[Music] I will call to order the Wednesday March 5th meeting of the Forest Lake Airport commission uh this is a special meeting I guess because the date is off by a month so that means the agenda cannot be adjusted is that that what I understand from a special meeting that is correct because we have to notice a special meeting with exactly what we'll be discussing so got it we've got this noticed as presented in the agenda okay uh We've called the meeting to order uh number two on the uh agenda is the swearing in of our new Commissioners down here we just in Joe one more time pronounce your last name for me GM GM okay so raise your hand me I Joe GM hi Joe GM do solemnly swear to support the Constitution of the United States do solemnly support the Constitution of the United States the Constitution of the state of Minnesota constitution of the state of Minnesota and to discharge Faithfully the duties and to discharge Faithfully the duties of commissioner of the Forest Lake Airport commission duties of the commissioner of the Forest Lake Airport commission the city of Forest Lake Minnesota city of Forest Lake Minnesota to the best of my ability and judgment to the best of my abilities and judgment so help me go so help me go congratulations thank you thank you for your service next on our swearing in is Mara Bane please raise your right hand I Mara ban I Mara Bane do solemnly swear to support the Constitution of the United States do solemnly swear to support the Constitution of the United States the Constitution of the state of Minnesota the constitution of the state of Minnesota and to discharge Faithfully the duties and discharge Faithfully the duties of commissioner of the Forest Lake Airport Commission of commissioner of the Forest Lake Airport commission for the city of Forest Lake Minnesota for the city of Forest Lake Minnesota to the best of my judgment and ability to the best of my judgment ability so help me go so help me God congratulations thank you thank you and last but not least konson please please raise your right hand I Curtis Monson I Curtis won do solemnly swear to support the Constitution of the United States do solemnly swear to support the Constitution of the United States the Constitution of the state of Minnesota the constitution of the state of Minnesota and to discharge fa the duties and to discharge Faithfully the duties of commissioner of the Forest Lake Airport Commission of commissioner of the Forest Lake Airport commission for the city of Forest Lake Minnesota for the city of Forest Lake Minnesota to the best of my judgment and ability to the best of my judgment and ability so help me God so help me God congratulations thank you for your contrib Serv thank you Jolene Jolene is right we take a minute and let each of the Commissioners at least the new Mara and Joe just tell a little bit about their background with airports absolutely we do have that on the agenda and and I'll go ahead and note the rle for the the meeting tonight so we don't need to do an official rule I'll just note that for the record okay well I don't want to jump past the open Forum Let's uh we'll do I didn't see that as number five on there the introduction of new uh Commissioners and the city administrators so we'll go to the open Forum uh if anyone out there would like to step to the microphone and just uh I imagine there's a pad and paper up there to sign their name at least usually there's a table on the side but it's in back okay anyone open mic night there we go good evening uh I don't know everybody here but I've met a few people chatted on the phone my name is Chris web with Northern Plains Aviation I'm the operating uh managing partner of the uh what his has been known as the hangar 97 Hangar which no longer exists hanger 97 doesn't currently operate at any capacity um two members on our board myself and uh another partner that would be uh Jason Peterson if you guys have met Jason but if you guys have any questions anybody want to want to chat about issues or concerns be happy to be on uh the same page as everybody just to uh play nice in the sandbox and have a good understanding welcome welcome to our airport yeah appreciate it thank you anyone else all right we will move on to the introduction of new Commissioners and the city administrator start with the city administrator Mark sure thank you Mr chair my name is Mark STS I'm the new city administrator I've been on the job now two and a half weeks I guess and everyone's been extremely welcoming I want to thank Jolene for all the support she's given me and um I tell you you've got an excellent city clerk here in my first two and a half week impression at least she's making a good first impression uh we'll see we'll give her another month or two maybe but um no it's been a it's been a really nice experience and um I'm just trying to absorb and that's what I'm doing here tonight is just trying to absorb everything that has to do with the city I'm learning you know uh what we all have as as our assets whether it's a golf course or a senior center or an airport so um my background is as a an engineer I'm a civil engineer University of Minnesota trained and um got my professional engineering license and um spent 20 years as a Consulting engineer working for um a consulting firm called bonro and then stantech was later bought out bonro and then in 2017 uh one of my clients was the city of Centerville and their position opened up as a city administrator and I ended up taking that job and um seven years later here we are so that's my kind of career path and background um I do have a small um you know experience level with airports very very minor stuff um I did a few projects out on the Maple Lake Airport um a similar you know sized airport to you guys and um but my my knowledge I will admit is very limited in the terms of the engineering and that's why we have our Consultants here tonight to talk through some of those things so I know enough just to be dangerous um as civil engineers City Engineers we end up knowing just a little tiny bit about a lot of stuff and that's kind of where I'm at with uh airport engineering um so I'll try to keep my nose out of the the nuts and bolts of the engineering as much as I can but um yeah here to you know just absorb again um our commiss commissions and committees learn about our assets and make sure that I fully understand what we're talking about each night at the city council meeting so thanks and and um again thanks for having me so thank you Mark and welcome and and since it's a small group tonight and everybody's kind of new and and Mark's new we'll just we'll start with Joe and and I'll even throw in my background a little bit and Kurt as well so Joe go ahead hi again my name is Joe GM um I guess a little bit about me lived in Forest Lake since 2008 now um education background I do have my bachelor's in aviation management it's been a little been out of the field for a little bit now but I guess it's started up at duth I work for the duth airport Authority um worked for duth international doing some operation stuff up there for a couple years and then um actually became the manager of Sky Harbor Airport up there for about three years um so it's another general aviation airport up there in C plane base so about the same size as Forest Lake with the runway and stuff you guys have a few more tenants here but um and then after that it came down here and I was actually the operations manager at uh ke Kier which is an FBO or used to be an FBO at the an NOA County Airport I think it's G through a couple fbos since then and it's now Atlantic or something like that so that's a little bit about my background thank you um my name's Don Steeler I degrees in economics and Engineering with the Masters in civil engineering uh focusing on structural that was my area I've been on planning Commissions in my previous city in North Oaks uh I've been on the airport commission here since around 2018 uh I'm A Private Pilot um got my pilot's license in 2018 uh fly a beachcraft b77 and I'm uh just about to complete a building an rv14a Kurt all right uh my name is Kurt mson I've been a resident of Forest Lake since 2014 um I have a degree in aviation management currently work as a pilot for Sun Country um I flew for masaba back in the late 90s endeav before Sun Country and I've run a small business in between so um been on the airport Commission Now for five years I think probably at least right around there yeah around that y thank SK Mara Mara Bane um my husband and I have lived in Forest Lake since uh just just um after two uh the year uh 2000 uh we raised our kids here um I served on the air um this Forest Lake City Council for two years was then mayor for six years um that term just ended here in January um as I was departing that term my commit to council and the city and to Mayor Roberts was to just help out in whichever way I can um during my time on the City airport has been a topic of conversation and a whole various various levels of capacity over the last eight years um I'm passionate about what's good for Forest Lake and I'm passionate about all making the things in Forest Lake better um we've got a lot of exciting things coming up here with the airport um and as part of kind of conversations with um mayor Roberts on how can I help out um this opportunity came up and I'm happy to serve I am the aviation like Beyond being a passenger on an airplane you don't want me near any technical conversation related to an airport but I'm very passionate about growth um and again what we have um kind of coming in front of us related to the airport and so happy to be here but I am going to I'm going to take all of your advice when it comes to anything technical I'm I'm here to be more of the resident um the voice of the resident and kind of voice of past Council great thank you Mar um that takes care number five next on the agenda is the election of airport commission officers and Jolene how do you want to do that Mr chair I was going to suggest that perhaps um just because we don't have a full commission this evening if the commission is open to it that perhaps we could um have a motion to postpone that election until our next meeting when we have a full commission um and that might be true for item number seven as well um approval of the minutes from October there are only two members here this evening who were at that meeting in October um to approve minutes you don't need I I think we can still approve minutes without I think unless I think generally the rule is that um if a if a sitting commissioner or member of a board was absent from a meeting they can certainly vote on them I don't know that it's entirely the same for members who were even sitting at that time okay but I'll leave that to the commission to decide I don't have a problem with pushing both those back to to next meeting if that's what you want to do that's it that I mean it makes sense anybody disagree with any of that no if we could just get a formal motion make a motion to recommend or to push items six and seven of the agenda back do I table them until next meeting or you can motion to postpone until to postpone until April meeting April meeting second and a second from Mara all in favor I I I any opposed no oppos no exstension so it passes so okay we'll move on to um number eight uh review Airfield lighting maintenance proposal and Mr chair I'll speak to this um Dave was not able to be with us tonight um he did um outline a memo for your consideration in the airport commission packet that starts on page seven um he's proposing that the the commission recommend approval of an agreement with um Neo El electrical Solutions Neo El electrical Solutions provides um various services that our public work staff while they're very capable and are doing a lot of great work out at the airport just aren't experts in um so they're look Dave is looking to have the commission recommend approval for this group to perform annual ground checks semi annual site visits various unscheduled maintenance and emergency services for the Forest Lake Airport related to the lighting um he's seeking to have this approved so that this group can make sure that things are operating properly as they should be because they're experts Dave and his staff are not um I would encourage you to review his his memo if you have any questions about the details but he's just looking for recommendation for this to move to city council for full approval I had read through it before and it looks good my question um and syas isn't here but I know his team is here um when we do uh have maintenance like lighting out there usually silus coordinates that I I think in the past and does that get typically funded by men. Aeronautics directly or is that come out of our budget and I know we try to budget that stuff we try to get dollars from m. Aeronautics because if you don't get them up up front you're not going to get it from them um so I I just don't want to recommend that we bring in a consultant if um you know if they're going to start billing us and we haven't accounted for the billing you know what I mean yeah I do and I guess I can't speak specifically to that um and I don't know if I so we've been without an airport manager and and so things have been a little in limbo so yeah yeah if I may there is dollar or are dollars available from mindat uh for to the city if you could do me a favor just state your name and with Bolton and mink and all nick greck uh aviation project manager with Bolton and mink nice to see you again or meet you um there is maintenance and operations dollars given to the airports each year I'm uncertain as to the amount um for Forest Lake um I would want to confirm that a preemptive agreement would fall under that maintenance and operation um so we can follow up with with silus on that um I'd want to confirm that as well would be our recommendation thank you I appreciate that um so would we um may just make a motion to approve this conditionally on on Bolton and mink I would someone want to make that motion I can make the motion um sorry Mr chair I I have one question I don't know if Jolene you can answer this or not but under the like unscheduled maintenance and Emergency Services there's a yearly total there is that their estimate of what like one call a year is going to be or or do we know where those numbers came from um on are you talking about on the chart that's that's on page n page n sorry so the unscheduled maintenance I mean he has it noted as zero quantity and as needed at $130 an hour so you know just anticipating that if a call were needed did it would be build at $130 an hour I I think they you know they can't really forecast the future they're just trying to be a little transparent to what they would bill for those Services okay I was just confused because it was under the yearly total Callum yeah you're right it is so I'll make a recommendation to uh City Council of uh Forest Lake to um approve the agreement with Neo El electrical Solutions uh conditional on uh Molton and minks um approval of their uh uh budget is there a second second all in favor or any uh discussion on the motion no all in favor I I I there's no oppos so it passes so yes that will move on and we'll be able to get them involved we've had multiple lighting issues out there over the years for those that don't know um the papy lighting the the light lighting that gives you your flight path coming in um for a pilot um when you're coming in you click your your push to talk your essentially your microphone button that talks out to the the other Pilots you click it five times and the lights come on and the those red and white you've seen them if you even if you're not a Private Pilot you've seen them and they come on and you get a pair of whites and a pair of Reds and you're on the right path and they have rarely worked since I've been here over the past eight years I mean on and off they work sometimes they go out you know they'll go dark on you you know right as you're coming in and so it's it's there's a lot of long stories behind it but it'll be good to have someone who's um has some expertise in that kind of lighting to take a look at those things so that's the short story on it yep um item number nine uh A3 and taxi line Bravo extension project and we Nick and Chris I'll invite you back to the microphone and this starts on page 11 of your packets yeah good evening everyone uh again Nick greck project manager with Bolton and mink I have with me Chris Gardner senior planner with boltman mink uh the 2024 taxiway A3 and taxi Lane Bravo extension project uh finished up in middle of September of this last fall um remaining is final landscaping and other punch list items including an infiltration Basin um located to the south of the taxi way con or taxi way connector um so those items uh we've been in contact with the contractor they're aware of them and they'll be addressed in the spring uh moving on to the the taxi Lane Bravo extension also in your packet is a layout a proposed layout of four hanger Lots along that extension uh what this proposed lot is showing is 4 60x60 hangers uh located each on their Lots shown by the dash line surrounding each building uh so what we'd be looking for here is a review uh of these locations and if the commission would like to approve this layout um a recommendation to council to do so can we change the lot numbers only because we already have along there hanger one two and three and unfortunately that one two and three go the wrong direction um but we would prefer that these be you know four five six seven in the same sequential order that they are now I yeah it doesn't matter in the same sequential order they are now yeah it' be just as confusing as everything else but um as long as they're different numbers so we don't have two hanger ones and two hanger twos yes um otherwise anybody have any questions or concerns regarding the the layout and that's the road behind what's the oh the sewer and Waters back there correct so the uh lines running horizontal were installed as part of the project all of the connections uh stubbing out from there for sanitarian water will be on uh the person constructing the hanger know you don't show the roadway considering cons continuing back across there or is it on a different page um no it's not shown on here this is just a lot layouts just a lot layout okay correct yes sir um and how how much space are there between hang uh hanger Lots or no the 60 by 60 so you're actually showing 60 by 60 building dimensions and probably how many feet to the lot line I believe it's a 10 foot setback on either side and is that set in stone because that has um this goes back in the history of the the airport but um most of the lot uh separations are 5 feet uh if you have a two-hour firewall um the original I think this goes back before my time the original concept was that it was supposed to be 20 feet between buildings but if you go out to the airport almost none of them are 20t apart and it was my understanding the basis of the history of that was due to fire rating and so that if you did a double two hour I think it was a two-hour firewall then you could go to 10 feet between buildings so a lot of the hangers out there now are built to within five feet of the of the setback so um I don't mind it being shown this way but I I think it should be designated somewhere that they can go that larger size um I I don't want you'd hate if someone wanted to go the extra 10 fet that you know they get told they can't um when they actually could so I just had that note I don't know if anybody else has any since you so I didn't have this question prior to walking in but since you're you mentioned that does this do these types of considerations also go in front of the Planning Commission or is it are we in the airport commission kind of defao acting as Planning Commission for those types of things on setback and you know it's that's a that's a good question I don't know that it's ever been brought before the um Planning Commission so much uh i' I'd have to look at our Alp and what it's if the Alp does it specifically say anything about space between hanger I know it's kind of been left out there silus has put in you know designated hangers and shows them out there and it's noted that that's just an approximation and nothing as specific but I don't know if it mentions anything specifically as to the minimum setback or no and that's that's specifically uh Chris Gardner senior planner Bol M uh that's specifically going to be related to any sort of local code so on the Airport layout plan that you're referencing that would just kind of show the allowable lot size and an example Building inside of that lot size but it's really dictated off of any local codes uh for what those separations uh relating to the fire walls and such Andor lot set setbacks are are required right I wouldn't think it needs to go to a Planning Commission level um um so I I as long as it's designated here as this in the same way that these are just general representations and and they're not fixed in there I'm okay with everything I I see here anybody else any any thoughts questions um yeah I don't have any other questions on that I would I would just be curious um so I'm assuming the requested action tonight is for a recommendation to approve to council so we are looking for Action this evening or a motion for an approval of this plan correct yep okay I would just be curious on other conversations at this body um just H have there been other questions or concerns and I guess I would just ask have does this plan kind of address those or um are there still some open questions that we might still hear um I just don't have that background so I would well I think and correct me if I'm wrong but this is just sort of a general designation I mean if someone if a commercial operation came in and they wanted two lots and put one huge hanger over two lots that's certainly feasible right this is just a a representation of the area and and one possibility right um I would in talking with syus earlier when he was running us through this I think that if you were to take two lots one large hanger it' be some sort of amendment to this plan so the intention is to designate these Lots um as far as you know five foot here and five foot uh there I think that's something that's um something we'd be able to do um but for one large hanger for multiple Lots uh the intention was for for four here and then I would recommend some sort of amendment or addendum okay so if we had a commercial to come out here and that we could easily do an amendment at a later time I hope see why not no other questions anything J you want to make the motion somebody I can I would move that we um approve the A3 taxine Bravo extension project as presented we have a motion second and a second any discussion on the motion all in favor say I I I right unanimous all right that moves forward all right moving on to the next item the 2025 Runway and parallel taxiway 300 foot extension um the airport received a uh design Grant from mot Aeronautics in 2025 uh this includes a 300 foot extension to uh the runway at the 31 end uh to provide a total runway length of 3,000 ft um the pavement uh drainage grading and lighting system all components of that design are currently underway uh the proposed schedule that we have is a city council bid authorization of final plans and specifications for May 12th uh planning on opening bids June 4th and then at the June 9th meeting city council uh approval and presentation for approval of the low bid uh from that project uh after the bids are opened uh at that point we will update the CIP construction cost and uh put in a request for State fiscal year 2026 estimated construction cost at this time is 1.4 million that is a 95% share with mot Aeronautics at $1,330 th000 and a local 5% share of $70,000 uh during construction the air the intention is for the airport to remain remain open with the 31 end the threshold of the 31 end being displaced shorter uh 600 ft to provide a temporary Runway uh with a length of 2100 ft to maintain operations while construction is underway uh keeping clear of all of the runway safety zones uh estimated construction schedule for that project would be uh September of 2025 uh with the goal of ending and being complete and operational in November of 2025 25 correct thought the I'm sorry I thought the construction was in 26 uh sorry so State fiscal year 26 begins July 1 oh of 25 of 25 it's sorry it's confusing um that's General summary on 2025 uh Runway and taxiway 300 foot extension any questions s on any components of the project I do have one back when I first started on the airport commission a good eight years ago whatever there was mind do had recommended they didn't tell us we had to but recommended additional Lighting on top of the the high power poles along Highway 61 or at least on one or two of them now if we're going to extend 300 feet this way I I certainly expect them to recommend it again um or mandate it and the concern of mandating is number one the cost of that lighting and then the number to the operational cost of that lighting um you know that's that's something the city needs to be aware of I don't want I don't want the city to be surprised with it I don't know if it means talking to mot and see if it's if it's still just going to be a recommendation then we don't necessarily have to do it um but if they're going to mandate suddenly mandate it in some way way then then it's a cost that uh we'd want to you know but when it comes to construction get included with the the cost of construction and and and to talk with mad I suppose about the ongoing maintenance and cost of operation too sure you said that was about eight years ago well yeah I want to say um when the runway first got paved it was a um I came in shortly after that and I remember it being a a discussion item at that time and we because it was only a recommendation and we just put it off so and we uh we did have those uh polls specifically identified on the Airport layout plan as well okay um as you know potential obstructions in there so I'm kind of familiar with the the polls and stuff from or the the lines from identifying them okay um and obviously I can't speak for mot but I would um I would strongly believe that if they did have a uh directive on hey we have we're going to require that these are marked of some sorts I think that they would actively participate in that Andor I would hope that they would actually cover the whole cost but I obviously can't speak for Minot on that um the other option is is too is um looking at burying the lines then for just a small stretch varrying the what burying the lines for a small stretch if if that's a possibility because then there isn't any ongoing maintenance with like maintaining the obstruction lighting or something like that burying the lines burying the power lines if they have power mean like dropping them lower uh they'll bury them in the ground oh burying them y now you're talking Millions I got to believe well we actually a very special containment under ground for that kind of thing and I obviously can't speak to this exact scenario here uh but in some other instances we have uh successfully buried some power lines uh can I can tell you from a personal example in Wasa at my home airport um we've actually just recently buried some power lines uh to develop a little a better Landing zone for the skydivers kind of in the field um and that was actually a pretty negligible cost I think it was maybe $5,000 to um bury a you know a few hundred foot run of power lines just to just to have a clear approach area you know it's interesting okay power lines buried spot back to power lines yeah y these are pretty high high powered lines but yeah okay well that's that's that that might be are these the power lines along 97 no these are the ones along 61 oh along 61 okay the big big ones there yeah yeah okay um anyway no other I don't have any other questions unless anybody else does y all right well with that I'll turn it over to Chris here for the uh clear Zone acquisition plan yep thanks guys uh once again Chris Gardner senior planner bolt and mink um so just to kind of run through uh the clear Zone acquisition plan here um so the clear zone is a trapezoidal shape uh off the end of each Runway um restricts land use uh which may be hazardous to Pilots so this is an area that is a a high occurrence area for some sort of an incident to happen at an Airfield um and if you actually look at the last page here uh the layout that Nick had um discussed that shows kind of the runway and taxi Way Extension you can actually see that blue trapezoidal shape off the end of each Runway so what mot's doing is they're kind of inventorying the clear zones across the state of Minnesota right now um and trying to verify that every airport has ownership or control of these trapezoidal areas off the end of each Runway um so what they're doing um is they're using this um in their scoring Matrix for any Grant requests uh for State Grant requests um so right now um as mot has it identified that the Forest Lake Airport either a does not have full ownership of the clear zones or B does not have a clear Zone acquisition plan on file any state Grant request um currently receives a 10-point deduction um for not having that stuff in place um once a clear Zone acquisition plan or full ownership is demonstrated to mindat at that point um then every project gets fivepoint um increase so it's actually a 15-point spread right now we're losing 10 points on any ask and with a clear Zone acquisition plan in place um it will be a positive five for every uh every request um 15 point spread on that one um so uh currently uh the airport does not own all of the land under the 31 clear Zone um with Fenway Avenue cutting through um and and so like we said uh by completing the clear Zone acquisition plan um this will give mindat the information to be able to provide an exemption um so what our clear Zone acis acquisition plan uh just specifically shows what is owned in fee what is controlled in easement and then the areas that might not be um so we actually just sent out uh the clear Zone acquisition plan um yesterday to mindat for review um and we're hoping that uh by getting the clear Zone acquisition plan completed before the April um State Grant requests um that will actually score higher and hopefully secure some more of the grants uh moving forward and Chris I don't want to interrupt but just to just so everybody's up to speed on this point system you're talking about when whenever we submit for those who don't know when we submit a project uh on our Capital Improvement plan to mot Aeronautics they received projects from 135 airports around the state and they grade them and there's a very specific grading process and certain if certain paperworks in place like you were saying they get certain number of points and then they they grade every project they take the budget the dollars they have and they start moving from the high grade down low until they run out of money in their budget and that's how they determine that your money your project gets funded and so it's absolutely critical that we get every possible point we can and and over the last years I know silent has been spending a lot of time uh you guys as well probably back in the office making sure we get all the points that we can get so that that's kind of why we're driving at this yep great recap thank you Don that's you you you really hit the nail on the head with that uh it's exactly correct um and with you guys being a state only airport you rely on the state for that major source of funding so anything we can do to kind of increase the scoring on that um and as to kind of you know Don's comment ments there um this is kind of a new initiative from mot it's just been the last few years that they've kind of become more transparent with their scoring and and showing this so it's kind of their initiative of being more transparent but it also allows us to be able to find those spots where we can kind of increase those points and and get us a better scoring outcome I just one yes one question um what does that take as I'm Al for doing that plan what does that take like obvious so work on your part what is like rough dollar amount and I guess my question is I is was that included in Airport Budget to get that work done or what is what are we looking at for cost to do that plan yep I believe uh I'd have to double check but I believe the this the clear Zone acquisition Plan cost on that one was $10,000 and specifically what we do with that is we kind of take uh all of the airport property um show go through kind of the uh ownership and in cumbrance reports for the property to kind of look and see hey where do we actually what property do we actually own in fee identify every parcel on there um and and where kind of where it came from because I know you see a big chunk of airport property um but it excuse me it it came from Individual Parcels you know so we have to kind of look at every every parcel identify the exact uh ownership um and then and then specifically kind of highlight the other areas so the Forest Lake Airport does have some easements and stuff around as well so then we have to kind of highlight all those easements um and then uh throw it all together for mindt also highlighting so we mentioned there's a couple a couple areas that are unknowned and we don't have easements specifically Road right of ways so then we kind of put a little document together for mindt um and we'd be happy to get you a copy of that as well at some point um we just sent it out yesterday and I believe uh Jolene might have a copy of that as well um I think we had copied you on there Jolene I think so yeah okay um so we uh essentially kind of lay all that out and propose to mindat uh and essentially say hey here's the areas that um we don't currently have control of for example I can give you like a right of way on a right of way um we know that there's been a road here it's it's uh that right of way is controlled either by you know the city or mind do or something like that we know that the city or mind do isn't going to allow you know the erection of a building in the right of way so that's adequate for mindat you know if we kind of spell that out and say hey we do have a 1.2 acre area that's right of way traversing oops excuse me I keep doing that traversing through that clear Zone um however um as it's controlled by mindt they're not going to allow somebody to build a grain leg or a structure or something in here so we feel that this is adequate control for the a airport in addition we kind of have to highlight all the easements and stuff as well make sure that mot actually has and Endor the airport actually has the authority to be able to go onto the property remove an obstruction or something like that if a tree grew up um and just they kind of want to make sure that the airport actually has control on this stuff and that it's adequate so it's just kind of highlighting specifically the easements rways the areas that the control isn't 100% in fee so and it's about $10,000 for to Bolton and Bank you do you do that work right correct correct perfect and that was under a Mot Grand as well so that was another 95% Excell so the cost of the city was 500 five $500 and and we get all that yeah so do you need some kind of approval for for from us on that or that's I would hope not for $500 I hope you get just for spend $5 that item was just for information just Just for information on that yep it it just went into mot yesterday so under way okay Commissioners I can forward you that information if you'd like to see what what they sent out you can for it yeah I don't yeah well some something to read at night yeah it's it's not too not not too terribly long so it's not okay if I could read it then you guys will make perfect sense of it y okay should we move on to the capital Improvement plan um yep and we actually have one other item on here airport minimum standards number four here that's that's number 13 on my oh okay I apologize that's after the capital Improvement plan perfect we we will uh run with capital Improvement plan then um so we just kind of have the draft CIP attached here and this is Page 15 of the Jolene you 15 of what I'm looking at on the PDF yes cor Mar marks ning said page 15 so it's a spreadsheet that that says uh uh fiscal year 6 27 28 29 correct yep okay um so just looking at the state fiscal year 2026 um we have the apron expansion design and construction for the 200x 80 apron expansion uh the runway 1331 300t extension construction as well as the taxiway a 300t extension construction kind of the projects that Nick just talked about here as well um so if we have any other this this is kind of preliminary right now if we have any other items that we might want to add in here um we can definitely get that added in um before the uh before the April um Grant stuff goes in um so these are being submitted as is these three and and the funding rate right now is 95% so again for those of you out there aren't familiar men. Aeronautics they can change the percentage that they fund our projects but right now and for the last few years it's been 95% so for instance $30,000 of City money would gets you $600,000 of Capital Improvements out at our airport now if if um mindat changed that down to just 80% that same $30,000 would only get $150,000 of Capital Improvements so just just so everybody understands the magnitude and the importance while we're getting 95% funding from mind out how critical it is to make the best of it while we can so I I think these are great um we've we've talked on and on about getting more of the um private hangers uh built I know on the south end South End of the run of the um Airfield if we go back there's where the hangers are now between the hangers and the Wetland area there's room and I know Sil has sketched out roughly 10 or 11 more hangers in there um and that of course requires infrastructure being put in some of which by the city and that means dollars um and those dollars we can put it on a um on on this Capital Improvement list it's much less likely to get scored high enough because it's not critical to the operation of the airport kind of thing yep as you go out from the runway yeah as you get further from the runway it's your score goes down but is it I don't know what kind of we would need to get that area prepared and ready for to lease out 9 10 11 more Lots whatever we have there because I know we've had a a waiting list for lots for private hangers for a long time and we've never even advertised it's just word of mouth has gotten out there and and our pre previous Airport Manager U or assistant city manager Dan UNAM kind of kept a spreadsheet of of folks and if word got out there I think I think you know you'd have 10 Lots least in you know a very short period of time but the question is what it what it cost to do that and you know is it worth putting on the list yeah I believe this is on if uh on you if you look at that same spreadsheet uh State fiscal year 2028 we have South taxi Lanes extension with sanitary and water M that's for a th000 ft of Taxi Lane by 25 that's estimated 850,000 looking at a local share estimated at 42525 I mean that I mean that's a great investment of $42,500 if we can the likelihood of it passing menot is probably slim and none getting through this fiscal year but if it doesn't hurt to put it up on on the line for fiscal year um 2026 I I think it's worth putting up there mindat is very happy with our airport for those who aren't familiar they came out a couple Winters ago and and walked around the airport um there they're really thrilled with the direction uh it has been going so um and I think you know we're close enough into the city that we're kind of that next ring of growing airports and so you never know what they might approve or you know get get a score higher on so I I would hate to get approved on all three and think gosh we should ask for more um so yes I I would I would ask also um just I I know the city has a capital Improvement plan and the projects are slotted in um so if there's room in the capital Improvement plan to move that up using airport funds I I'm all for it um that might be a limiter and I don't I just don't know off the top of my head where we are in staging of those projects on that Capital Improvement plan and if bumping up if there's room to do that or not but I think that's an answer that and and when when and let's say let's say mot comes back and say we move it up and mot comes back and approves all of them and now all of a sudden we need to come up with 100 27,000 of of City money and if if we can't you know we would just tell mot and say you know we just we can't afford to go through with this particular project so I I'd rather put it on there and and see if it sticks getting the grant offered does not uh lock you into anything right yep um and it uh it never hurts to ask you'll you'll miss every shot you don't take that's right that's right so I think it's worth putting on there for fiscal year 2026 as well and uh Mr Cher could I just ask a question yes um is it customary then to um for new Hangar owners to um recover some of those costs through like assessment type of uh um or or you know the sale or Le original not those costs there's infrastructure costs like water and sewer and and that kind of thing because that's required to go out there and those costs um I know I know I got hit with a like a $14,000 fee when I signed my lease yeah I guess that's what I was asking with yes would you recover those infrastructure costs from the new hanger owners the water sewer specifically I I don't you know like you're not going to recoup their design costs or yeah uh that kind of thing but yes water sewer for sure yeah water sewer in in the in the taxi lane or whatever you want to call it between the driveway between I don't know that that's I think that's part of what we'd be getting from men. Aeronautics and the city would would provide the taxi Lane um I mean remember they're building a building um like a I mean pay property taxes on that building so not unusual that the city would would put the road in for it just in new developments where we have a new house the developer pays for the road right the development pays for itself so you would see that typically that the city does not build a road with our own funds for in a Housing Development right the the builders each pay so I I Su to me I think the difference here is we've got mindat at the table and I think it's a question of staging um the approach of apply and see if we you know if we're successful that's served us well um on the bonding side and so it's you know as long as there's no harm in us not doing that project should we not be able to you know allocate and again we're only talking a couple of years timing difference I just don't know how tight we are on that Capital Improvement plan um for the airport but all for all for at least pursuing it if that's what's advice yep thanks and we have that noted to kind of bump that up as well okay do we need to make a motion to approve the capital with that amendment to approve that Capital Improvement plan or uh yeah I would recommend a a motion to approve the capital Improvement plan with the revision of moving up the South taxi Lanes extension also into 2026 okay I will make a motion to recommend to the city council to approve our Capital Improvement plan with the change of moving the South taxi Lane EXT mention um from 2028 up to the 2026 um portion to be included with that is there a second second Kurt Monson seconds any discussion on the motion all approve all in favor say I I I I that's unanimous so that is approved so minimum standards yes this is the Hot Topic all right um do so you guys are going to cover this I okay y I was just going to run through some stuff is that yeah that's fine that's fine we'll we'll um this is going to probably spur some discussion but yeah okay um so kind of what we have here um if we look on number four from the BMI memo um specifically airport minimum standards so update the existing airport guidelines uh with more comprehensive minimum standards for all parties operating at the airport um new standards would establish operational procedures for all existing and future aircraft owners and businesses operating at the airport um intent is to establish clear guidance for all parties involved um so the city uh so our proposal is to get a uh get a airport steering committee established um So based off this uh the people that we have identified are two City Council Members two airport commission members um the city administrator and the City attorney um so then if you take a look we do have our proposal here um for for the establishing the airport minimum standards um so if you look two more pages on just beyond the CIP here um you can see our proposal for um establishing the airport minimum standards um so this includes um six meetings um two City Council meetings and four airport steering committee meetings um and specifically um we do need to establish uh so we'd look for you guys to appoint two people from the airport commission to be on that steering committee um that's one thing that we would look from uh look for from the airport commission here this evening um as well as well as establishing a date for the kickoff um and specifically we would like to uh get a date set for the kickoff um if we look at the schedule that we have proposed in our um proposal here um we see that uh we anticipate having 60% draft minimum standards developed in June here um and then 90% draft minimum standards in September and then following up uh with finalizing the uh approved minimum standards in December here this year so just kind of to be able to uh push forward with the timelines of getting the minimum standards established um we would look to the commission to uh appoint uh two commission members as well as um looking for some dates that we can kind of um get kicking off uh for the minimum standards steering committee and and I appreciate you guys um enthusiasm on on pushing this forward and I think that's that's the key phrase here is pushing this forward um this this came as quite a surprise to the airport commission um typically if if someone was going to write new rules or recommend something for the airport it would come through the airport commission this did not come through the airport commission did it there's I mean $30,000 of taxpayer money was allocated by the mayor and not by the airport commission and I really um this is not a it's not an HOA out at the airport there's 31 individual lease contracts with very specific language there 10 10 Well mine's 10 pages there's different I don't know how many different leases there's at least three at least three different leases might be more um very specific language uh very specific rules in fact it designates how tall before I have I have to cut my grass at a certain height that's how specific some of the rules RS are in my lease agreement and there is this airport guidelines document um and if you've if you've read it if you haven't read it I encourage everyone to read it it's only about four pages uh when you read it you'll see that this document is never intended to be rules it's it's a it's a guidelines which is providing a sort of a broad direction of intent going forward with the airport you'll see words in there like goals and um just just it it's it's a planning document that a couple of folks put together well long long before I was ever here and to to steer the direction of the airport and now since then we've had an Alp and all that stuff but again it was airport guidelines sort of a broad direction of intent and now what's being proposed is creating a document of rules and regulations and restrictions and and conventions much like um what you would find in a Home Owners Association and I I can understand the wanting for that to be there but it violates the leases it violates if if you were to to do I I I your outlines got some some good stuff in it um but unfortunately if that was to if you were to go through with most anything that's in your outline and put it adopted into the ordinance it's going to violate 31 leases out there in multiple different areas number biggest of which it changes the entire intent of what the design guidelines were and I signed off on a set of design of those that four-page design so I I I'm really shocked that $330,000 of taxpayer money has been allocated to this when the the substantial legal liability for 31 leases um for violating 31 leases and yeah you get into the history this is not the first time the lease has been violated with these hanger owners Mark you weren't weren't here but this goes back to um when the airport was first paved and cost overruns or whatever and the uh City found it upon themselves to or was voted on it was before I was here however it happened Hangar owners were charged an additional fee uh per year which was not in the lease agreement nor an opportunity for the city to assess those fees now in the end we worked with the mayor and we got that fee eliminated part partially through and that doesn't forget the fact that they violated the lease in that way and and we all know we could we could go through arbitration and and recoup those dollars that we've paid but we also know we're smart enough to know that the cost of going through that process is probably five times what we would recoup so we move on we move forward but if you were to do this and actually adopt it into ordinance so it's in writing um now you've got a uh you've developed a pattern of the city has developed a pattern of violating the lease yes I'm uncomfortable with the assertion that the existence of the guidelines that we haven't even drafted is going to be at least violation I I I don't know if well no you're absolutely right because all I've SE all I've seen is is a very detailed outline that Jolene is I'm sure it's in here I don't know if you you saw it um I don't know if I've seen anything that's outside of the packet yeah it's in the pack well in the packet Airport's minimum standards development 1.3 section 1.3 um there are some things in here that uh and and again you're right until until it becomes a final I'm just talking I just see some of the guid the the bullet points and drafts it's no longer it's no longer a guideline it's no longer a broad direction of intent for the airport these are specific rules and regulations and um you it's a these are contracts you cannot unilaterally change a contract without written agreement from both parties and so that's why I'm bringing this up because this will become 31 individual legal battles but we also have so I look at this a little bit differently in that we also have individual homeowners in the city of forest lake and we also have these but they don't have contracts but correct and but I think that there is and the um I'm not an I'm not an aviation expert and I'm not an attorney um but our our City attorney has articulated and and and and did so somewhat in a joint Workshop that we had with Council to talk you know it's where kind of the concept of some of the challenges of not having the guidelines and some of the administrative challenges that have come up over the years and not having the guidelines and also some of the changing use we've got new businesses coming in people want to see what those guidelines are what what are the operating rules of the airport and so having kind of experienced the Gap and not having the guidelines there has been a very um um the City attorney articulates a very strong um kind of rationale on how these two things can coexist without creating this automatic conflict and again I'm not the then I I won't jump I won't Jump Ahead towards conflict either because I don't I just have seen the bullet points and and I've I was I listened to the January 27th city council meeting and I I heard some things there that would definitely cause conflict but I I'm going to let that go because this is just hypothetical and draft and we're going to work with the steering committee or whatever but I'm just saying I'm just and and in fact I had I had written up a motion because I wanted to make a motion for and I'm I'm going to go ahead since we're here I'm going to make a motion to recommend to the city council of Forest Lake that they that each council member reads the existing lease contracts and understands the potential liability to the city for unilaterally changing the terms but then you don't think the city council should read the Lisa well no I think they I I I think that's a fine that's a fine request um and also city council approves those leases so they should be reading those leases as they're approving them but also I I embedded in your question is this legal crossover that I I think is a good question but I also don't think that it's an automatic we shouldn't head down this path because I'm I'm just throwing it out there we're spending $330,000 and as I mentioned before $30,000 gets us $600,000 of capital Improvement project so when you're talking of uh bang for your buck in investment here Mr chair yes sir as a matter of order we have a motion on the table we should have a second before further discussion thank you I I realize that yeah I I'm not very good when it gets to the Robert I will read the motion again I make motion to recommend to the city council of Forest Lake that each city council member read the existing lease contracts and understand the potential liability to the city for unilaterally changing any of the terms is there a second can I friendly amend it ask ask for a friendly Amendment a friendly Amendment how would you like to amend it I don't think that that's a bad idea I would amend and ask that there's also a a discussion of with the city attorney on the last part requires some legal the last part requires some legal understanding and so I think I think to to read the question to read the contract sure that's a fair request and then also to enter into a conversation with the city attorney to understand what is the potential impact and risk okay um keep in mind before I accept that friendly Amendment understand in the summer meeting the City attorney when I mentioned that the guidelines document was just guidelines and not an enforcable document the City attorney argued that point and said no it's enforceable now she completely flipped that on January 27th in her meeting so not sure you're going to get the best advice there um but if if if you want to that and that's why I say understand the potential liability that's why it's in there as understand so whether they consult with the City attorney these are those are elected officials I don't want them to be able to say if the city gets hit with $15 million worth of suits from 31 Hangar owners I don't want the city I don't want the city council say well I City attorney told me it was okay you know I I they just absolutely this is such a big issue Mr chair just a point of order here we we have a motion on the table we have a second well a friendly amendment to it before we have further discussion we we need to take action on the motion um so is the friendly amendment has that been accepted uh no I think it's covered in it's covered in here so the original motion that's on the table has there been a second to the original motion that's on the table is there a second if not then the more you can read it there basically just asking city council to read the lease agreement yeah I'll second we have a second thank you discussion on the so I'm going I'm going to vote no on I'm going to vote no and I'm going to give context as to why um I don't think it's a I don't think it's unfair request to ask city council to read the leases they're approving the leases they should be reading the leases I'm going to vote no because I think it starts this conversation off on the wrong foot of challenging the basis of can these two things coex and I'm going to go into this with a Eyes Wide Open approach of I believe these things need to coexist I think there are other airports where this does coexist um and so for that reason I I think it starts this conversation on the wrong foot and I'm just going to vote for that understood understood any other discussion on the motion we have a a motion in a second all in favor I I three and any opposed opposed one opposed motion passes do you want this do you want my copy of it so you have it Jolene for that would be great you can I'll give it to you after meting thank you okay I I hated to interrupt you on all that but I I I thought there was some formality stuff that needed to be be covered and I wanted to get that um while it was fresh on my on my mind and just for a little clarification add-on so that's kind of the purpose of the steering committee too is this is just kind of a a draft you know Baseline bullet points here with that we can massage this as appropriately with the steering committee so I just wanted to add that extra clarification there I as with u commissioner Bane I'm I'm willing to to approach it with an open mind I didn't mean to be confrontational but I think it's uh yeah anyway so any you needed two volunteers yep just to just to as this is something that the city does want to push forward with we do uh are looking for two people to be uh nominated from the airport commission um and also looking for a date uh or some dates that would kind of work to start looking for a kickoff meeting time to get scheduled can can I give one more point of context on this um you you mentioned concern over $30,000 of taxpayer dollars are being spent on this study or spent on putting together the guidelines um so in my chair as mayor and in my time in certainly the last couple of years of witness ing the level of Staff time that was taken up by not having these guidelines and the amount of attorney time of not having the guidelines and not having clear enforceability and clear rules and all of those things on why the guidelines exist yes we are taking a period of time $30,000 is a lot of money but there was also a time when our interim City administrator was was estimating she was spending up to 25% of her time on Airport related items and so and na again trying to navigate the conflict and navigate the the mckiness and unclearness of not having the guidelines so not having them also has a cost um and so that's you know part of the reason why we why we ended up here so um I just wanted to point that out um I'm I'm willing to be on the the committee I don't know if if others um if someone wants to do it be nominated or I um so I would as being the new person on the Block I would actually prefer to defer to somebody else on the committee who is interested in this topic and passionate on this topic I'm here to support that they exist the actual rules themselves I think is best by those who are uh best developed by those that are current users best who are airport experts who understand what other you know what other airports what are successful guidelines in other airports that's not an area of my expertise I'm happy to attend those meetings and kind of be the fly on the wall to understand context but I would defer to some of the expertise on this commission I I will raise my hand and and take one of those spots if if that's okay with the two of you guys and and do one of you two want to take the the third one or do we nominate can you want to take it I I think you've got some good experience no I I just with my schedule and everything it's hard enough to get the commission nominate Joe okay so Joe and I will uh and then you needed a kickoff date right correct yes and maybe you know I don't know what the city's availability is to uh but maybe I don't know Jolene if we' want to maybe locate a couple days or something and we can I I think that would be probably most prudent just based on the fact that we have City attorney we have members of council folks here in this commission if we get a couple dates put together then we could figure out you know what will work for that kickoff and will those be I assume those will be public meetings correct yeah okay yeah okay um do we is your schedule Limited to certain times of days or evenings or evenings I can be I can be pretty flexible anytime but okay things are probably preferable okay yeah I'm can be available most evenings so okay yeah let's um I I'll let yeah because I know the mayor is on it and Kevin's on it so and then we've got of course the City attorney and and whoever from staff or Mark Mark you're H it as well you're be okay been nominated um so yeah you get to bring donuts you're the new guy there you go Mr chair um just for my purposes and the record could we just get a formal motion for the two nominees um being appointed to that steering committee all right I'll make a motion to nominate Don Steeler and Joe you're gonna have to help me with your last name GM to be on the airport steering committee I'll second all in favor I I I I is that an i out of you I okay and four eyes unanimous thank you Julene you keep keep us in line then I I think we'll just uh reach out to Jolene to look for a date that we can uh get and confirm with you guys then okay thank you so much yep all right thanks guys um we have anything on no a motion to adjourn we I actually have one other question because I'm a little confused the the cost for the steering committee is that coming out of the airport budget or is that coming out of the city General budget I believe that was allocated from the city's general fund it not from the airport okay I was just curious um I guess before we adjourn I'll do what we usually do and kind of run through all Commissioners have anything else to say or add or no nothing from Joe Kur I don't have anything either I want to thank everyone for being here tonight um is there a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn we have a motion and a second all in favor I we are adjourned at 41 [Music]