[Music] meeting to order. Abby, are you taking the role? Um, yes. If you're fine, I'd like to just note all um members present. No problem. That sounds good to me. Easy enough. Wait a I got a new agenda here, too. Yes, there is a revised agenda. All right, so we have a revised agenda. So, first up, uh we have a new member of the planning commission, uh Martin here, and we'll give him his oath, and then he will join us up on the day I see this. If you want me to get on my knees, that's Raise your right hand please and repeat after me. I Martin I, Martin do solemnly swear do solemnly swear to support the Constitution of the United States support the Constitution of the United States the Constitution of the State of Minnesota. Constitution of the state of Minnesota. to discharge faithfully and to discharge faithfully the duties of the planning commission for the city of Forest Lake, Minnesota. the duties of the planning commission for the city of Forest Lake, Minnesota. Best of my judgment and ability. Best of my judgment and ability. So help me God. So help me God. Thank you for joining the planning commission. [Applause] I did. We did take, but let's We can get a couple here if we'd like. Do we want to get it? Do we want the whole commission? Nope. We're good. No, not at all. I am Jesse. All right. I ask if you're able to please stand and join us for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Chair is looking for a motion to approve the agenda as presented or with changes. Motion to approve as presented. I have a motion. Do I have a second? Second. I have a motion and a second. It's a non-debatable motion. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. abstensions. Motion carries. We have come to the time of the open form. We ask if anyone would like to speak to any issue at all that uh please come up to the lectern and state your name and address for the record and then spend a couple minutes giving us your thoughts. Once we've heard from everybody, uh we will close the uh open form and move on to our consent agenda. So, would anyone wish to speak to the planning commission tonight? Seeing no one come forward, we will move to item six, consent agenda considerations. There's one item, A, approve the minutes from the regular meeting of April 9, 2025. Chair is looking for a motion to approve the consent agenda. Motion to approve the consent agenda. I have a motion. Do I have a second? I'll second it. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor signify saying I. I. I. Opposed. Abstain. Abstensions. One abstension. Oh sir, I apologize. I should have abstained also. Yes. So we have uh three eyes and three abstensions. All right, we'll move to item 8A, our PUD, concept plan review for the Forest Lake Garage Condos, P20.032.21.13.00006 Hall Marine PZ25-1316. For those who are newer on the planning commission, maybe not have dealt with a concept plan. These are uh when we meet with the developer, they present their ideas and we provide input to developer on how we think this will move forward with the city. Um if they need to make changes, if there's some issues, um it's really a free flowing give and take conversation. Um we will take no vote uh when it's done. Uh, and by the time we are finished with this, the applicant should have a pretty good idea of where the planning commission sits. So, I believe Abby, you're presenting. Thank you, Chair. Just had to get a little AB tech out of the way first. Um Austin Halberg of Halberg Marine has submitted uh for planning commission concept plan review to develop vacant land along Forest Road North. This is just north of the city's uh owned airport. Uh what would be proposed is the subdivision of 30 acres into two parcels. A 23 acre parcel on the north. So that's the right hand side of what you're looking at on your screen right now. If you're looking at the big screens, um that would include um up to but probably not 150 garage condo units. I think the staff report did indicate 112, but the narrative does indicate 100 to Whoops. 150. It would also include 3,000 square feet of uh business office kind of flex space. It's still open, but speculative and some outdoor storage. the seven acre parcel on the what's on the left side of the screen down below here um would be a second industrial building with outdoor storage. So for those speculation buildings those uses would need to conform to the code. Nothing's being proposed at the moment um unless there was some sort of PUD requiring um different types of land uses or a PUD amendment for different types of land uses. The property is industrially zoned. Um, industrial condo, multi-tenant structures are permitted in our zoning code. Outdoor storage outright is not allowed, but it is allowed as an accessory use to some of the other types of uses that are allowed in the industrial district like a contractor service yard. Um the other types of uses that aren't identified but kind of speculative. The office, light manufacturing, all the uh warehousing, all of those things are allowed in the um industrial zoning district. And we just you utilize that kind of either um building permit review or potentially a site plan review process to vet out those uses in the future. The property is in the airport overlay district. the land use and density is is just fine. Um building heights are usually the biggest thing with relationship to the airport overlay district as of the now we don't see any conflicts with that airport overlay. Um we do believe that this is needs to be and the applicant probably indicated it in its uh in their memo uh or their um application letter. This would be a planned unit development. The city's code requires a planned unit development overlay whenever there is more than one building on a property. It's a little bit unique, but planned unit developments um generally speaking are a tool to use for site creativity. Um really what we want to try to do with a planned unit development is develop the site as it's best needed. how it might not strictly when it might not strictly apply or the zoning code might not strictly meet the zoning code requirements. It allows for flexibility but in that flexibility the city does indicate that we do want to see that there are some public benefits to PUDS as well. uh parkland dedication noted in the in the comprehensive or in the um subdivision regulations of city code 5% of the net developable acreage which is about 1.15 acres would be required for dedication. This isn't an area that the city would be seeking any land dedication. So we'd be working with the developer on some sort of cash contribution potentially in lie of parkland dedication when it comes to the street layout. Um, so street layout, access and parking. There are a few challenges noted on the site plan. The property line actually extends into Forest Boulevard North. So there would be land that would need to be platted for the con for Forest Boulevard North. Forest Boulevard North is also an underdeveloped roadway. So, we'd want to be seeing that improved very much like we required with interstate properties just to the north of this. Um, there are some access point concerns with I guess I didn't even walk through this guys. I got a little rusty not seeing you for a while. So, it's good that I'm back to be able to refresh my memory how to present to planning commission. [Music] Um, so there is a primary access point for those garage condos in between the two kind of commercial flex areas. The developer is really seeking to have a sec one secure access point into the garage condo facility. Um, the secondary out kind of smaller lot to the south does propose two access points. Forest Road North is designed as a major collector major collector road and the two access points into this property are of a concern to the city and to the engineering meeting the engineering standards. We do indicate we'd want to see these combined and we'd also want to see an emergency access at a minimum exit or entrance into the garage condo facility. Really more than anything, we want to be able to have a second means in or out if there was some sort of um hazard blocking the only entrance in. Uh parking for the facility, parking for the flex office spaces or however these will end up. It's hard to tell if it meets parking standards. Probably does. You know, each of these units are going to have parking inside their buildings themselves, inside these garages. these parking this parking space is really designed to serve these uh commercial industrial uses um but also to probably provide for a little bit of visitor overflow parking. A couple challenges just with the code is that our code does require parking is behind buildings. This is one of those unique areas where the city has authorized and permitted parking in front of buildings and this could be one of those areas that we could be more flexible on to accommodate for the site design. Uh we do talk about I believe in our staff report but if not something that we'll want to talk about with the developer is potentially putting some overflow parking in the secured area. Not going to say there'll be a few garage parties, but there could be. How do we accommodate for maybe more vehicles that aren't in their garages but can be outside the garages? There is sufficient parking space though to have parallel parking in front of the garages, on the side of the garages, and still have drive lane width through here. Um architectural standards likely there'll be some discussions on flexibility. Right now they're being proposed, the structures are being proposed to be 100% metal. The code does not allow for 100% metal. I do think that when our city code design standards were developed, um metal wasn't maybe as architecturally detailed as it can be today. And there are ways that we can design um may be able to design that does help break up mass, um long wall panels, those sorts of things. There are some areas of the concept plan that we can't necessarily assess at this time. things like uh though like trails and sidewalks, they're not going to be re required, but things like storm water ponds, landscaping, wetland impacts, they're going to require additional information, additional review. So, we just note those in our staff reports. On a high level tonight, your purpose is to provide highlevel comments and have a discussion with the developer. These are non-binding comments, but this helps the applicant then move forward with submitt of preliminary plats and plans to come back to the planning commission, city council. Um, this is scheduled for the planning commission's June 23rd city council's June 23rd meeting, I believe. I'd have to look. It's the last city council meeting in June to also get some non-binding comments. So, um, Austin Halberg of Halberg Marina is here to discuss this with you. Uh, any questions for me or questions to staff? Yes. Um, because of the way that that 97 is being changed, um, it's going to be fairly important that Forest Road south of this particular location um, be improved. if this is going to be in place um just to to be able to get in and out. Um this is not something that is in the city's plans and but for this facility with a what I expect is a fairly large traffic. Um have you had discussions with the developers about that remaining section of Forest Road down to 202? Um, we have had discussions about all of the underimproved portions of Forest Road with the adjacent land owners. Um, as you remember, you recently or in the last year approved uh plans for Interstate Company expansion. So, the city has been working through agreements with Interstate about the improvement of Forest Road in that location. um to the north. This developer is aware um that the improvement of the roadway is going to be required, but they as well as the land owner to the north um and the city staff don't think three peacemeal projects is in the best interest of the public sector and this roadway. So, as we work through this project, I don't doubt there's going to be ongoing conversations about that improvement of that roadway. Um but and um I don't believe that the city could require them to improve roadway beyond their property line. Um also simply because we didn't contemplate that with a property to the north knowing that they would also have considerable more traffic coming in through there. As somebody who lives on a dirt road I and this is essentially it's not though it's it's double chip sealed. I believe it's it's a not great but it's holding up. It is not a dirt road though. It's under improved. Okay. Um our policy on improvement of those roads, what is the assessment rate? I don't know at the top of my head but but typically the adjacent property owners will be assessed. They will need to pay for the portion adjacent to their properties if this becomes a public project. Okay. Abby on uh the large parcel which I think is actually partial too. Um they talk about those two buildings and having outdoor storage. Yeah. Sorry pointed that out. That's kind of it's not adjacent to the two buildings but it's up in not up in down in the southwest corner which is being shown in the upper left hand corner of your of the plan. So, there is an outdoor storage area being proposed up here and you can get there from here. You can get enough high ground uh kind of a driveway access in this location. Oh, I didn't see that. Thank you. Yep. I should have pointed that out. That's all right. Again, I'm a little rusty with you guys. So, other questions to Martin? Yeah, that outdoor storage, is that going to be um if it faces a road, is it going to be covered up? So, like when people bring their RVs and their motorcycles and their boats and stuff, it won't be vi visible to the roads. With the Great question, with the land uses that we allow for outdoor storage, we do require screening. Um that screening hasn't been vetted right now and so we would require some sort of screening. What that looks like, not really sure. Um it's likely this would be visible from Highway 61 because we have some grade changes through there. Um but right now we I couldn't tell you what that screening would be. But yes, screening would be required to help minimize those views. Thank you. Other staff questions hearing none. Would the applicant like to come forward and uh spend a couple minutes telling giving us your vision here and then we'll have a discussion with you. How's that sound? All right. So, my name is Austin Halberg. I'm a third generation family member uh leading the Hallberg organizations including boat dealership storage operation and commercial real estate. Today I'm here as applicant for the garage condo development and we're really excited to introduce it. I firmly believe that this project would be great for the community. This development serves the needs of residents who need additional space for vehicles, powersports equipment, boats, RVs, and it also serves the needs of business owners who um are looking for small and affordable spaces to own or lease for their business operations. Um I'd like to introduce our development leader, Scott, to come up now to field any questions or elaborate on the project. Good evening, chair and commissioner. Scott Peterson, uh 8860 152nd Street, Hugo, Minnesota. Um representing um Austin and the applicant here and some of the development team. Um happy to answer any questions specifically. Appreciate Abby and her team uh work to date here on on kind of what's in front of you. Question to the applicant. Somebody else want to go first? Sure. I have a question. What was the decision on only one entrance with that many garage complexes and people coming in? Especially on, you know, weekends, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. When you're talking about having storage facilities for recreational, the last thing I can see is one entrance and ex and exit at the same place. Is there a reason for that? It's primarily security, right? So, that's a single point of entrance. It'll be gated. It'll be key controlled. It'll have security cameras as well. And then we also thought from a sense of arrival, it's a better sense of arrival for the end user. to the end visitor u the owner to come in to a to a single point of entrance there. Now we understand staff understand staff's comments on a potential secondary emergency exit. Um but when you look at this from a circulation standpoint, you look at the average drive widths. I mean we're over 50 to 60 feet wide between buildings that's larger than most regular roads as well. Um so we're not concerned about overall circulation of vehicles. Not even a secondary exit. So, one way in, one way out. I I think that's I think that's where we're probably going to end up is a secondary exit or or proof of an emergency exit. Correct. Yeah. And and I do think you've got a a unique pattern of hours here, right? You've got some people just Friday, Saturday, you've got some people Monday, Tuesdays, you've got some people in the evening, some people in the morning. So, I think part of that will be developed as we as we understand the buildout. D. Um, I was not able to zoom in and blow this up on my on my screen, but I see you are because I couldn't see dimensions when I was at home. Anyway, do you want me to go? You're okay with where you are now? So, number one, are there any public restrooms in here? There are not. No. So, this will be part of a an HOA will be governing this property. And so, there are going to be some public restrooms that are part of kind of an amenity structure. And if you can see, um, I think Abby, if you're directing, um, if you go just to the north there by those kind of four or five picnic tables in the middle. Yeah, we've got kind of some outuildings. There are notches on the side of the buildings where there'll be some restrooms. Some of these units may also have restrooms built into them as well. They'll be plumbed. Okay. So, help me with the the vision here of garage condos. Um, yeah, I'm familiar with storage units. You open up the garage, you put whatever inside, you lock it. But these are units where like if I have a classic car and I want to work on it, you know, I can I can go into this garage, there's electricity, there's heat probably. Um I don't know, maybe have a coffee maker, maybe I have a grill, you know, and I have friends over on the weekend and grill out. Is is that the kind of thing is that that that's what these can be used for, right? Yeah, potentially. So it's a it's a secondary space that somebody is purchasing, right? It's a it's a condominium. is for ownership, right? And so, um, there'll be a deed parcel to it. That's why it's got an HOA management component to it, right? And that HOA document ensures and protects kind of everybody's interest here long term on what they're investing in. Um, these can be built out to whatever you desire them to be, right? And so, what we're proposing is a anywhere from a, you know, 800 square foot up to 3,000 square feet. That's why the unit counts anywhere between up to close to 150 depending on how those demising spaces become. But you're exactly right. Some people are are using them to store cars. Some people are using them to to put a really nice golf simulator in there. And some people are are storing just uh equipment in there. I'm just thinking out loud here. I wonder if you would have any issues, use issues of someone renting one unit and and the other unit Well, maybe is as is something much more noisy. Maybe they're using, you know, rivet guns and and noisy equipment and someone's not. if they're because they're so close together, you know, adjacent to each other. U that's just one off the top of my head thought. Uh is there a time of use limited? You know, you're limited to, you know, 8 whatever 10 o'clock at night to 8 in the morning and then otherwise it's locked off or is it 24 hours? I don't if it's an a condo that I own, I assume I can come in and use it any time. Yeah. So, access is 24 hours a day. Um in terms of the uses, we'll delineate that and define that through the HOA documents. Right. As you can see there there is really no outdoor space. I mean this is you know unit contained inside of your space and that's how those kind of rules and regulations inside the HOA will operate. Okay. I have two questions for I've been down to the H to the garage miniums down in Columbus there. Um and you know they got kitchens in them, bathrooms. I mean they're they're really sweet setups. clearly above my pay grade, but um I have nice friends. Um this are these going to be comparable or are somewhere I think in your um write up it was said you're going to bring it down a little bit. So I think to Don is are we looking at most people are storing or some people are going to have kitchens and then bathrooms in there? And then we have the whole question, how do we make sure no one's living there? Yeah. Yeah. No. Uh those are all great questions. you know, we've toured that Columbus property of Garage Solutions as well. I think from an exterior um element, it's very similar and I think that's reflected in the presentation in the pictures here. I think from a sense of arrival in the single gate, very similar, right? You've got gated entrance, secure gated entrance. Um similar buildout of those units. You know, those units are are the entire gamut, the entire spectrum. You have just a car. You have somebody who has a car and a hoist and a and a hose bib and a and a and a welder. And then you've got people that have built a $100,000 bar perhaps in there, right? And so those are all allowable buildout uses inside of th that association's HOA. Um, and so that is the regulating document that will be used and that'll be reviewed by title that are reviewed by lenders. I mean that that's the document that's going to put in place the restrictions of this use. And obviously there are city restrictions as well inside of some of those zoning classifications. My last question is my the restrictions. You know, when you go over to the Columbus one, there's no one parked outside unless they're in the unit. So, there's no outside storage in front of these garage doors for their boat in the winter or, you know, you get so much space and we always grow to that and then some. Yeah. And if if I understand your question, is it regards to outdoor storage in front of units? Yes. Yeah. That's not our intent here at all. And that's why I think you've we've been purposeful in moving that outdoor storage away from the actual buildings. Our intent is people are either in their unit or they're parked out in front of their garage in front of their designated space and that's it. There's no true outdoor storage in front of actual units. Okay. I got a question before Susan asks it. Um snow removal. So she there are a couple areas but they're really little. So as long as you've thought about it and because it will be an issue I I I'm guessing but I see a little area but yeah it's a small area. Yeah. And again we'll further define that as well through our you know storm water management and everything. Correct. Yes. Okay. So the definition of a dwelling unit is it has room, it has a bathroom and it has a kitchen. And these are condos. I own them. So, if I have a kitchen and a bathroom and a place for my comfy couch and I own this property, why can't I live there? Well, I think um that's not what we're trying to in sell and invest here, right? So, for us, it's not a place of permanent residence. That's not what we're advertising. That's not what we're selling. Us is this is your this is your third stall at your house, right? This is your instead of building a garage at your house or I live in the city. I don't have the zoning to build one. I don't have the place to build it. This is how we're doing that. You know, the word condo, I think, can be misleading. The condo isn't in the sense of a condo for ownership. The condo is the legal description of for sale verse rent, right? It's a condominiumized development deal, which means you've got a plat and then you've got to distinguish and define additional real estate as you go to build out these units. And then you've got a condominiumized floor plate, right? So here you'll have a building footprint, right? Which will be one parcel. And then that parcel will get further subdivided per each demising wall. Right? So you'll have an individual PID parcel per site. Right? So that's that's what we're selling is the ownership of that that wall space, that floor, that ceiling. Right? I think condo can be a little misleading in that in that aspect. But I own it. I've got I've got a a P. I I pay the county my property tax on that P. Um like any other property, it is mine. Um, wouldn't the zoning cover? Yeah. So, your zoning code would prohibit that because we don't allow for residences in our industrial district. And as a planned unit development, we would record a document that indicates where we're allowing for concessions, use allowances, that sort of thing that gets recorded to the underlying property and carries to every other parcel that's created thereafter. So you the city would zoning code would restrict it and we can put it right on the deed recorded approvals that would restrict it. Now anywhere that we approve any use Susan somebody can violate the law across the street from me. Um it is what it is. Um, but I I just want you to understand that that I understand your intent. I also have a reasonable understanding of human nature. Um, so that's that's that's going to be very interesting. Um, I am concerned about the interior maintenance. Um, you've got a lot of impermeable roof area. Um, I think that the stormwater calculations are going to be really critical as this thing moves forward. And you don't have enough space um to be pushing your snow in terms of just the physical needs of pushing the snow. you're you're pretty much narrow spaces and on a good snow year those those are going to fill up fast. I really think it's adorable and cute and I I I love your little grill areas there. That's that to me then that's more like a little neighborhood with a little neighborhood park. Um but that's I I think that's really interesting. I am a little concerned about the width of your driveway and the access of your driveway going back to that um outdoor storage area. Um that's fairly narrow. It's right on your property line. And again, depending on where you're going to be needing your storm water and the size of your storm water facility, um I'm I'm I'm looking forward to seeing your next plans for that. um the the parking stalls that you've got out front. If these are going to be like um a landscape company has buys one of these for um storage of their stuff. I'm assuming that your individual parking stalls are going to be oversized just because the folks that are going to be using these are going to have, you know, 250s and 350s and and oversized vehicles. Um, and so I'm I'm assuming that some of your parking stalls are going to be a little bit larger than normal. Yeah. Commissioner, two things. I want to go back to one thing you said earlier. Um, we are trying to build a community here, right? I mean whether these are outdoor enthusiasts or car enthusiasts, I mean this is this is maybe their lake, this is maybe their cabin, right? They come here and so that that is important to us and I think when we come back and you'll see us develop this, we we are going to put our best foot forward in trying to create that ongoing to protect everyone's investment in this, you know, these these front uh two buildings, they're about 15,000 a piece. um you know, business office, flex office. I we really think this is a need for um I'll call them neighborhood businesses like a landscaping company, right? Right now, maybe they're at the owner's house and the the workers are showing up, they're leaving six, seven cars there and they're taking two or three big trailers and guess what? Those two or three big trailers are really the the main assets of this entire company, right? Maybe they've outgrown it and they're no longer doing Quickbooks at their dinner table, right? And so we envision these first two buildings potentially servicing that, right? And so it's hard to answer the questions up front on those parking spots because I envision that as like a little bit of front of house guests, but if I'm looking for a landscape bid, I don't necessarily go to the landscaper's office, right? They come over to my house just like a painter would, etc. So I'm we're we're not sure what those uses are. We just think for the max flexibility, excuse me, of of who potentially could be some of these users, we need to have some sort of front of house parking. If these are employees, we would envision them going through the private security gate, the doors open in the back of their space, and they're most likely parking inside their unit as they pull their trucks out for the day. Haven't quite worked through that, but that's kind of our thesis at this point. Okay. Um I I am a user at the uh Halberg facility in here in Forest Lake. Um and um I admit it, I'm old. I'm not as coordinated as I could be. And um I am often not as fast on the keypad or I punch it wrong or I innumerable things and I do have some concerns about traffic backing up on Forest Road. I I truly do. I realize that that that you believe that it's going to be, you know, differing hours because you've got the differing kinds of of um community members. Um, but I am concerned about traffic backing up on Forest Road and I'm hoping that there's going to be a little bit of of stacking space there somehow um before you hit the gate because you got somebody Well, my 18 foot trailer, it's it's it's just a big honking trailer and um it that and my my truck, there's just not a lot of room for stacking and and that would be like immediate stacking out on the Forest Lake Boulevard if there's somebody behind me. So, as as we do further review of this, um, Sure. Can I just uh note for the record, if you don't mind, Chair uh Commissioner Young, the building is 60 foot wide. It looks like the gate is maybe set back 40 feet. We've got 20 foot parking stalls. We've got a 24 foot drive out. We've got another set of parking stalls plus a 30 foot setback. So, we've got 50 75 well over 100 feet. So, the gate isn't going to be until the back of those the west side of those buildings. That's correct. Yes. Perfect. Yeah, that makes me feel much much better. Um the the storm water is going to be private storm water. Um, I expect that these ponds are going to have a significant amount of sediment going to them just because of the uses and and um and what you've got going on in the outdoor storage area. um making sure that you've got provisions and and how you are set up for the routine maintenance of those storm water ponds so that you don't lose capacity is going to be a really big deal for this facility. I think it's needed. I think it's going to be a great addition to Forest Lake. Um, I it's it's going to be fascinating to me to see how this develops over the next 10 years and and some of the lessons that we'll learn. Great. Thank you. Other questions? Kim, can you speak briefly to the utilities that will be included with each unit? They're different sizes. We talk about kitchens and bath. What type of utilities are they going to have? uh heat, are you gonna have gas lines run to them, septic lines? What are we thinking? Yeah. So, I I would say um there's a variety of ways to approach this. And if you looked at how the market has been done, Columbus one, Woodberry being one, Big Lake being one, there's a couple of them. Um but again, our our initial vision is that each single unit will have a dedicated panel, right? Whether it's 150 amp, whether it's 200 amp from an actual uh electrical component, right? Separate meter again build to that owner right there. Um, we envision hydronulic in flooror heat, right, which is controlled as well. Um, for those for those people, that's a that's an electric use, right? It's not a gas use. Um, and then we envision water being stubbed in at the first level. And then potentially there's a mezzanine level buildout. These buildings are about 20 ft clear. There was a question in here about kind of the overall height of the structure. You know, I would say on a on a 412 pitched roof, this height's probably 34 to 35 feet, well underneath kind of the 45 foot max height for the for the airport. Um, and so then really it's it's the infrastructure we're putting in there, right? Water, hot, cold, per unit, um, electric, and then we're wiring in probably 10 or 12 110 utility outlets, right? And then from there, the the end owner is doing what they desire on the inside, right? Maybe they're maybe they're saying we want a 210 volt, right? And and they're doing that, but the capacity is there, right? it it would be hard as a developer to guess what the end use of capacity of each of one of these units are. I also think you know the nature of this industry is a lot of them are are are reserved right which is this is the unit I want here right and and so you're able to catch some of that infrastructure and upgrades through the kind of normal development process or it's a or it's dealt with after um after we've sold it to the to the homeowner. Could I also just note for the record say homeowner? Sorry, you're right. Scratch that. We'll scratch that. Uh unit owner. Um if I could just note for the record, and I apologize, I don't print myself a staff uh packet, and I don't want to change the visual for you, but if I remember right, I do believe the city will require these to be sprinkled there. You have listed a comment like that. I think the discussion was you guys were looking at we need to look into it but they because of the the nature of the uses the multi-tenant umness there may be the requirement for them to be sprinkled as well so does add that additional um I want to say utility but also protection for the units um we'll we will continue I couldn't remember at the top of my head if we made that determination or not other questions oh go ahead Jess I have one uh you were mentioning that people will be able to park in the unit as as well as have one car in front of it. So like if I had my 25 ft enclosed trailer and there was a unit on each side, would I still be able to make the corner to get in there if I was going to go to my unit? Yeah. I mean, so let me rephrase this. Most people that have used these as have used these open the door, pull in, close the door because they are heated, because they are air conditioned, right? That's how most of these are functioning. My comment was is if you're in the middle of a car repair job and you've got maybe your space full up with parts, you can park outside of it, right? So the question becomes is you have to be there when that car is parked. It's not stored overnight. It's not a self storage, right? So your question is is if I'm your neighbor and I'm coming to back in my trailer and I need you to move your car, is that is that just kind of from a logistic standpoint? Is that your question or from a dimension? Just thinking like if you had one row of those where you had 15 people there on the same day and you had 15 people park their cars outside and you tried to make that corner to just bring your trailer around it would with the 50 ft there really wouldn't be room. I I can tell you we've studied the average length of the allowable size trailer you can have on the roads, right? And we're not building a unit bigger than that, right? And then you start looking at from a logistic standpoint of some units being deeper, some units being wider, the the orientation of the doors, or you've got maybe potential pullth through doors, right? And so if I'm a car person and all I have is antique cars, any of these units probably work for me, right? If I've got the longest, largest toy hauler, maybe I've got a unit here in that building. If you can go to the end of that building, uh, yeah, you know, I've got some units like that that maybe have wide open radiuses that come in. So, but we're we we we need to absolutely get that right. Like as a developer and somebody who's selling something like we we have to absolutely get that right and that'll be something we study further. Okay. Martin. Uh my question is about security. Uh, say I own a unit and right across right across from me is Paul's unit and he's inside on a on a Friday afternoon and I look over and I see he's got a 1969 GTO mint condition orange uh in there and I go like I don't think Paul is deserving of that anymore. Um, what type of security? You have cameras. Are they monitored uh by a human so that they could call the cops and have the cops there when I start to exit? Um what type of security is is going to be in? Yes, I can talk. I'm happy to talk theoretically. Right. So, typically the HOA and the developer are going to provide access security into the property. Right. That's what we're concerned about is into the property. All of these units come pre-wired with low voltage wiring and almost any one of these units owners ultimately are putting in their own security in their system because of that vehicle because of the the investment they have in there. So it comes pre-wired with it and and most of those are again because it's their own private unit. They're maintaining their own contents in there. Um so it's it's kind of a a specific layer for them and then our ours is more of kind of a perimeter uh access control security which ultimately the HOA is responsible for as well. I was uh one other thing. Um do you as the the overseer of the HOA kind of thing, if you think that somebody is is running a meth lab in there, do you have keys to get in there to to to check it out? I mean, stuff like that. Yeah. So So ultimately the HOA is eventually controlled by the owners association themselves, right? Most of these will have a developer mechanism or uh an initial owner developer mechanism and when a majority have been sold and turned over then that board gets turned over by the owners in there and they can set their own rules, their own regulations at that time. Another question. Do you have a ballpark uh price point for the units? Yeah. Um, I would say, um, you know, it's all based on square footage. And so, you've got some people that need literally a third stall, right? I need 400 square feet. And then you have some people, and that's a different price point, maybe a different financial position. And somebody says, I want a 3,000 foot deal. So, I I would say if you look in the market, these are ranging anywhere between kind of that that $110,000 range all the way up to kind of that couple hundred,000 range depending on the square footage of some of these units. Uh you are getting a PUD with this as part of the project and and this always comes up so we might as well look at the red herring in the room. um you get a lot of flexibility with this development when we do a PUD. On the flip side, um what's in it for the city to grant that PUD above and beyond I'm just getting storage units. I don't need an answer today, but just be prepared that we're going to be wondering what is the benefit to the community by giving you the flexibility of this PUD. Um is it more stuff for the parks in general? Excuse me. Is it something that you do here? I I don't have an answer for you there, but it's but it's a question we always ask a developers. You know, what's in it for the city for granting you that flexibility? So, just be prepared for that because I know you're going to get it at the next uh at the next stage preliminary right at the preliminary. No, I listen chair I think it's a fair question. I think you know PUDs are used for that exact reason. flexibility for the developer, flexibility for the staff, but really it's a partnership. You're working together to how do we develop this to the best interest of both parties. You know, my my off-the cuff response is this is 30 acres and it's heavily impacted with wetlands and if I I'm struggling on what a development would be for a single building because that's your trigger into a PUD, right, is a second building on 30 acres, right? So, 500,000 square foot giant cross dock distribution. I I I don't know. I can't think of an investment that would make this be a single use. So I think who's ever developing this parcel anytime down the road is looking at a PUD just due to the sheer size of it and the fact that you're going to need two footprints, right? The other thing I would say is, you know, again, you're taking a single P that's zoned and classified in agricultural basis, right, which is a couple thousand dollars a year in tax basis. you've got a local developer and local owner investing in the city, but now you're going out and you're creating, you know, potentially 100 to 150 individual PID taxable parcels that I would argue are, you know, several hundred,000 a piece. Now, I get tax basis goes to the county and the city and there's a parion and a proration there, but I do think that's a I do think that's a significant benefit. And I would also say that that tax basis is primarily on private components of it compared to a bunch of um public infrastructure to support it. So, that that that's my quick response to you. I I guess I want to say I recognize the PUD. I appreciate it. I think it does allow us to work in partnership and we'll come back with a a more articulated answer for you in the next meeting. Perfect. One last thing. What is the thought behind the outdoor storage? If these are all private garage condominiums, what's the thought with the additional storage outside that's going to be visible? Yeah, maybe visible. Maybe it's that's I mean that's probably 700 feet off of the frontage road. Okay. Um if I was guessing right. So I think it's hard to scale off that. I really do. Um you you know our our thought was you get seasonality components into these into these you know recreation vehicles. You get some components like that or you get somebody says like I have a horse trailer. It doesn't need to be stored inside but I can't park it in front of my house so I'm going to put it back there and I know it's safe and protected and by the way that outdoor storage is only allowed to people that are condo unit owners. Right. And so that that was kind of our thought process uh behind that. But that would also be available for the two business buildings that you're they would be that's where they would have to do their outside storage. That's correct. Yes. I will note um it was brought up earlier that outdoor storage if it is visible. There is some kind of woodland I think if I remember correctly that's separating those two areas. So it could be designed in a fashion that it might not be visible at all. I've kind of forgotten black and white paper. I forget about the natural areas around. So, okay, before we wrap this up, is um I don't hear any big naysayers, but is anyone have a last comment that they definitely need to see something to make this move forward or are we got our answers for now? The next time we'll see this is preliminary plant. I believe. Correct. We are going to be expecting y'all to not deviate significantly from our regular landscape plan, especially since you're making this as a community and you've got the the grill space and the, you know, the cool areas. We'll work together on a on a good landscape design. And I think um some of the commission knows that we've been working on an update a landscape ordinance because we do have some interesting calculation methods that do require significant landscaping. I don't know that if that new ordinance will be back before you before this plaque comes. So just note giving you the heads up that we're going to have some ordinance amendments coming forward on that. Last call for comments. Commissioners hearing none. Any closing comments? Otherwise, thank you for coming tonight. Look forward to seeing you next time. Yeah, chair and commissioners, appreciate your time. We're excited to be here and great staff and I look forward to moving forward. Thank you. Thank you. Good luck with your project. We'll move on to on to item 8B. Excuse me. That's a also a concept plan review for McKinley Creek Estates 21145 Fondan Avenue North Joshua Markham Builders and Incorporated PZ25-1315. Abby, it's all yours. Thank you, Chair Gerard. Mark Olsen of Joshua Markham Builders has submitted an application for concept plan review for a new 13 lot single family residential subdivision to be located at 21145 Fondant Avenue North off of the southeast side of Clear Lake. That's a lot to just take in at the moment. But up on your screen right now, we've got a series of vacant or semi- vacant underutilized parcels located off the south side of Clear Lake that's being proposed to be a new single family residential subdivision. Um, property is accessed off of Fondant Avenue right now, which connects to Highway 97. So, it is kind of a a jog to get in and back and around into that subdivision land area. I'm not sure if folks are familiar, but there is one single family residence on the property right now that would be removed. May be removed. Pardon? One one one what that might be removed single family. There is an existing residence. Okay. I don't know the condition of the residence, but understand that's not the big the one house with about 8,000 square foot garage. I don't know, but there could be some garage condos available in the future if they need a place to put their personal property if these keep running concurrently with one another. Right. Um so the lots conform to the minimum requirements for the single family residential zoning district. Um the 17 acres uh total, but the net developable is about nine acres. So they're they're close to meeting the minimum 1.5 lots per acre requirement and the comprehensive plan. Um there's a lot that still needs to be done. We're at concept plan review things like wetland delineations, all the things to really vet out um that net developable acres, but we're pretty close to meeting comp plan requirements. As part of our land subdivision requirements, 0.9 acres would be required for parkland dedication. and we haven't discussed with the applicant physical land dedication. This isn't an area that would be required to have land for parkland. There's parkland adjacent to the property. And I'll bring up at least a proposed trail that would head um along two property lines. The north property line getting into that adjacent park. Forgive me, I don't remember the park's name off the top of my head. Clear Lake Park. That's what I was thinking, but I wasn't going to say it, so everybody um but it would actually that trail would connect up with an existing trail. We'd combine the two to get into that Clear Lake Park. It's a really important trail connection for the city because it provides safe pedestrian access for everybody on the southeast corner of Clear Lake. Um it not only provides them access um kind of around that lake and into the kind of Forest Road neighborhood, but it can get you on the Hardwood Creek Trail heading down all the way into downtown and all the way to the school. So this really is a really important um trail connectivity component for us. Street layout. As I mentioned, the property currently is accessed off of Fondant Avenue. Fondant Avenue is an undersized roadway and the developer has been advised that the city would city staff is recommending that Fondant Avenue be improved up to the property's boundary and they would improve their roadway through the development site. Their understanding of that need to improve Fondon a widen and improve Fondant Avenue for safety purposes if we're putting in 13 more homes through here. Doesn't seem like a lot, but this is the only access in and out and it does extend beyond the city's minimum maximum requirement of 600 feet for a culde-sac. So, we cap our culde-sac widths or lengths because we really don't want to have a lot of people um on a dead end long deadend culde-sac one way in one way out. We have explored with this um developer alternative ways to try to get the culde-sac through. There's just no way to get secondary access to this site um without buying other private existing residential property in the area. Um let's see, sidewalks and trails. There would be uh those pedestrian connections that we've talked about. Um some of that we still have to work through with that concept from concept platting of exactly where some of those easements and sizes and things will line up. Um, overall, like I noted in the last one, this is concept plan review. These are non-binding comments. The intent really is, hey guys, what do you think? Here's the things that we already kind of see might be issues. Things like storm water drainage, ponding, tree inventory, preservation, wetland impacts, watershed review. A lot of that is a lot more detail that will come later. But generally speaking, this is your opportunity to share what you like, what you don't like, concerns you might have, and direction to the developer. So Mark Olsen with Dasha Markham builders is here. Otherwise, you have any questions for him or me? Any questions to staff? I have one for you. I mean, it has to do with the length of the culde-sac. I think that's more of a city question. I believe in your report it states that um this will have fire hydrants in it. Yes. So this is that the main reason we don't have long culde-sacs is for fire. It's no because you could have a tree that could go down and block the road. You could have all sorts of different hazards that could happen. This is an area that is not served by city water. This development will pull water through and make water available um to an a lot of proper potentially a lot of properties in due time on the southeast side of the lake. Those hydrogens are just one added benefit and one of the reasons that you could say there's a public benefit to allowing the extra long culde-sac that would allow for the development that's pulling the public infrastructure through. So So they're going to bring water to the to the parcel. They're going to bring water to this parcel and we're where do we have water on the other side of pulling it from the east here? If you look up on your screen there, we're pulling it from the east. So, we're pulling it from uh the Forest Road neighborhoods. Oh, okay. They have water. They have water. I honestly don't know what has water back there and what. Yeah. I mean, so when you look at it, most of the prop the properties along Bondant, none of them do. I don't believe any of Floral Bay does. So, you're really starting to provide public services to an area that is not only really underserved, but my understanding suffers from pressure issues and u potentially um if I remember right, just quality issues. This is an area where we're going to if we haven't already seen wells start to fail, they're going to in due time. and the land areas so small, um, water tables so high to be able to build dig new wells is there's there's cause for concern for drinking water in the in the area. So, other questions to staff? Um, you mentioned that they're going to improve fondant. Yeah. Is is that uh for the development, right? Yes. Fondant will be improved up to the development's driveway. So, and I shouldn't, this isn't the best map. I could pull up one of my mapping platforms. This is just an undersized, underdeveloped roadway. They will expand it and improve it um up to and then into their development. So, are the people that live there right now, are they going to be um assessed? They will not be assessed. It is because the new development is adding on to that additional need in that existing underdeveloped road. Does that make sense? So yeah, Susan, right away with there um on the Let me unplug for a second and get a different platform. Yeah. Um, but that on the south side of fondant there, it's a pretty good grade. So, are they going to have enough width to be able to to widen that road out? I as I rem as I as I drove the street on the south side of Fondant, some of those properties come fairly close to the road. They do. We won't be able to widen the road to the city roadway standards. We know that. I think right now, if I remember right, it might only be a 22 foot wide travel lane. If I remember right, we're trying to get to 28. Um I think our it's much still under our city standard but it's making a you know not great condition better and more conforming. I got you hold that non-conforming thought. I have a I've got a note for it. Um, please. Um, which one of us gets to say the the sword? You you got it. When when we further discuss this, um, the way that the the lots are structured and because of the the length of the the culde-sacs, I am not sure where you're going to put snow. And this area does have some microclimate that that they get if Forest Lake gets snow they they do. So just when we talk further and and as you are are are working up your your further plans um where will that go because um especially down there some of those those pies-shaped areas are really narrow where the driveways are going to go and um it's got to go somewhere. Abby, is this going to be a public street? So, the city crews will be plowing in here. Um, I believe so. I don't believe that we've contemplated this as a private street. Yeah. Um, developer might be able to speak more. This generally city the city doesn't allow for new private streets. So, I don't believe we talked about it. Okay. But I think we've assumed it would be public. That's going to be a bear to plow. But I think the developer would love to add to that conversation when you're ready. Okay. Other questions of staff? Hearing none. Did you have something, Abby? Nope. Oh, you like to come up, introduce yourself, spend a couple minutes telling us about your project. And just like you were here for the early one, we'll just bombard you with questions. Don't worry. I don't think I could do as good as that kid, but I'll give it my best. He was pretty good. Uh my name is Mark Olsen, 7867 Eastwood Road, Moundsville, Minnesota 55112. Uh the project I think is going to be great for that area. Um I want to address your last thing with snow. Um I would love to put in a private road, not not to add lots or anything, but just to cut down on the storm water in this area. That's the main reason. And I will take I'll make an HOA. I'll put then I'll put in central water uh sprinkler system. Then I'll get the lights in. I'll get the cluster mailboxes in. Blah blah blah. I would love to do that just for the fact of storm water. I don't care. You want to go private or public. It don't matter to me. When they come in to plow and you've got them lots on this side, them lots are really deep lots. Okay, that's number one. Number two is on this side you can throw all the snow you want to that side. Just tell your city guys, let's not pile it all in their driveway. Let's throw it all into that side or as much as you can, you know, and then you can always knock it down, too. So, the side that doesn't have lots, you throw a lot of snow there. If I'm running a snow plow, Yeah. and I am going, let's just say toward the top of the page here, I can't throw the snow to the left of that road. You can keep pushing it that way. So So you would be asking that plow driver to get out and readjust his blade. So instead of throwing to the right as they all do. Oh, I don't know. I didn't know. Don't Don't they just inside the truck? Oh, they don't. Okay. That's what I think. So I I I didn't know that. A little guy can do that. Okay. some of those a pickup. He can he can get a little bit of adjustment. I see your point there. Well, you got a lot of I do have the note of snow storage is of a concern. Snow storage and plowing and the developers note that he'd like to create it as a private road. I think that's, you know, things we can discuss if the city is favorable as we keep our conversations moving forward. Right. Yeah. This is going to be a really desirable place to live. Oh, it's going to be great. uh where it's got the pond and you got the property line and you got the existing neighborhood that we're pulling water off of. There's a line of fur, some cedar, some old growth trees there and you can make it out on that overview. Mhm. Right. Yeah. Right there. Yes. Trees all around right there. And the roads, unfortunately, you got a nice field there and the road's going right through the woods on this side. But you're going I want to try and get that storm wing storm water ponding in front of them trees because I want to preserve them as a a buffer mostly because the houses I'm going to put in here, they're not going to be starter homes. They'll be luxury priced homes, market priced homes. So, um, and with the long yards, sorry, with the long yards, they're going to be nice. It's going to be a nice addition to that area. It's a nice infill opportunity. Yeah, it's it's nice. It's It's most of most of the wet is wet. Most of the dry is really dry. It's sand. There's no muck, Pete, or anything there. It's it's all nice sand. And the road kind of where it's laid out creates a buffer from the folks down below towards the lake, too. And it's it is up higher. So, excuse me. So, um you just got done saying they're going to be not starter homes. Yeah. Um, are they going to have access to the lake? Well, you know, that's something I'd like to ask you all. There is an access down here right there. That that is not a public access. Um, so it's so I will say the city council adopted regulations that indicate all of the roadways that are platted into the lake are for public use. It is for public access but not inherently a boat launch access. It says no boat launching. So I'm not intending. What I was my thought was that if we could get we cannot give any grant any exclusive use. So your there wouldn't be any exclusive use. Your residents are welcome to walk down there and use it as much as the rest of the neighborhood. So, if I have a dock that's in the lake, there are no being that I live on the lake, not this one, but uh there are no docks on accesses. That's right in our ordinance, right? It just is not allowed. If you don't have a buildable residence, you cannot have a dock. Gotcha. Okay. And and the access is for emergency, you know, especially in the winter time, somebody goes that or you know emergency accesses. Okay. For fire and rescue. I will say try um a couple things just to note. Any of those properties come up along their for sale. They're up for private property ownership. I um and then my understanding is I don't know if it's this access or further down where Fondant first comes in, but there's a significant snowmobile traffic coming through here. I don't know if we've got any avid snowmoilers. I'm looking at Commissioner Cely because I know he lives on Cleveland. I live on the other end of the snowmobile over here. So, I don't know how they come up out of there, but there's a there's somehow they're coming through here to get into the downtown. Well, I am inquiring with a couple owners down there um that have uh more uh setback from the property line, per se, where hey, I'll rent your a piece of property, put a dock out in one pontoon, you know, and then folks can go down and go that way. or if he's got a dock out and he's got room for another vote on the other side. Historically, there have been some less than cordial interactions with folks because you you tend to think of this piece of property that is a city rightway, but you've been mowing it for the last 25 years and you tend to think of it as yours. And so there is some history there as you talk to folks. Yeah. You will hear. Oh, you go to this one, you'll find out who owns that Eastman. And I'm not That's all I got to say about that. As I look at your lots, lot uh 12, 11 and 12. Um we require 80 ft at the setback line. Correct, Abby? On single family? I'd have to look. I don't know all of our standards, right? Yeah. I'm I'm a little concerned that at that setback, especially on 12, that you're going to get 80 there. I think the angle's big enough probably on lot 11, but it looks tight on lot 12. And I just want to make sure you come in with all conforming lots. I don't care how you get that A80 ft. If you got to move that line a little bit because you're at the beginning here, but we'll need to see all conforming lots. Um, Chair Dre, can I just ask a point of clarification? Yes. The property is under the 1.5 minimum for the comp plan conformance. If lots need to be adjusted slightly to meet that minimum conformity, is that something that the planning commission is favor favorable to knowing he needs to meet the minimum density in this district? I don't think he's talking about density. I don't think we're worried about minimum density on this. It's just that um for instance, if you shifted the property line on lot 13 a little bit toward the top of the page, then you could slide 12 and slide 11, right? But that might change lot 13's lot developable uh square footage. I'm just saying that we the these lots will have water and sewer. These will uh yes, these will have water and sewer. Personally, I'm okay with a little smaller lot. I just when we don't have water, then yeah, it gets dicey because I need so many feet to the sewer. I know we want to, you know, we don't want to like this isn't the um low low medium density where we're down to 7500. you know, these are fairly sizable size lots. But if we need to shift those lot sizes a little bit to meet the minimum density requirements, I just wouldn't want to go onto the record and hold so true that we need to meet every single zoning requirement. I'm just throwing that out there. So, commissioners, your thought on that? You know what? If Bet Council wants to try and say that we don't have that we lack a lot on here to meet minimum density. Um I know it's just saying but I I but it's not the Met Council. It's by our own laws that we can't approve subdivisions that don't conform to our comp plan. So we we made those rules. We maybe didn't love those rules, but we made those rules. and if he can't meet the 1.5 minimum density and does not conform to the comp plan. Now, I will say I think that by the time we take out some of that p required public infrastructure and the wetlands and there's wetland buffers and area for the trail and things like that, maybe those numbers will shift. Maybe it'll come to 1.49 and it'll be substantially conforming with the comp plan. I just private roads with we cannot exempt roadways from it. I know we can't even exempt storm ponds and we don't have control over storm pond sizing. So, commissioners, other concerns or other questions or input you would like to give the developer. Any other questions for us today? No, I appreciate your input. Thank you. We look forward to see you when you have the preliminary plat. I believe that's the next time we'll see you. Okay. Yep. Have a good summer. You too. Thank you, Abby. Is there a requirement for a neighborhood meeting on this one? I believe all of our uh preliminary plats do. I'd have to I'd have to take a look. It would be to your advantage to start to get to know some of the the neighbors in that area. I think I'll get personally what I'm doing in the coming weeks and we'll do that person. Most of them have been there a long time and they're very protective. Yeah. Well, we see some really nice flower. say what I'm address. So, so I think what Commissioner Young is pointing out is that the city requires a neighborhood meeting at preliminary plat. So, we'll coordinate all of that together, but I think she's just suggesting that maybe you want to reach out before those legally required meetings. All right, we'll move to uh our update part. We'll start with you, Abby, since I think you have the most updates. Uh, I do have in your packet is the updated city meeting calendar. Just as a reminder, in July, our meetings will change from 7 o'clock to 6:00 night. But the hope is that we could get out by 7:15. Look at this, guys. Look at this. We're moving right along. Um, no. The intent of this is to start our meetings earlier so that they are potentially getting done earlier if only by default that we started an hour earlier so everybody can get home safely and not in the dark and start another day tomorrow well rested. So this meeting started at 7. You will have another meeting in two weeks. We do have another full planning commission agenda June two weeks from the 25th. um that also will be at 7 o'clock and then July will start our six o'clock meetings. Um I believe you will also have a first meeting in July meeting as well. So we have a lot um coming through my offices right now in terms of just a little bit of everything. Um, I also wanted to let um at least the council or the commission know that on Monday night the council heard a request from the land owner at 8241 Northshore Trail, which is land that is the Pizza Pub is on. So, just a little bit of background for some planning commissioners is uh 20 years ago, the property was developed with a 2500 foot restaurant had been there since the dawn of time. that landowner had come to the city and said, "Hey, can we tear this down and build a new building and built what is the building that Pizza Pub is currently in today, much greater than the previous sized property was developed. Um, as part of that, there were variances granted which included a variance to some parking regulations, but accounted for like some of that boat traffic coming in. Um, long story short, since the building started operating, there have been parking problems and the success of Pizza Pub has just kind of expanded those complaints to the city. The owner was notified of some violations that occurred in the right ofway recently where they went to improve some area in the boulevard and as a means to help um find a solution went to the council last week to ask about their consideration of the uh putting in on street parking on Northshore Trail adjacent to the Pizza Pub property to help alleviate some of these these public nuisance, public safety concerns that have been there for a very long time. And the city council um did indicate that they were favorable to this. I won't say that it was a majority and I won't say that it was even a it was a majority, a 3-1. I won't say that it was a strong majority. I think that um former planning commissioner Miller was very concerned um but did vote 3-1. Commissioner, Council Member Larson did not vote in favor of this. Those will be coming back before the council for formal approval. Be working with the owner to kind of look at how we potentially get this done. Um, but I just wanted to let you know and um, and this was uh, Commissioner Young had asked me to bring this up of this is a circumstance where when there are legal nonconformities or um, historic use permits, variance requests, the decisions that are made by the city have longlasting implications that can create nuisances later down the road. So this is why your work is really important to kind of think about that long-term effect and what we have to do 20 years later sometimes to alleviate those issues that could be caused by your by city decisions. Does that make sense? I'm just giving you the update. Commissioner Young asked me to. and and and to follow up, it has been our policy, not written in stone, but our policy that if somebody comes in um with a request to build something new, they're um we've had several of them where where they're they're they're doing they're building and and we would love to say, "No, now that you're building, you have to come in strict compliance with our rules, What we have said on several occasions is, you know what, you're making less of a problem. So, we Yes, we will work with you. Abby, could you talk discuss what what you and I talked about last night regarding those that I'm really sorry, Susan. I have no clue what we talked about last night. I don't need to that our pos that if we were to allow continuing non-conformance even though it's a less non-conforming that we're still not in a position for instance on pizza pub to say no you you you have to deal with your parking yourselves. We we let we let them have a a variance. And so we need to be much more cautious in the future about holding the line on variances and variations. I think just in general variations and I will say in that in this one case that we're bringing up and in most of the cases that we see where there's been historic approvals this planning commission has held pretty firm here's our regulations meet them and appeals are made or it ends up in the council lab. So the council has ultimate appeal authority. Um but yes, there are long-standing there are what you do matters and can affect you know in essence will affect a property for the next generation or two or more. I also just wanted to provide a couple Does anyone have any questions on that? A couple staffing updates. Um we did hire our new code enforcement officer Dan Pearson. He is the city's first permanently. This is he does not wear multiple hats. So, he is really unique for us. Um, permanent code enforcement officer. He is a quartertime employee this year. I have made the request to the city council uh for their consideration to bump him to at least halftime of 20 hours a week next year, but Dan is getting onboarded. He's only three weeks in uh very very you know like 13 and a half hours a week. It's very nominal, but we're really trying to start getting him into a system of monitoring and staying after our code enforcement complaints. Um, so that is really exciting to have somebody just dedicated to that. And then also we are currently hiring um for and have vacancy for an assistant community development director. This is going to be a planning manager, a planning EDA manager in the 2025 budget. Um, we went out for the position and received two applicants, neither of them having any planning experience. So, we re-evaluated the job description, the title, the pay, went back to the council and said, "Hey, we're going to have to sweeten the pot a little bit here." Um, the first round of application reviews is June 23rd. If you know anyone that is even slightly experienced in this world, we're really looking for somebody to help support um you all and your work mostly in land development, but they'll also help support some of the kind of crossover between planning commission and EDA, some of those long range planning things. That's where I'm at. Any questions? Any questions for Abby? Hearing none. All right. Council person Larson. Council person. Oh, you don't have to get up. You got microphone right here. Okay. I can stretch my legs. I'm doing okay. Welcome. Uh, thank you, Chairman Gerard. Commissioners, uh, welcome, Martin. I hope you enjoyed your first meeting and get your feet underneath you here a little bit. Um, I was out of town for the prior city council meeting. I was on vacation with my family in Germany, but I was here for Monday's meeting. Uh Abby did a phenomenal job just kind of hitting some of the highlights a little bit of our meeting and I think the big one was the pizza pub event there. Um we went over our audit which I think was we commented that we did very very well. Very impressed with uh our bookkeeping. So, uh, with that, I really don't have too much, but I'd be happy to try to answer any questions of you folks. Questions for our council person. So, Martin Jeff is our liaison. So, he brings information from the council and he'll bring planning commission information to the council. So, that's why he graces us with this present. Y'all are starting the budget process. We are. Um, as always, you know, it's always contentious subject. Uh there's never enough money in the pot for all the little things that we got going on, but um we're as always try to be budget savvy, but we there's things there's needs and needs and there's wants and wants. So um I think we all just have to sharpen our pencil on some of that stuff here, but it's just a start of the process. And do either one of you want to talk about the new program with the the enhanced program with the EDA for um I certainly can. I don't Jeff isn't as familiar with it. So the EDA historically has had a 10% reimburseable grant program that would give uh business owners 10% of a total project's cost with a maximum of $5,000 for exterior rehabilitation. uh our take on a facade improvement program, but we expanded it to allow for some other exterior improvements. Um since COVID, we have not utilized the program at all. And part of that could be um lack of education and marketing. It could just be all the things. We don't have permanent EDA staff. It's it's it's me and you guys got me and you know, like I'm kind of kind of got a lot going on. Um, but I worked with the EDA to expand the program to any commercial uh, any essentially non-re residential, so any commercial or industrial property. And there's three different kind of tiers. I still kept the word tiers in them, but three different kind of funding levels. um they'll fund up to 50% of a project um that is $10,000 or less with a maximum of $5,000 or 25% of a project greater than $10,000 with a maximum of $10,000. So you'd have to spend what would that be $40,000 to get the 10? Is that how that works? My math isn't the greatest, but I did it. You did good. Yeah, I already had had some people in the hopper waiting and so I think we might even have some applications on the EDA's agenda next month. Essentially, they've got to submit their application form, an estimate. We take a look, we get an agreement in front of the EDA, they can go do their work. Once they're done, they submit paid bills to me, make sure the work's done, and then we give them money. And it really is just an commercial improvement incentive program. It's it's essentially what it is. is just trying to incentivize people to to invest in their properties. So, and this iteration has a parking lot um improvement section, one of the tiers. All right. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Just on a closing note, I just like to say uh thank you to Abby for all her hard work on everything. Um since we lost our other person to another job, I know she's got a lot on her plate and I appreciate her dedication to everybody. Thank you. Do you have anything? No, not tonight. Susan, those of you that know Hannah Valento, she had her baby last week. All right, Henry. Mom and baby doing well. Yes, they are. She thinks she'll only be out a few council meetings and then be back. So she's she is taking maternity leave, but I think she plans to be back sitting at the dis maybe in another within a month or two. So going to sneak the fasten to do is just like rock them with your foot right the whole time. So this these folks remember my my girl coming to Oh yeah. My boys used to come to the planning commission meetings. Oh yeah, that's about the look they had too. Like really? Jesse, congratulations on getting married last weekend. Um, did you have anything for us tonight? Uh, nothing. Hey, Martin, welcome to the planning commission. Thank you. I just want to tell you that um I'm here to learn and try and absorb everything I can and I'm open to constructive criticism. Um my former job was with the state of Minnesota as a corrections officer, so I'm used to people getting in my face and telling me exactly what they think. I expect that you will as well get in my face and tell me what I need to know and help me along. So, I look forward to upcoming meetings. The League of Minnesota Cities has some really great training. Yeah, we've provided him with some um league resources. They don't necessarily uh offer a planning zoning specific um training like they used to. Yeah, they had some really good stuff. They've got some really great paper documents. I actually um so we still have a vacancy. If you know anybody that's interested, send them our way. happy to chat with anyone if they're interested. Um my hope was after we get all seven um filled that we might be able to take one of our meetings early fall and bring in a facilitator to just kind of go through some one-on-one planning, zoning, you know, stuff. I do that all with you when you start. Um but it's really high level. Some of the the kind of tips, tricks, dos, don'ts, that sort of stuff, legal stuff that's really more specific to planning and zoning. I think we try to get somebody out to do a little bit more training with you guys. So, and I have nothing to add. Uh, so thank you all tonight for your wisdom and input. And the chair is looking for a motion to adjourn. So moved. I have a motion. Do I have a second? I'll second it. I have a motion and a second. It's a nonavatable motion. All those in favor signify by saying I. Opposed? Abstensions? Motion carries. Thank you very much. See you in a few weeks. [Music]