[Music] all right we are right at 7 o'clock so I'll call tonight's city council meeting to order and uh Christina could we have a roll call please council member Roberts here council member Ericson here council member valento here mayor Bane here I would invite everyone to rise and join us for the Pledge of Allegiance Al to the of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all members of counil we have an agenda before you I would entertain a motion to approve or any changes also move second we have a motion and a second all those in favor signal by saying I I I oppose and our agenda is approved our next item this evening is open Forum open forum is any interested parties opportunity to address Council on any topic of your choosing um I will note that we do not have any um public hearing scheduled on the meeting this evening and so if you would like to address Council open forum is your time to do so I also note that we do have a number of working session discussion topics um when we are upstairs we have become a little bit more informal and taking some level of public comment and engagement during those discussion topics um tonight and now that we are um in a regular council meeting and we are in Chambers we're in a little bit more of a formal environment if we are able to keep it managed I am open to taking some level of council or some level of discussion during those um Workshop topics um but just please um be respectful of the agenda that we have tonight we have a number of topics that we need to go through um anything that's going to require a more detailed work working session um I would move that we would move that agenda item to a another night where we can um give some a topic um the due time um so I am open to taking some brief comments from the public during our discussion period but again just want to be respectful of everyone's time we don't want to be here till curfew at 11:00 tonight and so if there's something that is requiring a fair amount of discussion let's just move it to another night again where we can give it enough time so with that if anyone has any planned comments we are happy to hear them now during open forum is there anyone that is signed up nobody signed up for open Forum okay is there anybody online for open Forum there is not okay with that we will bring um the agenda to council and Council for your consideration tonight are consent agenda items 6A through 6f I would move that we move um consent agenda item 6D which is the approve of the plan in specs and authorized to bid for the Airfield pavement maintenance project I would move that we move that to the regular agenda and then would move that we approve all of the other consent agenda items open to any changes anyone else may have however is there a second a second we have a motion and a second all those in favor of the consent agenda signal by saying I I oppose and consent agenda is approved um next item is um former consent agenda item 6D approv plans and specs and authorized bids I know we have Silas here tonight um I know also that we have um a council that is made up of um newer members and we have not had a lot of airport conversation as a council so just want an opportunity to hear from Silas on the potential on the projects that that's being proposed um just so we can have a little bit more of an active conversation it is typically a consent agenda item but I think it's worth just some additional um consideration so Salis if you don't mind just um kind of walking us through the items that are on the agenda this evening for council's consideration and just want an opportunity to highlight um I'm sorry if we could hold on for just a minute so you had moved 6D off of the consent agenda correct I'm wondering if you didn't mean also or maybe instead 6 e I'm sorry sorry I didn't catch that soon enough yeah no and um you want to so I had intended both okay because I look at them as airport broader airport projects um we have a we have approved 6E um we could resend um we could hear silas's presentation and make a decision after silas's presentation how we would like to proceed um that would maybe be our best course of action if we need to resend the approval we certainly could um if council is open to consideration then we would just consider the approval of the um item 6D which did which was moved that is my error my apologies Council are we okay with that approach all right silus we're really we're really glad you're here thank you Madame mayor and members of council appreciate the opportunity to uh present on two airport projects that are proposed for the Forest Lake airport so I'll start with the uh the Airfield pavement maintenance project so in 2016 the city made a significant investment at the airport which converted the runway which used to be a Turf Runway into a paved Runway 2700 ft in length 75 ft in width associated with the Improvement of Paving the runway was construction of a paved parallel taxiway which allows air craft access to the runway while not restricting use of the runway to other aircraft that are either taking off or Landing so pretty significant Investments for the city um the airport commission at in 2018 then elected to uh pass a resolution for a pavement management plan because what the airport commission wanted to do was make sure that the city was prot protecting the investment that they made in Paving the runway and the taxiway at the airport so Bolton the M supported the airport commission and creating a pavement management plan to keep the pavement in good condition for a minimum of 20 years so the city would not have to complete a reconstruction project of the pavement so the first of those projects uh was completed in 2019 which was a crack repair project which essentially sealed any cracks that had opened up on the surface of the pavement um applied a seal coat to kind of prolong the life of the pavement and then applied new pavement markings the the next project in the series for the pavement uh management plan is a project that's proposed before council tonight for authorization of the plan specs and uh authorization for bid and that's to complete another crack repair project so to go back out there and investigate any of the cracks that have formed since the previous project make sure they're sealed to prevent premature deterioration of the pavement and then also to reseal any of the cracks that were previously sealed under the 2019 project and the intent there is to make sure that the runway taxiway apron and then the hanger taxi Lanes remain in good condition to protect the investment in the Pavements there so how the airport receives funding is through uh mindat Aeronautics uh so being that Forest Lake is an airport that does not receive federal funds so you're limited to the use of State funds in those situations minda provides a higher participation rate for projects at the airport so mindat is proposing to fund the project at a 95% State share and a 5 % local share for the pavement maintenance project and then also the second project uh that I'll discuss here shortly so we've put together the bidding documents we have an Engineers estimate for the project including construction and Engineering of $56,700 of which the local share 5% would be 2,835 so we're proposing to authorize for bid and open the open the projects for bids on May 8th and then subsequently bring the apparent low bidder to council for approval so I'll pause there if any members of council have questions about the pavement maintenance project proposed just quick clarification the the city's portion comes out of the airport fund is that correct I'm not sure the where the share of the city's portion is funded I'll deflect to administrator hand for that thank you uh yes mayor and Council the city's portion comes out of the airport fund thank you that was my only question on on the maintenance plan should move on to talk about the taxiway project sure certainly thank you so the the next project that's also proposed at the airport is an extension of taxiway Alpha 3 and then also an extension of taxy Lane Bravo so in 2020 uh the city completed an airport Master Plan update for the airport which essentially is a road map for planning you know the next the next 20 years of projects at the airp rep report so this was a project completed in conjunction with with mindat Who provided a state Grant to fund kind of the future planning for the projects at the airport um and also was a collaborative effort between city council Pilots of the airport and the state of Minnesota to come together with a comprehensive plan to lay out the future development of the airport through that study there were there were three you know primary uh projects that mindat and the airport commission wanted it addressed immediately one of those projects was completed last year with an expansion of the apron to allow for aircraft to park in a hard surface previously you know aircraft that were visiting the airport had to park in the grass which made it kind of difficult if there was adverse weather conditions you know like today where we had rain in the morning so that project was completed last year with support from mindat the next two projects that were identified is extension of taxiway Alpha 3 so in your packet there's kind of a a map that's kind of showing the project projects it's it's a little bit easier to see on the figure but I'll start with kind of the taxiway Alpha 3 extension so for those of you kind of familiar with the airport the south side of the airport is where all the private hangers are currently constructed uh a couple of years ago there was a large uh hanger also constructed off the main the main apron with the construction of that new hanger there's a lot of congestion to access uh the Airfield so one of the projects that was recommended did through the master plan study was to complete an extension of taxiway Alpha 3 which is on the south end of the runway 31 end of the airport essentially consider this as just providing an alternative access to the runway for the uh the private hanger owners in the South hanger area so that they aren't you know restricted by any aircraft that are either taking on fuel or operating you know at the the large box hanger there so that's a project that was recommended to alleviate congestion and make access to the Airfield uh smoother for a number of Pilots there the other Associated project was that with that is the extension of Taxi Lane Bravo uh kind of moving to the north side of the existing apron and what this project would would do is allow the city to potential to sell uh four additional hanger lots for private hanger owners currently all the available hanger Lots at the airport are leased out and I believe there's a waiting list of over 20 Pilots Desiring to base their aircraft at the Forest Lake airport and in addition construct their own private hanger so with this project will do is is extend a taxi Lane uh 240 ft to the north to allow for the addition of four private hanger lots of which sanitary and water main utilities will be extended to each one of those lots to allow the private hanger owners connection to Water and Sewer so those are the the the other two projects uh that are proposed similar to the pavement maintenance project They will receive 95% State funding 5% local share and the estimated project cost including construction and Engineering is $ 485,577 so similarly I'm requesting Council approval of the plans and specs and authorization to bid uh bids for that project would also be opened on May 8th and then brought before council at the May 13th me at the May 13th meeting for approval of the low bidder so again I'm happy to answer any questions about uh about the taxiway Alpha 3 or taxi Lane Bravo extension projects thank you Council open it up any questions that you may have one go ahead so um when we did the over the the actual Paving of these of the runways there was a issue with a engineering and it was an overrun is there some backup or who picks up if there's any overruns and cost on this is that a split 955 uh like the project itself or does the state pick up more of that or how does that work correct if there are any change orders that occur during construction for either of the projects the city has the ab ability to amend the grant to allow the participation rates to remain so the state would contribute 95% of the any additional cost and then the local share would be 5% for those uh the um the um your staff memo references the ability this project allows for the ability of the extension of the four additional hangers what is the airport um project plan what timeline would does that anticipate for those hangers to be available to be built is that is this the last project that's needed for that sequence to happen or are there additional actions that would need to happen are you uh Madame mayor are you saying in terms of allowing then these hanger lots to be constructed upon yeah so I would anticipate construction of this project if moving forward would be completed uh either in August or September and immediately thereafter the Lots would be available for lease for construction to begin thereafter okay there's no other infrastructure that's needed for that to happen that's this is kind of the missing piece correct this is the missing piece to construct the taxi Lane for them to access their hanger and then extend the utilities and then um just because whenever we're talking about expansion at the airport or um I guess expansion at the airport some um public always ask questions related to aircraft size we're not doing anything on this project that would expand aircraft size right like this is existing planned um kind of aircraft that we see today would be future users even after this project is that right that's correct the size of the aircraft that can operate at Forest Lake is limited to the length of the runway of 2700 ft so this will be likely your single engine aircraft that are your your leisure Travelers that are operating uh around the Forest Lake Area perfect thank you any other questions all right thank you for making the trip trip here we appreciate it thank you um so Council we had previously approved item um 6E and I would move that Council approve consent agenda items 6D is there a second I'll second we have a motion and a second any forur further discussion hearing none all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose and motion carries all right moving into our regular agenda first for council's consideration item 7A accept donation from the American Legion Post 225 for resolution 420 um 48241 and chief Newman mayor members of the council we received a generous donation of $1,000 from the American Legion Post 225 staff recommendation is to accept this donation with gratitude thank you Chief I would move that Council approve resolution 48241 with gratitude is there a second I'll second we have a motion and a second all those in favor signal by saying I I I opposed motion carries next is 7B accept donation from Fairway mechanical DBA Auto Works as part of resolution 48242 and also chief mman mayor members of the council we received this donation from Force Lake Fairway mechanical doing business as Force Lake autow Works staff recommendation is to accept this donation with gratitude as well thank you Chief I would move that Council approve resolution 48242 with gratitude is there a second second we have a motion and a second all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose motion carries next for consideration Council 7c which is the 2025 budget calendar Kevin how are we at budget time already um mayor and City Council Members that's exactly what I was going to say uh even though we just started 2024 staff has already started to look at the 2025 budget and plan out that schedule um an important piece of that is this budget calendar it lays out the expectations not only for uh the city council but also staff so everyone's aware all the timelines that need to be met based on giving staff sufficient time to get the document pulled together and also meeting the required dates of the county and state as we work through that so what we're looking for uh the council tonight is this in is approval of the budget calendar and any input that you have on that as well as what budget Direction uh you would like to give to staff tonight as well um based on what the staff prepared last year and was approved by city council looking at our 10-year plan um that Levy that projected Levy increase was about 14 uh percent so what staff is looking for is is is city council so comfortable with that with that as a starting point when we are looking at the 2025 budget and also if there is there any um suggestions that they have on the budget calendar as presented um just to note currently um where we're at is next week we will be presenting a long range plan on Staffing and then on May 20th at a workshop is when we would like to have that direction from Council on their list of priorities for what you would like to see in that preliminary budget so we have time to incorporate that with our long-term plans as it relates to streets equipment Parks staffing needs and other needs of the city to get um ready for that preliminary budget that's presented in August um also this to keep on City Council Members Minds is we would like to know if you would like to hold another budget um open house as you did last year in November last year just given the timing of when that was decided to happen it was a little bit of a crunch to get that completed so the sooner we know that um if that's something we want to plan for it it makes it more efficient planning and can get that worked into our calendar um so with that like I said we're just looking for input on the budget calendar and approval of that as well as Direction on the 2025 budget that the city council has thank you Kevin Council should we start maybe with the easier of the questions which is the calendar um thank you for providing this level of detail Kevin um Council as you look at the process that is being proposed um topics by day um I'm open to feedback that you may have I thought the calendar looked good I think it looks good too yeah I I would agree I welcome the the heads up on this that didn't happen last year so this it's good yeah I would I would agree um I also you know the question around the budget Workshop Workshop or the the workshop the budget open house um I I um I feel that while I could say if you if you look at the number of meetings that are on on our calendar between now and then there's certainly a lot of opportunity for public input and public engagement however in experience we know that um there is a lot of moving pieces in those conversations and it's really not until September and then into the fourth quarter that we have have a full picture of what's actually being proposed and kind of top priorities and so for those reasons to have an opportunity to do that presentation to the community I think is valuable um now I hope the community is plugged in as we go and providing feedback but again to do the Topline conversation um I I feel like last year's meeting was a little later than maybe what would be preferable and so if we could plan for even some I don't September maybe a little early but that in from a timeline perspective of when we are approving having that level of feedback as we are considering that preliminary Levy might be a bit optimistic on timeline but certainly in October um once we've done the preliminary Levy um maybe we're talking mid to late October would be a better timeline than um you know as late as we did it last year it's it it's hard to have that public until Council has made a decision and has reached consensus it's hard to have the the um a workshop of here's what the proposal is but after we've done that preliminary Levy I think is a great time to at least Workshop or to um have the open house on what's included in the preliminary Levy and that certainly can help to kind of inform council's kind of next versions of that conversation as we drive towards for formal adoption so a lot of words to say October is that where we sounds good Kevin does that timing work for you if we mayor that timing does work not necessarily was looking for answer on that um open house but just wanted to get get it on the radar for that but it does seem like the general consensus is that we want to schedule that and I I agree last year it was a little late just putting that together we want opportunity if we go that direction to not only hear feedback from uh the citizens of Forest Lake but also then provide feedback between staff and council members from what they heard there as well so given that timeline that makes a lot more sense on on uh in my opinion as well so um unless I hear otherwise we will plan on getting that scheduled and uh communicate that out when we feel a good time to do that will be on to the trickier part of the conversation feedback as far as um starting spot for Levy and again this is a very preliminary conversation this I if I can you know speak from experience this is kind of a gut check on what's the mindset going into budget season um and certainly looking at the projected levies that were planned as part of the 10-year plan is a good starting spot um open to feedback that Council may have well I mean we worked very hard last year to land where we did which was significantly higher than anything we've done in recent history um I think this is a good starting spot um we know we knew going into last year that there were some major things that you know we as a body and as a city needs to do and that hasn't changed um and so you know I fully expect that we'll see some revisions to this um but I think it's I'm fine with it as a starting point good feedback other points of consideration I'm good with it as a starting point I think I me we have to start somewhere and with the 10 uh 10year financial plan being relatively new for the city um and as we worked super hard on the budget last year I since that is the starting point for this year I would like to stick with that just so that we can even remind ourselves of the conversations from last year see where we ended up how that impacted the how we got to this number from last year and just continue that conversation forward I would agree yeah the one the one is I look at the tenure plan the one thing that so we had originally when we passed the preliminary Levy the thought the mindset was we know this is going to be a spike so let's make it a spike so that future years we don't need to continue a plateau and I'm a little concerned that we do have a plateau developing in that the you know the number for 2025 is one thing but that actually goes up in current projections for 2026 and so I think that's part of what I I think what we need to wrap our heads around is are we comfortable with this three-year Plateau number or um because then after the plateau then numbers do come down nicely um and I know we've we've got a lot of work to do but I think kind of looking ahead to what is the trajectory um is part of what we need to keep our eye on so I think it's a good place to start um I'm a little concerned with us projecting out um that level without having clear and this is also where that 10year plan comes in have the conversations about the projects that are in that 10-year plan um some of them are in the room tonight frankly um to just really continue to evolve so that we're not just talking about a percentage but we're talking about actual timing of projects and things in the ground um I think helps us to um get comfortable on what the right timing is and so a lot of words to also say I think this is a good place to start any other points of feedback related to budget Kevin Christina everybody does that give you what we need to get started uh yes it does fantastic all right moving into our um Workshop topics oh I'm sorry we do have one more one more action item and that is 7D consideration of housing legislation resolution which is resolution 48243 and I believe Christina May and Council we've brought it up a couple times during our reports here over the last month about legislation that um is uh being proposed and moving through various committees down at the capital that would increase densities require multif family housing in commercial areas not allow us to have parking requirements um and a and a bunch of other things that um intends to make housing more affordable but um certainly takes some of the decision-making Authority away from local governments um and can shift some of the cost burden um onto our current residents and so um as a number of other cities are doing I've prepared in your packet a resolution um that would support retaining Forest Lakes zoning Authority but also you know look recognizing that we need to work with the state on constructive policy alternatives to incentivize and bolster City efforts for addressing housing challenges and advocating for a city-state partnership to consider reforms that are proven to address housing availability and affordability and that that ensures efforts can be locally LED and shaped um so with that I will take any questions I know we've talked about this a few times I know that they'll you know as the legislature continues to do their work things are always evolving and so we tried to very purposefully have a a generic if you will um uh resolution that doesn't C out any specific bills or specific initiatives but just that idea that decision- Mak should be held here in the local community um public hearings as you're often um used to hearing which at one point in time was something they were going to the legislature proposed taking away so that there wouldn't even be that opportunity to have conversation um we heard late last week this effort may be dead in the house but you never know what happens with Omnibus bills as we get towards the end of session and so for those reasons I would still recommend that you um adopt this resolution tonight and we can send this off to our state legislators thank you Chris Council any questions on the resolution that is proposed tonight or any follow-up feedback no just grateful that you drafted it in pretty quick order and it's it's um yeah it's critical for local cities to be able to retain that control yeah I would I would Echo and I would hope that this is an area where the legislature does not remove or lessen um local government's ability to make these types of decisions it's certainly something we take very seriously here within Forest Lake we have great public engagement to help us guide and shape what's needed for Forest Lake um and also appreciate that this is Broad enough that um I I think these are just foundational principles that I'm happy to support tonight any other points of conversation ready for a motion if anyone's ready I'll move that we pass resolution 48243 I'll second you have a motion in a second any further discussion hearing none all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose and motion carries okay with that we are going to move into um the discussion portion of our agenda this evening um this is going to be a more informal working session of council anything that we talk about on tonight on these topics this evening that require official action will actually come back before Council for um on an official agenda for official vote so we will be much more informal in our approach and I am happy to as we're talking about topics take very limited public comment but again let's um keep an eye on the clock and be respectful of time this evening with that are we ready for our first Workshop topic all right our first Workshop topic is um the M Health annual update and chief Newman mayor and Council uh since or June 1st 2020 M Health has been our service provider for ambulance service in force sake and uh surrounded communities uh every year after June 20 or 2021 they've been in to provide an annual report of the services that they provide so tonight we have uh Chief Edmonson and deputy chief Kane here to provide you their annual update perfect in your packet you'll have a copy of the operational report very good thank you welcome the podium is yours thank you madam May and Council uh as you said my name is Tom Edon I'm the chief of EMS foral Fairview and Kevin Kane is our district chief for what we call our Northern Region uh so as you may know our Northern Region consists of Forest Lake Centerville Hugo Wyoming lynville or sorry Lynwood I don't know why I say in lynville and Scandia uh so you should have the presentation in front of you it's I apologize in advance it's kind of boring as far as our numbers Kevin gets to do the more exciting stuff and talk about our involvement in the community uh so I the task of giving you the boring details um so if you look at our entire PSA in this region last year from January 1st to the end of December we had a total of 4,910 overall 911 requests which equates to about 13.45 calls per day in that 911 area uh going through this list it's the same for both our our region and I'll break it down for just Forest Lake for you as well but if you look at this total number you could see we provided and gave a lot of mutual Aid to our surrounding communities as well um we gave 406 Mutual Aid calls and we received a total of 216 calls for Mutual Aid um breaking this down we did make it to the scene 4,445 times and i' like to show the total number or percentage of our emergency transports that's transporting to the hospital lights and Sirens it kind of gives you the idea of the Acuity of the patients that we're seeing and our number is relatively low uh at 6.3% of the transports were emergent breaking this down we show it by response type which again it's kind of boring but alpha bravo charlie delta Echo is the international emergency medical dispatching breakdown of calls we respond to alphas and Bravos with outl and Sirens we do a lot of work to try to reduce the amount of times we turn those lights and sirens on because it is dangerous to ourselves and the community we serve um and then charlie delta and eeko are emergent responses those are the calls we initially start out responding lights and Sirens although that may be upgraded or downgraded uh throughout the response overall in that that PSA we had a a mergent response and that's again just lights and Sirens of 8 minutes and 20 seconds on average and then all of our 911 calls together we're at 8 minutes and 53 seconds the next page is really what you probably care about is just the city of Forest Lake you can see the overall calls were significantly lower uh at 2,131 which is about 5.8 per day um we did get canceled prior to our arrival 123 times we used Mutual Aid 90 times and as we talked about in our last slide there you can see the number of mutual Aid we provide to surrounding communities directly impacts how many times we call for Mutual Aid as well um we did make it to the scene 1,944 times and again showing that emergent uh transport was at 81 or 6.1% uh again there's a breakdown there if you really like the numbers of our emergent versus non-emergent but the the mean potatoes of it there is really our response times our emergent response time to the city of forest lake was 6 minutes and 36 seconds on average and our overall time was at 7 Minutes flat um and this was again from January 1st to the end of December I know this report if you start to add up the numbers you may not get the right ones because we show December of 2022 just as a relation to December of 23 but those weren't included in the totals and I'll let Kevin kind of go through some of the uh much more fun stuff for you thank you uh mayor Bane and the city council thank you for having us this evening so um as Chief Newman said we've been up here in this area since June of 2020 um and since then I think almost without uh any any uh meetings Miss we've been meeting with uh Chief Newman as well as the Forest Lake Police Department uh to go over this these numbers and talk about any concerns or issues that we may have um but as uh Chief Edmonson just discussed you know the 911 calls is just a portion of what we do and really the the involvement with the community is is a large uh portion of it as well uh so I want to highlight some of those items um you know we we have a we participate with the safety Camp um every single year we we come out with our ambulances our uh facility dog Clayton uh who's not with me right now I apologize um and uh and show those kids like kind of what what our trucks do and and to not be or scared when they see us out in public um we do offer trainings to the police department and Fire Department free of charge um so that uh their their medical trainings are taken care of through M Health um we also do uh a lot with the Fourth of July festivities in Forest Lake so we uh are involved with planning that up Staffing and making sure that goes smooth and safe for everybody so uh any questions for us any questions um response times year-over-year what direction are we heading and anything we can do to help you with that or any any any trends that worth noting yeah I could take that um so our response times I believe have gone down slightly year-over-year uh we look at that um I don't have the numbers with me so I apologize I didn't come prepared for that uh but we do constantly look at the Times our total responses both in Forest Lake and for our whole PSA and we make tweaks to our deployment our staffing model and our locations that we staff um as needed as they come up so we make drastic changes to that um as we need to we do uh also we just implemented a new software last year so we've been alive for a year on it now so it's basically been collecting data and it uses artificial intelligence to really do call predictivity um so it will show us and predict where those call volumes will be um that part is just on it's turned live actually beginning of this month and it's just in a testing phase right now and we hope to implement that and start uh kind of posting our truck slightly different to where the predicted calls will be so it is very near and dear to us and we look at that every pretty much every month on how we can improve very good thank you Council any other questions we may have just a quick comment this topic comes up every time we're talking about fire Staffing so our um part partnership is really really important you are a critical part part to us maintaining our paid on call model on the Fire side we would look our budget conversation would look much different if you weren't here doing this work so we appreciate it so thank you thank you madam Mary and Council yes appreciate it all right we are ready for our next Workshop topic which is discussion on the Veterans Memorial and Jamie thank you mayor Bay and Council um I'm here tonight to talk about the Veterans Memorial project we um have a committee here in Forest Lake that um we do have a couple members here in person and one virtually um representing the Veterans Memorial committee I serve on the committee as our staff liaison and work with the committee um guiding any discussion that involves staff relating to the project so I'm just going to go over a quick background for um people that are here tonight and then just kind of talk a little bit about kind of where we're at with the project and some feedback from Council to guide next steps so just a little bit of background um the Veterans Memorial committee was um started in 2008 and has been selling pavers throughout the years um the sale of the pavers you can order a small or large P um those pavers get installed at Lakeside Memorial Park the revenue that we've been generating through the paver sales um has been in a restricted account um it's a the city is the Fiscal Agent for this group so we've been holding onto the money and have had about $65,000 in Revenue over the years um as council is aware from our last time talking about this last November um the group did seek out funding from the state and received um some significant funding from the state $250,000 um through the bonding Bill and $100,000 in the Legacy fund so that was a really big win for this committee to really you know have some substantial substantial funding to really kind of get this project um you know to that finish line that has been in in works for a long time so um that has kind of necessitated this conversation of where do we go next and one of the um where we're at right now is we're really looking at the Loc of the project as we've have this larger funding source um we've put a preliminary budget together of about $450,000 but as we've continued these conversations the area at Lakeside Memorial Park that has been designated for this project um for several years and was included in the downtown revitalization plan um would require some underground water relocation for the project so that was something that we identified as we've continued to move forward in this project um with that comes a you know a hefty price tag of about $130,000 to do that underground um utility work for the project to remain in that desired location so where we are at um the committee along with staff over the last few months have really evaluated that Premier location um and we have considered three alternative locations so we've met recently um included in the packet you'll see the four different location that we've reviewed and analyzed as a potential other location for the veterans memorial project um as you can see in the um staff memo here you know option one is the original location right off of the roundabout um which has been approved in the downtown plan we do have an option two which would be essentially that same area but if we reduce the size of the project and offset it just a little bit we can um you know we've we could potentially have it fit there um but it would would require reducing the overall project size and kind of off setting it from the downtown roundabout um that is an option we've looked at the third option we discussed was the city of forest lake property which is on the corner of Broadway Avenue West and Highway 61 um you'll see there there's a pack u a parcel that is city property um there were some benefits of that location however the committee really feels that this is a memorial for Lakeside Memorial Park and that it really should be in the park so um not not the most desirable location for the from the committee perspective and then option four um is an area on the other side of the park closer to the boat launch which you can see in the packet um there would not be any private utilities there that would require um any additional cost or work associated with that um so those are the four options that we've reviewed as a committee and with staff and again as stated um previously you know the committee still really prefers option one that location that's been intended for a long time again it's already approved as part of the downtown plan um it's really well established people have been the pavers have been installed at that site for a long time people know that's the Veterans Memorial site um it's most visible from the downtown area and it's just really a central area and the in part of the intent with this Memorial is not only for people to come there to memorialize um you know one of their family members but it's also to provide an educational opportunity for the community so people that might just be to the park with family or from out of town or with children seeing this Memorial and to have that be an educational opportunity and that's really a good location for that um in closing before I turn it over to discussion um you know option one is definitely the preferred option two and four are certainly for discussion um but they would really like it to be in the park so we're not really too excited about option three at the moment um the last piece for tonight so the first part of the the council discussion will be's the location and weighing in on some conversation there the second part of this tonight is really the financial contribution or potential support from the city for this project um as stated the project budget is around $450,000 um the cost to relocate the water line is about 130,000 but there's also more costs for construction management documents so estimated at about $200,000 for the work associated with the water line relocation so that would be construction documents engineering cost managing the project and the actual like relocating of the water line as well so with that um the questions are issues before Council which location or do you have any comments or feedback for staff or the commission the committee on the location of the project and if there would be you know some discussion on financial support of the Veterans Memorial project you will see the fiscal impact um and some recommendations from staff on where that funding could come from um again that's just a a high level recommendation at this time if this would be something that the council would be favorable to or open to discuss it would then impact the 10-year financial plan and that would need to be modified for some of those projects we've had slated in for 2025 and Beyond so we would need to look at that so with that being said um happy to take any questions otherwise I'd like to turn it over for Council for a discussion thank you thank you Abby uh I said Abby that's okay sorry um as we are considering um Council has just open it up for any questions that we may have for Jamie um I'm sure ab's happy to weigh in as well um any questions you may have as we before we kind of dive into individual yeah just just a couple um in option one option one versus option two um you noted that going to option two it reduces the diameter to 40 feet what's the current model in option one what size is that um I think it was around just under 60 so I think it was in like 50 was it 50 55 58 ft diameter I believe it was we're getting a nod so Ron is it I believe it was just under 60 feet so and as noted with option two um Dave Adams Public Works director did okay this um reduction in size but there would be this 3ot encroachment which isn't ideal but it is definitely something that they would be comfortable with so it there is that component to it and if you if we would go with that route and then if if option two were the direction we went what is what is the ask what's the cost are we looking at are we alleviating any costs um if there was option two it would not require the water line relocation so the $130,000 for that portion of the project we would then just be looking at roughly 70,000 for construction documents engineering construction management kind of that bucket of work and that's for the memorial itself where regardless of where it's at correct okay can somebody um spell out a little bit more in a little bit more meaningful way what's our impact of that three-foot encroachment like what is that what is that that do for us or not do what does that prohibit when we uh put a water line and we want 10 ft on each side this would shrink it down to seven we could repair it with a a box to do to do the repairs but typically we wouldn't want encroachment so I mean like that's what I said it that 3 ft would be the most we'd allow but we could still get down to the water M but typically we W want that within 10 ft of the main are you able to do any future work with the same equipment or would it require future equipment modifications it would require a trench box we just have to put a trench box on that southide to do that work um I don't think it would limit it but we don't want any more going into there I think that's like in my memo it said that's the most we would allow before we would consider that getting into the ement so I think the fair trade that we let them get into that but not any farther than that before youd have to relocate okay thank you other questions before we open up a specific gentlemen is there anything you'd like us to consider at this time or any additional comments you'd like to make to council happy to always happy to hear your thoughts the item or location number one is definitely the the most preferred you know when you look down the sight line of Broadway uh coming down to the lake think about the lake and you're looking at this and then behind this is the restroom area and of course there's the big lake when you're going down 61 when you're going down 61 from North and South how many places along there can you see the lake very very very few you know especially when the leaves are there so that is a prime spot when you get the Broadway and and 61 that's a prime spot to to look that way and and this way you're going to see a memorial and it's a memorial that you can look through to see the water on the other side um so one thought in my mind is the the bathrooms it's great to have bathrooms here where the where the bath you know the beaches whatever that makes sense but if there's going to be another bathroom or whatever uh think about the boat launch and the um the rental places there for boats we want people to come off the lake and not pee in the lake so in other words there should be a bathroom that's close to where they are by a boat launch is is so if there's another one or or whatever um can be whatever size you want to do it and then the other part about that for that location number um four uh um of being in the boat launch area is that is a big open area that if someday there's going to be an Amphitheater or something else there there's all kinds of things that we could city-wise we could put there that would make a lot of sense to be there versus the memorial where everybody can see it and you can still see the still see the lake so so that's that's that um and then related to that you know it's it's okay let's go ahead and spend the money and let's put it in the right place in the right time and and all and get it the best mark fman my opinion and I do have those um the location we chose originally is the best location the most logical location it's worth fighting for and it's worth investing in and there's a rationale behind that we can dig into that but I I'd like you to just take a moment to think about the park in total and its future potential if you want to realize the future potential we can follow even the lead of the planners that came and did a report on the whole downtown downtown section uh they made two points about the park probably the only two Salient points they made was that essentially if you did move the bath house you don't have to do it now I would say keep it alive until you make a decision about it but there's another logical Central utility oriented position for it to be in central to the park just has to be talked about you have a chance to begin the brand new story with that and follow a the national park kind of model where they take these seasonal things and they make them concise and they make him personality oriented you have a chance for a New Horizon there and when you free up that spot it's just not an object between two sides of a park anymore you have this large panoramic view of a park and that will enhance and expand the sense of that Park dramatically go on down to the North End take advantage again of the other Planter's thoughts someday maybe you want to take a load off the lake and maybe you would take over that territory that's now the public land The Landing maintain access to drive onto the lake but put that into the park gain all of that potential that now the park could have make the amphitheater there do something there it's an activity that draws people through the park that all makes sense and so the site that we're choosing is is fundamentally on the east west access of the north south access that the park sets up and pay attention to Geometry sometimes it makes a lot of sense we that position it's hard to pick that one position where you slide over to the plaza building and try and fit it into a space that's very constrained and we're pressing on the plaza building it's a very formal building that's got a front that demands a certain amount of side width on both sides we can stay in the original position and if we do the right things there we can be ready for the future by new utility lines and other things that might happen to be more refreshed than the old ones that are sitting there essentially we're tied to the city you are our partners because it's public land and you have to administer or construction manage the project all the way through you're our bank because we need to funnel all the money through you folks but right now we have sufficient money liquid money I I failed to follow the price Ts that I hear around here because on the public side or private side of life they just don't exist at that level it's a small project in terms there's only a few vendors and a few things to accomplish does it require all the kind of monies we're talking about here I don't think so we have about liquid $160,000 that we can hire the city we can hire the contractors you have to hire them but we can essentially pay for that not coming out of your today's budget not worrying about that and we can take care of all the under ground work and we can be positioned where we should properly be positioned and then we're talking about something that is really noteworthy to do something noteworthy you got to put it in the right spot and if you want it to be noteworthy I don't expect you to buy into our design at this point because we're evolving we stopped when we hit all the headwinds about whether utilities were going to stop us or we had to move to a different location so we've stopped the design at that point but the design can be significant like other cities that invest Ed in to make theirs significant we have a um a um um what would you call it we have a a quest beyond that we have a our idea based on the Veterans Memorial is a significant idea that would demand a significant investment and if you don't have the significant idea then the investment doesn't follow so I think we can partner up for this first phase get that done we already have half the budget necessary for the second phase we just can't get at it until we finish that next phase so we're ready to go out there and fun drive and pick up the rest of the cash so we don't have to come beholding on the city for much of anything except Administration and Banking and yes we would love you to participate in some fashion as an investor but it's worthwhile to make it great in that one position that's the great position and not mess around with trying to put some constrained animal someplace else uh that's my pitch on this whole thing I hope you can believe in it even though you haven't seen it yet you've seen the core idea which can get smaller and work differently but it still requires a magic moment that has to be developed and when that comes along I think you can put your hearts behind it more than we expect you to do right now we just want that position on site we'll pay for it and get you there and then we'll pick up the rest of the bill if we have to we haven't started our funding drive yet officially so so give us that opportunity but give us a site we can work with thank you Council um so couple questions on on the agenda for us this evening one is around location and second is around Financial impact um should just open up convers conversation around um location thoughts well my thought is I kind of alluded to and asking those earlier questions it's either one or two in my mind I don't think makes sense to go down to the North End of the park um interfere with potential plans down there and certainly youd need to keep it at Lakeside Memorial Park um and I think um based on Mr finman's um presentation I feel like the ask is a little different than maybe what was in the packet um felt like the ask was are we willing to commit $200,000 to make this project happen and it might sounds like it might be less than that it's more about hey can we get going on this um and so I guess my opinion I'd like to see it at preferably one two is a back backup um and you know really be exploratory on ways that we can make that work thank you for that good great perspectives other thoughts so I I would agree with uh council member Ericson on the location that that is the right location I'm challenge a little bit on the size just based on having to make this infrastructure change uh so the question would be to Ryan and and Dave is there long-term benefits where we'd have to do some you know to to Mr finman's Point make some changes to that line or upgrade it at some point where we're going to be spending this money at some point regardless or is this main that's in there good for 30 40 years or any other water improvements or anything I don't know if there's any storm water you know anything that can be done to make it worth this you know big move to to make that main Move May and Council just to answer that a question that was or a comment that was brought out earlier is the beos it can't be moved um there's only that one spot of cery in that whole entire park and it has the electricity the irrigation and the water all coming into it so that it's not just pick up the building and move that so it sounds great pick up a building and move it but that I mean you're talking hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to relocate that that Beil that has nothing to do with this right now but I'm just saying that that's that's a financial question later on um as far as the water line I would recommend if they want that bigger size that you move it because it's probably 80s or 90s that it was put in um the East Broadway probably was 2005 so that connected the old line but that old one is older when is anything replaced there's a a line replaced at WS Fargo 5 years ago that was stamped 1929 so I can't tell you when it's going to break but you just don't want it to break underneath a $500,000 Monument that was just put up I can't predict when that's going to happen so and that's been related to you know Ron and Mark to is that we don't want that to happen we don't we don't want you to build over top of it and then what happens when there's water coming out of the ground and then we got to fix it so yeah it could it could break tomorrow or it could break in 200 years and that statue or that Memorial could be replaced once time over but I don't know when that happens but just planning you don't want to build anything over top of a water main if you don't have to roads yes because you can dig them up you can patch them back in but a memorial with pavers and all that I mean when you start tearing into it it's you're tearing into it so um that's my recommendation is if if you're going to do that full size you have to relocate option two is you can fit it without causing the city any cost no sidewalk Replacements no fiber com removal anything maybe offc centered I mean that's that's the option we we found that would would fit in there the bigger option is it's not the water line but there is fiber in common there too that will have to get moved is that is that contemplating this cost in the in the it is not um The Hope is that the common fiber provider would move that at their cost depends on when they put it in if it's under 5 years then usually the city would pay for that if it's over 5 years then the they would pay for it that hasn't been explored quite yet because we haven't been to that down that road of exactly where we don't want to start asking them to move stuff if they don't need to move it yet just another question for for either one of you uh so when you talk about a second phase I we're at we're at 550,000 are you what is the in totality what is the cost this or what do you what's the budget or what do you think does it depend on what the fundraising piece is di dictates this the size and the and how big this gets in many ways we're footprint heavy because we've got this p idea that takes a certain amount of territory to do but that's a lowrise structure the thing that really that pushes the envelope is probably this fundamental piece that's in the middle that is intended to be impressive I would put the budget at something like 550 to 600,000 total counting all the money we've already got so far we got 400 so far we got to go out and hustle up 150 to 200 uh more thousand and I think that would allow us to have the flexibility to go for something that's a big idea instead of look at what the other cities have done I mean you don't want to put up something mediocre you want to put up something strong so I'm holding the budget to that degree so that we can get there we will Design back to whatever we can afford and where the budget tells us to go and we can do that but right now the aspirations are there and the the mission is what I was looking for before the mission is a great one and the mission wishes to be fulfilled so we're trying to do our best to get there the right way and council member Roberts if if I may add on to that um so the next steps in this process um we have a very preliminary bu and as um Mr fman had stated $550 to $600,000 the next step in this is really fine-tuning that and part of the prior to doing that the location is important and necessary to have you know determined so that we know the size that we're working with we can then move forward into next steps with like specific quotes um we've gotten some preliminary estimates but the next step would be the design to work within that confines of that space so if it's option one then we can continue forward with the Design Concepts and have more detailed quotes to finalize the budget um or if it's option two and it's scaled down to 40 foot that's going to change the the concept plan for the design element so we're at this point where we need some of that direction so we can continue with the design of the project maybe modify it if needed based on the size of the the project in the location selected and then as part of that it's really determining that final budget and that's where we're at and we could certainly um you know sounds like tonight council's most favorable to the option one or two um the committee is really in favor of option one a really you know a Next Step could be you know moving forward with that final budget if there's kind of that Council blessing or support of that location um I think the committee given location option one that obviously that does come with that additional cost so you know I think some of the consensus or feedback from Council is you know if or what down the road where will there be any support so whether it's you know you heard phase one or phase two so maybe phase one is the relocating the water line and that's funded through the veterans committee up front or you know then later will there be Council support financially for like the construction management you know if or what is there an appetite of council um the grant funding is through 2027 is when it expires so we're not in an urgent like necessarily the 2025 budget or a portion for the 2025 budget or a portion for 2026 so you know I think just in general is there somewhere in this project over the next couple of years some appetite or support from the city and if so what would that look like and I think we could figure out later on maybe what that amount or contribution from the city could be I think there's just some feedback of would if or would there be Council support if that helps clarify one one thing to add on to um going on with Jamie is saying is since we do have that the the Grant and then the Legacy funds we can that money could be used for The Upfront money so in other words the the direct cost for the city could be later on I mean other than the the full staff that are going to be helping out with the construction whatever but uh other than that uh so anyway one of the um couple couple of things I have a little bit of heartburn over um the charge coming from the water fund I I feel like yes it's water infrastructure that we're building but the root cause is not necessarily A need of our Water Project i' Feel would feel differently if this was rooted in are we solid that this has to be a water fund funded project or is is there some flexibility there U mayor there there is some flexibility there uh that was my recommendation to put in there from the water water fund I put the water Fund in there for the sole purpose of water the water fund pays for water infrastructure and moving a water even though it's moving a water line it is still a new water line which would there extend the useful life life of this main if this water main needed to be reconstructed next year that funding would come from the water fund so that was my logic in proposing the water fund but yes there the funding can really come from any source that uh Council would want to it's not restricted to the water fund it it could be the park fund for example it could be the general fund for example it just when looking at it from how water infrastructure is funded that's the purpose of the water where if you start pulling from those other funds and now becomes how are we going to fund for that deficit and those funds to for those long-term visions of those funds where those funds come from what I hear in this project is what's needed is some Financial leadership and some Financial commitment from the city that if fundraising efforts don't come through that we're ultimately going to back the project that's being proposed and I can appreciate the you know very much a chicken and egg conversation between design and cost and what needs to happen and I appreciate we just need some Catalyst to move forward um I just also want to recognize I think we need to make the point that this project financially is you know there's a base of support that has been fundraised over many years from the Veterans Memorial committee and the great work that they've done then there was a catalyst that was um kind of approved last year in the state legislature um through leadership of Representative Detmer and members of the committee and others to give this grant access that the city is holding on behalf of the committee um along that same legislative lines the city was the recipient of a lot of State dollars we received funding for Eureka Avenue we re we received funding for the Southwest area um storm water project and there is if you look at the burden that was eased off of our 10-year plan we're talking millions and millions of dollars that are now funded by the state and so it seems a reasonable tradeoff to me that we find a way to bring the Gap here on this if it's $200,000 $250,000 I feel like we should do that because again we received so much in those again unrelated project dollars let's be clear but same funding source coming from the state on in particular Eureka Avenue which would have been a complete City funded project but for those dollars and so I again I feel like we should be a partner in this project no matter what but then also just given the amount of Grant monies and you know um State funds that we were provided we really need to be a good partner here and kind of bridge the gap and provide that stability now I'm still optimistic either through fundraising or through some design that we can if there's an option to avoid the $120,000 to move a water line I think we'd all be in favor of that if that is the only option let's make this project happen so I just I I'm happy to support it tonight I feel that we need to kind of take those next steps to be able to get further into the design phase and if that's if that means what you need from us is some level of financial underwriting um I think we should give that um also I would also encourage you know continued fundraising and let's try to make sure this isn't a too big of a burden on the water fund or whatever fund is going to have to bridge that Gap but um let's be clear we're sitting in a much better financial position as a city overall because of some State action that we should be able to bridge this so may I please um design a in the spot one and design B in spot two are two different animals totally um so what we really do need to understand is what's our site we want it to be a specific site and we're willing to buy down that opportunity as much as we possibly can so you don't have to think about your budget this year and do much about that at all you just have to do some Sweat Equity and help us through this process of banker and administrator and it's just not that complicated an idea and so after that we still have a good Reserve fund sitting there and we're going to go out and get more funds so I don't know that we're asking the city for all that much other than we're hoping to have you participate to Lo take the load off of the fundraising but I believe this community can come up with a couple hundred thousand doll absolutely and mayor Bay I think to um you know this will be coming back and probably more than once because of the nature of being the partner on public property and the park downtown um so I think for purposes of tonight the location was the the big driving factor of you know getting a little more reassurance on that option one and I think I appreciate your comments too of you know once we continue moving forth with design and fundraising and putting together that final budget you know the intent is for the committee to be able to fund raise and continue to seek out grant funding dollars but if there got to be that point of you know bringing it back to council the full budget we I think that would be an appropriate next step to see the Financial part and so mayor and counil if I could um CU I'm the one that asked to bring this to the council after my first meeting with the committee um back in January or February and I'm am a little bit lost listening to the conversation because the reason it's here is because um we had challenges over location which you seem to have solved um but then we had challenges over who was paying to move the water main and Mr Miller had shared with me that the city committed to him back in 2009 or sometime that they would do that and there was um differences of opinion between committee members and staff and so I do think um there needs to be some level of financial discussion here tonight if for no other reason then our next step will be at the next council meeting to bring bring back a resolution to memorialize whatever Direction you give tonight because it's just gotten lost and confusing over the years right so um Jamie is right I'm hearing I'm hearing option one seems to be the one that that council's supportive of but I don't want to get wishy-washy on this funding thing and then we come to a standstill again at the committee level um so even if it's you know if if the position is tonight we're not willing to contribute to or you know at this time we're not willing to contribute to the the cost of moving the water main that we expect that to be funded through the committee they can always come back later if there's other costs I just it this has been really challenging for me in just the last couple months here because we can't get um a clear consistent Direction on where we're moving to try and get this done and so that's the background of why it's on here even as a week and a half ago the $200,000 number was what came out of from the committee members so I'm I'm not sure what happened between then and tonight where they're they're saying there's nothing um and that's great if they if they don't think there needs to be that support or maybe it's just the the general engineering construction documents construction management stuff that that we could at least go on record as saying the city would cover those costs and um could come out of the park Capital uh Improvement fund um or general fund wherever you know you you so wish it to be um the last thing that I just want to mention the mayor brings up a great point about all the millions of dollars that we got from the state legislature last year but remember your 10-year plan that you approved last year didn't have any of that in there so any additional funding will increase those numbers so I just want to make sure that we're all on the same page as far as where we're at for things so sorry to make it more more complicated but um want to make sure folks understand those couple of things so really you know the the location and some level or and again it can always change in the future but where is it tonight so that they can get going with the design and if they've got the money in the bank to be to be moving the water M and start that process um maybe there's not that contribution tonight doesn't mean they can't come back later or you can give some direction to put $100,000 in the park Capital Improvement fund and and we can use that for whatever needs might come up or or whatnot but I think it would be really helpful for um um to help staff keep this project moving forward in conjunction with the committee members if we know what the city's role is going to be thank you other thoughts on kind of financial commitment or well I'll just say that I prefer option one I think it's um I the memorial has been there for such a long time and then I think also that it is a state people within our community and community members paying forth within that to make that a memorial there and then the conversation for the new one has been a long time coming as well and so I think if we are going to have a memorial in this community and and redo the the memorial I think we should do it right and I think just the alignment the spacing I think um visually option one is preferable in my mind um and then when it comes to the uh funding for the water main relocation I'm favorable towards putting money towards that so other I guess I'm not sure if it's money will be used for the water mains that has to come out of the water fund or it might be on the back end coming out of parks I think the real ask is what's the number we're willing to commit to is it 70 is it 200 is it somewhere in the middle at at this point I'd be willing to say half split split the differ whatever whatever that comes to it's we've got some skin this is a city park it's an amenity to this to the city we've got most of the funding from the state um which you know is taxpayers money but I I would be comfortable that not saying I wouldn't go higher than that but I think that that would be a a commit where we have some skin in the game here and let them proceed and see how the fundraising works out um but I would be comfortable at this point at least at half when you say half you mean like 100,000 like well so the two if it's 70 I guess I we can talk about whether the construction cost or the documents and that but um I guess to make it easy an easy like half of whatever that total in totality that cost would be to move that water line which yeah which is the 130,000 uh Jamie mentioned at the in her piece in the right Jamie that's the current estimate for that water line relocation okay so then the 70,000 is just the cost to construction for the whole the whole project itself not just the Water Lane move but the whole correct yes yes as far as the you know like the staff the the engineering uh maybe attorney fees or whatever those other things are that that would be the um extra whatever onto that but the but as far as the water main uh shift that I think that'd be great if the city pays for half of what the cost of that water m is um which is say it's 130 and so we pay for half out of our funds whatever and the city does half and then of course no matter where the location is the attorneys and the engineering and whatever is all you know on City staff wise whatever that's going to be that other cost whatever that you know estimate is are those that estimate hard costs or opportunity costs or what what is that so those are those would be our hard costs our third part um costs I Mr Miller had asked me about staff time and opportunity costs and given our discussion at the last work session I I got the sense that wasn't important to council to track the opportunity cost Jam's time Dave's time my time whoever time will still be um necessary that wouldn't be part of this number so I hear um so is CC member Roberts just to be clear do you have some appetite is do you feel that those project management costs are fully the city is that also part of our investment or would you also feel that that is half I'd be open at that not I don't have a hard I I feel that yeah I feel that that's an area where um I think it's in our it's in our best interest and it's in everyone's best interest to make sure that that project is managed as well as possible that it's designed as well as possible um and so I I feel like we should at least share in those costs um and if we're starting to run on the high end of you know what the committee is able to do I I think the city should take that on because we know that if a project goes poorly we end up taking it on anyway I'd rather us make that upfront and make it a positive project um so I'm open to us also supporting um those costs so am I hearing 100,000 150,000 I'm not sure where I'm cutting the halves in pick pick a number and tell me we can figure out the details of what what and the resolution that that we bring back I was thinking 100 but you guys are talking higher so yeah I'm um well if it's 50 of both that is 100 that's I thinking I mean I'd say let's commit to at least that and open to I mean because we're not UPF fronting that money necessarily right and again if there's there's issues fundraising or project cost overruns they can always come back and ask ask for more I think it would just be helpful in planning for their fundraising campaign and the design to know what what the city could contribute foundational support and I so what I'm for what we're hearing is foundational support of at least 100,000 um I will say as we go and as that project gets further designed and as fundraising efforts are coming up I am open to a second ask um and because again I I just feel like that's part of our role is to just make sure that this project can happen and so um I'm open to a second ask but if this is kind of the you know the foundational level that's required to get us to the next level I think that's the right move for tonight yeah I agree I'd be open for a second ask and then too with that I think an update would be nice as well so update from them for the project and just the conversations being had yeah and for sure as as Jamie mentioned and I think she did this is probably just the first of many times you'll see them before you now that they've got some Direction they can start that design and be coming back for that we'll have to talk about you know long-term maintenance and all those type of agreements so they'll definitely be updates I Envision in the future perfect gentlemen does this get us to the next level where we need to go very good so I hear site one is it we found a home site one a home thank you thank you very good thank you for being here yes thank you you're welcome all right um our next topic this even uh consideration of the downtown storm water bmps and kind of an update from our last Council discussion Tim I think you're leading us through this yes good evening mayor and Council um on March 25th uh I presented some options uh for some potential corrective actions um on the downtown BMP project um number one was to consider you know restoring the area um to the original design the second would be to consider easier maintenance um and then finally to restore uh all the areas to their preconstruction condition um I was tasked at that time to reconnect with the residents to gauge some interest on a balance um and I'm here to present those this evening uh I will run through these relatively quickly but we can certainly stop at each one and discuss more if you'd like um so for basins 1 12 and three will start at the very south end of the project those are off of Hayward uh the the preferred option there was three to store to the preconstruction condition um at Basin 4 unfortunately I haven't been able to connect with them verbally so I don't necessarily want to speak for them completely the the unique part about option or Basin 4 is that it really does match the preconstruction condition the closest um and so for the sake of this exercise we assumed that that Basin would remain in place um but again I don't necessarily want to speak for them as I um hadn't connected with them directly here yes no thank you I I I saw you walk in and didn't recognize you so um you know certainly open to uh to that discussion um similar to the the next basins to the north uh the Basin 5 is really split into three cells um I know that the mves were here last time too discussing or you know expressing some um desire to restore to option three since I hadn't talk to them directly don't want to speak for them again um but it's assumed for the sake of this exercise that those BAS would be restored to their original preconstruction condition um for the north cell of basin 5 and Tom CH and his wife's property excuse me adjacent to his property um we discussed he expressed some concerns uh you know and desire to restore to option three but was open to some additional uh consideration for a shallow half a foot feature so we did uh assume that some volume could be preserved in the north cell of option five um moving all the way up to 233rd now to the searings uh Basin Basin number six um he also expressed desire to go to option three for a full um full restoration uh to uh to the pre-construction condition um I asked Mr saring if I could present an option to him that essentially kept the same small footprint that was there before um and still maintain some water quality volume uh he was receptive to that option but wanted to make sure that you know his Lake access was restored that his home would you know be preserved from flooding um that there wouldn't be any real expansion of that storage option so um I sent him a map this morning I know he's out of town right now um but he was at least receptive to that uh to that consideration moving finally to Basin number seven um we know that that basin's quite deep uh however the the property owners adjacent to that feature mention that the drainage on their property is actually improved um so there's maybe just some some regrading that we could do to help encourage some of those flat areas to go away um but really helped keep water from flowing directly into their backyard and and stay in the ditch area um so we'd look at some restoration there for um for uh better maintenance easier maintenance uh shallower I know that one is is having some trouble draining too um so bringing the sand section up and adding a tile um when all is said and done that total volume now um if you in the on the second page of the memo um would be a total of around 2800 cubic feet that could be preserved um that has an offset treatment area of around a half an acre 0.46 Acres um I have not updated a cost estimate I presume that that $92,000 number would go down because we're not filling in every feature um but you know certainly want to open this back up for discussion if need be um and answer any additional questions thank you Tim thank you for the additional work and the feedback that we took from our last council meeting um I know we have a number of um homeowners here and um I'm happy to open up for additional public comment if there are comments that you would like to make um as council's considering this option and again we're just in Workshop discussion tonight anything that we talk about would have to come back in a meeting anyway but um I am happy to take some public comment if there is anybody that would like to speak any and if you could start with your name and address just for the record my name is Tom Chell 7480 Northshore Trail and uh my biggest concern and I think I well Blake got the deepest hole but the thing is becoming a nice garbage pit for people to throw their beer cans in because they don't want to be drinking and driving with the beer cans so they get out the window as soon as they can and so my biggest conern mine is really deep it's two it's a foot and a half two two feet deeper than the even the plant and I've talked with Tim you know I said if we could have a slight a gradual maybe a drop of foot from the N9 9917 foot sea level where the thing started 9917 was from where it started and it was supposed to drop down 3 feet well mine drops down to 9 911 from 9917 to 911 is where it drops down okay and so my biggest concern is maintainable and I said last time that the leaves the wind from the Northwest west southwest blow all the leaves into this thing and it's turning into a puss hole and it's too deep for me to run a mower in I've always maintained it real nice but now it's just a leave pit and so my my absolute desire is to have it just a slight where it could still accomplish the same thing to the right of my mailbox there's a slight divot and the water stays there for a while then it soaks in I mean this thing is just way too deep and and uh and so I would be open you know I understand that a lot of money has been spent and I don't want to be unreasonable but this could be done to a slight a slight drop and it could accomplish the same thing I know they got the drain tile in and they could raise it up and put another drain tile in with the sand soak it in and uh but the biggest thing right now is it's un unmaintainable it's too steep to you know I don't want to walk down there and be picking up the beer cans and the tracks that goes in there I can't I'm not going to go down and pick up the leaves a pile in there and it has to be maintainable so you could mow it with a Mower and pick up the leaves it would look nice and still have a I mean there's a wide path we're talking there right and so that's my comments I just I know that there's you know we want to try to preserve what has been done but it has to be a lot it's too deep it's too deep it's too deep and I think the same thing could be accomplished with a slight drop come up and it would accomplish I think quite a bit because I know the amount of water that goes there I stood out there in the pouring rain I know how much water goes and if you put that with that by the telephone pole there if mine goes into the one south of me Joe and aon's place there's a rise the water could accumulate there and then uh soak in and it would work fine so anyway that's my comments there so thank you for letting me speak thank you anybody else that would like to speak on this topic hello I'm Stephen 7496 Northshore Trail good evening um so now we also have a we just recently moved in um and of September um when we looking at the house BR the house this is all supposed to be done beforehand um and so we moved in we now we first looked at the house there's a nice little ditch there and now we have a 4ft hole for a pond in our front yard um it's also affecting a dra in our front yard because when they did it it slopes up and so now it's our yard can't drain out because it's all blocked by the pond that they created in the front um same thing we're also finding beer cans um also there's a concern right around the corner there people are going way too fast we've already had one vehicle go off the road into it so it's just a huge safety concern for that um our neighborhood has kids we're concerned about kids falling in their pets um um just making it it safe and also the same thing we're having garbage dumped in there and starting to smell like a swamp it's just it's not very livable you we want to sit on our front yard or down by Lake and smell a swamp have to worry about that so yeah we' like it to be be filled in thank you please I am uh Joe mcliff at 7490 North nor Trail um I want to say basically I think these things I mean right now they're they're basically ditches um this I don't know if you guys have been around that Northshore Trail area but Steve brought up a good point it's like there's that curve people go around it I've seen cars run off I walk on one side of the road because I figure I'm less likely to be hit because the um because that curve that's um where I used to work one of I my co-employee said oh when 97 is busy we take your road because it's a County Road and it's wellb built and it's fast so we have a lot of traffic through there um in our 20 years there we've also seen people start to try to ride bikes there which is kind of a harrowing experience we've also had people start walking walking their dogs uh it is always a difficult thing with that curve with that now it's made even more difficult by the big ditches and um it seems to me that's not a great way to um maintain an appeal of the city the neighborhood especially um the other thing with this is that you my wife alluded to the fact that we had made a rain Garden down in our place that was born of the fact that every when we first moved in there every spring that whole are area half of our land by the lake would get flooded and so we had somebody come in we had these prayer restoration people came in they looked at it they said oh you know you could filter the water and have a beautiful rain Garden down here and I can't remember it cost but it didn't cost $92,000 so they went down there they did it and they were right it's it's beautiful you should see it you know um uh I've seen other people do the same thing around the lake it seems to me that that would be a better way to do the filtering and plus save that space so that people could use it you know um I think it's I think it would be a great way to develop the neighborhood too and um eventually somewhere down the line before I die I'd like to see a bike path there thank you anybody else like to speak Aon MCU 7490 Trail I just would like a point of clarification what were you saying as far as each plot what what is what is the proposal tonight I don't know were you guys proposed something to vote on tonight nothing to nothing to vote on okay so you're just giving the like report of what everybody wanted so can you run through that one more time for me just really quickly does everybody want it restored to the usual the same apart from I don't know the I don't know what direction it is closest to okay just everybody wants it restored except that one spot essentially yes I was tasked with just coming back to have that conversation okay got it very good that's all that was my only question thank you Council feedback for Tim or Tim I don't know if you have any additional comments you'd like to make no council feedback and and and requested feedback is on suggested next steps is that what we are our our mission for this evening yes we need directions so that we can come back with the quotes next time and what work you wouldd like to have done I I um it's this project is challenging for many many reasons um but at you know if we could reverse time and do things differently there are many things I think we would all agree that we would do unfortunately that's not where we are um I can't foresee a good I I can't feel good about an option other than reversing back with maybe some of the slight modifications that have been proposed um we just we've there's too much that has already happened um and I feel like you know as a project overall we've lost Trust um and I I feel like we've we owe it to these homeowners to make this right and I think you know what's proposed in front of us tonight is much closer to that um considering that we don't have a time machine to jump back and you know do project communication differently and there's all sorts of design things that you know we would have potentially have done differently had we you know had this information N9 months ago or a year ago when we made this decision so I I'm I've been looking for as we've had these conversations I've been looking for a different option that you know is the next best idea and I don't feel good about anything else other thoughts I agree I think from the last conversation a couple weeks ago and then based on tonight and um just the bullet points on homeowners thoughts from that night but then also coming back to it it just seems like option three restoring restoring the area to its preconstruction condition seems to be favorable amongst a majority of the homeowners and I think it's only fair to the homeowners to go back to that Roberts did did I but is that what you're saying as well to go back to three on on everything or just or or what is presented on some of the residents that are agreeable if there is some if there is some level of salvageable project that and and in some instances I heard that it's better right so this project re results in better drainage and there is some salvageable project yes I think we should but if we don't have agreement um I I think that option by default for that for that particular let me just step back I'm open to an option property by property and so if and I like the way Tim has laid this out that if there are some um property where a salvageable project is the next best step then I think we should do that but if we don't have that agreement then I think we should re rever back on those individual projects and I should clarify I agree is I mean is that is that an option maybe I'm trying to create options that don't exist here yeah basins six and seven really on the North End near 233rd are independent of the other of the other parts of the project so um with the exception of basin 6 you know if we were to leave Basin 7 that's still about a th000 cubic feet um of that we could achieve there um you know it it's largely you know away from the the front portion of that yard and you know those homeowners have expressed that the the drainage has gotten better so that would be a good option to to leave there again it's an independent drainage area too so it's not right in the middle of anything else or you know wouldn't impact anything else Upstream um you know regarding the searings property that has been presented to them but again um if the the decision here is to revert back to the preconstruction condition um certainly support that option or Basin seven would probably be the only exception and I would say also if there's opportuni to connect with the searings between now and when we have to make that decision let's certainly keep those options open would be to be my preference um you know the other we just have to say this at some point right so the the the parcels that we're talking about in the impacted land was right of away and it I to me this project looks very different if it's not right of away and and I appreciate that if you live there it feels like your property um but I do think we we just need to put that out there that this was right away and um that you know doesn't mean that this project should not have gone many times different it doesn't excuse the result of what happened um but when this project was contemplated one of the reasons to do this project was again to get storm water management um in areas where we already have public land and and that is by definition what we have um and part of the reason why we went down this path um now again I'm I I we don't need to stay with that and I'm happy to reverse course and I think that's the right thing to do um but this is right away and so whether we're talking a street project or we're talking a trail or we're talking about storm water management it is why right of way exists um but again I think the right thing to do in this instance is to revert back as much as we need to to get property owner agreement any anything else that my desire is to try to get as much out of this as possible and I appreciate the the property owners adjacent property owners that are willing to work with the city on this I mean that's very big of them to be able to see the the the long-term plan here and for them to be open enough to do that I I really appreciate that and if we can move forward with a way to make everyone happy get some credits for this I think it's a a win-win at this point I agree a little win and maybe not as big of a loss well if I may then my my next steps would be to confirm with the searings and their desire there um I can re-engage with the with the property owners near Basin 7 as well um you know and have those conversations in the field but I'd like to you know move forward with an update in cost estimate and and bring that design back right just one other thing just to put on the public rec record because I think it's important the um the contract that that did this work um we no longer have a relationship with that will not be the contractor that does the work going forward so know that that that is also an important part of this project um and there's some lessons to be learned on our part of you know selecting who's leading those projects and selecting um how those projects are being executed so um just know that when we talk about another phase of this project it will be um a different project team so well different contractor that's doing the work so anything else anything else you need from us tonight no all right Property Owners anything else you'd like Council to hear you tell me what the next step would be from your part the next action the next Action Council will take as I if I'm if I believe what's going to happen next is that we will approve a project um specifically for the next phase which will be either um a fix if there is a fix that can be had or full restoration back to the original state um and so that would be the next Action Council will have in the meantime um Tim and the project will be working um to kind of put together those plans I'll a timeline for this start working or is it going to be ripped up all year like it was last year no um yeah the what we we would bring plans and specifications back to council for approval and anybody can correct me if I'm wrong here um we would then develop that quote package and solicit quotes we'd come back to council for for approval of a contractor and then we could initiate construction after that so if we follow that twoe TI uh Council cycle ideally we'd have plans and specs back to you in two weeks you know kind of a similar to how I presented it last time um we could solicit quotes in those next two weeks get approval for a contractor and then proceed from there we'll work with the contractor on construction timelines and so on after that which we can keep you all posted all right thank you everyone for where we've landed on this challenging project so Tim thanks for being here tonight thank you and all of you thanks for being here as well um move on to our next topic which is um 8D which is consideration of the Hidden Creek engineering standards waiver request and Abby I think you're walking us through this yes mayor Bay members of the council in 22 the city approved preliminary vyl plants for Hidden Creek a 57 acre multiphase development that's going to contain 12 125 single family homes Went Done the first phase of the development plan contains 22 lots and is nearing completion um Hidden Creek is going to move forward with their second phase final plan in fact fact I just got some documents tonight handed fresh off the press I think um but they are asking for one request in this second phase and that is for a waiver from our 2023 engineering standards specifically the standards indicate that after the design of preliminary plat utility grading plans that they would submit to us electronic copies for inclusion into the city's um CAD system and then the engineer would use those plant as a base for for developing final plans and specifications for public utilities and Street improvements in the site this is um slightly different than what the city was doing with our engineering standards in 2017 where we would review those final plans so the development team would actually review all final plans and specifications given to us our engineer would review them um my understanding is that change kind of occurred to help reduce some of that multiple back and forth that can happen during review processes whereas if um plans were given to us and we develop the plans and specifications we know we're only doing it once and then it's done so the developer tonight has said hey city um we've been kind of through this our plans are almost done can we just finalize those plans and specifications and have your your engineer review them so that's the question that's before you this evening um in my staff analysis I do note there isn't a big risk to the city obviously we might need to do probably an amended development agreement um to memorialize this but um as long as we have something in writing that both parties agree that we still have the review authority of the plans and that no construction activity and will occur until final plans are approved um I think that it still satisfies the general intent of our development review process I know um Paul bergerman and John dobs representing Hidden Creek are here tonight to discuss this with you do you have any questions for me or for them any questions and gentleman I'm happy to I'm happy to provide you an opportunity to speak as well if you have do you have anything you'd like Council to consider as we um as we consider this topic my name is John dobs and um I uh kind of run the Hidden Creek project um at the hope of keeping it at the 10,000 foot level and doing this kind of briefly um I would just simply add that the majority of the metropolitan areas in the Twin Cities do in fact let developers do their own plans reviewed by the city um this uh situation in Forest Lake is abnormal um at least from my experience um the second thing and I think you guys just watched this happen with the storm water project um discussed the idea of uh thing putting things out for competitive bid being able to control the contractors and the work that you're going to spend money to do um we don't have that luxury um one we're forced to hire the city engineer to do the final plans engineering is not black and white um I know that for a fact um this project was pretty complex um not the most most complex one I've ever done but pretty complex and as the council knows this was uh a source of disagreement in 22 uh between the staff and us and everybody had opinion so part of it is the site itself but we don't have an advocate for our designs uh going forward um because we are unable to have our own engineer do the work um engineering um and the city Engineers gets to have their say and obviously represents the city and we're not advocating putting in a project on duct tape but the fight that um the concerns that came up in 22 the engineer that we had hired is also the city engineer for other municipalities in the State uh multiple ones for that matter um the best example I can give you in my personal experience is is that I was doing a project in Milwaukee where we were pulling fly ash out of the ground that was a hazardous material and yet in Kansas City where we were doing a project the city engineer would not let you build us streets without fly ash so there is a variety of ways to do projects and a lot of them work um and all we're asking is to be able to control our own destiny and have our own engineer bid the work um and lastly and I think there are numerous people in this room that have been told this the previous stud administrator given the challenges we had had in 22 directly told us that we would be able to try this and see how it went and um and be a test case is the words he used he was not am uh ambiguous about it he was very direct this was very difficult in 22 it's not a reflection of Bolton and mink it's certainly not a reflection of Ryan or Jeremy they do good work but the process is very complex the other thing that ends up happening is by the time we see invoices for the work that we're required to hire and we're required to pay for the city's already paid for them and even if we have a problem and I can show you examples where we do um by the time we see it um Kevin and I are having awkward conversations about bills that have already been paid and um because of the system we can't have our own Advocate and go well wait a minute you bid this you told us this now you're giving us a bill for it no that isn't the it works but by the time we see it it's over um and as I said majority of the metropolitan cities don't have a system where the city engineer does the own plans and the developer doesn't have any say in it there are multiple people in this room who come from other cities some of which I've worked in that it's not the way it's done in a lot of places so that's a high level I can go down the rabbit hole as far as you want I have paperwork thank you but it would uh the project itself um it's really going very well for those of you that haven't been out there um there are multiple houses going up sales are happening things are happening the project needs to keep moving forward so uh we would very much like to get the council's direction on this um and I'm already behind schedule so that's on me but here I stand I didn't know that we weren't going to take a action I heard it was I my mistake but I didn't know there was going to be action into the discussion uh but boy we sure would like some Direction You Council um questions that you may have um as we're maybe the first one is remind me when did we adopt these 2023 engineering standards where does that come from3 Ryan would you mind answering the question mayor city council you here we bring engineering standards to you guys for review and approval uh recently obviously just a lot of the changes are to do with mind Do's construction standard materials uh naming convention uh specifications like that or some material or item that's been used on a public project that either worked well or didn't work well and working with Public Works is when those are adopted annually Ryan go ahead I don't know what year it was changed right but yeah so the current process that we're doing right now has worked very well with other projects the development right before this Forest Hills Preserve went very smooth and easy just like for 2017 20 plus years of projects were done the same process that's approved right now there are a handful of Metro communities that do this process not exactly the city engineer but the city engineer hires a consultant other firms to do it on behalf of the city and not a private but yes there are several communities too that's allow private all the way we've said from the get-go we would support you guys any any which way you wanted to go so previously back when all the Township in the city was being developed it was the process that's being implemented right now you had some people that wanted to change it in 17 and they allowed them to change it 17 18 19 the amount of items that came up you guys changed it back on your own was that the and that was the time frame I think so I early on my time on Council um I think we became aware that so I think the change had happened prior to me being on Council um but there was a number of projects that had a number of number of number of situations that um prompted I think a change in policy um projects in particular that come to to mind where Second Avenue as well as I think there were some issues with Chestnut Creek am I am I thinking about the are we are we talking about the same policy states it was those three projects what was the other one third Lake Estates Third Lake Estates and we're talking about the same process right no that those three were on the process that's being proposed to you tonight correct correct so you guys did experiment with it again and you decided to go back to your process that you had previously but again we said we would support whichever which way you want to go we are not deviating from any c standards or specifications you're creating new designs and adding cost to projects we're basically taking allowing the projects to be maximized up front with the plats and the dirt work and then once the line work is all laid in we take that line work to finish the final construction documents to the city standards you know to allow consistent infrastructure design plans that fully meet City standards and specifications better we have a better understanding what Public Works preferences are so there's that lack of or less back and forth not duplicating efforts uh and spending our time on preparing final plans ins specs instead of review memos and letters again we'll support whatever which way the city wants to go but we've even handed example plets to those projects that we just talked about and they still we got to do what we got to do to put comments on those plans and yeah those were some 200 plus comments on some of those big reviews we're talking 200 lot developments too but at the end of the day we have to do what's best for the city because we're not looking at it as one project and if we just need to be the reviewer so be it but we're going to look out for the best interest of the city for the long-term investment that the city's going to be owning and maintaining this infrastructure and it's not going to go over and Beyond City standards specifications this project has been very unique one of my most unique development projects in my career I've done development in Maple Grove Apple Valley Woodbury chasa uh Centerville and Forest Lake shago City so I've been all over the Metro myself too this project has had a lot of changes we've changed phasing we've we start something have finished it and then been asked to do something differently we've been asked to reduce the street whsts and there 's a lot of work that goes into all that line work whenever you're adjusting the curb the rim inverts of the storm sewer that are in those curb lines and then making everything try to match and right now we're chasing all over the place the the grading permits that are coming in because there's a variation of grading stuff out there too to try to make it the best project for who's going to live there long term right now we're fighting some driveways that are being proposed at 10% yeah does that meet City standard but do you think we a 10% driveway you can get get up in the winter time no so you know those are the things we're trying to balance but on the back side our invoices are submitted monthly I I can go faster if he wants but we submit our invoices monthly so if there's discussion at that time we're more than open and have dealt with it more on this development than I have all my other invoices so at the end of the day we're just looking out for the best interest of the city and we're willing to support whatever you guys feel is best moving forward question thoughts feedback I appreciate the broader feedback thank you so so if if if there's a case if is a real case where bills are being paid before that means there way to slow that piece down so that the developers have an opportunity to look at those before paid I mean if that's a concern it seemed like that could be maybe a simple timing thing or something but point of point of clarification your honor Council please the the question before you I I'm concerned that it hasn't been presented in a way that you fully understand what you're being asked um so if I may the question really is um are is the city the the way that the the design standards are set right now is that every developer that comes here has to use Bolton and mink for all of their designs for their engineering they don't have the ability to use an outside engineer for virtually anything for the design of public infrastructure right correct only public infrastructure they are designing are taking everything up to the preliminary plots and we take it through the final plot you look like you may have acept for but fundamentally that that's sort of A Sort sort of yes sort of but practically speaking that's not I mean so practically speaking Bolton and mink gets all engineering work related to development um that doesn't mean that there isn't concept plans that they're doing before they come to the city that doesn't mean that there isn't some you know sort of um pre-work work but when we're talking about the actual projects it's Bolton and Mink that does all of the engineering what uh Hidden Creek is asking for the council to to consider is to be able to use a their own engineer to do those engineering plans um my previous experience is from the developing world and I can tell you that it is unusual for a city to have the city engineer uh be doing the plans there is some concern around um not allowing a developer to you know bring in their engineer to do those plans historically what the city's perspective had been was there was some mistakes made by previous engineering firms and so it was a quality control mechanism and that was why it was brought back in house um but there is there is some legality around the issue that is why the previous City administrator when he met with Hidden Creek said yes there was some timing issues with being able to you know change anything in the process for phase one with Hidden Creek but for phase two that would need to be readdressed because there was some legal concerns about requiring um the a a developer to use the city engineer it's a little bit different if you're talking about a consultant but when it's it there's some convolution there at a minimum um this was something that was brought to um our attention to the City attorney attention back in 2022 and it was on our advice to the previous City administrator that this probably needed to be re-evaluated as a process in the future so I I just want to make sure that we're clear about what the ask is tonight um and what the what we're what we're talking about so one of the one of the reasons to revert back to this policy was there were number of projects that went poorly and I so there's a there's there is a requirement for City review of the plans um and as I understand it that there gets to be a time in a there's a time in a project on the execution where we found ourselves experiencing public facing delay and part of this was because it was a Redevelopment project not just a delay of new construction but there was public facing delay that was causing some I mean a fair amount of impact to the community um and so one of the concerns is that we lacked the ability to correct for that or pre prevent that from happening and I guess under this under this different model maybe my I think my question is what forms of enforcement do we have or What mechanisms do we have when something goes poorly to be able to recover in absence of us putting in we we essentially put in the preventative control that just prevents that from happening so what are what are our enforcement mechanisms or what are the tools that we have when something goes poorly to be able to fall back on your honor Council primarily you would probably be using the development agreement um in the development it would depend on what the situation is but in the development agreement the developer agrees to um a whole Litany of items from making sure that this the streets are swept in a timely manner to making sure that the grading is correct to making sure that the plans are built to the plan specifications um you know to complying with of a whole bunch of different inspections I mean just truly there isn't a grain of sand that isn't accounted for in the development agreement and um and so if they are in um violation of the devel agreement then the mechanism is to pull the letter of credit or it's a cash ESC gr depending upon um you know the basically the amount that we're talking about and then the city would use that uh letter of credit funds to fix the problem typically at the point where we would be say telling a developer we're going to pull your letter of credit they're going to get their street sweeper out there they're going to get whatever they need to correct they're going to correct that um secondarily um you can withhold building permits um depending upon again it really depends on what the the thing is that's not being done correctly but that would be another um element is to withhold a building permit or alternatively if they've already had a building permit then you would withhold the co so the certificate of occupancy would not be released until the corrections were made those would be your um like bigger tools frankly with these administrative citations that you just passed for some of the smaller stuff we could also start issuing administrative citations if it's just sort of a a minor thing but we really want to send a message that you know clean up your street sweep your street really would probably be where it' be most appropriate um but that would be another mechanism as well if I might please so the process would as I believe it goes in most places our engineer puts together a set of plans Bolton The Mink would review them if they continue to be your city engineer therefore we're all in the same page about what we're building B mink inspects the work by a contractor they sign off on it they sign off on the pay stubs or they just sign off on the work in general we paid someone $40,000 to set out the project and pay Bolton M to do review that the work was going in the right way at the end of the day I'm not sure what's really different in what we proposing versus what happened last time because there still got oversight I wasn't around for 2017 I don't know if Bolton of Inc was around for 2017 but the process we're talking about City still has complete control of what goes on besides what Amanda was talking about related to the developers of credit but just putting it into the ground they're involved from beginning to end but what we don't have is we don't have somebody on our end who can say and just so for example the preliminary plat process we went through in 2022 the senior engineer signed the plans when he was done with them that's how thorough he thought the review was this is a city engineer for multiple municipalities of the northern Metro he thought that the plans were so done that he actually signed him as an engineer and yet since that date we spent $200,000 and change in engineering reviewing and reviewing and reviewing the system is difficult to deal with and yeah at the end of the day it's a cost thing but it's also a control thing and um you know so I just don't see how the city has any risk as uh was discussed in the opening credit the plans we have have to be approved they're done by the city standards which are already in place um the work is respected by the city engineer we have to pay for that and make sure it's all done the right way when it's all done the right way the CO's occupancy permits are issued by the city after feedback from the staff so they review everything up till then uh there's there's cities like Woodberry cities like gber grve heights cities like all the metropolitan areas around that do it that way they're doing fine I don't know what happened in 2017 and and Ryan has said some of that to me as well and I believe you but we're not that and um you know at the end of the day you know this project land and houses 120 $150 Million worth of infrastructure by the time it's done and the land that we own and we've already have preliminary plot we're not the only for-profit person in this conversation Oldman mink my understanding um Sant tech for that matter um doesn't really matter who the engineering firm is they all run a business as well so to be direct I'm not sure why we don't get afforded the same luxury you guys run a business you bu you bid everything if I come to you and say my parkland's worth $500,000 an acre just because I say so what do you think can I get that I can't you know and I just don't think that's right that we should have to do that either can we put in a good project and bolon M has done a good job getting us there and and I'm grateful and but it has been very difficult to do it has burned out multiple people in the process doesn't have to be this way and we're here for the Long Haul and the ownership has put an awful lot of their money into this they aren't going to see any of their money back for quite some time they are really invested so just like you guys they live here as much as you do Mr Bergman I just want to make one comment I guess a few comments I think most of you are familiar with summer fields that we did which is a great Community but Ryan keeps bringing up the best interests of the city come on we are we want the best interest for the city too right I mean we're part of the same team on this um City standards are Engineers know how to design things the the the redundancy and the cost was was um if it wasn't frustrating it was hilarious CU you couldn't imagine what we were going through and it doesn't need to be that way so um I know we can do a great job with our Engineers everybody here still gets to review it and take a look at it and Bolton M watches put it in the ground there's no reason not to allow us to do it our Engineers are fantastic and you'll have a great project when we're done by the way this is only the first phase of the 125 Lots with the land that we have under control right now we have about 300 lots and hopefully if we can all work together we can expand that and all that's going to do is bring more residents and more households and rooftops to the community of force Lake unless you don't want that then you got to tell us that now to you know if we want to stop developing if we want to be like like Elmo was for many years we need to know that okay thank you thank you you so here's what makes this so challenging is a number of topics but um tonight's apparently the night for challenging topics um is so much of the detail in the execution is at the staff level um and and so as I hear about what those enforcement actions are there is a a detection that's needed there's layers of communication there's enforcement that's needed um there's staff action that's required and um what's challenging about making this decision is that we are doing it in with many different people in many different roles than when we had this conversation back in 2017 um you know I we are and and I I kind of see the city administrator position is kind of the the kind of a key role in certainly you know guidance to guidance to the building department guidance to the development department kind of key role in being kind of the access and kind of the coordination with the um attorneys from an enforcement action certainly management of the contract with th city engineer I am nervous to make this decision cuz I was part of the vote to make it the way that we have it today so I'm nervous to make this decision without having that that just perspective and long-term guidance of a city administrator because again I think that that is a critical role to whatever there's there's different models out there but the the model the person that is going to help make that successful I just think the city administrator just plays a really critical role in that so um what I'm interested in is can we make only the decision that's needed for the question on the table can we make a situational short-term decision um rather than just changing a policy that opens it up for everybody is I mean I I we if we are going to change for all of the reasons and concerns that Ryan has and all of the you know mechanisms that Amanda has that all requires a level of coordination you don't want from up here you want from you know strong leadership in that City administrator role for it to be successful um so it just I I appreciate you have a timeline to your project that is independent of what we are doing here from a city Staffing perspective I just feel like the execution of whatever decision we are going to make is just absolutely critical and it's challenging to do it when we are sitting here with an inm city of Mina with all respect to your skill set you just it's just not yet a permanent position and so what is going to be the right long-term answer for us goodness if we could have some additional conversation some you know additional understanding the pros and cons and digging a little deeper um I think that's what we need to do but also we owe these gentlemen an answer and so that's where I'm really struggling on does this need to be a forever policy decision tonight or is there a next best action that we can take that um provide some initial guidance I don't know mayor ban if I might add I I wouldn't be coming to you tonight with a policy change for a long-term circumstance I was in conversations with former Administration who did support this as a pilot for this next phase so is that so that's an important distinction so this would be a a suggestion for just what you said a pilot for one project pH for and not even for one project for this next phase for works well let's talk about the next one I think that in order to make this as a long-term policy change I think the council and um the development Community is going to need to and staff are need to be able to see that we can efficiently do it differently than we're doing it now comfortably than we are doing it now all that Hidden Creek is asking you for tonight is the the final construction plans on phase two of Hidden Creek I I'd be comfortable with that I mean reading you know the analysis I mean there's really little risk to us the extra costs are to the developer if they don't get it right so I'd say you know let's give us make this change for this phase and reevaluate it if that yeah it's just this not a long term I I would be comfortable with that as well the owner sends up on them I mean they have to come back with with the specs of the city demand and and our engineer can tell them mark up that 200 comments or whatever it is and it might end up costing them more you know it's kind of a gamble on that but I think the free market open market to let an engineer come in and that's that's I'm a free market person so I like that idea as long as again the city engineer has a final say I'm actually not a huge fan of approving a waiver from our standards that we already approved probably like a couple months ago um only because I I'm worried that it would open up a door to other developers coming in and I'd be nervous about that because then at that point why wouldn't we just look at amending the policy as a whole which that would lead to a longer conversation and then it gets to your point yeah I I share that same concern and you know for the next developer that walks in I think we you know if we're open to do it for one I think we have to be obligated to I'm concerned we're opening the floodgates right of the concern I think this needs some bigger larger conversation from a policy standpoint it deserves a larger conversation from a policy standpoint but we also need to be from a staffing perspective ready to enforce whatever that direction would be um that said I have you know Ser the city has been very well served by Bolton and M and Ryan's work in particular and so I'm always hesitant to deviate from that but um you know it I I I think what's different here to your point is that we're sitting in a different place from a staffing perspective and um I think that is a critical component to this um because to me this is a yes there's a council policy decision to be made but clearly councils from across the Metro have made different decisions um and be because there's supporting each one of those decisions is a management structure and a philosophy and how you know team members are working together and we aren't quite in that position and so I I to me this feels like an interal mask and the time for us to Grant an interal mask um I'm open to it I have reservations overall but um I'm open to us considering it as kind of just this inner mask and the circumstance and just Where We Are right now with overall Staffing again just so we're clear we have preliminary plat on the 65 Lots 22 which we've done so all we're asking is to have our engineer do the plans in the last 43 of those 65 Lots we can re-evaluate we can relook if if if it if we something screws up they still have the final say and look and we're going to we're looking out for the city's best interest as well as ours so if if things go if things were to go poorly and you were to have have a delay um what are the who who El who's impacted by that is um a joiny property owners impacted I'm just trying to measure the downside risk this is Island that we own there isn't any there isn't any adjacent owners other than the lot or the homes that are currently being built right now but it's not that complicated I mean it's not like we're starting from like we you know two years ago this has already been and vetted vetted through and gone through and it's it's um it's it's it's not a huge ask and our engineer is here's the other thing have Bolton mink be a bidder on it and be competitive that we're open to that too but to have this unbelievable open checkbook and decide in doing things everything can be redesigned I don't know what any of you guys do for a career but things can be done in different processes or procedures and be done and finished and still be a great project so it it just I mean it I've done this my whole life I've never had this situation and as far if you go check my reputation around I mean I don't have any cities that are have had bad experiences with us and if there is a problem you have a huge letter of credit and all we were asking and what I said at the beginning and I then I've been clear was um this was vetted by the last City administrator and I was told it was it we could be a test case and that's how the words I used at the beginning I understand the system doesn't change quickly but that's what we're looking for and um yeah it's uh this has been vetted by not only Bolton and mink detailed but wet detailed also Rice Creek waterers detailed hardcore detailed and this thing has been through the ringer a lot and but the cost that we spent so far just to put 22 Lots in the ground for engineering is insane there's just no other word for it and if we really are trying to do something that's affordable which is how you and I first met was upstairs doing that and we really are trying to do good quality projects and put them in the ground well who's done more than bergerman has in the city and I've done a lot of this in a lot of places all over the country and you know it's a good project so we're not trying to duct tape it together um I think we can show you that this works I think we can show you it works really well I don't know what happened in 2017 but I'll tell you this it isn't going to be us um I've watched Engineers come up with creative ways to try to keep the streets from sinking and curbs from being stable and cities never having to pay anything again it never works we live in a place where the ground freeze is 8 ft deep there's no way around it and you come up with all kinds I've watched this go on forever they're very good at what they do so are other people I watch bonus throw before them I after them you know it just goes on they're for profit we're for profit you guys have fiduciary we're just trying to do a project but we want to have some control over it we can't the way the way the system is set up now we don't have control we lose control of the process and yet it's our money yeah so I should clarify my my issue isn't that all the multitudes of wrongs that could potentially happen with any sort of project anywhere my issue is that we are waving our 2023 engineering standards for one developer and what's not to stop a another developer two weeks from now to come in and ask for the same thing three that day couple weeks later we have another five that day and then it just continues down the path of well let's just wave well okay you guys did it once before why not not do it for us so that's my issue so then if that is the plan for even just this one internally for staff are we planning on having further conversations about this policy because in in my mind if the answer is no we're not going to have more internal conversations about this policy we're just wanting to ease the burden for these one developers my answer would be no I would rather follow the policy just like every every other developer in the city has to so I think if we're not having a further conversation about this paragraph within our engineering standards well I think we should tonight but I think ultimately we should should because we do want the developers to come we know they're going to come right and we want to be a good partner to them yeah so I just think yeah if we are I'd be fine to say yes to this if we are going to have a further conversation about this we would love I would be in absolute no to this waiver if this is if we think we are not talking about this policy ever again Abol because I'm not going to do handouts to a one developer and then be s surprised if another developer comes in and be like well you did it for them do it for me okay well then why won't we just do it for everyone else so I'd rather make sure it works though yes yeah and so if we and if we're going to call it a pilot I guess then we can do that um but I think it' make me feel more comfortable going from the standards if it's going to be a bigger conversation for a specific goal and not just for specific developers yeah mayor ban can I just chime in really quick um this is something so as a reminder in 2017 you didn't have a development director you had a single zoning administrator and your city administrator that was working with engineering and public works and legal and you do have more staff here that are looking at these processes and procedures to see what are some of the industry standards how is this working how is this not working for us um this is something that from earliest onset of me coming in I had flagged as something that we need to review because I do think that there are some of our processes and our development review um system that are a little cumbersome and this I believe is one of them I do believe that we can create an efficient system where a developer can hire their own engineer and we review it and we still meet all of our standards and follow all of our laws I believe that that can happen but I don't I can understand that we haven't always done that and there is probably fear in changing that I think allowing for this 34 43 43 43 lot to see how this goes and then from that start the conversation as you're suggesting council member bentto having continuing that conversation because I don't want to keep coming back and asking for waivers either I want to have these conversations of what works for Forest Lake and what's going to help actually encourage and keep development moving along we we we haven't been developing like a lot of our other peers I've said that from the beginning and this these are we need to review these things to see if these are part of what is actually deterring us from growing and developing in the ways we probably could so I that being said yes I would it is hands down a conversation that I want to have but I do also want the opportunity for us to see can we do it this way and does it make sense I don't know that we could have that same conversation in another few months if we didn't give them this waiver yeah I'm fine with that and then I think there's my one other concern then too would be if it is going to be um starting that conversation and seeing how it goes what does staff do if more Developers come in tomorrow you know what I mean we won't but I'm just even if we won't I think having an internal conversation of if that happens because then there's going to be a window from this conversation until we we make a final decision on the policy and what is that internal policy going to be cuz it has to be consistent so I I think that can I mean to Mayor to your point about having administrator seated I think that's very important to help us guide us through that conversation and hopefully that's in place here in a couple months and we can move forward quickly I you know um U Mr rugerman has great reputation here I think he do a great project on this and I say that we allow this to happen on this project here and and then get a l a bigger conversation with staff coin as soon as possible just know that every city engineer gets ripped on in every city and they all complain that development is difficult and I've heard the same thing in my previous community that they development is scared away because of the engineer so I I just want to say that in defense of whatever Ryan's doing and whatever decision you're making here I promise you'll still have [Laughter] complaints we'll come to any Workshop when you want to pick it up and have the next dialogue I mean we we're all in right perect we want to see it one off either but we need to keep moving yeah agree Christina Abby do you have what you need for next steps on this I do something um will come back before you to memorialize that decision appreciate you being here this evening appreciate the opportunity to talk okay our final discussion item this evening um consideration of public um or the perks commission ordinance and Abby thank you mayor ban members of the Council so at the direction of the city council staff has been soliciting applicants for the Parks and Recreation Commission to date uh we've actually received five applicants additionally one of the former Parks trails and lakes commissioner has expressed interest we think both of the two remaining are still interested but um prior to moving forward with kind of scheduling interviews and potentially seating applicants and citizen volunteers um staff thought it would be uh important to review the parks and commiss the park and rec Parks and Recreation Commission ordinance and this is for a number of reasons um that is oh yeah that's um this is for a couple reasons first 18 months ago we had a quorum of our park or then um Parks Commission quit and clearly there were systems that were failing our citizen volunteers we don't want to create a new system like that again um d Staffing study that came out this uh end of last year indicated that we need to clearly Define from a Park and Recreation perspective what what we're doing before we make some more big changes in this Arena events programming partnership Parks maintenance facilities I would add the Commission in there right like seating seven citizen Volunteers in roles that we're maybe not sure what exactly are appropriate um definitely a reason to re-evaluate um it was just less than a little over a year ago less than a year ago um that we did a full rewrite of that ordinance at the direction of Prior staff really taking a look at that ordinance and seeing what is what is appropriate what's going to fit for a new commission and then lastly the new ordinance requires a seven seven member commission five citizens and then one each a representative from the Forest Lake Area School District and the Forest Lake area Athletic Association um in talking with our partners at the school district at an athletic association seating those two positions as voting members can be a little challenging um those are threeyear terms some of the staff just the idea of seating staff for three years for another commission so one of the things that we wanted to talk with you tonight was about the potential for seaing them as ex official memb members similar to the Eda that we have our chamber partner and our County Eda staff that are here they're subject matter experts we call on them we ask them for updates they're part of the dialogue but then the decision- making comes down to the the appointed officials I'm going to try to just pull this up again I have a quick um thing to guide clerk CL here we go ironically not coming up oh there we go um so just a little bit of commission history that was in there we H um had our first um Parks body it approved in 1967 so that was for the Village of Forest Lake and from the very beginning our Park body had the authority to acquire Land Park purposes they had full and absolute exclusive control over properties that as said for Park purposes that was the park board that was there in that time you can make contracts uh and leases for the construction operation of Park facilities as well as employeed own people that ordinance stayed in effect for a long time um in 1973 there there were some different amendments over the years but in 1973 the ordinance 239 was where we added in the musical and free entertainment for the general public provided funds were available and then required um uh comprehensive plan 5year Capital program a reminder that Park Board structure remained in place until 2015 so it was a very long time that that Park's body was really operating independently in a lot of ways from the council and had their own authority um so in 2015 we adopted a park commission ordinance seated a new Commission um but then just within a matter of little over a handful of years the commission quit so um commission duties of the current ordinance they would advise the Council on matters related to the park including expansion plans and development updates to the park system Park plans proposed special public events and partnered Recreation programs Parkland dedication requirements and then annual fee schedle changes and they would assist St in understanding attitudes and concerns of citizens and that would be for Parks events and partnered Recreation programs they would have engagement with a variety of internal external stakeholders uh quality and variety of special events monitor industry Trends uh engage positive public interests feasible method for discouraging vandalism and holding public meetings there's a little bit of a uniqueness in our city code we we embedded right into our city code some duties of both staff or of Staff in the community development department and the public works department and I remember sitting right in front of you a little over a year ago and saying this is not common but I think at the time we thought we needed to write down what was happening of the administration of parks because we wanted to really call out who was doing what and how do we keep kind of keep things moving a afloat for a while so Community Development Department where orientating and onboarding commission members we're keeping Commissioners informed we're preparing agendas and minutes and getting everything meetings ready we plan and execute special public events for the city we coordinate applications for public uh privately organized public events assist with Park system development and planning assist with development and maintenance and then manage the systems uh programming budget Public Works however oversees the ongoing maintenance of the park system they keep the commission informed on maintenance needs they carry out construction and development they develop and maintain Park system Capital Improvement and maintenance plans manage the park maintenance budget so just as a reminder um as it heads up these are the staff duties that were occurring before we even wrote that ordinance right and um as a side note Dave's job description my job description JB's job description don't necessarily ref these things right what we're doing is way over all over on the board in Parks Commission management in general this idea of joint Administration and management is really uncommon so Empire Township and Wyoming were two peer communities our former Parks Trails Lakes commission had um identified other than that Hugo out of our peer communities is the only one that kind of has this joint Administration model otherwise Standalone departments Elk River Farmington hings rosmont and then otherwise um many communities have parks in public works or a facilities department they Lally look at um public works as being the holder of those lands right for those Standalone departments they tend to have more programming efforts for those public risk facilities they tend to to offer the facilities but not necessarily have any programming so um that's just a high level of where we've been um so all of this tonight is just to get some ideas on policy related discussions let's see if these things are going to necessarily need to trigger any ordinance changes but definitely can help us better onboard our volunteers when they've got a better understanding when we all have a better understanding of their role staff's role in some of these policy-based discussions um so I bring up events right away because as the council has recently seen we've had 36 40 events in the Community public events not always publicly planned um some small some large and right now the code really says that the Parks and Recreation Commission would plan and execute events so do you would you like the Parks and Recreation Commission to continue to plan and execute events and maybe to piggyback on that or does the council think that this could maybe be you know largely administratively functioned Maybe doesn't go through this commission at all and I'm going to kind of rock you through some questions I should have prepped you for that the three events you're talking about is the um remind me please well so the events that the city plans and executes are um springling ARS in the park and Hometown holiday so the question is do you want the parks and and Recreation commission to continue to plan and execute those events any events well arts in the park is more of a series of events right yeah I'm a little um so I I I look at I look at this question a little bit like I look at what we do do here on Council and so there are it's not that the answer is no involvement but also I think it's to the extent of what are what are we what are we talking about for you know to plan and execute events and certainly if there are Community member concerns about the quality of I don't know entertainment at arts in the park or if there's ideas on how things could be better I think it's that's naturally a home for those things to go to but I'm challenged in um do I is is is that their primary purpose no um and you know plan and execute I mean they are certainly um from a it's it's it's kind of like it's it's similar to what we do here on Council versus you know Street projects for example um we don't we don't execute anything we make some policy decisions we um approve some funding we you know provide you know we um have input certainly to who's around the table to manage um and I know we've had very engaged committee members in the past which is lovely but I don't you know the the details of actually executing the event I don't see that as part of their role I see it more as they are advising and they are making sure that um staff is community you know we're we're reflecting the community and that we're executing well but I wouldn't see them as actual you know Hands-On executing Beyond a you know a vol if somebody wants to volunteer and sure Chuck some corn that's lovely I think um I saw some heads nodding that but I would well I I would think too I mean maybe like kind of a postevent review with them to seek their feedback or improvements what what what were they hearing from the you know other citizens I mean I think that'd be a important role to play for sure but yeah I would agree it's more of a head advisory post and you know after but not execution um okay so can I just add one quick comment to just I think I think everything was I agree with that definitely and I think even though these are the three events that we have for Community just as times change and evolve are they still working are they not and getting feedback from people sitting on an advisory Commission of suggesting changes or filling some gaps in the community we might not always have arts in the park Hometown holiday and this Spring Fling it might change and evolve and I think just having those opinions from what they might see at other communities that they attend um different events that they go to so that we can continue to be Innovative and provide the community with like new and exciting offer offerings pending that there's the support of council to do so um would the council like the commission to review some or all public or private events on public lands so some good examples um you know things things like um the Ragnar race it's on public Trails it happens in a public park does our Park commission need to see them are you guys comfortable um with an approach that um maybe they weigh in on staff's review I mean you have a park staff um one thing that I know um had been discussed at one point is that they review new applications for impacts to the system and that gets weighed in if there needs to be something that comes before you some of this starts to creep into what we need to do with events in the future um but then the other question is um like the malard street dance um right now outdoor um outdoor entertainment would just have gone to the council but something like that wouldn't have as it sits right now I don't think the code necessarily is distinguishing between those public and private lands would you have envisioned our Parks Commission having a role in that in the review of a public event on private land I would I would I would not I mean yeah I I would I would I would not I'm trying to I'm trying to Define that further um I think MERS is a really good example right it's completely privately organized private property but right now I don't know that the code is well defined like that right and so we really need to make sure that as we're putting in new Commissioners and maybe looking at some ordinance amendments in events as well as parks that everything is Jing together so that we don't have so just point clarification so are we looking at the last question with it reviewing any public or private on private land moved into that one I mean we did we talk about on public lands is there I mean sounds like there's a distinction I think it started in public lands and then skipped to private lands and I'm really sorry because it's 10 to quarter to 10 at night big one should huh this kind of a big agenda item I'm wondering if 10 o'clock at night is the right time to tackle this this is only one of many things um no yeah that is just fine if you like to this was I um so here's maybe my quarter to 10 thoughts on this topic um I look at this a little bit like I um I I I'm I'm questioning myself on on some of these some of these questions and I appreciate that they're coming up because we have vague or incomplete and we're getting ready to seat a new commission what weighs on me is we just rewrote this ordinance and we haven't seated a new commission and also we have a open City administrator position where I just feel like there are a lot of yes there's a lot of moving pieces today but there's going to be a lot more moving pieces and I'm not sure that now is the right time for us to make an ordinance Amendment um I I feel that that time is our friend and that if we kind of take the current ordinance that we have and yes it's imperfect and we knew that when we passed it we knew it was a bridge to something else I'm not sure that I know right now tonight what that future ordinance should look like and so part of me feels that we should get a commission seated get started on some of just the basics that we know we missing and um I think some of these other questions are are important will start to become clear as to what we should do um it feels a little cart before the horse or or maybe we have incomplete information commission coming on board seeing that operation and I don't know necessarily that the ordinance needs to be changed I just don't want to bring on a new commission and have inappropriate roles to find that's that would be one concern that we're we need to on board a commission and I think um more than anything um the policy discussions around events need to be addressed to make sure that we're not putting those volunteer Commissioners in roles that are inappropriate and that we wouldn't want to continue so knowing that maybe the best thing to do is to table this conversation if that is until a new commissioner or a new um administrator is seated I think that that's fine I just don't know what you know um it's just another voice in the mix there's I was just say I mean I guess the goal I mean everybody on this here said we want to get a commission seated I think ab's point is we need to make sure that we're setting proper expectations agree um and then there's also feedback from our partnering organizations that what we put in our policy is probably not of good fit from a voting time year so I mean I don't know that we I guess necessarily need the administrator to kind of work through some of that stuff I mean and the reason I the reason I default to the administrator role is I I feel like there's a lot of management Nuance in in much like the conversation we just had about engineering of there are lots of different combinations of these types of questions that could be successful and um what is going to ultimately be successful for for Forest Lake is what we're doing and I just see staff is so critical in that role um that I appreciate weighing I appreciate weighing in and want the you know future commission to be successful but and maybe I'm just not asking the right question maybe I should just be saying what's staff's recommendation because again I I just see that there's so many paths that could be successful that mayor B I may um just having led the Commission in the past um and seeing this new ordinance come into place the desire to seat a new commission I know there's um some great applicants that have come forward I feel that in lie of really diving into the ordinance and what may or may not need to be changed from the last revisions I think a suitable solution could potentially just be to set clear expectations in the first six months of three here are the top three things you're going to focus on policy development for the pickle ball courts what are other communities what should we Implement um item two you're going to you know be a part of Arts in the park help guide get into the community get to learn the system number three go visit all the parks you know I'm just throwing out a few there but like really you set the stage of like just that introductory like here are your few things that you're only needing to really focus on and I think at a staff level you know the budget conversations are going to come up there's going to be Capital Improvement planning and let them know in that process that explain it to them you know this is the process but it's staff L LED and driven where they can then chime in on oh well I heard Summerfield Park really needs XYZ and that's listed in 26 maybe that could change I don't know but just I think that there could be enough Direction with a new count uh commission seated in a very concise way to provide that if you desire to continue to move forward without diving into the full ordinance policy I think that is a obtainable but if you have an ordinance in place that is not something that you want your Parks Commission folks to do events for example since we've been talking about them and people are reading your ordinance and they're applying to be in the Parks Commission because they want to be heavily involved right like that's I think that's where where Abby was trying to get some directions that you know even if you're not changing the ordinance we can at least have that conversation with folks about what they should be expecting as opposed to they read something there and maybe the compromise is that this has to get set aside and we put together that work plan for the rest of this year and Council blesses that and that's all that the Parks Commission works on for this year um some of those things that Jamie said and onboarding and obviously budget stuff will take up most of their time this year but that's why we brought this forward is because we we don't we don't want to have people have a certain expectation of what they're signing up for and then change it we thought it would be best to let them know ahead of time what they should be planning to do planning to have conversations about you know yeah I think these are all really good questions too is there room on next week's agend uh Workshop agenda to pick this up I think we should um yeah if not there for sure on the 22nd we don't have any discussion topics yet so yet don't add any we have to do it sooner rather than later yeah and I again I a it's like it's like having a job description right it should reflect the job and we should be as accurate as possible what's what's frustrating is that we we just did it so can I just note something that I um when I uh piec together some of the history for this staff memo um I went back to the staff memo I prepared for you last year with the new ordinance that um City former City ad Ministry Casey had helped develop and I think Amanda and I had worked on um in my ordinance in my memo is said it referenced the operating Authority that was in the code um it looks to me that quite possibly we never just sent um the ordinance that repealed the park board and replaced it with the commission to our online codification firm um and then we created this whole new ordinance um so possibly what I can do is pull together a little bit more information for you on the ordinance that I do believe was supposed to be govering our commission um and the existing one so you can take a look have a few of these more policy discussion not all of these policy discussions are going to feed into an ordinance Amendment some of them are these kind of other special events stuff that we kind of need to do some of it's just kind of getting you thinking about what is the park system of our future because um those are things you we've we've said we were going to talk about and we we really need to um especially if we're going to bring in seven more citizen volunteers age agree I think something that would help me in the conversation for the next time we discuss it is maybe giving some examples for the like events whether it's on private land or public land or like the the dance at malards that was helpful just so we can visualize it beforehand and tonight was just a very aggressive agenda to so we should probably just acknowledge some of this may just be it's 10 p.m. and I am ex our tomorrow selves at 9:00 a.m. will have all sorts of bright thoughts and we can revisit this topic at another meeting so there is a reason we have a curfew shall we transition to staff updates you want to start with me uh the only update I have for you well two of them one the Wednesday night the Planning Commission will hear a zoning code Amendment it's a repeal and replace of our existing zoning code but it is not changing any zoning code policies it is reformatting the zoning code kind of trying to get like with like one of the biggest challenges that we've had in our analysis of the zoning code is there's a little bit over here and a little bit over here and things buried in here and really trying to get everything together um to be able to really then start to look at uh updates to improve the zoning code um that'll come back before you in two weeks um so just wanted to at least let you know if you saw a full repeal and replace out there that's what that is um and then I can finally say this in public Chase Bank has made an application to go into the old KFC wow so if anybody in the online world is watching us live now we all have an answer of what's going to happen in the KFC so wow that is the headline of the you like that wait until 10 o' Jamie no further updates tonight thank you very good Christina uh mayor and Council next Monday will be a long day for you again I'll um starts at 4:30 with the Eureka open house that I'll let Ryan talk about and then you have the local board of appeals and Equalization at 5:30 um up in the community room and then we'll actually have to have our work session down here just with everything that's going on um so another long night and then but on a positive side our new city clerk starts on Monday so she will be here to help us through all of that we're excited to have her join us fabulous Amanda yes just a reminder that the um application for the city administrator position closes on April 23rd and then there'll be some behind the scenes work from uh DDA to um finalize uh the applicants to the semi-finalists and then that's when Council will step in and there'll be video interviews and a whole bunch of of things that will happen after that so April 23rd is the cut off for the applications and council's not council's next action on that is not anticipated until May 13th is that right that is our first meeting in May correct you will have um uh video interviews that you'll be sent prior to that right but yes the first meeting event will be on May 13th okay thank you Dave uh couple updates 12th Street Southwest as you've probably seen has been shut down bunch of stuff over there it they're going to shut the water down in about 2 minutes so um Public Works and Bolton B are there doing inspections in the shutdown so they'll be there overnight getting that uh cut in and then paved back they have Northwest asphalt lined up to pave that in in the morning and as soon as it's paved in it'll be opened back up so uh I think it's been going decently well it's a lot of work that they're trying to jam in in a a few hours so they're everybody's working pretty hard there uh second update is uh the compost site um as far as the sewer and water extensions to the new Northern was site uh the water line is going to get boarded underneath cter Road 50 and attached on Tuesday and Wednesday or tomorrow on Wednesday and then they'll start running South to the new site the tenative plan is having the comp will site open on uh the 20th of April that's on the website as the opening if that changes if they can't get the site restored in time we will update that but that is a tenative plan is that Saturday the 20th um sounds like about a week to get it in it'll give us about 3 days to prep it so hopefully we can we can make that work but that's the plan and if it changes we'll we'll put up a reader border and on on on Facebook and stuff to update that perfect thank you Ryan mayor City C so just kind of a quick recap for tonight we had a public open house for County uh State a Highway 32 basically the purpose of that open house was to just to feel if there's any push back on their uh current proposed alignments and the realignment of Forest Road and there was just the still the one resident that showed up we had some fairly decent attendance obviously not as big as previously but uh like I said just the one resident that showed up that was still not in favor of the proposed project we are are actually meeting with that property owner on April 17th uh pre-con for the 2024 Street payment maintenance project is scheduled for Tuesday April 25th uh Monday with eure Avenue yes we will start the public open house right here in the small room in the hallway at 4:30 we do plan on doing a uh presentation on the project at 5:15 and then we'll kind of go into to Q&A kind of what you saw upstairs we do plan on presenting that same presentation at the April 22nd city council meeting too uh I just want to say a couple points you know tonight obviously I'm willing to support the city and however you guys want to move forward but I just want to clarify a couple things we do not pick the contractor they did pick the contractor we had nothing to do with that I do submit an estimate to the developer what it's going to cost so I do not have an open checkbook and I am on the last one that we had to submit for revised plans you know when we went to the reduced streets I'm about 9600 below what I quoted them and on the construction side I'm almost just under 30,000 under what I quoted so I had checks and balances through this project no matter which way we go we always do because I mean you've been involved on backside of things on some other projects and once we go through the detail you see how much cuming time that is but again at the end of the day we have to continue to watch out for the best interest of the city and it's not just Bolton M doing it we're doing it on behalf of Public Works fire chief on placement of stuff on material types I mean if we get a wrong hydrant on a job none of his equipment will hook up to that hydrant with their hoses so there's a lot of things that go into these projects but again at the end of the day whatever partnership you guys want to move forward on these projects we always been flexible we're not here to look at one project we have plenty of other work we could go be working on out in the industry but we do provide a very talented and experienced team that has a lot of development experience and you made a comment about Woodberry tonight we do Woodberry developments so it's I just want to get some of that stuff out there so you guys have a better comfortable feeling of and that trust continues with Consultants because I mean you can get a bad rep ition really fast on some stuff were not accurate and I just want to leave it at that thank you thank you Chief I just have one update for tonight uh tomorrow we take delivery of our engine tender uh that was ordered uh just shy of two years ago and with bringing that tender in uh once it's in or once we receive it uh it'll take us about a month and a half to put that to service there's driving train training pumping training and then we have seven firefighters in uh fire apparatus operator class that started last week and they will be training on that truck and with that truck we will be able to Surplus two other trucks so we'll have some room in the fire department again you need volunteers to drive it into town we've got rock paper scissors that real fast up here thank you all right thank you Kevin oh this one quick update I got confirmation that the first quarter utility bills went out via email tonight so the ones that get them paperless they should be in their email inboxes the ones that get them in the mail should be getting them later this week maybe the weekend maybe Monday um our printer company has a 48 hour turnaround so that's depending on when they get that out so res this encourage residents to give us a call if they have any questions on their bills thank you Kevin transition to council updates council member Robert nothing tonight council member valento nothing for me council member Eric nothing tonight no uh nothing here either as far as updates just a note I know tonight's agenda has gotten really long or you know the agenda was long it was a packed meeting um some of us were here for the neighborhood meeting starting at 4:30 and then transition to Eda um I'm always open to feedback and we accommodated a lot of public comment tonight which I is can be good but it also means that we end up with long meetings and so I'm always open to feedback on managing a agenda into Times managing format accommodating public feedback but also getting out of here at a um acceptable hour and so um tonight got a little longer than we would like um but it's always a balance and I'm open to feedback as we go here and try to find the right mix of engaging in some conversation and getting into a little bit more detail in an agenda topic um maybe one of the and Christine and I have this conversation all the time and we both knew that this was a lot for tonight um so it's always an imperfect science um but just want to be really respectful of everyone's time and really appreciate everyone hanging out here till after 10 p.m. uh with that that is the end of our planned agenda I will entertain a motion to adjourn so moved we have a motion is there a second second Motion in a second all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose and we're [Music] adjourned