All [Music] right. With it just being a minute after 6 here, we'll call the meeting to order and Mark I'll take ro tonight. >> Council member Miller >> here. >> Council member Valento >> here. >> Mayor Roberts >> here. >> Council member Ericson >> here. >> Council member Larson >> here. >> Great. If you're able, please stand for the pledge of >> allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Right. Um, I am going to make a motion to approve tonight's agenda. Just removing the discussion item number nine. >> A second. >> Motion to second. Any further discussion? >> All in favor? >> I opposed. We have an agenda. >> Right. Awards and presentations. Uh, number five, we have uh Washington County Attorney Kevin Magnuson here to come uh speak to the council. Welcome. Yeah. So, let me get my presentation slide on here. This is all right. Try this again. Here we go. Well, good afternoon and uh good evening, I guess. And thank you so much for having me. Uh my name is Kevin Magnuson. I'm the county attorney in Washington County. And I just wanted I don't really have an agenda. I have some slides that I use to just kind of talk a little bit about the office and um give you a little overview of what's going on with us. Maybe some of the crime trends and other trends that we're seeing and then have some time to chat. So um it's kind of your time. If there's anything that you want to talk about, feel free to stop me and tell me that that's really boring and you'd rather talk about your agenda. Um but um so I grew up in Lake Elmo. Uh I'm living in the house that I grew up in. 1898. >> My father sold it to me as is. This stuff's still there. Um uh it's uh it's held together by spackle and wallpaper essentially. And it's a major project. And I know my wife who uh um when when she's having a bad day and there's a real estate agent in the driveway, I know something's up, right? Um I have two kids, a 13-year-old and a 5-year-old. And uh yeah, we're going going to school in in Woodbury and Lake Elmo and and really enjoying this community. I I worked in Minneapolis for 20 years in complex business litigation. Um, so this was a big change and my predecessor Pete Orpit, you know Pete, because for those of you who don't, I think I really feel bad for you because he's an amazing human being. I miss him every day. Uh, he talked me into joining the office to help out some things and he talked me into running uh when he retired. And the office that Pete built was a great office. Um and I think uh you know it's changed a lot which is fascinating to me or just amazing that you know in three years so much three and a half years so much changes. Um but it really does but the core of the office and the and the mission and the approach to practicing law and serving the community is exactly the same and I think we've embodied Pete's values as we move forward. Um there is now 61 and a half people, not a small person, but a half-time person um in the in the office and that's um about half and half staff and and attorneys. So we're we're at a point where we're we're not big that we need to rely on a lot of systems, you know, like maybe some of the other u bigger counties, bigger county attorney's office. Um but you know there's a lot of really interesting cases and and um you know challenging cases uh and um but we're still able to just have kind of a relationshipbased collaboration which I think is a big part of the the office culture makes it a good place to work. Um so about half of the lawyers and staff are um in the criminal division and um you know try I don't want to be glib or sound cliche but when you talk about the core values that we have the first and most fundamental value and priority that I have is public safety And that may sound like a that's obvious, but I don't think it necessarily is because I want to do everything I can to rehabilitate someone, you know, to give them the opportunity to make sure that the right size hammer fits the right size nail so we're not overcharging or over punishing people. But at the same time, I don't feel that the community should have to bear the risk when someone is released and there's real danger and you know, and the idea is, well, we want to give, you know, the defendant the second chance. Well, the question I'm asking myself is, can we do that? And to what degree of risk are we putting onto the community? And I and I take that balance very seriously. Um, and I just don't think it's fair for someone to go about their business to have to um, you know, endure the possibilities of um, you know, of violence or crime. Um, so, you know, we're we we strike a balance. You know, we want to do the right thing the right way all the time. And um you know that involves looking at the situation closely, every single case, every defendant, every victim, and trying to ascertain to the best we can, you know, what is justice in the situation. And it's not always clubbing the person over the head, mounting their head on a pike outside the office. That's not what we do. You know, it's not about punishing people. It's about finding that point of justice and enforcing the laws that um prescribe what we are supposed to do. Thank you so much. So, we've had, as you can see over the the years, including over COVID, you know, the number of of complaints that we've had um has stayed pretty steady. So, we're at about we get about 1,500 referrals per year law enforcement and we charge about, you know, 75% of them. So, about um you know, three/4ers or a little bit more. So about 1,200 um charged cases and the reason that they all aren't charged is that there are a number of cases that just don't pan out and they have to be dismissed. um you know the but the the process that we have um you know whether we like it or not it's just the process and I think it works pretty well actually is you know most of the time in the 90% these cases um result in a plea agreement and that typically is because someone with counsel typically realizes that they they're kind of at the end of the road and when you charge these things you're thinking about okay what is the right result here. And and that isn't always the maximum amount of years you could possibly get for a person. Sometimes it is a significant amount of incarceration, you know, but it doesn't have to be the maximum that's allowed to accomplish the goal. And so I don't think of a plea agreement as selling out or, you know, fire sale or anything like that, not wanting to try the case. I mean, I can tell you my lawyers would rather try a case than plead it out because trials are fun for lawyers, believe it or not. Uh maybe not for you guys if you're, you know, get called to testify in one, but um but but you know, we like doing that. That's why we're prosecutors and not at some big law firm in Minneapolis like I was for 20 years doing antitrust and securities fraud. So, um, but also I think the success that we've had that's a pretty relatively high charging rate is because of in particular the relationship that Dan Star and I have and that's similar you know I think that was kind of bequeath to me because you know Sheriff Hutton and Pete Orpin had a close relationship and then Sheriff Star and Pete had a really close relationship and and Sheriff um Star and I have maintained that you know essentially he's been essential to me getting my feet on the ground in this in this Now, I also work really well with some of the police chiefs, and I have to tell you, you've got one of the best around in Chief Peterson. You know, early on, we had some issues. Um, you know, from our side of some things that were, you know, potential hurdles and the way Forest Lake handled that was so professional and so ethical. Um, it was just sort of a the, you know, the shining example of how things should be done. So I commend you and chief on on just the way this department is run and the quality of the force that we see here. So talk a little bit about crime trends. Um and I won't belabor this because you know there's a there's a lot of data that we could get into but I thought this is interesting because you know you'll see in in in the main co years in in 2020 and 2021 there was a real spike in in autotheft related. So that's receiving stolen property as well, you know, an automobile. Um that we didn't we charged essentially the same punishment or the same type of crime as um as a theft case, but it's a stolen property case because you can't determine who actually stole it or not. Multiple people in the car, but the end result ends up being the same. But you know, when you're looking at um you know, 2018 there was a higher number, but that was a bit of an anomaly. you know, when you're at at 55 and then you jump to 79 and then you jump to 93 and then you see it's starting to come down. Um, and you know, 47 I think is we're doing better. It's not good enough. You know, I mean, that's still a lot of car thefts and as far as I'm concerned, but you know, I'm proud to say that we're moving in the right direction with criminal sexual conduct. That's another one that a lot of people are tracking. you know, there isn't really it wasn't really a COVID based bump there. You see, um, you know, 50 in 2021, um, 43, they're both high higher than than for the most part. Um, but those those, um, cases tend to involve a lot of different considerations on whether they get charged or not. And, you know, the least of of them is what how how good of evidence is your do you have? I mean, do you have a a victim who can testify? I mean, it takes a lot of bravery to go through sometimes two years after the incident and have to relive it multiple times where you're preparing for trial and then, you know, going into it. So, I really understand how difficult it is and it's also difficult for us to prove a case when, you know, we don't have a victim. Like I said, auto theft was up, but for a while and then and then going down. But, you know, in a different to um motor vehicle theft, we've got joy riding. And here you see um what what it looks like when the car has been stolen as part of the Kia challenge. And there there's a space in the in the ignition where you can insert something about the equivalent of a of a USB drive which completes the electric circuit which allowed the car to be started. Um those were an older model Kia and Hyundai's. Um they uh I think that there's been safety measures taken and I don't think that's a problem. Of course we have a Hyundai and I'm always afraid that some kid doesn't know that they're going to break a window and try to steal it. Hasn't happened yet though. Um but so joy riding is really considered the the unauthorized use of a motor vehicle and that and that's a crime but you know we also will charge that as receiving stolen property. Um and it has the same penalties of theft. But I want to tell you that um in Woodbury they've been using the flock cameras and I know that that's been somewhat controversial. I have I tell you they work. They really work. You may recall there was a um a guy who stole a wallet out of a construction site and the flot cameras detected him driving by in the Target Home Depot area in Woodbury and they found the car parked in the Target parking lot and then he came out. He had what what everybody thought was a gun and it really was a high velocity pellet gun and ended up getting in a shootout with officers and was shot several times and and survived. Um but you know he testified later or stated later in his um sentencing hearing that it was suicide by cop. So that gives you a flavor of not only how block cameras work but just how difficult life can be as a as a law enforcement officer. The issue with flaw cameras, I'll just tell you that um you know there's a lot of private entities want to get a camera like that, a license plate reader, and then they want to hook it up to like a city law enforcement or county law enforcement. And um you know, you start to get into problems with with the data that you're retired to keep as a part of, you know, statutory requirements um that they have control over the data and you don't, but those laws then apply to your use of that data. So that's just something it's not something you can't overcome. It's just something I caution you about. So this is the thing that to me is um you know one of the most unsettling, sad, difficult trends that we've seen and you could see in again during the co time that the rise in fleeing in a motor vehicle from officers just skyrocketed. You can go from 35 in 2018 to 111 in 2022. We're down to 75, but we're I mean that is just crazy too high. And I'll tell you that it's dangerous for everybody. We've made a lot of progress as a as as a community and law enforcement and then in the way we charge some of these things to do everything we can to disincentivize people tearing through a neighborhood. you know, if if someone heads into a neighborhood, law enforcement tends, they they drop back and they just wait sadly for the smoke because there's g typically an accident someplace down the line. And, you know, they they can find the guy. They're doing everything they can while being, you know, um um focused on on recovering the vehicle, apprehending the the suspect if if if they can, but not to the risk of the community. And a Force Lakes done a really good job of that. I think Washington County has been sensitive to that too and done a really good job. Um, so I'm gonna run this. It's dangerous for officers. That's the bottom line, you know, and it's it's dangerous for everybody, but the officers in particular when they're that close to a vehicle and uh, you know, and and uh, it starts moving. We've had officers dragged, you know, when someone shuts a door with their hand in, you know, um that kind of thing happens. It's just not acceptable. It I think it is one of the most disturbing trends and you wonder what's going on in society where there's that kind of skyrocket and then it doesn't really settle down. You know, it's not like the noble covid bump. Something happened during that period that's with us today. And I think it has a lot to do with just I think there's just a the boiling temperature in our society. I think it's just a lot lower than it used to be. I mean, you see, I hear about this, for example, you know, young uh men and women who are incarcerated, they get in there and they'll start throwing down over things that nobody would have before, knowing that there's going to be a consequence and just not even getting to that thought in their head. Um, and that I think we're seeing a lot of that being played out in other aspects of society, but the most troubling area I think is is um the the tendency to flee. Let's see. Hang on a second. I did that. All right. Um, so juvenile crime is is another area that's just been stubborn. Um, and it it became a real problem during COVID because I'm not getting into the the politics behind it. But when you close a school and there's no structure or supervision, no role models or very little through no fault of sometimes, you know, a single parent now stuck in the situation. So you got a kid with a $700 iPhone running around with nothing to do with but you know then they're they're tapping into what's going on in LA and they're looking at the crime trends and you started to see a lot of this kind of copycat crime trends happening um you know and it is um it is a um it's a stubborn problem. I think part of it comes with what we do after some of these kids have been apprehended. Um but uh the reason I'm talking about kids now is it's our our sex trafficking has been task force has been really stellar and the advantage of having it um be a community a local law enforcement and and and prosecutor project is it is in fact here on the ground. I mean the BCA does a great job. You affiliate with the BCA, you're going to be in Minneapolis and St. Paul um and maybe in the in in Washington County um following up on something. But we have, you know, a pretty strong presence on the ground which affects massage parlors. I know there's been a lot of work on ordinances and that sort of thing. And they pop up, you close one down, they pop up, they close one down, they pop up. And um and and having that kind of presence is really important. But it's not just a vice squad. You know, this is not about vice. This is about victims and the people who are victimizing you. This is absolutely traumatizing and u it's a life that when you're in it, when you're addicted to drugs, when someone has got that kind of physical, mental, chemical power over you, I mean, it's just incredibly difficult to leave that life. And a lot of what we do are um we do sting operations, but we do recovery operations. But I'll talk a little bit about those. But I one of the things that I that I want want to talk about and the reason I was talking about juveniles is we have added a a very strong focus on runaway children. We have the investigatory ability, the technology, the expertise to find those kids faster than I think most other um you know law enforcement communities. and that and we've been using that um you know as much as we can to get involved early and I think when officers know that we have that ability they um you know they call and and and we can respond. So you know there's a case in in 2024 where there was a grandmother of a 14-year-old girl from Cottage Grove who reported her daughter missing. Um, so the officers learned that she was communicating um over a you hear a lot about Snapchat. There's so many different messaging apps these kids. This was called Text Now. Um and um and they were able to get location information from that app by subpoening that information. Um and they determined she was likely at Boyd's Motel in Newport. So there when they got there, the officers found the girl in the motel dressed in lingerie alone, having been assaulted for, you know, um, several days, frankly. Um, but they were able to intervene and work in that girl's life, but the first step was they were able to use the phone to lure the uh, the suspect back and make the arrest. And then you have his phone, her phone, that just opens everything. And then that's when you start getting evidence that is really helpful in looking at the broader trafficking situation. Um, you know, and the work that goes in through social services and charities and other groups to then try to meet that girl's needs to repair and try to help her then move forward with her life again is daunting. So, the sting operations. Sorry, I had to blur these because I was at a actually giving a presentation and someone came up and said it's my ex-husband in there and I didn't I never occurred to me that that actually might happen. She said she wasn't surprised and you know he was there but um still uh but these are you know individuals um that um um you know were u charged and convicted in Washington County. That's mostly just to show, you know, that that we're we're doing these things. And and typically what you do is you have a a sting with a mark who poses as a um sex purveyor and then you lure the John in and, you know, make the arrest. And part of it is is that we always use someone who's underage, at least the dialogue, not the not the mark, but the dialogue. Um so they know that they're buying someone who's 15 or 16, that they're buying services from that person. Um, and so not only are they um involved in trafficking, I mean they're involved in trafficking of the juvenile and I think that's where a lot of our focus needs to be. Now this is a this these are several pictures and this is the same woman which I have to point out because it's that the the effect is so stark. This is not from Washington County. This is actually from a national publication and it is some you know several years old but it's the real deal and I think and there are many other of these kind of um uh displays um out there in in in the published uh works of of um the the specialists. Um, but you know the this is an area when people ask me what can I do to help when you look at in the sex trafficking side of things it is that that next step that and there's a new place that's opening in Oakdale I think it's great it's called Corey's House was a charity they bu they bought a really really nice house in Oakdale they were looking for in Woodbury they couldn't afford it so they went to Oakdale but it's a great house and it's in the middle of you know Warden and June Cleaver neighborhood just looks like any other upper middle class, beautiful home and that will be for juvenile victims of sex trafficking. Um, and it's, you know, they're doing the final uh bits of licensing and things before they open. Um, and but the we're going to need a lot more of that kind of stuff because you can't take a person from this life and then send them to just a shelter and give them a burner phone and expect them to be able to put their life back together. You just really can't. There's it has to be pretty significant intervention. So, I talked um some about the juvenile prosecution and the challenge that we face. But what's interesting is, you know, kids do some stupid things. You know, I mean, kids and criminals have a lot in common just in general. I'm finding out from my 5-year-old, you know, he's a little a little criminal half the time, but um you know, the executive functioning isn't always working great. And a lot of times kids um you know they aren't a criminal but they do something that happens to be um a violation of laws and that offense is something that has to be addressed. You can never just say oh well Junior that's you know better this I mean even if it's just having an officer stop a person recognizing that there is a law here that um that you know we live in a nation of laws um and is then moving that kid along that you know does a ton of good. So the vast majority of cases that we see are minor cases. So with all the you know the the discussion and the concern about the spike in juvenile crime just want you to know that the vast vast majority of what we see are cases that are minor. They go through diversion. They complete it. We never see them again. Now there I would say there about 10 cases a year that are in that real serious category. Um, and they take up a ton of time because they usually have a criminal history a mile long and there's multiple cases going and there, you know, but but even though we spent a lot of time doing it and that gets a lot of news, that is not where where our kids are in Washington County. So you can see here again in mobile vehicles I'm not going to belabor this but again um it parallels the uh what you saw with the adult statistics that there was a huge spike and you know it's it's dropping. So this is a following a pursuit. The uh the suspect um has a a gun in his right hand. So that is a uh the car that he stole and uh crashed and well there's an officer in pursuit and be honest I don't actually remember what law enforcement that was so >> it almost looks like Woodbury >> very well be um so we've had you know designated juvenile prosecutors particular on the vehicle theft and pro and and carjacking when it was at 33 partly because you know we needed to have a lot of attention there. But we also wanted to make sure we understood the um you know the crime that was being committed, how that case played out, what the forces and reasons were behind it. And um and having a dedicated prosecutor allows you to get someone who can build that that knowledge base, which really is important to figure out, well, what can we do as a community to try to address these things? I'm proud to say that that you know the the carjacking crime actually didn't become a specific crime until 2023 and we have yet to charge a person under the 2023 carjacking statute. So, but that's I think that's a good a good sign. So, civil division, you know, they they always kind of go at the end and they're kind of the junk drawer and I get it. I mean, that's where everything is and I you know, I was in the civil division when I first started. Um, and so my heart's with the, you know, the civil division guys, but they do everything, absolutely everything. Um, and a lot of things that we really care about in the community. Um, they're protecting and serving and helping um, you know, uh, just address the the general welfare of our community. In addition, you know, all the contracts that the county is into are reviewed by our office and that is a very important role. Um you'd be surprised what you find in some of these contracts. Everybody seems to want liquid dated damages. But um you know the other thing is that this these lawyers um and myself we're we're advising the county leadership all the department heads, individuals within the department so that they're getting legal advice as they go forward. We provide that same role with law enforcement um and we're providing it with um with uh the managers and and leaders in Washington County. On the law enforcement side, I will just point out that u we especially since I've been the county attorney, I I know Pete did too, but I've really emphasized the the need to have law enforcement training that's that is free of charge. That's our mission is to go out and provide training for law enforcement. Now, there's a lot of training that they're that they get through um training that's at the law enforcement level, but we do as much as we can inservice training. So, we'll come out and do the training um on whatever topic anybody wants. Uh but I also started a program. It's a two-year program that's kind of like a junior college where there's two years worth of courses. There's some core courses and some elective courses and when you complete it, you get a certificate. Now, I don't know, I mean, what people are doing with the certificate, but people are completing the course and they are smiling when they get it. So, I think it's I think it's been a service that's been great. Um, I just want to end by saying that, you know, I think the thing that distinguishes Washington County's this office, the county attorney's office, but I say you also see it in in in law enforcement here. Um, you see it in in Chief Peterson and in some other law enforcement um leaders in the community. You're seeing it in the people that are doing the, you know, providing the community services, the outreach. There's a tremendous amount of love and caring that that just kind of imbuss the whole process. There's a lot of people caring about other people and I, you know, you see that in this job every day. When Pete was trying to talk me into taking it, he said, "Look, the hardest thing you'll do." So, my wife was trying to figure out why should be why being widowed for seven months with an infant was a good idea during the election process. And, you know, Pete said, "Look, this is one of the positions, the best positions if you want to do good in society. this. I mean, being in the county attorney, staff, attorneys, law enforcement, public service in general, I think you can accomplish a tremendous amount of good. So, happy to take any questions. >> Great. Thanks. Thanks for that. Any any questions? Council of Attorney Magnus. I I just want to say on behalf of the city, we appreciate the partnership that you have with our PD and um you know, if there's anything that we can do more to support that relationship, we're more than uh willing to to be involved in that. And just thank you for coming up this evening and and taking the time to speak. feels like we're we're far away geographically and I don't get up here as much as I would like, but I I I'd like to spend more time up here. And um now that we've had this chance to meet, hopefully they'll be, you know, just easy, good communication. Anytime anybody needs things to pick up the phone, call me call me in my office. >> Yeah. >> And we do have the flock system that's going to be online here hopefully by the end of the year. So, >> yeah, we're excited to see that that come in. Thank you very much. >> Great. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Next item, uh, open forum. This is an opportunity to for anyone to speak, uh, any city matter. Uh, if you would come give your name and address and limit it to about 3 minutes. Anyone interested in speaking this evening? I am Jesse Wagner, 956th Avenue Southeast Force Lake, Minnesota 55025. Um, I just had to mention something on the speed bumps they were looking at putting in. As an owner of a lowprofile vehicle, they're not very friendly. So, I know I have about 4 and 12 inches of ground clearance. So, if we could put in smaller speed bumps would be nice. And then I also would like to thank everybody that's been stopping by at Arts in the Park. It's nice to see all of you there and great event for the community. I think >> that's all I have. Thanks. >> Thanks, Jess. Appreciate it. >> Anyone else like to speak this evening? >> Um, I did have a Kia back in the day. It wasn't stolen, but I decided to sell it because I couldn't get it insured. >> It's horrible. So, I have a new ride now. Uh, my name is Tara Steen Black and I'm new to Forest Lake and I just wanted to come and meet you all. Um, I have an application for a massage therapy license that's up for discussion tonight. Um, and I just wanted to spend a moment and say, um, that I'm excited to be in this community. I've been a m massage practitioner for over 20 years. I come from Canon Falls, the Northfield area, and I've been licensed there uh, since 2009. and um I run a very um respectable practice and I have a lot of experience in many different areas that I'm excited to bring to this community that are different um from some of the other practitioners that are here. >> Great. Well, welcome to Forest Lake and good luck in your new >> Thank you so much. >> All right, we have one other um my name is Linda Madson. I live at 25 Lake Street North, unit 306 in Forest Lake. Um you probably didn't know that speed bumps were going to be talked about um twice this evening. Um so I am here and first of all I want to thank um Date Adams for the work that he's done in listening to our concerns and and figuring this out and to the council. Um we came to a um a work session and explained it and what we've been um concerned about. So, um, thank you for that. And, um, Dave sent the, um, the map of where they would be. And, um, probably if you took a vote of the association and the people that work and live there, um, they would maybe say like 8 to 12 would be good. Um, but, um, on the map there's two. And we are requesting that there be four. Um, there's the road that's in front of the building, parkplace building, and then there's the road that is between the parking lot and then the park and to the lake into the beach. And if there aren't speed bumps there, well, they're not going to come by the road by the by the building. They're just going to go over there like they currently do. And they tend to go faster there because, as you know, you can park, you know, straight at the building. Um, so people tend to go maybe a little bit slower there. Um, and again I'm talking about people that um, you know, you just start driving and you get going too fast. But then I'm also talking about people that come there to drive fast. And so we would just um ask you ask you to consider putting in four rather than two. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Anyone else like to speak this evening? Right. that will uh looking for approval of tonight's cons consent agenda. >> Mr. Mayor, >> yes. >> Did you want to remove the one item from the consent agenda before? >> Uh yes. Yeah. >> Yeah. I make a motion to approve the consent agenda. Um A through O and then the letter Q pulling P off the consent agenda. >> Second. We have a motion to second. Any further discussion? >> All in favor? I >> opposed. We have our consent agenda approved. So with that then we will go to our first item which would be um what number was that? Item P uh for regular agenda item and Dave I think you're going to start or no now you are I guess originally you weren't but if you want to tee it up. I know we have some individuals here from the committee that are may want to speak as well. >> Yep. Uh so the memo kind of laid out the the the low bids and and the project. Um obviously you pulled it off to have more discussion. So just looking for what you want from me or from uh the veterans group here just answering your questions. Uh more or less. Um so yeah, anything you have for us, we're more than willing to to answer. Yeah, I guess the first thing I just wanted to confirm. I mean, there's a pretty big swing in bids um difference and we took the the low bid which is pretty standard. Does this company have experience in this or are we confident that they're going to this is like downtown. We got to make sure that we get it right. Is there any concern at all by either yourself or Ryan? I know you can't speak for him, but maybe in past conversation do we feel confident that this is the right contractor? >> So, Penber company as they have worked in the city before. They did uh safe routes to school um I think the 18 and 19 project. So they did around Southshore third um through the southeast and southwest part of town. So they they did good did a good job there. Um I don't I don't have any reservations about this company. It's one we've worked with before. Binks worked before. So I I don't it's not a company that I don't know. We're not into a Northshore Trail project where we don't know the company. So, it's it's a company we work for. >> Okay. Good. You knew exactly where I was going. >> Yep. >> Uh any other questions of council from council? If not, maybe I don't know if uh any of you would be interested in speaking a little bit, maybe an update where we're at with fundraising and the process uh for the general public. >> Yes. One of the u issues. >> Maybe just state your name and address there. Ron Miller, uh, 7569 208 Street North, Horse Lake, and I happen to be the, um, American Legion chaplain and and the chairman of the Veterans Memorial Committee. Um so the one thing related to this is that agreement liability wise as to you know having the VFDW or the American Legion you know kind of being the backup plan uh to the Veterans Memorial Committee if anything happens in the future or whatever. Um yesterday we had a there was a picnic out at the the vets camp and so Bob Deetur and I another member of the committee. We talked to uh the VFW commander and then another uh VFW people person that was there um that could speak to that and they they agreed with first of all one thing is that they've done all along and the Legion has done also and that is we've we've purchased the flags for down there. Um, I I shouldn't say flag plural because I don't know about the uh the state flag, but for sure the US flag and the Legion flag and the VFW flag. We've bought those and they they're fine with that. But then I also said that, you know, you're need to be concerned uh as far as the liability and this and that and the other. It's it's a veterans memorial thing on the city land and all that. So they they they are uh they're happy to look at that and and probably go along with it. I know for sure the Legion me being on the executive board, we'll we'll do that in the Legion side. So when the um the uh lawyers go ahead and figure out what that is and you guys figure out what you think, uh you know, send it our way and and receive about. So that that was first thing on my mind. any any points on that topic before we >> Oh, just yeah, just to summarize, we're working with the veterans groups to make sure that there's some sort of agreement for ongoing maintenance and so we all understand who's in charge of what if there's graffiti or some other, you know, unfortunate need for maintenance and then make sure public works understands what their responsibilities are, veterans, their responsibility. Um, so I think we're a long ways towards that. Kyle's been working good with those folks on that. >> Yep. And that agreement is with Amanda right now. She's uh reviewing it. She just uh sent Kyle and I an email today saying that uh she has some questions. She wants to work through it. So, we wanted to try to get the agreement done at the same time we approved this project, but it's just kind of lagging behind, but it's they have some commitment here and um through legal in the city, too. So, it' just be nice to know the dollars that come in from donations, then who kind of does what long term. We want it to be a memorial for after all of us are gone to, you know, to to look nice and and and stay nice. So, we're just working through that and we'll that'll come back in probably next month or so. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. And, you know, Dave and and then Kyle and, you know, the engineers have been doing, you know, real good job uh overall. Um so the bids uh we we met last Thursday and uh we knew the the basic numbers but hadn't seen the actual bid stuff uh um today. One thing I want to point out on the bids is uh you know on page 130 uh number 28 and 29 it talks about small pavers, brick pavers and large brick pavers. Those are for the structure. Um, and the walking surfaces, whatever. That's not the Veterans Memorial pavers. Like, you know, that's that's the small size right there. The the 4 by8s, the the large size that we sell is four times bigger because it's 8 in by Whoops. 8 in high and 16 wide. So, you can really put four signs bigger. Um, so so that's uh that's on there. Other than other than that oh the other thing is the um on your your uh main sheet that isn't it the bid sheet no it's the one dated August 6th office of engineering um the one thing not on there which is a which it's a positive thing but it's not on there and that is we uh got approval when we went last um February or so. Mark Finnman and myself went to the uh state to get some more uh historical type funding and it was approved uh by the legislature and then it went over to the uh historical society and those funds will be coming. We state legislature approved 275,000. Uh the historical society they get to, you know, massage it a little bit if they want to. So whether it's that much or a little bit less or or whatever and Kyle is right on top of of working with that Kyle Young and staff. So So that's that's good. That's all good things. So the the other thing that's uh by the way that's not in the bidwise is the uh I mentioned the pavers in there. the other ones um structure- wise our you know veterans memorial papers um are not in there and there's two different uh um areas of thought to um to buy them. Okay. So, one area of thought is to go ahead and they're going to be in the semicircle. And we take all the ones that we have now already and we put those in the semicircle. And then all the other spaces, we fill them up with blanks. And then we go ahead and uh and get it engravers u to come um when we sell them each one particular as it goes. Well, that would end up u being um $17,000 uh right off the bat for the blank blank ones that we wouldn't otherwise uh pay for right now or next fall. Um and uh so the other the other piece of that is the there's the if we buy them all now the the ratio of small versus large is determined by the public at this point. Okay. So the last four years we had um which is here this one here. last four years. The small size we uh sold 16 and the large size we sold 32. So double on the on the large size. What we actually have as far as uh in the ground right now, the 380ome, the small is 197 and the large is 185. So if you take what's in the ground, yes, that it's more small. But if you take what what the trend is, the trend is the opposite of that in the last four years. And right now uh the ones that we uh sold uh with today August 11th is the uh dead one of the two deadlines during the year. And uh there's two smalls that were purchased and 15 um large ones purchased. And I think that's going to be more in the future. uh there's going to be more large. Uh so if we go ahead and buy all those blanks, uh you know, what are we going to do? We we're going to we're going to stuff it as to the public isn't going to be able to decide. Number one. Uh number two, uh if you have the it's going to look well on the positive side against my position, uh would be uh it would look prettier having all the semicircle all filled up, you know, whether it's blank ones or not. But on the negative side of that is anybody just kind of breezing on through, they'd go, "Oh yeah, I got all the papers." Somebody says, "Oh, can I buy another one?" "Well, no, they got all look at Oh, these are links and they're not they're not anybody's names. Um, so another point and uh is as far as um okay putting if we don't get all the blanks right now uh we would use a filler material to be in that that area. you know, they have all the ones that are that are purchased already there and then whether it's sand or whether this silica stuff or whatever. Now, one thing I didn't realize until Dave mentioned it tonight is the silicone that goes between them because because the pavers are obviously rectangles uh and we're doing them in a semicircle. So, there's gaps in there. There's going to be a silica that goes in there and in between the slots and all. And that uh he mentioned I thought it was you know just stays you know pliable or whatever but that hardens over time. So uh which is which is actually good in a lot of respects. But these other ones we wouldn't be able to u um if we didn't if we if we bought the blanks we would uh put it put them there and they would be locked in and it would be locked in as to how many they were. If we just fill it with sand or whatever, then we just take the sand out as we buy some or as they twice a year when we sell some more, we would just go ahead and keep filling just like we are now. We would fill it up and and and Whoops. Keep on going. And that's what I would uh prefer. Um and the I ran the numbers on the differences of that. And where did that number sheet go? Is it over there? my numbers. Come on here. The uh 17,000 would is what the cost right now for the blanks. Whereas if we if we do them later, it cost us zero. Well, anyway, >> ah, here it is. It's hidden behind this. All right. So, the um uh by the blanks now $17,870. Um Okay. And then they engraving them in place. It's going to cost 75 bucks a piece to do that to engrave them in place for the small, 150 a piece for the for the larger ones. That all comes up to be 49,800. If we do their ratio of what the engineers recommended, 254 on the uh smalls and 20 only, 205 on the large, which was wrong numbers, but anyway, that's what they figured. Um, that would end up being over the 17,000 now and the 4950,000 later, $67,670. If we do it like I would rather do, and that is pay them as they go. First of all, it cost us zero right now. Secondly, in the future, uh, they're they only cost us $400. Um, $40 all engraved. Really great price. It's been that way the whole time uh for the small and the $75 for the large. And if you do their um $254 of the smalls and two and 205 of the large, that comes up to be in the future, it would be $25,500 that we'd spend, but we don't spend any now. And the savings between the two, the 25,000 versus what it cost us with the blanks and da over time, 67,000. So, the difference in savings is $42,135 in savings and public doesn't get to choose uh when we run out of smalls or run out of larges. And um so anyway, um >> are we needing to make a decision on this in the near term? Is this part of this bid or >> Well, the the the the issue is um they're going to do all the underground uh they're going to do all the work right after Labor Day. >> Okay. And uh at first, you know, if you go back two months ago, whatever they're thinking, okay, we do all the underground work, the footings and whatever, September, October, whatever time frame, and then not until spring is when they would do the rest, you know, the above ground pieces. Uh now their plan is to do it all at once, which makes sense for the contractor. He's the contractor has got it all in, you know, and he's got his equipment there and whatever, whatever. And so it would be cheaper. That makes sense. Do it all at once. Um and that would include these these pavers. >> Okay. >> But that's a separate, it's not in a bid and whatever. It's a separate thing. So we you as council could certainly say, "No, let's hold off on that. Let's not buy the blanks. Let's wait and uh can wait and buy the blanks in May if we want to or whatever and have them all and Memorial on Memorial Day if we want it the all full. Uh why fill them up and put snow on them? >> Um but anyway, >> um questions. Does well does staff have a particular Maybe it was in the memo or maybe this wasn't even addressed in the memo. I I didn't look that, but staff have a they have a preferred way to handle this. >> The preferred way to handle is get them all installed right now and you get polytric sand in there and they're all sealed in. Um we don't want an open with sand or pearl because that's going to end up all over the park and just get thrown everywhere. So, we actually went over this with this group and they okayed this to put them in here. It's just kind of a a change. There may be a cost savings, but I've also told the group that we should just engrave these in place, get them in there, and instead of pulling them out and putting them back in where you get ripples on the, you know, you can't ever get it back in 100%. And so you get them sealed in. You know, people can come up to a blank and say, you know, we can make a grid. Uh Kyle will work on that that says, I want I want this spot or these five around here. They get reserved couple times a year. They come engraved. They come engrave them in place and they get picked out that way. Um it's just I I love his cost savings. It's a great it's it's him trying to save money and I I really appreciate that. But just for the structure and for to to not have it get kind of wonky, it's it's just better to get them all in place and then and you know, engrave them on site. If we get to that point where all the the 8 by6s are filled and we have that inner ring, you can see that on one of that they have a couple inner rings of the small ones. If if they're not getting filled, that can be part of a project, right? where you can pull them out and maybe add a whole bunch of bigger ones, but to individually pull them out or change that. Um, I mean that unfortunately this is what was approved and this is went out the bid and this is what the contractor is is planning on installing and that ratio was kind of agreed upon of we did come up at one point saying do you want as many small as you want bigger ones and this is kind of where it was agreed at. So, >> I don't want to go on a back and forth, but it it's kind of one of those um I I think this is as the contract goes to put these in place to get them sealed in and and not have these open spots and then pick and choose where ones go. It's just it's going to end up being a mess. >> So, this bid for the 562 that includes all the blanks. >> That's correct. >> Okay. >> I I I guess >> uh uh >> I don't think so. >> It does. And does it say in there as far as installing all those? >> It's all installed. >> It's it's all installed >> because there isn't there isn't anywhere in here as far as the the paying buying those blanks. 17,000 that's not in there. >> It's part of the project. It's it's in the bed. >> Not in. So >> what what hap what happens is the city ends up buying the >> the blocks, the pavers, and then >> gives them to the contractor to install instead of having the contractor buy them and then have a 10% markup and >> well inside baseball. But that's >> the the purchases, the city would buy them just like the Sentinels and the medallions. The city purchases them and then provides them to the contractor to install. >> It saves on sales tax as well. >> Correct. I so I you know not knowing all the details just just knowing what construction and that I I just think that having it in place and where it's going to stay and remain there and we're talking Dave's point this thing is going to be there much longer than we are all going to be here. Um we're talking 5 $600,000 and for $42,000 to somewhat compromise that structure I I I just don't know if it's worth as much as I do appreciate the savings. Now, one thing I and I don't know if there's room for this. I do agree with you, Ron, in that when you get the size and the scope of this thing, people are probably going to opt for that larger stone just to be more visible. >> Um, if there's some t, you know, time to decide still what sizes they are or the percentages, I I would be open to that. But I I just think to get this thing done right with the contractor and and in place forever, quote unquote, I just think that's a better play. I just I and I agree. I think five years down the line, if all the big ones are getting sold up and you have that middle ring of all the small ones and it's half filled, then that could be a project in itself, right? That you remove a whole bunch of small ones and put a bunch of big ones back in. I don't think you should. You might get a a a big flurry of people that don't want to spend a lot of money on the big ones, too, right? That just want to get their names on them. You want to have that You want to have two price points where maybe the big one's too much, but they want to, you know, buy five of the small ones. And I I don't I think it's kind of weird now because this was kind of agreed upon and then now the change is happening. So, um, I would really prefer we stuck with this. Otherwise, we're going to have to do a lot of change orders to this and and change these plans. I think if we change in the future, that's fine. But I think it'd be wise just to kind of stick with this layout. Um, because that might just cause some issues with the contractor going forward to. >> Any other thoughts? >> Mr. Miller, I see I believe that's a sample there. Or is that the small sample? >> That that's the small size. Yeah. And uh if you're 8 ft away, pretty hard to uh to read and see it very clearly versus the the large size is three times bigger. >> Heavy. Thank you. >> Yeah, they're they're all of them are the same thickness. It's just the uh you know the face size whatever and the font. the font uh is larger on the uh on the larger ones and and if we don't do any change at all uh and we and we have and we go ahead and install them it's as you know as as the engineers want to do whereas some of us on the committee didn't want it to do it that way anyway the point is we should at least do the percentage should be switched I mean it should be you know of the ones that we're going to buy the the ones that we that uh that they were going to by they figured it was going to be 205 large and 254 small. Um that's got to be uh reversed for sure if not even you know like say 300 on the large and um anyway somehow somehow massaged so that it's a you know it so that it looks pretty because right now it looks pretty with the all the different you know whatever it needs to look pretty. That's true. But but there's there's going to be a a happy medium in in there where we've got a a little bit more percentage of larges in there, >> which just makes sense. >> So, um I I prefer everyone to be on the same page on this thing. And so I don't know, do we have we coming to a deadline where we need to get this approved so that because this pro work's going to start here in a couple weeks, correct? >> Correct. >> Yes. >> You need time for the contract to be able to get contracts in place, insurance. There's a lot of it's a twoe process even from the day we award to the day we sign a contract. So if you delay this to the next meeting, we're going to push the start date which pushes us further into the fall which makes it harder to rely on the weather and get this done the right way. >> Yeah, I concur. I don't think it should I think it should be make a decision as far as the bid and whatever and accepting it but that little minor part of the percentage of of of those of those are not in this bid anyway. So we can we can hash that out. Uh >> Mr. Mayor, what I what I would suggest is that we um if the council uh feels that um putting them in place, you know, with blanks um was the priority and then, you know, um keeping the project moving is a priority >> uh that I would ask you to award the project tonight uh as the engineers have recommended it and then um tomorrow we can start asking the contractor if they'd like to entertain a change order. Chain order should really not be considered prior to bid award. Um, it's not good bidding practice to do that. Other contractors that bid the project may have said, "Well, I would have had a better deal on this or that." So, it's it's not good practice to to consider change orders ahead of the project. Either you're either awarding the project as it is or you're not. >> But those paver sizes are not in the contract. They're not in this bid here. But but >> show me where show me where these veterans favors >> the schematics are here that we're working off of and and that's all we can make a decision off of. And so I I would make a motion that we approve the contract as presented by the engineers to Peber Companies, Inc. um as presented in the packet tonight. And I'll leave it that a motion. Is there a second? I would second that. >> Keep it in mind. >> And and just, you know, as far as discussion, we I let's get that all figured out what's in and what's not. Um I I think, you know, as as administrator Scott said that, you know, we can maybe talk about a change order on size and all that. Um but let's get this thing moving forward and get this in for the veterans and and uh so with that is we have a motion. All in favor? >> I >> opposed. Motion carries. Thank you. >> Good night. >> Right. Our second regular agenda item, speed bumps in the municipal parking lot. Dave. >> Yeah. Uh we were here a couple months ago at a workshop talking about speed bumps at uh Lakeside. Um kind of gave you a a memo how how we uh Ryan and I work worked this through. um kind of came up with a suggestion of doing temporary speed bumps to kind of get a feel for for if they're in the right placement. And um we came up with two locations. Uh we had a Linda the resident tonight came up with a request for additional um Brian and I had looked at that other stretch and it's it's kind of a interesting stretch because no matter where you put them, you're kind of in where somebody's either backing into a spot or pulling out of a spot or right at an entrance into the park. Um Ryan didn't suggest putting any there. Um, we can look into that, but um, really our recommendation for right now is putting these two in and and seeing how they go. Um the plan would be to try to get them in in September, run them to the fall until snow season, remove them, put them back in next spring, and then um have them in for the summertime into fall and then bring it back to council in the fall and and see if we have any input or feedback of where these locations are, if we should change the spots, if we should go to permanent, um if we should add some, all that kind of stuff for conversation. But uh looking for discussion, direction, comments, anything uh you guys like would uh discuss about this. >> Yeah, I mean go ahead. >> I mean where you have them I I like I mean because you have them anchored with an island um and so people can't easily drive around them, you know, looking at other stretch because there is so much parking perpendicular parking that if they were there not anchored by an island or even if they are they could easily just drive around them. Um, now that said, you know, I'd be curious to see how these first two go and, you know, if we think we should go permanent, you know, maybe look at installing them or let's see what what the trends are actually with with the traffic patterns. Um, you know, because I can certainly see where that would be of the next runway or speed strip, but it's a little more challenging because you've got plenty of real estate to go around them. Um, especially after hours. So I I like where they're at. I think it makes sense. >> Just to bring up to it the other gentleman's comment. So there's speed bumps and there's speed humps. So speed speed bumps are 3 in tall. Speed humps are 2 in tall. So your humps are more of that softer up and down. They don't slow traffic down as much. They're they're designed more to get to 10 to 15 miles an hour where your speed bumps, they're trying to gear towards you getting to five to 10 so you don't shake your teeth out of your your head. So that's kind of if that that speed limit in here is still at 20 and you want to really slow them down, I would recommend the bumps themselves. Those are the 3 in. Um we can also go with the 2 in too that it's a more of a, you know, a softer incline and back down. It's It's probably not going to slow cars down as much. They're probably gonna just hit them a little bit faster. But I I also get his point with the lower lower vehicles, but still a 3 in if his clearance is four and a half, that that would that would clear that as well. So I I think to get a true test of how these work kind of globally throughout the parking lot, it seems to that putting at least one or another one along that other stretch would give us a a better true test of how these how effective they are. Uh I get where you're going to where you're pulling off potentially pulling out onto one if you're backing out of those spots there. Um because ideally you it's not as ideal as as council member Ericson talked about tying it to a a median. I don't know if there's an opportunity by the crosswalk on the north side there to do something on either side. It looks like there might be a little bit of median to the south of that. Um and maybe right where that main I don't know if you put one where the main entrance to park is if that does obstruct people from walking or it's a trip hazard. I I don't know the ADA compliance stuff, but I I like the location there. I would prefer to see one or two on the other one to get a real true test of it, but that's just just my thoughts. >> Just for your reference on this map, too. Those two landscaping spots up on the north end are going to be gone. The north one just got paved in today with a new parking spot, and that south one will be ripped out and put in with a new parking spot um after it's in the park on Wednesday. So, Those will be not a curb anymore with landscaping though their two parking spots now. So that that curving kind of or that landing shrinks down. >> Okay. >> I tend to agree with um Mayor Roberts in that I would like to see just at least one additional one on that um eastern side there. And I think yeah, if we could put it either I don't know, it's unfortunate that there's not a spot where we could put it next to one of those medians, but I think closer to that crosswalk on the northern part would probably be most ideal. Um, if we're worried about people backing up and the parking spots, but >> I would like to see an additional one. >> I think you're just going to have people drive around them, honestly. But I think if it's close to that, like there's the median there on the on both sides, then they wouldn't they'd have to drive up on the curb. >> I totally understand if it's it's if it's south, they would definitely drive around it. That's why I'd be more inclined to see it in the northern part by that crosswalk. >> Just south of the crosswalk, you're saying? >> Yeah. Yep. So I guess is the you know whether wherever it's at is the goal to I mean ideally they like to slow people down all the time but more importantly slow people when it is busy and there are usually cars parked there so it's mean obviously you want both but controlling speed when there's a lot more traffic there is is more important than than it being in the middle of the night when there are no cars. So, >> if I could weigh in uh as your substitute engineer for you know I I do think the idea of them of people driving around them um a you know maybe just defeats the purpose but I think also there's a safety issue there where you're you're driving around into what should be parking spots. people who might be that first space or two might be vacant, but then you might have someone either coming perpendicular to you in the parking aisle that you don't see and that they're not expecting someone to be coming out of what would be a parking spot, right? I think just like in a in a big Target parking lot or a Walmart or something, you don't drive across the not supposed to drive across the vacant areas. You're supposed to stay in the aisles, right? I think encouraging people to get into those vacant spots could be problematic. So, I think if you're going to do one on that eastern um runway, call it. Uh I think the spot Miss Valento and someone else suggested they're south of that crosswalk. As long as it's not too close to that crosswalk, I think would be the other spot that I would support. I mean, I think um looks like there's probably an opportunity there to to get one in without having too many issues with people backing over it. Okay. Um any other thoughts? And we're we're kind it seems like we're splitting hairs here a little bit. So, I'm fine with either way. I I glad that we have this with a test and see how it goes. But um if we want a full a real real test of how they're going to work, if they are, I think having additional one just seems to make sense. So I guess with that, I will make a motion. And we're looking for a motion or just direction. Motion, are we not? >> Yot. Yeah. motion that we install uh three speed bumps uh admissible parking lot, two that are indicated already on uh the west side of the lot and then the additional one just south on the east side of the lot just south or wherever we're able to do so uh just south of that crosswalk on the north end of the lot. >> I'll second motion a second. Any further discussion? All in favor? I I opposed. >> Motion carries. All right. So, we've strict nine a discussion item. So, we'll go to staff updates and Abby. Uh just a couple quick updates. Planning commission meets on Wednesday night this week. It's a light agenda. So, we have scheduled some training um land use training your know your role kind of an hour long that's u presented by the league. So, it's a pre-recorded webinar. Um our second meeting of the month will be cancelled even though it feels light on the planning commission right now. We do have a ton of development stuff that is coming down and getting ready um for entitlements as well as a lot of earth kind of being moved out in the field. So, um there's still quite a bit happening um despite planning commission not quite meeting right now as much. Um also just I have updated the council a few different times. Um city staff is working through quite a number of code enforcement complaints. Turns out when the public finds out you have a code enforcement officer, >> you get a little uptick in complaints. Quite a number of complex cases that are taking a lot more staff time than I think we anticipated and quite a number of non-nuisancebased complaints. So, as a reminder, we created our nuisance ordinances and our administrative citation system, but a lot of the complaints that we're getting aren't necessarily always public nuisances. It's us sleuththing through our code and just finding code violations. So Dan's really been doing a great job and I'm hoping at an upcoming meeting in September at least as just an FYI in your packet we'll kind of do a three-month review now that he's here not of him but of how the program's working with a part-time quarter time staff. So, >> uh, Abby, as long as you mention that, talk about like his hours now, maybe potential for more and I don't know if council if it's a discussion thing that we want additional next year as we're contemplating the budget, um, more of his time. >> Yeah. So, um, as a reminder to the council, you allowed me to convert some, uh, part-time seasonal code enforcement, right? So we'd hire an intern and it just it worked. But by the time we kind of teed somebody up, they were really gone. And our code enforcement season is really snow off to snow down, right? That's our peak season. Not that there is an enforcement happening year round. Dan's hours are 13 and a half hours a week. He's usually here two to three days. Um it's not enough time. And I did make the request initially when I made the request to administration for the budget. I put that request as at least 20 hours in the budget. 20 hours is currently what is proposed in the 2026 budget. There is enough work for Dan to work full-time. Um there could even be some augmented summer seasonal support. I have talked with him. He's favorable to increasing hours even up to full-time. Um I think that there are a number of um what I would say backburnered complex enforcement cases that involve um not only multiple departments but also multiple agencies that we've had to we have not had the resources to dedicate to. These are and you've seen some of them come before you. Um without having code enforcement, dedicated code enforcement staff and just some of the other resources that our existing staff had had, we weren't able to handle some of those cases. And now there's we're trying to handle them, but frankly we're not doing them the most efficiently effectively. And a lot of them are fits and starts, right? So you some of those hazardous building actions we take action we have to wait 30 days 60 days 90 days we have to wait until a court order you know many different things and just the tracking that alone um can just be so it's his own challenge um thankfully legal counsel's been really helpful and supportive in that but I definitely think that there's an opportunity for increased code enforcement even on a proactive level that's nothing to say on or on a reactive level That's nothing to say about even proactive code enforcement efforts. >> So with that, council, do you do you want to see maybe some increased hours or revisit this or put a placeholder for more hours or are we comfortable with just 20 or I know this is maybe not the right time to have this conversation, but we've got a little time here and it just to help tea up for staff what that might look like if we're open to that at least conversation. I think it'd be a good idea to keep that in the in the thought, especially since he's willing to do that. I think it's it'd be good to be progressive. >> So, potentially north of 20 hours, >> correct? >> Yeah. I think, you know, the move to go to 20 hours is really the big move because that uh institutes benefits. They're they're prrated in some regard, but it you're move from 13 to 20 is a bigger jump than move from 20 to it's about the same maybe as 20 to 40 just because of the benefits that are added. even even just a a 20 to 32, right? Like it's not a it's not a huge savings to go from 20 to 40 to 20 to 32. But Mark is right. Your big jump would be your 13 to 20 because right now um our 13hour 13 half hour employees aren't uh benefited employees. So you do have that kind of 30% of the salary cost for those benefits at 20 hours a week. That's something that we'd be open to to >> Yeah, I'd be open to that. >> I'd be open. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I think it's it's great that we at least have this and we're starting to to get through these and and let's let's continue. Um so, I'd be real open to having that conversation. >> That's great. Thank you. I'll continue to work with Mark and finance on that proposal and the budget. >> Great. Anything else from >> I don't unless you have any questions for me. Okay, Dave, anything? >> Yeah, Dan's doing a great job. You even pinch public works on a colderation. So, >> perfect. >> Doing great. >> Uh, no other no other updates. >> Mark, >> Mr. Mayor, just want to welcome our our two new officers and our uh, as I understand it, our first human resources professional on the staff. Um, so uh, thank you for approving those hires tonight. Um, staff is getting very excited about having some additional help here. Um, just a quick note, I think our finance director, I think when we approved her position uh and and the offer, the anticipated start date was mid August, it's been pushed back just two weeks so she can honor some commitments she has at her previous employer and not leave them high and dry on very important issues. So, um, we want to thank everybody for working with us on that and, um, come midepptember, we're going to have three additional professionals in our office and we're very excited for that. So, >> great, >> Council Member Miller. >> Uh, nothing for me, thanks. >> Council member Vano, >> no updates for me tonight. Council >> member Ericson, >> no updates for me. >> Council member Larson, >> nothing for me. Thank you. >> I don't have anything either. Uh so I actually I'll entertain a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> I'll second. >> Second. Any further discussion? >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> We'rejourned. [Music]