[Music] we will call to order the joint Planning Commission and city council meeting for September 4th 2024 at 6: pm. welcome everybody that's here and online and we will start with the Pledge of Allegiance IED Al to the flag of the United States of America for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all I would look for a motion to approve the meeting agenda this Robin aler this is oh go ahead nope you go this is Janet second there's a motion made in a second we'll call for the vote Scott I we gonna share Janet I Rob I Barb I Jesse I sue I Ron I Robin I and Lyn I now we will go to a look for a motion for the approval of the August 21st 2024 Planning Commission meeting minutes is there a motion this Robin I'll make a motion that we accept those minutes Scott I'll second okay motion's made in a second I'll call for the vote you want to start with no just Planning Commission Scott I Barb I Rob and I and Lynn I'll abstain because I wasn't here next is the approval of the August 21st 2024 mtw Truck Wash public hearing meeting minutes um I noted on page 13 of our packet page 6 of7 of the truck wash public hearing minutes sorry I didn't catch this sooner uh that there's three small errors on that page uh the fourth paragraph that begins with SE Barb I have one more question too that was attributed to uh commissioner wood that should be changed to Wendell and the two subsequent subsequent follow-up questions should also be changed thank you okay with that I make a motion to approve the truckwash public hearing minutes with the for mentioned edits who's Robin I'll second okay there's a motion made in a second I'll call for the vote Scott I Barb I Robin I and Lena I'll abstain cuz I wasn't here okay next is public open form does anybody have anything to say hello yes that would be you guys okay if you could bring up slide one anybody online hearing none we will go to the presentation from the Anoka County election Integrity team there we go okay um good evening mayor council members committee members and staff I'm Brenda Miller and I've been in Columbus residence since 2016 I am here as a member of the inoka county election Integrity team also known as AC aset I met with council member hegland and administrator Davis a few weeks ago along with two other acent members and this evening many more of us are here to present a summary of what was discussed and then to take some questions our nonpartisan group came together over deep concerns for the loss of local control of our elections as you can see our members have a variety of experience many with it backgrounds administration business owners and many of us are election judges over the last two years we've grown to over 20 members who consistently meet every week we've done deep are done in-depth research to identify election reform strategies that you as city leaders can take to bring back control of our elections and make them more secure and give Columbus residents more confidence in the election process the purpose of Elections is to accurately measure the will of the people but our elections have become so complex and outsourced that more than 60% of Americans no longer trust the election process we focused on solutions that apply existing law focuses on what we can do now and emphasis local control and these are the goals we are focusing on number one small voting precincts two election secured election judge data three verified registered voters validated paper ballots paper poll books and hand-counted paper ballots and we do have sample resolutions available for each of these okay the first is the importance of maintaining small voting precincts and this is done with local control and management and as you know Columbus currently has one Precinct um we've included a graph illustrating Columbus's registered voters from 2010 to 2022 the red line delineates 2,000 registered voters um the Minnesota Secretary of State recommends that no more than 2,000 registered voters um are are per Precinct because it's more easily managed and as you can see um Columbus is growing and um it seems to be time to have it um two precincts because the population has gotten quite a bit above the 2,000 line okay the next one so keep in mind keeping in mind that the cities are authorized to determine Precinct size please consider resolution to keep keep it under 2,000 and add precinct for Columbus so it's more easily managed slide eight because many of us are election judges we are concerned about the security of election judge information and so our second action is to secure election judge personal data through local management and storage there's always data security risk and Outsourcing and we have found that in NOA County outsources this information it's currently using the modus software through the contract with inch software Solutions Incorporated and we have a big concern with this because this is a non-governmental agency and organizations like this um have no um they don't have to be um react to any foyer requests so with Outsourcing things especially in elections we have concerns because in this case it manages data related to election operations including election judge information and therefore like I said if hacked NOS don't have don't have to respond to Freedom of Information Act requests so judges would really have no place to go to request information if there was a breach and this happens frequently now with the NOS that we're finding is happening more often in government so the contract that we've looked at seems to have vague outlines of what the company's responsibilities are and who sees that information and this poses a security threat not only to the election judge but potent Al other election items so as we know data transferred electronically is hackable and the cloud is hackable encryptions don't eliminate risk and as we've seen it's hacked every day often third parties that transfer data know that it's hackable so they do Infuse language in their contracts that frequently clears them of responsibilities data shared cannot be controlled and therefore poses a security threat so as you can see here we would request to bring that back in house and have it on a local PC without El electronic connections to other entities since there are security risk with Outsourcing and government does have an obligation to protect the information of its employees and election judges our government employees we would like you to consider a resolution to bring all that information back in house okay thank you okay now I'll turn it over to to Scott to do the next goal hi I'm Scott cogins from Andover uh I'm an election judge I'm also um have background in e-learning and technology and what I want to talk to you uh about is goal number three which is verified registered us uh voters and through local uh management and through the Secretary of State uh they manage the Statewide voter registration system and provides the master list that ultimately goes to the county auditor the county is technically there to to clean up voter roles and clean that list up um our group wanted to make sure that that was getting done so we actually looked at different software and and questioned the county in terms of what they were doing um and there at the from what we were told from the county there wasn't funding available so we found a software we could use to um actually look at this and when we did that we found uh basically [Music] um yeah next slide we found 2,218 potential duplicate active voter regist uh registrations in the county uh and many of these were many years old uh so we basically uh wanted to look at more detail and we were able to uh connect with um Tom Hunt within Anoka County and work with him collaboratively at to look more into this so essentially um that list he then looked and verified um th those numbers and ultimately uh was able to go through their process and look at the list that we provided and were able to send out cards and there basically were uh 900 um 969 cards that are sent out to basically verify um those duplicate records that we found and so the idea here is that we're working collaborative with the county we found a problem identifi it but technically we shouldn't have to be doing this so really ultimately what um we're want to inform you about is we need we basically want to make sure that the county is doing these things and so there's higher-end filters that they could be doing and um next slide essentially there's a resolution that we'd like you to look at um which is basically requesting funding and execute these highlevel filters um so that the county is doing this and ultimately uh cleaning up these voter roles next Slide the next goal is uh validated paper ballots through local management next slide and essentially we want to let you know that the M uh cities can administer their own absentee ballots including mailin ballots and so we just wanted to provide that information next slide um we wanted to show you that obviously the trend is now um going more towards early voting so mailin voting uh is happening more often and so the whole idea here is a lot of these things have been pushed Upstream um and harder for us to manage and see and it turns into a black box that we can't either ask questions or get answers and so what we're providing you is Solutions and resolutions that you can do as a city to empower you and bring those things back locally so next slide so in summary just wanted to talk about the fact that obviously there's greater risk um with fraud with mail and ballots we' recommend that you would adopt a resolution for mail-in ballots using counterfeit um resistant ballots and so we have a lot of uh information in terms of actual resolutions and and can provide that later but I wanted to bring that to your attention I'll pass it to the next [Music] [Applause] person thank you Scott my name is dererk Lind and I live in Ramsey uh third time out here um election Integrity goal number five is return to paper poll books uh next slide please you look at the state of Minnesota here on this chart 28 counties right now do not use electronic Pole books 16 counties use them in some precincts and then 45 counties um use the E Pole books next slide please if you choose to go electronic you're bringing these software vendors into that process you can see that list right there noink is the main software vendor Verizon Cisco moroi you can read the list your your all of those software vendors would be involved in the process of using electronic Pole books if you choose to go with paper on the right hand side there nobody's involved just you next slide please according to State Statute 201225 you have a choice as to whether or not you use electronic Pole books it's right there it says you may use them if you want to next slide please uh paperworks do you guys remember the days when we would go vote and you'd walk into your Precinct and they you'd tell them your name and they'd flip over the paper and they'd find your name and you'd say that seemed to work just fine didn't it that's the way we did it until 2018 the last three elections we've been using these electronic Pole books our team would say this is one of the most important things we need to get rid of if if you want to bring security back into our elections nobody should know that I'm voting on Election Day until the election's over when I walk into that Precinct today and I hit that pull book they know I'm there nobody should know that that's part of election Integrity uh nearby aan County which is just to our North they're still using paper in 17 out of 19 precincts uh we have to have paper as a backup anyways so it's already there uh we were told at one time the paper was printed the night before now we're starting to hear something different but it is it it's well I don't I don't want to speak to that it's it's pretty close to up to date I I apologize we don't have a better answer for you on that each each Precinct maintains their copy onsite on Election Day next slide please our recommendation is that you return to Paper Pull books Paper Pull books are the safe way to check voters in thank you uh hello my name is Joe Richardson I live in Andover I am a past and current election judge so acet 6th Integrity election goal is handc counted paper ballots during the elections everything we do as judges is verified at least twice except for the actual vote it's not verified at all we rely on a tabulator vote counting machine whatever you want to call it to accurately count the vote of each paper ballot but we don't check it the only way to verify the accuracy is to do a hand count of the ballots go to the next slide please so aset uh started out pursuing a strategy of not using the tabulators at all and hand counting ballots on the election day unfortunately the legislature in 2023 changed the law that said if you had used the tabulators for federal or state elections you had to continue to use them you couldn't eliminate them so then we shift over to performing a hand count after the polls were done to do a verification of the tabulators but then in 2024 the legislature changed the law that said once the tabulators upload electronically the information and print the tape they have to immediately take the ballots and put them in the boxes and get them sent over to the city or the county so that eliminated that possibility of trying to do hand count the night of the election so in response to all these changes we've now shifted to looking at doing a what we call an expanded post elction review or purr um and for those not familiar with the pur the pur is Pur is basically just doing a hand count of a particular Precinct so we go to the next slide so why why hand count our current voting process is it's basically a black box you stick your ballot in you don't know what happens no one knows what happens um so there is no one that could truly stand before you and with 100% accuracy and confidence tell you that the tabulator correctly counted the vote there's there's no way to do that um so when when the tabulators were were first introduced years back for the election process they were accepted by everybody based on the ability to audit the tabulator results through cast bolt records and digital images so that that gave everybody confidence that you could do a check so the digital images are basically a photo copy of each ballot front and back side that goes into the tabulator um these records were supposed to be available for review so that you could anyone could do an audit you know of the tabulators used in the election process however in 2023 again we passed another law that prevented the public public from having access to these digital images and cast VT records so there is no way for anybody in the public to in Minnesota to look at them and do any form of an audit and go to the next slide so as as you can see on this on on the left hand side there are very few races that actually have a standard per performed on them basically Federal Federal races and the governor everything on the right hand side is not has never had a purr done we don't do a purr for the presidential or the general primaries and we don't do any purs for any of the down ballots so they are never audited they've never been checked on anything it's just assumed that they are correct can we go to the next slide so in a NOA County there's only again as I said there's only a couple offices looked at and we only look they only typically do a perr of four of 128 precincts uh in 2022 they did increase that to to six so they did six of 128 so when you think about it we have 128 tabulators out in the various precincts across to NOA County and we only do a look of four of them for just a couple of the race so if you look at that pie chart which would look at you know all the tabulators all the races you can barely see that sliver of what is actually checked that's less than. 3% is is reviewed the the good news is that you do have the ability you know there's no there's no law preventing or anything that we can increase the number of offices that are looked at and we can increase the number of precincts that actually have a per d to them go to the next so Hand counting is the state's gold standard for counting votes when there is any need to do a recount because you have a TI tight race or some other audit reason they hand count they don't reuse the tabulators they hand count so in uh 2023 I don't know if you're familiar but in NOA hopen School District the race up in the Blaine area was very close so they had to under law do a hand count and the Hand count actually found one more vote for the winner than what the tabulators were able to come up with because the tabulators can't look at voters intent they just kicked a vote out that they shouldn't have and then as you can also note during that race and some other studies um it takes less than 6 seconds to count a vote so it's it's not a long period of time these can be done in a relatively reasonable time time frame we go to our next so Hand counting is a feasible strategy that that can be done um we would what we call an expanded perr um that we could look at being done we'd use use the tabulators at day of vote just like the state law does um but then we would ask that an expanded purr be performed um for the selected precincts that you want and hand count only the competitive races there's no reason to hand count when you only have a single person running for an office so you just ignore those and just focus on the competitive races uh the purr is performed between 9 and 14 days following the election day it's not something that's immediate there is a time of you know more than a week but no more than two weeks it's set by the ballot board um so you can you know do that hand counting at that point in time election judges you know they're not like I just did my 16 hours and have to go again the next day go to the next slide so this is what your guys's Precinct would look like uh if you were to do an expanded per on it you can see it's basically a th000 it would be $1,000 based on the information we have you will get a copy of of this spreadsheet you can make change if we have the pay rate wrong maybe we have an office or two wrong and you can make adjustments and and figure it out for yourselves so you have the exact data you would need for that uh so with that I'll turn it over here to Lori still okay hello my name is Lori mold and I live in Rapids um I'd like to take a moment to weave together what you've heard from us and make sure that you know you're the Lynch pin to saving our nation sounds like big lofty words right rather melodramatic but it's true local control is so important it's critical you see the truth is you do an excellent job for your portion of the process but when we hand parts of the process off we lose control um that we don't have those accuracy controls any longer and control has shifted to higher levels of government without us in some cases even knowing about it and what's worse is that we have a growing Trend where we're handing stuff off to non-governmental organizations instead of keeping it as the process controlled within our own governments and now we're being prevented as Joe and Brenda have shared we were being prevented from seeing the source data so that we can verify it so I'm just going to run us through the most current example with uh the voting at the precincts and in your city your well-trained teams know exactly how to handle those ballots right they've got processes they're tight on it everywhere we look we're doing a great job at the city level uh right down to making sure that we heard that clink when the ballot was fed into the tabulator fell in the Box it's like warming to our hearts as election judges right and so we know we also saw the tabulator go up account so we have this sense of security in even the nighttime you know end of the night uh routine that we have where the the ticker tape comes out of the tabulator and we transfer that information over to the summary sheet we're good at that we're very good but after that we kind of lose sight the problem is that we're assuming that what the tabulator tells us for vote counts for each and every candidate is accurate well we never had our eyes on that and yet we're expected to sign off on that summary sheet and on the ticker tapes that we're saying those are accurate counts we don't know that uh we trust but we don't verify so we've heard lots of stories about the legislation has changed that we can't verify a lot of things anymore and the problem is we trusted without verifying for so long that we're starting to lose some of our options to do that verifying it's starting to slip away but there are still actions that you at the city level that have the authority and the control to make as you've heard from from us these six goals that we've set out here are things that you can do that's where we focused not things that are out of your touch um we've shared this information with with other cities in inoka county and they're seeing the problem too in fact some have begun to take action um when we first started uh presenting these they're like okay that's six really great things but what do we focus on First and so we suggested the expanded purr that Joe was just talking about so we've had Oak Grove we've had Ramsay and we've had uh Ham Lake all pass resolutions sorry I'm not keeping up with the thank you um pass resolutions uh to um request that their precincts be on the list of those that get the purr now when they're doing those resolutions they're not only saying hey we want to be part of that perr canvasing board um we want our precincts included they're also saying and not just the top of the ballot we want the down ballot as well every Race Matters and so we suggest you guys take the uh this information and decide is this right for you I mean this is a great way for you to be able to tell the citizens in your city hey we know your vote counts because we actually counted your vote um and so there's a sample resolution in your packet uh for you to consider and customize for your city lots of resolutions in that packet uh but including the pur um and we just want to remind you that we know that your decisions are powerful and that they not only affect right now but the generations to come cuz we've seen Generations start to lose this ability to verify but you can still reclaim it when you're in control there can be Assurance of accuracy uh and we know that people care about this because we just had Alpha news Liz Collins come and do an article uh with us um and do a put a video out there and telling about how we're kind of saying trust but verify and in just a few short weeks there was over 120,000 views as it traveled from alpha news to rumble to YouTube and other places so people are hungry for this and I think that when you take action people are going to support you in this way so this is kind of what we want to talk about there's six different actions and we you know if you're picking one we'd say the purr and get rid of the E pole pads uh but we would be happy to answer questions now later uh both um and so that kind of wraps it up for us and uh before I give the microphone back to Derek and and Brenda I'm going to say thank you we appreciate you guys making the time for us and giving us your attention thank you thank you for the time are are there any questions this is Robin how many uh how long are we talking about this delaying results of the election by going through the hand counting are we going to announce results like typical the next day and then we're going to hand count and tell you if it's different I think the pur takes place about 10 days after is that yeah but what are the what are they going to wait to re announce results of the pur no they announce earlier on on the night of the election you the you know we would you would still upload from the tabulator the information the tapes would still uh get everything would get dropped off the next day or two with the county as as required so everything everything would happen just as it was the the purr is just it's just an audit of check validation um and and you know they they normally do a purr we're just asking for an expanded purr and then they certify following that okay so it doesn't delay anything how how soon does certification normally take place before it's it's basically the same process cu the ballot board will meet they meet um a few days after the election and then they um establish this per I think they've already picked the date and Loc a but the some final stuff then they do the pur and that that information goes back to the ballot board and they do the certification yeah so it's all within the same time frame we not caning board or canvasing board I'm sorry B canvasing board but there there's no change in any time frames okay good thank you uh yeah thank you this is Janet um first I would just want to thank you all I I know you spent a huge amount of time doing this this is all volunteer unpaid just on on their own account and you know whether you believe that there might be a problem or not I mean these are these are concerned citizens that are trying to be proactive in um in their attempts to to basically uh provide some confidence in the election process and as you know that 60% figure does not surprise me um so I as we talked at at our meeting what um made a lot of sense to me was that this isn't about contesting prior elections or even contesting the election it's putting processes in place so that everybody can feel comfortable that there is integrity in the system that things haven't been hacked that there's you know checks and balances over and above what what currently exists now and and that actually makes a lot of sense to me um my question is one for Jack I Know Jack you were going to reach out to Mr Hunt I don't know if you had a chance to do that and the reason that that's important is um and correct me if I'm wrong it from what I know of our process a lot of it gets dictated by the county so it might say in statute that municipalities have some uh ability to sort of you know make decisions that hasn't been what I've observed but perhaps you can speak to that Jack I haven't received anything back from Mr Hunt as of yet and am I right that some of this like if you if if if Columbus said no we want to go back to paper pole pads we can't just do that and even with the purr my understanding is that we can make this resolution a NOA County can veto it correct that's correct the canvasing board can say no yep so so I think I think one of the important um steps and I think you guys have done a great job on this is is to continue to maintain that collegial relationship with the with the county so that we're working towards this in lock step rather than feeling like it's an adversarial thing um I like a lot of your language you know you're not making accusations you're not um you know uh making assumptions that things are broken now I think what you're doing is you're pointing out vulnerabilities and suggesting solutions for addressing those vulnerabilities and I I I can't see anything wrong with that yeah real quick on the pole pads we're not aware of any reason yet why you can't get rid of those uh the county may push back a little bit on that but we've one of our members here Bob has been digging into that and we don't think there's a joint Powers agreement on that so there's been some back and forth on that want to comment on one other thing too um we've given this presentation to eight cities we were in inoka last night uh next week we're in Rapids and then in October we're in Lio Lakes so 10 cities have brought us in for presentations out of 21 and there's several other cities that are still thinking about it we don't know if we'll get into them in time but that shows you the appetite for doing something within Anoka County it's not just you guys any other questions I was I was just going to mention one more thing about the pole pads is that you're required to have a paperback up anyway so regardless you already have it there so what is the additional cost to the city to implement this I saw 999 bucks somewhere yeah the estimate is $9.99 yeah and I Know Jack you did sort of a back of the napkin calculation when we were meeting with with Brenda um and uh can't think of the Lisa thank you um and you pretty much came I think it was $1,200 yeah I came up, to $1,200 we were pretty well in the ballpark with that estimate yeah one of the Mayors who's thinking about doing this says we have budgets that can be millions of dollars we can spend a th000 bucks to verify our votes so so we have one Precinct here for 3,000 people yeah we can keep one Precinct correct I mean yeah you can uh it's recommended that you you break it up but but that's not a statute I don't believe so it's like a recommendation I think I think that I understand the recommendation I think that the question is with all the early voting that happens now I'm not sure I think that's a that's a recommendation that deserves to be relooked at because it's not like the old days where you had everybody showing up at the polling place on that day and lines were going out into the parking lot and things like that we still get a lot of people who do it in person but we get a ton of people that that cast their votes um and you know a lot of our citizens send them here they drop them off or they wait until there's direct balloting those 7 days before um or I don't know what it is now it used to be seven days they they want to feed that thing into to the machine themselves so I think the I think the majority of the absentee balloting that happens at least in Columbus people people try to maintain that level of control by either bringing it in here rather than mailing it into an NOA County and or waiting until they can come in and feed it into the machine themselves right that's a great point if we do see a day where we go to just hand counting that's where you're going to want the smaller precincts it just makes it easier but we don't have to be there today so any other questions I do have a question so you um and thank you that's a lot of good information I appreciate all your time um just that's dedicated to this and I mean I I'm for voter integrity and I hope everybody is MH um but I was trying to figure out when you do a purr or of any of them that have happened what were the results have you found that there once you audit the electronic that the hand count revealed something different we've never been part of that process uh there was do you have something you want to say2 22 election there was one there was change was one error I think one air we're told that they're pretty accurate uh the mayor of Oak Grove Weston he's going to do all four of his precincts and he's going all the way down the ballot you know what he says he says I hope I hope it's 100% accurate then we verified it by computer and by hand we know we got the count right there could be other things wrong with the election but not the count but not the count correct okay and and that's the point Joe was trying to make we don't double check this we check it one time and it's so important we should be checking it twice that's what that's what Deb Musgrove said from the city of Ramsay and she spearheaded them extending the purr they're doing six precincts out of nine and they're going all the way down so is it against the rules to do an actual hand count on our own on Election night yeah or it's against the law now against the law okay yeah they sealed they sealed the ballot so Joe is talking we won't be doing that right right maybe someday they just changed that lot this year okay I think I mean I just think practically you can ask anybody who works those elections by that 8:00 time I mean sometimes they aren't shutting down here until 10 10:00 at night they've been there since whatever 7:00 in the morning or whatever I wouldn't want to be hand counting anything after no if we were if we were hand counting you need fresh judges yeah just it gets tiring I I have a a question or statement or what thank you again for coming in and and and letting us know about this and all that but so what's the goal because if we do it one year you should really do it every year correct because you if there's infiltration or something in a computer system so this is something that you really kind of voting on for the whole future yeah I mean that's that's a very broad question but I think in the beginning the goal is to do something and that's why we came up with these six action items so start with these six and by the way our first city that we uh went to was Oak Grove and they said thank you for the presentation the six recommendations but that's a lot which one is the most important and I said get rid of the poll books and Bob back there in the corner he said extend the purr and that's what they ended up passing so the first thing they did was extend the purr they're doing all four precincts and now they're looking at the poll books they want to take them kind of one thing at a time CU it's a lot it's a lot to take in politically you know and and working with staff and stuff too it's hard to change six things overnight so the goal is to kind I think you're also sending a message to the county that they need to do something County hasn't been doing anything we spent 18 months in front of the county didn't get anywhere so then we dropped down to the city level and it were our message is resonating here like I said 10 cities invited us in we don't know how many purs we're going to end up with but we're we think it's going to be north of three we're at three right now and we we think we could get several more I don't I don't like to make predictions so uh Janet made a a question over there that the county can veto it or yes so when would they veto it or when would the process happen when you request to count them afterwards would they say the county said nope is that when it would happen uh let me let me respond to your first question first so on all the resolutions that were passed they're they're not just for this year they're continuing resolutions okay so it basically say like in ramsy they wanted two 2/3 of all their precincts going forward to have the expanded purse so if they grow there'll be more of them included in there um so the canvasing board will will meet post election uh they have a time frame they have to meet and they will make the decision at that time whether to allow these expanded purs to go forward or not and that that's after the election day so I don't know is it 3: to 5 something like that when when's the canvas board meet after election 3 to 5 days something like that I think this year the is probably 18 or 19th that's to make so they'll decide before the 18th but I think it's 3 to five days they meet and they make the decision We Believe November 18th is the day they've already set to do the person so well if you guys met with the county you must have got a feeling that they wouldn't do something like that would they well it's it's it's a different group three of them are elected officials uh two of them I believe are staff correct yeah two staff yeah two staff and three elected officials so I mean politics will be involved we're we're active in the BP us and and we'll apply the political pressure as we can but yeah they they could do whatever they want if if if you get a bunch of cities that say we want a hand count and the county tells them no then well we'll see what happens that's what elections are for yeah thank you very much thank you Jack I have another question for you it's a process question so if we adopt a resolution say for an expanded per then the results of that and it passes then you send it off to the county correct correct and then typically what's the response time I mean there's other resolutions where we pass things and it goes to the state or the county or whatever I mean is there any sort of standard like they they get back to you within some period of time or do they just it all depends okay I hate to give that answer but that that that's that's the true fact this is what happens when you're on the bottom of the food chain I believe they wait for the canvas board I think the canvas board makes that decision so I think Tom Hunt would say we'll see what the canvas board decides he's not deciding it okay and yeah that's I haven't got any word back but the canvas board is the one that certifies our election results and that's you the city council right I I mean I I I know that we get those results we see how many overvotes and undervotes and the whole thing and then we pass a resolution to to accept the results before you go yeah so is this the spearhead of a a new thing happening I think so I would bet that the last 100 elections in Columbus were Within one vote or less incorrect Elizabeth ran a TI ship I yeah I think I think that I I think their point is that they're not saying it's necessarily broken it's it's proactively assuring accuracy going forward and also proactively preventing you know if if you're a bad actor and you're deciding you're going to hack into something you know that routinely there's a there's a postelection review of some random number of I mean they don't know which Precinct or which um races you're going to count you might think twice about doing that cities I mean so it's not going to change it's not going to fix the whole problem or the or the perception Nationwide I should say but it's something that we can offer our citizens that we take it seriously and here's what we've done to ensure that our that our elections are accurate that's very well said uh this is the beginning of a movement we've got two years into this we think we're going to be here for years afterwards we're we're working at the the local level the county level and then ultimately up at the state level cuz that's where a lot of the worst laws are at but we have to start somewhere the political power starts at the local level and that's why we're reaching out to these cities that was my point see it expanding to we we think that county is the leader on this right now but it's in other counties in fact when I leave this place I'm calling there's a group in Sherburn County and there's a larger group than ours down in Dakota County we've been meeting with them too they've been they actually got started a year ahead of us so this is It's In Pockets throughout the state but we think we're the best organized just just from two years we meet every single week I mean we were all strangers we came together out of nowhere from all different cities and we spend a lot of time together and I've been voting for 55 years or so most of the changes have come in The Last 5 Years though when you think about it mail and ballots electronic pull pads these machines have only been around for 20 years the the the the machines we're using today you know and that's what I'm thinking the old ladies who are younger than I am now used to say oh here you are here's your line here's your address you still got the same mad yep okay go vote so now it becomes you throw it into a computer and who knows what yeah and the state has been passing these these awful laws lately so we got to start somewhere that's why we need your help we asking for your help and you say it's catching on what we think our message is resonating you know like Lori mentioned 120,000 views uh it's 10 cities inviting us back I think that tells you a lot uh 10 out of 21 and there's a couple other cities that are thinking about it so yeah we 60% of the public doesn't trust the elections we got a problem you know it's it's a matter of getting organized and it's a political movement you know and that's that's what this is so and we' we're starting to establish some pretty good leaders elected leaders this is what you can do as a city before the state takes more power away right that's that's the trend most of power is Shifting to the state and federal level an election should be done by you guys you guys should conduct the elections for Columbus CU you know that you know the city you know the people you know the addresses well and that's the most important thing is your vote yeah they keep talking about speed we've got a complaint right now that we were slow in the primary right saying that the totals were an hour late all of that was computerized we haven't changed anything you know poster election review comes after but so and feel free to continue to contact us with more questions you can email I think you've got Brenda as a contact I know uh like Oak grve they they were calling us all the time afterwards you know they're just working through some things many cities were so feel free to reach out to us and we have a sample resolution yes to adopt so y that could be there next M next Wednesday that would send a powerful message to your voters and to an NOA County and trust me we're going back to an NOA County we're going to say we got x amount of cities supporting that you guys do something it depends on how many we can get to pass these resolutions whether or not the canvas board approves it that's not your problem that's our problem we'll deal with that so the what's the downside 1,000 bucks extra pre-election yeah yeah and we already are paying the county doesn't pay so we're paying for everything yeah you got to get some judges you pay for it it's your judges send them down there that that's assuming all the judges that's assuming all the judges charge and we do know there's a lot of Judges that do it for free so that number could actually go down that's a great point I live in Ramsey and I told the ramsy election clerk I said I'll do it for free and I got 10 friends and they they weren't interested in that you know but I think we could get there someday cuz we're talking once every two years you know but your vote is a pretty important thing absolutely it's going to be the last thing we have left yeah and for a th000 bucks right or 1,200 I think you got a different quot over there whatever it is all right thank you for your time thank you you again thank you and and please we welcome and I hope you do contact Tom Hunt with any questions you know yep on that we're we're really supportive great [Music] that thank you yeah now we will move on for the Planning Commission to have their discussion on the mtw truck wash cup that was a public hearing at the last meeting is there anybody here from mtw okay any discussion from the Planning Commission members that were here no I had one that I when I was reading over the notes um do you have plans to put an inground sprinkler system in cuz it's kind of been a thing here here there's businesses that don't and their trees are dying and they don't replace them and then there's businesses like truckaline was all for it and put it in so that he doesn't have to worry about it so currently on our Landscaping plan we do not have irrigation planned um being that close obviously to the Wetland so the ground is obviously saturated but that is something we could add um with back whe preventers and and everything required to do that so that is something we could add if requirement part of the landscaping for the city um I know for trees and things like that I think we hit on our Landscaping plan but that is something we could add I mean it's just one of the things that I'd like to see um I know truckaline did it but we have another business that didn't and the trees die and you have to replace them and yeah I don't like to go to someplace and tell them hey replace the trees so um or send the compliance officer out for that they should just automatically do it but I think if there's a sprinkler system you have less problems with that so sure um this is Barb um I don't think it's a question of whether or not the truck washing facility is allowed in the dis in that zoning District um and I know that's what we're supposed to decide but I really think it's more complicated than that and my concerns are that I don't feel that we have adequate information about the water like we talked about uh Jack said there would be uh operating at 20 C 20% capacity and that if this goes in it would increase that to 40% capacity that's just one business and it just seems to me that that's excessive and um our real obligation is the safety and Welfare of the residents of the city and then the addition of uh 40 to 50 trucks per day to make this business viable does bother me because we already have heavy uh traffic truck traffic which is and this is just my concern it isn't the rest of the Planning Commission um diesels trucks are polluters and we already have an asphalt plant we have other uh businesses in that District already that have a lot of traffic and then in addition to that we have no plan for um service to that road I know it right now meets capacity but who's going to pay for that down the road with all of these extra trucks so in my opinion these questions have not been answered for me um it's just not that simple to say yeah it fits so that's all I have to say see I I'm with you on the traffic on the road I don't um I don't know if that has been thoroughly thought through but it is pretty busy right now and with coming out of loves and going I'd like us I'd like to see kind of a plan in place on how to take care of all the traffic well I think it should have been brought to the Planning Commission all of these details you know I mean otherwise you're just voting blind you don't know what the impact of a business is in the long run it should for example I I remember at different meetings Jim said there's a great deal of Maintenance to the four Wells that that we have uh because we have sandy soil those are continuously the soil is continuously collapsing into the wells so there's m M there so what is this extra draw on our water going to do is that going to increase their work so all of these questions are not answered for me and maybe it isn't my um responsibility to be concerned about it but I still live here and um it is a major concern for me the pollution and the extra expense to the city the taxpayers well and my my concern with the traffic is not just cars I know a lot of F I have family and I know a lot of truck drivers and they're like oh great A Truck Wash so they're all getting excited to go to the truck wash and it's traffic that is new traffic coming in and not just what's at loves or whatever um so you know my brother's like oh I was up in your area yesterday and I was like oh okay it comes up once in a while but he's like if there's a truck wash I'm coming up more often and I'm so I think there's a potential for a lot of new traffic to come in on the road Adam chair may I speak thank you you may uh but Jack what is the rating isn't that a 10 ton road or a 20ton road or whatever it's a 10ton road that's the highest standard that we have and it's to accommodate heavy truck traffic and you know if you think about it 50 extra trucks a day is it's an increase but it's not a huge increase it's not like you're going to have two or three 4 or 500 so I think the the truck load on there at that 50 unit per day is very reasonable and the road should support that I respect that but I also know that a few years ago a business went in that oh it wasn't going to really the traffic wasn't going to matter and there's a lot more traffic on Lake Drive coming between the 235s I mean I used to come out of my street and be be able to get on Lake Drive not a problem now sometimes I sit there for 10 minutes because there's so much truck traffic on top of the car traffic so I just want to put that out there that we maybe look at it you know after a year and see what's going on because I don't you know there's been how long has that business been there and it's been miserable and I don't even live by it I just have to go out on the Lake Drive and there's a ton of extra traffic but I think that's the magic of Hornsby Street it's a commercial okay a Commercial Street and of course there'll be more traffic I'll be in there washing everything have to but I just think maybe the tra at the stop like getting back out we may need to cuz you got cars coming out of loves to yep and you can get backed up at that turn light MH I I would suspect though that you know you're going to have more traffic at the intersection for loves if you just average it out say over a 12-hour day I don't know what their total operating hour will be but that's just four trucks an hour that's not not very heavy could get higher of course but uh based on what their projections are for now that would be like a truck coming in out 15 minutes of course we know it'll probably be peak times but just as an average that's what it would work out to let me I ask how how long does it take to wash a semi 15 and 20 minutes yeah and the same with an RV roughly yeah I mean essentially so the automatic Bay and the manual Bay are pretty close to the same time frames yeah so 15 20 minutes per per per wash correct so as far as additional truck traffic we kind of touched on this at at the last meeting um your target is is the Over The Road Trucker is it not not the not necessarily the local fleets um either way I'm sure you'll take any of them but of course the idea and obviously the location um next to the current lo love that was built is essentially the people that are there for their overnights correct and that lot he come over so the idea that we're adding additional traffic to what's already at loves I ideally if if there's additional traffic of if somebody's coming up obviously the Interstate 35 they're not stopping at loves but they do know that there's a truck wash there that would be yes that would be additional traffic and that's not a highly TR tra traveled truck lane I mean it ends at Superior Wisconsin so it's not like 94 and then local fleets do local fleets tend to wash trucks at their own site with portable truck washes and I mean are you thinking about that so I don't know the answer to that obviously James is not here but my assumption is that most local if they're in their local area they're probably going to wash at their own Hub right so we won't facilitate going to a truck wash to take care and I don't want to I I don't want to Discount anybody's concern about additional truck traffic I think that's valid but I'm concerned that we're overreacting to the amount of additional truck traffic certainly we talked about uh at the last meeting the truck traffic Crossing from loves and making a left-hand turn and the time it takes for a a long semi to make that uh uh intersection there was was a a point of concern um but I think the truck traffic itself the additional truck traffic itself we may be a overreacting a little bit I also agree with you Barb too um but also semi trcks are now low sulfur fuel so that pollutant is becoming less and there's the big push moving into even electric um and you could probably talk about that more intelligently than I can um so uh I I I I don't think we're going to have a big pollution problem due to additional diesel semi trucks no and I'm just saying maybe it's something that in a year you look at because my brother has his own trucking company and he drives for of the plant and he doesn't have a hub to wash his truck and a lot of the guys that drive for them are Independents and don't have a hub they take their trucks home and so the fact that they don't have to go home and try to wash their truck is very appealing to them so there is that the independence and then there're the ones that have a hub to go to um so I just think that we can you know I'm all for it cuz there's not one around um and I think it's going to be a great business for our community I just want to in you know kind of put it out there that in a year we kind of re-evaluate the traffic flow because I I mean I don't go to loves I'll tell you that because I don't like trying to get out and then having to sit at the light to turn well and and I agree with you cuz I have a very conscientious 17-year-old son that every time his little 12T B 12T boat seems to be running low on oil I have to take it up to the boat dealer so I've been up there a lot thank God I have a conscientious 17-year-old and it's not uncommon to have to wait for a truck to pull out of gloves and and I guess my point is is we're already dealing with that now to say that this is going to have a huge impact on that truck traffic up there it will definitely have an impact on it but but I don't think it's going to have as big of an impact as we're worried about you know and the other thing too is remember truck drivers are bound by how when and how long they can operate their truck so it's not like you and I jumping in our car and running up to you know the car wash on Broadway in Forest Lake they're limited on when they noted at the last session right that truck drivers don't wait around to get their truck washed and if four four trucks yeah per hour go through that's that's a minimal increase in traffic a very minimal amount semi trucks aren't going to wait but the people that are uh hauling for like asphalt they'll sit and wait cuz they don't want to do it at home and they're not bound to you know they have their time they're not making a log and stuff like that like the semi trucks are I'm just saying we are going to have increased traffic and that's what we're here to discuss and I'm okay with doing this I just want to say in a year maybe it gets re-evaluated to see if there's something that we need to do with widening the road or something with the turn lane um excuse to help accommodate the res it's going to accommodate trucks but we have a lot of residents that go to loves and sit there and try to get out and I I just want to see it flow a little better so can you make a suggestion that in a year somebody checks up on it yeah we could have our compliance officer check up on it in a year I may I I have a couple of things I just want to bring up um so I think Robin you might have brought up the question about the stacking you know how many will be in line and we we brought that up at the council meeting and Dean no actually I think it was uh Ken they they went back and looked and it was actually in their application so I think they have enough space on site for like 10 correct so I think that's that was to me seemed like a really valid concern but it seems like the design is is adequate to to deal with that so I I didn't know it wasn't super easy to find so I I just wanted to bring that up because it it was something we discussed at the council meeting um to Barb's concern about the water the staff needs to have an analysis of that and I agree with her that you can't really approve this until you know that I mean we we have spent time talking about do we need a water tower in the future and we've got Jim talking about the synchronization of the pumps and all that kind of stuff so I think there just needs to be some information provided about what this how this fits into that whole process and I think everybody would feel a lot more comfortable if we if we had that information from the staff so I'm I'm tasking you guys to do that I don't think that's the the applicants uh I mean they provide the numbers you guys get somebody to Crunch them and tell us how that's going to fit in I mean when I hear Jim say that when running Asus fills up their water tank it creates problems that makes me think well this is going to be a lot more than that so we we need some we need some information there and then um one other thought is that when loves went in there there was a traffic study done dig that out because I think that can address some of the concerns that um people have had about the number of tra you know the number of of trucks and the backing up and all that kind of stuff I think that might be helpful information and then the last thing again to Barb's um point about the number of of you know big heavy trucks on that road when we were going through the process of well before I was on Council and the former Council was looking at the asphalt plant there was an analysis that can be done calculating eel we learned about eil during that whole thing so basically it's taking you know there's there's uh a calculation that you can do based on the number of axles that a truck has and it basically equates that to the number of cars that can you know if you have a truck with like a semi- that's equal to X number of cars and you can calculate what the wear and tear on the road is and we actually did that for the asphalt plant and we could do that for this too so that again it's information that I think might um set some Minds at ease so if you don't have that I can certainly give you what what was used during that time because that was part of um it was part of our argument about before that road was actually made to 10 ton standard what that was going to do to it thanks so this is Rob I have a few things so kind of playing off of what Janet was talking about with with our whale houses right now and and maybe the Planning Commission don't know that but we've had to rebuild uh a well pump house we've had pump issues in the last few years we're looking at possibly having to put a water tower in I think this is going to amplify that excessively with the with the excessive water use like Janet's talking about they fill up a pump truck just to water the track and it's it's causing issues to our system so we're looking at no you know no disrespect or anything but if we bring in this extra water source right that they're drawing all this water that might push the city and the taxpayers forcing them to have to pay for a water tower that they wouldn't have had to pay for previous to this thing happening right so it's things we got to think about a water tower is a couple million dollars plus I think we're still looking into studies on that so um as far as the traffic goes I do think it's an issue if we thought some on the council thought it was an issue on Lake Drive why isn't it an issue up by the freeway right um we're worried about truck traffic on Lake Drive and the congestion down there 50 more trucks on top of L's over inflated trucks there's trucks parking on roads there's trucks parking in the middle of the road waiting for a spot what what is what plays in there right um those are the big issues I'm seeing I think it looks like a beautiful building um and I I hope we can make it work um just the traffic issues is what I'm seeing there's not a lot of I don't know that there's a lot of great use for that sliver it seems like you drew drew it up properly to to get people in and out it's just how do you control that congestion right in front of loves right cuz those trucks are going to be coming out as others are coming in but maybe maybe you're fortunate enough they're leaving loves to go there before they get back on the freeway so um just a couple concerns I had um and what else I think that is it for now Madam chair yes Mr Mayor so who finds this information Dean is it you or is it Elanor to assuage the fears I think a lot of the requests for this information should come from the applicant okay because they're the ones that are going to be uh supplying that for us if the city does it then we should set up some kind of an escrow to draw from because we'll have to engage the services of city engineer near on some of this and may I ask applicants is do you recycle the water or is it all fresh how does that work so we have the option of doing both um at the previous meeting we discussed um pending what met Council decides of doing a research system to reduce our use of water to eliminate sack credits that was one option that we were going to consider for cost and how much water does anybody know roughly does it take to wash a truck 5 gallons or 5,000 gallons or what so it was 60 at a maximum for a couple minutes on their high pressure system so we designed the system for a 3-in water M for 200 gallons per minute feating to the plant for unacceptable I'm sorry for acceptable loss on the on the site so that won't have any stagnant water so it won't just be sitting in the pipe that could be used obviously through the process so if it sounds like if there's too much water being drawn into the facility going to a research system and again we can provide those calculations because we'll have to do it anyways for met Council we can provide that and that would eliminate some of your water usage that we're going to be drawing in and this is Barb again yeah my point is that all of this information should have been presented before it was even brought to the Planning Commission what is this due to the water pressure in the area and uh to me all of these statistics should have been presented before it came before the Planning Commission that's just my opinion so we would need information regarding what the current Force main is providing for PSI and then obviously allowing us to draw off of that which again if your pumps are at 20% capacity what would that have to bump your pumps up in your V your uh vfds to get your pumps to increase to offset that we're not experts that's why we need expert right and we we would need to know that from your city engineer of what allowable water you can provide us and at what rate of flow is kind of what you're trying to find but the city engineer should be able to that correct or your engineer should Supply it to us yeah that's that's something we'd have to get some of that Base information to them but then with that then they'd have to do the analyzation and I agree there was a bit of Hysteria Rob in the spring about water this and water that so everybody has shut their sprinklers off because it rains every 3 days in Columbus this year so the water usage has dropped to 10% of what it was last year when it didn't rain so you know how how panicked we want to be I think I think mayor if I could I think we're fortunate this year but last year you know uh the city of bla had to pay out because they D dried up everyone's a good portion of private Wells right we start doing that kind of stuff but we so far away from Blain in the public hearing minutes it says 24,000 gallons a day that was based off of 24 hours a day operation right that's that council is going to credit use our sack credits for 24-Hour use that's not actual use of the site that's what they're going to say we can use okay so how much of that say it's 24,000 gallons cuz you're open 24 hours a day how much every day is recycled or is that new water you're going to be taking every day so if you do if you go to a a recirculation system you're actually recirculating 80% of your water 80% so all that essentially gets screened out so all the grit everything goes into a a tank okay remaining water uh basically nonpotable at that point goes into a reserch system that runs back through and then can be reused through the car wash or truck wash okay and then your hydr vacing the contents that are left behind that recycled water that's correct so those tanks will get cleaned out on a daily weekly whatever basis there's a float in there that obviously lets you know the levels and all that and that gets brought out to a facility that obviously gets disposed per EPA requirement correct and is that financially comparable for you guys so you put in straight through system or you put in the recycle so obviously the biggest thing is what the city has available for water dictates the design of what you build your car wash for or truck wash so if you have the ability to give us a 3-in line 200 gallons of minute we can use that and obviously everything else will get discharged back into your sanitary system after running through the Trap mhm if there's not that much water available or we need to make an adjustment based on your well situation then we would make that adjustment go to a reserch system to limit as much water as we're taking from the city but that water would still get reused for the most part and then obviously more water will still get discharged back into the San well that sounds good to me you're wasting less water and getting the job done so again Dean do you have anything to add yeah sorry madam chair Madam chair yeah Dean do you want to weigh in on anything what have you seen around the world here greetings um first of all I've heard comments about tax implications you're you're operating Enterprise districts for your sewer and water system and so all of the expenditures all of the income are all dedicated to the users it's not an obligation of the city as a whole so I I think you need to understand that the specific questions about water usage do need to come from the city public works the the engineer um I I I can't comment on those that's that's not a planning issue um since your sewer and water district was established 20 some years ago uh there have been discussions about the need for a water tower sometimes a large water user like this ends up um being a winner for the community because the amount of usage is really going to help that Enterprise fund and and pay for a better storage system once you have more storage in place you're not going to have the types of U delays in water usage that you have now with such a small storage system um the the timing for you to get this information again is something that really needs to be dictated by the city engineer and your Public Works director um we only need to be conscious here of your 60-day deadline which I see by the staff report is the end of September it it it would allow you to attempt to get a response uh for the Planning Commission at its next meeting and a recommendation to the council and it would be before the 60-day but you also can extend your 60-day deadline appropriately so I don't know if that answered all your questions but um maybe that helps okay soe you had a question yep unless you had a response Elanor first okay um so this is Sue most of my concerns were about water which have already been addressed um but one step further is there a storm water management plan yes it's included in the application okay I didn't see it anywhere yeah there is there's two bio Retention Ponds but an actual storm water management plan yeah it's a which is a document second [Applause] here I do have an answer for that I don't know if it was completed included in the packet the entirety of the storm water management plan I can send that out to everybody um that was submitted to Rice Creek Watershed and they are having their um final decision uh their cap rck cap Rock meeting on all of those submittals um next week on September 11th to have that approved but I can send you that okay that would be great thank you yes I don't have it in my pocket there's I think those were I mean all the questions that came through tonight are good questions and need to be addressed um but just for my own opinion are are that area is I mean you meet the qualifications we we put it as a use that we could have a truck wash so I mean if you're meeting all the requirements then you know we shouldn't have any issues I i' just like to say one thing one more thing about the water our issue is not the capacity or the production of the water it's the storage that we have if we had an ample storage facility now you can pump water in that storage facility at off peak hours during the night when there's little or no use it would have less disruptions on the system as far as having some things that uh we currently experience at this time so you know one of these days and it may be next year and it may be five or 10 years we are going to have to have a water tank here yeah I'm glad you brought that up because I do remember when we went through that process that it was not a capacity issue it's a pump issue it's a storage issue yep so that's more City council issue than his yes but I think I think in order I mean this this business and I'm for it too so don't misunderstand we just need to figure out how this works because it will put a strain on the current system and I need your staff to tell us how much of a strain that is and then we can make an informed decision and I think that you know if it pushes a date forward for having a store solution then we need to know that so again it's not necessarily A showstopper but information is required and I I agree with um Barb I mean that there should have been something kind of addressing that because that's a big deal you can't just like not look and go okay we're going to improve it and we'll figure it out later exactly well we do have new businesses going in where the exercise guy never used the water but now our pause will be and the veterinary clinic is across the highway so that'll be so there are new businesses coming in where I would have liked to seen the usage and how much and all that from Public Works maybe I got to say something here only because it's not your project I mean your problem it was our problem MH we knew this before you came in in and I it had to be it has to be addressed mhm yeah so I just want you to understand I thank you for applying and I hope we can get this going but it's our issue with the water we got to deliver it to you and somehow I know we all are afraid of a water tower and the cost and stuff like that but it's not going away you know it's going to eventually bite Us in the butt if we don't get on it so I mean even the traffic issue it's not your issue it's the city's issue to keep on top of and take care of so well and I think that's where having the traffic study that was done will reassure you because I think it was pretty well documented that even with loves and the additional we were that that interchange was designed to handle way more than what's going through right now and still be able to maintain flow so yeah and I don't think we can I mean I probably could I'm not going to put in there that you have to put a sprinkler system in I'm just going to make a nice suggestion that it would be nice to keep everything green and growing so want to add more water to the whole yeah that's more water yeah I do cuz then the you know it'll kind of keep things going any other discussion from the Planning Commission members I have one question this this is related to the footprint of the building and I'm just curious as why it's a parallelogram shape instead of a or Square rectangle uh so long short answer is uh it's something little more out of the box from a design standpoint um to keep it more of a more of a trapezoid or parallelogram um gives it more character especially with an orop canopy and then obviously we made the adjustments so that you're obviously driving into the base straight but if you're looking at the building from a certain angle it looks like it's a trapezoid or parallelogram um so it's it's more of a a architectural feature per se than uh actual uh use so and anybody can build a pre-cast building you see them all over I94 Corridor and even you know you know as you're going towards Ramsey and things like that anybody can pop up a pre-cast building but when we were working with the clients here on the design we wanted to do something a little bit more you know that will really be a showstopper that would literally look like not just a a standard block building and give it some architectural features and it didn't really add that much to the cost to do it thank you building does look nice really does so as far as the planning Comm Elanor I was probably going to say the same thing as you um but I'm just going to bring it up um there seems to be quite a few other things that we want to address so you can make a motion to either recommend this to City Council next week or we can um come back on the 18th at the next Planning Commission meeting with hopefully some more of these um questions answered and have another discussion um that would fit within the 60-day frame we wouldn't need to extend it so let's go down Scott are you do you want to wait two weeks and get you need a motion for that no I'm just taking a feel of okay yeah I think we need to wait okay this is far I feel we need to wait I'm indifferent about it I I I mean I understand the the concerns um but I also am concerned that they feel more a part of what we're questioning then they probably should have to feel nervousness about I that's just how I feel how I would feel I would feel a little nervous with some of these questions coming up for the Planning Commission now after we've already had one meeting with them and suddenly we're coming up with a whole bunch of new questions that they don't have to have the answers well and that's that's that's my yeah and this is the policy the public hearing happens and then this is where we do our discussion unfortunately and um but it's also a thing of we need more information when we get our our packet and um so it's not by any means anything to do with you guys um you it fits it's just as a Planning Commission we need to have information to um be able to give recommendations to the Council of what to look for as far as the traffic study or the water issue um so what we do is we either recommend to approve or disapprove and then it's up to them I'd feel better recommending to approve after I see all the information yeah we I agree with you and I think the water issue is some pretty far-reaching implications for for the people of Columbus for that matter for all of us so yes so need some time is there a motion to bring the discussion back up at our September 18th meeting I'll make the motion to bring it back up on September 18th meeting is there a second this is barbell second then okay motion's been made and second I'll call for the vote Scott I Barb I Robin I Lyn I so we will in two weeks we have our next Planning Commission meeting on the 18th 6:00 here we'll look for more information maybe just a public the traffic study that was done when loves went in a public works study so that we can make the recommendation to the council if you can get me some information on on your water needs Peak demands what your max flows are and what your anticipated daily usage are then we can get some things to run some analysis to address some of these questions I'm going to write this down here CU we'll come back on the 18th and then the council meets on the 25th so then it'll go to the Council on the 25th so you'll have an answer by the end of the month okay next thank you for coming you thank you thank you um now we get to Dean you're up our uh presentation and discussion of our cannabis ordinance well good evening um you've got a little one-page summary from our first discussion um a month ago and what I would really like to do is just walk down that list and let everyone um respond um and make sure that you have either got consensus or you perhaps change uh some consensus that you may have had I do want to mention um since the time we met last um there was a a a program I don't know if any of you attended a zoom meeting that um the office of cannabis management had right after our last joint meeting but one of the interesting things that uh came out of there and you wouldn't know it unless it came from the office is that there are current caps that means limits on the number of licenses that they are going to consider for four of the um main businesses that are there and I'll I'll just give those to you because it might help um answer some questions you have in terms of how many of these are going to be potentially located here in the Metro Statewide so on and so forth um and it's pretty revealing and the the lowest number the cap for a manufacturer in the state of Minnesota and this initial go around is 24 businesses and Dean before you and I want to keep that 24 manufacturers are going to be selected out of a lottery whether they get 24 or 2400 requests for manufacturing uh cannabis facilities and Dean is that in the state of Minnesota or in E not I wouldn't be in city it's the whole state that's the entire state right now the cap on Manu the number of manufactures is 24 we've got 83 counties if you said um maybe there's uh one that out to go in every County there's not enough to go around it's about one per four counties now all of this is sub to change these numbers are not uh listed in the in any of the statutes uh from the 23 legislative session or this year's legislative session um these are uh things that will ultimately I suspect be spelled out in the rules which I I touched on at the last meeting there was a draft of the rules which provided no direction whatsoever ever for local units of government in other words for us that may have questions about procedures uh there there was really no direction or help it focused on uh the different business types and information that they may be obligated to provide and so forth so right now they have placed a cap on the number of um manufacturers that they will consider licensing coming out of the shoot in early sometime uh the year 2025 at 24 they've put a cap on cultivators at 50 and again this is Statewide they have put a cap on meso businesses at 100 and they've put a camp on retailers at 100 50 and I think any of us might have assumed that gee there there might be one or two applications per City or at least cities that have um a regional draw or poll uh for retail type business activity um and that could be you know larger regions like um Rochester duth or or even St Cloud or it might be more r Ral areas um like wiri that might serve a very large geographic area but a small population area if you've got 150 retailers spread out through the state there's going to be a lot of competition and again these are entered in a lottery and I don't I don't know the process other than all of the business applicants have to submit licens information to the state uh if they meet certain State requirements then they submit locations for specific businesses and then they are ultimately uh entered into this uh in this instance with a low number of uh businesses that have caps placed on them uh they're going to go into a lottery system and it would be after that Lottery that communities like uh Columbus would end up receiving uh a request perhaps for one of these businesses that made it through the lottery system um and we have to be ready to say it complies with our particular ordinance requirements the licenses that don't have any uh in in include uh a micro business which I know we talked about wholesale business Transporters testing business the medical facilities uh delivery business and and so there are a number more that aren't subject to current caps but they will all uh be based upon going through an initial vetting system yet to be clearly understood by the state before they would notify any local unit of government that there is a business uh that would like to locate in our community so I just I wanted to start with that because that information was not available previously uh there were only a couple of other clarifications um or even questions I should say for clarifications that came out of that particular presentation um and there remain a number of questions um and I'll talk about a couple of these uh that I don't find answers to ultimately I'm going to prepare a laundry list of what are really um some more legal questions we'll pass those on to the City attorney and let them comment uh I don't know the time frame or the basis for which they make uh certain decisions but I'll I'll give you an example and we talked about this at our first meeting uh the statute are very clear it says once there is an acceptable application for one of these businesses to the state they then refer those to the local unit for uh the local unit to certify that that registration or the state license meets our requirements and we have to do that in 30 days well my my my original concern and comment and this did come up at the meeting uh how can we be doing this if in fact we're issuing uh a conditional use permit which the majority of cities would be doing for most of these facilities uh and we have by Statute an allowable 60 or 120 day review period uh I went through since our meeting and and after this Workshop that was held and I reread the statutes and it doesn't say anything about a local process other than certifying to the state within 30 days that they meet our requirements and so this this is one of the bigger primary questions um that I will have on a list within the next couple of weeks to give our attorneys and try and find out um from them what process we're going to get these answers or whether they have information already that uh I'm not find finding it's extremely difficult to make contact with anybody at the office of cannabis management uh you you basically submit an an email request and somebody may get back with an answer to you they don't publish a phone number anywhere that I have found anywhere uh that allows you to make personal contact with any of the staff and so it's it's a little frustrating and we knew this going in and I think I cautioned at the last meeting that there are a lot of moving targets and we're going to have to uh we're going to have to be prepared to make a lot of final decisions perhaps at the end of the process one of the other bigger uh questions I've had and I don't again find this in my third or fourth review of the actual statutes I don't see any clarification in these Draft rules which indicate whether we as a city can require that the location of an event license if you remember of remember us talking these at the last meeting uh these are maximum 4 Day events um that if someone gets a license as an event organizer uh can submit to a local community and request um that a uh a permit be issued for an event and my question is can these be or should they be restricted to other licensed facilities so if we have a licensed retailer if we had a meso business or a micro business um a manufacturer or a wholesaler those that are involved with the primary uh activity associated with ultimate retail can we restrict these businesses to be located at one of those licensed facilities well if we have none licensed in our community and the state says we must allow an event my question then becomes if it's not to be held at an existing licensed facility in the community what requirements can we hold is this a circus tent uh is is it like what you used to have on uh or can this simply be required to be located U within an existing facility that meets all existing uh security requirements lighting advertising and so forth there there's there's no answer and this will be on another of my list uh to give the attorneys for problems that I've encountered and I'm I'm assuming that they're having some contact with uh either clients that are looking to establish businesses or perhaps other communities like Columbus and and are encountering similar questions but I want to try and complete a list as best I can and then forward that to the City attorney so with that um kind of an introduction um I'd like to go down the list in that brief memo that I had and uh just walk through um some of the consensus that appeared to be reached at the last meeting and put it out for your debate and discussion and if there is consensus we'll move on if there isn't uh we'll talk about it the first one that I noted was that you didn't want um outdoor cultivation certainly not in the rural residential district you'd prefer not to have outdoor cultivation anywhere uh but if we were obligated to do that uh restricted to those light industri or general business districts in part that's because these do have to be secured with fencing with lighting other things which are not compatible certainly with your rural residential district um but would be more consistent with one or more of the um industrial districts so uh with that is there any debate discussion uh or are are we on the same page with that particular item we're good yeah I think that's good Y no change no change we're good on that one I'm not hearing anything good um we talked about the number of retail licenses at the last meeting and and part of that discussion was my description that if we as a community under 12,000 500 population wanted to use that as our ceiling um by law we only have to allow one retail facility we can't pick what that is whether it's a retail store uh or whether it is a meso business that has a retail license or a micro business that may have a retail license or a manufacturer or a wholesaler that may have a retail business but if you decided that there is any particular business currently located in the community that may be interested in this the way that you are allowed by law to select them if there's competition is to go on a first come first serve basis or you would go on a lottery basis um I haven't seen um an expansion of options Beyond those and so if you had a local business that you knew was very interested in this but they're going to be in heavy competition and they first have to get uh certified uh most likely through um a process at the state before it would even come to the city do you want to open that up to more than one that the state requires and you have the option you could have unlimited number of retail or you can restrict it to one so at the last meeting there seemed to be consensus I won't say it was unanimous there was at least one uh descent in that discussion and uh my notes indicated that you ended up with uh General consensus on three licenses so let's talk about that Dean can you hear us yes okay so this is Janet I the cap information is really helpful um I think I mean I'm still with let's just stick with one I I get what you're saying there's going to be a lot of competition the likelihood that we would even get one is pretty small I just feel like the the less amount of time we can spend on this until things get sorted out that makes the most sense to me it's it's not a it's not I don't think it's going to be a big uh Revenue generator for for us I don't think it fits into what our vision for Columbus should be I get that we have to um accommodate what the state says we have to accommodate but I I I think one meets that and and if you know we we we were trying to get a um a meeting set up with you know one of the businesses that we thought might be interested and that didn't happen but I mean this is this probably isn't going to go away so if they don't make it on the first round I'm sure they'll increase the number or whatever I I'm just I'm not worried about I'm not worried about that so my I'm I still stick with one and this is Sue I still stick but it did bring up a question so if we did say one say everybody voted oh let's just have one we can change that to more at any time or in the next year do you know or do if we say three we stick with three that falls in the category of unclear I'm assuming virtually at any time uh you could change that but I I can't answer that okay then I would say let's stick with three considering that was a consensus before if it still is now Mrs Rob I'd say three or more like you were saying s can someone just explain because I'm not getting it why three it's to leave your options open what but what are the options because it has have to go down the road later and say oh we got to increase it one and then a year later oh we got to increase it one this just opens it makes it easier the chances of us even having three applications or anything are pretty slim I believe that's my opinion and I think also area for anybody to have a especially a retail business right and especially what dean explained that it's not it it would H it would apply to a retail or a micro business or you listed a couple other ones so what happens if we got one that was not not a regular retail but like a micro business and then somebody really wanted to put up a regular retail business and they couldn't because the license was already taken by uh micro and I think that would be um restricting businesses I'm all for the three cuz I'm with Robin I just don't see is going to be the area that they I can see more Lake Drive with green houses than I can retail so so the reason I'm I'm asking the question is if if Dean is correct and there's a small likelihood that we're going to get an application and if we do we might get one if your concern is that what if that one goes to you know uh someone that we'd prefer that it went somewhere else if you're not going to get more than one that's going to happen regardless of the number that you choose right and and I'm just again I'm just trying to limit the amount of time we spend and um discussing it cuz I think you know one of the things that came up last time too was how the city numbers and the county numbers mesh and I believe I I I've read a lot of stuff so I might be wrong about this but I think it was on that that webinar that you talked that you referenced earlier so an NOA if an NOA County meets their quota we won't get anymore and you've got Fridley you've got Columbia Heights you've got you know places that have as Dean had said earlier existing vacant buildings which is what people will want to put these things in they don't want to have to build something so I I just think the you know the likelihood that it's going to come here is small and the problem about first come first serve is going to exist whether we have one or three and so it just makes sense to me to just limit the amount of time that we spend on this and just say we'll stick with one and this is no big deal if you if you decided that things are going good and you wanted to open it up to more than that if the law in the state allows us to stick with one is actually a change if we're going to stick with something we stick with the three that we decided on the last meeting you're ready yeah we could take a vote Robin okay start voting start voting wait before we take a vote I have a question so I I'm I'm kind of confused you're talking about Janet saving time is that the big issue we're we're spending a lot of time talking about this and it's probably a moot point so I would say meet the meet the letter of the law and let them sort things out and then when we know more information we can more you know kind kind of like we just talked about with the information that we had with this truck wash I mean it's hard to it's hard to make decisions about things when you don't have good complete information but we we have to we have to legally comply with this so I my recommendation is meet what we have to legally comply with don't spend a lot of time on it because it's going to change 15 times in the next whatever and when things get you know when the dust settles then we can be more intentional about what we really want in Columbus and again I'm not saying this cuz I'm against it cuz I'm not I my I guess my question Maybe now I should come back with what's the matter with three I mean I mean would we only allow one liquor store in Columbus would if we were at a liquor store would we only allow one and let them control the market right CU that's what's going to happen they're going to jack their rates up well I'm just looking at because they know they got the market but but I see Janet's point and I think that's a valid point unlike a liquor stores which have been around legal for years even the even no matter what side you fall on this it's all an unknown this has been being referred to as the Great American experiment right now right so Janet's right we don't know what's going to happen with cannabis in the future and if you were on that webinar clearly the state agency that's in charge of it isn't even fully formed yet it doesn't know um you know I was on that webinar and you know uh The General Counsel put on a good presentation but then when he was asked questions he had a hard time answering some of them so over if we have an overabundance of caution until this great experiment plays out then we can come back and we know where we stand we know what's going to happen um we've got a little bit more firm ground to stand on with all these types of businesses and what they're going to look like then we can make a more informed decision if we want to add three in the future I could go either way but I understand that if if you I think that's what you're saying is hey let's let's see what happens and let let this play out yeah and kind of perception than it is anything else I really think it will play out the way it plays out based done because I I agree that that would make sense except what if we did have to right away I don't think that's going to happen but if we did we're we're kind of out of luck we have to we might be missing out on something so why why not why not three I mean I I really don't see I think it's a bigger risk to go with one than three so so part of what I also think about and again Dean weigh in if I'm if I'm thinking about this incorrectly but you know whether you say one or three right you you come up with whatever the rules are going to be and now the state changes those so now we have to go and change our rules rules then we then they change them again and we have to change our rules again so it it's harder to do that when you've got several of these things I I just think you're kind of making a statement with one to say we're going to do this because we have to but we really don't want to dive deep into this until you guys get your your act together that that's more my that's more my uh philosophy whether or not it practically plays out I I think we're all in agreement likely we won't get in and I'm just looking at it let's set a number so that it can it's probably going to change cuz not everything is set in stone yet and we can revisit but just to get through the process I that's what we did at the last meeting was just set it out there so Robin what do you comfortable I I guess I feel is I have no problem having having three I don't think they're going to be used um and it just solves us from having to go like you say suddenly we get two businesses right away that want in and we can't accommodate them except for the fact that we said we could only have one license and I would hate to see that happen and three doesn't mean we give out three license it just says we can if we so choose to give out three licens it doesn't make it a mandatory thing to do that that's my opinion Ron well is that true yeah if we have three licenses available and someone applies and meets the criteria we then cannot deny them right right Dean that is correct so if you if you in this process had three credible uh registrations submitted to you by the state and you said you would take three you're going to take them all you can't you can't pick and choose at that point and it doesn't have to be a license from somebody in the state so we could get somebody from Colorado coming in want and a license in our city and and opening up a business as well that is true and 40 yeah 40% of the of the applications for the disadvantage are from out of state but wouldn't they have to go through the state of Minnesota for license they do but they're they're so we're not supporting local business is the point you're supporting an out ofate business okay but that didn't that just didn't make sense so saying that we would have to accept somebody I mean they still have to go through the state process so it's kind of a moot point well it's a it's a moot point but I've I think get me wrong if I'm wrong on this but I think there was more people out of state applied for licenses than inate true and I mean it was amazing the number not that it makes it doesn't affect our one or three no yeah that's that's kind of what we're looking for actually give it a I I think it would be more favorable to have three because if we had somebody from out of state and somebody from Columbus or inst State then at least we can accommodate both and not just the one from Colorado or wherever well I think it is harder I mean we have some businesses in Columbus that the corporate is out of state and correct me if I'm wrong but it's harder to deal with them because the people that make the decision are not here locally you have to try to find them and come and you know coordinate with them and so I mean if there if we ended up with three that were out of state that could be a little bit harder for for the staff I think it's just good we got a CL clarification if you say that you'll take three and you got three you got to take them okay so you still vote so are you still voting for three robin yes Ron one or three you know I don't think it really makes a difference three Sue three three uh Madam chair what if we split the difference and just do two no Peacemaker the peace the middle child Peacemaker one and a half huh okay okay so you got four at three I'll go with Janet on one Barb one Janet one a I'm the new guy come on um it's okay it's okay you're not the tiebreaker if you go with one yeah and Dean we can change this before January 31st correct before December 31st yes yeah I I honestly I think for now until we find more I'm more comfortable with one with one okay now you're the tie bre yeah Rob three okay three it is oh three it is okay these are all pure policy decisions you're you're all the ones that are going to decide this um and there is a lot of time between now and the end of the year to make changes and and tweak this information the the third category we had a long discussion about um the Lake Drive zoning districts and there were a lot of uh business options that were listed as being satisfactory only one of those was questioned and that is based upon uh any extraordinary demands for sewer and water in manufacturing in in particular if waste disposal is an issue in uh a private Sewer District so uh comments or debates about Lake Drive Madam chair yes Mr Mayor uh Dean I've been thinking if we would we have to do this i' by state law I don't believe it's going to be a Big Boon to the city tax-wise I don't think it's a boon for the people who are smoking the pot if we push everybody over to the freeway Corridor where there's sewer and water we would eliminate the septic tank and private well issue and the pollution of washing marijuana leaves or whatever they do and that would also mean that people who are if you're going to come in and build a 200,000 ft brick building to grow your pot inside and process it or whatever they're going to do it has to be somebody who's going to really contribute to the tax base because the property is more expensive in the freeway quarter and the design standards are higher and that would kind of move it away from our community a little bit and and hopefully uh provides some Financial relief for the city anybody else just a thought elanar did you want to share what you heard from Chris when you asked him the question about the private septic and yep so I did speak briefly with our septic official Chris about um these concerns with the septic system rules there are he talked to the university um and relayed some information back to me the main concerns that they have are in manufacturing um there are septic systems that are being designed and built to deal with them with our um high water table it becomes a little bit difficult to do those more intensive um septic systems and so limiting at least manufacturing to sewer and water seems like a good idea from his perspective just to avoid those more complicated issues and he's [Music] like um he did say that you know depending on what they're making it might be easier to do it when on septic but it might be completely impr practical to do it on septic so just moving all of them over is an option for manufacturing from his [Music] perspective so are we saying then that we want to keep this uh in the freeway district is is that gist that I'm getting from this that's my gist or my option yep at least and that was just the manufacturing huh that was just the manufacturing moving it over to the freeway District or was it all 11 I was think well is manufacturing growing indoors or is that a yeah well no that's cultivation cultivation yeah okay so cultivation I would do I would do manufacturing and our pot shops would all be on that District I believe or I'm thinking yeah micro temporary events and in my mind that will create bigger buildings better buildings and better tax base for the city so you're saying manufacturing add that to the move cultivating cating cultivation manufacturing and not just to the retail but on they could go down West Freeway driver Hornsby Street mhm and put up a big building and grow pot definitely be a bigger tax base there well that's and You' be collecting money sewer and water well yeah cuz we're going to have a sewer and water problem just like with the other ones so you want get our water tower sooner [Laughter] than anybody else sorry that's okay Rob no ma' so to clarify what I'm hearing um just moving indoor cultivation and Manufacturing out of Lake Drive and limiting that to the light industrial and general business districts that um also include includes like Highway commercial and our general business up by The Interchange where we had them um listed currently was in the light industrial General business and then along Long Lake Drive do we want to start including them allowed over by the interchange um those types of businesses as well well it's just like a warehouse really I don't like occupation home oh homes same is it at the same time but they can have events they're going to be they're going to be more like a greenhouse that's what I thought post form building or anything they're going to be a greenhouse if you ever go down to Iowa they got a lot of those I thought what we talked about last time is that correct me if I'm wrong didn't we say no green houses no hoop buildings nothing if they're growing it has to be in like a tip up isn't that what we said last time Dean um we talked about the hoop houses we didn't necessarily specify a complete tip up I think anybody that's doing indor cultivation is going to want uh glass roof and whatever combination allows for a certain amount of direct light in addition to control lighting uh but ultimately you're going to make that decision what it is but you're right that we we said you know no no little seasonal uh greenhouse building it's it's it's got to be something what substantial and I think Rob had mentioned at the last meeting and most of my sources that I've been in contact with have indicated uh you know it's kind of a romantic 1960s hippie thing that maybe we could grow this Outdoors nobody's in any of these competitive markets nobody's growing anything outdoors other than hemp and um I I I suspect uh the other thing that's going to dictate most of these businesses is having existing brick and mortar uh available and our community doesn't have any of those facilities to speak of you don't have any vacant properties uh but whether you're in Minneapolis or a lot of the suburbs there's a lot of property on the commercial Market both commercial and and industrial buildings anybody outside of of what I would say to add to your concern or discussion about outof State businesses um you know pot has been legal since 2012 in some states and the businesses that have been successful are the ones that have jumped to other states like Minnesota uh because they know what's required and what's involved but anybody that's going to make an investment in any of these businesses I don't think we're going to see a brand new building being put up for any of these I I certainly could be wrong um but with a lot of existing structure uh available all over the marketplace and this might not be as as U as true in some of the more rural markets but certainly here in the seven County Metro area I think you're going to see all of these facilities including indor covation going into some existing buildings in communities and not starting from scratch that that's that's my gut that shouldn't guide your decisions but um this is this is a big investment and one of the reasons that out ofate businesses are doing it is that they've got their foot in the ground they know what they're doing and they've got investors lined up and they're being successful so if I could go back to Lake Drive do I understand that at least tentatively everything could stay other than uh the cultivation or manufacturing is is that kind of consensus yes y y and then my next question is that either the seight or the CI either one both we don't have that one on our list CI or is it which one is it C well so the east side of Lake Drive is the commercial/industrial and the west side is the c i light so are you talking about both sides of the road for the Lake Drive districts or is it one or the other or do these businesses need to move from one side of the road to the other but all of them could stay on Lake Drive so that's just another clarification that needs to be done ultimately I think it's hard to know because you don't know what these I mean we had lots of discussion about what fits on one side versus the other and we don't know what these businesses require so it's hard to know where to put them well and I think one of the reasons why we talked about not having it on like drive or we didn't think it would uh work is that because of the septic and we don't have City Water and Sewer on either side of Lake Drive so if that was the reason why we were taking it out then it would make sense to do both sides but I think his you take all the businesses out or is it just the manufacturing and the and the uh cultivation yeah I would say just manufacturing cultivation I mean some of these guys do have money and they might put up a building I mean look at the cement factory that wasn't cheap and it's a money [Music] maker yeah the growing the growing uh of cannabis is a very very scientific now it's not throw your seeds in the backyard and see what comes up these are all precise measurements of soil quality fertilizers the right enzymes I mean these these places that grow it are very sophisticated it's it's nothing like you know I have been to one growing area uh building before uh when I was out in Colorado um the amount of equipment is astronomical I was I was totally shocked by how advanced I mean everything is down to the day as to what is going to happen to these plants and what they get nutrients and oxygen and so on and so forth that you know uh I I just feel that most of us really have no clue as to what all is going to entail uh in the manufacturing process so I would agree that you know we we got to have it on both [Music] sides I'd like to just clarifying so a meso business also is allowed to cultivate and manufacture so is that a freeway District only [Music] activity I think you're talking about water use right for the freeway District so it would I don't see practical limitations between uh just a manufacturer or a meso business that is doing manufacturing I I think that they're similar and so if you're not interested in cultivation or manufacturing a meso business is allowed to do both then that should go on the freeway Corridor right right yes that's my question yeah yes I didn't hear what you said Jesse what did you say so then a Mezo should go on the freeway cor let's go around what do you there's SE SE sewer and water mhm water mhm I think they do a lot of recycling of it because if it's a oh absolutely absolutely Hydroponics that's most Hydroponics Hydroponics is how they grow nowadays and you will use the same water over and over and over again until it's time to change to a new fertilizer formula at which case that's the only time that water gets changed out so it isn't a huge water guzzler because like I said they do use that same water and they might use that same water for a few weeks simply because of the nutrients that they have in it and there's there's certain uh growing periods I've been reading up on this there well you got will we be seen an Way by any chance I got to know what's going on I got to know what I'm talking about so you know yes we have uh my wife and I have looked at you know cultivation marijuana and stuff like that and uh it's very specific as to you know literally kind down two weeks uh as to how long it takes to go from a seed to a harvestable plant and during those weeks they are very specific weeks 2 through four you do this always and so you'd have like weeks two through four would use one one batch of water but then weeks 4 through 8 is going to be a different batch of water but it's going to be the same water being used over and over and over again that is what that is what my wife and I got the gist of is you know uh it's Hydroponics is what they use for the most part they don't do soil so it's just W running water over the roots and The Roots taking what they need so it it really isn't as water heavy as you would think it would be so what do you know about growing cucumbers I know a lot about growing a lot of things my wife and I are uh for those of you who've been by our house you can see we have extensive Gardens and and uh so we do do a lot of gardening and so I do have some knowledge but I wanted more true knowledge of the Cannabis business and and what they use so uh I don't think we have to worry about there being a water issue at all on any of these so that goes back to putting it over on the freeway Corridor yeah yeah because you still have you still have to have water you you are going to have waste water at the end of weeks 2 through 4 what are you going to do with that water well it's all full of uh fertilizers and maybe contaminants from the plants I don't know but it's going to have to be processed and I certainly don't want to see something like that just being dumped into our ground we hear enough about medicines in our groundwater and stuff like that I want it treated so yes I believe that they have to be in the freeway District where they can get city sewer and water okay a mount system would grow real good though if you dumped it all in she'd have to mow every week did you get that Dean I'm I first of all I I don't dispute anything that Robins said um I I'm like he I'm reading a a lot of stuff and it tends to get overwhelming the majority of these businesses are doing water reuse uh when you're in certain elements of manufacturing which not only the meso business but the medical uh business do is when um there are introduced uh additives which the state simply says we're we're we're going to monitor we're going to control we we don't know what that is and so if a concern uh whether it's cultivation or manufacturing should be in the uh City's sewer and water district then that would also uh take meso business and medical business out not wholesale not testing not transporter and not delivery are you looking for an answer on medical too I'm I'm I'm waiting for some consensus that for the reasons that you've talked about uh whether it's cultivation or Manufacturing because meso business and medical businesses are allowed to do the same do we move all four of those out of like drive and simply say it's got to go to the Light Industry and general business district we've already got manufacturing and medical there I would agree with that I would I think most of us would agree with that absolutely yes okay so I'm going to cross I'm going to cross those off of my master list um and then I go back to the question is there a difference in your mind about allowing any of these uses in either of our Lake Drive districts can they be in both or should any of these be split out for one reason or another um I personally and I I don't I don't like to try and tip your discussions because this is your policy but uh you've created this um sealight District hopefully to be more compatible with adjacent residential uses and the remaining businesses are going to be not extraordinary outdoor storage uses they're going to be indoor companies uh certainly the wholesale and the testing yes there will be some sort of a truck activity associated with them I don't think you're going to see a transporter out here I don't think you're going to see a but they're also certainly uh compatible with what you may have wanted to achieve in the SE light district and maybe you don't want them in the CI District because that's the more intense that's just part of the debate you should take part in right nowal I think the Light commercial uh District would be best do you mean on Lake Drive right okay is that light it's on the west yep so um that would be the CI light which is this area on the west side of Lake Drive yep everybody agree I'm fine with that I don't know if our business owners or anybody who wants to buy on that other side would question why we would do that you know if somebody came in and we said oh well it's only allow it on this side of the street which I agree I would prefer it on the west side of the street but would somebody coming in to do a business would they would we have a good reason to say why we're not allowing it on the other side probably not just we're trying to we're trying to encourage them to go to the west side but isn't the only difference really is there's buildings over on the West Side already there I mean you get over on the east side I mean on the east side is the buildings the west side doesn't really but there are some homes that are in the business district that could be torn down I'm I'm finding way I don't know I I think stick it on the West side and it's that move along we still don't know all the facts yeah west side west side I don't know I'm going around West Side Dean can I ask a question about the testing um I don't know I don't know what exactly there doing but I'm thinking that most places that do testing of either medical or or um you know no no I'm not I'm just talking about a testing facility that is that is uh testing a product whether it's a medical product or a industrial product or whatever there's there's oftentimes a lot of chemicals and things like that involved so I'm wondering whether or not that is not really compatible in a district that has that does not have sewer and water I I mean again we don't know but I'm thinking maybe that one should be in the freeway District as well until we know more about what they actually do the the other ones are just transport businesses or wholesale those can be on Lake Drive I don't have a problem with that but I'm just a little worried about the testing cuz I I don't a typical testing one I you know you know what the chemicals are you know what there's probably I've experienced I don't know I don't know what this one is so with absence of information I'd put them over in a place where you know that water is going to be treated and and whatever water they need to do their stuff would be more than adequate over there yeah I wish I could I I wish I could shed light I I don't know the extent I I tend to think based on of what I continue to read is that these are fairly uh small and discrete facilities um those that operate a testing facility cannot be a part of or have any ownership in any other business they have to meet um several different types of standards that are listed um in in the statute uh will they use certain products to break down and test to make sure that a percentage or whatever it is they're looking for uh meets a state standard I'm I'm sure they will but I think what you're talking about are relatively small quantities um for testing but I I can't tell you with certainty um that you're going to end up with a 100,000 squ foot building and therefore it ought to be in the freeway I I I can't answer that I I can I can say I I like your point as a very good point about the different chemical and stuff like that they use again it comes down to do you want them putting it into a septic system that goes into our groundwater or would you rather go to a treatment facility plant where some of that is taken out and I would tend to agree with you that uh it should be in the freeway District a testing facility simply for that reason for disposal of water that has been contaminated through chemicals uh again I don't know how they test it either but I'm assuming there's there's chemicals that are going to be involved it's not just a water thing so I would like to see that water uh be treated uh through the Metropolitan yeah I think that's a good question but I it would be nice to know because I don't know that they use chemicals when they're testing how much THC is in something I think that's how they get it out of whatever they're testing so you extract it from leaves or gummies or whatever you use solvents to get it out of there oh okay well if we know that then I agree well I mean I'm just assuming that that's I mean that's how you I know that well I don't think we can assume that's why I was wondering if we could find out can certainly find I just don't want to now we're crossing everything out of the Lake Drive district and we were trying to kind of encourage some of these things so if there's not chemicals then I think we should leave it in because we don't have a we don't have a filtration system right now that's what we were talking about with our uh our water tower and treatment center we don't have a treatment center for water we we can't filter out any of that stuff it's going the Met Council would in the waste water that's where it would get treated so we send all the water from there to the Met Council well that's how it all goes now that's how that's how all of the septics work or all the sewer system will work now well why would we need a treatment system then we we don't need a treatment system what we need is the water to go into the um sewer system into the sewer system that where it does get treated I think soe when you're talking about the treatment they were talking about treating to get rid of the manganes so that's the water that we would get to drink and so the treatment facility might be treating water that before it goes to businesses or household to remove some of the the um minerals or like manganes that they consider too high to be healthy so that I think I suppose it could also they could also require some treatment of some some other substances before it gets to the Met council's facility but I don't know that they do that now do they currently the only thing we do we add a little fluoride little chlorination and a flocculent to help reduce the iron in the water yeah another thing too is if you do get issues in areas where you do have sanitary sewer and the discharge is too hot they can require you to put pre-treatment facilities on there before it discharges into that system to be treated down where the ultimate flow discharges I I think basically what we're trying to decide is where do we want to put a testing facility and I think the General consensus at least as far as I'm concerned is that we want to keep where we already have sewer and water uh so that we don't have to suddenly find out later that oh they're going to be using some some chemical that maybe isn't so great for our our uh ground water ground water thank you um so I I I think we really do need to keep it in the freeway District that's my opinion okay you know what the problem is none of us are biologists or pharmacists so we're trying to you know diagnose something my my wife is uh a bit of an herbalist and essential oil person and so I have watched her extract chemicals from leaves and stuff like that it's not a horrible process it's it's mostly alcohol that is used to extract uh chemicals out of the leaves and whatnot so it's it's not a a terribly poisonous thing that we have to worry about but I think we do want it to go through a sanitary sewer well anything that's more protective that's throughout to go I'm with you I I agree with you an it I mean we don't know what it is so why why take the chance yeah just throw it over there and we run it into the Mississippi think all the Happy Fish PP it over Forest like all right did you get that Dean I have uh wholesale business transporter and delivery remaining in the sealight district the west side of Lake Drive correct and and we'll agree in a moment where to which districts to put those in but I suspect they'll because some of them are already located in the Light Industry and general business that's where they would all go the last question I have here it wasn't on my list per se but uh regards a temporary event assuming that we do these by interim use permit um we need to take each zoning district and if we're going to allow a temporary event we need to add that to an ordinance Amendment so whether you had or did not have any one of these remaining businesses end up locating on Lake Drive the way I read the law you could still get someone requesting that a temporary event be held out there and I'm not finding as I said earlier in the statute where we can require these to be located only in licensed facilities so my question is would you allow a temporary facility or a temporary event within the light industrial or the CI Light District on Lake Drive yes it couldn't be worse than heyes so and I I think if you understood that that's you know not an unlikely activity um the debate will come later when we determine that uh we can restrict these to existing buildings even if they're not licensed as a cannabis business uh but we're not going to allow tents to be put up for a 4-day event that we we can encounter that later but assuming um that you understand you could you could get a request is the c i light district one in your minds where you could have a 4-day event I got to ask you quick question so somebody could say maybe I could make some money out of this and build a building and almost like a wedding venue and just keep using it over and over for that is that what you're talking about uh we we we see nothing in the statute that says um how often you would permit these I don't know where the audience is coming from for any event uh in in Columbus I I think there are many other locations especially those associated with other major facilities that make sense um but yes right now we don't know if we would have to allow uh any structure that might exist regardless of whether they're licensed as a cannabis business or not to be used as a facility as long as it met our otherwise designed standards and if our standards say we're not going to allow an outdoor tent and rely on uh temporary fencing and temporary lighting and whatever I I think we'll cross that burden later there's not a lot of options on Lake Drive anywhere where one of these would be held and again it's not a destination I don't see events being held here but I need to ask you the question would you like a cannabis excuse me temporary event being added to the CI District as an interim use I'm just thinking older what older OD well there uh you you you will also determine whether or not you allow onsite consumption and so if you allowed on-site consumption uh the orders you're going to get are from the vehicles that show up and if you're allowing smoking flour uh then that might be visible but I I don't know that that's that big of an issue I what about band music I wanted some clarification Dean I thought that the um temporary events no matter what also didn't allow smoking flour it was only Edibles or is that that is directly prohibited in the let me let me let me see if I can find a quick reference it's Direct prohibited in the micro business there's no smoking those are all Edibles they can be hyeny edibles but uh it's either liquid or or chewable items there's also no alcohol permitted in in that facility and no tobacco use um I'd have to clarify that the event okay allows we we can prohibit on-site consumption um but I am not seeing here where well I think if somebody's going to have one of these events they're going to want to have it down by like a entertainment business not unlik Drive I don't know I don't know I've seen them a lot of places okay that never know maybe I'm what I mean you've seen these events tell me I I I can't picture them what are they like it's like a fair yeah it's and so they sell a whole bunch of different kinds of to them all kinds of vendors just like a little County Fair and is it like retailers that typically go or anybody anybody um just almost like a farmer market deal yep I live on Grand Avenue if there's any sort of Festival on Grand I mean I guess my question is I and I wouldn't mind having it in the in the light in the Lake Drive area I I think Elanor has a very good point I do live in uh St Paul and Grand Avenue and the couple times that there has been like shut down Grand Avenue a little festival or something there's always some dispensaries um selling products um just like a Beer Garden or anything and you can just go up and buy one but is that is that what they call that an event do they have an event permit or something I'm just trying to figure out like I'm just saying that these events would probably they're allowed the higher potency marijuana than the ones currently you know down my street um but it would be very similar to that kind of thing but is it is it I guess I'm they have an they have an event license from the city to be there at the festival but they aren't currently selling the high potency marijuana these are established dispensaries though that already have their foot in the door for retail so that that my question is this like can they sell this at a different type of event like you're having blue herend days and now they're going to have some of that or is this just like all this is is people selling cannabis products and there's not like blue herend days this is not mixing those two it could be either so it could be something like you have we don't have a blue herend days or something like that so we wouldn't have the situation you have but we could have a situation where somebody's coordinating cuz there's a lot of Acres open in that district and they say well let's have a fair just for these and all these businesses sign up and put their tent in there um there and it would be just like that but what my question is I mean I don't think it would be terrible to have it once a year but I wouldn't want to have it every weekend so if we can't limit the number of times that they have uh temporary event then you know I don't know that we want to allow any if it's as many as they can come up with or zero then I just wouldn't want to have it open to let them do it however often they want to do it I mean I'm just thinking about the Hoops we made those poor people with the whippits go through to get their event license for whatever six whippit races a year mhm and that's whippits so like is that does it have to fit into our event permitting that's currently on our books now because that wouldn't allow for much mhm we could do that well I I think you'd have to have an application from a bigger entity that might decide to invite uh a cannabis event organizer but regardless we would be issuing an event license for one and a cannabis event license to another whether they could join together I I don't know uh I I I think this is pretty U specialized in what they try to do and that's getting manufacturers wholesalers and sometimes retailers uh are are the ones that want these events to see what on Earth is out there in the marketplace um for certain what the law allows is the sale of any of the legal products and it's up to cities to determine whether or not on-site consumption is allowed uh in all of the notes that I've got I don't see a specific prohibition about smoking um but the draft model ordance that was put out Simply says cities can determine whether they allow on-site consumption of Edibles and so it's it's a great area it's another one of my question marks uh I let's let's assume you can't you can't smoke at these events but they would have to have a separate area and all of these just like a liquor store uh have to have different entrances from a retail area to a consumption area uh has to be marked it has to be lighted it has to be secure I don't see temporary events being in you know tense it's it's way too complicated I could see this being in an empty Warehouse somewhere that's in a community that's got one or more of these businesses that that would be most likely that they could get a short-term lease but to Sue's question about how often would we have to permit these there's nothing in the statute that regards this so could an individual uh come in with an application and say I want 22 events and they apply for them all at one time you hold a public hearing you have all the dates in place I don't know I I do not know at this time whether we can restrict those uh to a certain number the law only says they cannot exceed more than four days they have to give us names in advance of uh all of the people that are showcasing products however it says with within 72 hours of the event they can be amended and so again I'm I'm thinking out loud trying to answer your questions it's not inconceivable that an event organizer that's uh licensed by the state could come into Community X and say I want to hold uh an event once a month I'm going to apply for one inter on his permit here are the participants and and by the regulations if those participants changed they can make that change within three days of the actual event and so conceivably somebody could come and ask for it how how realistic is that in our Market I I I think it's pretty slim but I can't answer the question how many are there so if Sue's Comfort level is once a year I don't think you can bet on that you know the other question I I had is um and this is maybe Jack Jack's area so like with fallfest we have to get a permit from the county to hold fallfest because our event is on a county road so if there was a cannabis event on Lake Drive or a cannabis event on we would also I mean it would also be subject to their permitting process is that right that would be correct m that's not that restrictive though it's more or less a process of notification and providing traffic control but they would have to go through the county but they would I mean you know we have to show them traffic control do all that kind I imagine they would have to do the same thing yeah it is also a part of anytime Running Aces through their special event permit anytime they do an event like Freedom Fest or anything they also have to go through in NOA County um highway department and the sheriff's office and do all of those things as well so do we know what where in NOA county is landing on these kinds of things cuz that I mean they could have very different view either for or against than we would I don't know that they've ever been inundated by a great number at one time so I'm not exactly sure what their policy is on that but you know as long as you meet their requirements for the traffic control and provide the information they need and show the security you're going to have they're usually okay okay with it but again if it got to be a great volume they may change their policies too Madam chair yes so anyway everyone this sounds like a lot of monkey business I can just see buying three new computers in another file cabinet and printing all the applications and on and on and on if you want to buy a joint go to force lake or go with illino down to St Paul yeah why even bother it just say no I are we are not allowed to completely prohibit temporary event licenses we do have to allow them say that again we are not allowed to prohibit temporary event license uh permits we do have to allow some well you just have to make it so that it if you didn't really want them you would just have to make it so that you didn't say no but they could never really do it this this leads to my my question we we need to determine is Lake Drive uh a suitable location and if you conclude it's a can of worms there's too many questions and it is a County Road they'll need multiple permits uh then for this discussion right now that we're on uh you may conclude that an event just isn't there we don't know that we can limit how many there would be per year to Sue's question and uh if if it just seems like too much trouble then you say okay uh to Eleanor's point we have to pick a district and you just say we're going to do it in the freeway corter and and we'll pick one or two of those as long as we pick one district for all of these uses we have fulfilled the legislation and it doesn't mean you can't come back right and amend the ordinance and add an interm use for the sealight district to say uh yeah let's let's allow events but you don't have to do it coming right out of the shoot I I I think limiting in that in in with those regards I think limiting to just the freeway District at this point really does kind of put a uh as you were saying uh earlier Janet that it does kind of make it less desirable to try and do something there there isn't good access to the to that area for large groups of people uh other than going through Running Aces somehow uh but I think the freeway district is the most limiting that we can do at this point yes and since we have to pick someplace I think place that is less likely to be used is a good idea yeah I agree with that um the only other one I would think and we did talk about Running Aces a little bit I mean what if they wanted to have a event and they had a license I don't know if they're going to but if they did then we would be allowing it there that's but I agree with the freeway District where most of them are going to be anyway the licensed everybody agreeance to freeway District yes okay done okay my my list has consensus as I wanted we are suggesting no temporary event I take that off the list which wasn't on yours anyway uh we have eliminated cultivation meso business medical business testing business and Manufacturing so we would be considering within the West half of Lake Drive the CI Light District wholesale business transporter business and delivery yep yep yes yes perfect okay next item I ran out of paper on that pad I need a new notepad um the next category is uh the variety of more uh retail oriented districts the the hrcc the high density mixed use The General commercial Highway commercial we had retail micro business and temporary events discussion we've taken the temporary events out of there I believe by putting them in the freeway District um the freeway District includes like everything over here in the area um and so the temporary events right now is within this dark red the light red and this pink here and then these oranges so the top half the north half of the freeway district is what we're talking about right now I would still not want them over by our mixed use high I would agree I thought the lii or light industrial isn't that the the M so the way that we have broken this up so far on Dean's little sheet little sheet sorry Dean's memo um is the top the northern half of the freeway freeway District having more of the retail businesses the retail the micro business and the temporary events and then the um Southern half of the freeway District have um being the general business this pink and then the light purple the light industrial having the cultivation manufacturing um wholesale testing medical um transporter devel delivery um and the meso businesses in that that's how those two areas of the freeway District have been split up so far okay sorry I agree you okay with that yeah okay so what are we agreeing to not taking it out of the mixed used tie we can still have that conversation next and this is where I'm looking no she's talking about the Li and the GB right she's also talking about that what's next on your list Dean uh I'm not certain that I caught the only thing you did on that category was remove mu otherwise whether it's retail micro business or temporary events are suitable in the other categories so we're removing the option for retail in the mixed use high density eliminating mixed use from that bullet okay that's good that gets us down to the southern half as uh elener described and that was just the uh Light Industry General business and if we're required to identify any outdoor cultivation this would be the location uh manufacturing wholesale testing medical transporter uh all of the others uh and I would uh add into that then the meso business because we don't have a category for it so these two districts would literally allow anything but we do need because we don't have a zoning district with meso business we need to add that that' be the only uh location where a meso business would be allowed otherwise is is that satisfactory yes yes all right I'm not hearing anything uh there was a yes temporary events as I started out earlier I cannot determine that we can restrict them to be located within other existing cannabis license facilities and so a question becomes um we've got them located in essentially everything except mixed use high density within the freeway C or the mixed use medium um I just want to make sure that that's [Music] okay yes I think it it is everybody okay okay all right then there's really only uh a couple of things and we've address these only to the extent that those businesses that may be using solvents or higher amounts of water uh are now all going to be located in the freeway corridor not unlike the truck wash if there's some unusual demands here which I'm not I'm I'm not finding um we we need to determine that as a community but we also need to identify a district where this is going to happen and I go back to some of the questions about whether the car wash is going to tax our system in some instances um you'll find cities that are debating um adding a a water treatment plant or they're adding a a new treatment or excuse me a new storage facility uh it is sometimes businesses that are high generators that get encouraged uh you get a big apartment project it may tip the balance on your water storage requirements and be the thing that puts you over a threshold where you have to bite the bullet and build a water tone um these are decisions again that go within the freeway corridor because those are the people that pay for and support this you're going to have to sell bonds and other things to make it work the sewer system is less complicated as long as a sewer user uh gets uh permission from the Metropolitan Council on their waste flow uh they're going to be allowed in the system they be they may be paying a lot of sack charges um and there are even some additional um treatment charges that they have for big food manufacturers I think I may have mentioned at our first meeting a big taxing facility uh our food manufacturers a pizza company you could have bernatellos as your largest employer in town you're going to have one of the most sophisticated water treatment plants because of that one employer but that's a a decision that would happen that isn't our problem we don't worry about uh sewer flow that's an issue that the Metropolitan council is going to be working with the office of uh cannabis Management on to determine that all of the waste treatment uh capacities are going to be met the water issues um I don't see any of these facilities tipping that balance but you're approaching the point when having one or more higher users come in uh you wonder how you're going to afford this uh all communities go through it you're going to spend a couple million dollarss on a treatment facility whether you add new wells as a part of your enterprise system that ends up being a function of all of those users properties in the freeway Corridor supporting and paying for that and so Jack's going to have to balance the budget to to show exactly how if you have rate changes and other charges that become implemented within that system there aren't going to be a general obligation burden for the community I know I didn't p in on on the comments about Road issues you you've established these uh two sides of the interstate highway as very high uh potential vehicle users and very high uh truck users and while you're building a lot of those segments or the county on the west side is managing West Freeway Drive the improvements that continue on Hornsby Drive are going to be a function of those businesses that ultimately end up paying for this uh I don't know the actual portion of all payments that loves may have had in getting the Dual turn Lanes when that signal was put in place I'm sure they regarded that as money well spent uh it makes their business work better and so as you go there are going to be improvements to both sewer water and Roads throughout the entire freeway work there's no question that's um you know that's that's your city engineer keeping uh ahead of the curve and I know they have brought up water tower and eventually maybe 10 15 years to deal with manganese and other things you get into water treatment they are fantastically expensive and you need a lot of people on the system to help pay for those improvements but the water storage is going to be your next hurdle there's there's no question and so I don't know if at this particular time there is a need to talk about sore and water demands for manufacturing solvents and odors uh we are not allowed to establish uh regulations for um odor uh just like noise those are established by federal rules um we can talk to people about the types of ventilation systems they may have what types of uh filters they may use in that filtration system but we can't create rules and so I'm okay to move on without answering the questions about what specific sewer and water demands may exist for cannabis manufacturing I think it's going to take care of itself we must be at the witching hour I don't hear any so I'm are you are okay uh and and we discussed or the discussion came up and there was really uh no continuing debate about whether uh inter use can be used for every business clearly in my mind and I see this in discussions from other communities that inter use permit is going to be used for events uh but I don't see any Communities going towards inter amuse per one of the issues that I have personally and I I won't give you the uh tiate from your City attorney about allowing more permitted uses versus conditional you've you've beaten that in the ground and I'm I'm happy to keep that but I I would argue against going with an inter use for anything that's involving uh brick and mortar business rather than what we traditionally used them for and that was your uh residential Zone business business which is no longer there for things that were regarded temporary in nature uh we do them for Billboards because they're not permanent property improvements and we do them for things like mining but when you're talking about a brick and mortar Improvement and you're talking about a state agency that is licensing facilities and while they may not be forever as long as the state licenses uh a facility uh we have to license it ourselves uh or agree to it on an annual basis and I in spite of what concerns are we don't know if these businesses are Fly by Night if they lose their license and we've issued a conditional use uh by the state's own definition those licenses are not transferable and so uh we're starting over and so I I only want to say and we don't have to resolve this tonight we can continue it at the next meeting I I don't recommend that you consider the interim use permit for the other businesses uh you reserve that for the events so should we anybody want to discuss that or should we put it up let's punt that to the next meeting okay but but I do have one question and I noticed that there was a note on the bottom that Janet forwarded the opinion from the Star Tribune but I don't see a copy of that it was emailed out to everybody it was em emailed out and there's also I mean what's actually I mean that's an opinion piece so there's obviously bias in in that opinion but they referenced a economic study that was done by the Federal Reserve in Kansas City and that answered a lot of our questions about what they've learned and some of it I thought was really beneficial it's like 70 Pages not Light reading but if you want to get into the how beneficial is it economically to the states that have done it and what have they learned from it that would be definitely the the thing to read and I um I know you have the I gave the reference to the actual um study that this opinion piece was was referring to so if you want it elanar can send it out again all right we'll send out a bunch of resources if anyone wants physical copies of anything shoot me an email I will print some stuff out for you guys yeah I think Janet summary is is is a fair one there there certainly were some revealing things I I think the information if you were a state that was debating as a part of your policy that you're going to make a lot of money you might want to read that and we're we're beyond that in Minnesota right now the decision's been made I sent you and I think Elanor forwarded those to you a couple of other summaries from um all of the states that have gotten into the business and and what what they're making and it wasn't an intent to do anything other than to give you some of those ranges time is only going to tell whether this has made any economic sense or not it isn't going to resolve personal opinions about whether it was the right decision to do I think we all understand that but um I I did I did read the same thing that Janet did and it was uh it was grueling that's a lot so that's all I have thank you so much for uh paying attention this long a time yeah thank you Dean thanks Dean hey how's your H and I have on my calendar we're going to do this the first meeting in um October yes that right we will do we will do cannabis meetings until we're done that sounds like fun yeah we might need some to get through that next meeting October oh we'll all be asleep then mhm okay well moving on uh planning commissioner reports Scott I don't have anything I don't have anything Mrs Barb nothing for me and all what I have to say is uh there's still time to sign up to volunteer for fallfest so you know anybody that hasn't sign up now City administrator I have nothing to report I'm sure that's what you want to hear Mining and Zoning nothing to report at this time I'll be sending out more resources and things as the days go by but nothing right now okay motion to adjourn is Rob and I motion that we adjourn tonight Scott I'll second motion's been made and second Rob all Scot ey Janet I bar Jessie I sue I Ron I Robin I and ly I meeting a turned at 9 [Music]