All right. Good evening everyone. Like to call to order the March 18th, 2026 meeting of the Parks and Recreation Commission. First order is roll call. >> Commissioner Seiring >> here. >> Commissioner Morhead >> here. >> Commissioner Tyson here. >> Commissioner Gary here. >> Commissioner Lmark >> here. All right, if you're able, appreciate you joining us and stand and ple join the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, to the republic for which it stands, one nation under indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Uh item four, approve the agenda. Uh any changes to that? Otherwise, a motion to approve would be in order. >> The only thing I saw in it was under the farmers market. It said um have they reached out to the Rotary Lions? And it was just Rotary. The Lions could be >> I don't know if they reached out to both is what I read that to be. >> Rotary or Lions? I thought it was just Rotary. But >> what do you think, Kyle? >> If you said both, leave it in. But >> so the farmers market update is the agenda item. >> Yes. >> Well, no, that was in the was in the minutes. It was asked whether you reached out to the Rotary Lions, but those are two different organizations. >> Well, for the for the minutes, we'll get there, but for the agenda, I think is what we're looking for. >> Yeah, it's the agenda. The agenda. That's okay. >> Okay. Move approval of the agenda. >> Okay. Karen moves approval of the agenda. Second. Nikki seconds. All in favor of the agenda say I. >> I. I. >> Okay. Opposed. Uh, open forum. Do we have anybody who wants to speak to the commission? >> Okay. >> Riley and Keith. >> And Kyle, for the roll call, want you to add that Sue is here now. Yep. >> Okay. All right. Uh, Riley Richardson, appreciate you coming. Just once again, say your name and address. For the record, >> I'm Riley Richardson. I live at 4406 Douglas Drive in Crystal, Minnesota. Uh I'm with MWP Recreation, and I just wanted to stop in and introduce myself as we plan on participating in the RFP for Bay View Park. Uh so MWP Recreation represents Game Time Playgrounds. So, we have Minnesota, Wisconsin, and North Dakota, and we build community healthy spaces and uh incorporate inclusive and accessible design in our in our projects. So, I just wanted to stop by and introduce myself. I'm just excited to participate and we'll have some designs for you guys next month. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, Riley. Appreciate you coming up here. >> That's right. Face to the name, >> Keith. And I apologize. I probably won't get your name pronounced right. Caholi. >> Forget the H. Okay, Keith Lake with 7841 Northshore Trail North. I'm with Let's Go Fishing Forest Lake and uh hopefully you know we provide uh free fishing outings for veterans, seniors, disabled individuals and youth and we'll be uh starting up in Forest Lake here in June. So, um things are progressing nicely for us. Uh we're in good financial shape. We partially because we decided to buy a used pontoon boat. That's a wheelchair accessible pontoon boat. So, that's helping keeping our our requirements low. Um, but we have great generosity in this in this uh town and thanks to your generosity, we're we're in good financial shape and we'll be fine for the first year uh for sure at this point. So, uh that's kind of that focus is behind us now and we're moving on to to getting our guests and getting our volunteers signed up. We have about 20 volunteers. Our goal is to have 40 to 50 volunteers to man our boat uh this summer and we have um four only four organizations joined up so far, but we're just focused on getting them signed up. Um and the intent is to have about four or 500 people. our guests out on our boat this summer. So, it's a little bit of a stretch, but I think we can get there. Um, so far we just we just put our calendar out this last week and we already have 20 trips uh reserved already, which will be roughly 100 to 150 guests that are will be out there and that includes about 80 guests from the YMCA. So, great. Things are moving along nicely there. So, very thank you for your support. Hope we can get you out there and hope you could experience being out on our boat with us this summer. >> You mentioned the calendar. Where where do you put your calendar looking for volunteers? >> Oh, you to sign up as a volunteer, you just go out to our website which is www.forestlake at our acronym let's go fishinglgfws.com and right on the front page it'll tell you where to go to to volunteer as a >> great >> to register as a volunteer. >> Good luck. >> Yeah, thanks. We >> Yeah, thanks Keith for your efforts on this. >> Going to be a nice and nice uh nice program for everybody. Thank you. >> Yeah, we think so. Okay. Item six, approve meeting minutes. And Melissa, you had a tweak. Okay. >> Ahead, but yes, >> I see that now. And yeah, it looks like it just says about the rotary lions helping. Um, and that was just a rotary that we had discussed that Karen had asked. So, I can remove that lions. >> Great. >> Any other revisions to the minutes? Otherwise, a motion to approve would be great. >> So, move. >> Tim moves. >> I second. >> Melissa seconds. All in favor? >> I >> opposed. All right. Item seven, Forest View Estates Park Dedication. Abby, welcome. >> Thank you, chair, members of the commission. It's good to see you all. Uh so, uh the commission should be aware of Parkland dedication. This isn't the first time you've kind of gone through it. fairly recently and you can expect to keep seeing us because we have quite a number of developments that are getting early stages of planning for construction both 2020 u approvals and construction both 2026 and beyond. So tonight before you is consideration of parkland dedication with Forest View Estates. This is the preliminary plat portion. You may have remember seeing the concept plan um maybe last fall even. I can't necessarily remember the timeline of it. Um but the current proposal is uh Forest View Estates is proposed just to the northwest of Cooling Camp Park. So we do have on the screen there for you just to the west of First Lake just to the northwest of Cooling Camp Park. It's a 15.85 acre site and there's approximately 12.46 46 acres of developable land. It is proposed to have 20 single family homes. The park commission's role in development review is to look at parkland dedication requirements. State statute allows the city to accept parkland as part of preliminary plat or as part of the platting process because of the impact that would be placed onto the park system. So your role tonight is to review the proposal and then provide recommendation to the city council. We always look at the context of the park system and the development proposal to see exactly what's being proposed where to see what other kinds of facilities are there and whether or not parkland dedication is needed. So the site is located within 1 half mile of the service area of Cooling Camp Memorial Park. residents currently rely on those existing parkland facilities and then if there's trail facilities in the area city plans, so our comprehensive plan and our park and trail plan do not call for additional new parks in this area. So this is everything that you'd seen already in the packet materials. Since the packet was released, we've had some correspondence with the land owner and the developer. So I'm going to introduce just a little bit more um for you for discussion tonight. Um, some of this has to do with the history of parkland dedication in the area. So, the purple box that you see there is a piece of property that was dedicated to the city and added into cooling camp park by former owner of uh the land and then former developers of subsequent other parcels known as bittersweet. So the bittersweet subdivision occurred in 1987 and 1993 are both approved by the town the town of Forest Lake prior to their incorporation into the city. So I'm going to give you some reference here is that bittersweet one and two are these parcels right here roughly at the time of um at development. the developer has or the land owner has provided us with some documentation that says park land of that piece that's shown in purple or purple bounded would be satisfied for all three phases of bittersweet. We only have record of two phases of bittersweet and there is assumption that the site that's being before you tonight is the third phase. So in discussions with um legal council, legal council has advised that parkland dedication is um can be accepted at the time of land subdivision. The property in question has never been subdivided and therefore we do have a right to ask for parkland dedication. Now, that being said, um this is ultimately one of those circumstances where we do have to go back through our file records pretty thoroughly to verify whether or not the city or former township had any sort of legal agreements regarding that formally dedicated land. So, fast forwarding to the development at least today and your consideration, as I mentioned, 12.4 developable acres. There's.24 two four acres that would be dedicated for a trail corridor up in the kind of northwest corner of the property. That trail will connect into the existing cooling camp park and also serve as connection to the the neighborhoods that will develop to the north. So we take those that land area for the trail off of the developable acreage and we now have a 12.22 net developable acres which would require 1.22 acres of dedication. As I mentioned, we're not uh this isn't an area the city had been seeking additional land for dedication. So, included in your staff report would was the staff's recommendation that we would um recommend the council accept that public trail dedication and then also accept cash in lie of the land contribution that would satisfy the remaining dedication. Staff's recommendation tonight, even though we do have a little bit more history, remains unchanged. We do believe that you should make recommendation to the city council that we would accept cash in lie of the land dedication and if it is determined that there was land dedication that was previously satisfied then that we would share that with the council at the council's consideration. >> Any questions? >> Thanks Abby. Commission members questions. >> I have Karen >> a question. I haven't gone out to cooling camp for forever but when I was it was pretty much all athletic baseball fields. Has there been anything added as far as like park amenities that would qualify for a park around that area? I mean, is it just athletic fields? >> Uh, there is a playground at Cooling Camp Park and a a picnic pavilion at Cooling Camp Park that also kind of serves a wider neighborhood than just the athletic facilities. >> Okay. Well, I have to go visit more often. >> Yeah, >> probably was. And then the the trail 10- foot pretty average, wide enough, bikes, people. >> Yep. Yep. >> Okay. >> Other questions? >> When is Colon Camp slotted for any updates? Do we know that? Sorry, Dave. >> We'll talk about later in the uh CIP. >> Okay. It's coming though, right? >> And then Abby, would you mind going back to the parcels for me? Just show me again the three that we're looking at. So the one with purple around it, that's the cash and Lou. And will that be >> this is land that the city owns >> that has already been acquired as part of the previous land subdivisions that had occurred before this. So bittersweet one and two. >> Abby, your cursor is not showing up on the >> Thank you. >> We'll just get here a little laser pointer. That purple parcel we own. >> Okay. And then this would be bittersweet one and bittersweet two. And then the the premise being potentially this was intended to be bittersweet three that this land dedication satisfied the land development requirements for all three phases. >> Thank you. You're welcome. >> Thank you, Kyle. >> Abby, would the action be accept the cash in L and also the public trail dedication? Um I mean you certainly yes can make your motion to accept the trail dedication and fee in lie of the remaining land. >> Okay. I think that would be the clear um that we we we're approving both or recommending both the trail and the cash. >> Somebody want to make a motion if there's no more questions. I make a motion that we accept the trail dedication and the money in >> cash in l >> cash in in lie of um property. >> Okay. Karen makes a motion. >> Second. >> Tim seconds. Any more discussion? All in favor? >> I >> I opposed. All right, that passes. Thanks, Abby. >> Thank you. >> Looks like you get to stay with us. >> I'm going to How did that happen? Our >> We like that. Give me just a second. I just unplugged to change the document and my display settings changed. >> So the next item is Lakeside Memorial Park boat launch discussion and recommendation. >> I wonder where he is. >> Could you just uh try the podium one more time? Here we go. All right. So, on tonight's agenda is a discussion item and recommendation to the city council regarding the Lakeside Memorial Park boat launch. um giving you some background. Uh I think this commission knows I like to give you the the the background of um of why we're here, how we got here. So, in June of 2005, the city entered into an agreement with the DNR that the DNR would pay for a significant portion of the Lakeside Memorial uh park or the First Lake public boat launch. And that agreement with the DNR said, "Hey, city, we're going to do this, but you need to maintain it for 20 years." That period of 20 years has now since um expired. In July of 22, the city council adopted a downtown plan. The downtown plan called for many different improvements throughout the downtown and a few relevant things in Lakeside Memorial Park. One of those things in Lifeday Memorial Park was consideration of relocation of the downtown boat launch. In addition to that, it would be also the consideration of consolidation of the docking facilities. So, both your boat club and the transient boat docks. And then also the installation of u public improvement on the north side where that launch had been of a new um entertainment kind of stage. So, additionally, um, since that time, the 20 in 2024, the city also conducted a a shoreline stabilization study and a boat launch relocation study. So, as part of those plans, it was kind of twofold. One, we know that the shoreline in Lakeside Memorial Park is not the greatest, is not the most stable. Annually, our public works department is going out and reconstructing the shoreline. The shoreline in essence is not constructed in a way that will continue to withstand the pressure, the seasonal pressure that the lake is facing in that area and thus we do end up with some erosion. We'd like to try to protect the shoreline in that area and so that was why the stabilization study was done. So as part of that, the city contemplated if the launch could be relocated, where could the launch go? Um the first option was leaving the launch where it is. The second option was uh utilizing existing rightofway in 2nd Avenue Northeast. And then the third option was a little bit farther north um in the 4th Avenue Northeast right ofway and on adjacent uh property next to that undeveloped or that uh underdeveloped rightway. At the time that the study was brought before the city council, the city council determined that that northern location is their preferred location for a relocation of the launch. But I do want to note that portions of that launch facility, all of the ancillary parking for that is located on private property and is not property that the city owns. So, in other words, the council has indicated they would like to move the launch outside of Lakeside Memorial Park, but they've identified a location that we do not yet own. The shoreline stabilization study also looked at different conceptual plans and identified a preferred alternative to the plan that does include a significant amount of rock um uh stone put in much larger boulders. Um they're actually um dimensional boulders. Is that what you would say? Stacked dimensional boulders that are designed to to withstand the pressure that the lake is causing with that heaving. Um in that shoreline stabilization study, there was the uh analysis that the city could stabilize the shoreline and consolidate docks with or without that launch in its place. So tonight, what the reason that this is before you is some of this happened long before this commission was seated and it was the idea that we needed to get back in front of this commission to get your input so that our public works staff and park staff could move forward with planning for a public infrastructure project. predominantly the shoreline stabilization though it does directly link with that boat launch relocation um potential. So tonight for your discussion is just the concept of shoreline reconstruction. I don't imagine you'll spend a lot of time on this but really the idea is this requires annual maintenance. We need a long-term stable plan and we need to start capital planning for that. You'll hear a little bit about that later on, I think, with public works director Adams. So then that leads us to the launch. Um there is no publicly available alternative, but there are upgrade and repair concerns that we have. However, should we need to upgrade and decide to keep the launch in this location, we are going to need to do that either at our own cost or in a new agreement with the DNR. And if we enter into a new agreement with the DNR, we are entering into another long-term commitment to keep the launch in this location. So the the discussion tonight and the staff's recommendation is for you to discuss that shoreline stabilization with or without the launch. And um staff acknowledged in the staff report, hopefully you all read those before you come, that this is not an easy conversation to have and that staff recognizes you might not be prepared tonight to make a recommendation. And so staff is here acknowledging that um we're here to support the commission. Um, and when I say we, I mean the team here is here to support the commission if there are ways in which this commission would like additional public outreach and public input either by surveys, public open houses and or public hearings um scheduled before you. So big topic for conversation um but I think one that's necessary for us to kind of move forward with some of those lakefront improvements that are probably a little overdue. Okay, >> questions. >> Well, thanks Abby. Uh, questions or comments? Open it up. >> I'd like to see that location map you have of the alternative sites again just to kind of get oriented. >> Yes. So, this is the red is the current launch, >> right? >> And the red is Oh, that's right. My pointer doesn't work unless I point out the laser. So the red is the current launch which shows three different parking areas associated with the launch. So one directly connected to the launch, one just across the drive and then a little bit further down the way. Um this secondary launch in Second Avenue Northeast did not have any connected boat parking. However, uh the plan had contemplated developing some boat parking behind some of the commercial businesses along um Highway 61. the preferred alternative um up in the 4th Avenue Northeast did account for uh adjacent parking and that adjacent parking is the part that is wholly located on private land. Um those parking spaces if I remember do add up to the number of parking spaces that we do currently have. Though the plan did identify an alternative addon. However, I don't I'd have to go back and double check. I don't believe the final plan wanted to include this. I don't think the council wanted to identify that as a a designated future boat parking area. >> So that is that on private property or is that city property? >> The blue the blue circle >> y >> partially on city property but also partially on private property. But that's where I do believe that this uh the final plan did omitted and the council's approval of the document omitted this um ancillary parking >> and then the uh the site as far as the boat launch itself that presently is owned by somebody else and not the city. >> The red one. >> The blue one. >> The blue one. Um yes, correct. that predominantly we own the 4th Avenue right ofway. Um but where the parking is and what I would say is also the kind of backup is on private property >> and would certainly discussion be had with the owners of that property. >> We have reached out to them but have not received any. Um >> that's the one that hasn't responded. >> Yep. Correct. Um Karen >> would if I'm correcting this right you'd be turning off a north shore to get on to the boat lamp boat landing >> that is correct it looks like that property next to the funeral home that is correct >> corner there from coffeemith >> the coffee shop you know and there's a problem there to begin with so >> I remember that yeah and I just remember the conversation when the whole plan was being built that the existing boat launch was the one that everybody preferred city-wise I mean people-wise I don't know what the city's plans you said the preferred one with the off blue or whatever, but um I just looking at them all again, thinking about it, I just think I still like the existing boat launch, but would it would encourage the shoreline restoration? And you said there's some upkeep of that. I don't I'm not afraid of the 20 years because I think the last 20 years I haven't heard any problem with the property that they were right there to to help. And so I'm not The restoration could occur with the launch to remain in place. Um, it does kind of move the uh consolidated docking system when we just decide to move forward with that further to the now I'm all messed up south. Um, and wouldn't also not allow for a dedicated non-motorized launch. So, in the current um scenario with the launch potentially being removed from this location, this area would be redesigned to have a non-motorized launch and um and like a kayak canoe storage. Additionally, it would not also accommodate in the next 20 years the potential for additional um green space or performance. I know we had talked many times about using some of the other entrances for the non-motorized, you know, the canoes and kayaks and whatever that they don't necessarily need that big a space. They just need some place. And there were other places around the lake that you could handle that. But there's very few pe I'm surprised to see these. There were very very few at the time that were found to accommodate the boat launch. >> Somewhere on the other side of the lake. >> I'm sorry I didn't Can you repeat that? when the when the whole discussion was out there, I didn't see any other boat launch um area that we could use. >> No. Uh there really is not alternatives for relocating the launch. That's what the study really the study initially the scope of work for the study I want to say there was six or eight we said we would look at of close sites and really it came down to there was really only the two other alternatives. um both of them having some you know pros and cons. Mhm. >> I think one of the, if I can add, I think the biggest thing our commission here needs to consider too is the additional parkland, right? The being the main premier park in the city, that's a large chunk of the park being dedicated for boating and parking. And I think that's one of the biggest things that we want the the commission to kind of consider is do we want to give up that parkland space for boat and trailer parking? So, so Abby, the the council's decided already to move the boat launch, haven't they? >> The council has already decided that the launch location in blue is their preferred location. The circumstance that we're in right now is we cannot move it to our preferred location. So, um, regardless necessarily, take the launch out of it for a second, we need to move forward with stabilization of the shoreline. >> So, let me just on that, >> it's the preferred option. So I take it there's no appetite to use eminent domain. >> Um there might there might be. I don't know. We have not discussed that with this council. >> Is there a time frame where you think that's going to be resolved because it seems like this is a critical item is >> if this vision is going to happen. It's is it going to happen or not? Cuz obviously you know there's there's there's tools to have this happen if the council is go seems like if the council's made a decision to move it there. Is it gonna is it gonna just is anything gonna move forward or not? >> Well, clear that up for me. I know it's >> Is that their they're going to move it there or not? I thought they were looking for advice and and answers. >> No, the council has already determined this is their preferred location. >> Preferred site, but they haven't decided that they're going to take that site. >> Um there there has not been conversations and condemnation of private land for relocation of the boat launch. >> All right. I was thinking kind of a >> a nightmare. >> Oh, you bet it was disaster. >> So, I may add something into it. I I think the council did select that as a preferred method, but they also acknowledged at that meeting that there wasn't a current parks and recreation commission and that they wanted feedback from this commission when this commission has had been formed. So I I think part of that's why this is being brought to either confirm confirm or get that same recommendation or to have a different recommendation or comments from the park and recreation commission. >> Well, to Kyle's point is you know Karen, you know from Arts in the Park, it's a nightmare to have that boat launch there with all the people for Arts in the Park. And if we could convert that boat launch area into parkland, it would really make that park great. and that and the parking for the boats there. While there are several spaces in all those different places, it sure is nice to have that one streamline and you don't have strollers going behind and all the things that we have down in Lakeside Park. I've always thought that was an odd place for our main boat launch. I mean, moneywise for the business is good, but >> there's a lot of reasons why it's good um to have it there. There's some reasons, like you said, back and forth where yes, you'd be nice to have that land available for other things, but we also have to remember these Boers and these people with boats that come, they're not just no one. And so I'm kind of the condemnation part doesn't sit well with me at all for that. But >> I there problems with where it is, but that you we're talking about maybe some fixups or changes with it that it could still be there and changed somewhat or you're just saying it can't be there at all? >> No, I'm not saying it can't be there at all. I think the the ar the argument is the both the shoreline and the launch are in need of repair, right? And what are we going to do with those facilities until such time as the launch could be relocated if it could be relocated? >> So you can't separate the two. You could do the restoration now without having a firm commitment on the boat launch. >> Um as shown yeah in the slide that I had already you you can do that. Um I think it's just the idea of do you want to move forward with leaving that launch there? If that's the case, then I do believe public works department, park staff are going to be coming back and talking about those improvement costs. So, yeah, that's it's the shore. So, there's two things going on. This to Aby's point, exactly. There's shoreline that needs to get restored and also the boat launch is 20 years old. So, that's why they have that cycle is because it's dilapitated, right? The docks are shot and probably if you've been down there, you see that all the the concrete is shifted around. when there's a big wash out. I mean, we get constant complaints all summer long how horrible it is. >> So, you either >> So that that's why part of this question is is if you go lock in with the DNR, the DNR will redo this boat launch, but then you're signed a 20 year you're that's going to be there for sure for another 20 years. If you do it yourself, it's between around couple hundred 200 to $500,000 depending on what you do there. But if you do that then you don't want to all of a sudden a year later move your boat launch over to somewhere else you know so it's you there's capital pro you know we need to do the boat launch but we don't want to make those improvements there if the discussion is that we don't want it there and that should be somewhere else >> I guess you know my my thought is um you know like for like the boat races so how do you move all that from the boat races up to that the North preferred spot. >> I I think that's something that would be a a whole different concept conversation to worry about. I think the biggest thing again is just kind of um thinking about our main park having that space either be dedicated for the boat launch or not and then not worrying about if we move the boat launch, how does it affect those those bull races? There's other there's other ways to have those discussions and other times to do it. I think the biggest thing is just we have that res restoration that's got to take place. Do we want to do the whole shoreline with the boat launch or without the boat launch? And that's kind of where clearly might have to come back for a separate staff report. >> Whereas the shoreline project planned for the summer deep >> it this the project and the boat launch all got dollar amounts put on it. So it was you'll see that later in the CIP that it's a capital project that's just kind of hanging out there. Uh was 1.5 million 1.45 million something like that to do that. I mean obviously we chase grants and and funding for that. We wouldn't hopefully have to pay for that out of pocket but it's been floating from I can't remember when this been done 20 >> 23 24. know it's been just every year it just jumps another year in the CIP because it's >> so if we decided to do this project then it would I mean obviously it would be not the next summer it probably the following one to try to get to get funding for it. >> Do we have time then to let the city flush out whether that option the moving the boat launch to that private property is even an option? Yeah, >> because if if that if if there's agree city reaches agreement with that land owner that moves that launch up there, then this issue goes away for us, right? >> I think it might be driven by this commission to see really what what your thoughts are is do we want that bolt launch to stay or do we want it to go? I think that kind of could be a driver. >> But but I guess I'm looking at cost here. So, if you if you're repairing your boat launch where it is, what does that cost compared to uh obtaining the the new ground and then developing that into a into a launch? What's what's the difference in cost there? >> I don't think we >> So, I I think there was some price with that as well. I don't know if you know him off the top of your head, but I believe in talking with the DNR, the DNR does not want to get in the business of buying land, >> right? >> But they'd heavily participate in building the the launch, the parking lot, and all that, you know, so >> their expense, not for expense. >> Do they have a do they lean one way or the other which way which would be the better location for the launch? >> No. >> Do they have an opinion? >> No, they have no opinion. >> And they have no opinion. if we close it, never put one back. They they said they they provide two public accesses to this this uh light ready. They don't have a comment on this third one. >> They participate if the city added a third and requested another launch, but they don't. If we decided today to shut it down, they wouldn't. >> Okay. >> That's so Yeah. I just wanted to make a note. So, the cost of creating the preferred location is that, but I would assume that there's going to have to be some traffic flow changes there. That's a tricky spot to be putting boats and trailers. >> Yeah. >> Coming in and out. >> So, there would have to be some change with the street layout and stuff. >> The new location. >> I don't know if you go back to that again. It shows you coming in off a fourth and there's a turnaround. I mean, so it' all be with inside that >> across the coming into six. Yeah. >> Coming off a Northshore trail. You go around a circle, you back in, then all your parking ramp or slots are angled that way. >> Then to come back and get it, you'd circle back around. >> It's Northshore Trail getting out onto 61 with leaving the lake and then you >> Yeah, the funeral parking. Oh jeez. >> I mean, that that would be where I would think something would have to give right there. Yeah. Yeah. >> I would think that's that's outside our scope really to worry about. You know, it's it's the that's that we wouldn't solve that problem. That would be somebody else engineering what would be the best traffic control there. >> Making them aware that it would be a problem. >> Yes. >> Yep. >> Well, right now, Trev the leaving it where it is, we wouldn't have to pay the repairs. They would come and repair it. Is that correct? We'd have to sign the 20-year, but >> we wouldn't have the expense. >> That is correct. >> Correct. And to me >> there might I can't say a full expense. I think it's a cost share. But predominantly the DNR would pay a significant portion of the costs of the launch no matter where it was located. But like Dave had said >> um the DNR doesn't require the city to maintain that first lake launch. So I think the ultimate question might come down to this commission. You know how insistent are we that we maintain a first lake launch? And the shoreline restoration is on our dollar and the boat launch being there is creating more of that erosion. >> Is that what I understood you? >> Uh the boat launch being there is not creating more erosion. The seasonality is creating the erosion. But as part of the uh restoration project, you want to try to, you know, do as much as possible so that we're doing as much as we can at the same time, >> right? >> Um versus necessarily leaving a portion of it unfinished into the future. one one of your questions was what do we think about having a survey or a you know public >> and I just think I hear a lot of different ideas here or different things that what does everybody think about going out to the public again I don't think it was very popular last time but that could have changed nobody likes the survey idea >> I'm just wonder if that's a hornets's nest you're poking >> well I'm thinking you are >> well let me tell It wasn't fun to come here tonight. So, I mean, you know, >> I So, I think I'm hearing that one of the first issues is does park commission still want to keep this boat launch where it's at as a recommendation or go to the preferred option. Let's if we bat that one around. >> I think I think I' I'd make a motion to keep the boat launch where it is. Can >> I have a couple questions? Do we know >> approximately how many people that come from outside of the city to use this or how many people really use this bolt launch. >> We can get some numbers from the watershed district. I know we recently got those numbers for another uh development project that's going on. So, we can share with you at least how many people are using the launch. >> We can't necessarily from where they are. We just haven't been utilizing software to kind of track that. Um, but there is software out there now that you can or applications that you can just cell phone data start to look to see where your visitors are coming from. >> Well, it would just be interesting to see how many people really use this. How many people is it really going to affect, right? Because there's people, yes, that live on the lake. They utilize the space over here in Lakeside Park and all the things, >> arts in the park, whatever it may be. I think the lake association has has a number of fishing meetings about how many people have been using how many boats they've got to launch and things. >> I think there's maybe two fishing tournaments throughout the summer too from what I >> Yeah. >> So, so Tim made a motion to recommend the boat launch day where it's at. Does anybody want to second that? >> I'll second it. >> Karen seconds. more discussion. I'll just say I there's a lot of people that in that downtown study and the city council's looked at this and I like the preferred option. Uh and I think we've got time to flush that out. >> Yeah. >> Uh it's a it's a nightmare down there where that boat ranch is now. Boats if if you think the traffic's going to be hard up on Fourth Street, just watch them try to get back. They're behind all that commercial stuff and >> how long? But I it's exactly >> 20 years. >> Yeah, exactly. All of a sudden, it's going to be a huge problem. >> And I get the dollars and everything, but if we're going to have this vision for downtown come true, then we've got to look look at these this as an opportunity. Uh >> granted, it takes a long time for visions to come true. But if we put more investment into this boat launch where it's at for 20 years, that vision is not going to happen. So, >> well, >> and I can go either way with the majority, of course, but >> I would never go along with condemnate condemning property. >> I'd probably jump the gun on that because certainly they haven't even talked to the landowner yet that but um you can always negotiate and and work things hopefully out. So, >> and that's that's not our that's not our lane. So, I apologize for that. So, >> that's that's fine. >> So, any more discussion? Otherwise, Tim's motion is to keep the launch where it's at. Recommend we keep the launch where it's at. Uh, all in favor? >> I I opposed. >> I >> I So, it's 33. >> Oh, boy. >> Which pretty much defines this issue. >> I don't know that I don't know if it was 33. Any >> Oh, okay. All in favor raise your hand. >> Okay, >> I'm good. >> 33. >> Opposed. Where are you? which at least means that motion fails for a lack of majority. Um, and so what I'm hearing is that there isn't a a lot of consensus. And it seems like that maybe this commission needs a little bit more information um to be able to make some of those uh recommendations to the council. >> Um, how does the commission feel about gaining some public input? I always love it, but I I haven't got a good way of ever doing it. Um, no QR codes >> are the answer. >> So, this was in the downtown plan, right? >> It was there was a lot. >> This is in the downtown plan. >> Maybe we need to zoom in on just this issue for, you know, a lot of people maybe have forgotten the downtown plan or >> Yeah. >> Um, maybe we need to zoom in. love to hear what the boers that use it cuz you know the people that I mean there if you live anywhere near there you know how many boats go in and out of there. I'm I'm a sunrise runner and there boats in and out of there every morning. Um and then my friends live >> funny right where option one was which I'm glad that's not the option because I'd hate to go home and tell them that's what we were thinking. Um but they see you know the boats in and out of there all the time. I mean, um, I just think it's really nice with all the parking al together. That's a beautiful location. I hope we can figure that out. >> I guess I don't know who who the audience for the survey would be, Abby, and what we exactly would ask. >> Yeah. I mean, I think uh at least at the moment, neither do we, but I think this gives us some direction to go back and to put together a little bit of a plan to come back and see if you guys are comfortable with an approach for engagement. I think it would, you know, probably be a general public survey. We might want to survey those business owners down there. Um, that might be somebody else um to just inquire with. >> How about getting a hold of lake association? >> Yeah, I think asking the lake association. They do have, you know, a strong membership. >> Well, and their meeting is coming up April something. So maybe it could be well >> might be quick, but we >> discussion item. >> Yeah. So, I think at the moment, um, >> shoreline. >> I think that I could see enough heads nodding, you want to fix the shoreline. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> But you don't know yet what you want to do with the launch. Um, maybe a little bit more public input before we move forward with the shoreline project that included the launch or didn't include the launch. >> What we have to remember is an asset to have that boat launch there. I mean, it's an asset to our city. So, we can't treat it like it's nothing. >> No. >> So, I guess that's the other thing I think about too is that, you know, people particularly with, you know, my my boat club and everything being right there, they can walk fairly easily to drinks and food and whatever else. >> Yes. And >> night and and granted, it's only four blocks, but again, that's kind of away from the the area of drinking and eating and shopping. >> There's all those. your boat club. >> You can still dock up your boat. >> Those locations will stay the same no matter where the launch is. >> Those locations, >> but I'm just saying that the distance for the people to come, you know, where where if you're going right down to the main spot, it's a it's a simple walk. >> Yeah. The your boat club would remain we'd consolidate them. And granted, that's a it's a future potential public improvement. There's a lot of planning steps that we need to go through to be able to do that. This would actually consolidate the docks closer to where there would end up being a performance stage in the future on that north side. So it actually would probably could potentially at least in the you know those summertime Tuesday nights be more beneficial for those users. But >> yeah, do we have any? >> But it puts them also away from the music where they want us. >> But the music is uh that's the downtown plan calls for this to be green space with a uh uh >> performance stage band shell stage to be facing to the south. >> I apologize I didn't include that. Uh >> I can show you really quick if you give me a hot second. The music is is music is facing south and the >> launch will be stage >> of what it is >> improvement to the people. >> You're just thinking the people using the boat launch the the people using the boat launch could still boat dock up right off the park. It would just be the boat launch would be separated from the park. And that's what you're thinking is the boat launch people are separated from the food and the drinks. they would still have access through the water. Um, but you're just saying to park their vehicle. Um, but you know, the the other side of that would be you don't want people to park a boat and trailer and just, >> you know, you kind of want the traffic down there to kind of stay flow. But I think Aby's working on pulling up a a different map to show maybe downtown. >> Kind of just a visual to actually show you what the north side of the lake anticipated being. And I probably should have I know I hyperl to these documents and they're big documents. Um next time I'll remember to kind of pull together a little bit more. So >> can you remind me if we move the boat launch will the docks stay where they are? >> The docks at the moment would stay where they are but we would probably start a process to see if we can consolidate them both the transient docks with the your boat club. So there was more of a marina feel trying to consolidate those those motorized uses together to keep some of more of that shoreline um space a little less you know all the all the lakefront being dock space. So this is that north side here where currently the launch is. Oh I >> we like it though. That's a great >> nice >> I really wish it was mine, but you know that's >> While you're finding that, one question I have is was that ever talked about in the downtown plan to have a grand or a performing stage? >> I don't remember that at all. >> Yeah. >> Yes, it is included in the downtown plan. So, pull up the downtown plan really quick, which shows that cross-hatched area that we could just call our existing launch. Um, that that would uh go away and that there would be a new band shell in this area um on the north side that would perform to the south. I'll show you just a uh one couple pages here. So again, here's some just different potential designs where you could include uh separate docks. We have looked at the consolid potential consolidation, but there's that banshill with additional green space. You could also leave it open with green space behind it. But then that idea that you would have that kind of that parking, that drive, green space, band shell performance area, and then the docking system. Again, I like the gazebo and I think that's too close to have two performing places. >> I think that type of um stage would be awesome for all the different organizations in our in our area. They would love performing there. The dancing, the the bands, all of that. I mean, they've got the gazebo that is not really set up for a dance group or >> um I go down to um Hugo and they've built that beautiful area and boy when they do their their their weekend Hugo days it is amazing that you know put on talent shows and all of that and you know the gazebo is nice but you're ground level and there's just so much to say that's all I'll say but >> we'll talk about that other time >> okay all right so so Abby appreci as you obviously this is a >> ongoing conversation >> um certainly one piece that seems like it's important to uh some of the commission all the commission members is if we get cost estimates >> seems like that's also important. >> Sure. So I'm hearing cost estimates of the different types of potential work launch and ex existing location launch rehab with a potential cost share with the DNR and then relocation estimate costs and then also I'm hearing that some public input identifying maybe some of the uh numbers of people that are using that launch um if we can gauge where they're coming from as well as just maybe general public input including lake association input uh before this comes back to you >> if possible to the city engineer could give comments on the traffic flow. >> Sure. >> At both both sites existing and Okay. >> Sure. >> And whether or not the property owner is going to willingly give up that land because there'd be no other way that I >> just for one person would would condemn it. >> Yeah. It has been a while since we've reached out and so it's something that I would do again. Um but there hasn't hasn't been a a reach back. So >> the other neighbors too, I bet they'd be thrilled to have a boat launch right in there. >> Nikki, >> I mean, I me personally, I do like the opposite, a new location for it. And the only reason I'm saying that is I'm going back again just the nine years that I've lived here, watching Arts in the Park grow. >> It's growing. Yeah. >> Watching all of these families grow and more people coming up here, right? And so to me, I think my big important piece was to make sure even if we consolidate all the docks from the two different places, maintaining them there at the park so that people can still utilize them to boat, get off, go grab a bite to eat, grab some cocktails, do what you're going to do, then be able to get on. And again, if you do have to take four extra blocks, >> I don't know. I'm just a big fan of the big parking lot, too. I grew up down in the cities and it's really nice just to have it all conveniently located right there. >> People can see it's a turnaround. It's a go where right here we don't have a turnaround now. You know, it's it's kind of a system. So, I don't know. That's just my thoughts on it. I like >> new advancements, but again, because we don't know where time's going to bring us for the next 5 years if we keep expanding. >> That band shell and all that would be very beautiful. you know, we could just add on more again to Arts in the Park, see what future does. We don't know. >> And other additional programming. Um, you know, I mean, you can look at some of the other communities in the Northeast Metro and just how much their programming has grown and their community partners' um programming interest has grown when they've made public investments into their infrastructure. >> All right, so I think we're ready to go on. >> Thanks. >> Thanks, Abby. Thank you. >> Okay. >> 10-year park capital improvement plan. Dave, >> who wants to talk spending money? >> Where's my uh the intro? Just trying to zoom back in here. No, it's fine. Uh so we're getting crazily enough uh staff has already been asked to start putting together all of our budgets ready for 2027. Um working through operation budgets and capital. So uh our deadline to get our capital in is May. So, I figured I'd bring this uh forward to the commission to to kind of see what what staff has been working on or what the staff has kind of planned for uh the park fund. Uh an interesting development now right happened now too. We're splitting out the park fund and the park dedication fund um to separate those dollars. Um, we've been going through the past and noticing that park dedication dollars may or may not have been funding other part public projects that technically shouldn't be funded through park dedication. So, um, finance is going to separate the two. So, we can clearly see um the dollar amounts that are in each uh fund. It's not saying that those two funds cannot help to pay for one project uh together. It's just going to be a lot cleaner for staff and the commission and for the council to to know what dollars are in each account and what they should be be spent on. As a little background, the the park fund gets $425,000 a year from the general levy uh to do projects. Um about three years ago, there was zero dollars going into the park dedication fund. So staff has been and council have been working well to to build that up. Uh the goal is to right now to get it to $500,000 or the initial goal was to get it to that. They've been slowly adding incrementally increasing that over the last few years to get it up to that point. As said in the memo um um the the tenure fund or this was kind of written before we separated it. So the park fund that we'll be talking about in the capital that you'll see in the spreadsheet is the park fund that gets spent with levy dollars. If you look at that fund, we have through 2036 um basically spending out um what we have we are planning on spending at certain parks. It's basically trying to rehab a park a year over the next 10 years, including some the dog park that's in there next year. Some work at Castlewood. Uh you'll see that Hidden Creek Park and Southview Park uh are highlighted as park dedication. Um there's funds that will come in from Hidden Creek uh park and South View that will uh fund those improvements there. So that there's not a dollar amount right now proposed to be come out of this fund to build those two parks. Below that is a whole another list of things that either have been on the radar, have been requests, have been asked for desires of staff, other council members, and all that. As you can see, there's $16.5 million worth of things. So, and as you can see, the shoreline's in there and the boat launch and all that. So, >> there's a lot of a lot of wishes and a lot of desires. And right now, we don't have any of those dollars, you know, to spend on any of these at this point in time. We have to figure out how to try to factor them in or get creative with funding or um get direction that we want to push, you know, playgrounds that are kind of falling apart out a few years to try to fund some of these things in here as well. So when we get to discussions as park dedication and land, that's stuff that needs to be in your back of your mind that there's there's ancillary things that the community would like that we have to pay for and sometimes taking the cash in the development to help fund one of these project is helpful as well. But I'm looking for comments uh um of what you comments on this plan or just more getting in in your in your eyes to kind of see what you know public works and parks and wreck have kind of laid out for the next 10 years of a park you know this is basically the park maintenance plan taking existing and improving. So a question for you just because I don't know um >> earlier like when we were talking with Jiren or about Johnson the new development and doing cash in L for that plot of land there. When does that all take place in terms of them building? Does it come when they buy the development? I mean when does that exchange happen from the builder in the city? >> When do you get the cash in L? >> Yeah. Uh typically when the development agreement is signed, that's when all the fees come in. >> So if and you don't know that dollar amount until that's negotiated out with the developer in this in the city. >> Karen, >> I really appreciate separating it out because that gives us a much better vision of what we can do and what we should do. >> Yep. >> And so I appreciate that. Um you know, Kyle sitting next to you is great on running grants. Is there any way of grant writing coming into this picture at all? >> Yeah, I think we I think we can do a lot of that, right? And I've just this this is a 10-year plan based on if you watch the bottom line is trying to get it so you have a low year and then a high year and trying to balance out that if you had $500,000 a year, you could get all this done. And a lot of it's deferred maintenance on playgrounds. I mean, um, you know, Bay View was 20ome years old. uh what's in 27 is um Fenway Park that that if you've been out to Fenway Park that's just completely falling apart. All the rubber rubberiz is coming off the playground. So we've did a lot of years when there wasn't anything. There's about 10 years where no parks were touched between 2014 and 2024. So there was just a big gap where nothing really happened and 10 years is a long time when other stuff was getting older. So this 10 the good news is you get through these 10 years then all the parks have been gone through and updated. So there's going to be a section of time that you won't be having any needing to do playgrounds and all that that where it falls off in 36 that has now updated all of our existing playgrounds. >> And we keep that in a maintenance cycle. A good one. >> Yep. So, myself, I have a we have to submit a 20 or a 10-year plan to the city. I have a 50-year planed on my Excel spreadsheet at shop. So, as soon as we do a project, I put it out 25 years and 50 years. So, you know, all these projects that have a life cycle, you put it in there. So, the next me is already knows when these things are happening. >> Thank you. And then you start all over again having one every year. But before I mean Karen knows this is just as well that there was never a CIP for the parks. The the commission would ask for money and then the city council would say, "Well, where's your capital improvement plan?" And then they'd say, "Well, we don't have a capital improvement plan because we don't have any money." So it was an endless cycle. So finally, uh, I just put a capital plan together and said what we need to do is going to cost a million half dollars a year. that got their attention and we dialed it back to, you know, if we can get up to $500,000 a year, we can get caught up on deferred maintenance. The problem is you're not going to get a lot of your other fund projects done. They're not incorporating here. So, granting or bond, I mean, there's always bonding here, right? Bonding with grants that, you know, Kyle and myself can write that you can get some of these things on those bottom lines accomplished. Um at a later date we'll probably talk about you know priorities of this list. What what is what does the commission like to see done? We would really like to see a splash pad done or would really like to see you know lights at Fenway Fields or we'd really like to see a disc golf course. And if staff knows the priority list that can kind of help us figure out how we can fund these things whether through grants and and all these projects. So, >> okay, that 203 fund is really just your life cycle maintenance fund, Dave. Yeah, the big the big new parks that everybody loves. That's the list down below. >> Correct. And so, the 203 fund now will be your maintenance fund. And then I believe I can't remember what it's called. It's like the 220 fund will be now the park dedication fund where you'll be putting that list below into that kind of these new projects and you know where you have to try to fund in there. That's the whole reason of splitting them out so you don't get them confused of >> that is great. >> This one you look at is as maintenance. Exactly what uh Don said is you don't want to mix these two together. Okay, >> Dave. My the only we we don't need to talk about tonight, but at some point will we get an update on that castle wood and that >> for the other members that recall that 900k is for uh the irrigation system? >> Yep. I was going to give an update at staff uh that's fine now. So, we uh solicited a irrigation um consultant. They're going to do a full audit. Um so, they're coming in as soon as the snow gets out May. Uh was I think $3,000 to have him do a full um audit of the system, the pumping station, everything, and then come back with a recommendation. So, >> great. Great. >> In the queue with them, and he said as soon as it the they're out of Iowa, so they'll they'll come up as soon as the ground thaws and irrigation's fired up. Good idea. >> Appreciate your optimism. The snow will be gone in May. Yeah, >> it may it may be gone and then it may come back. >> All right. Any other comments or questions for Dave? There's no actions on this. He's just looking for comments and I'm sure that Dave and Kyle would take them after the meeting too if you digest it some more. >> Yep. Any uh comments? Uh we have until May 15th to get this uh the final cut off for submission into um the council's budget ask. So, anything before that time would be appreciated. >> And I don't know if there's an appetite with fellow members on this, but there's a lot of parks in here that I've never even seen or been to. And >> if we did a future meeting in when the weather's good and do a tour. >> I was thinking the same thing. >> I was too. >> So many new ones. I got a van. >> It doesn't It could Are you driving? It took longer to drive that. >> We can talk about that more with the logistics with Kyle if it's regular meeting time or we just pick a special time. >> So, it sounds like there's some heads nodding on that one. >> That's a good idea. You like that? Great idea. >> It doesn't have to be the, you know, at least maybe the ones in the first five years of the plan. Something like that. So, okay. >> All right. Thank you. All right. Staff report. Dog park. >> Park. Yeah, the hot ticket item. I think we have a few good we have few visitors. >> Um, yeah, just brought uh some land that we had talked about previously on what the commission would like to see access to maybe things like water, um the parking areas, the shade, kind of all those items that we talked about. But we identified um four spots that we felt were worthy coming here to talk about and just put in front of the commission. Um I don't think we have to get sold on one, but we can discuss which one we like best, what has the best options, you know, most potential, and maybe dive in if you guys have questions on some reasons why um we chose the four we did. So certainly just have some discussion open and share which ones you guys kind of like in in order. >> Can I thank him for putting it on in such a clear choices for us? I really appreciate the work that was done there. You identified some good spots and yeah want >> us to say which one we want. >> I like the idea of Bixby. >> Look at them on the screen so I can understand where they are or looked at them. I can Okay. >> I like A as well. >> A that's a >> I do too, but >> Oh, that is back by Tower Park. Okay, now I know where that is. >> Tower Park. >> Finley Park >> or whatever that >> there's a tower there. So, I called that by the dragon. >> So, option attachment A is land behind north of the fast food places. Culver's White Castle. >> Yeah. over by the dragon. >> Dragon park. >> Yeah, by the dragon park. >> Attachment B is southeast of the Fenway parking lot. You can kind of see the ball field a little bit in the upper corner there. Uh the county library is just to the south there. You can see the touch of that building. >> And this is okay with the airport. >> Yes. And then option C is because it's out of the zone. Karen. Karen. Attachment C is the public works site that we've previously looked at. >> Mhm. >> And then attachment D is uh >> South View. >> South View. Yep. I if there's one right away I would say we I don't like is D. Just the proximity to the residential homes. >> They can't see. Can we see it? >> I'm sorry. >> We're working on it. >> My excited. >> Hey. Oh, glad to have you here. >> Glad to have you here. >> We'll go back through these again then. A is >> there. So, >> and you can't see my cursor, of course, but >> it's up on the screen. Oh, >> yeah. There we go. >> Oh, yeah. I see. >> So, if you scroll down a little bit, you can see the where the fast food places. >> Yeah. So, there's white fast food places and the dragon park is to the east. >> So, I drove over there tonight and the water tower is straight ahead. So, the trees that you're thinking about, we need We have to clear out some trees cuz right now it's just like a little band of forest over there. >> Mhm. >> Um I couldn't tell what part of that you were going to think of where that drawing was. >> Well, then for the for the for the visitors. So, we'll go through these quickly again. Then, attachment B is the one that's by Fenway. A lot of people walk their dogs now in this area along the uh >> trail library. here for >> it would be similar to down to the south. >> Library is uh Can you zoom it out a little bit? Yeah, library is right there. >> Right there. Okay. >> Right across. >> And then attachment C is the uh public works >> future public works site. >> Which where is that? >> Public works site will be to the north of that 2 and a half acres >> by the Washington County. >> Yeah. It's >> that's to the east of the airport. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Kind of behind where that 61. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> And then >> so so it's not within the the airport runway protective zone >> cross that matter. >> Yeah. One of the criteria that we staff was make sure it's zoned okay to do this. >> There's no airport restrictions. And then D is >> once again right off 61. Uh Karen called it the South View area, but it's >> I think it was South View Park, wasn't it, before? >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> And you said you couldn't see it, but I think >> No, they couldn't see the couldn't see the screen. >> I thought someone here said they couldn't see it because to me it's it's usable land that we're never going to put into anything else. And it's very convenient for people to walk around that area. >> I like that area. I think this >> tall. >> So that self D is going to be right. So here's Fenway. >> Uhhuh. Oh, there we go. >> And then >> it's right here >> behind the storage units. >> Storage unit. >> Behind the storage unit. >> Storage units. Right there. >> Yeah. Call right behind in there. Oh, gotcha. >> And then that the public works site is >> right here. And that one 12 acre piece was part of this which is by Fenway. And then that first option I don't know what just happened there. >> It's just really giving you the great. >> So why don't we why don't we just go down the line and people give their comments on each four tonight. We don't need to make a decision, right Dave? >> Just now we're looking just for some some comments. We like all of them. We don't like any of them. we'll go back and or we prefer some of these maybe look into some of these more. I mean, anything any feedback >> you can give us would be fantastic. >> Okay. >> I think A and B are great. >> I I like >> Okay, >> that's >> I used to like A, now I like Better because I really liked where the people have already made kind of a dog park, but we couldn't do it because of the airport. So, if you found a spot there that we can do it with the airport's permission, I think that is to me my very first favorite one though. >> That's completely out of the airport. You have nothing to worry about there. >> Yeah, that's good because I love it. >> It's still walkable. It's got that walkability. >> Oh, yeah. Y >> and they use it there anyway. >> And A and B. I like A and B. But if uh if I had to pick though, it would be preference would be B for uh >> take advantage of the parking at Fenway already. People are already using that area. The other piece I uh city water will be very accessible right at the end of the Fitzgerald there for water. That was we was important. And then uh Kyle mentioned to me earlier that before the meeting that this is also prime for some walking trails which the city is short of through the wooded area. >> Yeah. Something to consider is just a extra walking trail which we're very short on. So you could definitely have a dog park but then you have a multiple use. Maybe do some trails throughout the the wooded areas. obviously do some clearing, but >> Tim, Sue, Karen, Nikki, >> I like the uh I like all of them to be honest. I think B I really like B2. Um I would just really be interested in what prime times I guess are for dog parks for people, right? Cuz I'm at Bet Fenway every day and there's already not parking in the spring or summer. We there would be um right off the edge of or the end of Fitzgerald. There would be the idea is you could put a parking a gravel start with like a gravel lot there. Um and yeah, I mean I think we would try to encourage people to not park at Fenway certainly, but you're going to people are going to do it. But if you have your own dedicated, you know, even if it's just a gravel lot to start, you know, you have several parking spots down there. >> I love that idea. Yeah. just something dedicated at least. >> No, no one mentioned third option which we kind of talked about already. So then we I would like to go down to again the South View area because again there's land there that I can't imagine what's ever going to be used for. And so that would be my my reason for liking that one. It would be a great spot to have a dog park, I think. But I still like the second one better. >> Okay. >> And just just to point out, we're not proposing a 12 and a half acre dog park either. That would be I mean, we're just showing that that how much land is available. I think we'd come if that was a preferred option. Then Kyle and and staff would look into, okay, what what should we do with this 12 acres? Uh, Don mentioned walking trails or something else that we try to put a better concept together of what we do with that acreage. So, I just want to make sure we all know that we're not going to put use that whole thing as >> you're being very generous. >> Good point. >> Really like you >> even the mix though having a place where you have the trails around it. You've seen dog parks like that. You know, you can be on leash on the trails and then go in there and they get to run free and so that's that's nice. I >> think you got some good feedback. >> If you can come walk up to the podium >> if you want to have it. >> Yep. If you Yeah. >> And then just give us your name and address. >> Talking to the mic. >> 19850 um Forest Road Trailside Senior Living. >> Um we're we're looking for an area where the dogs can just run on not a real treat area. I'd never find my dog again. Um, and benches. We're older. And, uh, receptacles and, uh, bag poles, you know, those are all great things to have there. And also a place for people to people to donate, you know, >> for the for the cause because we all love it. And it would help people to take better care, too. Mhm. >> I That's what I would do anyway as far as like because I care a lot about about my dog having a place to run. I have them on a long a long line. It just doesn't work cuz I can't run. So I I I love the idea. And I was wondering if you're talking about more than one or just one location or two locations or >> starting with more the marrier. >> Yeah, starting with one location. I think in a previous meeting we talked about you know future development you might have two parks that are dedicated um but right now we're starting with the one previously what was talked about was having a couple acres of fenced in area um and then dividing that by large dog small dog um but having it fenced in and then yeah that's I think the the goal um is kind of what we're trying to establish here is picking out that site y >> I'm wondering what where exactly ly is this one. >> Um this is so it is get my bearings here 202. >> So that airport >> Mhm. >> is right here and that um it's just north of the the new recycling center. So where am I at here? 202. >> Okay. And it's on the west side of 61. >> Yep. Or the the east side of 61. Just north of that new recycling center. So if the YMCA and um Yep. libraries here. The recycling centers here would be right in here >> on the other side of the swamp. >> What? >> So there's no chance of have is there land available by the airport? >> Number 10. >> The the second choice is this chunk right here. >> Yep. I like that one. >> Good. >> That helps. >> A lot of people already use it. That's why, you know, it's nice. >> It's walkable. That's what I like about it. It's walkable for all of everybody's living in those those um bluffs and such, they could walk over there and utilize it. Um so that's a great choice. >> Yeah, it's very nice to be able to just stop too and have have a if there's benches out there too to to sit, but >> then my dog wants to keep moving. So these the dog park would be great to let him run. You could just plop on the grass and watch them. You know, >> have a bench. We'll have you have a bench. >> That'd be wonderful. >> Anyway, that's that's my input. >> Thank you. Thank you for listening. Does your friend have anything to say or is she pretty much the same? >> I'm sorry. >> Did you have anything to add? >> No, only that I have right now for I have a big dog. >> Okay. >> And I go to um White Hair Lake. >> Okay. >> Lake for the off park and it's it's great. Lots of paths. That's a wonderful time >> except we live at trailite. >> Okay. >> So, yeah. Did I >> Thanks for coming. >> Yeah. Thanks for coming out tonight. >> Okay. >> So, Dave and Kyle, I think you got some good feedback from members tonight. >> Okay. >> All right. >> For that, >> staff report on the farmers market. So, just to finalize um moving forward with the farmers market, the purpose and regulation. Um brought that here last month just to kind of preview it, make sure there's no big changes. Um so, settled up on didn't make really any major changes. Just kept the the dates that we had talked about before that June 20th. Just we did have some um marketing out there uh for those dates. So, nothing really changed. We're just going to move forward with having um um the city council adopt that with with the recommendation that you guys had had preferred that. >> Sounds great. I think >> it's going to be fun. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you. I didn't pay him. >> So, just um yeah, like I said, just looking for the the motion to recommend the approval for for those. >> So, we like to make that motion that's in the uh packet. >> So, move. >> Tim moves. I'll second. >> Sue seconds. All in favor? >> I I All right. One one agenda note I for all of us is, you know, if we have members or public that are here for an item laid on the agenda, I have no issue of moving it up so they don't have to sit here through other items, but >> we just have to find out why they're here, right? Yep. So, >> good. So >> no, we can ask from now on. Yeah. >> Yeah. We typically structure it. If there's other staff that are presenting, we try to have them go first so they can go home for the day and then >> go in order. But if we definitely if we know somebody else is here for a specific reason, no reason why we can't move it up. >> Okay. Yeah, absolutely. If Abby, your other staff are here, so >> you two are stuck here all night. So yeah, >> we know we're stuck here. And this time it wasn't even because of me. It was Aby's fault. All right. Uh, department per purpose. >> Yeah, I think we just we've had a couple different discussions um on, you know, what are what are we wanting to address with this department. Um certainly, you know, we we won't spend hours talking about it, but just to kind of put the the mindset in, do we, you know, do we want to be um the department that, you know, is doing more of um public output of calendar of what's going on? Do we want to be more on events? Do we want to what what is what is the purpose of our our parks and and recreation? So, just looking for some feedback. just do we want to, you know, what things are we wanting to address that you guys as residents know that is maybe not here? Um, you know, staff certainly has some some feedback of what we're lacking, per se, um, within parks, but uh, we also know there's other pro programs and organizations that do things, too. So, just trying to fit in and not necessarily duplicate um things that are already happening and and what what are some of those that you guys want to address? What are some things that you think need to be addressed? >> You looking for something now or would you like? >> Yeah, just just some float some ideas around. Like I said, if we spend 5 10 minutes just kind of throwing just some ideas and if we can get the the commission to agree on a couple things, we can kind of do some diving in. >> One of the things that I've noticed over the holiday season, you know, uh the toy collection and the food donations and things like that, I didn't really find a place where it was all kind of outlined. here's where you can donate toys. You know, all the locations in one spot. You'd see a sign in one doorway, you'd see a sign in another one or something in the paper, whatever. But I kind of wondered, would part of our effort be to uh consolidate that information for people so they can go to one spot and see where all that where all they can go during that time of year. and uh >> or for any event for >> for any for anything even some of the other events that are even put on by the chamber where they can where we can just be that point of contact even though it's not maybe a parks event. >> It's somebody else's event >> in our park or >> a place submit submit what's going on. Yeah, >> that could be out there and that and on that um kind of reading through this and thinking about it in our discussion about, you know, a spring fling last um month and I I like what you said and I went, you know, I kind of went home with that information and thought let people be um spearhead these things and let them do what they do well, right? you know, so spring fling, you know, Chelsea's kind of got that started or ECF or any of the places that they specialize in that, but I would love for us to be a avenue for them to be able to you could submit the information here and somewhere for the community to go click on it and be like, what are the community's activities? Not necessarily that you're putting on or the city's putting on, but that are kind of going on the happenings type of thing. there was a way and I know then that's links and it's a website and all of that, but if there was a >> a city calendar that people could just submit in maybe it's an email place and it could just get plugged into the calendar. So something like that like toy drives going on >> the different locations maybe that they are or something like that. >> I like the idea. It's communication is always the most important to me to have it any as many places as we can >> and uh use everybody's information. Now, the chamber does a great job with that. If they're chamber member, they put out the blast. >> Um and they have the community happenings in the paper. So, dealing with this community for so long, I know the hardest thing to do is where do they look for the information? >> Well, you put it in a number of places and hope. But one of the things that I hear, two of the things, one's taken care of, disc golf, this commission a long time ago was going to use one of the parks for that now over by um the district office by Target and all that. >> It'll education center. >> So, I think that takes care of that. The other thing that I promised my little neighbor boy and and we really are short of is somewhere for the bikers to go. um they've ruined a couple areas. We had an area for him and then the drugs came in and people weren't around to watch it and that was didn't work. But this little guy said he would not do drugs if we could just find him a place to go and ride his bike. So, and I do think that's one thing that we're lacking. You know, we've got a lot of things, but if we could just find some piece of land, doesn't have to be expensive or big or >> a part of a park somewhere where they're cuz yes, they did have a skate bike park, but it was >> was misused. >> Yeah. Well, when you put it in a corner where nobody can see them, what do you expect? If you put it out in the open where there's lots of people, then there's less chance of it happening. So, so one is >> so what I'm gathering from just kind of the conversation is really just kind of being a hub of information. >> So, not necessarily going out and trying to reinvent the wheel with running events or putting on >> it's just being a a hub of here's what's going on in our community. >> Yeah, absolutely. And I like that you've went out and met with so many different organizations and are kind of trying to keep your, you know, finger on the pulse of all that. I think that that's what this community is all about. If we we know about each other and we can all help each other's and we did branch out with this the city center having the garden or the farmers market. I think things like that if they come up that we can look out for because I think that's going to be a powerful one for the community. So, not branching out looking for things that maybe haven't been announced, but if if we hear something, maybe it'll work, maybe it won't work, but we could bring them forward. >> The hometown holiday. >> Yeah, I think uh I think obviously we'd have to talk to make sure that we can have a community site to what the rules are, who we who's we can post and who we can't or how that all goes. But >> right, >> I think just by if everything was in a perfect world and everybody used that to post with their events, you'd probably be able to start seeing where the openings are where there's not stuff going on. It's like >> is there nothing going on every single Wednesday night all summer long or I mean which then >> other communities or not other groups may say, "Okay, let's let's start doing an event on this night or whatever." I mean, the goal would be to fill up seven days a week there's something going on in the city. >> That'd be great. you know, you you go up to Hayward a bunch in the summertime and you click on their community calendar and there's 10 different things going on every single day, seven days a week, you know, >> but you find it on one calendar and that's where you find it. So, I mean, I think it's a great idea where to everyone's point too, we don't have to start doing everything if we all start promoting what everything is going on. You all of a sudden realize there's a lot of stuff that is going on. >> We got to figure out how Hayward's doing that and have some connections. Yeah, I don't I don't think it's the chamber site because I it's might be just on the city site, too. But I just have to I think we'd have to make sure just with the administrator here in legal that there's no something wrong that we're doing by letting people link in or how exactly that calendar would work. But I don't think there's an issue, but I don't think we can promise it without making sure that we can't be that hub for that calendar. But to your point with Cal being a connection with all these people, I don't think it would all these groups and organizations an email saying, "Hey, every time you have an event, just send me an email. We'll get it up on this calendar, you know, or link your calendar into ours and we can I'm sure whether it's a Google calendar, >> Google form or something like that where it has all the details right in." Y >> but I'm also hearing that we don't want to start chasing events. I mean, the farmers market's a great thing. maybe one-offs here and there, but we shouldn't at this point be seeing how many events the city themselves should be trying to support other than arts in a park and this farmers market and the ones that we're doing currently. >> Do less better? >> Yeah. >> What else? Anything else that the identity should be for this parks and rec commission slash department for the city? I assume the city has a mission statement, right? >> We don't at this point. We working through a strategic plan and and all that with council and then we kind of hit a bump in the road here a month or so ago and that kind of got put on hold, but >> okay. >> I know working through it, there was a lot of mentioning of parks and recreation and trails and amenities and community involvement and all that. We just had we got to that point. Yeah, this is a this is a big complex topic to you say parks and recreation. If it's just parks, it's easy. We just have to maintain the parks. It's when you throw in the recreation pieces, what does that mean? Right. I'm wondering if you know, Kyle, you've got contacts on the rest of Twin Cities. If there's other suburbs with park and recck departments like you see in your memo, not to recreate the wheel, get some ideas from them. What's I don't know what the right balance is of >> how many recreational things do you get into >> versus focusing on maintaining the parks. >> It really does. >> It's got to be a balance. >> It it changes city to city sometimes. There's and it it seems to be what's what was established first. So you have some cities that everything's ran through park parks and wreck whether it's the youth programming, adult programming, but we have an organization with community ed that does all that. So obviously we don't want to start our own youth leagues or you know but there's I know we're lacking like adult leagues, adult sports leagues and stuff like that. So it's who tackles that but that's something that through doing something like a community calendar definitely like Dave's point sifts out like oh we see we have all these things going on but we don't have that. Then that's maybe an opportunity for us to dive in and say do we want to do that? Do we want to find somebody to do that? Or maybe somebody else just picks up on that. Um, so it's certainly as kind of what the commission's thinking with kind of being that community hub would probably be the first step in figuring out what are we what are we missing or is that happening? We just don't know about it very well because it's not being put out there. >> And one the pickle ball he can tell you how popular pickle ball is and that's certainly for the adult population. I think you've hear all along and I don't know what it is that we can do for them but the teens you know the 17 16 to 22 or whatever it we don't have any really events parks that maybe the go this golf will take care of that from the school but I don't know that you you hear that all the time but I don't have an answer for what it is we could do they were going to have the the line across belts and they had a couple of ideas for belts that more teenagers would be able to use. But >> I'm sure >> maybe maybe Commissioner Tyson hit the nail on the head. Maybe that this commission wants to have their own create their own mission statement and then you know work back from that. Correct. I mean I know the EDA has their mission statement and why why they do what they do. I mean maybe that's what this commission wants to do too is you know have an identity and why this is why we do what we do and then sometimes that's easier to make decisions on what comes forward is you know this is why we do what we do and this doesn't fall into this category we don't want to entertain this or this is right in our wheelhouse and this is something we want to latch on to promote um start doing you know >> which one ager the So, do you need to know what you want to do to make your mission statement or do you make your mission statement and decide what you're going to do? >> I think part of your mission statement is what we're asking right now, right? I think if you >> Yeah. >> reframe this as, hey, we're going to start trying to find our mission statement, we'd be having this conversation, the same conversation to start it off of, you know, but maybe to make it more of a formalized be able to step back and and start that process. And maybe it's just touching on it every workshop or commission meeting for the next, you know, few months just to kind of work on it. You spend time on it every time and and come up with a it's a thought. >> Well, we got a good start because one of the things I heard all over you, nobody in the city cared. Nobody wanted to answer their phone. Nobody ever wanted, you know, whatever. And you get pretty tired of sending people to the city if somebody there isn't going to respond. and having Kyle and even yourself, but mostly Kyle that he'll answer his phone. He's out in the public. He's at Arts in the in the park, you know, that that's big because people get a chance to ask their questions and get them answered with I appreciate that. I do think it's a really good idea to have that um shared calendar. And I'm just going to go out of the box a little bit too where I don't know how many people in the city know that if you live in the city of Horse Lake, you can have you can go up to the Y six times a year without having to pay a fee. >> Yeah. >> Nobody knows that, you know, unless you go there and you get your membership and whatever. I'm a donator, monthly donator. I don't utilize it, but I donate. >> Um, >> then I should go. >> You should go on my behalf. I'll add >> I'll add you and I'll take me off. you could go. Um, but again, it's one of those things where, you know, you wouldn't know that to go utilize the splash pad in the summer unless my kids' friends come over and say, "Hey, you guys can go for this time." Um, I can tell you at least five times last summer that we went up to play pickle ball and there's no schedule. There's no way of knowing what's going on, you know, and there's groups of individuals that do their own thing, which is cool. I don't need to be in there when they're doing their thing because I can't play with them. But to be able to know, we can look online and see it's open pickle ball, right? Or we have this league going on. Um I think it would be helpful for a lot of people. I mean, even myself when we again, I'm going to date my, you know, go back nine years, but back then when my kids were small, I didn't know where to sign them up for sports, you know, not until I was in daycare and asking questions to people that lived here. Where do I do T-ball, you know, and it was different to me that associations weren't connected with the community at. It's all completely separate and you got to navigate all those avenues. And so with community ad being separate from parks and wreck where I came from previously, it gives it a little bit of a different dynamic that's not in our control, which is fine. That's great. But then I also think we need to be able to put it all together for everybody directory and stuff. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that's that's good. That's helpful for sure. It gives us a good starting point. >> Okay. >> Start diving in some ideas. Yeah. Thank you for that. >> All right. Last item, discussion of arts in the park. >> Yeah. So, just another another discussion. We're coming into the season. Obviously, planning is well underway. We're got vendors coming in. We're going to have some music contracts coming for next month. Um, and just kind of want to get an idea of, you know, maybe who the commission would like to um, extend invites out to to to join weekly and then obviously discuss with the commission too on the on the weekly calendar. I just threw something together last year. Um, just a weekly sign up. Just want to check in if that works for everybody to do that again. And then do we want it to just be one commission? Do we want to, you know, have council also included on that signup to have a commission and council? Do we feel like that's too much or kind of what what do you what does the commission want to want to see with uh sign up how to do it and then who to invite? >> I love the idea of having both the council and the comm and the parks commission there. I think people want to talk to all of us. So I promise >> you got heads nodding on that one Kyle. >> Yeah. >> Sign them up. I love being there. you know, I'll be there every week cuz I think it's the best thing in town to do. And so, it's not a hard one to volunteer for and if you get enough of those little things about, you know, to pass out >> all the the goodies. >> Yeah. I mean, you can buy all the goodies you want. I just want the piece of paper that I can pass out because then you go around, you talk to other people and you ask about the music and it's really fun, but if you don't have a piece of paper in your hand to give them, it's like, why am I approaching you? So, it doesn't cost I'll donate the the money to make those little papers. >> Don't put that in the minutes. One >> of the minutes. She She said it on record. >> Karen will donate. >> It's just a really good way to get to know your community and they want to talk, too. They They And the music, I mean, they'll tell you, "Oh, no, not tonight, you know, or this is great. Bring them back." And they have a lot of good things to say. Good. So, yeah, just the simple signup sheet weekly, email it out to you guys, and then obviously invite the council as well to try to get that you guys. That's that's a good plan. >> Yep. Mhm. Good. >> And if we could know what the music was on the days we're signing up, that's >> that schedule will probably come out before the sign up, so you'll be safe. >> Is there a bike Is there a sign up at the uh Belts Park for bikes? Oh, >> remember we were going to do that bike rack or to keep off the park. >> Well, I thought it was I thought it was sign and then I see up. So, I was thinking I'm not I'm talking about signs now. See the up is on the next level. So, all right. I'll use it in my report. >> Good. So, on the arts in the park too, Kyle, you can maybe talk to Abby. That could be an event if we're going to survey the public on things happening in the park there. >> You got idea. >> So, visual board >> QR code for that one. >> Yeah. >> To the survey. >> Boy, oh boy. >> And when you go around getting people the music list, you can ask them if they'd like to have a better band show. >> Yeah. Oh, no. Well, I could ask. I thought you could ask me if you want to use the QR code. >> All right. All right. So, I think we've got uh staff reports if we have any staff updates. >> Yeah, a couple updates. We had the memorial pavers for the vet memorial site. I know the the commission I mean kind of has been updated a little bit along the way, but we had our best selling season for pavers. I think we were up to like 67 or 68 and typically the orders were 8 to 12. So that's obviously a huge positive response to that project taking place down there. So that was encouraging to see. So um that was good. Um the the sculpture for that I think I got an image just just today that's getting going. So the clay sculpture for all that it's kind of moving along. So um I know I'm I know you probably have a couple things to know. Those that was kind of the the couple things that I had noted. >> Okay, Dave, you're good. >> Yep, I'm good. >> All right. Uh, commissioner updates. We'll start. Nikki, any update? >> No update. >> Karen, >> I have an update. I would like to know about the uh bike sign at Belts because I made a a handmade one last year and I really would hope not to have to do that again, although it did look pretty darn nice. But I we were going to talk about that and I don't want to talk about it in September because those bikes could really ruin that pave that ground >> and if there's no way of telling them to stay off of it. >> I think we we ordered the bike rack and all that stuff in the fall. So we we just didn't put any signage up. We don't put signs up in the winter time. So we can discuss location and all that staffwise. It's it's on the list. We just haven't >> Okay. Just >> the rack and everything came in in like November, I believe. And so we haven't just got to then. So we putting up a reader board too to to be able to put community news in there like to that point about the pick mile. So you know the goal is to try to get a reader board at every single park we have that'll have like the arts in the park uh promotions and then other stuff that's going on and then reservations and all that stuff. So we're slowly kind of every time we redo a park we'll make sure we get one in but then try to backfill the other ones too as well. So, Bay View will get a reader board in it when that gets put in this summer, too. So, >> a bunch of QR codes that that's all it's going to be. >> I don't care. >> Check out Arts in the Park. Here's a QR code that you're going to know that this commissioner did not want that. I mean, that's got to be a simple thing for Rapid Press to make no bikes allowed on this. >> We're just going to put a sign up with a QR code and then they have to take a picture of it. Just say no bikes allowed. It'll >> just pop up. Fine. No, we but seriously though, yes, we are going to we'll either I think we just like at Lakeside, they have like the stencils too that have the no bike on it and >> we don't want to drive too many sign posts everywhere either. So just some I mean obviously even if there's a sign people are still going to do what they do, but at least letting them know that, you know, and maybe the signage to say something that don't wreck. >> Well, and when I'm up there, I I don't have to just tell them it because I'm I'm an old crabby lady. I can say, "Do you see the sign? I'm sorry. Sorry, we can't have bikes here. But if you, you know, otherwise it's just >> it's just a help. >> Okay. Sue, >> I have nothing. >> Tim, >> no. >> Melissa, >> and I just had that uh the Forest Lake area good Samaritans are doing their citywide cleanup on Saturday, April 25th for Earth Day. So, you know, um I'm sure Mike usually contacts the city about having the truck out there for us to put the garbage bags in because hopefully we can collect over a hundred as we have in the past. Um the time is precocious right now. 9 to noon. Let's go with that. It's either 9 to 11 or 10 to noon, but and there should be a lot of people out in the city cleaning up. And if you guys have any ideas of where some dirty spots are where we could, you know, be the cleanest city by having the most garbage. I don't It's kind of backwards, but let us know. >> Sounds good. Thanks, Melissa. All right, we have a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> Tim moved. >> I'll second. >> Sue seconds. All in favor? I >> All right. Thanks everyone.