The January 21st Parks and Recreation Commission regular meeting to order. I will call to order. I'm sorry. Roll call. >> Commissioner Matson here. >> Commissioner Eert here. >> Commissioner Morhead here. >> Commissioner Tyson here. >> Commissioner Herina here. Commissioner Gary, Commissioner Lmark. >> Yes. >> All right. Commissioner Gary absent and heads. >> If you're able, please join us and stand. And for the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for its one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Next item will approve the agenda. Moose second. Any discussion? All in favor? >> Open forum. I do believe we have some. >> We have Yep. One, I believe. Yep. You're good in that. >> Welcome. Just for the record, your name and address, please. Nanasa, 1276 4th Street Southeast Force Lake. >> Thank you. >> And I'm here to address you today. I know that the topic of the dog park is um up on your agenda tonight and I am a dog owner and uh one that walks the streets of Forest Lake on a regular basis daily. Um and in the parks uh program as well. I live not too far from Bel Park, so keep a good eye on that part for you. Anyway, and uh of course um interact with dogs on a pretty regular basis. Uh so my my opportunity to come here is just to share with you that I think a dog park is well needed. I've been saying that for a long time along with, you know, it's great to have at the park at least one or two of the doggy, you know, bags. Um I do care of my own, but not everybody does. And so one and a blue moon, I forget. And uh so it's just nice to have those available. But on the bigger scope of things, um we do have a it does happen on a fair fairly often. Um folks use the park and let their dog run loose because they want to, right? And so I keep my dog leashed and uh they do not. And so that puts me at a disadvantage because the dog who is loose. And so from that perspective, I think a dog park is really necessary. And I do think that um maybe there's been some conversation about the size of a dog dog park and I guess from my perspective anything is better than nothing um just because we do have folks that are using the city parks as dog parks and letting them on loose and so I do think that um if we do have the opportunity uh to add some space for a dog park in Forest Lake with the size of our community um it's definitely a necessity That's what I wanted to share with you. >> Thank you. Thanks for coming out on a stormy night. >> Anybody else? All righty. We'll move to item six, approve meeting minutes from December 17th. Any corrections to the minutes? Take a motion. >> Melissa makes a motion. >> I'll second. >> Sue seconds. All in favor? >> I Kyle, Veterans Memorial Grand. And >> so, as mentioned, uh, in previous meetings, staff had worked with the local the Veterans Memorial Committee um, to get started the last big piece of the Veterans Memorial Project. and um we had filled out staff had filled out paperwork for our Minnesota Historical Society grant and was awarded that grant to start here January 1. So, um this is a grant that is going to be broken up over 2 years and ultimately pay 100% of the bronze uh memorial sculpture that will uh end up getting pllopped on on top of that uh site down at Lakeside. So in the attachment you can just see it's uh this is very um typical grant agreements. There's nothing too strange there or something that we so it's very basic um just very basic agreement. So just uh overall gives us all the the layout of what's expectations and um and yeah and then we obviously need to to agree to this to be able to receive the 210,000. >> Okay. Is there any questions? You see the recommendation in the memo Kyle put together for a motion if there is no questions. >> Thank you for the staff and I think it was mostly Kyle maybe that did the grant. I'm not sure. Yeah, I I wrote the grant on behalf of the memorial committee. We did meet a couple different times to get all the language and kind of took some information from the artists as well. Um, and we have Mark with the memorial committee who um was one of them that provided information on the questions. But yeah, staff spent probably about 30 hours writing everything up, working with the historical society back and forth. But um yeah, certainly a collaborative effort. So, >> gratitude to the staff. I'll make a motion that we Okay. So, the motion carrying that will be motion to recommend city council approval of the proposed Minnesota Historical Society grant agreement. >> That's what I was going to say. >> That's Yeah, I knew that. >> Yeah. >> All right. Do we have a second? I'll second. >> Uh second by Aaron. All in favor? >> I I So, yes. Thanks again, Kyle, for the staff work and everybody's work on that. All right. Next we have the Veterans Memorial Sculpture Agreement. >> So to piggy back off the grant, obviously we have been awarded the $210,000 and now the fun part begins where we get to spend the 210,000. So um the Veterans Memorial Committee had done some um leg work prior to receiving the grant with the anticipation of this part of the project happening. um it was always a part of the plan of the the site, but it was just going to be a challenge of getting the funding. So, in doing the project that's already taken place, um staff has had to work with the engineers to come up with a plan for how much weight's going to be put on the base and and a lot of uh engineer talk about um making sure there's enough support there for a sculpture of this scope. So really, it was kind of one of those things where we knew we didn't have the funding for the sculpture, but in order to get the work done that we already have funding for, we needed to create the sculpture to understand how big it is, how much it weighs, so then we have the footings and and structure in place for when the sculpture does come. Um, and then in doing that, uh, Mark, who was here with the Veterans Memorial Committee, um, I believe was kind of the leg work person to go out and seek the artist that could do, um, the sculpture that the Veterans Memorial Committee was seeking. Um, had to go through a selection process of narrowing down options. And there was kind of some change changes along the way, but ultimately we narrowed it down to two artists that could really provide the bronze sculpture that the vet memorial committee was looking for. And um through some interview process and kind of vetting out details, there was an artist group that was selected to do the bronze sculpture. Um that was done prior to being awarded the grant. And that's that's all fine. That was just kind of getting some of that pre-work done. So then when we are getting this grant, a lot of that work's already in place. We have artists selected that will do it. And they're actually here tonight as well um as with Mark uh to just kind of introduce themselves. And this is a agreement that staff and the artist group had worked on together and then city attorney ultimately drafted the agreement. So it is something that it's our city attorney re reviewed it. the artist group is here to kind of introduce themselves and then just uh uh give a background and show some of their work here um for us tonight and and then again just look to finalize this agreement to start moving forward with that project. So I'll turn it over to Linda, Pat, and Nick with uh Blue Ribbon. >> Hey, welcome. >> Hi. Thank you so much for having us. I'm Linda. I'm here with my artistic team, Pat and Nick. Pat's my husband and Nick is the owner and operator of Blue Ribbon Bronze Foundry. That's very exciting. So, we're really happy to be with you guys uh this evening to talk to you a little bit about our background. Um Nick is going to walk you through the process that we use to actually make a bronze sculpture. Lots of people don't know how that works, so hopefully you find it interesting. And then, uh I think you'll really enjoy seeing a design review. So, you're going to get an opportunity to see where we're at with the sculpture right now. Um, we've got a small one. It's about two feet tall, and you're going to see some pictures of that. So, my husband Pat and I are both veterans of the US Air Force. And Nick is a real veteran sculptor. He's been making bronze sculpture for over 50 years. Uh, my husband Pat and I joined Nick's team just before the pandemic, so about six years ago. And uh for the last six years as a team, we've been making bronze sculpture for both public works and for uh private clients. So Nick is going to walk you through the process how this actually happens and we're going to use as an example this gigantic bulldog uh that we did for UMD. >> Thanks, Linda. >> Welcome, Nick. >> Thank you. Um first of all, I just want to point out Linda was not the model for the bulldog. So in case there's any confusion on that, thank you for clarifying that. Thank you. We did make a model using uh the logo that Duth is uh University of Minnesota DUTH has been following for quite some time, but we had to three-dimensionalize it and um I wanted to be able to show uh the college what the model what the larger piece would be like. So creating a model is very helpful for both uh the artist as well as the client. It's nice to be able to see something in a fully three-dimensionalized form. Um every sculpture starts on a large scale with an armature uh typically made out of rebar and aluminum wire. And uh we create this structure because the clay will not hold up on its own especially when it comes down to little ankles. So um this piece was then once the armature was built the clay was started to apply over the armature and this is all water-based clay. So that has to be kept wet and wrapped up uh every day until the piece is finished and ready to move on to the next step. Once it's approved we start making molds and these are similar to if you broke your leg and you got a plaster cast over your leg. Um, we divide this up into sections so that the form is released, the mold is released from the clay, and then we put it back together to create um, uh, wax. And we're going to use the lost wax casting process. And I've explained this process uh, most of my life. I don't expect anybody to understand it, so I'm sorry. Uh, the first time I did the process, I held my casting in my hand. I had done every step and I couldn't figure out how I'd gotten it hollow. So again, if I didn't understand, I didn't expect anybody to understand it. I I'll explain it very simply. Um, it has to be in wax because we're going to take something that's flammable, in this case, the shape of our sculpture, and we're going to encase it in a fireproof material and then bake out the wax. And that's going to leave a very uh space, a small and intricate space that we're going to then melt bronze and pour it into that space. And so um if if we were just making teeth, you know, you make a wax tooth and case it and then pour gold in there and you pop out your gold tooth. Um and that would cost a lot more because that's a dentist. But um here we're pouring wax into the mold and we pop the um waxes out of the mold and then move on to the next mold process which is where the casting takes place. That's an investment mold and that requires a kind of intricate network of arteries and veins. That red wax uh rods that you see, that'll be the pathway that the bronze will flow through. And the mixture that we use is uh standard plaster investment. We're pouring that around the wax. It uh not only Oh, and look, that's actually a movie. That's cool. So, um it fills up it goes around the outside and fills up the inside as well because these are all hollow waxes. We could never pour an object much bigger than an inch thick. It there's just too much shrinkage. Uh we have a kiln and we it's got a big cart and we'll load up the kiln and and bake these molds at 12,200° for 24 hours. And uh you don't want to see my cookies either when they're done. Um, but uh that way the wax is removed but also all the chemical moisture because bronze at 2,000° if it hits even the trace of chemical moisture, it'll blow up. Then the bronze is heated to 2,000° and we pour that bronze off into the molds. The cups, you can see dark pretty quick. Um, and as soon as they're dark, we take them outside and break them open. And um I usually tell people that the casting moment is the halfway point in the process. There's still a great deal of work to be done in the finishing. And so uh you release the castings from the molds. You have to take the core out from the inside. Uh you start the Oh, that's the fun part right there. You really start swinging at it. Um don't we look so busy? Why do I do this job? This looks like a lot of work. Oh, it is. >> And the pieces are done. I mean, we're going to cast this in multiple pieces so that they're easy enough for us to pick up and handle. And eventually, it all has to be assembled. So, you can see there's a lot of fitting work that goes on and a lot of welding. And all the welds are then ground back so that you can't see where the pieces have gone together. And the last step is the patina work, uh, the metal coloring, which is basically oxidation. It's like rust on steel, except here we're heating up the surface and applying chemicals that uh transfer electrons to the surface. Oo, look at this power tools. >> It's amazing. >> Then the we also put on a spray lacquer. Um this serves a couple of purposes. It keeps the patina um at that level and at that color for a prolonged period of time. bronze, you can't stop uh oxidation from happening, but this will certainly slow it down. It also provides a a barrier and um a sacrificial barrier for if somebody comes up and spray paints your piece or something like that, you can remove the paint, just re reapply the lacquer and you haven't really damaged the piece in any way, shape, or form. And the fun part, installation day. Um, it's always a difficult task to pick up a heavy object and set it down and make it last forever in its location. And here you can see all the pins underneath the feet of our uh our bulldog and um anchor down with epoxy in this case or did we use expansions? >> Either one. Uh uh try to design these things. I always tell people I was uh to withstand an act of God like a tornado, but not an act of stupidity. You can't prevent idiots from coming up and doing damage, but you can do an awful lot to make sure that they'll withstand any kind of um storms or natural events. Oh, there it comes down. Um and it really u should not take that long to install this piece. We'll bring it up and and lift it up into place and and have corresponding holes drilled. There'll be large pins on this piece. And now I'll turn it back to Linda who's going to talk about the design or do any questions on the process. >> Awesome. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> So this is where we're at so far on the design. You can see it looks a little bit different than the um than the version that is on the brochures and in the uh the video that uh that the city did. Um the main difference of course is you know the size of the eagle a lot more prominent here. Um the shape of the thing the eagle is on is different. Uh we made some changes to the figures because we wanted to create a narrative where you can see the um the female soldier is like just coming home from a deployment you know. So it looks like one of those you know reunion uh videos that we've all seen on TV. you know, she's being reunited with her daughter just as the male soldier is kind of like suited up, ready to go on his deployment. So, that's sort of the narrative we wanted to create. Um, and you can see the uh the eagle's feathers are really pushing against those collapsing walls. So, you really get a feel of, you know, kind of this representation of the strength of the nation holding up uh these collapsing walls. So, um, we've been working really closely with the design committee and, uh, and we think we're we are almost there. There's a couple little details that we're going to work through still, but our plan is to bring this Mckette, this small model. It's about this big. We'll bring that uh to the city council meeting. So, we'll we'll have that on hand. And that's what we've got for you. If any of you have any questions, we we are here to address anything you might you might want to have. Any questions or comments, members? >> Totally amazing. Yeah, the design's awesome. >> Yeah, design's beautiful. Really love it. Thanks. >> Can you um So, it's 7 foot right from the the actual bronze sculpture. >> Yeah. So, the finished full size of this thing, it'll be 7 feet from the base. So, you know, if you're on the ground looking up, it'll be 9 feet up, >> you know, because the base is 2 feet. And then it'll be the those walls are five feet wide and then like six feet deep, you know. So the space where the eagle is down at the bottom is six feet. >> So it's going to be big. >> And I glad that Mark is here because we certainly are thankful for him. I think he was the original designer. >> And this looks very similar. Um we still have a male and a female which is good. >> Yeah. >> About that little eagle in the middle, >> but we can't stop everybody from causing trouble, but it's >> it'll be to what it was for sure. Sorry, >> Mr. Fman. It's It's pretty close to the original. >> It's constantly evolving. By the time art evolves as you're creating, >> we thank you for starting it because that was the original plan. >> Thanks. >> All right. Uh, we need a motion to recommend city council approval of the proposed agreement. >> Moved. >> Karen moves. >> I'll second. >> Sue seconds. All in favor? >> I. >> I. All right. If you need any help with the sledgehammers, Dave and Kyle know how to use one. >> Everybody should come to at least one floor. >> Be great to see. But no, thank you for coming out tonight. It was very e excellent. Thanks for your work. Alrighty, next item is Castlewood 2026 fees. Just pulling up some notes here really quick. So, um, with with the Castlewood, obviously, I think most the commission probably remembers that for some, um, you know, there's that golf management that that operates at Castlewood. Um, we do every year expect them to propose changes as needed um, for the fee schedule, which council does have to approve. Um so just as you read in the report there that there are some increases and um the the increases are are pretty pretty minimal. Um really what it is it's it's what they consider green fees. So basically if you go out there and you golf um you know you're using using the the tea boxes and just the general course and really the if you were just to drop by and go golf you know it's a dollar more for that round. And then what you'll see is the season pass. Um that price has gone up um basically between 30 and $35 for the season pass. And that's just based on typically the season pass they golf about 30 to 35 rounds. Um so they the forom try to manage and balance that increase of $1 per round into that season pass of people typically golf 30 to 35 rounds. So the the fees that the increases that we're seeing are are very minimal. um you know it's really to keep up with staff costs. They have um great retention there which is a good thing but with that you know you try to incentivize people to stay and you might pay them a dollar more an hour or something like that. So um those fees kind of are incorporated in that along with just the the tea usage. So the tea box usage. So nothing nothing crazy here but just the the um going through their steps of having to get this approved by council to to have these fees. So, um, just open it up for discussions if you guys have any questions. I have some answers if you need them. >> I do notice the junior fee stays the same, which know that course is that's a big attraction for the juniors. >> So, yep. Okay. Any questions, comments from members? >> I personally Somebody like to make a motion to recommend approval of the 2026 Castlewood fees proposed by Forsome. Right. Melissa makes that motion. >> I second. >> Sue seconds. All in favor? >> I see. Karen, we're getting motions to the left today, >> I guess. So, that's good. >> They've been good ones. >> All righty. Uh item 10, dog park. >> I think this one's uh going to be the hot ticket item, right? Um so obviously December meeting we we had some good discussions about dog parks in Forest Lake and um certainly there's enough reason to believe that there's uh a demand for dog park. There's a lot of information out there from folks in the past master plan that really wanted a dog park. um along with current residents. But really what we what we want to do is establish a plan and give this commission a chance to discuss some topics. Maybe if you've done some research yourselves now since that last meeting or just have had conversations with folks to see does this commission agree a with with pushing the dog park. Um just kind of knowing what you know now from from that December meeting. Um there are people again that that want that but just want to open it up to discuss and and really tonight is just to stay high level discuss do we want that maybe some questions the commission would like to see staff get some information back for February but we're not going to necessarily go into the weeds of planning one certainly we might if commission decides we do want to move forward with having a dog park we could just ask for some recommendations but to start just a general conversation about your thoughts on on a dog Mark Karen >> start because one of those rare things that I have to admit is that I made a mistake and tonight's one of those things and don't write that down. It's not >> it's in the minutes now. >> It's on tape. >> But um you know I'm not a acreage person and so three acres in a park I thought sounded pretty small especially with the help we had from a citizen showing us how many larger parks there are. So my mind went to we don't want to have such a small one that we're going to be wishing we had made it bigger. But Commissioner Gary who was in here today and I don't know if you have the pictures that you can show up here sent me a note. He from Florida >> and he had showed me the size of a dog park that they have there. And I was just blown away with how wrong I was with size. Again, you've heard conversation we don't make it too small. But on the other hand, we don't want to have something that we're not going to be able to get done either. So, um, pictures show a 1 something acre and they had 17 dogs there that day and 11 adults. Um, and I just thought to myself, wow, I got to forget that three acre thing. I don't I don't know that we need a >> I think for believed it last time. I think for a visual the what I easiest for me to grapple is one acre is the size of a football field. >> Oh, >> so if you think a threeacre football field, three acre dog park is three football fields. >> So that's a visual that I uh >> he went according to lot sizes and he was showing me how many lots it would take to make the three acres and I just went wow this is this is something we have to hold back on. Granted, there maybe are larger ones, but um I do think with our community that it would be an okay thing. Then my second point was I wanted it to be where everybody chooses to have their walking dogs over by off of 202. I was firmly committed in my mind then that that would be the ideal spot. They're already using it with their dogs and it's an open space. But then I found out that the airport has some sort of a rule that you can't congregate people. They walk there, but you can't congregate would be we would be doing cong. I would like to still argue at the airport, but you know, some people would sit there. I guess they call that congregating. So I I would ask for some recommendation on is that true or what we can do. So that's my thought. We I still think we badly need one. I'd like to start soon. Um size would be printed. >> So we go back to the >> location. So So Sue, you've Go ahead, Sue. >> Yeah. So do we go back revert back to the public works new public works location? That's three acres, right? >> Yeah. A good I was just going to say how Tim Gary had sent these. Uh another good point of reference is Belts Park. Belts Park is 2.8 8 acres. >> Yeah. >> So if you think of that size, that's that's what that's what 3 acres would be for a the size that was I think it was 2.6 some acres. So relatively basically the same size as Belts Park would be what was proposed. >> That's a little different perspective on it for me and >> sometimes it's it's probably myself and Kyle's fault. We know what three acres is. probably didn't pray that well enough to give you something to compare that to where when three three does if you just hear three it sounds small but it's it's a quite a big big >> I think one thing too is you know we don't necessarily tonight have to come back to a spot and and I and I do I will um you know with with Steve coming to that last meeting I think there's a good idea to vet out other spaces too and just say hey what's available um the biggest thing is yeah, what's going to get a dog park soonest is certainly a item we should discuss, but it's something that you know it's always a great I mean right we the bigger the better right we all we all want that but we also have to say what comes with that what costs are associated and what space do we have to give so certainly I think it's fair to say we want to do a lot of research and if there's some space that works that are larger I don't think there's anything wrong with that but um appreciate the yeah conversation so keep that keep that going and Keep that in mind. >> So since Go ahead, Aaron. >> I was just going to say if say we went with the one that was proposed before as that's a stepping stone, right? Cuz we don't know what the attendance going to be. Is there going to be a congestion issue and all of that? It might turn out no issue, but if it does, would there be an option down the road as far as the parks plan to do two separate parks? So maybe a small small breed park and a large breed park. You know, if I'm bringing a big great Dane to go run, you know, it's probably better he's not running around bunch of little dachshunds and beagles. >> So since the >> I did have one thing to say that that's the placement and I and I get that the reason and that was talked about that's like crash or whatever. But having it somewhere where people could could walk to it would be nice. And that's the one drawback I see to the environmental center is you have to drive there. You really can't walk there unless we're planning on >> that's the one drawback. >> The public works site or proposed will connect the Hardwood Creek or the the trail on headarters. There'll be a north south trail that'll go up to 202 which then will connect to Good View and all. So it it'll connect that loop of trails. So you'll be able to cross that headarters hour at 200 second. It'll get you all the way west and go north. Was part of the the public works plan. They and it's our kind of our rule that we have to extend pedestrian facilities when we create those roads. >> So Kyle said some highle thoughts today of where we're at. Um, and Karen, appreciate your comments, too, on the on on the from last meeting. Uh, I think it's safe to say that you aren't going to find probably an issue for this commission there. You people feel so strongly on both sides of this issue when dogs are involved, right? >> And I've been a dog owner for 30 years except for the last couple of years. So, I love dogs. Uh, and I certainly see the need for a dog mark, but I think there's some things we need to think about before we say let's charge ahead. Uh, first of all, there's not there's not agreement that dog parks are good for dogs. Uh, I found a 2020 study that shows that 80% of the dog parks have diseases from all the fecal matter and one in five dogs that was tested across the country had parasites in them. And so, there's not agreement that dog parks are the best thing for dogs. Uh, dog fights are going to happen. uh we're not going to control that. You heard the lady earlier in a not even a dog park that's going to happen and that was that's going to happen. We just have to be aware of that. Um but I think the other thing that we haven't talked about yet and I would ask I think we should have staff look at it is what are the costs of this park. Uh for example, one acre of fence is going to be $25,000. So we can do the math if it's a 3 acre 10 acre and that's just the fencing of a loan. But what are the rules going to be? uh looking at other parks, some require that the dogs are immunized, aren't in heat, so forth. But then who's going to enforce that? So I think there's some research that has to be done before we get into this. If we just suddenly fence up an area and let people start bringing dogs there, we're going to have problems we without thinking this through. And then there's the other issue is that there are parks that actually are considering Carver County is one of them shutting down their dog park because the reality is is people say they're picking up the fecal matter but they're not. And now we're looking at public works staff out there doing that or what. So thinking through what the rules are going to be, how this is going to work. I think there's agreement to have a dog park, but I think taking a step back, having staff take some time to think these things through, do some research. what are the rules going to be and then we can and then it's going to be easiest to put some parameters what we're looking for for a site whether it's the public works site or whatever and um and move forward but I think to say right now let's build a park let's use the public works site I think there's some issues and policy issues we should think through first before we we jump ahead on it >> some of that not much because you know there's always going to be reasons why not to do something but living here in this community and talking to people and I have not have a dog. They've been waiting and waiting for a dog park and they don't see those surveys. Judge Judy all the time if you watch it about problems. There's problems all over but and I think we have to be good about knowing that and researching it and have I almost heard a hold back time and and I'm not at Rotary when three of the students came from the high school. What do you guys think about a dog park? Oh, one of them said, "My mother would do anything to get a dog park. She goes down to White Bear." So, the other guy said, "What about you?" And he says, "My aunt would be here in a second. We've been waiting and waiting for a dog park." So, while I think there's issues, I don't want to say tonight yes or no to the site that was presented. >> Right now, I'm a little negative on that, but not 100%. I've learned now I have to but I'm not I'm really not in the mood to step back and have this go into research mode and who knows we've got people excited now the chamber came I think we have to keep at it and >> no I appreciate that the um recognizing it's January and the dog park's in the 2027 CIP so the dog park is not in this year's CIP key. So, we've got a whole I should step back is the wrong word. I think we have to do due diligence and be responsible, not just let's just jump into something. There's there's what are the policies the city ordinances are going to be because, you know, we're going to have issues and Karen, I don't want to see people here saying, "Hey, you built a dog park and what are the rules and this is a problem." And now we've got a now we have a problem. Let's we've got time. This isn't this is not in the CIP for this year. It's in 2027. So step back, strong word. Let's just do our due diligence over the next over the next year and then we're ready to roll in 2027 and put a dog park in place. >> I was just going to say like you're concerned with like people not picking up. You got feal matter all over the place. I mean technology is a great thing these days. We have cameras that you can use. You can have the depends on how the city wants to go about it. You can have kind of the wall of shame. You can get really good pictures of people having their animals do what they're doing and just walking away and say, >> and that's my point exactly, Erin, is that we need to think this through, what are we going to do? Uh, cameras and other things cost money and also just privacy issues. So, if we don't if we don't think through how this dog park is going to operate, we're going to have it's we're not doing our job. I I would just say it's it and I go ahead, K. >> Can we at least start looking at different areas? I mean there I think you needed to know soon whether or not that would be included in the public works or not and I had heard last time that there wasn't a lot of love for that space but I can we at least start looking at a space so that we can keep the >> I think um I think yeah as far as what we were here last month to talk about getting in the planning I think that's kind of come and gone. That doesn't mean that that site's gone necessarily. It just means that it's it's that discussion during building talk has already kind of moved on. The biggest thing tonight would be to just make sure that this commission um is interested majority of this commission's interested in a dog park and then we can as staff start to do that research and bring things back. You know, it could be back on the agenda two three more times in the next 3 4 months and to say here's some things we found out. So, it's really tonight is just to say, is this commission um in favor of pursuing the dog park seeing that it's in the 27 CIP? Um just because like that's why we wanted to bring it back here to make sure that you guys thought that there was a need for it and and are hearing that too. So, really tonight, give us the Yeah, we we're interested in seeing a dog park go up and then we don't have to have a hard deadline of by March we have to have it planned. it can just be a throughout the year we piece this thing together um as we responsibly put together what policies would look like and um and then certainly at some point can bring back the where how many acres and expenses and all that. So >> that's the best place for it. I just Everywhere you go, they should be on a leash. On a leash, that's not really awful, but >> I think we've had the most community engagement about the dog park. In my time on the commission, I've heard more about dog parks than I've heard about anything else. >> So, I think we definitely need one. But I do kind of side with you. We need to make sure all the eyes are dotted and tees are crossed. >> We've been talking about it since 2013. So a lot of time of talking about it and now I just don't like to see pushing it back. I'd like to see as much possible to put as much time in as as they have to keep it. >> It's going to happen. >> I'm with you, Karen. Moving it forward though in a way that we're thoughtful about it. So when it goes to the council, they can see we fully vetted. I mean, if I'm a council member, I would ask, "What are the rules going to be for dogs there?" And we don't have that. >> There was one on the film of the ones the rules they made, and I think we can research that. We're not making the first dog park. No, absolutely. We've got a lot of dog parks out there. >> Absolutely. >> I could make it like gloves and just have a wooden fence around, but I think we owe it more to our our dogs and our community to do what's right and to do it as soon as possible. >> Yep. And I I think that's the the biggest point is that dog park funded in 2027 was put together on a CIP by myself without this commission being here. So I think what we're trying to make just kind of like the castlewood irrigation that was on there before the commission came on. The commission said, you know what, we maybe need to step back and look at that before we spend this kind of money. We're just reaffirming that this is something you want to do. If if majority of the commission tonight said no, we don't want a dog park, well then K and I will quit working on it. We would take that off the CIP and not spend our time dealing with it. We just wanted to reaffirm that. Let's spend some time on this. To U Commissioner Tiesson's point is let's let's take some time. We don't have until 27, but let's we I wrote down a whole bunch of notes. I'm sure Kyla too of the rules, different kind of sizes, locations, all that. we can work through that all of 2026 and then be ready with a plan in 2027 to say we have funding, we have a plan, let's build it or we might at the end of it say geez I don't know we got a lot of negative stuff here maybe we want to push this out five years and you know you know what I mean maybe there's you know we've we come through all >> we come through all these studies that you know Don pointed out that diseases and all that and we find some you know really bad stuff that we might not want to put ourselves in that that that area that we say maybe we need to hold on this. So I truly vetting it out is the important part. I think that's why this commission is here and that's why we want to do that. So as long as we have a reaffirmation that we want to spend time on this and start doing some research and looking into it. That's the direction we need tonight and we will start plugging away and you'll see it pop up on a future commission meeting for discussion. It might just be a discussion about rules. We might spend 20 minutes talking about here's a bunch of rules. What do you think? Or one might be just on location and size. Kyle and I might spend some time and find a whole bunch of 3 to 5 acre spots or different size spots and say, "What do you think of these?" And these are in the spots of the city. So, I think it's a great plan to slowly do this throughout the year. And kind of like we're doing with the park tonight, we're just slowly come taking a plan and bringing it from the beginning to the end instead of just making a rash decision. The only reason why the public works works site was on there is because they needed to know should we keep it in the plans or should we just take it off the plans. It doesn't to his point too, it's it's not that it's gone. It's it's just not in their plans anymore. >> Well, I think you hear consensus from the group here tonight, Dave and Kyle. So, >> and I will just note um with that airport space, that crash a landing um the the deal is is that uh the city does not allow for any structure um or tree to be constructed, altered, maintained or allowed to grow in that airspace. So, that's what ultimately and like Karen mentioned to have a congregation of people there. So, if in that airport space that was brought up in December, if we can't put a fence up there, we can't plant trees. So, you're just going to have a wide open space. That's not a dog park. So, just just a we'll have that saved if it comes up in future conversations. But just a note from that, too. >> And Kyle, that's not You said city, but that's actually an FAA. >> Yeah. >> Rule, right? On C. It's category A, I think, or something. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> That's Yeah. Ruled by the FA. >> Short. You don't want to hit them much. >> People can walk through there, but this we can't do anything to promote a gathering. >> That That's why that trail isn't black topped as well. We can't promote people walking down there. We can allow people to walk down there, but we can't create a a black top trail through that area to promote people to to use it. >> Yeah. And that's I know that's been brought up as a place for the dog park with convenience the Fenway. I mean, I used to walk my dogs out there. So, just so just can't make it we just can't formally call it a dog park. So, >> Yep. >> All right. Any other comments on that? I got you almost agree all the way with me, Karen. >> Yeah, it's just such a disappointment that we can't get it into this year. Then it goes to the next year and then it's pretty talking a good two years before a dog's going to run in that park. And >> well, that's the nice thing about that CIP, right? It's it's ear you're marked in there and if things keep getting approved, you certainly have. It's just like Bay View Park. It was in that CIP for this upcoming 26 and we're doing that. So that's that that's that protection of the CIP. >> All right, let's move to item 11, Bay View Park Reconstruction Project. >> So just as you read in the in the memo, um we have a lot of details uh in regards to Bay View. Um we've talked about this I think in the December meeting as well. um just to get an update of of what items we were talking about putting in there. We have um the proposed project timeline and then the results from the survey that was put out in postcard to the I think there was about just under 300 homes that postcards went out to. So we got 44 responses which is you know not I mean 10% over 10% that's >> I think the number I've heard thrown around quite a bit when you do these type of mailings. So um certainly enough to say that we you know we have pretty good good numbers to to have discussion. So um yeah just looking for for some discussion there and um if you guys have any questions about any of that we'll have a discussion >> on the basketball. Would you either or or is it either shorter or >> adjustable? Like can you do >> if it's adjustable? >> That's that would be certainly the concern. Um you you can there's many options you can get for these types of uh outdoor hoops. You can get one to set um like youth typically you don't see it much lower than like 8 foot. Uh standard is 10 foot high for hoops. Um you can go as low as seven. The concern is the lower you go, you know, the older kids might come and dunk and that might break rims and stuff like that. But, um, I would I mean, I would say we would look into kind of all those options and ask, um, some of the the vendors that that sell the equipment, how often does it come back in broken if it is adjustable and and all that. But certainly, I think when I read over those things, I think that's a good point because we have Belts Park that has the full court. So to certainly give maybe something that the younger kids can shoot at, I think is a is a good idea. >> That's what I was wondering, Kyle, is if you just put shorter hoops there and then you've got the investment at Bells with the larger hoops and seems like that park is geared towards smaller kids with in the neighborhood. talk about the basketball court. >> Yeah, the the ser so we kind of agreed as a commissioner. We hit every other spot except for did we want a b the basketball court to remain? Do we want green space? And I think was there was an other if somebody had any other suggestions other than the green space of the basketball court. Um we you know we are going to talking about the picnic shelter. So there's a shade shelter that would be built in. Um I think we've discussed the portaotty item is um while certainly it might not look great. You got young kids coming to the park and all that. So you know certainly to to do something there um seems pretty pretty reasonable and and we've been doing it. comments here. One's quite a lengthy comment. I didn't read that, but person who lives next door. >> So, I think it was October or November. Um, the commission discussed uh maybe moving I think it was commission or was that staff that discussed >> about moving, you know, potential move of playground. um so we could work on the playground but keep the current one open and then you know tear it down after we have it completed but that would mean moving it closer. So, I had went to the two houses that are on either side of the park and the long response you see is is one of those homeowners just reiterating not wanting that playground to move closer to her property line, which I think we ultimately came back and said that that we got that feedback. So, the layout would be very similar to what it is now, moving nothing closer to her property line for the playground. >> Yep. >> Yes. like a top there. >> Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good. >> Good catch there, Melissa. >> All right. Uh Dave, you got enough direction? Uh we just need to know the direction of if we want to go with the survey and what what we think if we want to include that basketball court in in the final design that we come back with February to get your blessing to go out for for bid or if you want to pick with the green space or another that hasn't been discussed yet. Aaron, I mean, I think the folks that took the time to respond, I mean, when you look at the majority rules, 52% says they want a basketball hoop >> and for little kids. So, and I think that it makes good sense. It's what what is that? Not even a half a mile. >> Yeah. If you need a taller hoop, you can make it the half mile to Bel Park, >> right? >> Like you got heads nodding on that. >> Okay. not listen >> basketball court for smaller kids. >> Yep. Yep. Yeah. Then we will be back in February with the final cost estimate and a kind of a concept design picture where everything's going to be laid and hopefully get your blessing on that and then we'll put that out for our RFP that to get that still built this year and up and running by sometime in 2026. one person. >> We could surprise them if we really want to. >> All right. Anything else on that one? >> All right. Item 13. Holiday hometown holiday drones. >> Nope. Number 12. >> Yep. >> Basketball court or volleyball courts. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> More sports. >> I'm sorry. Uh this is a sand volleyball court thing. >> Yep. So as part of the belts rehab, uh we had to take out the volleyball courts because that new ADA ramp goes up there and we we I think we it was November, October, we threw out the idea was do we not want the courts there and it was pretty overwhelming that we wanted to keep the courts there. So internally staff kind of worked out a layout and also trying to multi-purpose the ice rink that also that uh council or commission wanted to keep see keep seeing the ice rink there too. So we tried to design where we could put volleyball courts where the ice rink is. So in the winter you can use a you can flood the sand and have an ice rink. In the summertime it's sand courts. we can utilize the lights that use light up the rinks in winter and actually be able to light up the volleyball courts during the summer months. Um kind of took all that in uh consideration attached to kind of a map of where we're thinking they would they would go um and give you a rough cost estimate of what that would cost. this would qualify for park dedication dollars because you'd be creating that new structure, buying new infrastructure for this, you know, volleyball courts. So, we're really looking for that is what do you think of the layout? What do you think of the idea? And are you would you feel strongly recommending that $14,000 be estimated 14,000 being spent to put this together? Must be a little kids baseball. >> There's it's I think it's used as kind of like a backup space, but no traveling leagues or anything will use it for a game space. I think they'll use it for their really, you know, eight-year-olds. Um, and we're going to maybe test it out in running a kickball for adults. But I think we'll look at that determination. I think I think the GIS 130 ft or something we were thinking which would be plenty of space for small we're not using it for official games so certainly that fuel would still be able to be you used um and for anything that it's currently being used for >> y so the goal would try to be to get it located where the proposed parking lot could have been or might be at some point we're trying to keep it out of the way of that so that could be built at some point if it needs to We're trying to shift it as far to the northwest to get as much outfield for Kyle mentioned. We'll try to our goal is to try to get it to 150 ft. And that's a pretty standard uh little kid ball field and then stay away from Kieran's favorite uh hole in the ground there, too. So, we're trying to hit in the middle of that, but still make it functional. >> But you took out my favorite of I I don't like squeezing everything in. save that spot for maybe a parking lot down the road. >> Um, it's never been a popular item, a a parking lot there. I know it's a problem right now. There were two young people um at the skating rink. I think that whole ice thing is a problem now that they can't get up to the cars and and watch the kids when it was house open when there's no one there, weather's been bad. Not keeping it open, then they're going to freeze to death. So, I'm not so sure that I'm ready yet to say that that sand volleyball park doesn't go exactly where it was before and well used problems down the line with that space, but always been from people I've talked to in other commissions want to keep that space open for parking. So, I wouldn't be in favor of the layout, but I'm very much in favor of bringing that back. Everybody's we promised them that, too. It's not going away. It's just going to be later. So, I would really like to see the volleyball court back at Belts. >> Where would you like to see it if it's >> I would still like to see it where it was. >> You can't go there because that's where the pedestrian ramp is. That's why we had to get rid of it the first place because there's a a ramp there that goes up to the playground. >> Doesn't show the picture doesn't show the ramp. >> Talked about this. I was told we couldn't because we wanted to make sure if we're going to make it a a forever, we're going to do something more on the base if we were just talking about maybe we could just put it up and just have it like it was before. So I never heard that it was in the way of anything. >> Are we talking about the ice rink or are we talking about the volleyball court? >> Volleyball. >> Oh well, it makes sense to have that piece of land be double duty. Band in the summer and ice in the winter. I love the using the >> and it's um with the lights too, right? That's a that's a benefit of having them together no matter what. And then Ken say and um certainly public works staff that spend a lot of time on those rinks would say like belts is pretty rough just with the ground. It's unlevel. So, if you you double up with the rink being with the sand, you have a nice level ground for flooding and then you get a a way better consistent freeze, too. Um, versus we have some boils that that pop up through belts and the ice typically is the first to um out of the three rinks, this one goes away the fastest with the warm weather. So certainly for the the the usage of the rink the those two should go hand in hand um just with the with the space but >> your liners >> was saved because again it's the only neighborhood little spot that people can go with their kids and play and now if you're thinking something adults and I'm playing sand volleyball and I got people hitting baseballs behind from a standpoint of saving any money. It probably is good. And maybe I just I just can't see the two, but I'm only one vote, so that's okay. Any other comments? There is a motion that staff has recommended to us. Based on all the factors you've looked at, Dave, this is the best place that you think for the fort as you put in your memo. I'm just I know it looks like it's condensed, but it's done for that reason. So, you do preserve that large green space on the other side. If you put the volleyball carts over there, all of a sudden, now you've just taken a 100x 100 chunk of green space and put a volleyball cart in it. it. I understand it looks like we're trying to jam everything in one spot, but we are kind of d trying to preserve as much green space. It's kind of a a worthless spot. Not a worthless spot, but a spot that we can get this area, we can save all that green space on the, you know, the northeast corner >> football game. And you're not saving that entire corner for a huge parking lot. The parking lot would be the same size as it was. It's just the ice rink and the green space would stay in that. >> It's a It's a 16 spot lot. That's basically where the trail runs. You just would add 20 ft on both sides to create parking stall. So, you would still keep that trying to keep as much green space as possible and andor there might be some other great idea that comes along the line that we want to add this to an amenity at Beltsburg. I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on here, and the more stuff you add, you're probably going to want to say we're probably going to have to have some parking here, too. So, we just don't want to build something over top of that and go, "Okay, well, now we got to move the volleyball court 50 ft to put in something." We're just trying to strategically think of where to put things without having to do things twice. Just like moving the volleyball court, we really don't have to move it again. still have as far as the sand volleyball. We had a citizen come forward with a great plan. I guess sand volleyball has leagues and great opportunity to share with us. We all love to report. It went nowhere. But again, if we would do something like that, it might be that we want to have a little bit more private space for that. If I mean, I just think we're going to talk about things. We should talk about things a little bit more than just putting it there and saving. We've been saving that green space and I know the only conversation I've heard is from the city's standpoint is parking lot and all the other community pe people I've heard about is they'd like more park amenities there. So again, I don't want to go along with whatever you do, but like squishing that together and or what? I don't know. But >> I would like to get that if we still have it available, her report. >> I um I actually did watch that um report. It was several years back. But she had mentioned, you know, upwards of like four to eight courts for the tournaments, they wouldn't be able to do any tournaments there. It'd be, you know, if there was only two courts, they could just do their practices. Um certainly what we see in the recreation world is if you have like a sand volleyball court that's used for leagues or tournaments, typically it's partnered with like a split rocks where they have eight volleyball courts up there with the bar and restaurant. Um so that's kind of certainly we we are open to those ideas cuz that's recreation programming, but it's just kind of knowing that this is this would it would be ideal to be able to say we would do it, but I don't know that it would be a a great spot just with the limited parking alone. Um, so we I mean certainly we can revisit that because I think I mean we want to vet out those opportunities for sure if they come. But I know um the other challenge about if you move that court to the north further back where it was before and we would again we'd want to double it as the rank now you're getting away from the warming house and um and then you know having to have some sort of additional light setup. So, I think I think with staff are we're pretty set on best practice for us would be to put that rink with the court um just with even just the level ground alone would would make it a lot a lot better for us um with that flooding process. So, >> is that set in stone with the warming house where it's at? I mean, it's it's a small building. So, I don't know if >> say because if instead of having the rink there and the volleyball court right there, if you moved it to that green space that's currently green space now and then now you have a lot of green space with the field. So, you're still keeping green space. You're just moving where that green space is located. cost of moving the >> I was I was just going to say it's not just moving but yeah that's >> power and all that good stuff >> which is not really planned for at this time I don't think for funding but certainly something to think about >> Karen >> because I thought we had discussed when we first started up the commission how potentially that corner was going to be a like multi-purpose hockey like hockey rink with basketball courts and other stuff potentially >> that was way back in the fir one of the first master plans or renition >> completely scrapped. >> Yep. And that the warming house was going to get torn down and become a year round um like a place you could rent plus heated bathrooms and all that with a warming house tied into it and it was just too expensive. That kind of got kicked off of that grant and that program. So just to be fair, I mean we when we we asked these questions, right? We asked, "Do you really want a valuable card here?" The answer is yes. Do you really want is this location you want a valuable card? Yes. Is this really want where you want an ice rink? Yes. So we're trying to put it in there. I mean, there's multiple places to put this. If we want to look at a place where you can put four volleyball courts, this this park wouldn't be the place. I mean, if that's what we want to do, we would have to go and look and find other areas. We're just trying to stay within kind of what we got told is yes, we want a pleasure rink for kids to stay here for as long as everybody wants and we want to bring the rinks back. So then we just try to dual purpose that with saying >> we might as well put in two volleyball courts because that would be the size of a rink. So you can actually get two courts instead of one and then you can dual purpose everything. >> But if that's that's not what we want to do then that's fine. We can say we don't want any of them here. We want to do this somewhere else. We're just kind of following what we've been staff was told to to look into. >> I will say that that these particular volleyball courts are more about pickup games and this is where the kids were on they go to outside of their regular practice times. That's what I was told by a volleyball gal that came to the Rotary that um this that's where they make their friendships, their bonding is at that court. And them better than driving past that park and seeing a pickup out there playing volleyball. So, um yeah, I would just like to see them back there and I think using the dual to me makes sense >> for the cost of 14,000. I mean, that's okay. >> My last comment was we had talked about moving that ice rink all together and you were going to do Are we done with discussing that that maybe isn't the best? >> I think the general consensus was yeah that that rink was preferred to be there but yeah we do have you know we we staff the warming houses seven days a week. Of course, this year it's been all over the map with warm weather and then now we have cold weather coming of course too. But um our the the warming house staff they do document every night. Um part of that conversation was yeah belts numbers are very low. The rinks uh is it a th000 hours per rink. So about a th000 hours of man man time labor time goes into those rinks. So it's looking at yeah just certainly Belts Park might just be that place where we always have a skating rink. That's that's fine. But it's just to say we have a lot of resource that goes into that. To only have 20 to 35 people show up a week. Yeah. It's it's a great spot and we love it there. But is it you know when we're seeing Tower certainly there's two ranks at Tower and it's hockey. It's more um popular, but we're seeing 200 plus a week if not more now um this year when we've been open. And so it's just kind of saying yeah and and those discussions did happen at one point in time and I think the idea was just keep seeing you know what the attendance was like um with consistent opening so it's hard with bad weather but th those discussions in my mind I think are still on the table and certainly it could be something where maybe we're unsure about the courts just to kind of summarize this report and we spent quite a bit of time on it. can maybe say think another month or come at it with a different angle. I I don't know what you suggest. >> Yeah, we're looking for directions. So >> So I think we came we came >> So does somebody want to make a motion that on this? >> I mean they they had they had volleyball courts before we did the the updates to Bel Park and now they don't. So for me, I'm fine with it. And it makes sense to have the sand >> for a nice base to be able to put down your hockey rink with the liner and not have to worry about the issues you're seeing currently. >> Right. But it's where I taught myself. >> Melissa, you want to make a motion? >> Motion. I make a motion to recommend that the city council approve installation of the new volleyball court at Belts Park using the dedication funding. >> Thank you. Second. I'll second here in a second. Any more discussion? All in favor? >> I opposed. >> I >> Okay, that passes. All right, thanks everyone. Now we'll get to a fun one. Hometown Holiday Drones. So, um, just with events with city, uh, city programming, you know, that's always in the back of staff's mind, my mind, I should say, that, uh, you know, every year grow it a little bit, make it a little bit better. Um, draw some attraction to to an event. And this is just an idea that that came up um with with some opportunity. There's a there's several cities that have added or have been doing like a fireworks show as part of their Christmas tree lighting. Certainly, um could be a great event to look at as a draw for the community. We we get pretty good attendance down there already. So, it's not to say that we have to do something very drastic, but uh certainly could be looked at as a good overall community ad for uh an event, you know, ran ran through parks and um certainly fireworks the 4th of July are very it's big, right? Draws a lot of people into the city. Um so, it's just to say, do we want to um take a chance and do some research, more research on something like this? Um, it certainly comes at a cost, but uh, it could be unique. How many people have seen a drone fireworks show and said this could be kind of that thing where it gets people talking about Forest Lake, come to the parks and see our event. Um, it's certainly again it's a it's a take a shot up high. We don't it's not a everyone's doing it type of thing either. just it's just an idea that we wanted to throw by the commission and um I'll work on getting a little video clip up um that I had just to kind of give a visual, but certainly open up discussion, ask questions. >> Yeah. Um $17,000 for a 12-minute show. >> Mhm. >> I hear you say drone show or fireworks. >> Yeah. You know how they're coordinated and they they all light up into design in the sky? I didn't know what it meant when it was a dividing. It was one or the other. Either you get a drone show or you get fireworks. >> Fireworks. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like a fireworks show that show that's happening with drones instead of fireworks. we're talking about. Actually, we're not in the horror. >> So, the drones themselves light up and it looks >> it would be a >> he has a he has a pretty good video if you can get it loaded up where you can kind of visually see what what so it wouldn't be um this is a a large drone. It obviously is a larger um city display, but what the drones do is they they kind of they basically act as fireworks, right? They produce images into the sky. Um they can, you know, you can see they can move. Um you can do like logos, you can, you know, do Santa Claus with snowmen with reindeer. And I mean, they can kind of do whatever you want. You you get to design the show. >> Um it's and it can be it's all based on the numbers of drones. So, if there's a 100, it's a little less details. If there's 500, there's way more details. Of course, 500 drones cost a lot more than 100, and that would be kind of the category we're in. But just maybe an opportunity for parks to to go out and even work with maybe some community partnerships. Um maybe some sponsorship opportunities just to see if businesses want to try to, you know, again, Fourth of July, we have a huge draw of people. This could be kind of that winter draw. Christmas tree lighting, you know. Um, we put we put a lot of time and effort into that. So, try to get as many people down there and get some excitement. One downside of it is if you do it one year, you probably are looking at doing it expected, you know, to do it year after year and trying to keep up with that can be tough. But just wanted to throw out there a different idea and see how the commission felt about, you know, we it's not a let's go book, but just spend time looking into it or maybe something for down the road. >> Okay. I do think that uh the hometown holiday it would be a good addition. We need to we need to amp it up a little bit down there. I mean it's a good draw right now, but we do need to amp it up. >> It's time too to talk to different community people about what they or maybe what they could even do. >> And I bet when I think of fireworks, I think, oh, these are pictures, right? >> Yeah. They're they're images. Um there's audio. Yeah, >> there's audio that can go with that they can kind of give a firework, you know, but that that would be the thing is we could talk about a firework show as well. Um, that that's common. It's just the challenge of typically the fireworks are shot off from the lake. So that time of year you're running a big risk of planning fireworks if it's frozen. Yeah. >> Um, >> debris in the lake. >> Yep. So >> draw just as many as the fireworks. kind of another level. >> Yeah. >> Can we also say what other alternatives could we use $17,000 for to make it a good party, too? >> I I'm just I mean, is there other options? Because like to your point, that's a short show. >> Yep. >> And that's a that's a big bang. >> Yep. So, I mean that big thing. Can they do more more stuff handed out? >> You know, like we're doing the hot chocolate and stuff, you know, more kids toys and >> more more stuff like that for people to actually go do rather than sit and wait for a 12minute show. >> I think people would like that show. And I bet you could get some businesses to donate money too. >> Sponsor. That's that's kind of where we don't necessarily have this budget in for 26. You know, it's just kind of an idea to run off and say maybe we get some excitement around it. Talk to businesses, see if they want to, you know, do a joint venture and and sharing some car costs. We do have sponsors for that event already. Um that do you know that do give for the Santa um some other uh um you know, other the the events, the entertainment, the the tree lighting itself. Um, so there's already some sponsorship going on there, but certainly maybe some more um to seek and I know there's always people that check in with us to say, is there more that you guys do that we can sponsor? Um, but more so just an opportunity to say, hey, do we want to pursue it and see? And maybe it's we get a really negative feedback on it and not for this year and we say, okay, we don't have the budget anyways, per se, but yeah, we can certainly look into some other ideas, too. It just was kind of like the the go big idea here and see kind of how you guys receive that. >> Anything like will be >> that's that's that's the sweet spot really do that and then draw people in. >> I don't know of any cities that have done a drone show. um you know there's as far as like our scale right you get like big cities down in Texas and stuff like that or you know um Kansas cities and all that but as far as like our size of city I don't know of any like I said there are some fireworks and that was kind of the idea of this is maybe it's something different where people go a drone show and want to check that out so that that was kind of part of the idea I I can't say I've confidently looked into all the um you know cities around us But I, you know, for the most part, vetting out uh what people are doing for their holiday parties, I can say I haven't seen anything like that. >> Kyle, my my only comment is it's an interesting idea, but you know, every month something new is coming here for you to work on, and I don't want to manage your time, but you also only you don't you don't there's only so much you can do in a year, right? Y >> and I you and Dave I think it's I'd prefer that you whatever we do we do it really really well and not a lot of stuff halfway you know we got the gold fish we got the farmers market that's kicking off so I know research may not take a lot of time but I would just ask you to be cognizant of that is that every time something new comes up as you said this will not it'll go forever uh just got to be careful how much we try to chew off and make sure what we do is just excellent versus just partial and we just talked about the doing more work on the dog park, right? So I just raised that and our job is not to manage your time but we also we need to respect it when we give you direction. So >> absolutely. >> All right. So I think you got some head nodding that for with what I just said. If you can do if you have if it if it works explore it. So, all right. And another new item, city hunting regulation item 14. So, again, just another um item to to discuss here with uh park usage. um you know there's a lot of opportunities that you get with with other cities um for hunting and right now Forest Lake doesn't really um we we kind of it's it's a it's a gray area right now um and the answer is no a lot of the times so it's been brought up enough that we feel like we should just bring it up to discuss. We don't have a we don't have a a good hunting ordinance involved. Certainly you do see especially in areas like ours where we're kind of suburb kind of rural um where hunting is is done often and not everyone has good access to do it. So it could certainly be done safe safely. Um and there's a lot of you know ordinance and regulations around that. A lot of planning with not just parks, it's PD, it's it's it's you know multiple departments, public works. Um, so it's one of those things just to again get a feel for the commission on, you know, maybe some thoughts, some questions that you guys would have around that. Is it something to maybe put into the 27 um bucket? We're just trying to get get it on the map to discuss. Uh certainly again as uh Chair Tyson said, we can't do everything all at once, but it's just to just to start that discussion knowing that residents do call quite often, especially in the fall um September, October when the specifically the deer season comes around and some bird hunting comes in too. So just to just to look at that, a lot of times it's said no no hunting in parks period. Um no exceptions, but it's certainly a a typical option that we do you do see with parks. Yep. It would be archery only for like public land spaces. Um that would be part of the regulation. >> Um yeah, uh Captain Hograph and myself have talked about it a couple times and basically what's discussed is that it it can be done but it just needs to have some time to spend on it. So there's an openness to discussing um on the PD side of things too >> high school about hunting. So I have to step >> Well, there's no ordinance at all when it comes to hunting arc or public lands around town. >> So specifically the hunting, correct? There's no there's no ordinance for parks. There is regulation on zoning of what where you can and can't hunt, but that doesn't really pertain to the public space. Um, I think it's the how the ordinance is. It just says that a weapon can be discharged. But when people do come to us to ask about hunting on city- owned property, the answer has been no. >> I know there's been a lot of comments about the duck hunting season because you hear a lot of across the lake and stuff. There's a lot of people that post, you know, they're asking questions, you know, what's going on and >> Yep. >> So, >> there's any reg regulatory effort on that or it's just you got a license, you go out on the lake and shoot the ducks. >> Some people might be concerned about that. >> There's, you know, the DNR regulations, right? Um, and that everyone has to follow that and that's first and foremost. Um but uh but yeah, I mean it's certainly just to vet out a lot of details about that in general, you know, would be probably a good idea. >> We are talking about city parks and city own land. There's somebody has a acreage in the private land out in the zoning allows that they can hunt. >> I I I wouldn't support hunting on city parks. I think it's a it's a slippery slope and it's going to cause more issues and problems. and let's keep our parks focused on recreation. Um, it's an enforcement issue. It's going to be an operational issue. Um, so as one member, I I'd be hardressed to say we should have city hunting on city parks. You say city parks, what I'm I'm trying to wrap my head around like where would this be? Belts, >> right? I understand. >> We just talked about Belts Park and volleyball parks and now we're talking about hunting in a >> in a park. So, I'm trying to understand because like you said, you drive down 97, we're very rural. So, I don't know what land area you are talking or referring to >> there. You know, it would be you look at a system and you would figure out which parks would support it, right? So, like cooling camp, you have some wooded areas that areed up to some wetland. >> We're actually saying city parks. >> Yep. >> Yep. And and certainly Yeah. like Belts Park, absolutely not. Um, Fenway Park, absolutely not. But, you know, some of those other areas that have some space, um, you know, typically we shut down parks. October 15th is kind of when we shut down systems. So, you'd look at saying, okay, you know, you'd have a hunting season start October 20th and run, you know, so on so forth and and so yeah, so it would be not just wide open, you know, it'd be very specific. I think in the past we've had people hunting in like BGsby um cooling camp as mentioned people have tried to hunt along like the airport and Fenway areas and stuff like that. So some of those areas that have larger space, people have tried or people do cross that boundary, but just certainly getting the general feedback to say, "Yeah, we don't really support that." Makes it easier to build that ordinance down the road, >> the wooded area, see where somebody would want to hunt >> in close proximity to these parks, you know, >> bow hunting. >> If it's bow hunting, I suppose >> I would Yeah. I mean, I would say if there's more opportunity to look at city- owned land that's truly rural and opening that up to hunting, then I would say yes. But a city park to me is no. Because then you get into the timing and you got the one guy who's like, "Well, I'm early. I'm an overachiever." Well, I've got you still got kids playing. I was going to say that they're that are ball hunting. >> Yeah. And there might there might be options for city- owned property versus parks, but back to Commissioner Tyson's comment before of using our time wisely. This this this is in the category of a lot of work and a lot of and it's not just The work would start when you said, "Yeah, we support hunting on city parks because then there's ordinances and then figuring out which parks you can and can't and acorage and then which zoning areas and then you'd have to modify the the old city ordinance and then really you you would be removed from this and then it would become a city council staff discussion." And um >> well I I cannot and it's if if the commission tonight said we fully support this is something we really want to look into. I think that it's under utilized activity in our park system that people aren't able to have clear direction on being able to hunt a deer in a city park then it's use of valuable time. If the consensus is, yeah, this isn't important on our radar and I don't think it's really that great of an idea, then we just we worry about when somebody else brings up hunting on public land and then we'd be asking the commission to comment on would you ever consider allowing them hunting on city parks. I guess is kind of what we're >> having our time trying to get a dog park. We can't be spending our time on hunting. First things first, there's far and few between the parks where they could hunt. So, I don't see where this would be a great use of >> you guys got direction on this then. Okay. All right. >> All right. Let's see. Let me make sure I don't miss one here. Number 15, Forest Lake Area Athletic Association Concession Operations Agreement. Uh, we have a amendment to the agreement. So yeah, the the agreement we did add just um a piece in there to say the city would shut down um by the second week of November. I think there was just a little miscue with um city staff and flaw about the shutting down of the concessions where um you know getting all like the pop out of there and everything. So just not nothing that was a big deal, but just gives a really clear outline of hey, we're going to shut this down just so FL also knows this is when to when to be out of there by and and then we're coming in to winterize and shut everything down. And that was something else that Flaw had been doing is they had been winterizing and this just again highlights that the city's going to be doing that. So we didn't have that in the original um that you guys had had a recommended approval on. And then I also have the um revenue and expense report as well that I will pull up and share with you guys. I didn't add it in the report. I will say I forgot to to add this as the attachment. So I apologize for that. Um Cindy, I didn't see you sneak in there. I'm I apologize. I just looked over there. Um Cindy, uh the flaw treasurer. Um this is just a an overview of the profit and loss statement pro uh provided by flaw just to show um that the revenue and expenses of of the concessions out there. So um flaw does have to staff it. It's very difficult to manage with volunteers um and understandably so. There's certifications for food safety and then making sure people show up and are reliable. >> Thank you for that. >> We have no problem with this. We just our information. >> Yep. Just as part of the agreement, we do we do kind of put in there that they'll provide this to us upon request, which I think we'll request every year just for full transparency, no questions asked. Um, just so everyone's aware of, you know, the concessions um operations just like we do with Forsome when we ask them for a month-to-month statement. Um, but yeah, I mean, no concerns on staff side. Um, >> yeah, it was brought purely asformational because the mo or the recommendation and you did approve this or recommended approval of this said that the council needed to see that we would approve it. They didn't they didn't recommend approving it until they saw the P&L statement. Since we had we had to go in there and modify the agreement, we figured we'd bring it back for you. So then you got some eyes on it too. So >> closing down that was agreement with FL as well. Closing down. >> It was agreed upon. There's I think it was uh a miscommunication like Kyle said, we're in there doing some maintenance work right now remodeling the bathrooms and we noticed that the heat was on in the concession stand. So it's been blowing in zero degree weather trying to keep that concession stand at 60°. So we kind of thought that maybe they kept it heated all winter long so then we'd have to really negotiate our utilities because that's how they were paying for it. But turns out they actually didn't know that it wasn't on either. So, we changed it to that we're going to be shutting it down. We're going to make sure the power is off. So, I think it's just to Kyle's point, it's it's clearly written in agreement who does what now instead of so we don't end up with this again where it's just heating an area where nobody's at. >> So, highlighted in yellow is the addition to this agreement from the last time we approved this. So, >> correct. >> Somebody like to make a motion to recommend approval of the city of Forest Lake concessions operations agreement. A motion. >> Aaron moves. >> Second. >> Sue seconds. Any more discussion? All in favor? >> All right. >> All right. Staff. Oh, sorry. >> Nope. Nope. Sorry. No. Keep rolling, Kyle. >> Yep. Just some staff updates. Um, one thing that came up an opportunity um if the parks commission just can just do a real brief. There's a lakes area expo um hosted by the chamber. There's been discussion about the city having um you know a spot at that expo. If we'd like to kind of highlight that if that's something that that this commission would like us to vet out, we can certainly do that and bring it back next month to discuss the options. But it would just be to get in front of people. I think that's a pretty popular um event and just a good time to get out in front of, you know, it's technically I think held at Marinatha. I don't know if that's where they're going. Um, but just an opportunity to get out there in front of people if the commission would like to do that. So, just real quick, if you guys have any feedback, I can just bring it back as a report in February, too. >> I think it's an excellent idea. Anytime you get in front of the public and they can ask their questions, it's a good idea. A lot of people go through there. Lots. >> Got heads down on that one. >> Yep. >> Um, wanted to talk about outdoor rinks. Just a quick update. We've been opening, closing, but uh um the public works staff has spent a lot of time getting those rinks ready when they can. Um we're very fortunate early on they spent a lot of time as public works staff spent a lot of time getting those rinks prepped. We were having ice while other rinks weren't even flooding yet and were able to get going a couple weeks early and then obviously the um warm weather kind of shut us down, but we're kind of back up and running. Looks like Friday we're going to have a cold weather shutdown. It's going to be 45 below with windchill. So, um just a heads up. Just wanted to do an update. Things are going great. Ice is great when we when we've been open. Um the hockey association has just been super appreciative having the addex for ice. Um so, everything's going well with that. Um farmer market staff is continuing to work work on that. Um I'll be meeting with White Bear staff who they run a they've run a market for a long time and a really successful one. Um they were more than happy to say we have a lot of vendors that apply that we can't take. They will certainly send them them our way with recommendations if they use them before or not. Um we're training on software this new software for scheduling park programming. A lot of cool stuff that we'll have access right at our fingertips and we'll help with some efficiencies with with the scheduling of facilities. That's um I think I've had two trainings on that. It's third one next week. Um, Arts in the Park, we're uh to the point where we've accepted or approved uh many vendors. We had a total of 90 applicants between the wait list and the current uh or the ontime application. So, we're getting to the point where we're getting handbook agreements out and back and then we'll start invoicing. So, kind of that question of when we're going to be billing. Um, we'll probably start sending out invoices the middle of February. Um, so it's about the time, you know, what we kind of anticipated, but that's well on its way and hopefully we'll be done wrapped up with all those details by the end of March. Um, master plan steering committee, we had our second meeting. Um, definitely a lot of items being thrown thrown our way with that, but it's been all pretty good and and rolling. We have one resident now who has stepped into being that on that steering committee. We'd like one more if possible, but um for the most part, I think everyone that you guys suggested to have on that steering committee is in place uh minus the one one out of two residents. So, that's been going good. Yep. And they'll they'll be uh um I believe it's going to be on park dedication study fees or park dedication fees is what's going to be. >> Oh, yeah. Um Josh with Bolton and Mink will be attending in February to to come with a update on that where we're at with that master plan. Um let's go fishing. They started bringing volunteers um with signups. The high school fishing team has they anticipate 80 plus students and the high school coach actually is making it a requirement that every kid spends at least one day uh volunteering for that program. So kind of a cool cool tiein and very appreciative um of the that coach doing that. um community guide flyer. Uh I don't know if you guys are familiar or not with that catalog that goes out, but we're going to have a arts in the park and a farmers market ad in that flyer and that should be going out I think sometime in February. Um and then we're also uh veterans memorial. We have 20 plus pavers being ordered already that the deadline's in March and typically we've only seen like 8 to 10 of those pavers being ordered. So certainly a lot more attention now that that project is underway. So I think yeah, I think we were at 21 orders as of today. Um and we have pretty much a month and a half left to go for that deadline. So um that's kind of just a quick summary for what I got. Dave, anything? >> Is that it all? >> Okay. >> I have a >> Yep. Go around the table here, Sue. Do you mind if >> No, absolutely not. >> Um, given that we've got the 250th anniversary of the country coming up this July 4th, >> are there any plans for park commission or the city to coordinate any efforts with the Legion about events and stuff like that? >> Uh, that's a a good question. I mean, we kind of it's not our event, so we we we coordinate with them. I I would assume they're already having their initial planning stages. They I believe we typically require them to come back to us at least 3 months before the event, if not sooner, to kind of give us an outlay of what their plans are, how they're asking us to assist with different or newer things that we haven't done before. I think then we'd probably get some ideas then. I would assume they're going to tie in that 250th. Um, >> yeah, if we could maybe get some kind of effort there to, you know, kind of find effort for this one time might be a good deal. >> I know I know the city has an agreement with the Legion where we share costs of fireworks. Um, so I mean that's how we we do um share some of those costs, but I know the city is heavily involved with resources of like safety. Public works comes down and and does a full sweep of Lakeside. So that's a lot of our resource that we put into that. So certainly we can I mean vet out some other conversations with uh event planning, but there's yeah there's a lot of discussion with PD support and fire support, public work support. It's a lot of manh hours that go into that whole event. That's kind of our resource shared into that. But certainly to your point, you know, with it being kind of a special year, you can certainly kind of vet out some conversations. >> Melissa, anything again? I would really like something with that. Something like um maybe get the city I'll put that fired up about it. really be nice to I wish it could part of like a winter fest or something like that. being a part of the celebrations with, you know, special >> don't disappoint all the people that are excited. >> We can't bring it up enough. We can't tell our community that we have not listened. items coming or keep the the dog park alive. It would be really good to the community because I'm going to hear a lot of stuff about You mean not doing it now? >> Oh, I think it's still alive, right? >> I think we heard loud and clear that we want to go full steam ahead with putting this together. So, I think you'll hear from us sooner than later. >> Yeah. And I Karen, it's it never was going to be this year. So, >> well, we could have if we said we could move that they'd have public works was 2020. >> No, the public works projects not till 220 probably 2028. But remember member, we sat here and said if you wanted to be quicker, we'd have to tell you that we're not going to do some of the other stuff on there and conversation, but we put it into this one, but we >> just saying. >> So, okay. >> Tell my community >> it's going to happen. Did more than try. It's going to happen. >> We'll get there. >> So, uh All right. Uh just for the other members, uh Karen and I were at the December 12 or January 12th council meeting. Kyle presented the annual report. Uh our parks that he did email everybody and uh we thank the c thank the council for their support and residents and certainly staff, especially Kyle and getting that $200,000 plus grant for that excellent uh memorial that's coming next summer. So, uh, council was thanked us for all of our work and they they know we're excited about 2026. So, with that, uh, motion to adjurnn. >> Oh, >> somebody >> make a motion to adjurnn. >> Okay. >> Second. >> Second. All in favor? >> I. >> All right. We're adjourned and safe travels home, everyone.