[Music] good evening 7 o' we'll call the meeting in order we ask you if you have a phone to make sure it's on silence Ken would you call the role please he ready to do the clch commissioner Lon here Sir Mr wner here Wagner excuse me Mr seeler here shair Gerard here commissioner young here commissioner stender here and last but not least commissioner Miller here thank you we ask if you're able please stand and join us for the Pledge of Allegiance Al to the flag of the United States of America to the rep for stands one nation indivisible and jusice for all chair is looking for a motion to approve the agenda as presented or with changes so moved I have a motion second I have a motion and a second it's an non abatable motion all those in favor signif by by saying I I I opposed extensions motion carries unanimously chair is looking for a motion to approve the consent agenda as presented or with changes Mr chair I move move approval of the um of Item B on the consent agenda but I wish to um handle item a on the consent a consent agenda separately do you want to pull item a from the consent agenda yes please okay any other hearing none take a motion to approve the consent agenda Item B site plan approval for Chase Bank 1232 Broadway Avenue West all those in favor signify saying I I opposed extenstions motion carries unanimously Susan you asked to have the Planning Commission meeting minutes pulled yes please I'm going to abstain on that particular item okay any other comments on the meeting minutes hearing none all those in favor of approving the Planning Commission meeting minutes from April 10th 2024 signify saying I I opposed abstentions I abstain sir I will abstain as well I was not here motion carries our first regular agenda item is a public hearing for a preliminary and final plat for and I apologize for Mass occurring this but I'm going to give it a go at G giov jenic Estates 7902 Northshore Trail this is a public hearing so what is so worked as evening is the staff uh will present the application as they understand it planning Commissioners will ask any questions they have regarding the application clarification Etc when that's complete we'll ask if the applicant wishes to add anything to it or we may have questions for the applicant then we will have the public hearing dur the public hearing everyone who wishes to speak to this issue will be invited up I'll give further directions at that time after the public hearing it'll come back for a decision by the Planning Commission so that's how this will works I believe Ken you're presenting yes I am Mr chair thank you as you introduced this is a request for preliminary and final plat for the property on the screen at 7902 Northshore Trail uh it's named jovanic thank you Chris uh Estates is the proposed uh plat name and I'll run through some of the highlights of our staff report for you the oh sure come on proposed preliminary plat for that property will does include four Lots one for the existing house at 7902 Northshore Trail and hopefully this will open up shortly second lot for another house on the NorthShore north side of Northshore Trail and then two small out Lots on the south side of Northshore Trail so there if approved there will be one additional house lot in House available on that property let's see if this one will work come the subject property is about 8 acres in size and about 5.15 Acres our Wetland area leaving about 2.95 acres and I apologize my computer's not playing nice uh as uh High Ground potentially developable the again the plat shows two lots for the single family homes on the North side excuse me Ken yep I I know the bulk of the guests this evening are interested in this so until you can get your AV going we'll just kind of sit here for a minute yep hang on let's see what I can do here H thank you okay that works just don't know that one worked why the others are not loading most unfortunate there we go thank you this is again enlarge it shows the proposed preliminary plat with the grading plan again existing house at 7902 Northshore Trail a second lot here which is actually this is the property line here for the second house that would be built here and for those who were at the neighborhood meeting this is an updated plan since that meeting uh they have shifted the house further to the East and move the driveway further to the east to be closer to the existing Drive way as was discussed at the neighborhood meeting uh again so one large lot with the existing house smaller lot here and then the two lot out Lots actually here and here on the south south side of Northshore Trail there would be no public improvements with this project or this plat again creating a lot for this home doesn't require any there's an existing sanitary sewer line that runs north south in this area serves the existing home would also have a service for this home which I believe is shown right here uh each lot will have a well for their water private water needs all all the lot sizes meet our city standards it's hard to read but this one has just over 25,000 square fet of buildable area and that is the minimum number that is required minimum square footage uh part of of any plat any subdivision that comes through the city we look and study what our Park dedication requirements are uh is allowed by state law and our subdivision ordinance and in this case by creating a second buildable lot now they're creating they will have two lots we're recommending a park dedication fee of $2,500 per lot for a total of $5,000 for this property one thing that we've found and we'll go back to this one this whole area of Northshore Trail including this triangular piece of land here with the three sheds or garages is all owned now by the applicant the property line comes down here they are proposing as part of the plat to dedicate this entire area to the city for Street R away for Northshore Trail so that's uh just over T of an acre that will be dedicated to the city for the roads the existing roads the uh sheds I touched on that are here staff is recommending as a condition of approval that they be removed because the plat when it's dedicated to and recorded this will now become City owned property and the city doesn't want private sheds on public property one of the concern another concern I should say that was brought up at our neighborhood meeting was about the wetlands and has the Watershed District reviewed this and are they aware of it and uh I confirm with them after the meeting that they have seen the plan they've confirmed the Wetland delineation it's a little hard to read here but this boundary is correct that was uh done back in 2020 it hasn't changed uh the Watershed district is noted that to me in their comments that the new home construction will require review and a permit from The Watershed District to uh ensure sediment and erosion control measures are put in place uh before and during construction which is a pretty standard permit for any house and the they also confirmed the Washington Conservation District concern are confirmed with me that they didn't to them it did not appear there would be any additional negative impacts to the wetlands by having the one home as shown uh our our city Engineers only comment on this proposal was to ensure that the city uh get a 20 foot wide drainage and utility easement over the sewer line because now it will serve more than one home and they are they have shown this again it's hard to see on this plan that uh easement as required by our city engineer uh again the Watershed districts uh will require permit for before the construction can start here uh I touched on our neighborhood meeting we had on April 24th I think there was six neighbors there plus the applicant talked about the driveway and it'd be nice if it could be shifted which they've done there's concerns about Wetlands another concern that was Express was about drainage there's a culvert that comes under Northshore Trail this General location excuse me helps drain a lot of this area even to the north and as part of this plat too this this right here describes it uh they will be dedicating a drainage and utility easement over all this Wetland area including the ditch and that will then give the city the legal right to go in and maintain and clean out that ditch if we need to which right now it's on private property and we do not have the easement rights to do that work so if needed or when it's needed that having that easement in place will give us that opportunity as a city to take care of the ditch let's see now I'll touch on the outlots again there's Outlaw B it's this little one Outlaw a is here excuse me and these are put in place by the surveyor because of something called judicial monuments and that was a process that was done in p in the past because there was boundary property boundary disputes on these lots and as I understand it some of the other ones along Northshore Trail and judicial monuments are monuments that are set by a surveyor after a court process and a court hearing when there's a dispute about property lines it goes to a court and judge and they get an order from the court saying no here's where the new boundary is going to be which is down here while the current property line still shows A and B as part of the applicant's property so by creating the two out Lots they will not be public right away they will be privately owned with the intention of acing to the two adjoining properties to the South no longer owned by this owner the applicant and it will help clear up any confusion or discrepancy on who owns what there it's something that because those monuments are in place in the surveyor found them they are really required by state law to include those in the plat and have those called out so they have done so in the staff report for the commission outlined our preliminary plat review criteria and our review criteria for final plats and in both those cases uh what the criteria said is here's a list of reasons why the city should deny a request uh none of those criteria were met with this proposal in fact it meets all our city requirements so we're recommending approval they don't meet those denial uh standards that are in our code so lastly on page seven of this report which is Page 64 in your packets we're recommending as chairman introduced that the commission hold a public hearing take comments close a hearing and discuss preliminary and final plats again for this four Lots with the two existing homes and the two all lots and we're recommending uh this be approved subject to the 15 conditions in the staff report uh I will not read through all of them but uh they include that the applicant or owner get all the necessary permits from The Watershed District before starting any work on the construction of this new home on this lot uh and just to be clear this is a recommendation from the commission this will go to the city council probably on May 28th and they will make the final decision whether to approve or not I think with that I'll stop and take questions from the commission Commissioners questions Susan um you North is is up on our map so East is to the right as we look at it correct yes okay so when when you when you were talking about it where did the driveway move and it's really important to me that there not be a shared driveway they are not for these two properties we uh we had that discussion at the neighborhood meeting and I told the neighbors that the city would not support that let me slide this over this shows a little better here's the proposed driveway here okay it was over more in this location so it shifted closer to this property line and with respect to um lot two there is a future out building proposed there that looks of significant size can on this zoning um type what is what are the permissions for an out building because if we approve this plant it does include the out building no no it just shows that this is a location that could be built the plat if I may Mr chair please only creates the Lots okay it doesn't guarantee what could be built or not built other than it creates a lot that a house could be built on here doesn't but to answer your question maximum size is probably allowed 1,500 or 2,000 Square F feet based on the acreage of this lot being more than five acres and the zoning code allows for a an accessory building of that type yes thank you other questions of Staff we ask if the applicant would like to add anything to what the staff has added or I could add a couple things Chris step up to the I asked you step up state your name and address for the record please Chris gavick 792 Northshore Trail Forest Lake um the concering that out building in the back I was just having him draw something on there for future down the road just to see if it would fit that's not something we're trying to do right now anyways um so that was just a thing I had a add on there because I wasn't sure what was possible to do back there um other than that pretty much bent over backwards to get everything we could possibly think of included for the city the rways and the delineations I've done soil engineering reports in fact I did go to the Watershed district and get the permit and met with Mike yesterday I a received for that um he had no problem with that he helped me drw what we needed to draw up um our sewers already in and stubbed up out the powers already ran back there for something like this and I said we meet every possible requirement that the city wants so any questions to the applicant thank you we may have questions after the public hearing all right thanks this is a public hearing way this will work is that we ask if anyone who wishes to speak to this application step up to the mic to the lect please state your name and address for the record spend a couple minutes giving us your thoughts on on this application once we have heard from everyone in the room who wishes to speak as well as anyone online or any emails to be read in uh we will close the public hearing and then it'll come back for just discussion with the um Planning Commission so we do take public input there's not a lot of discussion necessarily but we just we'll make sure everything's clear so with that we will open the public hearing at 7:19 p.m. does anyone wish to speak to this application hello my name is Keith coonley I'm at 7841 noar Trail um can you mention that the plot has changed or the drwings have changed since the neighborhood meeting and I was wondering if you can convey is there anything besides the location of the house and the location of the driveway that's changed since the ne no that was the primary change the lot lines and the dimensions have not changed it's just just shifting the house and the driveway closer to this driveway okay um I'm I'm the owner of joining uh Outlaw a so I'm wondering who I would refer to going forward to uh deal with the deed that has to be uh accompanying that Outlaw a and being transferred to my property so who would so you're the owner of the property to the South to the south of out L yes Ken how does that work I don't really know for transferring the ownership there will have to be Deeds prepared from the owner of Outlaw Aid to conveying it to the owner to the South or the adjacent owners and does the city help with that then or uh we haven't worked out that detailed but yeah we should help facilitate that make sure it gets taken care of as part of the plat because it affect me my property as well as uh your property Jing mine are next to mine on the east side that's corre have out attached as well so any yeah any help you can provide for appreciate thank you thank you anyone one try to that again anyone else wish to speak to this application um Dennis Peterson 7656 Northshore Trail North um just a story to begin with about where those houses are I've lived there for 74 years that was my dad's land just about where that house is is Rel lost cattle in there that kept right on thinking and refilled that area with uh soil and stuff from the farm to stabilize it we actually had it fenced off so we wouldn't have an accident there uh there's probably a disc sitting down there too that is who knows how deep it is I'm just concerned about what it is like underneath there when we were kids we used to take a pole and stick through and once we get down about two feet we go down about 30 feet before we hit bottom uh the other issue is the let's see um I own that the property uh with the ditches uh when the township went through that they restricted that to a one party use because of the same situation of multiple people wanting to use it um the person who created the euts uh was not the owner um I am working on dissolving those that are non Perpetual uh property to the east of uh 7902 they do have a legitimate eastment because that's the original original one um and let's see so yeah I guess that's s get to say unless there's anything else so so to clarify it then just to help everybody up here um Outlaw B he's deny is describing the that 25 foot parcel down to the lake and out Lot B will be part of the deed that goes to him and also why those property lines are recess to the South is because the marker that they measured off the other two properties was the old marker which was 14 ft off I believe um so those two were actually correct uh A and B but uh the other two were not ever corrected and because down the line everybody was changing their posts and things down the line so on my side I live at 76 56 um my property line moves South 14 ft the north side so that's a little history of living there forever any questions we're good okay um before we continue on I'll just let me clarify something here with this lot lines um I as most of you know on the commission I live probably about six houses to the east of of this parcel um all of the parcels in this stretch are all off due all along here chair they were platted and all the way down to where they go on the other side of the street and I don't know what happens then because I don't know any of those neighbors um but they're all off and so they're we had the ass platted and then Washington County came through and remeasured it and said no they're all off um so most of us spent thousands getting judicial monuments in the as platted location at we all started with um so that's kind of the history and and it moves around exactly how many feet off we were you know if it was today and they did it all off a GPS life would be grand but I don't know what happened back then but and I don't know how far it goes in all the directions but there's a lot of lot of us that I know all the way from the first uh beige house at least to Dean you're you're you're uh monumented right yes yeah at least to Dean's house and Dean is uh here is further from the he's 7931 right yeah so I know their monumented at least down of there I'm not quite sure how many more are but they they end up being exact you go to court and it ends up in the exact same spot um that we do so that's just a little bit of History history lesson on the lake the 33 years I've been there uh so back to the public heing who else would L like to speak to this application are they disputing that are is anybody disputing their marker at all at this point uh I don't think anyone's disputing the markers it's been pretty black and white typically um now that we're all you know these would all just move this way and so it doesn't matter much when you go way on the other side of me there's a couple pie-shaped Lots they were much more interested in going to the West all right thank you excuse the interruption sorry ma'am no worries um Sher Muller Zan 7871 Northshore Trail I'm across the street from the proposed development um I just want to express my concern around the fact that this is a protected watershed area this is was a protected wetland PL um and always has been even at the point where uh we actually considered purchasing the property and doing something with it so at that time it was we were told it was never going to be developed um I work for a nature center in St Paul so I'm I'm not a tree hugger but I am uh very um astute and worried and concerned about the habitat and the wildlife um that is living in this area I'm concerned about the the fact that it is a swamp and it's flooded right now um I'm concerned about the safety factor of someone living in a house built in the middle of a swamp not to mention the mosquitoes but um it just can't be healthy at that living in a house that's in the middle of a swamp area um I also question since I live across the street and right next to the Ravine um what that is going to do what that development will do to the the swamp and the water flow that has come that comes through that area um goes through the area down the parcel that Denny was just referring to into Forest Lake um and there's fish spawning up in that area they come up in the spring and they spawn and they go back so I'm concerned about that uh not to mention the safety around a driveway being added to Northshore Trail on the other side on a sharp turn where we've had cars in our front in our front yard that is missed or um potentially swerved out of the way from hitting someone coming around that corner so uh I I just see a lot of con I have a lot of concern about this and so I think I'm voicing my opinion so that those factors are built into your decisions as you go forward and think about and look at the actual neighborhood and the effect that this uh build will have on the environment the wildlife the habitat the houses that are our already there and the safety of the folks who are driving Northshore and coming around that corner um so that's what I wanted to bring today thank you for your thank you anyone else wish to address this application good evening Josh Parker 7881 Northshore Trail North um I just have a couple concerns that we had been brought up at at the neighborhood meeting uh number one is the driveway and the location of the driveway um there's a lot of non- impervious material that's in that location um I have concerns of where that water is going to go here again living across the street that water can flow into our house and have noticeably increased and since the house that's existing there has already been built um hoping that that Flowage continues to go however back piggy backing on what Sherry has is where is that water going to go will it go into that drainage ditch into that easement into Lake how is that going to be managed and I think that those are the biggest concerns with that um here again we've looked at purchasing this slot many many years ago and we're told the exact same thing we can't build on it we thought about preserving it for Wetlands the same thing so just our concerns with voicing with putting two houses that close together in that area in that location really could cause some issues with drainage and easements so thank you anyone else wish to address this application it's public hearing but once again I'll ask you to state your name and address for the record you know there's a lot of people at home watching us like three Chris G 7902 Northshore Trail I I know that some people have talked about building on this property in the past and they couldn't but they didn't hire someone to do a wetland delineation they didn't hire someone to do a soil test and come back with the results and draw up plans that have drainage all factored in and get that approved by the Wetland people and this isn't on the Wetland the area that I'm we're going to build it's not touching the Wetland whatsoever any runoff that's there now is going to run off to the same the same place just maybe a little higher elevation and any cover we put in you know as noted by Ken would be pitched in such a way that the water will flow through there so I don't see this changing anything for the Wetland thank you that's all what one second sir please Chris while while I've got you where on the map where is the drainage that that folks are talking about that they're concerned there is a ditch that goes under and is that I don't have access to that map like you guys so y so you can there is a cover under the driveway that's existing right now all right over here and we just redrew the plans to have a longer driveway and a bigger driveway to turn around and address the safety issues that people want to be concerned about and we mooved the driveway probably I want to say 12 feet from the existing driveway since we couldn't have a shared driveway okay so Susan the the 25 ft AIS where out Lot B will be south of there no no up the house that's where the Culvert that road goes across the road there and drains into that 25t okay that whole Wetland area back in the back channels through there but that won't be changed okay looking at at the at the topographic lines much of lot one drains back to the Northwest before it comes through that ditch and as you've got your proposed building pad um 9006 9008 9904 there is a fairly significant amount of um of of swamp um and I I did drive by there today the refrigerator is going to go right it's a what never mind um didn't hear you yeah that's okay um there's so that that has has time to soak but is there any other Culvert across the road where you've got your proposed building pad that goes south to the lake no just a proposed cover under the driveway to keep the water flowing down the ditch line yep okay and then we're you know we have to stay 50 ft away from the Wetland mhm and which is all on the proposal there but everything pitches back towards that from that point of the house I have a whole drainage plant on there yep okay thank you thanks um back to my ditch um there uh I think what the I'm worried concerned about the extra water Flowage because of the topography there's going to be more water running um I'm concerned about the erosion in the ditch it's uh going to be an issue it's starting to lose its spot now um and um I think on the maps that you have it has a blue line the township got an easement I believe it was a 33t easement for maintenance from that from all the way from there up to the circle on the the development that think is Northshore Meadows to the road that ditch actually starts in my backyard goes under the road comes back out and heads to the lake and the township had an eastment to take care of that all the way down to the lake so that should have already been established in the township records middle 80 85 86 I believe that was taken care of so um I'm wondering if they think could you should consider maybe something for that ditch to stabilize it The Loner Culvert to the lake or something to keep that from washing out so I'll give my commercial now as long as we're still public hearing there if if if you watch the uh April 22nd uh city council meeting uh so just recently um they spent an hour uh you got to go a little bit into it but they spent an hour on uh what are they going to do in Northshore Trail um and in fact the Culvert that goes that is um the last house by mine 70 Ron and Carrie live before the houses jump back as you go to the east that's one of the coverts they show that's probably defunct and if they have covert problems all up and down there and the plan is when they do redo it is to replace them all with reinforced concrete culs so it's it's a kind of an interesting discussion you know it's like anything else it's a little like watching paint dry when it's a city meeting um but you know they do cover it at Great Lengths of why they only want to pave it and some of the other stuff so if you're uh have trouble sleeping it it takes about it's about an hour presentation uh from the April 2 you can find it on the city website under the city meetings um because that c is failing that's going underneath the road I informed the to town um last year and they said they were on it and I did just reply back to see if there was any update on it but I haven't received a reply because the end of it is caving in and the dirt is starting to go and and heading to the lake so I just wanted to make sure that that was going to be taken care of in the process you make a note of that K cul concerns and I have another story my dad dug that ditch in in 1945 and it was actually to get water from the lake to go to a watering Pond just past that area there about 100 yards in and then the water actually flowed from there down to the probably his property line and then went to First Lake um through that channel until they connected the Hayward that Hayward to Northshore Circle that was open there and that's where the water used to run when the water when they connected the road started to build up so the Township in early 60s luckily it was a dry year they came in and reshaped that to get the flow to go to the lake because it wouldn't float to First lake anymore so my dad was the one that dug that in and quite water out of the lake for the cattle bullheads kept the pond clean it was a good setup until we finally got the barn and water built so that's my story thank you thank you you're welcome hello Keith kley from 7841 Northshore Trail the corner of the southeast lot the city's going to take that over as city right right away what what does the city plan to do with it what's the expectations as the neighbors we can expect to see with that property going forward I don't think there's any there's no no plans R changes there just if you look on this map the property line comes all around here and so our City street is on private property by the plat with this being dedicated to the city now all of this will be dedicated street right away for public purpose meaning me meaning that meaning the city legally owns it or will legally own you have no plans to do anything with it we can never say never right but there's no imminent plans to put in a trail or widen the road or anything like that you determine what the sliver property is on the on the very west side of that property over here yes that that stays that's because that's not part of this property right correct it's not here's the property line so there's a little strip of land there that someone else somebody El on okay thank you anyone else wish to speak this application excuse me Ken do we have anyone online who wishes to speak uh Mr chair I do not see anybody any emails to be read in or any correspondence uh none since the updates I receiv received from The Watershed District which I spoke of during my presentation all right that being said one last call for anyone who wishes to speak to this application see no one come forward we'll close the public hearing at 7:41 p.m. Commissioners what would you like to do I'd make the motion to recommend to the city council approval of the preliminary plat and final plat for the PID 1.032 2.2 1.13.3 plus the 15 conditions I have a motion do I have a second second I have a motion in a second any discussion on the motion yes I I would like to add a condition six I would have liked to have added a condition 16 we can still do that that the Deeds to the two outlots be put in place or at least um ready to file at the same time that with the may I with the recording of the final PL thank you words yes um and and I apologize I didn't jumping quick enough but I think that that would be important to make sure that everybody sometimes those those transfers they get put on a back burner and in the interest of the city and in the interests of the proper property owners in question I think making sure that those deeds are transferred at the time of recording um would be important Kevin would commissioner young uh chair Mr chair I'll uh withdraw my motion and change it uh adding the 16th condition I thought that was covered in there so I apologize I missed that with the Deeds to be transferred uh on recording thank you and do we have a second second thank you okay any other discussion on the motion hearing none all in favor signify saying I I hi oppos extensions motion carries unanimously and again Mr chair for the members of the audience here again that this is a recommendation city council will make the final decision and we have it penciled in for Tuesday May 28th right back here there we held a public hearing for this so there will not be a public hearing at the city council meeting since we are the body that holds the public hearing however at the beginning of every city council meeting there is a public forum so if you wish to speak it's right after I believe about the approval of the agenda um that is a public form and you can bring up any subject that you wish to discuss yes Susan I think that there is more protection for the residents with the city owning now that drainage Outlet or that drainage outlot um the city cannot do drainage work on private property um so so for any improvements previously to have been made it would have been more challenging now with the city owning that Outlaw B well no you've got out Lot B now no that no that goes to the residents that goes to the resident yes okay Jo property Mr chair and Susan we all this becomes draining utility ement which we don't know much better yeah and also well we didn't find the record well this will it'll be belts and suspenders then Mr shair May uh if there's members of the audience who want to give additional comments before the city council meeting and you can email me or call me we can include those in the updated staff report before the so it gets in the record for the city council it doesn't go to the property owner this is going to be City I was just clarifying that the uh the parcel the 2 5 foot parcel south of Outlaw B is actually a private easement it is not public easement my ear I apologize so that's where the confusion is um so I want to thank you all for coming uh good luck with your you stay but you don't have to actually the next item about the Environmental Center is pretty cool you don't get out much but we we'll move on to item um 6B for the revised site plan approval Washington County Northern Environmental Center 6065 Headwaters Parkway again we will be making a recommendation to the city you want to let the room clear for a moment the I had to watch the stars games while I was in Austin did you oh I bet that was that's the way to break a mother's heart is to have her daughter move to Texas and suddenly become a Dallas Stars fan it's wrong in so many ways let's let's bring it back to focus uh again we will move on to item 6B the revised site plan approval for the Washington County Northern Environmental Center at 6065 Headwaters Parkway again the Planning Commission this will be a recommendation to the city council and it's not it's not a public hearing it's not a public hearing we had that so as you introduced Mr chair this is a request for approval of a site plan revision for the northern Washington County Northern environment Center which is on this property I'll pull up a better map uh see if this this is the plat we got one more map here and the request before you this evening or why it's before you this evening is when they they the county received their approvals last year that was only for this part of the site and this has turned North is this way apologize because the way the plans are laid out and at that time they knew they were going to try to make her this road connection of Headwaters Parkway out the highway 61 but they had not received all the plan approvals and had not dotted all the eyes and crossed the tees to submit those plans and get those approved by mide and so the approved site plan essentially stopped right here for all this the president projects was again approved last August and by the commission and C Council construction started in October or November they've been going great guns most of the winter but now they are now requesting Amendment approval of an amendment to the site plan to allow the construction of Headwaters Parkway so that is why this is before you this evening the C code says once the site plan is approved by the city typically the Planning Commission a major revisions to an approved site plan need to go to the Planning Commission for a recommendation and then to the city council for final approval I would argue when we're talking about updating the zoning code that maybe revisions to site plan could just be done at the Planning Commission it doesn't seem necessary sidebar that the council review on when they didn't review the initial site plan to begin with but that's what the code says now digress I digressed I flared a little bit but thank you so the proposal is to build this public road and and to be clear Headwaters Parkway I'll try to get to a better map here this somewhat shows it this will be uh a public Street it was always intended to be a public Street it'll be the fourth leg of this intersection where Headwaters Parkway is with the traffic signal come in and then go to the north line of their site which will be right this is when they platted the property they left the right away so the Rota would go here to this property line to serve the city property which we hope eventually to be a new Public Works facility so again their Public Road uh it had at this submitt had what was called 95% plan approval by the state the city engineer had a few comments they are working on those uh one of the things I was most concerned about and had a worked or alerted them early on was the need for landscaping in this area again we did not have an improved Landscaping plan because this wasn't part of the project plans with phase one the intent of this Landscaping is especially for southbound going westbound vehicles that this provide screening because there are houses right down here to the South uh so provide so for this home and down the line uh and you'll see in my comments on page 73 they've clearly show Landscaping I'm not convinced that it's all 100% needed to be for opaque we we're striving to have it 90% opaque for the entire year so one of my conditions is I'm recommending these Three Trees here which are oh what are they hu service berries which are more a decorative tree be changed to a some kind of a coniferous tree the lighting plan that they are proposing does meet our city standards and this shows that it's standard light and there would be lights along the new road they are proposing a 10-ft wide Trail along the west side of the road again to connect in to the trail system here in the the Crossing uh an important element of this project and the county understands this is that there will be major changes to the intersection and the traffic signal system to accommodate the fourth leg uh and I'll touch on in conditions well I'll just read it uh we are recommending that one condition be that Washington County be responsible for all the costs of this road all the way through it's their County project to serve them in the end yes the city will get some action or actions forward access to the north but with this project including all the changes for the signal system striping signage construction inspections that uh the county be responsible for all those costs and that's actually uh condition seven in your conditions so really it's it it's straightforward other than we have have to go through this exercise of having this revised site plan reviewed by the plane commission uh approved by the city council so in short uh and just today I got an update a set of plans that they're addressing more the engineer conditions I haven't studied them and we just got them at four o'clock but uh we will take those to the council uh they are working with the Watershed District to meet all their concerns again this this was all laid out with because there's one little Wetland here that they they have to deal with otherwise all the major wetlands are over here and they've been planning for this all along so it's not really a surprise to see staff is just now going through the formality of getting it approved and getting the details worked out so we're recommending as a staff approval of the revised plans and this is in the recommendation uh starting on page 75 subject to the 15 conditions that I've listed in staff report and with that I will take questions questions for staff they're maintaining that then complete plow and service and everything else for now yes there there will probably be some discussions if if and when the Public Works facility goes into the north of who will plow it but since they're the the only user or will be the only user for the foreseeable future it will be their responsibility Kevin uh can I noticed you had an intersection plan there on Forest Boulevard and Headwaters Parkway yeah is there trying to determine is the county putting in turn Lanes yes for left and right and and in and out yes so there will be they have to widen Highway 61 here have a right turn lane into the site and they have to do some widening here to have a left turn lane to come into the site uh and those are all m. requirements and these plans don't show them well but yes to answer your question thank you Tim I was going to touch on the Landscaping it says that the required Landscaping was considerably more than the BOS uh on page 73 if you could just briefly touch on that I it is a large par of County oh that F I'm I the first part of the Landscaping was for the Landscaping of the overall site okay the last paragraph at the bottom of the page touches on the change to the Landscaping which is the addition of these trees which are so the the bulk of that talks about the landscaping around the entire site okay sorry for the confusion but the focus is really on this Landscaping here Susan and thank you for introducing the landscape because how are they going to maintain that um landscaping and how is it going to be watered uh it's it's cool if they put it in and then it dies in three years um and it needs to be maintained because we've seen what happens when we allow the developer or the HOA to maintain the trees on the other side of Headwaters Parkway so how what are we going to do to learn and make sure that those trees are maintained to provide the screening for the residents um maybe we add a propose another condition to specifically call that all I had not thought of that other questions to staff yeah I I do so while we're on this Landscaping these trees um I see where the trees are shown here and and it's to create this screen from the residential where show with your cursor where that residential is and how just just that spot right there well these are all or there's four homes along here okay so you're screening the view of that part of the road as all I mean you they're still going to see the building back there aren't they yes my biggest concern is if there's vehicles was heading south oh I see the headlight issue the headlight issue okay that that's what I okay let's go back to the picture with the um so was coming so then I was looking back at your table that he brought up before about the required versus proposed and they they seem woefully under the required and all we're doing is suggesting adding three or four trees why not suggest more to really make sure that that corner is covered and those people aren't getting headlights in there house I mean why just suggest three or four why not 10 or show them going up to the corner well I think is there they're only changing three or four they're adding like 13 14 trees here yeah all these are all these would be new if I may Mr chair yes uh the concern is we can't have trees getting too close to the intersection because of visibility understood down there yes so where I was proposing is these would be replaced with some other kind of lack of better term Pine or coniferous Tre to beef up this area now if the concern is this would not be enough could they add some more back in here and even continuing toward the corner as the road turns toward the recycling center not down there not by the intersect but up in here because as they come back down that road with the headlights because of the curve in that road the half of that building there is going to be or you know a quarter of that building is is going to be getting a lot of headlights if if that's the the reason for these trees anyway I I mean I just think they're so woefully under the required why not why not have them you add four trees why not add 10 trees and it is an environmental center it's an environmental center think there you go we are trying to replace trees in this area good car if I may interject is there a number that the commission wants to discuss it' be comfortable I was recommending replacing these three with four to five trees I can you slide over your drawing a little bit for a sec and and I would just draw a straight line where the the drive lane is if someone's driving on the right side of the road exiting the property and you just draw a straight line out where their headlights are going to be as they as go back further to the right in that drawing by that 15 or even further because those headlights there are even aimed to the below that property yeah there you go yeah see now we've got a curve so these are right so if you imagine how the headlights are pointing out to left down there I would want to make sure that's all covered that's that's my only thought so most of the curve on the way East would that be correct East South going to the South as it keep going around the road to the north is to our right I mean going to the north north is to our right here so yeah start where your Cur and hand you don't have to be as far over as where your cursor is right but where that Headwaters Parkway arrow is maybe there and maybe not that far but no you certainly want go further I think than than where they're shown now is just to be clear more in here or a double roll Behind These oh I don't know that you need a well I'm not a tree expert so to know what's going to cover opacity and and that but I would at least show someone with Landscaping can pick out the trees and whatever but they should go around further down around that corner to the north especially since eventually it'll be a public works facility and those are going to be dump trucks going through at 2 and 3:00 in the morning to plow roads that's even more reason to do it how we clear wait hold on one second we like trees I I know we're all tree lovers um are we clear where Don would like it to go to I think if if I'm reading it right down it's from if you're starting here and driving around this curve want to make sure if the vehicle's pointed right so we got to get maybe some more down in here down in there and whether they just keep going in a straight line down or follow the curve of the road I don't know that that matters um whatever breaks that headlight Yeah Tim if you look at page 81 that's a considerable size grass there is there any reason why we couldn't do a couple rows of trees so if you look at I'm looking at the actual aerial shot I mean one row of trees along that roadway right along there doesn't seem like a lot of cover when you have that much ground I think you could do a couple rows of trees in there and you have plenty of room this this somewhat shows it doesn't show this is the overall plan so it be down in here yeah page 81 though the aerial shot no I I didn't print that so which okay sorry we all got it but if you is it this one yes that one right there okay so if you look look at that corner that's a sizable amount of property I don't see any reason they couldn't put a couple rows of trees in there it is an environmental center yeah there's room I house there I know if I was the neighbor and there was open grass I'd want it planted with trees especially like you said with the possible addition of a city lot next to it if we could get some more Greenery in there in that corner instead of grass it might help so if I can summarize and we're looking to get to the curve in the road and we're looking to make it a more dense tree line for opacity that correct so yes beef up this area yes all the way down there where it says Headwaters down there a little right little farther to the right yeah right there about there looks good and as long as we're making we're in that recommendation then let's make sure that there are is um with provision to maintain and appropriately water during establishment get them far enough off the road so the salt don't kill them exactly U if I so um first I'm not a landscaping expert what is the difference between an understory and an overstory tree or shrub under stories are usually smaller diameter and more of a ornamental tree or an over story might be an oak or Big Maple or even larger and so our requirement is 454 under over stories or under stories and we're letting them get by with 81 and we have a requirement for 151 over stories and we're letting him get by with 64 my question is why are we doing that and and if I were in those houses and I was looking out sitting in my backyard staring at that building I would be not very happy so my question is why can't they plant a whole bunch of trees over on that side to give those people in their backyards when they're sitting out enjoying the beautiful backyards they have privacy so they're not staring at a Environmental Center and why are we not putting more trees and shrubs along um Forest Boulevard so that when you're driving down the road you don't look and see this ugly excuse me building uh sitting there where you could do nice trees and stuff to kind of give it a nice uh U shade or a nice uh screening which we require every other business in our town to do so I don't think we should let let them get away with not planting more trees or having more scream more shrubs but that's my opinion okay other comments on that Park like note that you're describing can you just briefly talk about the extension of the trail uh why are we extending a walking trail that way what's the benefit for getting the trail that way I know we recently had an act an accident on the highway with kids crossing the highway there is there a reason or a benefit for crossing the trail across the highway and if so what is the walking trail for I Mr chair first of all the this will this is a signal on intersection so hopefully it'll be a lot safer than the one where the accident happen encourage people to use that signal uh the I think the ultimate goal long term get the Trail built up to this point and if and when the city builds a public works facility up here as part of that continue the trail all the way up to County Road 50 somehow parallel to the highway or somehow through the site to get out to the north so that you've got you've got a solid trail that makes sense to that signalized intersection and not have to use the crosswalk that's there now where they AC at the current time I don't see anywhere for the walking trail well it doesn't go anywhere we always build what we even when we do developments we'll bring it to the edge of the development and expect the next developer takes it takes it correct because if we don't have the county build it now guess who's going to build it later if the city wants sounds good thank you and Ken the reason for my concern about maintenance is we had a conditional use permit down on the vinco property that required it to be screened and they have taken down those trees and so I just want to make sure that this that this we say and yes you will maintain those make sure that there is you know adequate infrastructure to maintain the trees if I may Mr shair I was going to propose a condition similar to something that County shall be responsible for maintenance of all the Landscaping on the entire site blanket coverage over and then we'll revise a condition about which is 13e about the planting of the trees and to be maintained in number and condition as required per the approved plan thank you that way they don't get chop half of them down in 20 years just don't plant a lot of ash trees so um Kevin I want to come back to you for a minute with this additional trees you're suggesting uh all the way down between Forest Boulevard at a new Headwaters Parkway they have some trees in there almost along the boulevard here well you know I'm I'm just speaking if if it were me and and and it's not but we do have residents there and it is going to be a very busy place and and you know so I think it's really important to have trees like we've already discussed uh around that curve I don't know why they just can't come all the way down to the pond I don't see any problem with that but across the front my I guess why do we need to have the front so visible um and wide open I mean I get it it's an environmental center but what goes on there is not very fun in terms of the traffic that's going to be coming in and out the trucks you know Vehicles all day long you know those sort of things um but does it need to be that visible from the front that we can't have them put a bunch of trees down the front of Forest Boulevard to make it look nice I think that a bunch of trees would be good however these are going to be residential Vehicles these are these are my car your car whatever and I do want to make sure that they know where they need what they're looking for so enough to see it and the County's done a decent job to to their credit that the front of the building that's facing Forest Road is is going to be well better than a couple of the other businesses that are along there um and that most of the the messy stuff is going to be in the back hidden by the building sure but I I think that it would be good to have significantly more Landscaping as associated with an environmental center and I would love to see along Forest Road once we've we've cleared that curve to to block to have things that are are natives or things that are the understory things like um juneberries or or the um the some of the Native low cherries or or the native crab apples or things like that yeah well you on even down on the the backside by the retaining wall I mean you have you know very few trees between that and the wetlands there why couldn't you bring the trees all the way up along that whole Wetland um I mean they're supposed to give us 454 getting 81 they're supposed to give us 151 we're getting 64 I mean that's 600 trees we're getting 140 Tre I mean to me that seems not reasonable but are we getting more Park dedication money or anything like that because it's County right so we're getting a brand new road that will eventually serve the public work facility sure is there a a monument sign up by the road Ken I don't remember from the no the only M been sign that we're going to have is right right about here so be one of those brown signs or blue signs that say because environmental once they turn off of the new road that's a private driveway into into the Environmental Center there might be a one directional sign way out here is a left that just be one of the metal signs like it says airport this way and what are we planning on the north side of that place again uh city um up up here yeah north of it yeah uh hopefully eventually a new Public Works fac so new public works you know and I know there's some trees there but there's not many trees there where they could plant a bunch of trees for our public between that site in the public works department as well we're just saying to me whatever we decide we decide but we're supposed to get a whole lot of trees and we're not this is Forest Lake it's starting to become not Forest Lake because everywhere you look people are cutting down trees right and we used to have a rule I thought where if you took down a tree you had to plant two or three or something like that and I don't see that being enforced anywhere I see people along the lake clear cutting Lots on the lake that they're not supposed to I see people in their backyards clear cutting trees and nobody's enforcing anything with replanting trees so we have an opportunity to at least get some trees yeah okay I mean just I'm just speaking out loud whatever you guys wanted to no I I when I saw that table I thought the same thing I wow that's a big discrepancy between what's required and what's proposed and if they put Irrigation in of any sort to to water which I'm hoping we require they're going to grow just fine okay just my thought so the question is um for the Commissioners that this it seems that everything else is fine it's just a matter of the trees and so we want to do that as a uh couple of additional conditions or do we want to see the plan back here again uh which would require then a um a motion to table table which is not going to be favorable but so this doesn't go back to council then or doesn't go to council yeah so council could still say no right correct to what we've added go ahead Susan oh sorry Susan what if we were to say Where's which which are the re uh the conditions is the Landscaping condition I'm sorry Ken I 13e towards the bottom of page 76 so to reward 13e well and if I may so right above that 13d is a real generic yes as may be required by the city um if we want to call out what changes then there's an opportunity Planning Commission are we willing do we need a 100% of the required trees or are we willing to say at least 80% of the required overstory and understory trees yeah I mean that's a good way to say it is uh tell them at least 80% 20 over story trees and I'm the table that's in the middle of page 73 that's left over from the approval from last year that it was just showing and essentially we the city cut up a lot of slack part because so we approved that we approve that as as that table is showing right there that's on their so you're right commissioner Miller this is an opportunity to get more trees to get that better make it more and maybe part I I don't want to say why it was the way it was part of it is I know they were just running out of room when they're on the site a lot of this South part is Wetlands but you're right this whole area has a potential for tree planting and maybe some trees a Boulevard effect along Forest Boulevard is certainly an option I don't know that we could get to those numbers but there certainly could be more plantings trees and shrubs than this little bit here can you got a number of mine oh now you're going to put me on the spot uh I would what is this this 12 or 13 I would think between this and here we might be able to get to 40 or 50 trees guessing quick that's an addition to the 64 that they're show they're proposing on there yeah the 64 is what's going in up primarily around the building okay so this would be an additional correct so we're up at 110 trees roughly which is 75% of I mean I I like Susan's way of saying 75% of the required but so and let's let's go with that let's let's say that that that that such landscape changes required by the city shall shall meet 75% of the of the normally required overstory and under story plantings now that's a that's going to be a significant increase in the under Story I mean that's going to be 300 trees as opposed to 81 trees or that can be shrubs that's how shrubs okay and and again with an environmental center you've got an opportunity to put things like Beauty Berry and Juneberry and and some of those natives that yeah would en enhance an environmental center since they are going to be having tours and classes and things there it it works into a natural thing of sustainability do a nice Park area I mean yeah that like you say with the tours and stuff that Y and and just with that we also want the emphasis along here for the screening purposes I I think those should come all the way down to that Wetland almost I mean okay so where wherever they can fit them in but certainly in here and then maybe on the long yep for yes okay and then work with staff on a final plan before yes got it and that gives you and the county a little bit of flexibility I think I've got meeting 75% of the normal planting requirements for the site for with over story and understory yeah with this emphasis yes this first most important point of empis any other discussion regarding uh this application we just need the The Continuous maintenance and that's in there at at 13B or whatever it was there no C 13 c um that's part of it yeah but I was also suggesting a condition County be responsible for maintaining all Landscaping number and conditions for the approve plans was that could be a I guess a 13g yes I don't want to tell you how to make your motion but that's no 13 G that would be a good 13g County to be responsible for maintenance uh of of all Landscaping of all Landscaping to to maintain number and condition number and condition required in the this cup for the approved plans for good I don't want to put words in your mouth but I think that's what you meant yes sir thank other discussion Kevin no I'm good chair then is looking for a motion to recommend I move approval of oh got to get all the way up here we're all the way 75 of the revised site plan submitted by Washington County for the northern Environmental Center with the addition of um the the city required Landscaping shall uh meet 75% of the normally required um under story and overstory vegetation and with the addition of a um G I think it's 3G 13g 13g that the county shall um help me again shall be responsible for the maintenance of all landscaping materials number and condition per the approved plant thank you I will second I have a motion and a second discussion I have one comment uh can you have two number 13s I hate that when that happens you got uh he do it should be so really should be 14 15 16 yes thank you any other discussion hearing none all those in favor signif saying I I opposed extensions motion carries unanimously again this will schedule to go to the Council on the 28th all righty okay we'll move to uh staff updates is council person Roberts online tonight no I spoke to him today and he thought with Mother's Day coming up and being in foral business he might be a little busy this evening and unable to attend and so no all right so Ken what do you have for us uh as the agenda says Mr chair the next meeting on the 22nd is canell I do know we will have a meeting on June 12th that's the first be the first meeting in June I know of at least one application and potentially a second one uh really the only other update of interest is the zoning code update with the architecture and the reorganization that you heard and the re reing realigning I want to say rejiggering but that doesn't S uh that was approved by the council so that's in effect now no again no text changes just numbering reorganizing hopefully later this year we will have the time and the staff to uh tackle starting some of the text changes but I don't know if you've heard but Jamie our Park the rec coordinator resigned from the city and last Friday was her last stay so we are now once again short staff and so Abby and da are and others are helping with arts and the park and some of those duties so there will be some other things we'll just have to wait a little bit until we get set questions for Ken can I have Kevin just uh update uh anything new with the gone Proposal with the downtown area not a peep okay it's my understanding that council is talking about revisions to the boat launch I've heard that I haven't studied or been in any of the meetings so I I can't comment more than that okay can I I have this uh resolution to sign and and I see we have a city clerk now Jolene Che we do that name sounds familiar she had worked for the city up to about six years ago remember her now has come back H that's probably why and she's a forestlake resident yeah she's a she's been a very good asset so far we have one of the positions filled I'm not going to ask how many we're missing unless you want to come out of retirement than all right any other questions for Ken all right Kevin anything no I'm good thank you Tim no Su no sir Don no Jesse nope okay chair has nothing so with that chair's looking for a motion to adjourn so move I have a motion do I have a second second I have a motion in second a non- debatable motion all those in favor signif by saying I I opposed exstension motion carries unanimously thank you all for your time and your service this evening [Music]