[Music] we are right at 7 o'cl so I will call tonight's city council meeting to order and um Julian can we have a w call please council members Erikson here hnik here bindo here Roberts here mayor Bane here I'd like to invite everyone to rise and join us for the Pledge of Allegiance to of the United States of America and to the stands Nation indivisible jusice for Council Members we have an agenda before you I will entertain a motion to approve or any changes I'll make a motion to approve the agenda second we have a motion and a second all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose and our agenda is approved our next item this evening is open Forum open forum is any interested parties opportunity to address Council on any topic of your choosing um and do we have anyone signed up for open Forum this evening we do not we do not very good we will bring the agenda back to council and Council for your consideration tonight are is a fairly lengthy consent agenda um covering items 6A through 6m I would move that we approve the consent agenda moving items J and K to the regular agenda is there a second or any other changes happy to um entertain any other changes to the consent agenda I'll second your motion if there's other changes very good um there is a motion and a second for the amended consent agenda um all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose and motion car IES um I move to the regular agenda for consideration is item 6j um just wanted to pull this off onto the regular agenda just to highlight um item 6j is to approve resolution 513 2401 which is accepting donations from W wdi Industries with gratitude I would move that Council approve is there a second I'll second we have a motion and a second any discussion hearing none I'll those in favor signal by saying I I oppose motion carries also on our regular agenda is consideration of resolution 5132 2402 accepting donations received in the memory of retired um flfp chaplain Frank th um and with gratitude is and I would move that Council approve is there a second second we have a motion we'll take a second from council member Ericson any discussion hearing none all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose and motion carries moving on to our planned regular agenda is item 7A authorized preparation of plans and specifications for Northshore Trail and Ryan uh mayor city council we have a another presentation prepared to tonight to go over this a little different than our normal process but just because a lot of questions have come up in regards to the presentation that was done at the April 22nd city council meeting so we'll quick go through this uh kind of just recap uh the Direction coming out of that meeting was to um come forward to authorize preparation of plans and specifications for the NorthShore Trail pavement maintenance project from Greenway to Highway 97 uh just kind of recap that scope of work was going to include the items outlined here that was previously uh shown to you at the last meeting and then uh what was not going to be included in that scope of work with items here too those are the same slides from the presentation on the 22nd uh project timeline and then the estimated total project cost was 5.9 million uh as presented but out of that meet since that meeting there's been a lot of conversation about uh future Trail portions that are identified in the comprehensive plan so we're going to kind of go through those two specific areas uh this area shown on the screen on great detail and the other we'll kind of just highlight a couple things uh so this area here on Northshore trail from Greenway Avenue to 235th is just over a mile uh the other area that's identified in the comprehens of plan for trail along Northshore Trail is from keather Avenue to Highway 97 that's uh half a mile uh pointing out this area first uh as you can see there is potential of future developments on the east side of Northshore there with the red x that zone neighborhood commercial you know we've identifi that as some sometimes a future fire station or if it did develops uh into some residential if land changed or anything like that there is a sewer stub that was put in part of Forest Hills Farm Forest Hills Preserve phase two that could serve that area with residential or commercial or the neighborhood commercial whatever zoning is that would allow for future development in the future that could potentially build some trail along with that project too uh obviously bringing a trail up along this area all the parcels in this area other than Forest Hills Farms we need to go through the RightWay easements uh acquisition to locate a trail in that area me to let know but wanted to really spend a lot of time on that section that's been discussed and a lot of questions that have been coming in from Greenway Avenue to 35th so items that would need to be addressed in this particular area are RightWay permanent easements temporary easements for construction purposes field work that would need to be completed Wetland delineations survey soil borings a lot of public Outreach and we'll go through why I'll show you some pictures and we'll discuss some of those items private utility coordination would anticipate having to relocatees private utilities to fit the project uh and then ultimately determine the scope of the project what will fit in that Corridor with the property that would become available and then identify areas for storm water treatments as this would be a reconstruction and we would trigger all the Watershed rules and requirements so right away uh in easements areas that we would need to identify uh or research additional properties there's 60 of them along this section this one's highlighted here uh the property goes out to center of the road here's a handful of properties in an area that would need to be researched further uh there is one roadway easement you can see outlined right in the middle but does not continue west or east of that particular section and then this is another portion of that now through certain types of applications that have come forward through th that particular section of Northshore Trail we have required easements to be attained as part of those applications so some of the work areas have been done and that's why not every single parcel has been highlighted and some of it has traditional RightWay already uh Wetland delineations you can see some of the wetlands that come right up to the edge of the road we'd have to identify those boundaries potentially that would did dictate the location of the improvements uh we'd have to prair a wetland replacement plan if we're proposing impacts and then seek approval on that process uh you can see here's just a picture showing how the wetlands come right up to the road and if you were to fit a 10-ft trail in there the impacts it would have uh while I bring up public Outreach I'm going to go through a handful of slides just kind of point out some stuff that's to you know help prepare you for what that project does happen that uh some of the things we'd have to work through now here you know by looking everything on the high level right now without doing any the field work most likely the trail would be located on the north side of the road or in this picture the the left side uh just because of the fewer number of driveways um but then there's a number of other things whether there's you know Wetlands or Landscaping in in the area where you'd want to build these improvements or you can see on the east side of the road if the road were to shift to avoid some of the wetlands on the west side or maybe private utilities too you're now filling that ditch in as well to fit that reconstruct so you're removing the uh traditional ditch along the roadways and coming in with uh storm sewer and then just some of the bigger trees that are along that Corridor you're going to have a lot of root damage and uh other things we'll talk about as we go through this these neighborhoods and any Landscaping in the boulevards another thing we're going to have to work around and consider you know where this that final Center Line of the roadway would be is the existing structures that are very close in proximity to the roadway you know obviously somebody doesn't want something to come closer to their their house than already is but here in this picture you can see some Wetlands on the west side or on the left and then you got the the house structures right there on the the right side so and then some private utilities overhead power um you're going to have to probably anticipate some relocation of those power poles but we'll get into another slide that'll illustrate some other things to think about once you start doing that too so here's another Corridor picture where where will the final Center Line actually be will you move left will you move right well if you move left you're going to impact the overhead power the existing ditches as well on both sides and then you know you get closer to a house that's on the north side of that left side of the picture too here's a picture I just wanted to show you that you got this big landscape retaining wall right there on the right side or on the south side of the road very narrow ditch right now but any improvements you know where do where do you slide what do you impact if you avoid that Landscaping retain wall that shown there on the rights you're going to be moving everything to the west or the north on or the left on the picture th then you're moving that power pole line too to fit that 10 foot Trail but then you think of those power lines going through right there now all those trees that are they avoiding you're going to have to start trimming some trees too so that's another impact that's going to create that storm ball effect depending on where that final Center Line will be here's another one with the existing house structures and there's handful of driveways out there with driveway pillars or other features that are close out to the area that will be in the construction zone uh private utilities you can see in this one you got guide wires that's kind of common coming down into where you would want to do some of your improvements so typically when you eliminate just Simple Guide wires you got to re support the pole somehow and that usually means installing another separate pole uh to it attached to so that might be one that actually goes over Northshore to the other side or depending on where you could get things to fit again too here's just another picture showing you know if youd fit that trail in on that north side of the road uh upon Road reconstruction with curbing gutter you're still going to have to relocate that power pole uh to avoid that area of that construction and then you would you know that ditch would get filled in and the overhead power lines here's just a corner you know every once in a while we'll have some pedestals like this as well that we'd have to work around those are a little easier to relocate because most of that utility is underground but the overhead power stuff once that starts taking off that's where you got to think about that Snowball Effect if anything does move so just bring in the anticipated cost into that uh the current mate project that has been presented is estimated at 5.9 million that portion from Greenway Avenue to 235th is estimated just over a million and that area from keather Avenue to Highway 97 is just over 500,000 so if you were to take any of those two sections out that would just lower that 5.9 Million by that much that I just outline those two numbers looking at reconstruction of Northshore Trail and fitting in a 10 foot trail out the back of the curb if we were able to fit the 32 face tof face curb uh Street section in there that's estimated at 6.2 million uh if we could get down to a 28 foots that's 5.9 I think we're going to want something wider than the 28 foot because the bikers aren't going to want to use the trail and they're going to want to use the pavement of the roadway so I think you're probably going to be more closer to a 32t face to face maybe a little narrower but that would allow bikers a place to bike versus going on the trail the estimates don't include any property Acquisitions or Wetland replacement credits uh dependent on when where the balance is on Wetland credit sometimes a road replacement program is a area that we can utilize some of those funds to uh offset the Wetland uh replacement credits but that's been a bank that hasn't been fully funded from the state so that's fluctuates a little bit um what they might have available at the time of construction estimates don't include uh any private property uh removing relocating and replacement of landscaping features driveway pillars or other features that are considered private sprinkler lines and underground pet fces are assumed property's owner's responsibility it's kind of policy we moved forward with on uh past three projects water man expansions not included in these estimates it might be something that would want to be considered since that's being considered in the portion of Northshore Drive from Highway 61 to Greenway so it would only make sense to continue that if that was a desire support but that would add obviously certain more cost to the project so just kind of big picture wise I just laid this out First Column 2020 25 is the current uh pricing that the projects are estimated in the reconstruct CIP and we don't have anything planned for 26 because of the Highway 8 project and don't want to impact the residents along Northshore driver Northshore Trail uh and accessibility for emergency medical Vehicles garbage service and all the all the other services that they would need access to those residents with the limit limited access that's going to be available in Highway 8s so plan would be to keep Northshore Drive and Trail open 26 and 27 and that's why you can see in 28s as where that Northshore Trail Recon was moved out to with a uh 10- foot Trail that's there's two numbers there North NST stands for Northshore Trail Recon and Trail greenw at 235th so present value uh you can see the 6.2 million but then using 2.4 uh perent annual constru tion inflation gets you to the highlighted orange number to show what that potentially would be in 2028 uh the number below that's the 6.3 that's uh the the smaller Road the smaller Footprints but you can see some of the other projects that we got in there too that uh we've been talking about uh maybe one of the projects gets moved on the dates for instance 12 Street Southwest is that a higher priority than the Northshore Trail uh portion or vice versa and one does one of those get moved out farther in the CIP uh then you got other projects that are kind of lined up you know and lined up in into this long long-term CIP that's would create some one of that snowball effects and you push stuff further down the price will go up what's the priority um we have current safety issues has Redevelopment changed so I mean those are a lot of the conversations that'll go with some of those future C projects but this is just trying to paint the big picture of some of the stuff that's coming up this is not anything included with the cooperate agreement project set we got going on with the county of the states uh after Washington County's done with the two that we've been heavily involved in you know they're already been looking at this County Road 50 and 61 and taking that pass out through good viw so that's another one that's coming on the horizon um and then there are local Street Improvement projects that are going on too are outside of this as well and maintenance projects like your seal code crack filling and the double chip seals on the gravel roads so with that I just want to open up with any questions if there's any changes to what's outlined in the city council memo for authorizing preparation of plans and specifications for the NorthShore Trail payment project thank you Ryan Council let's just open it up questions that you may have and for those of you that are watching um this is a follow-up discussion to a conversation and know kind of a fairly lengthy Workshop discussion we had a couple of weeks ago um and this was some additional information that Ryan was asked to bring back um Ryan uh what was the in in a perfect world if we were caught up with if we were caught up with maintenance and if we were um had had streets on a regular routine what would be the estimated useful life of the maintenance project that's being proposed the original proposal of the $5.9 million from Greenway to um 97 what what should be that estimated useful life and how frequently should we be considering that type of a project well unless there's some significant change in use or all a sudden a lot of trucks start coming through that area more than what's already going on out there that should be a 20-year project so that's a 20-year project and then the have your routine crack filling and seal coating and some patching would occur within that 20year period but your surface it should be intact for 20 years we're coming in replacing the the bin surf surface so we're you know obviously we don't know until soil borings are done there might be some areas we got to do some correction work on the subgrade you know especially when we get out to the areas that are really broken up and got Wetlands on both sides that's past the 235th area but if that's all corrected and solid that should be a 20-year pavement and then on this the slide that you just had that had all of the projects by year you we have already slotted prior to this conversation I think we did this last year if in correct my dates but the the portion of Northshore Drive that is is this the 2028 project do you mind just pulling just going back to that slide yep so that was planned for 26 in in your CIP that was for 26 but because the way 8 now timing where they've nailed down their schedule it's recommended that that's moved to 28s and that is a planned full reconstruct right full Recon with water and sewer and it what's the driver of the difference between needing a resurfacing versus a Recon project and there you have underground utilities existing storm water sanitary sewer and water main and you got Ada uh in non ADA compliance pedestrian facilities it's ranges either four to a 5 foot sidewalk on one side and none of the slopes meet 88 compliance that project would accommodate a 10-ft trail side hasn't been 100% determined yet but probably most likely going to be on the west or north side of that roadway and the and that was part of my question so the trail component is planned as part of that Northshore Drive reconstruction is that's that's correct and that would take you up to Greenway and uh the last city council meeting remember I showed you what the shago county menot are proposing at Greenway y roundabouts and to bring down the bring down the improvements down to Northshore and then with that project they're planning that Swedish immigrant Trail to be extended all the way from carmell Avenue down to 61 Gateway uh hardwood Creek Trail so there you know would have some sort of a connection if he gets down through Greenway so that that you know that's kind of all complete in the loop right right right and then the estimated useful life of a Recon project is that also 20 years or does that buy us some additional as a more extensive project we would plan on a 20-year cycle again you know you design cycle for the 20 years now because when you come in with these Recons you put a full section in and you that's why you can get by just replacing the pavement section right maybe in 20 years instead of having to go down and dig everything out right right okay now when you coming in and replacing the water main and all that I I mean all the utility stuff should be 70 60 plus years for sure if you if you fix it and then you know the subbase of the road would have drain tile in it and then uh yeah just the surface stuff at that point the you know the individuals that have spoken about and that just the point keeps rising to the conversation it's a good one that if we're going to do this Trail on Northshore trail that you know this is a time to consider um and you know if it's a 20-year plan project if we don't do it now conceivably it's probably another 20 years before we have another door open so it I appreciate the timing of the question and that that push that we should consider um I'm I'm I'm struggling on a couple of things one is just the pure cost and size of the project and everything that you walked through around magnitude of project just gives me concern on time to get that done but then also um this is an anticipation of a a the trail project that's part of the comprehensive plan and one of my concerns is I just look at that comprehensive plan and what that trail project is I question whether we have kind of community consensus on what that's what that is what that project actually entails I concerned that individuals think that a trail around Trail means actually a trail around the lake when actually that plan has only very short segments actually around the lake and then the rest of it is a neighborhood connecting Trail which also has some value but again given the price tag on it and the impact um I I am concerned it's not maybe as vetted as we would maybe like it to be to consider it here in the near term um because again when we talk about a trail on Northshore Trail it's really just the section of Greenway to 235th and then the portion of keather to 97 everything else is kind of pushed back into the neighborhoods and is a great amenity um which then brings me to my next question Ryan have we done any sort of estimation on feasibility of that TR Trail path cost of that path because I have a sense that it's rather unsolved for and so delaying this maintenance project for those types of questions to again I'm troubled by are you talking about the trail portion from Greenway to 235th no the larger Trail portion of you know what's in our comprehensive plan and so if we're kind of building up to supporting what's in the comprehensive plan and that seems to be the argument of hey if we're let's continue to make progress on what's in the comprehensive plan um that's a good goal but here in the near term I'm concerned that we just don't have a strong sense of what those costs would be the feasibility of that type of a project project um and so I'm concerned about delaying this maintenance project for a lot of information we just don't know or certainly haven't financially solved for there's a question there somewhere well in regards to your comprehensive Trail plan it also goes through areas of future development right which would be the anticipation that that development would pay for that part of their improvements is it the exact same linemen that's shown on the on the plan now might so maybe not but there's no way that we could go plan and affording that that has going to have to take several years of development and several projects to complete that overall comprehensive plan some of that though did go through existing neighborhoods right some of that what's in the con comprehensive plan does go through the existing neighborhoods and maybe that's just my point is I don't think we've done any planning for that Fe you know understanding of costs um so this is a portion right now on the screen that goes through existing neighborhoods you're not going to have Redevelopment to offset that right that area of kether I brought up that particular parcel potentially that's a mechanism to offset some of that cost if that were to happen right um but yeah some of these go through neighborhoods that are existing neighborhoods and they'll be fully funded by the city uh and not development you and you say will be but that's I just want to make the point that past my Lifetime well right well that's what that's what I want to make sure of is that that we don't have a plan that's not built into our 10year plan right now of funding for that those are wish list items that have some value and we would love to see it happen but there isn't an active plan to make that come to make that full Trail happen and in absence of that active plan and that full funding strategy um we're really talking about breaking this up into small segments and that's just what I wanted to again make the point on and maybe I'm belaboring it but that it's this us solving for this doesn't give us what's on the comprehensive plan there's a long road to get to the comprehensive plan compreh comprehensive plan is big and very longterm into the city buildout right right but having that plan is where we've been successful in acquire obtaining grants agree to show how the connectivity will eventually happen I agree yeah okay other kind of thoughts on just decision Point mention is there any you see any opportunities for grants for this portion at all that if we commit to a project and it was planned for 28 yeah we would start the funding Pursuit but if we change course and 12th Street becomes a priority or like County Road 32 did that's where all our resources went for Grant submittals um uh so you got to be uh it's the word I'm looking for you got to be committed to that project because we might not be successful that first round or second round but maybe that third round right and if you stay committed maybe you your your chances improve but uh if we change in the pendulum from Project to project or priorities whether it's a downtown project or it's some development project project or if it's Northshore bike path when you take resources away from that stuff your momentum certainly loses you know we put we put a full core press on with Eureka Avenue and we were fortunate became successful there but all the resources were put towards Eureka Avenue at that time do you mind pulling um jump into the slide that has the multiple projects by year because there's my other concern if If part of us making this commitment to a trail in the near term um it means that we're less committed to 12th Street I I I'm just really concerned about that um being a good idea I we've we have got to keep 12th Street front and center major retail also will have some pedestrian components to me I see that as more of major infrastructure for Commerce and just everyday life the the trail is also important and Recreation is important but it is I I think a more of a nice to have amenity than 12th Street is going to be screaming at us here if we don't keep that front and center so maybe I can just shorten up our conversation here a little bit since I was the one person that really was pushing to maybe explore this it's been great to get this number $6 million for a mile Trail is UN I mean that is really hard to to to dedicate that kind of funs when we have those issues like 12th and and everything so as much as I would still like to see this explored we now have a number and I think when people come to us and say okay you're redoing Northshore how come you didn't do a trail now we can say because it's $6 million plus land acquisition plus land acquisition right that makes me a little more comfortable with having that response not saying not not saying that the public still wouldn't want that it'd be nice to have that opportunity for them to make that decision I just don't know how the timing how that all works yeah yeah and I agree and also really appreciate the the the reminder that hey we need to if we're going to consider it we need to consider it now because it is a decision we will have for quite some time but council member roberts6 million for a a mile of trail is a lot yeah I think the numbers are helpful because we get asked so much about the trail um and then my one question is is I'm assuming that in order to add a trail we you'd prefer to do a full reconstruct yeah so the estimates include full reconstruction of the roadway because anywhere you move that road right now even a couple feet you're already filling in the ditches right and then it's got all traditional drainage out there open Channel flow ditches we have to come in there and convey that storm water somehow and that's going to include curbing gutter installation to get traditional storm sewer installed to get that convey that water where it's got to go right so by adding those components what you s cut the road here but leave that little portion here it's just the the uniform construction the differential settlements you're going to you're going to left be left with a road that would need maintenance from day one and half the road that would be good for 20 years right that just doesn't make sense when you you're going to come and spend the amount of money you would having to work around that versus having a uniform project getting it permitted getting it approved and then you know you know that's there for 20 years then you come maybe just have to do pavement Replacements and don't have to do anything else that's there for another 20 right so but if you have to come back and then reconstruct that other side because you didn't do it at the beginning and then you you doubling that cost so it's just it's a Snowball Effect again on that it just makes sense because of the existing ditches and to conveying storm water in there and to make things fit tighter if we came you know if you had the the road a ditch and then the trail off the road I mean you got to then now your footprint just got that much wider for slopes and uh clear Zone requirements that would be needed to be looked at too and then you just get that much closer to a lot of the structures that we pointed out in just a few of the areas the other the other thing for me is that seeing that we were you know if we're going to provide a connector already in Northshore Drive that would go from hardwood to this Gateway Trail we're providing some Recreation and Trail accessibility to to the residents like that is a big thing for me and that makes it a little easier to maybe let this one go for unfortunately 20 years if that's what it is it's painful to say yes yeah and I also I I just think people have a mindset of let's bike to the Pizza Pub and that's just not what is feasible it's it's a bike that portion of an rer Trail and then a neighborhood trail to the rest of 97 so if there was an opportunity to continue with this project but also some Outreach to some kind of degree where we could get a little bit feedback to confirm that people would say at 6 million we you know tap out we don't want to do that and still I think at one point Ryan you talked about doing some of the the ground workor or the the preconstruction work this year that we could still do that and then make that Pivot Point at a later date on this section that would be the only thought of holding up anything right we got proposals in hand from two geotechnical firms to do the road stuff from 235th to Greenway uh they'll use ground penetrating radar which will give us the depth and they'll do some soil borings sporadically for calibration to that uh now we'll need you know with the trail project you'll still need some outside of the existing roadway because because we're going to you know if we got a bunch of Pete in the ditch we're going to have to dig that out that's stuff that's not known to put that new roadway on in curbing Gutter and then that trail right so that's the stuff that would have to be done in the future but the roadway stuff will be it'll be good but if we come in with the maintenance project through there then we'll have the record plans of the new section but the other R something else we could do around those lines is just kind of include this type of a project as we're doing future Outreach maybe part of the budget cycle just um you know it's it's future dollars um I mean it it would be somehow I appreciate your your your question is kind of around how do we gather some feedback on this type of a cost on this type of a project um it's it's just likely going to happen after tonight's you know decision on moving ahead with plans and specs and um but I I think just education around you know Trail what does that mean to you know add a trail and those expenses is we you know we need to be doing more to get that out there so people can help make guided decisions on what segments are important well it's a lot different if you already had an existing roadway and had yes storm sewering and all the other utilities for example Fenway Avenue that's a perfect example where that that's just a full payment replacement but that includes the continuation of the trail from uh Fenway athletic fields up to Highway 97 project that's going to be done in 25 26 and that's under 2 million you know so that's that's the difference we're expanding our Footprints all that earthwork all that stuff nobody's going to see that's what's generating the cost and then bring it up to brand new kurbing gter you know that doesn't exist there today so you're paying everything up front uh to get those improvements to fit and and drain and one thing that should be noted just so we're on the same page is a reconstruct would your current uh assessment policy would be assessment of 20% for those improvements to adjacent Property Owners Trail and Road expenses both I got to reread what it says about Trail but I that The Pedestrian facilities fall into that okay storm s is part of that to yeah um so tonight's so tonight's um requested action is for authorization of plans and specs um any other kind of questions points of points of comment anyone ready for a motion so it's the plans ins specs for the five .9 million portion of that yes the 5.9 million I would move that Council approve the NorthShore Trail pavement maintenance project authorization of plans and specs as um outlined in Ryan's memo is there a second second you have a motion and a second any further discussion hearing none all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose and motion carries thank you for for putting this additional information together Ryan all right we will move on to our next agenda item which is item 7B updated fee schedule for airport lease rates and ordinance 737 Christina yeah uh mayor and Council normally this would have been a consent agenda item but I wanted to give the opportunity to council member husnik to abstain like he did last time when you voted on the airport lease rates this is those same rates we're just putting it into the fee schedule now so that we can enforce it is all that this ordinance does great good thank you Christina Council any questions I'll entertain a motion if anyone's ready make a motion to approve ordinance number 737 amending the city code chapter 35 fees and service charges as outlined I'll second we have a motion in a second any discussion hearing none all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose abstain one exstension motion carries and brings us to item 7c downtown downtown on Shoreline stabilization and boat launch relocation study at ab's taking us through this thank you mayor Bay members of the council in July of 22 the um City uh approved the downtown plan which outlined numerous projects to occur in the downtown area over the next several decades through the 2023 I guess uh yep 2023 budget discussions it was determined that the city would assess the shoreline stabilization and look to uh assess the potential relocation of the downtown boat launch so in early 2023 the Eda authorized a two-phase project with Tali and through late last year um the city staff worked with Bruce Chamberlain and um City staff from city parks Public Works council member of valento representatives from The Watershed district and the Lake Association to create a draft plan uh which would which assesses both the potential boat launch relocation and the shoreline stabilization study my well my memo outlines some of the highlights of that Bruce is here tonight to give you a summary of that um plan uh just for reference tonight's recommendation is kind of twofold in April the Eda did review this the Eda is uh favorable to the city's acceptance of the plan of there was one modification they want the city to consider would be the removal of trailer spaces associated with the recommendation uh regarding the boat launch relocation um and then staff's recommendation would be for you to discuss the enclosed plan and move to accept the plan without that addon trailer spaces um if you are favorable to the plan just as a reminder to the council there's no funds budgeted for this project this isn't these both of these projects this would essentially um uh be the council's acknowledgement of the study and our opportunity as you know our projects our our discussions further with our partners um if there's potential funding sources in the future that we would look towards those opportunities but not that these are active work plan items so um I'm going to hand it over to Bruce Chamberlain with to L um would you um put my computer on sure thanks hi everyone it's good to see you again it's good to see you yeah um while Abby is loading the slides um as you know when we did the downtown plan there were a number of actions that were included with the plan and some of them were early actions or um um kind of catalyst projects that could be looked at and this this is a way of exploring two of those one of them is to relocate the downtown bolt launch um as it was viewed as part of the downtown plan is really being Central to some of the other um interests and activities that were um part of the plan and then the second piece is looking at the shoreline itself of the lake through Lakeside Memorial Park so ah we've got slides up I don't see them I'm looking at my machine that's why yeah okay uh yeah so um I won't go through them but there are findings and directives and actions that are part of the downtown plan and these are encased within those thanks Abby um first we'll we'll look at the relocation of the boat launch um this is the the boat launch that exists in the downtown area next slide I just want to put a couple of photos in there we looked at three different Alternatives actually we looked at and studied the possibility of many Alterna atives most of them proved not to be feasible so we did not take them further the three that seem to be the most feasible are the three that are shown on this slide one is leaving in in place in the downtown um and maybe a different parking configuration but essentially leaving it within the downtown core um and then finding trailer parking nearby the second one is looking at second third Avenue nor Second Avenue sorry uh North 2 Avenue and the space configuration the spatial configuration of that one is really tight so it would go within the ex existing street right away it would require property acquisition of a couple of properties right at the shoreline um and there would not be the opportunity for any nearby parking so while it is a possibility it's not a great possibility and would lead to the need for remote Park parking in total for the most part the third option furthest to the north on Northeast 4th U Avenue is the one that seems most viable there's adjacent private property but unused property currently um it would again use the street RightWay as the primary access route it would have um around 22 or so stalls that could be incorporated into a new parking area adjacent to the launch along with a number of stall s that are on street so the existing launch in the downtown area has about 25 or so dedicated parking stalls trailer stalls associated with it this one would have about 27 or so directly adjacent to the launch and this is when uh we studied the possibility of remote parking on the other side on the west side of Highway 61 um and that's what the Eda is responding to and along with City staff recommending that that not be explored for a number of reasons one is safety of Crossing pedestrians on Highway 61 another is just the Redevelopment potential that exists on that site and the possibility that putting trailer parking over there would preclude that possibility and just the distance it seems like a lot to spend on um a fairly distant parking area so that becomes the recommendation on Fourth happy next slide if you would you have a page within your packet that outlines some of the um ins and outs of that possibility and essentially it's about a million doll uh cost 1.1 uh thereabouts million dollar cost of constructing both the parking directly adjacent as well as the launch that does not include property acquisition or acquisition of an easement or whatever the the land uh deal would be for uh making that happen so this is just the actual construction costs it includes the soft costs and contingencies that are wrapped into that so it's both um hard and soft cost so that is the the piece that looks at relocation of the boat launch heav thank you the second part of the project is exploring the design of the downtown Shoreline through Lakeside Memorial Park and um I think of of note the photos that you see on this image are telling because um the the shoreline through Lakeside Memorial Park is fairly Stark um it's Turf and rip wrap and I'm pretty sure I think Dave is pretty sure there was a time when there was a lot more there maybe trees some amenities some benches um Furnishings things like that but over time with ice action um many of those things have been uh ripped away so a big part of our strategy in charge and looking at this is how do we potentially solve this issue of ice action um and the you know the significant flow and and wave action also on on Forest Lake next slide have thank you so uh we looked at precedents in other parts of uh the country as well as North America we looked at uh understanding kind of what is happening and those first couple of sketches that um I did just explore you know this is the situation you've got there's rip wrap you've got ice and water flowing into the shoreline um the ice expands or the ice is driven into the shore it pushes the rip wrap or in some cases Furnishings Landscaping uh the bolt launch itself up onto the shore and City Crews come back every spring and put things back in place so one yeah thanks Abby um so one of the things that other places are using is this strategy of tipped really large Stones like you see in the bottom image where there is essentially a stack of stones that are um laying against a shoreline so that when the ice flow does come in or even the wave actions do come in they uh push against and then up almost like a snow plow um against that Shoreline so it creates um a way of protecting the shore and the things that are behind it in a more natural way thanks Abie so we looked at as part of this uh uh exploration we looked at a couple of different concepts the the um Advisory Group gave feedback to all of those and um essentially kind of landed on most of the things that you see in the lower one next slide if you would Abby which is Illustrated in this uh image and essentially it creates two boardwalks or peers that approach the water's edge from the interior of the park one toward the South one toward the North and they would have elevation as well so one of the things that um we we looked at as part of the park is that everything is at the same elevation so an opportunity to get people up in the air a little bit as they approach the water's edge would be a we think a a really great opportunity and something that creates a little more interest on the shoreline so those peers um jut out to the water's edge they also are tipped upward and then there's a really prominent prominade that connects each of those peers as well as the trails and and things that are happening to the south in the north the shoreline itself uses that concept of the stack stones in most of the areas except one area where we actually would be Excavating or suggesting to excavate out and create a storm water sink back from the shoreline so right now all of the uh Overland flow and grass clippings and things from the park can um flow directly into the lake this is a way to pre-treat some of the storm water in the park itself before it makes its way to the W to the lake um and remove some of that phosphorus as well as creating amenity landscape amenity in that area you can see in that spot also that um the suggestion is to pull the boardwalk in that zone a little bit farther away from the shoreline so the prominade would not be impacted by ice in that spot and it also would be elevated over this uh new kind of storm water infiltration Basin so it be act like a boardwalk through that zone landscaping amities and Furnishings would all be constructed or placed um behind that um snow plow Stone um uh Shoreline so that as the ice comes up it would break off and just fall to the ground rather than pushing things that are behind it so that's the overall strategy next slide if you would ammy thanks we also looked at how this plays with the uh the docks that are there the multi dos and the transient slips and the consensus I think among the group is to consolidate the dock so that they're not two separate marginal docks connecting to shore between your boat club and the transient slips that there would be just one marginal dock making its link to the Shoreline and then uh the multi-d do system would serve both and this shows uh configuration before uh the boat launch is relocated or if the boat launch never gets relocated the one to the left shows how the how the um docks system would work in that configuration the one to the right shows more of an ultimate condition where after and if the bolt launch is relocated and that becomes more of a kayak tie up uh space and a a little Sand Beach area for that use um that the multidock system could move to the north creating better views from the park um into the lake so again we looked at costs as part of this one um and essentially uh they come to about $1.4 million again for um for hard and soft costs associated with this Improvement um maybe in closing I'll just mention one thing it it's money it's a lot of money to think about especially given the last conversation that yeah uh you had with Ryan but um one of the things that I've seen at working with communities and their downtowns for now 35 years or something like that is that um I encourage you and I always encouraged my clients now that I've begin begun to understood this over the last couple of decades that it's important to not only look at the cost but the return so think of it as an Roi equation and um what I found and it's anecdotal but what I found is that communities that invest in their public realm within the downtown core um see returns especially in tax base and property valuation and activity and development Investments that far outweigh the costs that they put into those expenses so not to diminish this really significant suggestion for expenditure um but I think it's something that you would see significant returns from I'm happy to answer any question questions thank you Bruce Bruce in your memo uh you talked about the one launch area there that is probably eligible for DNR possible help but there again we don't have no idea what that property might be worth or whether or not the folks would be willing to sell even have you right checked with anyone or talked to anybody about that at all we looked at uh property tax records yeah um which are not always a good indication of what value is um I have not had any conversations with anyone in the community I'll turn it over to Abby to talk about whether or not any of that has happened because it seems like that's the only real real alternative we have if we are ever going to make anything work that'd be the only spot and so if that doesn't work we'd have to forget it you know um but to follow up on council member husniks inquiry we have reached out to the land owner we haven't heard uh whether or not they have any interest oh okay so you reach out to them we have yep it just be nice to know exactly where we're at with that they are aware that we are interested and we would love to have a conversation with them well you can either have a solid yes or a solid no you know so it'd be nice to at least he can go from there and that answer may change next year right exactly yeah yeah do you do you mind flipping back to the um the design the recommended design on the boat launch um because I I would which one would you yeah this one yeah I would agree I I I think it's helpful to have a couple of different options considered and I can appreciate that there were even more options than what were considered kind of the finalists but I would agree with council member husnik that you know if we were to actually consider that move and going through that effort of that move it really I I think we would we I think we'd be poorly served if we didn't have a complete solution meaning location and also trailer parking and so that alternative B seems to be what provides that um and then I think you know it's a question for a night different other than tonight we don't need to make that decision now I think the question then is you know timing of that and when that project if we wanted to pursue that type of a project how we fit that into the um you know upcoming discussions with the DNR on that launch renewal um but I think all of those are kind of future considerations just the having the study and having the options and some estimated costs I think is exactly what we were looking for and getting the study done so we at least have a foundation to make some future decisions move the ball forward yeah exactly yeah Council other questions or points of discussion related to the study or questions about what was covered in the study and the plans proposed on the down downtown uh or the beach piece with this can you explain a little more this raised kind of platform and what that what that is or what that would look like yep it's fairly I don't have any sketches of it but um relatively simple so you think of Lakeside Memorial Park most of the elevation through the park is about the same so think of a um a walkway um that is fairly wide 10 12 feet at the beginning and then it widens out as it approaches the shoreline something more like 16 starts at the elevation of the park and then as it approaches the shoreline It elevates Up 3 four five feet so at the face of it it's more like a pier if you can think of a ocean front or Lake Superior front Pier you know they're elevated above the water elevation a little bit so that's what this would be and then the connecting Trail or the prominade between the two the north one and the South one would start at that elevation and then dip downward um as it moves either north or south of each one so that there's a little more of a dynamic um movement if you're a person who is walking along the shoreline it's not a straight flat experience you get a little bit different angle a little bit different view both looking back toward the downtown as looking out to the water um you get above the boat elevations just a smidge um so it just creates a little bit more of a dynamic Edge along that Shore did anything carrying that through to more of a actual Pier did anything over the years we've talked about a fishing pier having kids to be able to get out there and fish was that ever brought up in any in any of the plan or study I don't think we talked about that in The Advisory Group um these would certainly work for fishing um they would they would March their way right up to the edge of the shore at least during normal water elevation or normal uh yeah times of water elevation it's fairly shallow that's a shallow Shoreline um I don't know if there's great fishing but it would probably be possible yeah I like the idea of combining that dock as well for that view shed and you know to anything to help erode the shore keep from eroding the shore if that concept works for these slabs basically if that helps it seems like a a good idea to to look into agree is there a way that um the the plan on the slide right now is there a way that that could be phased over multiple broken up into smaller segments um yes we could take it in multiple phases y for instance and we did not look at that as part of the part of the approach however um it would be easy to look at you know this slide that's on the the screen screen right now and do the north pier and relocate the docks um as an example and do that first um so it certainly Could Happen um or you could start at the southern Edge and March your way to the north so it's very possible very good Council any other questions points of discussion all right Bruce thank you for the work on this thanks so much thanks Council the requested action tonight is to and I just lost my lost my place I think I've got it page 157 yes I move to accept the downtown downtown Shoreline redesign and boat launch relocation study is presented is that a motion that is a motion motion is there a second a second we have a motion and a second any further discussion I would just maybe this is just obvious but encourage us to to um kind of bring these items back or to think about timing of NE our next action given um time frame with the DNR and just kind of mapping that out and we can I know staff will be working on that we can kind of talk about what that plan might look like but I think that's kind of our next step once we approve the study but any other discussion hearing none all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose and motion carries all right our next item is the administrative Services director job description and authorized advertising Christina uh mayor and Council as you know the assistant City administrator rle has been vacant for almost a year now um you looked at this position as part of the DDA organizational Staffing study earlier this year we had some conversations um at the February 12th meeting um and it seemed that the direction was to go um to replace that position with an administrative Services director who would have a strong emphasis in human resources and so in your packet is a a job description as well as a position profile that we would use to market the the position um while the city the previous administrator did try to recruit for an administrative Services director last year um from the job description I found at that time it seems they just plopped HR duties onto the already existing job description of the assistant um as you'll see this is kind of reworked there's no airport Commission in here for example like your previous assistant did and really highlights those HR functions um the position would oversee the clerk and the communication uh functions that that role provides um again in your packet it it uh is the position profile it has some of the same wording that you saw for the city administrator profile I thought how we describe our city should be the same regardless of the position um but then some um lay out the responsibilities leadership opportunities uh required and desired um capabilities that we'd like to see from that next position similar to your Finance director and Community Development director um would be a a grade nine on the non-union wage scale uh tenative deadline for applications propo is uh about a month a month from tomorrow so June uh 14th with the position being raised um to a grade 19 whereas the previous assistant City administrator was in a grade 15 this position would um could I should say could cost more than that previous position however as I noted in there you would we are not proposing as you know from the long range um Staffing plan that we discussed last month adding an nhr position and so when we combine those two um including with a restructuring that we did for the clerk earlier this year um there's a a net uh fiscal benefit to the city to go this route um and with that maybe I will just answer any questions that you have otherwise we're looking for approval tonight of the job description as well as um authorizing staff to go out and begin recruiting for this thank you Christina let's open it up Council questions or feedback on the requested action tonight I think this is something we've been needing for a while no question about that since then stand left and uh rather I don't know anything about the description at all I read through it but there's lots there too yeah this as I read through this is consistent with kind of how our conversations have evolved for this role um you know we had started the conversation as part of the budget process very strong in more of an HR function and combining that into this combined position I think makes a lot of sense for just the many hats that um the previous role in in Dan and his previous role um War so I I'm happy to support this and um really um excited to see the candidate pool that this type of a role might bring forward and also I appreciate Christina's work in the kind of the um Equity of POS of position of rank and making sure we're consistent with the department heads um I I think that's just time is right for that alignment so nice work in getting that done um so a couple thoughts on on this I I know that we're our size of our organization is just that borderline where do you need a full-time HR person or not we go back and forth I think some of the problems we've had in the past uh probably would have been avoided if we had a strong HR maybe role or individual you know full-time uh but if Christ you feel comfortable that this position shared like that for the size this size of organization is is enough HR I do yep and the other part of this I'm I'm glad that the airport manager pieces taken out of this person this this description agree M mayor I'll make a motion to approve the administrative Services director that job description has presented and authorize staff to advertise the position at grade 19 on the non-union wage scale I'll second you have a motion in a second any further discussion hearing none all those in favor signal by saying I I I oppose and motion carries um next item consideration of the Rice Creek Watershed District 2024 rule revision comment letter and Abby thank you mayor ban members of the council as the council may be aware the city of forest lake is situated in two different Watershed districts race Creek Water district and comfort Lake Forest Lake Watershed District um we work with both of these Watershed districts on building permit review and other land disturbance activities um for both public and private projects and um as part of this we have found that there can be some challenges um in working with the watersheds in their rules and how they work with our rules or other local state and federal rules uh Weiss Creek Watershed District regulatory manager did request um comment on their rule revisions that will happen this year for implementation January 1st 2025 based on our staff conversation and that was full development team including our legal uh we drafted an enclosed letter for the council's consideration to send to um Rice Creek Watershed District we would also CC Comfort Lake Forest Lake Watershed District essentially uh the letter highlights some of the areas that we would really like their con consideration um to help bring better partnership between our organizations and align our regulations included on those that just a really high level consideration adopting rules that closely align with the state regulatory standards um consider Provisions to credit Redevelopment sites for existing in privious surface areas consideration of a payment for credit system to offset on-site requirements consideration of a regional cost share that meet but don't not necessarily exceed Regional flood control and water quality goals and consider reducing Wetland buffler with requirements when there's documentation lesser uh with a buffer would be sufficient um we hope the enclosed letter would provide the districts with greater understanding of how their rules are affecting our community um but also we really hope that this would just help spur additional future conversations between our agency and theirs and how we can better align our organizational goals so tonight staff recommend recomends you review the enclosed memo and if you're favorable staff recommends the council move to authorize the mayor to sign the race Creek Watershed District 2024 rule revision initial comment letter thank you Abby Council feedback how often do they update their rules um I would defer to Ryan on that one Ive since I've only been with the city a couple years this hasn't occurred since I've been here every city council I think they do it every five years unless something special has arisen that they've had some in between there but we really haven't taken a stab like not a stab but we haven't put the effort into something like this for was it 16 back in 2016 so this is I think timely obviously may have heard some of the challenges that you know when we go through these site Redevelopment projects and stuff that were trying to achieve that s sometimes seems nearly impossible when you think about the bigger picture you know with such a little footprint here but then out in the agriculture area where the significant runoff is really the issue and that's you know where the buffer areas have been established there but so know long story there but uh I think every five years they go through this process full full process do you know when the Comfort Lake Forest Lake rules are up for RW I think they're a year behind and there's been a point too we've had everybody in the room including the city of Wyoming when we were in the other Watershed District so this is good I mean we've had some big meetings right in here too but this is something I think is needed and timely and nothing less restrictive than what the data requires MH any other points of feedback ready for a motion if anyone's ready I'll make a motion to authorize the mayor to sign the Rice Creek Watershed District 2024 rule revision initial comment letter second we have a motion from council member valento a second from council member Ericson any further discussion hearing none all those in favor signal by saying I I I oppose motion carries and final item on our regular agenda this evening is the Community Development intern request and Abby thank you mayor Bay members of the council um prior to me coming on board in 2022 the city would uh hire a full-time temporary intern to assist with zoning Administration and code enforcement during 22 and 23 I elected to not have those internship positions because we were on boarding new staff at the time um one staff on boarding at a time seems fairly reasonable when we're still kind of figuring out what our development department is looking like um for an undetermined amount of time Additionally the C the city has hired a seasonal part-time staff to be the day of Arts in the Park Farmers Market coordinator um and would also help with Park reservations and marketing efforts so given the V recent vacancy in the park supervisor position and that's a position that generally would take a few months to fill anyways Community Development Department is in need of current ongo going support for the 24 um kind of summer season we have um kind of shifted some duties Don will be our full-time kind of market manager of Arts in the park or on the ground face she's been able to kind of do that where we've slid around some of our zoning duties and development duties between Ken and I um what we're looking tonight when looking tonight is your consideration of approval of a 20 24 summer intern for the Community Development Department it would be a combination of responsibilities that would include some zoning Administration answering resident inquiries site visits some of that code enforcement violation notice drafting looking at some policy research and program development and then assisting with some of that facility management that Parks facility reservations event permit review that sort of thing um the position would probably be about 2third of the time focused on planning zoning and about a third of the time on Park and Recreation matters and I understand that you might wonder how it is if we've lost a full 10 person we'd only do about a third on that Park and Recreation Donna is really stepping up in that role and part of that is to really just kind of assess those operations to have a current full-time staff here to be at face of some of that very strong public interaction was really important at least for me in the Department's Administration so uh we had hire we had budgeted the fund for a position um in the Parks programming budget and so what staff is essentially asking is that we could utilize those funds for a Community Development intern position for 12 weeks this summer um if the council's favorable city council would move to approve the advertising of an intern for the Community Development Department for the summer of 2024 thank you Abby um counil questions might we have any questions concerns I think this is a great opportunity obviously we have need also just great um learning opportunity for somebody who's looking for an internship timing aligns well um yeah so I really don't see any downside on why we wouldn't support this tonight um so thank you for the opportunity to review I would move that Council approve the Community Development Department internship request as outlined by Abby is there a second I'll second have a motion and a second any follow-up discussion hearing none all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose motion carries all right that ends our um Regular agenda this evening we do have a number of items on our discussion agenda um those are these are Workshop only topics um so we will see us far um a little more informal in our approach we will not be voting on any of these topics and anything that we talk about that requires some official action will come back before Council on a regular agenda in the future um so let's get started uh first is contracted communication services and Christina yeah me and Council last fall when there was the two vacancies in the administration department the deputy Clerk and assistant administrator role um the previous administrator signed a contract with pachy to provide some communication services such as social media management which is mainly Facebook for the city and the email marketing which is the weekly emails that go out on um Fridays the cost for those Services is $3,500 a month um a copy of the contract was included in your packet we are able to cancel that with a 60-day notice um at at any time so uh before we initiated that I wanted to have that conversation with the council if that's a service that you would like to see us continue maybe expand on um part of the idea is that now that we have our city clerk role filled um those duties those communication duties were per the job description supposed to fall within that Clerk's role um and and I think that um Jolene is um more than capable of taking those on and and has been watching things and in some cases even getting updates out um rather than than going through pachy just because we can do it quicker and more efficient rather than having to wait for a consultant to do it um the one thing that I wouldn't be able to guarantee that would happen is um pachy has done a good job of developing our brand if you look at all of our Facebook posts they've you know got the logos on there and the color scheme and all of that um I don't know that it's worth the um time and and effort for Jolene to come up with that I think it's more important though to get the information out much like our neighboring communities do um and so I wanted to have a conversation with Council to see if that was important to you that we keep uh professional level Communications folks not to say that Jolene isn't sorry um but a Contractor on to do these um these communications or if you'd be okay if uh staff gave them notice that we'll be canceling that and bring it in house thank you Christina Council thoughts well I I would support canceling it myself it's especially if we already advertising for the other position it's just one comment yeah I would I would agree um I pich's done a nice job with um kind of the visual imagery of the um of our post but I I think there's some some ways for that still to be accomplished without having that full professional polish I am assuming that they have a suite of tools to use to produce that that we just don't have so I can appreciate ours will be different but also um it's the timeliness it's the kind of the the responsiveness that if we're able to take it inh house certainly worth the opportunity I agree yeah I agree as well all right we will provide them that notice perfect very good um we're going to move on to a consideration of um city code it's specifically 3155 through 3159 regarding the airport commission and Christina yeah mayor and Council um given all the the airport uh discussion lately I thought that it might be a good idea to look at the ordinance that uh created the airport commission it was originally adopted back in 2001 and has only had a couple of minor updates since then um so copies in your packet um I did gather a bunch of information from other airports I took the list of airports that the city previous City staff had used in 2016 when they did a rate analysis or a rate comparisons that's why I selected the ones that are in your packet um with the exception I think Rush City didn't get back to me I did reach out to them but um that's why they're not on the on the chart um and one of the things you know and as we were talking about the Parks Commission ordinance and changes that might come out there um and and most of your commissions do not have voting council members on them and so that's one um suggest suggestion um that I'd like some feedback on on whether or not we should change the code so that this is more uh um we still have a council member assigned there but it would be a non-voting ad hoc member that's language that I took out of your code for the Human Rights Commission so that's where that consistency comes from um again they'd still be able to attend the meetings participate in the discussion um they just would have that vote there U much like how you have council member of valento as the liaison to parks and the parks and rec commission and you have council member Roberts as it lays on to the Planning Commission and and other things like that um second change that I'm suggesting because I can't find bylaws is that um he would also have them select their Vice chair and a secretary um each year I see I have a little typo in there I would correct that before I brought it back for a final vote but um or maybe not so that's the second thing um and then thir thirdly and really small nitpicky thing but in 31.58 it mentions that they shall meet monthly or more often on the call of the chair they have been meeting I think every other month maybe once a quarter kind of as needed and so maybe you want to change that to quarterly or more often as needed so that would you know quarterly would allow and including that or more often language would allow them to continue their every other month meeting um other than that uh you know like feedback on those three ideas and if there's anything else in the um commission ordinance that you would like to update do we need I'm just jumping in on a small knit but do we need to outline in the ordinance the meeting frequency or could we instead just reference the U meeting calendar that's adopted annually by city council and that way we can on an annual basis we already have a mechanism to evaluate what is the frequency there's times there's a lot of activity happening and we might want to meet we meet have that commitment of um monthly but there's other times I think even more recently it's been more on than every other month and I just hate having that detail dug into the ordinance if we can have something else to point to there's been times we even met more than once a month depending on what's going on there's got to be some flexibility there right and we can also always call a special meeting as needed especially if there's projects that need to be considered um but if we can not have that in the ordinance would be a small knit I would point out any feedback on either that or some of the more substantive changes that Christina has proposed well there's a there's a couple um TR is there airport is the airport manager mentioned in here of any significance in their role I don't believe it is at all no that'd be some of them you know looking through the other ones that are specifically called out I'd see that'd be something that we're making change changes we got to we ought to incorporate that you want to have the airport manager referenced in the code yeah I mean there there are in the other I'm not sure why but I what was the reason you want well for first of all at the Forest Lake airport we need a Airport Manager about 1% of the time the rest of the time it's taken care of by staff or the or the airport commission itself and so we want to be really careful that we're not um SP spending money that's unnecessary there we're we're a state funded airport we're not a federally funded airport and I know one of the examples that uh was used in uh this discussion was Buffalo they have uh federal funds they can they get $150,000 a year from the feds to do these certain things and uh uh I would hate to see our budget killed um when we use that money for for improvements out there there so we got to be you know I I I think we need a an airport manager but it's certainly not a full-time job not not I didn't say it was a fulltime job no I'm not just making that statement so that we don't get into uh describing it that way that's all yeah it was I'm suggesting it was a full-time position and could sorry to interrupt um council member Ericson could you expand on that so I just did a quick word search and you're right there's like 37 times the word manager shows up is it about just referencing that the commission provides recommendations to them or is there something specific that you'd like to see around that role um you know for example looking at Fleming I don't know is that a federally funded as well sou St Pauling is okay this one right after just you know they were non- voting members I mean I again I'm just looking at some of these other ones and I mean ours is pretty petite compared to some of these other you know we don't have to add a bunch of words for the sake adding words but um just the question was is there anything else we wanted to add it and I just thought it was a safe discussion so I brought it up but is maybe something better to have a conversation at the Joint Workshop rather than tonight's Workshop where everybody oh no that agenda's getting long well it's like you know we've been asking for it for a while now so I imagine so the so the airport Comm so the the goal of the ordinance is to outline so we outline powers and duties we outline membership and we outline kind of meetings reports administrative control right like those are the primary purposes [Music] um do we have um so I'm I'm just I'm think I'm thinking about the question of whether if if we've got membership you know identifying I mean naturally the airport manager whether whatever their capacity they have been a member they have been a participant on the airport commission not voting I would agree that's I think that example I'm not sure that we need but if there's You' want them there right it and and I didn't think of that I totally missed it um council member Ericson it's something that I can take some time to review further to see how they reference it but I do agree if if the point is to just mention them as a non- voting member you don't you don't really need that I don't I don't know that we do that with the rest of our staff and our commissions but I could I could double check that um but that's why I was wondering if you had a specific area that you want or how you wanted them to be referenced the other part of this if uh you know if you didn't want me voting for whatever reason that's no big deal to me you know however there are other airports you look that the uh council member chairs the meeting yeah so so the chart that I have there you'll see that it's it's not that unusual uh It's Not Unusual at all yeah so that's why I put that chart in the report um so if it ain't broke why are we fixing it well I I think it might be a little different when when a council member is a property owner at the airport as well so we need to Define that and and call that out well in this case and the and the the point about the airport manager only 1% that's the reason why we have so many problems out there that's why we're getting emails on a weekly basis problems the email the email we got let me finish let me finish the email the comments I get the email we all received this weekend these are the the problems the tractor being used where it shouldn't be I mean these are all things that if we had an airport manager that was doing a good job that was that was committed to this we wouldn't have these issues if you're drinking that Kool-Aid you got a problem I'm here to tell you here we go again with the comments from councilman this is this is it's it's all about the airport all all that stuff has been settled and I'm not sure why he's still out there s what's settled we're getting emails still so let's go back to the question about what do we want the airport commission code to say um I I do think I I do think there's value in in the airport manager being maybe referenced referenced in referenced in some way I think what as I'm just thinking about this what makes it awkward is we don't have that rule well defined today and so to reference it in code when it is you know we don't have it dedicated to a staff person um there's a lot of moving pieces so to then you know take what is not well defined and put it into ordinances well I'm looking at page maybe the larger problem right like we need to so I'm look at page 213 we're just you know the authority of the manager under the supervision of the city administrator shall have the duty of administrating and enforcing all airport ordinances other job duties and responsibility the airport manager should be identified in the job description so I mean it seems pretty broad but it just references that there you know I mean had to have had some responsibilities our past you know dedicated Airport Manager so again it's not calling out that it's a full-time job or anything of that that's been suggested it's just noting that you know the goal is that we have an airport manager and that they have they report to somebody and they have some responsibilities and and I do I I if if that's the path we're on um then having it referenced to the job description as part of the ordinance probably makes sense because then we can you can update the job description administratively without change in the whole ordinance I think that makes sense and and I should have said in um so 239 the Buffalo airport that's an advisory handbook too so some of these maybe it was my fault for adding too much information but I thought that these were some good resources as we continue to to talk about a lot of our airport issues um and so maybe there is a place to house that and and maybe there is a place to at least reference an air airport manager within our ordinance I think we just want to be careful not to get um too detailed right because you don't want to have to update your ordinance every time you want to change a job description or duties or things like that so I am happy to take this issue from this conversation and look at something related to the airport manager and bring it back next time assuming you you know there's interest in at least exploring that which I I think I've heard there is yeah I do I do think we I think we do need to also move I I'll step back I appreciate the the look that there are many times where there is a council member that is voting on an airport commission um I think we have moved away from we've tried to move away from that on all of our other commissions and so making that a non-vote voting member is something we've talked about in Workshop um I think also makes sense is a kind of a good Pivot Point any other concerns on that particular topic or feedback on that particular topic I'm looking forward to the Joint meeting very much yeah and so then to reference back um we have a planned joint meeting with the airport commission at the airport commission's next meeting which is in early June is that correct that first yes it's on June 5th and and we've been referring to it as a joint meeting but is largely um a meeting that because there's just been so much going on with bids coming in a through the fence permit application a new Nursery lease um um the airport guidelines I forget what else there is on there the py updates um it it I just want you to be prepared that it's not it's not intended to be this wide open discussion on stuff there are things that um the airport commission had it not been a joint meeting these would have been on their agenda I just thought it might be helpful to get these two bodies together to start discussing some of these things so if there are more things um after that we can certainly put them on the list um but just so you kind of have that understanding going into what it is be because there are so many things that have come up in just the last month or two um that I do need to get recommendations from the airport Commission on it was kind of this hybrid model that I had suggested to the mayor last month so I don't think anyone would disagree if we need multiple meetings we can certainly do that and certainly an opportunity to vet through um I think I appreciate them reminder Christina that they do have action items that would need to be taken to keep projects moving so let's and it's constant flow of misinformation constant so and that's why I want to get both together right instead of playing this game of telephone or whatever let's get everybody around the table agree Christina any other points of feedback on the airport that you need from us tonight this evening um so I I've got I'm not sure where we landed on the non- voting member then I I kind of heard some differences um do we want to make this a non-voting ad hoc member like the Human Rights Commission are you okay with adding those other positions the vice chair secretary I got the feedback I'll work on some language to reference a a council adopted schedule we'll figure out something with reference to an airport manager but where did we land on a non- voting council member and those other positions I'll stay out of it yeah I think it makes sense non- voting yeah yeah I agree non- voting consistent with our other lays on positions I'm fine with that councilman Roberts anything to add nodding okay okay all right well then um appreciate that feedback this will give me some direction to work on some updates and then we'll bring back the actual ordinance to make these changes at a later meeting okay might be a next month or sometime so okay thank you um our next topic R of way trees Dave exciting topic of trees that are dying um by uh so we're here in probably 2020 uh a few of you were here when uh Emerald ashor was was coming in the city we had the uh Department of Agriculture that was here did a presentation um it's about perfect timing now it's 3 to four years later and a lot of the ash trees have become infested and and are starting to die so um what we're running into now is typically you know Property Owners take care of their own trees so the city's been cutting down a a bunch of trees and city parks and property owners have been taking down multiple ash trees throughout their properties but we're running to any running into an issue where there's trees in the right away especially in urban areas that have ash trees um that we kind of need some direction on um past policy you know before I started and since I've been here the policy has been that if if there the city hasn't allowed trees in the RightWay in urban areas all developments are they have to keep trees planted outside of the RightWay so if they're located in the RightWay they were probably planted by the homeowner you know and not approved by the city so the city stance is always has been through your tree um you need to take care of it you know the city will come through if it's branches are overhanging in the road and we'll trim the trees for safety concerns but you know if a tree needs to come down it would be the property owners um it's worked really well because typically a homeowner is not going to want us to cut down a healthy maple tree in the RightWay because it's a shade tree and it looks nice and everything's great but now there's ash trees in the away that are dying and you know then it's the flip side now that we're we're being asked to take them down at City expense so um that's kind of where we're at we don't really have a a tree policy you know in our ordinance of what we do there um rural areas um we usually just trim right back to the RightWay so if there's whether it's an ash or Maple or anything we go right back to the RightWay line and we'll take it back but in the Urban and we've always been quite sensitive because like I said it's it's an aesthetic to the property where you don't want to touch it but at the same time now that it's dying you know now we're being asked to remove it so Amanda is here uh as well to answer some legal questions you know we're just we're looking for Direction I mean it's it's a financial concern you're talking in Ash Tre depending how old it is and where it's located if it's in power l are near a tree3 to 5,000 a tree I can think of one neighborhood that's probably has 50 trees so you're talking a quar million dollars um so that's why it's Neti deal I know and and what I'm what I'm saying it's it's not that's the worst case scenario but I mean I'm I'm what I'm saying what I'm saying is it's it's not just a we do one thing or the other it's a it's a pretty huge financial burden on the city um so that that's kind of where where we're at um back to 2020 this the city stance was that we're going to provide education we're not going to select a a company to be our contractor for the city to remove trees we're not going to recommend people to treat them so we kind of did a hands-off approach that we're going to provide education and that so we need direction from from all areas you know Financial legal and then policy base and we're just looking for thoughts opinions from the council along with uh Amanda to help legally navigate that too so I will open that up to everybody and help us figure this out Dave when you say a quarter of a million dollars that's just one neighborhood and maybe based on some reaction maybe an aggressive estimate but what do you think how many neighborhoods do you think we have that have are impacted like what is the what is the total exposure it's it's going to be it's going to be your old older section of the Town your Southeast Southwest Northwest North Northeast you newer developments they were really good at keeping them out of the RightWay um shielding circle is a good example that was that was put in the 80s um they were according to the neighbor they were told to planed them outside of the right away but if you look at the map some are outside some are inside some are right on the line you know so those are the ones you run into of you know you'd have to specifically go and measure each tree and see okay is it 7 feet from the back of the curb is is it within the right away is half the tree in the right away is part of it in the right I mean that's there's so many factors that you know and how do you pick and choose and even just the survey to D to go around and hire a survey or just to survey right away is expensive just to tell you if we the right away exactly is and if each where that tree lies so and we don't have staff I mean we don't have staff to take the trees down we don't have the capabilities to survey I mean if we went to just Public Works cutting down ash trees not nothing else would get done I mean you're you're at that you're at that point but if you drive around just in the the older part of town you'll you'll see there's ones right up the back of the curb and there's I if you can imagine anything less than 10 ft would it's probably in the regular so what is our exposure if we don't what if we don't remove those trees and they are if a tree falls in the right away Amanda what happens okay so uh primer on right of way right of way is property that essentially we own but the property owner kind of thinks that they own it because it's going to look like it's part of their front yard most of the time uh but technically it overwhelmingly it's owned by the city occasionally you'll see it as an easement but usually it's not it's fee um and the policies around right away are once you open a right away you have the obligation to maintain it so what that means is when you open it as and you put in a road right you have an obligation to maintain what you've done in the right of way when we're talking about uh trees specifically we have a couple different um layers of obligation when it comes to trees in the right of way so specifically one thing that would be critical for reducing liability is having a specific policy that the city has this is our official tree policy this is what we do with our trees um you know we don't bother with diseased ones we do REM we must remove hazard trees so um what constitutes a hazard there I think there was like a supplement to this that kind of talked about that that the uan puts out that's a pretty helpful handout around that but a hazardous tree is essentially something that is going to or is likely to um be a danger to uh people or cause damage to infrastructure so that's when you're talking about a tree that's about to fall into the right away or whatever if we have a policy that says look we don't have resources to cut every single tree down in the entire city that is on at some various stage of of emerald ashbo um but what we will do is we we have to do a tree inventory and then we look at our most you know egregious offenders and and aim for 5% removal a year 2% removal a year whatever it is that we can justify in our policy related to a reasonable budget uh because today is point you know one neighborhood at $250,000 a year even if that is is uh half half you know even if it's half that $100,000 a year per neighborhood is still a really big number so um it's looking at creating a policy that is manageable given the resources that the city has that will reduce your liability that said if there is a tree that presents a more urgent hazardous situation it is on the the city is obligated to do something about that tree that I want to be clear that means it's going to fall into the right of way or it's going to really fall into the road and hurt somebody if it's in their backyard and it's going to fall on their neighbor's backyard that is not our problem right because it's on the distinction being it's on our property so it's got to be on our on the right of way and putting at risk people people or or or stuff power lines power lines power lines the road just if we think it's going to damage by Falling it's going to create damage on the road it's going to create damage on a parked car th those types of situations and that policy that you referenc that we should have in place we do not is that right we don't have anything on on the books on policy deut reference may be a kind of tradition what we've done is that is that a formal policy or is it no that that's my predecessor before me had that policy and that's what we've continued to do and I mean we've it's been black and white on that policy but it it's not an actual it's not documented or okay and the and the issue issue with trees and Hazard like M say I mean it's objective too right if we if we drove around the rural areas and I cut down every tree that a homeowner called and said looks like it's just about to fall down I mean that's been 10 years ago since that same tree is about to fall down so I mean that's that's another issue you run into of you know who's who's saying that's going to fall down you know I mean there's dead trees everywhere and how do you prioritize that you know and I think part of it I mean do you have a an arborist that is looking at this at these trees that is a professional that looks at these trees I I mean I don't know the difference between a tree that might fall down tomorrow or fall down in 10 years that's that's difficult and an ash tree that is dead because of ashbo could that stand up for another 15 years or fall down tomorrow that that's part that's the hard part of how do you prioritize which ones come down many cities do utilize some sort of an arborist or tree official tree person that has knowledge and that's where they build their inventory so they inventory their their trees and you know that person kind of gives them a ranking of where they fall on the hazard scale or the priority scale and then the policy that's established as a policy that sort of says you know we pick off the top 10 % or whatever whatever it is that financially the city can work into the budget is there anything about um the I lost my train of thought I will come back I will come back should we open open it up other questions thoughts what a big deal this year it is a big deal yeah think you know think about tree removal it's all the way down to getting rid of the stump as well I mean take that on right I mean that's I guess what I'd advocate for as part of our policy when we get to that place of WR a policy yeah I mean that's a whole another animal of stump grinding every single right tree that you cut down to I remembered my follow my followup question is there anything about whether or not the tree was planted by the developer at a prior homeowner whe no like the origins of the tree are irrelevant it exists that's all that we care about yes unfortunately honor Council the origins of the tree are irrelevant um so it's on our property and we have some level of obligation not you know if it's so another city that I work for same issue very different in that that it's a much more uh urban city but they went through and they cut every single ash tree uh down in in the RightWay in the entire city um um and so that was ultimately what they decided to do they retired of sort of waiting they had some other issues where they were affecting the sidewalks and some other things where it was just they needed to go it wasn't going to work um so there are cities that are doing things like that it is not by any means a wealthy city um but they feel like it was a priority and and from that perspective um the bids for removing these trees are so insanely varied it's crazy they got you know a bid for like 2 million bucks and they got a bid for like 500,000 so for the exact same service um so unfortunately it's really hard to estimate what it really will cost or my experience has been that it's difficult to estimate the cost is that fair very fair I mean you go for a a resident that's where I'm throwing out the 3 to 5,000 if a homeowner wants one tree cut down obviously if you're asking for 50 there would be a a difference but right it may come down to do you have a place to dispose of the ash trees to hul them offsite or where's the company coming from and all that I mean there's a lot of lot of variables so and do you pick just ask trees I mean if you if you make a policy of we're going to clear all rightaway trees do you take Pines and Maples and Elms and everything so you clear out your RightWay or you just pick off ash trees I mean then when the maple bug that comes from who knows where in 5 years from now kill infects all the maples and are you back here again asking for it I mean our rural is pretty good that we just go back to the RightWay line and you'll have residents that are you know a little bit irritated but understand the RightWay line and you just clear back to it it's the urban that gets really difficult is you're taking somebody's tree you know and you'd never do that if it was healthy but at the same point like I said before you're in that situation well now it's dead now it now it's our responsibility and the tree that they would never want us to take now we should pay for it that's the tricky part is so if we were to adopt a policy and we were to say we were going to every year take you know the top 3% or 5% or whatever that number would be if a homeowner is concerned about a tree on the RightWay and we say well sorry in in our assessment you're way down here on the list can they're still able to remove that tree right but they're doing it at their own cost or do you put yourselves in this constant Battle of prioritization on who's asking I I worry about the squeaky wheel effect I guess how do you manage and maybe that's why you need the policy just thoughts on that and that's that's the troubling part is that you know we have a we do the the pond inspections right we did that right y five six years ago and we came up with the top 10 list and it's easy to go through that and say we're just doing these top 10 in the next 10 years and then when people call and say my pond is full well we're going to reassess the next but trees could very quickly you know and then how do you say you have an arborist that comes out and says okay here's your top 15 trees that I think are probably worse than the other 300 well how do you know that how that changes or does one die quicker is it one that's in power lines and I mean you're going to need a policy that to stand on that you're going to get homeowners that once if they if there's a poly that says we're going to start removing trees at City expense my phone's not going to quit ringing there somebody else's tree is going to be more important than somebody else's and I mean how do you where do you draw that line where do you draw that line or where do you where do you I mean do you pick with okay here's the ones that an arbor says are the worst ones and the next five years these are ones we're taking and then you reassess after five years and then go and then you just defer off of that or do you have to go out and not have to but I mean you go out and inspect these ones that you get calls and then try to compare them to ones that are on your list it's right you probably prioritize by neighborhood though you're not going to go Tree by tree I mean it'd be more cost effective to say we've got the most Hest trees in this neighborhood and you're just going to clear that out right I mean and then you could tell people people when their neighborhood is on the list this is just such a um challenging part of this argument is people have a perception that the city's going to pay for it versus the individual property owner in reality we're all the city right so everyone's paying for it um and so is there is there are there cities that have a policy that has kind of cracked that Tipping Point where they're able to do it in math and they're able to do it at a price point that now it makes sense of rather than each individual kind of doing their own tree removal when their day comes that everyone's kind of paying in you know and we're we're kind of doing it Citywide um are you able to negotiate pricing that just makes that favorable that it's it's just a better plan to do it Citywide than individual property owner or is it does it just result in I can only speak to the to the one city that did that Citywide and that was sort of why is they felt like one they it was a problem and again they had the sidewalk situation but um they felt like they were able to better control just let's be done with it we understand the cost we're not constantly having to do this kind of game every single year with our rway trees um and and they they did actually get a pretty good price it was an out of state contractor who came and it was literally just I'm going to work this neighborhood to you know today and these streets and within you know three weeks they had the the trees cut down stump grinding however it was and still is a different animal especially when you got gas lines and everything else running through there too yeah yeah well we were wondering where we were going to SP spend all of that extra money right so what do we want to do is there any any examples any other city codes as far as I mean Tre we're talking about trying to come up with a policies or something and we start with a blank sheet of paper or other cities have policies and maybe that's what we need to do next is grab those policies and do an analysis and bring you back some suggestions to get your feedback on yeah I know there's some neighborhoods where you know neighbors it's urgent and I I know it's frustrating to look at a dying or dead tree every day that you feel like the city should be taken down so I can appreciate um frustration with that what is beyond of some spefic specific Property Owners what is the and kind of where we are in the life cycle of emerald ashbo I mean is this highly urgent and we need some plan for execution this fall or what do what do we what's our time like I think you're at that phase of where they're starting to die like it's you know we came in 2020 right when they were coming in and typic that right cycle is is a couple years in then that third or fourth year you notice some you know losing half to three4 of their canopy and that's what homeowners are noticing now that it's not so much the trees about to fall over but you look up and you go yeah that's that's there's barely any leaves on this thing so I mean it I would say it's not dire we need to cut trees down this summer and because they're all about to fall over but probably at a next year probably winter winter is the best time to take trees down so you minimize damage to the RightWay well let's let's start with a policy right and then try to F try to work backwards from policy to what does the funding look like um it it seems like in absence of a policy then we have like this larger liability um and really no direction for funding and so let's maybe start with start with policy first and then we can maybe work backwards into what funding might look like are we looking at just disease trees are we looking at RightWay trees in general I mean and obviously you would prioritize but do we want to have a policy or plan to get rid of all RightWay trees or just the ones that are dying I don't think you want to get rid of all of them you probably want to have a tree policy though that tells you when you trim them back and whether that's they're hitting your plow trucks or fire trucks or they're diseased so it could be the tree policies that I've seen are kind of all encompassing that include those different criteria yeah but not a like we're just going to clearcut everything it's I don't they don't go that far I mean is there another reason so Amanda mentioned you know trees were causing issues with you know sidewalks I mean are there other reasons why we should consider if we're considering we should consider full removal I otherwise I'm I'm likely to agree with Christina that let's just make it based on disease trees or dead hazardous hazardous ex the the only difference would be if like I said there's a maple tree bug that comes through and then all you start this all over again well we call that also hazardous though your policy then then you can start that over again I think we I would argue that your policy isn't going to be just ash trees it's going to be these hazardous trees disease trees dying trees those are the ones that were respons ible to remove tell you this is in other cities a pretty hot button issue people have a lot of opinions about this um so depending on what the policy looks like in terms of of communities having an opinion uh they do and it's varied it's V it's it's varied between neighbor and neighbor yeah I remember growing up we got rid of all our Dutch Elm that was a Dutch elm disease and they clearcut yeah my community suck for a while but trees back I just C down two in my yard they were about this big round 40 years old front yard yeah I think we've got a couple too and two in the back know what to do so the boulevards that's a tough ordinance to write I mean policy it's not going to please everybody that's for sure like to look and see what other cities are doing I don't know if we're going to please anybody this time so that will be the difference yeah um well let's start with a policy um and then go from there can find it to disease trees or something too I don't know yeah so if I'm hearing correctly just research some other City policies come back with recommendation of or some recommendations of what you guys would like for disease trees yeah do we have is there a way that we could get at so along with the policy comes the funding right um do we have a way of knowing what Benchmark communities would be if they have a policy what what those what their annual expenditure is to support that policy I think that's something we could look into also EXP explore if there is any Grant grants through Department agriculture any of that kind of stuff I think all that stuff is on the table to look look into you know before we come back like said like Christina said as well I mean it's something we don't need to decide by tomorrow but we need to have a policy and probably figure something out sooner than later so do it correctly and well thought out and then put on board and then and go from there it's just yeah I've probably had since the Lees of starting coming out I probably had 20 to 30 phone calls and I have about 15 of them I have to call back just because I said we're going to be talking about tonight just to give them an update so it's right I've good and it's going to get and it's going to get worse those are just the people that called you so right just to keep it on your mind and maning myself and staff will we'll work through it and okay come back at a later date with okay thank you very good thank you Dave that is the end of our discussion portion of our agenda let's move to staff updates and we'll start with Jolene no updates this evening all right Abby um just one update you might have seen that we released the Arts in the park entertainment lineup um so that is moving along you approve some contracts tonight you'll see another round of contracts come forward I'm hoping in two weeks I will note that we are a little behind on our vendor approvals and we are working working through all of the approvals in a timely fashion we hope to have everything finalized by the end of this week um probably by next week we'll release our vendor map and the full lineup we're getting a lot of inquiries about which food trucks and will this one be back and so appreciate just with the transition we have with lising our um our uh programming supervisor Jamie mhe that we're have new staff stepping in and really just trying to get that program finalized and up and running June fourth for a full season thank you Abby Christina no updates and Amanda updates Dave I just want to update the water main break we had at Menard's I'm sure that that made made its rounds um I just want to thank staff they they were able to shut down Menards at 11:15 and was reopened at 3:00 so they went down and and fixed the repair and got it back open I know it was nobody was happy about having to shut them down but contractor staff work very hard to get that fixed and back open so just unfortunate but it we did it as quick as we could and we just couldn't let it go it when we stuck the escalator through the first time it was about a three or 4 foot hole underneath the black top ready so we have made the news with the semi being stuck in that hole left it open till overnight so it was the right decision and good we just unfortunate but just thanks the staff for getting it done that quick yeah fabulous good thank you Ryan mayor city council just want to let you know the local Street Maintenance project is starting Monday in the South View Development Area which is south of the water tower and then uh the following Monday May 29th they meet down to 184 streets and then I'll provide more updates as they move through the project that's it very good thank you Ryan Chief no updates all right and Kevin no updates all right let's transition to council counc CC member Roberts I have nothing tonight all right council member valento nothing for me tonight all right council member um husnik uh nothing for me either council member Ericson nothing tonight thank you I would um Echo I also don't have anything I'll just another um fairly lengthy meeting night for Council um coming in with for our special meeting and then we had a special meeting with the Eda so just really appreciate everyone's extra time and staff's extra time to support us in these longer evenings so much appreciated uh that is the end of our plan agenda I will entertain a motion to adjourn so moved second we have a motion and a second all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose and we're adjourned thank you everyone [Music]