out um and when I when I do a quick comparison of the 2050 forecast compared to the 2040 forecast it looks like you're not projected to grow quite as fast on the population side but a little bit faster on the job side which which I thought was interesting and maybe a reflection of a lot of the focus that the city has put into Economic Development over the the past few years but that's just a a guess on my part um but I I and there's a lot of different sources that you can use um when you're looking at demog Graphics right the there's the Met council stuff the census comes out uh Maxfield does some stuff I know with the County CDA I purposely use this because it's easiest to compare when you use the same source and so sometimes you'll see in reports that there's a US sensus number that number isn't doesn't always jive with met council's number the start TR did a big story about it a couple years ago just their methodology methodology is different so um for that purpose that's why I use the Met Council numbers so that we have those comparisons going forward um and so tonight again kind of a high level introduction but you know we we want to hear what questions you have about the positions we've proposed give us um any feedback that you have about providing them in the longrange financial management plan unless we hear other direction tonight um The Next Step will be for Kevin to in um share this with Ellers and incorporate it into our long-range financial management plan um and if it all seems really overwhelming please at least focus on the 20 25 positions because I I understand that it can be a lot so um I won't go through uh every position unless you you want me to but I will just kind of touch on each department and their asks so the administration department is a a significant change from the plan in 2021 that just asked for an HR generalist as you know we had conversations earlier this year about the reorganization of the administration department and and putting HR into the administrative Services director role and these three positions too are really going to be dependent upon the C the direction Council wants to go um so the first one the management analysts would be a position to kind of help do some of that research stuff when we get to the next agenda item and if you looked at your spreadsheet last week in the 28 items already that we've got in in three months you know we can't keep up with that with our current Staffing so if the council wants to continue down that road we're going to need some some help and this is kind of a a researcher role if you will analyst role if you're somehow able to to trim that down or be patient or however we manage that maybe you don't need to add this position in 2026 so there there's no positions in admin um requested for 2025 too so you have some time to think about all of these the next one flows I think really well from our Parks discussion so Communications and then I put in parenthesis maybe it's an events coordinator and again a lot of this will depend upon what the city expects from a Communications perspective we are so excited to have Julene start today as our city Clerk and we've already talked a lot about her taking over the communications role um we will bring a council item uh forward about whether or not we should continue our contract with peachy or or if we should bring that in housee I think where we sit today if the expectations were to remain the same I think your city clerk can do those functions may not be the fancy graphic design stuff that pachy does and that's a discussion that you'll have to you know have if you want to continue that but if you want to expand Communications if you want to expand events and do more of them in the future we're going to need to add a position and so this is really a placeholder for that discussion um an an events coordinator I put in administration because a lot of times in cities when you have a special events ordinance it's your city clerk who works with all of your other um department heads police fire Public Works and processes those um that that was kind of why I pushed back a little bit on the previous discussion about um park or about events Park events certainly within the the commission but if there's those other events that perhaps Administration is the best place for that to be housed and then the last one in 2030 again really a placeholder depending upon growth and some of the DDA study um conversations were was that there was this need for more administrative support there wasn't a cohesive um uh or it could be challenging at the front desk I think that Angela and the finance department does an amazing job right now and always smiles in tons of compliments so I'm not not looking to take her away until Kevin tells me she's overwhelmed and we got to move her away from that um and so these are really longer term ones for the administration department and new um the next one that we looked at is the community and perhaps County community and economic development department again for to have that emphasis on economic development last year you were asked um what was the title planning and Eda supervisor um Abby and I talked through this and and I think a planning manager is a more appropriate um title for that it would be that second in command in the department um and help tackle some of these projects that are going on to help free up her time to focus on economic development um and do some of that policy stuff this also assumes through the DDA study there was the recommendation that the building inspections department be moved under um Community Development so your org chart if you will would have your community development director your planning man manager and all your Planning and Zoning folks and then you'd have your building official and all your inspectors permit Tech and whatnot kind of splitting it off but still then in one Department to work together on on things code enforcement officer I push back to 2028 I think with that planning manager developing that some programming for code enforcement um that that's not an immediate need in my opinion um we can certainly talk about that I know you've had a lot of conversations um over the last year about that but I I pr prioritize the planning manager role for this department over the over the code enforcement officer and then again further down the road depending on growth there may need to be a community um development specialist to help um with that workload uh fire department I think you those of you on the joint fireboard heard this um a month ago and some of you on the that when we talked about the saf Grant safer Grant excuse me the training Captain is the top priority for them for next year um we will put it in there as a placeholder and if we don't get that Grant in um August or September um we will budget as if we don't get the grant if we do then you can make that decision about whether you keep it in there or take it out um and then in a couple years having another um full-time position there which would be the Fire Marshall and fire inspector to get that fire inspection program rolling again I'm sorry I'm going really fast I I don't mean if if um to ignore the other departments here if they have some have something to um in Police Department um my top recommendation for them next year is community service officers I know you've heard this before to me it's it's helps in a number of ways it helps start get people in the pipeline for the recruitment as we've been hearing are starting starting to be a challenge they can do some of those lower level nuisance things as well and lower level calls that not only reduces the um call volume for your Patrol officers but maybe while they're out they're snapping the pictures of the ad Advertising Signs in the right of way or the tall grass or something like that and and really trying to hit on some a lot of those needs across the city which is why I prioritize that um the chief would also like another Administrative Assistant we put it in there for part-time next year again if if we only gave them one I I would prioritize the community service officers um because I know we have limited funds but we threw it out here in case you know suddenly we have funding for everything um patrol sergeants you'll see there's um she can't even say it with a straight face Chief have that Public Safety dollar spent over and over I think um we also have some placeholders in here for um I'm sorry the next one is a patrol Sergeant um to add in 2026 and um just so that we can have 247 coverage for Sergeants um when folks are on vacation or are out of the office for other reasons the next one is a um is a big ask of six Patrol officers over the next 10 years uh two in each year identified there um yeah I'm not going to say anything more about that um a c a second captain position I know you had some conversations briefly about this last fall um but the idea would be to have two captains one that kind of oversees Patrol and one that oversees um Administration and the detectives and then again future down the road 2032 an office manager um just again if there's the growth in staff with another Administrative Assistant growth with calls that you would need to have somebody overseeing them so that you're not taking time away from your from your sergeants um we're almost done public works I think is the last one so the top ask for public works for next year is a utility superintendent and when you look if you looked ahead to the financial impact this is the one that saves money in a number of of funds with the exception of the water fund um but it would and it saves funds because it would replace the storm water tech position that you approved this year that we have not recruited for and filled and it would replace one of the um utilities Foreman positions so that you currently have two you would go down to one but it would add this higher level oversight um that's needed utilities just continue to get more and more complex with all the regulations that are coming down from the state and feds and and I think um I agree with Dave that you need to have somebody at a higher management level to make sure that those requirements are being met um due to growth as well over the next 10 years there's three maintenance equipment operators the one in 2026 um will be needed because you're adding another plow route so the other ones may be adjusted depending upon growth but we know with the recent development um particularly with the number of trails uh in the city that you'll need to add a plow route in 2026 and so you you typically staff um for your winter needs and then you use your seasonals in the summer for public works and so that's why I say that the plow route is driving that need um the public works department is also seeking an administrative assistant they don't have one now it was in the DDA study however they don't have space for one now and so the timing is contingent upon when the new Public Works facility is built we are estimating optimistically that that would be 2028 that we would be in there um similarly with um moving into the new facility there would be a mechanic position added and this would help bring some of the work in house for the police department and fire department that's currently be being contracted out and so there could be some savings there if we could add another mechanic and we have the space we don't currently have the space to be able to do that um next there's a couple of um utility maintenance and equipment operators those are a few years out again just dependent upon growth and lastly a street um um superintendent position way out there in 2030 but we wanted to have a placeholder in there we may or may not you know revisit that whole park superintendent position depending upon where you go but I didn't feel like we had good enough Direction when we drafted the staff report to include that so um again the you know the fiscal impact there our first focus is just mainly on 2025 because we really I really want to hear back from you at least on on those positions um and this is the four recommended positions that I noted so so it does not include the part-time Administrative Assistant for the police department um I picked the top ones for each department you may notice that there was nothing for finance Finance is set for the next 10 years um as well so I I forgot to mention that I didn't put a big goose egg under finance department but they are they they are set um and then I just threw in again you know we talked about this when we talked about Public Safety funding a couple months ago I we really think that Community Service Officer positions two part-time positions are good for all of those reasons that I mentioned before if there are concerns from a levy standpoint perhaps use the public safety dollars to ease those positions in so the first year it covers 75% of those costs the next year is 50% then 25% and then in their fourth year they would be fully covered by the levy but that allows you time for growth in the community to help absorb those costs um and with that I think unless any of the other department heads um have anything to add we will open it up for discussion questions direction from Council thank you Christina um Christina before we jump further um can you you and I have had a conversation about um the ERS financial model and some enhancements that may be provided to council for the 10year plan specifically on the revenue side um can you just give a kind of an overview of what that looks like just um as we're talking about expenses it's helpful to see what's happening with Revenue modeling and um yeah so um another thing that we discovered that Ellers also made a presentation back in 2021 so any of you that might remember that it was March of 2021 20 right 21 or 20 um where they had this plan and so we're just updating it and how it differs from what you had last year um in your 10-year plan um in a couple ways and and Kevin will help me if I forget anything but on the revenue side it will include growth projections so if you just look at your Levy increasing as as a growing community of course your Levy is going to increase right you're going to have more roads to plow you might need more Parks you're going to need more police officers and all these things um but you're going to have growth there to support that increase tax base to support that and so the um at the bottom s side then once you've got all those Revenue stuff in there from that standpoint um expenses which again you had a really good start with your um projecting out your operations and your capital and now you'll have new Staffing your debt levies all of those things going out but then you get down to the very bottom of it and it will tell you the actual dollar impact on your average home over all of those years and I've found that that's more helpful in talking to folks rather than the Le you know the levy might increase 40% but that doesn't mean your taxes are going to go up 40% right because you've got new growth coming in in uh in there it might go up I don't know 133% or something you know what I mean so I my opinion or my thought and you can correct me if I'm wrong but it's really about what is that impact to the median home it's only one line I know when Kevin does the budget he can give you a bunch of different housing values and and whatnot but from a long range plan all those things projected out 10 years take your median home value and see what happens to that median home value how much they're or median home how much they're paying so there will be assumption in there about their increase of their property there as well right because we all hope that our property values continue to increase until we have to pay taxes we love it when we sell but you know so I think in in that way um so again mayor and uh council member valento and council member husnik you may remember this from 2021 so it will be very similar to that but um I think key important additions from what um you saw last year so I wanted to point that out cuz every time we're looking at like projected you know expenses over a 10-year timeline um I automatically start plugging these numbers into our 10-year plan and um it's been helpful to just think about that yes um the it's helpful to have that expense identification and slotted by year but also to have in um when we're looking at what is the impact of that bottom line Levy to have a more mature revenue forecast is also helpful and so um I I think it's good to it would be good to see that presentation and good to know that that's coming because I just think it makes some of these decisions a little bit more um palatable a little bit easier to think about um that there are ways for all of the pieces in this puzzle to fit so and going forward I would expect that you would see that long range financial management plan every year right and so just like your operating budget where you can change things we may sit here this year and have our growth projections and either the economy goes up or the economy goes down and you adjust that and similarly then you might a lot of these positions I mentioned were related to growth right so that gives you that kind of snapshot where you have where you see all those things and if growth isn't happening you might push out you know an extra patrol officer a couple years or if it's going faster than we had expected you might need to push it up on the timeline and so I think I hope um that it will be a really good tool for the council in that way to have everything in one I mean there's there's a lot of like tabs behind the spreadsheet but we can narrow it down so that it's all on one sheet for you to see things at a high level and know what those impacts are so that's me geeking out on finance and I don't mean to pull us too far off of the question at hand which is actually long range long range Staffing so Council open to feedback or questions that you might have on specific um positions proposed or timing or whatever Direction you want to take it well I I really appreciate the layout um a lot of detail which I really appreciate I got to tell you though the the one that really shocked me was the code enforcement officer um you know it was not a um well accepted that we pushed off that one and so now to see you pushed off for three years it kind of blows my mind um how is it going with the new ordinance and being able to respond you know currently to um complaints I it is complaint-based system so how can you give me an update on just how that's going and why we think think we can wait for three more years sure I I think it's been a slow start this year but they are getting the program in place and if you look back by the dumpster there's a bunch of Advertising Signs pulled so um I'm optimistic uh also I will say that you know perhaps your previous administrator just saw different um priorities for the city than than I do your next administrator may change it back again next year um so that's why we want to it's only as good as the person Mak the recommendation right if you see something differently please let us know but um I think if with the what they've started and the help that Amanda has given and again to get that planning manager position in to make sure that there's somebody overseeing other folks who should be doing it because it it's a multi-os um effort in order to respond to all the code enforcement issues and then also like I said the CSO position I think helps that out and so it's it's a number of those things that I'm hoping come together in just the right mix that we can push that out I could be wrong my crystal ball is foggy couple different opinions and that yeah the planning I want to mention this too so I also wrote in there and I'm sorry I didn't say it but the planning manager I would propose to um be your Airport Manager um because in my brief window of time here other than um a little bit of the financial with the lease rate stuff I'm seeing things fall into two buckets and one is kind of your maintenance and capital stuff so your Public Works can do the maintenance you've got both and make to do your capital and a lot of the other stuff is um Economic Development code enforcement related which Falls within the community development department and so that's why I identified that position if you you know were to choose to hire consultant for example instead you know maybe it's that person who manages that contract but um I forgot to mention that when I was going through it so um can we talk a little bit more about um the timing for patrol officer increases um so we have do we have two open are we recruiting two open positions right now so right now we have two vacancies correct with two conditional drop offers out those so they may be full okay be optimistic actively recruiting for um and then the plan would be two more two more in 2026 is that right yep and once again this is uh as Christina had mentioned you know such such a moving you just don't know I mean it's it's literally sometimes it's uh you know every six months every year things can change depending on uh calls I mean there are so many things that have changed with uh the calls for service that we respond to and I know you're all very well aware of it uh the mental health and if you listen to my radio in one day you'd be amazed in this County how many calls for service that we call it a um pic we even use This Acronym now that I didn't even hear you know a year ago and it's a person in crisis and it's it's incredible so some of these calls you know I back in the day 20 years ago you always look at the cost for service now we're starting to look at what types of calls we responding to and how long you're out on these calls because they can take you know some are very easy you know you do a vehicle lock out or there's a phone call somebody just need some direction that might only take a few minutes but then you also have some of those calls that take hours on end um so it's just projections I know believe me I know it looks like a lot um Christine and I had a very candid conversation and um once again it's just I'm just trying to project Fair um and look uh to the Future that's let's break that down just a little bit so right now we do have a two off we have two we run with two officer minimums is that is that right try to yeah so try to have you know we perfect scenario um you know you want to have X amount out there but when you look at the like training all these other things um some you can control some you can't um but yeah there's once in a while I hate saying how many are out there but once in a while there's um you know not as many as people think fair and this would would this allow us though to get to a minimum of three and and minimum of three meaning there's probably four scheduled and if someone's on vacation there's three is that okay I I like that um identifying that Benchmark um because then you can decide you know based on what's Happening and calls for service like how are we how are we moving that up and and we do look at scheduling and those types of things um you know because there are certain times of the day that we're much more busier you know could be Monday through Friday type of a thing you know there's a lot of people coming into town uh shopping and and uh visiting the lakes and all that kind of stuff and then of course there's other times where it's a little bit more quieter um there might be more serious calls very late at night or uh very early in the morning um but sometimes those calls can take um much more longer to deal with so we we're constantly watching that and uh calls for service and I haven't sent it out to you yet but we actually have a broken down on um and it's not always the same every given day but there are more calls and spikes at different times of the day or weekends right do you think that um so I not so I noticed that the CSO officer is two-part time is there a place for us to while you're kind of while we're kind of building into that additional six officer model over 10 years is there a place for us to backfill that with more CSO support sooner or more instead of part-time full-time is that is there a a mix there that would make sense yeah so it really depends on the size of uh departments that are out there that I've uh looked at and researched um very rarely do you have a CSO um that is actually a full-time and usually if they do in a certain department or a city um usually that CSO uh full-time is actually a um someone more or less overseen almost like a supervisor of the CSO program that might have four or five csos in some departments that are quite large in the um in the state have 14 or 18 CSO part-timers and because correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is an important point they're usually part-time because they're still in school and so this is where the recruitment comes into place because we've kind of got an eye on them before they're even finishing school and going out is that why they're parttime cor okay it's a pipeline roll if we only had a crystal ball yeah and I you know I appreciate the you know between this and also the you know the fire captain position um you know the that's that's critical the only thing that gives me pause of six officers over 10 years is we better start recruiting now like it's it's a it's challenge so um other other points of feedback so I I guess I'm I'm comfortable with the recommended uh 2025 uh positions at this point uh I like you know as far as the the planning manager and Airport Manager I I can see where that makes some sense especially on the code enforcement stuff because we know we've got a lot of issues out there um the other thing that I I'm welcome to see because uh the previous two airport managers my understanding was basically volunteered and the last one Dan UNAM there was none of his time was set aside and pulled from the airport fund so the idea that at least we're being transparent and that money is coming from the airport fund is is important so I yeah and that's shown under the fiscal impact section if you see that that 36,000 is 25% of that planning manager's time up for discussion I just we needed to pull something to start there any other points of feedback okay I think this these conversations are always um the devil's always in the details when we have you know full numbers put together so but I think as far as like initial plan um this looks like a good starting spot right yeah obviously we understand as you go through the budgeting process well things will have to adjust and whatnot but we just needed a starting place so appreciate that yeah and I I just want to say real quick I appreciate the planning you know cuz just thinking back to when we didn't have the 10year um budget and or this and it's was it it it was a whole different world of planning a budget then having a conversation even getting asked questions of hey when is this street going to get worked on or when is this park maintenance going to get worked on or any of that there was no plan to look at and so when we got the budget that was amazing and then even now moving on to this it's you know it might not be if only it could be a yes for everything you know but it comes with the timing and the planning and the budget but it's like as as as long as we have a plan to get started it is so appreciated from our perspective and I can only imagine how helpful it is for staff so just want to say thanks very good any other top any other points of points on this topic Christina anything else you need from us no all right um moving on to um our last discussion it item which is um a consideration of future work session items Christina do you just want to walk us through this sure so mayor and Council this this is a a new communication tool or process if you will um to just keep the council updated on all the requests that I've been tracking that I've been heard whether it be from Council from staff from the public about possible work session items and so I printed out copies up there for you of the I think it was 28 24 28 items um you don't have to provide feedback but certainly if you know if you want to if you want to help us prioritize this otherwise I'm kind of tackling it um in the order that it came in unless things get raised up for some other level um so mainly a Communications tool but open to feedback from any of you on this and we will plan to do this every at every monthly work session right mayor um just to keep you all updated on it so I think um So Christine and I meet weekly to kind of go through agendas and do future agenda planning and needed to develop something like this and then from time to time you know somebody will ask a question on hey we talked about that where is that and so this is just a way of tracking back on you know where are we on you know what we had talked about with you know back in January on um UTV and ATV and you can see that you know we're kind of in process and um certainly what's coming up for future agendas is always kind of the near-term focus but then starting to understand what's already in Pipeline and what what might be coming back to us um is also part of consideration so um I happy to hear feedback of things that should be on this list or things that should not be on this list um and just know that you know it's it's kind of what Christina is using to work off of um from uh you know kind of making sure we're keeping all of the plates spinning and all of the balls in there so um I think having this be part of this meeting at least just distributed before this meeting each month we may or may not talk about it but at least everyone has an opportunity to see and can provide some feedback so any in initial reactions or thoughts I just appreciate the whole list it's you know I know we talk about a lot of things but to see it all on one page it's like wow I you know I would need all that staff right okay that is the end of our planned agenda for this evening um quick welcome back to Jolene we're so glad you're here and glad to have you have you back on board thank you I'm happy to be here I'm excited to get to work very good and um that is the end of our being the end of our plan work session I will entertain a motion to adjourn so moved there's a motion is there a second second motion and a second all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose and we're adjourned thank you everyone [Music]