Good evening everybody. I'd like to call to order the February 18th, 2026 Forest Lake Parks and Recreation Commission regular meeting. Our first order of business is we have a new commission member, Nikki Searing, and I'll administer the oath of office to Nikki. We go down here, Kyle. Yep. Okay. >> Got a partner over there. >> All righty. Uh, I guess raise your right hand and repeat after me. I, Nikki Saring, >> I, Nikki Saring, >> do solemnly swear to support the Constitution of the United States. >> do solemnly swear to >> support >> support the Constitution of the United States. the Constitution of the State of Minnesota. >> Constitution of the state of Minnesota. >> And to discharge faithfully the duties of commissioner of the Forest Lake Parks and Recreation Commission. >> And to discharge >> And to discharge faithfully the duties of commissioner of the Forest Lake Parks and Recreation Commission. >> City of Forest Lake. >> City of Forest Lake, >> Minnesota. >> Minnesota. >> To the best of my judgment ability. >> To the best of my judgment ability. >> So help me God. >> So help me God. >> Welcome. It's much easier to read than repeat. >> Once we got to 10 words, I'm like, "Oh, boy." >> I don't blame you a bit. That's >> All right, let's do a roll call. And maybe uh you want to do a little bit of introduction for Nikki besides just uh saying hi. Does that sound good? >> Good. >> Okay. Uh Commissioner Lmark >> here. Uh Commissioner Lmark, I've lived in Forest Lake since 1996, so however long that Oh, it's long 30 years. Good lord. Um Yep. So, and I've raised all my kids here and just happy to be a part of this commission. I'm glad to have you here with us, Nikki. >> Thank you. >> Tim Gary, been in town about 40 odd years. This is my second time around in the parks commission. >> Welcome. >> Uh Sue Herdina. I born and raised in Forest Lake. Well, I won't tell you how many years, but but I've been on the commission for one year now. So >> Don Tyson, I've been in Forest Lake since 99 and certainly this is last first year on this on the commission. >> Karen Warhead, a second time on the commission and have lived in Forest Lake for 60 years and happy to be here and we have a wonderful comm community that you can do a lot of fun things and happy to have you on board. >> Thank you. I'm Aaron Eckard. Um transplant here from Florida in 2017 with my family. Uh two kids and a wife when both kids active in the hockey association here. So, welcome aboard. >> Thank you. >> Yep. Commissioner Sar. >> Um we've been uh we moved up here from down in the cities in 2017. So, it'll be coming up on nine years this year. So, I'm very excited to be here. Um, I have young kids in the community, one in sixth grade, one in fourth grade. Um, they play multiple different sports, so we kind of use all that we have to offer up here in the city. So, it's amazing to be a part of, and I'm excited. Thank you. >> You have a dog. >> Two. Two dogs. Welcome. Welcome aboard. >> That didn't take long. >> All right. Uh, pledge of allegiance. If you're able, please stand and join us in the pledge. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> Uh approve the agenda. Does anybody have any additions or corrections? If not, a motion to approve would be in order. >> Tim moves. >> I'll second. I think that was an air and second. Uh all in favor? >> Opposed? Agenda's approved. Open forum. Do we have any citizens to speak tonight? Looks like we have have one. Welcome. >> Hi, my name is Karen Dicki and um I didn't know I was going to have to speak. I thought I was just here for support, but I've been talking to Kyle about um the possible dog park that he's working on. And um I reached out to him a while back because my I am um in I was babysitting my granddog and wanted to bring u him to a park and was just shocked that Forest Lake didn't have one. Um so I've and then I've then a year went by and then I reached out and Kyle had said that you guys were meeting on this. So, um I have been to many dog parks around the area and I really, you know, many of them are very nice. I kind of talked to Kyle a little bit about what um I I you know, what you kind of look at for in Forest Lake um and he gave me a little bit of information, but um I'm definitely uh willing to do some work with what needs to be done to get a a park. I um just again I'm just surprised that we don't have one. Um I live out on the lake and I see people like driving out to the middle of the lake using the lake as a park which is great. Um and I'm teach you know I have a it's a puppy so we're training her to do that but you know in the summertime there's really no place to to go. Um, and I just look around and see the, you know, so many opportunities. So, Kyle, I'm not really sure what you you want from me just or do you have questions or >> No, this was just just to provide the feedback for the commission just because we're actively working on that. Um, that's something we talked about back in December and January. We'll have a little staff update on it, but we don't have a full report tonight. But just that's perfect what we need for the commission to hear from community members. >> Happy to answer questions. Happy to have you here. >> Thanks for coming out. >> Thanks. Bye. >> All right. Nobody else. We will move to the next item. Approve the meeting minutes from our January 21st meeting. Any corrections to the minutes? >> I have a correction. So, I would move approval with the correction. >> Okay. It was kind of listed that I was still maybe thinking a three acre park was what I was looking for when I got a message from um Florida and they showed me pictures of different dog parks and I realized at that time that three acres might be a little bit hefty for Forest Lake, but we do want a really good dog park and therefore this commission has been talking with the staff about maybe finding alter alternative spots or looking at what would be available. So, I just wanted to corrected that I was no longer stuck on the 3 acre park. >> And just to clarify that 3 acres was large enough, but you weren't necessarily thinking larger than three acres. >> No, I was not thinking three acres. Once I saw the film from Florida, I realized what three acres looked like. And I had to admit, for once in my life, I was wrong. I'm surprised that wasn't in the minutes. Well, now I have to admit it again. >> Can we get that in the minutes, please? >> Twice now. >> It's what, you know, you look at the size and some of them are 70. I didn't know what three acres look like, but it was quickly I was quickly shown what it was and that's too big. So, I wanted to continue and I'm glad we have another dog owner up here, but certainly the commission I hope will still be working on it, but looking at a size that would fit for Forest Lake and take care of the puppies and dogs. So Karen, in the paragraph that you talked about that just you want to strike the part that says and a threeacre park would be a good start, >> right? >> Okay. >> So the motion is to approve the minutes with striking that uh those seven eight words there, Kyle. Any other corrections? >> No. Move approval. >> Karen's moved approval. A second with that amendment. >> I'll second. >> Sue seconds. All in favor? >> I. >> All righty. And then just to note that Nikki's Yep. vote will be refrained just because she wasn't here for that last meeting. So just Yep. The motion will move 660 6. >> Okay. >> All righty. Next item, staff report on Hidden Creek South from Community Development. >> Yes. Thank you. While you're putting on the uh clerk uh for my uh PC, I just want to share with uh Commissioner Eckard that I also have moved here from Florida, but you use transplant. I refer to myself as a refugee. So, I think you have better memories back there back in Florida than I am. Born and raised, so uh making it through a a nice winter uh up here. And if anybody needs uh any advice on where to go in Florida, I'm sure I can point you on some directions. Uh but today we're here to uh discuss uh Hidden Creek South. Now this is a preliminary plat plan unit development. You previously heard uh last April a concept plan. It's being brought to us by Headarters Land Group. It's the same uh developer who has developed the rest of Hidden Creek. This is the continuation of those efforts. This slide shows the location of this proposed uh Hidden Creek South development. The development includes two parcels on the southwest part of the city. The extension of Headarters Parkway will run through the middle of the site, essentially bisecting the two parcels right down the the property line. The development includes about 171 single family homes on about 56 and a half acres. After removing wetlands, the estimated net developable area is about 55 and a half acres. The city code requires that 10% of the net area be dedicated for parkland. That comes out to about 5 and a half acres. The applicant is proposing approximately two and a half acres of land dedication along with cash and loo to meet the full requirement. No park improvements are proposed at this time only land and this is at the recommendation of community development and park staff. It's important to remember that the dedication calculation applies only to hidden creek south wetlands and storm water ponding areas cannot count d to toward the required acreage. This map comes from the uh city's 2040 comprehensive plan. Uh between 2020 and 2021, the former parks, trails, and lakes commission supported combining parkland into one larger neighborhood park instead of having multiple smaller parks. This direction informed this 2040 comprehensive plan. In accordance with that direction, this map shows that this general area where that arrow is pointing has been identified as a future neighborhood park area. The exact location is not locked in, but the plan expects park land to be added as development happens. This supports the idea of combining land from different phases to create one larger neighborhood park in this part of the city. And that development being proposed would would support the implementation of the city's comp plan. The city has reviewed park planning for this area before. As part of the earlier Hidden Creek development, about 3.17 acres of parkland were dedicated west of Headwaters Parkway. This area is directly to the north of the property that we're talking about today. That area shown in green on the map. That previously dedicated acreage is not included in the 10% calculation for Hidden Creek South since each plat meet its own requirement. However, when you look at the previously dedicated 3.17 acres together with the proposed dedication in Outlaw A, which is labeled in red there, which is directly south of this previously dedicated park, the total area supports the earlier direction of creating one larger neighborhood park. In addition to Outlaw A, developer has proposed the additional dedication of land within Outlot C in the southeast of the proposed development. In April 2025, during concept plan review, staff estimated a need of about five to six acres and clarified that storm water ponds cannot count toward required park dedication. This is a breakdown of the usable acreage in the proposed park areas. Outlaw A is about 3.22 acres total. Now, none of these are final. These are estimations based on the conversations we're having with the developer. So, uh this is just should just be looked at as kind of a rule of thumb. about 1.3 acres of the storm water ponding leaving about and 1.3 acres of that 3.22 acres is storm water ponding leaving about 1.92 acres of usable land. Outlot C is then the bottom uh southeast corner is about 088 acres total and about 4 acres is wetland. There's a wetland that really uh exists right in the middle of the property leaving about4 acres of usable land. City code requires that park dedication excludes wetlands and storm water areas and equal 10% of the net developable acreage. So the focus tonight is on usable acreage, park configuration, and whether the proposal meets the full dedication requirement. The commission is asked to review whether the proposal meets this 10% requirement, whether the park configuration is usable, and whether the land and cash combination is appropriate. At the concept stage, the developers showed park improvements. Their current proposal shifts to dedicating land and providing cash in loo with no improvements proposed at this time. Again, this was at the recommendation of community development and park staff. Staff recommends that permanent trails not be built within the dedicated parkland at this stage so the park area can be graded flat and kept flexible for future design. For the staff report, staff recommends the commission discuss the proposal and recommend approval to the city council of a combination of land and cash in loo ensuring the total dedication equals 10% of net developable acreage. Uh the developer is here if you have any questions for him. Do you have any questions for me? >> Members, any questions for Stephen? >> We have discussed this development before. So >> and did I hear? Excuse me. >> Yeah. Don't go. >> Did I hear you say that it's back now to the combined acreage for the park to be used one bigger park rather >> the the acreage especially with outlaw A would be combined with the previously identified and dedicated 3.17 acres to make them more or less five five and a quarter acre uh park with a a storm water pond feature there. It's been a while, but I think that's what the other previous commission had talked about. And um but no park would be developed at this point. Just >> it would be the parkland dedication and it would be up to to Kyle and the team to start programming that as we go. >> Okay. >> Be a good spot for your dog park. >> I didn't want to mention that. Poor guy's just coming in with a development. I'll give him a minute. >> Three acres though. You just said three. I I mean I just it just makes so much more common sense to have a larger area than little ones here and there. So >> kind of talk about the no permanent trails within the parkland at this time. Is there going to be um how is the walking going to be to the parks? Is it going to be on the streets? Is it going to be sidewalks? What's going to happen there? >> If I know if you can go back to one of those originally there's this shown that a trail would go through there as part of the development. You can see that either one of those that that line that yeah the shaded line that goes makes comes up off a headway headwaters Parkway. >> Okay. >> We we are just suggesting that that doesn't put in because we haven't really designed the park and that might not be in the right spot or we may want to make a loop around the entire park or we don't know exactly where the playground's going to go. So we just want flat land. So then myself, Kyle, public works can can design a a concept that will be reviewed by you to to be the overall plan. We just don't want to have to try to work around a trail if that's not really where we want it to be. >> Excellent. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions or comments? >> If not, I think there's a motion that's in the memo that somebody could make. to accept the parkland and cash that the one >> um let's see we're here. It would recommend the city council approve the parkland dedication proposal allowing for a combination of land and cash in lie of land dedication. >> So moved. >> Okay. Sue moves it. >> Second. Second by Tim. Any more discussion? All in favor? >> I opposed. All right. >> Look forward to it. >> Thank you, Stephen. >> Thank you for your work on that. >> Thank you all. >> Thanks, Stephen. Nice presentation. >> Yeah. Thank you. All right, our next item is a staff report on our parks master plan update. Kyle, >> so we have Josh here with Bolton and Mink. He's going to give us a presentation. Just give me 30 seconds to get it up. >> Thanks for having me. Um, >> thanks for coming whether whether the roads are snowy or not. Um I uh and I know a couple of the commission members have also been sitting on the steering committee. So um at any point if uh there are questions uh or you have things to add, feel free to to jump in. It's really meant more as a as a progress update and a a conversation more than than a presentation. Um so we have been m meeting uh we had our third um steering committee meeting actually earlier this afternoon. Um really looking at park system plan. Uh this board is actually one that we are proposing to use as part of a set of I think six currently um for an open house that is scheduled for next Monday the 23rd in the community room between 4 and 6. Go ahead and go to the next. Um and the next one again. Um so schedule this just kind of brings us up to date. uh you know kind of kicked things off at least from the contracting side and starting to pull things together in October. Um got the steering committee committee uh seated so we had that first meeting in early December. Tried to to get some materials so that we could work over the holidays and then come back together in January, midFebruary and then today. uh we'll have at least one more meeting in uh mid-Marchch where we hope to uh to have a full draft of the uh park plan so that the um steering committee can start looking through that and then seeing what we need to do to kind of get it in finalized state. Uh and then we'd be looking at um bringing something to um to this group um for commission to take a look at in their uh April meeting. and then from there, depending on uh how the discussion goes, get it turned around for council to review. So, we're still on track with what we had talked about back uh uh last fall. So, one of the things that we did uh really to kind of get us kicked off um some of you might recall that some work had happened in 2022 and then it kind of stalled out and hadn't gotten finished. So we are picking up that work, confirming some things from that, adding additional information, and then making sure that the recommendations are qualified for here and now and and are going to be a good uh footprint or a good guide moving forward. So, some of the information on the screen uh were some uh some data points that that 2022 plan looked at. you know, really looking at growth of the community, looking at some different um uh composition of the community and demographics. Um looking at existing facilities both in terms of trails um uh city park and open space, but also um like wildlife management areas or space like or regional trail that um are within the the city boundaries but maybe aren't um directly um governed by the city. go and go to the next um walkshed analysis was one of those areas to get a feeling on where people are are living and uh if they have access basically within a 10-minute walk to their uh from their house to a park. So, you know, from this one, you can see that there's a lot of spots where, you know, it's missing currently. If we go to the next one, um it uh and I I thought there was another one in there, but but basically some of the areas that were dashed in that previous slide line up with comp plan, right? It's it's indicating that those areas where people are living or where there's development really trying to get access to parks in those spaces. So, um the one that uh so we do have a a public survey currently open. Uh we started that in mid January. We're looking at having it open through um through the end of day next Monday, the 23rd. So uh if people haven't seen that yet, I would encourage you to Kyle, I don't know, it's been out through some Facebook posts. Um where all has that been promoted? >> So the city city of force lake Facebook post. Um I know like the school district community had shared it, but then it's gone out in different type of newsletters. YMCA. Some of the schools have been willing to share it, some of them have not, but um yeah, kind of multiple different directions. Um and and yeah, just trying to get it spread out through where people are receiving newsletters and looking through some of the information. >> Yeah, I think we are as of yesterday morning, we're about 235 um respondies. Uh we will have the QR code and hopefully have a station set up at the open house next uh um next week so that we could get additional people if they if they want to do that and haven't yet so they can participate in that. Um a couple of slides that we plan on having the open house just provide an overview of responses to date. Uh what are people interested in? What are they looking for? Um who's been responding? uh where where have the participants um like what's the composition of where they live within the community? Uh for those who might remember the 2022 survey, this was a map that kind of came from that. So it was helping to understand some of the natural barriers, some of those harder barriers, whether it be 97 or it be uh Lake Street North. um you know, how are they uh just naturally navigating people to where what park they might go to versus crossing uh or lakes that might serve as a as a natural barrier. So getting a better understanding of what the the different means um are from that perspective. Uh if we go to the next um so we've started recommendations, they're in a draft format. They're still pretty high level. uh steering committee looked at things that are a little bit more granular this afternoon. Um we're going to ask the public to do the same thing. We're going to pull them back together so that we have an initiative which is kind of that desired outcome. We're going to have recommendations which is what are we what what action are we trying to you know basically achieve toward that desired outcome. And then we're going to have a rating or a range in terms of one to three years, four to seven, eight plus. Parks uh system plan is typically a 10-year plan similar to the comp plan. And then one of the recommendations within that is going to be like every two or three years just doing a check. Doesn't have to be redoing it, but are trends the same? Are the needs the same? Have things changed within the community? Do we need to make any tweaks? So uh some additional mapping and one of the pieces that we are looking at currently uh from this I would say park classification making sure things are aligned with national metrics in this case NRPA is national park and recreation association we're trying to align the classifications of parks and by that also like size of acres you know what typically happens in within those different parks how do you manage them differently than another park. Trying to get those things baked into the plan so the city staff have a little bit better direction, but then also this body um into the future has a better understanding of what are we looking for when you talk about a neighborhood park versus community. How does it relate to uh an opportunity that might come up through development or just managing the system? Um this kind of goes with the same thing. I would say look at this high level. Um, I know there's some some tweaks that still need to be happening in this, but but one of the things that we're going to be looking at with the plan is probably suggesting a few tweaks in classification, but making sure we also provide definitions for what those tweaks mean. So, that's kind of what these um are saying without getting into a ton of detail at this point. Um another board we're planning on having actually this one and the next three um they align with the different categories. There are five um basically over overarching categories for the recommendation parks as one. Um this map is looking where the parks are now. Um different classifications within that and then also some uh park search uh service areas. Those are the orange boxes. Um similar with trails. So from a trail search corridor standpoint, one thing we've heard from 2014, the the recent comp plan, um 2022 survey, the current survey is walkability, connections, you know, making sure that there are trails and connectivity. Um so that's it's looking at that from a mappic a mapping interface, but also from recommendations perspective. and then awareness, programming, natural resources, resiliency, operations and maintenance or operations and management are the the three that kind of round out that box. So, we're looking holistically at the entire system, but then also how it functions and how you manage it over time. Um, another piece the this body want us to to look at adding to uh and so that we are actively working on is a review of the park dedication uh fee structure. We are in the midst of doing that. Um basically um you know that that came through in the in the the recent discussion that was on the on the table. Um you know what how does that function? How is that a tool to help grow or improve uh community's uh park system? And then kind of what the the fees can or can't be used for and if the current structure is meeting the needs and appropriate with kind of state statute, city code and court rulings. Um, so currently I would say the Forest Lake as a as a population size is kind of between or on the edge. So they're not necessarily in that, you know, zero to 20,000 uh size community. They're also not necessarily to that 50,000. They're they're right in between both. So, um, with up to 20,000, it's typically at 10.9 acres of parkland per 10,000 population. So, you take the overall parkland um that is available within the city, you know, currently as it's on the books, divide that by the population, you get a you get a number. Um, that's basically your ratio. Um, and what what that ratio is, it's from NRPA. It's an average or it's a mean number based on all of the the cities that are within that within that uh population range across the country that have reported data. That's that number 10.9. So some might be lower, some might be higher. The average is about 10.9. When you get higher than 20,000, it actually jumps to 12.9, but that range is from 20,000 to basically 50,000. So it's it's quite a quite a gap right currently Forest Lake is at 8.13. So it would be at a deficit based on its current population trending you know growth going up. Um so we're looking at that as part of that uh the park system plan also part of the uh dedication fee study and we will we will have a proposal uh we in a draft format I I will share that we are looking at keeping it the same as it is one thing that uh because it's it it aligns with statute aligns with with court ruling um park dedication is one vehicle that helps to grow parkland and make improvements is not the only vehicle. It's probably the easiest vehicle. Um but um what we haven't done yet and what I want to do uh before it comes back to you is get an understanding of of the developable residential land or commercial industrial that would would flow into park dedication and the areas where we want to look at parks. How will that affect the number? So, I want to do some future projections to to help people understand what that means a little bit better in terms of where you're at, you know, in the future relative to that 10.9 or or whatever whatever ratio the city determines to be kind of that sweet spot. So, we haven't done that yet. Uh that's what I want to do and also have some other examples for uh for city staff to understand steering committee to be able to review and to provide better clarity for the commission as you're reviewing that and then using it uh moving forward. >> So >> Josh I sorry question Josh I I assume that bodies of water aren't included in that acreage like we got a beach and people use the water >> typically you're not included in that acreage. Yeah. So it'd be very similar to the um the discussion you just looked at with with that park in terms of wetlands or storm water ponds. Now the the interesting thing is if you have like nature preserves or nature park spaces and you're using them for like passive and have trails or boardwalks around or educational purposes. depending on the the type of park you have, you may be able to include some of those because they are providing access to natural resources and you know social mental health um outdoors recreation. So there's some different things that we'll we'll iron out as part of that. Um the other thing that I will say on this slide is at the very bottom right. One of the things we're trying to we want to try to bake in is a little bit better understanding of how to how do you as a commission use park dedication, right? And that is reviewing park need park search coord areas. So things from the long range of the system plan. Um same thing for trails and that kind of helps determine if you might be looking at land through dedication or cash and love. basically the same conversation you just had with that with that opportunity in the southwest part of the community. >> Can I ask a quick question, Josh, just because I don't know this question. So, when we're going through and planning these, are the developments that are in the works and being talked about included in the plans that you're doing currently? >> We are trying to include that information to the point that we can. Um there are some and I'm not I'm not going to get this right planned unit development I think u puds >> um that depending on where they were at in terms of discussions with the city uh or with council u some of them you know were back in like 2014 2015 those already set the course to some degree on expectations so some of those decisions that have been made in the past developer and city you know probably are going to talk about those things, but to to what degree you would be able to manipulate or or massage those is is just going to be an agreeable conversation relative to those plans. But but otherwise, yes. >> Thank you. >> Could I have a question? Josh, you had a slide. I don't know where you find it, but it was the one with the back in the 2023 I 2013 14 showed the spots that were identified at that time. Um >> my question is going to be at because I know Bolton Mink did that as well. >> Yeah. >> And there was a planned park area by Schillings and it had when you mentioned the nature that whole thing was nature and the dog park that fell apart. So is any of that I was wondering if that circle on that slide was over in that area where there doesn't seem to be anything over in that area. >> So we one of the recommendations um there is a slide in here. It's not as clear as that one probably, but um it does tend to align with the the comp plan image you had in that previous, you know, the previous topic, but one of the recommendation is looking at evaluation of some of those areas that are really natural spaces that aren't really programmed and looking at what those can be to better serve the needs of the community moving forward. Yeah, that was a very open have kids from the school go out people could go out a walking trail and learn about nature and birds and all that. >> So I didn't I don't know what ever happened to that. >> Bixby Bixby was one. There's um there were also some others like South View which tends to be you know currently is more of a natural space kind of between some developments and it's really looking at what's on the books and seeing what makes the most sense to u provide the positive direction for the for the park system but also meet the needs of the community. >> Good. >> Go next. Uh so some upcoming activity obviously we're at the park and and recreation commission. Um so um the open house I've already mentioned next Monday it's before the council meeting so from 4 to 6 we'll be there. Uh we'll probably have some uh refreshments. We'll have some different boards some activity. So it's not just going to be looking at things and and providing a comment card although people can do that if they want to. Um then we will uh the survey is is currently set to to wrap up um basically I think through through that day. So basically all all day on Monday you can still take it and participate in that. Uh we'll be looking at uh our fourth uh steering committee meeting in uh mid-Marchch that's going to be reviewing the a full draft of the plan, identifying any final tweaks, any adjustments we want to make. U seeing if we can get any uh hopefully a little bit nicer weather, get some a few more nice photos of some of the parks in the community. um and then look at taking it to a commission in April and then council, you know, depending on commission, it might be early May, but but that time frame that that we had talked about, we're we're on track to hit that. >> Thanks. Questions? Any of the members have Josh? >> And anything I missed for for those of you on the commission who are on the steering committee, feel free to Josh, is there a u anywhere in the plan? Do you do any high level cost estimates >> of what it would take to develop? Because it's easy to say we want this, but >> everything comes with a price tag. >> Yeah, we will have um estimates of costs for the the more granular information. Uh we'll also have um similar to what we did in the 22 plan, we'll have uh general costs for for typical things like benches might be this for cost or um mile a trail or or like per foot of trail. We'll have some different different related items to help the city develop budgets for things. But then where we can we'll also have a planning level cost to help gauge what are we looking at for that 1 to three commitment four to seven eight plus along with some uh funding sources. >> One final question I have is I know NRPA does have standards for how much how many staff a city should have based on park size. Are we going to address that at all? Because >> we we do have >> takes people to get these things done. We do have information on that and that is one of the pieces that we will want to uh confirm and review as we're wrapping some things up for a full draft. Okay. >> We had done an initial take of that at 2022. I know we were deficient in that area and want to see um how that currently sits relative to existing conditions, but also moving forward with other recommendations the plan has. I just think we're very fortunate to have Bolton Mink still working on that because they have shown many times how much they care about the city and have worked well with the city and they're going to jump in the lake for the city. So, >> some of us will I don't know if I I'll be there. I don't know if I'm going to jump in. >> But seriously, I Bolton Mink has gone overboard with a city engineer has to has to do and a great company. So, I'm glad you're combining the old work that was done to not leaving that just fall off the deal. So, thank you. >> I'm grateful for the opportunity to to pull this together and and uh to at least present this progress update to you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> And certainly we encourage people watching to to take the survey and come to the open house. Um >> absolutely. >> The commission does listen to comments. The recent survey on Bay View Park is an example of that. I think we were all on the fence whether we put the basketball courts back in and the residents said do it and >> so >> now's a time to have your voice be heard on the parks. >> Melissa, I'm sorry. >> Yeah. No, everybody here just needs to invite people to that uh meeting. I've been inviting everybody that I talked to that they need to come and and look and see what the plans are, what the ideas are, and give their questions. So, I encourage everybody to do that. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. safe drive home. Okay. All right. Next item 10, Kyle, outdoor athletic facility study. >> Yeah, just piggybacking off the master plan. Um, one thing the city gets, um, hit on quite a quite a bit is, uh, the athletic complexes, um, whether it's fields, rinks, uh, so on so forth. And certainly as this commission most of this commission knows early on conversations with the district and maybe some change over of the Fenway fields we're very invested and interested in not doing too much duplication and you know with this master plan we really want to have a good idea of what we're at for spaces where the city has its spaces but so does the school district and um the school district and and city staff myself and Dave have been uh meeting monthly, having good conversations about what's their plan, what are they looking at for their spaces. Certainly parks isn't all athletics. Um but it it definitely does get built in and the you know the school district's looking at maybe pulling back on some ball fields or looking at some green spaces. What what is it going to be their maintenance plans of those? So together we're um working on one study or analysis of all of our spaces and um and trying to summarize that together versus the city just doing it and then the school district doing it in another year or two. So it's just going to kind of help each other out with this with this study. Um and and I think it's really focusing on um you know again just how many users do we have? a flaw is going to be heavily discussed with of how many fields are they wanting, are they needing, how many kids are programming. But I I believe it's been shared with this commission. The reality of, you know, some of these local athletic associations and organizations is about half of their population is made up of Forest Lake youth and the other half come from Scandia, Lino Lake. So while Forest Lake wants to support FLAW as much as we can in the youth sports, we can't just be the sole provider of all those facilities being that we have non-residents, you know, um and we have to consider that too. So um really I think just the district is very supportive. they're they're willing to put in some finances and really staff feels the breakdown is about 2/3 city um information and about a third the district and that's what they're willing to to pay for about a third of the study. So um seems like a pretty positive uh conversations and and will be valuable information for us with this master plan going on too. questions for Kyle. >> Kind of makes me nervous when I see they're not from Forest Lake because a lot of those kiddos live really close to Forest Lake and their parents and things come. So just a little thought went through my brain as we still have to work solid with FLA and bring in the number of students or kids that they do because we care about all the kids and I didn't want I just heard a little something about separating Forest Lake and Scandia and the other kids. Well, I think at the end of the day, you know, so we have like the baseball association, they like to call Forest Lake home and they want five, 10 more ball fields because they say they don't have enough. And then when we meet with the school district, they're saying they want to take away some ball fields out at some of these outer um schools because they don't get used. So, I think it's kind of that question of do we want to spend dollars to build ball fields while other local entities are going to be taken away because they're not being used. I think that's the biggest concern there is to make sure we're not going to also say, well, we must need to add a bunch more fields while other entities are just shutting them down because they're not being used. So, it's just we have some facilities in place already. doesn't seem like the wisest when we have a lot of other park projects that people are asking for. >> Kyle, yeah, there's two proposals in the packet. Have you selected a consultant or are you looking for input on the proposals? >> Um, we we did so with the um we were given a recommended consultant to talk with and work with and being that the study of this nature, we wanted to reach out to a second one. Um those two are just put in there just to kind of for transparency. The um the attachment A Ballard King is the one that that um we've felt was the most appropriate uh being the information that they have provided and it seems like the experience that they've they've brought with other local uh Minnesota uh city studies that they really seem to be providing exactly what we're looking for. Um, you know, we we tried to keep we we try to research a little bit more local for consultants, but by Ballard King coming from out of state, but they serve a lot of other Minnesota communities, it kind of shows you that there's not a lot there's not a lot of just consultants sitting there for to provide this type of information. So, um, really the the recommendation is just, you know, the commission just recommending approval of the council to to, you know, fund that study for us to put forth towards the the master plan. >> I have a question for you, Kyle. So, here's um just kind of piggybacking off of Karen's and yours with the outer cities. Obviously with some of the rinks and such that we're using let's just say outside of forest like Lynwood Scandia stuff like that like I don't know how close all of our cities work but is that possible to maybe go to the locally neighboring cities and say here's kind of what our plan is here's what we're working on we know the number of students that come because ultimately I think the younger kids K through They divvy up the teams based on where people live. And so you're going to get people in Lynwood and that whole team's Lynwood, but they're coming down here to use our fields. Vice versa for football such like that. So is that an option to be able to take some of those teams or some of those areas and kind of venture out to those cities of where the folks are because again, it's going to save people an hour of drive time. I think I think this is what that hopefully this study is going to produce is you know they're going to do a full audit of all of our facilities the schools and the cities and hopefully what'll come up is yes there is a overgrown field in name your place here if that was upkept and some of the pressure that was on city fields was used you know that that's an option instead of hey city let's build another quad like Fenway, there's a bunch of other little fields around here that you could put a lot less money into to make it another practice field, another certain age group field. I think that's what this study is trying to do. It's trying to find all the fields that the city and the school have. Also, um, what am I looking for? uh tier them saying this is a this is a game field, this is a practice field, this is a a little kids kickball field and the study will say we have way too many x amount of fields but not enough this many fields. So when the school and the city get together and you know the the pressure is on we need more premier game fields. Well, let's spend the money in taking one of our subtier fields and just improving it versus taking additional parkland to make another premier field and vice versa. They might say, "We have way too many premier fields. Let's scale that back and let's let's, you know, improve some of these other ones." You know, it's basically finding all we have, the users we have now in projected users over the next 10 years to see if we have enough, if we have to plan to have more fields, if we have way too many that we should scale some back, if we have too many of one or the other, it's also going to dive in ice rinks too of do we need more ice rinks not only in the city, but could they be strategically placed in other in other areas. So that's why it benefits the school because they do serve that population of everybody around. We're focused really on the city and it ties in with our parks master plan. So when we have name your developer come up and say we want to build something, we may say we need another ball field down in this area and it it came out of this study and it came out of the master plan and it all it kind of ties together with with what we're trying to do. But at the same point, we don't want to build a field if the school district has a perfectly good field that could be used that just underutilizes. So it's that's why Kyle kind of brought up the parks master plan and this really ties into that for more athletic facilities where the parks master plan doesn't really dive as deep into into this. And then um and then kind of to piggy back with the city to city, I don't I don't know how standard it is for cities to work. Certainly with the district being so widespread, you know, you'd think that maybe there'd be some opportunity. Um I guess I haven't I I haven't done a ton of reach out to other cities, but you know, as far as it being standard, I don't know that it necessarily is, but we can certainly push that information out to say this is what we're doing right now. Um, >> we're the big city in the in the area, right? So, it's, you know, I I it's a this would be a heck of a proposal to a a Scandi or Lynwood to say, you know, how much do you want to spend on the study? I I think unfortunately or fortunately that the city and the school are the ones doing that heavy lift to to come up with the information. You know, long-term it may say we need something in this this general area. That might be when that pressure gets put on of, you know, hey, you got to help us out with name your facility or or help improving a certain city field or something like that. And >> I like that idea, too. I mean, just wait for the information to come over and then take and collaborate at that point. Once they give us more, then we can really see the whole picture and say, okay, maybe we can work with them to do such things. >> Correct. >> Thank you. >> And I agree. Just I'm happy it's going to be done. and I think it's a good thing to do. But it took us so long to understand that Fenway is not just one of the parks. Fenway was a created piece to bring in lots of new people and be a premier place. And I I don't want it just from my own personal I don't want it to ever be one of the parks. It's a special place. Lots of money went into it. A lot of time and effort went into creating something like that. So in this I hope that that just comes forward. And um and staff is looking for just that that motion to recommend council approval of the of the Ballard King study for that that amount. >> Make that motion. Karen. >> Sure. >> Karen's making that motion. Second. Anyone? >> I'll second. >> Aaron seconds. Any more discussion? >> Okay. All in favor? >> I opposed. >> All right. Thanks, Kyle. We'll keep uh >> this one's Dave's, I guess. Bay View Park Reconstruction Project. >> Yeah, thank you, Commissioner and Commissioners. Uh this is something we've been working on since October. Uh we kind of brought this up for this is the project for 2026. We spent a bunch of time on it. Uh had that um survey go out. Um have done a lot of cost estimating. We're kind of at that point now where we're looking for a recommendation to put this out on the street and and get some some bids for that playground. Um the final tallies on that first page, if you look with everything kind of broken down, um the initial budget was $450,000. We figure with estimates it'll be in that range of $378 to $428,000. Um that range is tip squarely on in the RFP. It's asking for um a range of equipment from 125,000 to 175,000 just to get and we'll ask they can submit up to two, you know, different different variations of a playground. So they may submit a low end or a highend and that's where that that different dollar amount comes in. Um, as far as timeline, uh, we would put this out, um, probably tomorrow or the day after and we'd be looking for them to submit, um, their their proposals by, I believe, April 1st. Uh, we would bring that to the commission meeting April, April 15 for them to do their presentations like kind of like with Manor Park. uh we're requesting story boards and if they don't want to show up in person to have those bigger those bigger views and then hopefully get um recommendation for which playground uh the commission selects to go to council award on the 20th. That said, then um that that winning um bidder would be able to start procuring the the equipment. It's usually 13 weeks for them to get a playground, the one that's selected to be built. In the meantime, that playground would be open and uh be basically shut down like Manor was around the end of July. And that's when public works would go in and get rid of the old equipment, demo out the playground, demo out the old basketball court, the parking lot, and public works would put it back together with a new container, new black top, new basketball court, and then ready for that installer to come in right after Labor Day to put that that new playground equipment in. with the end um final completion date around October 31st. It could be done way quicker than that if they came in right away in September. It could be done still middle of September. But really I I if you took a line uh time to look at that RFQ, that's basically what we're proposing to send out to about five or six vendors like we did last time and then just see what they they come up with and then value your input of when that time comes. So really any questions about Bay View, the RFQ itself, uh, anything you have for me, I'm willing to answer. >> I thank you for taking the time to get it all finished and looks like it's well on its way. Now, >> Dave, is the RFQ just for the playground equipment and everything else city staff does? >> Correct. the uh the the rubber mulch will be bought off a state contract. We can do that way cheaper than having the equipment manufacturer. We're going to just use a concrete contractor to do the ribbon instead of having that with the playground. We're going to sub out the the black top. We'll do all the removals, but then we'll have a contractor come and put it back in. So, we're trying to be as efficient and use public works as much as possible for most of us just to drive down that cost. I mean, if you contracted this all out, it would probably be close to $750,000. So, we're trying to eat eat that cost down to have a better playground and have a better park by drawing down those those costs. That would just be going to a consultant or, you know, that that overage with the contractor. Any questions otherwise or is a recommendation with a motion for us to make tonight? I can make the recommend the recommendation to city staff to solicit quotes for the Bay Bay View project reconstruction project. >> All right, Karen makes a motion to solicit go ahead and move ahead solicit quotes for the project. Do we have a second? >> I second that. Melissa seconds. Any more discussion? All in favor? >> I I opposed. >> All right. >> Farmers market. >> Back to Kyle. Farmers market update. Just to uh get ready to finalize this and and put it out. Um wanted to bring it forward to the commission first. looking to get this final out um before March if possible. If there's any recommended changes, they can certainly take those in. But it's, you know, there's nothing nothing crazy about this. It's pretty standard for purpose and regulations. You got to be pretty tidy on on an event like this. It will get checked out. So, that's going be the first thing they ask for to make sure you're within your own guidelines or policies. So, it's uh I did go work with some other markets. You know, White Bear Lake was a um you know, a really good partner in explaining the whole process and why they do what they do. So, that was super helpful. And a lot of this information comes from other markets around the area. So, it's you know um pretty pretty tight the way it is, but uh it just gives you a good look at what we're going to be putting out there. Um the market application is just to try to you know with the goal of not oversaturating the market having too many of of a certain certain vendor and then just kind of the the market permit that will get set out um once they're they're approved and at the market and that's something that is highly recommended to have just to make sure that the folks that are are there at your market are supposed to be there and everyone knows that um there is the map um that this was um shown to the commission I think back in October or whenever we had done the initial discussion. So just kind of reiterating that that's our area. We have the little spot dedicated for vendor parking in hopes that that's plenty of parking. Certainly the first year we'll find out how much traction we get in there and how many vendors we get in there and can kind of, you know, work on the fly a little bit. But we believe this should be pretty a pretty good solid plan for the first year. So >> I love it. Great job. >> Thanks. >> Yeah. Amazing. any >> are we still looking at Rotary Lions? Whoever wants to set up and help us with that. >> Yeah, I I definitely had had interest. The the Rotary seem to have interest, but just have not got a commitment. Um I'm working with the county and trying to get SNAP benefits and market bucks there where people can come use those um credits and then things like EBT uh but certainly having to have that um on-site in person. So, we I am kind of going to some alternative angles. I know the Rotary the biggest concern was the amount of time. I mean it's a 19week deal. >> Um but yeah, that just really hasn't hasn't gone anywhere. I haven't I haven't heard um had another conversation with the Rotary President and just haven't got a one way or the other. >> Yeah. Last I heard too that they were interested, but we'd have to get the commitment of the club to make sure we could fulfill it. >> Yep. >> But I think after the plunge they'll have a lot more time and we'll bring it up. Mo and I can both bring it up to get some commitment out of that. >> What is the commitment on the part of whomever you're working with? Like what is that commitment? >> So really really the goal is to have um somebody there to work that side of things with the market bucks, right? Staff would have it all set up, but it would just be the person there to actually do the exchange. There's a little card reader that they just plug a card in and then it gives them kicks out a a credit for what they can go shop around with at the market. That's really the goal of having somebody there. And then just certainly uh you know be that um entrance hello explain you know just any questions staff would provide the map of who's here and information but just to be that hub but then really to operate that market bucks and and benefits portion. Again it would be it's it's how the counties explain it. It's a very simple it's like a credit card reader and then it just tells you how much how many market bucks and it's handing that out. Okay, >> good. >> That's 8 to noon. But would you need to be there past that because I see they have till 1:30 to clear out their stuff? >> Yeah, it would be something where once once the market wraps up, it would just be to get to cones back to designated areas, but then there's no reason for to stay there. Um, it's going to be on the vendors to clean up and certainly we'll have a plan to make sure that's being done. >> 7:30 to 12:30. Yeah, >> there is one one thing we had talked about. We we kind of landed on some dates. I think it was like June 20th um to October 24th maybe. But I know when talking to some other markets, they did just suggest to say like the third Saturday or the last Saturday just for a con a consistent start yeartoear. Um so I don't know if that's something that this commission would like staff just to make that tweak. It's nothing's really super finalized, but certainly we've talked about that. Um, so I don't know if that's something that we'd, you know, we'd consider. I'll I'll just kind of double check to make sure we haven't put too many things out on those dates, but it just to consider that tweak is what was recommended. >> That's what you have highlighted in yellow, Kyle. >> Yep. Correct. >> Yeah. Seems to make sense instead of a date. >> And we can pick the third Saturday if we want, but it was just recommended to always pick that one. So if we do land on those dates and stick with them, it's just always that third Saturday. So >> I think it's great. >> Okay. Any other comments for Kyle? All right. >> As you heard already, great job. So thanks. >> Okay. Uh outdoor ice rink report. Kyle, >> we we talked about this this uh past fall as well as um the the ice rinks, the usage, looking at, you know, belts and tower um you know, with just the goal that um we we put some numbers to the participants and just kind of put those numbers out to the commission just to show the usage reports. Um just provided a simple uh year-to-year usage example. Um certainly there's things where this year I think we saw some more consistent uh cancellation days and certainly that affects participant numbers but really just to show kind of there's a big gap now where you get from the tower parks to um to to belts certainly there's the two ranks. One thing that um you know this year too is the hockey association did heavily use ice. Um and we do have someone here. I think that the president Chris and if you want to step up to podium you can just quickly introduce yourself. Um but it's just to kind of show you again the the number differences from the usage and that's something that staff feels is important because there's a lot of staff time. Public works spends a lot of time in caring for that ice. So just to, you know, make sure we're seeing those numbers is important year to year when we're talking rinks. But I know the hockey association used the rinks a lot down there and it seemed like they just had a message of appreciation for that. >> Yeah. So Chris Hill uh for uh vice president of business. So I deal I'm over over the scheduling side of it and so this year if you haven't seen obviously some of you guys are in hockey, right? But we are growing drastically. So a couple years ago we did junior rangers and right now if you look at Forest Lake Hawk Association over half the players in Forest Lake right now are eight and under. And so our numbers are through the roof. Um and so with that comes the wave of needing ice. Right. Exactly. Right. You need ice. And so this year uh in the previous year we kind of talked about like the rinks are there but they haven't been well organized. Well on our side we kind of like tell teams just go use them right. Go use them. you didn't see a lot of part participation right that so this year we said all right we worked with Kyle Matt Folson was kind of that lead and then it kind of took it over and part was all right let's kind of coordinate it with us we coordinated with Forest Lake we coordinated with Scandi as well too and we kind of tried to get okay how much ice could we get we got as much as we could and I'll say honestly we filled it obviously this year was a challenge because the temperatures were up and down right the ice was up and down but we definitely filled it every chance we could uh there was teams where they would love more ice right so I I've got four kids in hockey. I've got a ban them 12U. And they had a blast because a lot of them once you get to the upper levels, you don't really have a lot of time to do outdoor ice because you're going to do games. You're going to play tournaments, right? So just getting outside and doing the old school pond hockey is fun, right? And so um and they were kind of bummed. They're there was only with all the swimming teams we had, we have 37 teams this year, there wasn't enough ice to go around. So I would say on our perspective like we're interested in more ice, right? whatever that looks like, right? We're here to uh help support, right? So, this year we we even agreed to pay for the ice, right? To help that upkeep, help to def fray those costs for the city because we know that we're rough on it, right? We know we're rough on it. I mean, the MIT's maybe not, but when you get a BANM team out there, when you get a 12U team out there, um they really work the ice pretty well. So, and I know there are some things we've worked as a group to also help improve fix some of the problems. But for our perspective, we're really appreciative, right? It went really well in our perspective. We would all love to have more ice this year, right? But if you look at the weather, right? It's been raining and snowing. It's just been everywhere. So, so it's unfortunate got cut early this year, but there's definitely the need and we're continuing to grow and we're going to need more ice. So, anything that you guys can do to help us that we can do to help you to keep that partnership going, I think, is really appreciative on our side because we definitely need more ice. So, >> thank you. >> My kids loved it. >> Mine did, too. I'll second that. the kids were going up even on days that they didn't have their teams practicing. Um we had other teammates of theirs call and say, "Hey, we're going to run up to T tower. Do you want to come meet us?" >> Nice. >> And we would I mean quite a bit actually. So I think it was I was going to say thanks for doing that. Thanks for participating cuz I don't think >> hockey is a different beast. But if you have kids in it, they appreciate it too and all the time and ice that they can get. So, it's huge that we had this many that were able to get out there and use these parks this winter. >> Yeah. And I know Dave kind of had um a rough rough guess on ours. Did we ever figure that? I mean, we know >> Yeah. Right around a thousand hours so far into them. So, >> and it's and it's, you know, it's every day every morning public works staff seven days a week. You know, they're coming in on the weekends. It doesn't matter if they're holidays. They're they're coming in, they're zamboning, they're clearing, um they're they're taking care of that ice. And like I said, this is why we want to make sure we're, you know, pursuing as much use as possible because there's a lot of resources and caring going into those into those rinks. So, um yeah, it was all in all a pretty good year and I mean, great ice. Um you know, all considering too. So, >> a thousand hours is a lot of hours, but if they're getting used and it's worth those hours, right? The bad thing with bee, if we put a thousand hours in like we did previous years and you're not getting usage, then it's it's then it's wasted time. But if it's getting used, you're seeing these increased numbers, there's reservations, then you know, even my staff are more ambitious to get out there and make it look really good and have good ice because they know it's getting used. You if you're doing it just to do it, it's it's a lot different. >> Exactly. And just knowing too, like Chris brought up, I mean 50% of our association is eight you and under. I will tell you it's they're just going to get used more and more. Um, which is a beautiful blessing, too. So, >> we were throwing three or four teams on a rake at one time because there's just not enough, right? So, so that's where it's like we'll take as much as we can and we're here to look at, okay, what can we do as association? Well, to get more ice as well. >> Sounds like we might need to move Tower Park rebuild up. You're not interested in that, are you? >> The master plan, huh? >> That's why you're here, personal. >> I'll take that over the dog park first. >> Oh, boy. Personally, >> oh boy. >> We almost two dogs. >> We almost made it through the day. >> I have, you know, you had a comment in there that Belts Park, you know, a lot of people that are really unhappy with how do you get to it? >> Right. That's what I was going to ask. >> And I don't know what to do with Belts Park anymore because it's just so needy in so many places. and and that's one that we're going to have that rink there. I think it's just really hard to expect people to go and and skate on it. >> Yeah, I think I think one of the the biggest challenges that uh warming house attendance heard, you know, is just the parking. So, certainly that parking lot, you know, idea being in there is super helpful. Um we just can't we can't let people drive in there with that path now. I mean, that's just a it's a potential um waste of that path to get really beat up and unnecessarily. So it's one of those things where it's the off streetet parking and you know it's until until we do something about the parking lot that's what it's going to be. So certainly that was a complaint >> and that if we talk about parking that's still going to be a long way away from that rink. So I just like to think city trucks have been on that path and how many cars would actually go on that path if they use that for bundling up their kids and and taking off their skates. You think that would really ruin that that >> the the the path isn't meant for, you know, vehicle daily use. Certainly, there's vehicles going on it, but it's not >> traffic. >> Correct. It's it's just getting in there and getting out. Um the parking lot would be exactly where it was before. It's it's going to be built to kind of be built off that path, I believe, or around that path. >> Yeah. You you'd have been right right by the rink. >> So, you're you're you're not talking about the other corner. You're talking about a parking lot near the rink. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. Because how do explain the path? What did that path get redone to be? >> And part of the challenge is >> the path curb too. I mean >> the existing path right now is developed that that would be the center of the parking lot. >> So we we still designed and put the path in there. So if you envision that there's basically 25 ft on each side of that that path would be what how where that parking lot was going to be. Oh, that's good news. >> I mean, something change your mind at some point. It's the curb cut is designed for traffic. We designed the storm water feature for that for that parking lot. We did everything except rebuild the parking lot. So, if it ever comes back around that we want the parking lot in, we all we have to do is put the parking lot in. >> Okay. >> Not all we have to do, but all we have to do. So, I have a question and I might be just way uh looking way too far back and not tuned in, but the old hockey rink that's over by Forest View Elementary, that building that >> the kids used to play hockey in. >> Um, whatever happened to that? >> So, that's the the school district's building and grounds hub. So, that's where they keep all their plow trucks, their mowers. That's their shop that they work out of now. >> All right. Good try. >> Yeah. >> Good try. >> Yeah. Cuz any other com heard >> I was just going to say the one thing I've noticed about Belts Park driving by every day dropping the kids off at school is when we do get snow, you got a good foot and a half, two feet sometimes away from the curb. So you're actually parking in the street. So, if I want to get out with my kids, they've got to get out on the roadside because you can't get off on the, you know, the the park side because there's snowbank. So, I mean, if that's if we're going to keep that, I think that's something area that we need to focus on at least making sure that curb is cleared to the curb and not just I'm plowing the street and leave two feet off the edge or whatever. >> I didn't realize that, but point Okay, I think staff have that comment. All right. Anything else on this topic? There's no action needed. So, all right. Other than that, we'll move on to uh spring fling. Just cuz Commissioner Lmark glares at us every time it's not on there, we we've got it on that agenda. We've heard we've heard the you we've heard that a couple times now. um you know staff you know the there you know with turnover and and things happening you know there's kind of the impression that the the um chamber running the Easter egg kind of took that on and took that over. So just kind of wanted to open up discussion on maybe just some spring fling items. What does that look like? What you know what what does this commission I mean think of is it something we want to pursue to bring back? because it's something to to you know obviously wouldn't be for this year it would be for 27. Um but just kind of you know I I I mean we have maybe some ideas of what it used to be but if there's any suggestions or thoughts or you know would you like to see some proposals brought back or you know what what what's the general consensus of this commission on that event? >> Um well I participated and volunteered at it a few times here and it was you know um in the fire station where they had that. But I like to do it I would love to do it in conjunction with the chamber down in the park. I think it'd be really nice to see it down there. And um I would love to have the chance if this is something we're thinking about to maybe talk to some folks from the chamber, maybe get with the folks that did the planning, Karen, your neighbor, and talk about some some ideas and some things and kind of come up with a plan and maybe bring it back to you. Is that >> Yeah. The tricky thing about the spring fling or doing it with the Easter egg Ion is sometimes Easter's in the middle of March and sometimes it's in the beginning of April and roll the dice on weather. So, it's it's it's a it's a tough thing. I know I'm assuming that's probably why they had it here is because it was indoors, you knew that that whether it was 5 degrees out or >> you know 50 at least that event was going to go. >> That's just my comment on that. >> Right. And the other was flexible of whether it was here or there maybe. >> Yep. And I think the other the other comment would be is does the city want to have another event? I mean, we've kind of worked even like the farmers market that we're trying to get into the business of developing an event and then hopefully handing it off to somebody else to to run the event and let let it be an event for the Rotary or the Lions or the Chamber. So, I just either caution or just want to know, do we want to kind of get back in that business? I mean, we have arts in the park. Do we want cityrun events or do we want to partner with somebody with a spring flame, come with ideas, and then try to find a find a person that would want to latch on to it and have that type of an event? >> You're absolutely correct. We city used to have a big thing outside and the weather was always a problem >> and it went inside. It was a small thing and all of a sudden the city expanded and it was quite a lovely event. You're probably talking about the one that was expanded and were a lot of opportunities for kids and families to come at that particular time. Easter does move around this year. It's April 5th, so it's it's hard to say, but that's when Chelsea took it over then with her real estate and they did a smaller Easter egg hunt. I mean, it's not really small. have lots of eggs. But so if you're thinking partnering with someone like her cuz she she's the one that really puts on that event now and the chamber helps a little bit but >> and I don't think we need to take on a huge piece of it. I just think partnering together. I think partnering with the things that are like there was at one point there was winter fest a couple times and that kind of centered around when the Rotaries um plunge happens and so then there was that hollow blue all around the town and really you know working with the chamber to have you know the businesses do special things and I'm thinking the spring fling is kind of the same thing if Chelsea's kind of running it and she loves doing it up being a bunny more than I would like to But um but then partnering with the city to to do a little bit of something to to like lay a little bit of claim on it to you know promote it as a Forest Lake City event. I don't doesn't have to be ran by us but partnering with that but still give us that like these are all the things that we're doing for the city. So >> yeah, I I mean I thought it brought a lot of happy faces into the city center that wouldn't know anything about it otherwise and the kids with the trucks and everything. It just brought an awareness of what the city does have here. >> Um but I don't know what the expense was to having it. I mean I don't think there was a lot of expense to it. It was just more time. Is what you A lot of the time it's not the expense, it's the time, you know. >> So that's, you know, we got a bunch of other stuff we're doing and that's and that's fine, too. It's just we've kind of had that direction or that direction of really not wanting to take on events to to to try be more than willing just like Kyle's doing with the farmers market, doing all the back work, getting it set up to be a a very good event, and then hopefully handing it off to somebody else that can take that. So, it's I don't I'm not standing here sitting here arguing against absolutely not. We shouldn't be a part of this event. I just want to caution you of how if we take on an event, then it's our event, right? And then it's our event just like Arts in the Park is our event and it gets bigger and bigger and it's still our event and you know, it's just more time and more energy that goes into it. So, especially if you're envisioning a event that's going to get bigger and bigger and multiply and be this this thing, you know, Kyle and I are only two people. Plus, our maintenance staff are a lot but also have other things to do, too. So it's it's just knowing if that's a dedication that we want to do some something or it's more to your point where a different group wants to coordinate with us and we can provide the space and the the help but really not saying we don't want to touch it but you know we'll help you get off the ground and help do the coordination and the planning and to get you off the ground but then you know it's it's yours going forward. Well, I would concede that we wouldn't have to have that as an event, but maybe Mo and I could even work with a couple of the other people that are doing it because I know we've got you busy on other things and I don't want those other things to be dropped >> like a dog perk. >> Maybe >> hypothetically. >> Hypothetically. So, we we've added that to your table. So, maybe and especially Easter's going to be very early this year. >> Um I don't know. >> That's always something to think about whenever it comes to the spring fling. just something that um I I like the idea of partnering. You've already got somebody who's kind of doing it. just having it even just promoted as like a not a city sponsored but a city recognized event and you know >> you recognize that we may need additional cleanup after that that and that would be maybe the city's part or how they you know what I'm saying there's >> or even opportunity there >> or even I mean just providing the the fireh hall cleaned out fireh hall for an inboard I mean that's a a very big cost particip icipation that the city is providing a place for this event. So >> yeah, I think that's a good idea. I mean honestly just thinking about weatherwise, timing wise, all the things if we could park and you know partner with obviously the city and Chelsea and the chamber and all the things and just kind of doing it as a joint venture >> in the fire hall I think is beautiful. I mean, I just go and I think about even the safety camps and all the things. We can hold quite a few kids in there with different stations that they already do and then we don't have to worry about the weather outside knowing that it's already going to be inside. >> You know, if we want to do some things out, throw eggs out, whatever. Fine. They could do that as they come in. But then just have it dedicated. We're here at the city. This is our contribution. And then bring in the rest of the folks to partner with us. >> I think that's a So, let us do some talking. So, thank you for having me on the agenda. >> Yep. So, you guys would you would like to do some talking and then come. >> You're actually doing this the opposite way. You're going to This is fantastic. >> We're going to get something done now. >> D's like, "Wow, we're going to be able to be really good at a few things instead of spread out and mediocre and a bunch on top of things." And >> that reversed on you quick. >> Great addition to this commission. couple of thoughts. Go ahead, Dave. >> No, go ahead. >> Um, it seems like every meeting there's a new idea or a new proposal whether you know we talked drones or participation in the boat races and stuff. I'm wondering if sometime during next this year we could have a discussion what's the really the mission of the city and parks and wreck so we have something to measure against one idea because all these ideas are good ideas, right? Uh but at some point, how does this really fit what we're supposed to be doing here as a parks department? The other thing I think would be helpful, at least for me, is uh seems like we have a lot of things going on, but a calendar or a list of just all these events we're putting on, even maybe a high level of just how much effort it takes to pull these off. So, I think we're all cognizant of the effort it takes. Nothing happens on its own, right? no matter if you're partner or fun, but but just I don't know how we're going to get our hands around all these good ideas that keep coming if every one we just kind of either kick the can or go, well, let's talk about it more. No, does it fit what we're trying to do here or not and then move on. Like we moved on pretty quick from that boat race. We're not going to sponsor a private outfit, right? So, just an idea if it's worth a discussion at some point with with the full commission now that we actually have seven members. >> So, that's a great idea. >> Okay. All right. >> All right. Moving on from the fling uh staff updates. So, um you know, one of the one of the things we've talked about is the the dog park, right? And I think January the whole idea was for staff to start gathering input and information and kind of bring back a report to the commission of making sure we're checking boxes of what what we want. Um, you know, it's it's obviously without having a park narrowed down, um, you know, acreage options is kind of up in the air, but staff has kind of heard loud and clear that the 3 acres isn't a minimum requirement even, but we're kind of floating, you know, um, with maybe just those averages, I think, which is, you know, like I said, two to two to three acres seems pretty pretty average for a a city park. Um, you know, one thing that it's important that I'm reading a lot that the there's there's a few things that the dog parks really really want um to see with their space, and that's um shade, trails, open space, access to water, and then separated areas, small dog, large dog. Um there's even a lot of parks that go as far as having if they do have three acres or even if it's you know.7 acres and three chunks they have a fencing area for large fencing area for small dogs and then a fence and rest area where the ground just gets beat up and you kind of just rotate that. So, I just wanted to talk, you know, cuz I think the March will have a more formal report, but staff again is reading, you know, um important with shade trees again, access to water, trails, open space, and then the fencing area. Um is anything else that you want staff to really consider now? We'll maybe start looking into the parks we have just again, we have some open area parks, but they don't have shade, so we're just going to kind of X those off. Is the commission in support of that and feels like that's a good base to work off of >> lockability to it? >> Access >> access to it. >> And you have >> is there I know you >> Yeah. that citizens have been to many parks. I think that'd be a real real good addition for our investigation of what? >> She seems like >> Yeah. Is there anything that you would like to share about other dog parks? Karen? >> Yeah. Um if >> you do you mind just coming back up to the mic? Just Yep. Thanks. >> Um I think we had this conversation before, Kyle, about um you know, just having the open area for like wooded area. Um and I'm just trying to think, you know, the the ones that are really topnotch have a bathroom, you know, um they have a faucet that uh you can fill up water bottles. you know, folks will just bring their jugs and fill them up there. But then there's um dog bowls, you know, water bowls all over the all at many different places throughout the parks. Um so plumbing, I guess, is the thing. Um parking of course you guys have hit that. Um, and you know, I mean, I think about you're talking about your the the folks that it takes to run something like that, and that's always the question, but you know, that would be I the one at White Bear Lake that I go to, it seems like it's volunteers and probably people like me who's retired and have nothing to do but sit at a Forest Lake meeting. Um, so you know there's a and it it's it seems like a pretty organized and I'm not sure if that's how they do it but you know I talked to a few of them but that's a way to and and um you know people like you know retirees have time and they like to be involved. So that's one way of just making sure that um you know that the that it's run not running but that there's you know because as far as like uh there are times when there are problems in the dog park you know I mean I've talked to people that have said oh there was a fight they had to call in um you know somebody to take care of it but just to be an overseer or somebody there that can answer questions and help. I mean, I I don't think it's necessary, but like I said, that's just one thing that when you go there, it feels good to have somebody that's kind of in the know. Um, and that's an easy thing for volunteers to do. So, that's I can't really think of anything else off the top of my head, but >> appreciate it. Yeah. >> Yeah, I like that. And I think our commissioner Tim Gary did go across and look at the one in Florida and what they offered. And you know, we could a dog park. You could go top notchotch. You can have play equipment for the dogs and or you could just have a dog park. So when I hear you say you wonder why we never had a dog park. >> I know. I >> We'll be satisfied with a a medium. >> Well, yeah. I'm sorry, but um so the one in Wyoming, have you Has anybody been to that one? >> No. It's uh it's just a like a football not the size of a football field. It's pretty small. Um but there's no shade. So it's it can't be really used in the summertime because it's so hot and it's you know and I do go there and there's just a you know so that one is only used for a short time when the ground is hard because it's also very muddy. So you know those are the things that you really have to you really have to think about because you want it to be used. Um and so you know that's just my two cents worth. >> Okay. >> Anything else, Kyle? >> Yep. And then um staff has uh worked with the the Washington County um for some community gardens. We we are going to make some improvements there. I wasn't able to get it just timing to get it on this agenda, but we did apply and and were awarded a $5,000. It's it's kind of like a grant, but it's a contract with the county um to do some addition in that community garden with maybe some hopes of um partnering with the master gardeners and then maybe potentially even um started some conversations with the school district, the egg teachers about maybe some um volunteer hours with the students that they do throughout the summer that could be done down there. Um, so right now we have 20 beds. We're going to, uh, public works is going to do another, uh, heavy lifting, um, on getting the everything installed, torn out, redone, and then add 20 beds. And again, um, public works will save a lot of money by by doing that. And that $5,000 will really go to the materials. And then, you know, maybe some more equipment down there and access for those that maybe don't want to rent a garden bed, but just become part of a more of a community garden where people can come and do some um of their own work and then maybe picking from the community garden versus just having to rent a bed. So, it's kind of ongoing on the programming side of things, but the county did get us that uh that contract. So, that's going to get kicked off to the council to sign and approve that we'll receive that $5,000 to start some upgrades to that that park, too. Are we talking about senior center? >> Yep. Correct. Yep. In the senior center even, they um I know um the coordinator there was pretty thankful. We dedicated a garden or two for her and they planted, brought some things in, made salsas and all that. So, it's kind of a a nice a nice feature to be right right out back there, too. So, >> um and then yeah, just kind of wanted to reiterate that uh the open house uh February 23rd. So, um 4 to 6 help spread the word is the biggest thing. We want people to show up too, right? make it make it worthwhile. But uh yeah, just a reminder on Monday if >> they come. >> Thanks, Kyle. Dave, >> no updates. >> Uh parks and rec commissioner updates. We just go down the row if maybe start Melissa. Anything about everything I'd like to talk about. Thanks. >> Tim's good. Sue's good. >> Nothing for me. >> Karen. >> Karen's good. And glad to have Nikki on board. >> We all are. Erin, I'm good. Nikki, >> I'm good, too. I'm really excited for what's to come. It's exciting. >> Like we told you in there's we have half hour long meetings. >> Yeah, you got me. >> Had a you had to suck her in somehow, right? >> What fun is that? >> Half hour per topic. >> All right, with that, uh, how would Nikki like to make a motion to adjurnn? Motion to adjurnn. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Second. Melissa, both ends of the table tonight. All right. All in favor? >> I. >> All right. Thanks, everyone.