All right. Good evening everybody. Let's open the meeting with the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. Good evening. Welcome to the city of St. Paul Park, Minnesota City Council meeting, March 16th, 2026. This is an open meeting and it is being recorded by True Lens Community Media. You can view these city meetings live and replayed on cable channel 799. Meetings are also streamed live and archived on the city of St. Paul Park's YouTube channel. First item on the agenda is approval of the minutes of the March 2nd, 2026 council meeting and wave the reading of the same. >> So moved. >> Second. >> I have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? >> All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. Motion carries. 5-0. >> All right. Item number two, items from the public. Do we have anybody that wishes anything? No. Seeing nothing for items from the public, we will move on to item number three, the consent agenda. Um, first thing on the consent agenda, I would like to make a motion um to pull item C and move that to new business. >> I'll second. >> I have a motion, a second to pull item C and move it to new business. Any further discussion? >> All those in favor say I. >> I. I. >> Motion carries 5-0. All right. On the consent agenda this evening, we're going to pay the bills. Um, we need to approve some 2025 budget adjustments. Uh, resolution 1773 reducing the speed limit to 25 miles an hour on Third Street. Uh, special event permit for heritage days. Uh, car show. Approve well number four underground tank and installation of a new above ground tank. approve an AI pilot program which requires no cost. Authorize participation for cities to participate in the partners in energy program. And it appears that is it for the consent agenda this evening. >> Mr. Mayor. >> Yes. Council member Swenson. >> I move that we approve tonight's consent agenda. >> I second. >> I have a motion and a second to approve the consent agenda as listed. Any further discussion? All right. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. >> Motion carries. 5-0. All right. On the new business before we get into the presentation from Rum River. Let's take up item number C from the consent agenda. Um, I pulled this because this is a uh actually a good thing for the city that I just wanted the council to be able to understand and highlight. Um, item number C is uh approving reallocation of funds from an old project from the Stevens Ridge project. And Hugo, if you could just go ahead and give a brief update on what it is. And maybe um if anybody had any questions, we could ask Dawn if she if anybody had questions for Dawn on um what's going on with that, we could do that. But I think this is kind of a good thing for the city and I wanted everybody to understand the amount of money we have coming back and the availability we will have with it. So Hugo. >> Okay, Mayor Councel, thank you. Um so uh in brief summary um uh this involves a project from a couple three years ago that came in about $1.1 million under budget. And so um uh some of those monies were they came from um enterprise funds, sewer, water, etc. So to um make sure our books are accurate moving forward, um staff would like to redeposit those uh excess monies or monies that we saved because the project came in less than what was anticipated um back to the accounts that they came from. Uh I think the project was around $2 million a smidge over. Don would have the the details and was bid out uh a little over three million. So there's there's the difference in uh savings. So kudos that um staff at the time um did a good job with u making sure things came in uh under budget. Um and uh it's just realigning where the money should go so our books balance and we have a a you know other needs for that money. But that that's the gist of it. >> All right. Council have any questions? I understand that we have some potential areas we could use this money of course but >> correct. Um will we discuss those later on? Maybe. >> Uh mayor and council, there there are some items that staff have identified would be higher priority um or maybe even the highest priority, but those would be coming back to you in a future council action once we had true uh estimation of what cost would be through a a proposal, etc. But there's some pond cleanout that needs to be done um and some other items uh specific to the storm water situation that we haven't addressed in a number of years. All right. Any questions for >> Mr. Mayor? A question for the city administrator if I may. Um, >> of that 1.1 million, how much of it is current dollars and how much of it is future collected assessments? >> Council member Swson, that is an excellent question and I'm going to punch to my able-bodied finance director to elucidate further >> or should I ask it later? It's all current. >> It's all current, but we're also going to be re collecting assessments in the future with regards to that project that balance back up those assessments up until 2038. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. Further discussion or questions? >> All right. Well, then I'll make a motion to move item number C. >> I'll second. >> Have a motion and a second. Any further discussion or questions? All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. Motion carries. 5-0. All right. Good job everybody. >> All right. On to our presentation from Rum River. You guys want to go ahead and get started? >> Okay. Excellent. >> Good evening. Thank you, Mayor and Council. Well, I really appreciate the opportunity this evening. I'm Andy Schrader, the chief building official with Rumb Consultants, and Carrie Levitzky is with me as well, our senior adviser for government relations. It's great to be back with you again. It's been since uh November, actually, where we received council direction and approval of the proposal last. Tonight, we're going to be looking at some of the hard work that our team along with administrator MCI and MCI and uh th that team has been working on as well. to kind of frame it. Uh to start it out with, it would be helpful to see how we got here this evening. Your council packets include a staff report that's very detailed in the background and history. And the interest of time, we're going to highlight a few of the key dates and then we'll jump into how this new ordinance is going to really translate into action. We understand there's a lot of content. First and foremost, we'll be reviewing much of this at a very high level. Um so fe please feel free to pause me or Carrie at any time um if you have any additional questions or clarification. There's no question that is really too basic. If you need clarification, chances are someone else will be looking for that as well. As you can see from the timeline above, we became your designated building official in the beginning of 2023, processing permits and performing inspections on construction projects. And along the way, we've been discussing other services that have been available and that were under development. So, a neighborhood services program is the city's way of caring for the built environment at every stage. And um part of that is administration of the Minnesota State Building Code um for new construction, remodeling um and then of course certain repairs as well. uh structured and consistent um rental licensing program is also part of the neighborhood services program and um also the uh your local property maintenance um code as well and that gives the city of St. Paul Park a clear set of minimum standards for existing properties. So taken together, it reads as a program focused on the overall condition, safety, and long-term stability of neighborhoods. So this framing is strongly supported by the ordinance itself um which we have renamed uh to chapter 18 neighborhood services. The primary function of the Minnesota State Building Code is to set uniform statewide standards for how buildings are constructed, altered, repaired, and maintained. Uh from a code administrative standpoint, issues affecting the structural integrity, fire protection, health, sanitation, and safety are addressed consistently across Minnesota. Inspectors are really another set of eyes that can help educate and inform as to the current safety standards as well as methods of construction. These all fall under Minnesota State Statute 326B that outlines the roles and responsibilities of not only the contractors but also the code officials as both professionals are duly licensed and supported by the Minnesota State uh excuse me, Department of Labor and Industry. The state building code is really made up of a number of different components and as you can see from this slide, they drop in pretty quickly, but there's a lot of layers. There's a lot of uh different sections under this what we call the umbrella of the Minnesota State Building Code. It not only requires the technical knowledge of the built environment, but also requires an understanding of all the other state laws and local ordinances that assist with this administration. Currently, we're on a six-year adoption cycle. In the end of 2026, maybe the beginning of next year, we're going to be due for another round or updated building codes. The question is often asked, do I need a permit? Now, I know this verbiage is really detailed and I don't want to read it for you, but I do highly encourage you to read it on your own because it is very specific as far as the administration of the building code and when a permit is required. Basically, the short answer is I just try to be funny about things is when in doubt, fill it out. There's no charge for filling out a building permit application. And what we want to avoid is well, somebody at the office told me or I heard uh we don't want to deal we want to make sure that things are well documented. So anytime that question comes up of do I need a permit for this or that we do ask them to engage the permit process. Uh that gives us an understanding of the scope of the project and whether a permit is required or not. If it is required we'll walk them through that process. If a permit is not required we document it accordingly and we find that to be very helpful to have a good paper trail especially when you start talking about refinancing insurance needs things of that nature to make sure again that the property records are complete as far as permitting uh in through different projects. Thank you. Now, sometimes people would come up to the front counter. Even though we operate in a digital world where most things are a lot of things are done online, it's not uncommon for us to get phone calls or even people that stop in and ask those very same questions. So, the first thing to do is really to have full a full understanding of what their project would entail. It's not uncommon for permits, whether it be land use, electrical, building, or plumbing to be lumped together. Do I need a permit? Well, what kind of work are you doing? Again, we need to back up and fully We need to ask the right questions in order to fully understand what their project is going to entail to make sure that we can steer them in the right direction. So, part of that is again as Andy had said, identifying what the person is really asking. Many times that that question begins with do I even need a permit? What do I need a permit for? But often the real question is much broader than that. Um is the work allowed? What type of permit applies? Are plans required? What inspections are needed? Um so a large part of our role is helping residents, contractors, property owners, and other applicants understand where their project fits in within that process. The goal is to provide guidance before the work begins. And a strong permit program is not just about issuing permits. It's also about helping people and helping them understand the requirements early on in that process so they can avoid surprises later. And when someone reaches out with permit questions, um we will help explain whether the permit is required, what information needs to be submitted, uh what fees apply, and of course what the next steps will be. And that third bullet point there as far as um we do we also help connect the question to the right process. So not every permit question is strictly a building code question. Sometimes the issue involves you know other site conditions um or another type of approval process such as zoning, engineering, public works, fire. And so one of the benefits of a coordinated neighborhood services approach is that it gives the applicant a clearer path to the right answer instead of leaving them to figure it out on their own. Um again, early communication helps avoid bigger problems later. So when residents and contractors ask questions upfront, it reduces that risk of unpermitted work, project delays when inspections don't meet the code requirements, and additional costs, which of course creates frustration for everybody involved. Permit questions are they're a good thing, and they give us a chance to help um the project plan accordingly and correctly. So, our role at Rum River is to be a good resource, be a resource, not just a regulator. Um, it's a good opportunity to reinforce our program in St. Paul Park's program. Um, and it's also about customer service. And so, we're here to provide direction, explain the process, help applicants understand what is needed so that work can move forward in compliance of the Minnesota State Building Code. One last point on that if I might is uh people's homes and their businesses is their largest financial and emotional investment next to their kids and next to their family and it's really hard to return either. So I like to say that just a little bit sarcastically but it is you know our homes and businesses are our biggest financial and emotional investment. We want to be cognizant of that. So I wanted to break down a little bit between the difference of of a designated and the delegated. So this is in front of us all day every day. So I just wanted to make sure that we put it in terms that everybody can understand is so when a jurisdiction adopts the state building code that then allows them the ability to administer that code, accept fees, plan inspections, complete reports, things of that nature. So every city when they adopt the state building code, they choose one person to be what's called the designated building official. Each city can only have one and that person's in charge of the overall governance, if you will, of the state building code. That's different than the delegated. So now by default anything that's statef funded or statel licensed schools hospitals that by default goes to the Minnesota state department of labor and industry for building code administration if one has the proper training certifications and continuing education they can get that delegation from the state. So Rum River we have the delegation agreement in a number of cities where we do the administration for hospitals and schools which normally defaults right back to the state. So that's what the delegation is. Now, the delegation for building is very similar to the delegation for plumbing. Anything that's new commercial or over five plumbing fixtures by default goes to the state department of labor and industry for their governance and oversight. However, if you have the certification, you go through their testing program, you can get the delegation for plumbing, which is which is awesome. It it's it's fantastic in the sense that the state is very behind. They're uh behind in their plan reviews. They're up to 16 weeks now as far as the plan review for new plumbing projects or uh or again those remodels that involve over five fixtures. We have a a master plumber on staff. We have the plumbing delegation agreement as well in a number of cities and we've reduced that down to a matter of days or weeks where the state has taken a number of months. So that's the big difference between designated and delegated is the sense that each city has to have a designated building official but the delegation is above and beyond that. I know that was way off script, but I cover everything. >> You're good. Yes. And as we talked about with the plumbing, one of the uh major amendments that is part of the article 2 in chapter 18 for the Minnesota State Building Code is aside from bringing the code up to current standards, state statutes, and and all of those necessary components. Um, we also incorporated the language for the plumbing delegation and that again allows um St. Paul Park to receive that delegation, the application and all that information is in your council packet. And so if um if that is or if and when that is approved, we would then go through the process of getting that delegation from the state. Um, this is current as of February 24th and I've um highlighted on there the jurisdictions that we currently have delegation with the state of Minnesota for plumbing um plan review and I believe that we have 17 now. Um, and if we do apply, uh, St. Paul Park would make that 18. And I'll just say again, it's such a great service. the fees are the same that the state um we'd like to align that fee schedule to be the same, but it's a better service because it's a turnaround. It turns around faster. And um you know, we hear a lot in the field um as far as from plumbing contractors of when are you getting the delegation here because the state is so far behind. >> And also remember that allows for local revenue sharing as well. Yes. For the state delegation on building as well as the delegation on plumbing. If the state does it, the state keeps all of those resources and all of those funds. Whereas when we have it as a local understanding, the city also uh shares in that revenue as well. So there's another reason to do that and more local control as well. >> Yeah, that's a great leadin to our next slide here. And so now that we've covered the basics of the Minnesota State Building Code, also known as the MSBC, um let's talk for a second about how it's funded. And um one of the largest concerns that we hear since this regulation is is a state mandate is how is it funded? Well, honestly, it's simpler than you would think. Administration of the Minnesota State Building Code is funded through user fees, meaning the cost of permits, plan review, inspections, and related code administration services is paid by those using the service. So the chapter 42 fee schedule that's also included in your packet this evening um is is is part of of that process. And so this approach is intended to be budget neutral. Um so the cost of development related services is not shifted to the broader tax base. Um in other words improvements um pay for the oversight that is required rather than placing that burden on the general taxpayers. It's budget neutral. So then one of the questions that's also commonly asked when an when ordinances um and ordinance revisions are brought before the governing body is how do these programs get funded? And again um Rum River does not have any involvement in the exchange of money. Um trust us auditors prefer it that way. They want everything filtering and same with your finance director coming through the city and then we bill the city. Um so as this slide shows the applicant um would apply for that permit through baseline which is our um our proprietary software and um our permit technician reviews that online application. the permit's ready once the permit is ready to be issued, they pay for that permit through baseline and um and then um we bill St. Paul Park according to our our agreement and then St. Paul Park retains a percentage of that fee. That's how it's been going the last three years. So there isn't any change. I just wanted to make sure that the current council was aware of how that process works. So, next let's talk a little bit about I'm going to pause if you have any questions related to article um article two before we move on to rental and property maintenance. >> Good to go. Okay. So, I'm going to talk a little bit about rental licensing and property maintenance. And that is part of again the repeal and replace ordinance. It's in your packet and that is article four and five. Um we've been Rum River Consultants has been assisting with St. Paul Parks rental licensing program since January 1st of 2023. Um so this isn't again isn't anything new as far as for us to administer that. We uh the city council did approve back in April for us to do full administration. So that has been approved by the city council and now we are getting through that work in order to get those codes up to um current standards. So why apply the same rental licensing structure to all rental all rental housing? When a jurisdiction regulates rental housing, it is generally better to apply the program consistently across all rental dwellings, whether the property is a single family home or a multif family building. If one type of rental housing is subject to more frequent licensing or inspection requirements than another, then the city can create the appearance that similar rental uses are being treated differently without a clear health, safety, or operational reason. A more uniform structure helps support fairness, consistency, and defensibility in the administration of the rental licensing program. Federal and Minnesota fair housing laws broadly prohibit discrimination in housing. And HUD recognizes that even in if a housing requirement appears neutral, concerns can arise when it treats similar properties differently without an actual clear public purpose. Um this is just a quick snapshot um of some numbers for you. Um at the beginning of this project, we performed a complete analysis on the housing stock um in the city and this slide demonstrates the approximate numbers based on this analysis. Given the number of properties and housing units, we anticipate performing about 190 um initial inspections per year, which translate to approximately three full weeks of inspections. Um and that's throughout each of those cycles. U of course that does not include um reinspections. And I did I did thought I thought that it would be important to note that that first reinspection is included in the cost of their license which the city council did approve back in April as well. Um so that's good. So approximately 1,800 uh residential properties are in the city of St. Paul Park and approximately 232 of those are rental properties. That represents about 21% of your housing stock. And um again splitting that into two two rental cycles. So we anticipate doing about 190 inspections initially per year. So this is a high-level glance at the core changes in the amended rental licensing ordinance. It creates a more uniformed rental licensing structure, clarifies administration and enforcement, requires regular inspections of all rental housing, strengthens the accountability for property maintenance, and improves tools for addressing non-compliance and adds tenant protections. Overall, we've modernized the program and it be it and it better aligns with the city's broader neighborhood um services uh related to health, safety, and stability goals. We're going to get dive in a little bit deeper. I should have done the check marks. Um we'll dive in a little bit deeper here on each one of those um components. So that first one, a more direct alignment with neighbor with a neighborhood services um approach. Overall, the amended ordinance shifts the program away from being only a rental licensing rental license process towards a broader neighborhood focused framework centered on I should have grabbed my reading glasses. Um accountability, consistency, and ongoing property maintenance. The second bullet point, the clear purpose and program intent. The amended ordinance adds a much stronger statement of purpose. It explains that the program is not just about licensing, but about protecting health and safety, preventing substandard conditions, supporting neighborhood stability, preserving property values, and maintaining minimum housing standards throughout the city. The current ordinance treats single family rentals differently from multif family rentals, especially as it relates to the license term and inspection frequency. The amended ordinance applies the licensing requirement more uniformly to all rental dwellings and rental units, which supports consistency, fairness, and effective administration. The amended ordinance more clearly authorizes the city to post a property to prevent occupancy when there is no license when a license has been denied, revoked, or not renewed or when a unit is unfit for occupancy. It also places direct responsibility on the owner to ensure the property is not occupied after posting. Ultimately, the property owner is responsible for what transpires on their property. It is also important to recognize that um rental rental properties are a business. Um it operates similar to a business license and whether that's accidental or intentional. The amended ordinance streamlines the grounds for enforcement and provides a more direct framework for notices, hearings, tenant notifications, uh, waiting periods for applications, and reinstatement fees. Compared to the current ordinance, it's more straightforward and gives the city better defined enforcement tools. The amended language also expands and clarifies definitions so that the ordinance better reflects the different ways that rental housing exists today. It more clearly defines applicants and lenses, property managers, rental units, residential buildings and other key terms uh which helps reduce ambiguity in administration and enforcement. It also adopts the most um recent publication of the international property maintenance code by reference which that is important when the housing inspector is performing the um on-site inspections. The current code does not um identify which international property maintenance code IPMC um the city has adopted. that does become problematic as the international code council authors Minnesota state building code, international property maintenance code, plumbing, all of those and they're on a three-year cycle even though the state adopts the building code every six years. There is a new property maintenance code that comes out every three and so it's important that that is identified in your ordinance because it does change through the code cycles. if I might too, is that is more discretionary as well is the property maintenance code. Some jurisdictions adopt it, some don't. And they have the freedom to choose. And we're going to get into a little bit of that flexibility too with the fire code in just a moment. But the property maintenance code is not a mandated chapter. Correct. Correct. It's an what's called an optional chapter. So, if the city decides to adopt the property maintenance code, they can pick which version they choose to go with. That's why there's some variance in there. Just want to point out. And in the packet, we've identified all of the um amendments to that. So, the height of grass and all of those different um what you call your code official. So, in the international property maintenance code in that first section um there's a lot of um revisions within that ordinance and that's very important because those sections then could ultimately change. So, in the current code, um, in the current that section of the city code of chapter 18, it refers to sections that no longer are there or have been moved. So, it's very important that this gets updated. >> If I can double click on that for just a moment. So, the Minnesota State Building Code is adopted by reference and the uh the amendments are made by at the state level. So, the state has the ability to amend the model code into what they deem necessary. For example, stair rise and run the stair geometry that comes, excuse me, that comes from the international code council, but the state amends that into what they think would be best fitting for the state of Minnesota. When it comes to the property maintenance code, you decide, the city decides what amendments are are more applicable and more fitting for the city. So, that's the difference between a model code that the state adopts and then this optional chapter. >> Yep. Absolutely. And so um getting on to the stronger administrative structure again um it gives that framework by identifying the code officials um role more clearly spelling out who can apply for a license, what information must be provided, when updates need to be reported and when fees are due. It is more structured and easier to follow than the current code language. The amended ordinance expressly allows in inspections in off years where uh when a formal concern is filed, what the process of that looks like, the inspection, the allocation of the inspection fees depending on whether violations are found. And this gives the city a more direct and transparent way to respond to those concerns. One another big operational change in this um amendment is that it does require license rental properties to be inspected every two years prior to issuance or renewal. Um the current ordinance has a little bit different of a structure including less frequent approach for single family rentals. So it does um again add more of that consistency. Um it does also include uh a no retaliation provision which is a meaningful policy um in addition that protects tenants from punitive action for making good faith reports to city or law enforcement or um your contracted services. And again property condition standards um are simplified um you know long list of uh maintenance standards within the rental section itself is what is currently happening. So there's a lot of repetitiveness going on between um zoning code, property maintenance code, and rental. So by um organ reorganizing that so that it's all in one place, it takes that cleaner approach that we feel is necessary. So we've got a couple of situations for um rental licensing. Um and so one of the questions that we hear a lot of is what if my landlord is not responding to my concerns? So we need to start with the nature of their cons of what their concern actually is and get to the bottom of that. What exactly is the issue? We need to understand whether the concern involves a possible health, safety, maintenance or code compliance issue or whether it's primarily a private civil dispute um between the tenant and the landlord. Minnesota Minnesota's attorney general explains that landlords must keep rental property um fit to live in in good repair and in compliance with applicable health and housing codes and also notes that tenants should notify the landlord in writing when repairs are needed. So, going over that tenant concern process and what when we hear these, how do we approach those and what that process looks like is we want we want um we want to know whether the tenant has already communicated with the landlord. That's first and foremost. Um before this before, you know, Rum River, the city would get involved, we do our best to confirm that they've already raised the issue with their with their landlord in writing and allowed a reasonable opportunity um for them to respond. that helps show the concern was first directed to the responsible party and gives the landlord an opportunity to correct the problem voluntarily. Again, the attorney general handbook specifically recommends written notice from the tenant when repair issues arise. Um, we do provide a link to that uh tenant and landlord's u roles and responsibilities um in that rental licensing application process. If the concern does not appear to involve a clear code violation, then our role is limited. In this situation, we would generally direct the tenant to the attorney general's um that document that publication that I would refer to for guidance on those types of remedies. Um not every dispute is something that the city can regulate through a rental licensing program. We always encourage that written communication of the landlord first. we ask for a copy of that. Can you forward us what you had said? So again, we're vetting through that and helping that tenant get to the core of what that issue is. Um we will reach out directly then to the landlord and you know are you aware of this issue? What have you done to mitigate it? And have that conversation because without communication um there you know there seems to be just a big gap as far as what all can transpire. So if there is if there if it appears that there could be an actual code concern, we definitely get out there and we inspect that property. Um if vi violations are found, the owner is responsible. If no violations are found, um the uh complaint proc the complainant um complaint process still has accountability and then we would um that cost for that inspection then does get to that tenant and all of that is provided in writing prior to the inspection um being scheduled outside of the cycle. So problems don't just arise with landlords, right? Um we also here and our and the rental licensing um program is a good resource for property owners. We have gotten a lot of my tenant is destroying my property. What can I do about it? And so again we start by understanding the exact concern and um identifying whether the issue is private lease matter or is it a possible code violation. And again, did you provide that information in writing? If you did, can we get a copy of that? Um, so this is then that outlines that owner concern process. Um, is there evidence of actual damage or conditions that rise to the level of property maintenance, housing or safety violation? Um, we confirm again owner has um communicated clearly in writing. If the information provided suggests that the tenant may be causing property damage or creating conditions that violates the city's code, we will inspect and document any conditions um that do have those violations. And our role again is documenting documenting the conditions. we don't resolve the civil tenency dispute. Um I will say that the record tends to be very helpful if a property owner is going through an eviction process. Um they will take that documentation coming from the city um that states what those violations are and when they go to court um the judge isn't just kicking that down can down the road. they actually have documentation from the code official stating what the violations and what the conditions of the property is. And I'll just I I do need to give a a notation here that it's fair to explain that in Minnesota removing a tenant it is um it can be a lengthy process but we don't this we meaning run river the city we don't evict the tenant for the owner. We don't get involved with that. That's the Minnesota judicial branch's job. Um what again we provide that um correction order and oftentimes it does speed that up. Um just wanted to give a quick highlight as far as the steps of um the next steps for the rental licensing and that would be um if and when that rental license the ordinance is approved. Um upon publication uh Rum River will assemble the final property list. Um we will sort that out by cycle. mailings will go out identifying the new timeline and process and then um we'll go through uh update all of our checklists um forms and then official letters could potentially be sent out then um 1 of June and this is just an example of what um that letter could look like. No different than building as far as how it's how is it funded. budget neutral, no different than um the um build, no different than permits and the peritting um process. They apply for that permit. We review it. License is ready to paid and then of course we um invoice St. Paul Park for um our portion of that and St. Paul Park retains a percentage based on the agreement. >> That was a lot. >> Yeah. >> Thank you for your pay any >> I did two ordinances in one. Two articles in one. And any questions for Carrie? >> Okay, thank you. So, now starting to touch a little bit on the Minnesota State Fire Code. So, Carrie wears a lot of different hats and I do as well some days, but the the main hats that I wear is as the building code official and the fire code official. The building code official, we touched on a little bit already, is the dele de designated and delegated, things of that nature running the department. the Minnesota State Fire Code and the role of the fire code official is something that I'm getting a better and better uh understanding of the need for more uh better connections between the building department and the fire department. That's something that has been remiss if I might in the last number of years at least in the 20ome years I've been in this. uh look at it as a as a handoff of a baton is when something is built or remodeled uh you have a certificate of occupancy and as soon as that certificate of occupancy is is finished that baton gets handed off to the fire department. They're the ones that respond if somebody gets hurt, god forbid there's a fire, something of that nature. But the the the need here is really better administration of the fire code as it comes to fire prevention and and making sure that the environments are safe as they can be and they're prepared for when the fire code official or when the first responders go back out, whether that be police or fire. >> I like to call us the first preventors. >> Thank you for that. So, that's one drum that's been beat lately is that the building inspectors are the first preventtors and the police and fire are the first responders. So, I like that. Thank you, Carrie. Um, it's also a little bit different in the sense that there's more discretion in how it's administered, the Minnesota State Fire Code and the permits that we're going to get into here in just a moment. But all of these are required by state law through the Minnesota State Fire Marshall's office. So, these are things that are simply just not as actively administered or enforced, if you will, uh, than perhaps they could be or should be. Carrie's famous for saying that a lot of times when we come into cities, it's not uncommon for people to work in silos. public works, engineering, land use planning, fire building that we're all concerned and worried about uh with with what's right in front of us. We work in silos. What we're doing now in this part of this initiative is to build bridges between those silos because we really do rely on each other to a great extent. So, in collaboration with the uh St. Paul Park Fire Department and city administration, we're working to establish a comprehensive permit and inspection process. So there's two main permits when it comes to fire code. It's the construction permit and the operational permit. Again, both both of which are identified in the Minnesota State Fire Code. So a construction permit is when you build something, when you install a fire sprinkler or a fire alarm. There's a couple of other examples there. High piled storage, stationary batteries, as well as temporary stages and canopies. That's a construction permit when you actually construct something. And we're familiar, we're accustomed to doing that even here in St. Paul Park. The missing piece is the operational permit. It's the annual inspections or every other year when those inspections are not being done for testing and maintenance of the fire sprinkler system or the fire alarm. Um the ongoing use, mobile food trucks, welding operations, that's another one. So, if you have a uh a business, a manufacturing business, and you have welding operations, there's a building permit there. We'll go through and we'll check all of those boxes. Does it need a a fire sprinkler system? Does it need a fire alarm? And then largely the building official is done. But that baton needs to be handed off to the fire uh department and the fire code official in what's called an operational permit. Now those permits can be issued over a set period of time, whether it be every year or every other year. That's where we work in collaboration to better understand the potential hazard of that business. What are those inspection needs? And that's really where we're going to get down into the into the nitty-gritty here to use a technical term as far as understanding the city a little bit better through your fire chief >> outline. It's hard to see. It's a little >> Oh, it is. Yeah, we should. So, >> right up here. >> Thank you. So, extracting the potential properties, that's the first thing that we do. Carrie and the the folks from Baseline, they extracted data from the county's website as far as the non-residential properties. Now, what we need to do is comb through those to see which ones fall within the parameters of requiring a fire operational permit. And there are 50 there are 50 different instances that would be applicable if a business needed a an operational permit. So, what we're going to do now is go through there and extract those businesses out about which uh businesses would receive this letter. And that letter is also a copy of that here basically introducing the program, introducing myself and that we're working collaboratively with the city and asking for a meeting quite frankly. So at that point we'll work with the fire chief and we'll arrange a time that we can go out to the business to understand their business a little bit better. We can walk around the inside, the outside to see again if their operation does fall within the parameters that requires an operational permit. At that time when that the determination is made uh that's when we will document that they don't need an operational permit or we'll help them along with that process which they will get an operational permit and then that actually uh doves dovetales back into the baseline program so that everything is available everything is online so it's that same um that same database if you will now part of this process uh is is going to be establishing two pieces of information here the one on the left is a melt cross. That's called a BIS or building information sign. That's something that the firefighters and the administration will have access to. This will be built through this program. So, this is actually one for I think it's 300 Pullman. It's a an apartment building. So, on the top there 5B, that's the type of construction and through the nomenclature of the building code and fire code, we know what that means. That means combustible construction and it's not protected with fire resistive elements. That's 5B. on the right side there is it is it sprinklered or not sprinklered in this case that building does not have a fire sprinkler system so it says NS on the bottom there that's an R2 that means it's an apartment building to the left LH that means it's a low hazard but then in the middle there uh is for tactical considerations if there's anything special that the fire department needs and wants to know for example on-site welding or in an NOA we have some cryogenic fluids uh being utilized at uh invent and right next to federal mineral which makes gunpowder. That's a really important thing to have separated as far as those uses. So in the center there again are tactical considerations that the first responders are going to want to know what's on the other side of that door when when they respond to an emergency. On the right, what that is is a simple overview. Uh it's a site plan um or a pre-plan if you will. And what we're trying to do there is identify the high five in the first five. In the first five minutes of arriving on scene, what are the first responders really looking for? the key box, how do you get into that? That's a whole another conversation that we'll we'll get into as well. But the key box, how do you get in? There's a master key box. Uh where are the nearest fire hydrants? Where are the utilities located? Where's the shut off for the gas and the electrical? Um as well as where are the fire lanes if those are established. So, this is going to be part of this program as well in baseline so the first responders can see on route or doing any pre-plan so that they can have one of these for each property identified. Any questions on this piece? This in my estimation is probably the biggest gap out there. I always look for gaps and overlaps. This is a big gap. Uh we're also working on the same program in Robbinsdale and AIO and we've having the same experience there is that these are things that are just people just haven't filled in those gaps yet. >> How's paid for? >> Thank you. Revenue neutral again. So this program is paid for by the user. Uh so it's the businesses themselves through an operational permit. And now again, we will work uh closely with the fire department to determine if it's a relatively low hazard and they have their portable fire extinguishers and everything's in line, we can stretch that reinspection out to two years or whatever we deem appropriate, if you will, for that particular property. If, however, there's a number of of items that need to be addressed, we might decide to come out there every year until those issues are addressed and they're they're back where they need to be. That was a lot. I almost feel like I should apologize, but that is a lot of information. I really want to take the time to to pause and see if there's any questions or thoughts or input on anything that we've said. >> Um, I have a question. These operational permits for the fire code update, are these places that are currently permitted, not permitted at all? Um, is it something that would be completely new? Is it businesses and rentals? Are we once again sticking our fingers into our small business pockets? >> It is a new program. Uh it is uh it is required. Here's the iron well not ironic part. It it is required by state law. Construction permits and operational permits are required by state law. That doesn't mean that they're effectively administered. It just means that's one thing that we haven't connected with yet. There are cities that administer construction and operational permits. There are cities that don't. Um, mayor council, I just wanted to to share a couple of a couple of staff uh thoughts as this program was was coming together. Um, so staff have been part of the committee since September to plan and help create what what this looks like specific to St. Paul Park, not just another cut and paste cookie cutter type of type of operation. Um uh we we dubbed it neighborhood services because we want to um be collaborative and partnering with with the community more of an educational component. Uh we thought code enforcement was a little bit heavy-handed, although there is certainly an element of of code enforcement to that, but really the driving focus was partnering with the community in collaboration and working together to create safe rental spaces, safe businesses, um uh re resources for landlords and tenants, etc. Um uh really ultimately our our goal was what can we do to improve the quality of life for the residents in town and coming up with a program like this or updating the program like this. We felt it was very important that that we do that as kind of a driving force and I think by and large I think I think we've arrived at that. Um uh just a couple of notes the city attorney is reviewing the volume of information that that you see. Um it it is consistent with um uh other communities that our city attorney also represents. So I'm not anticipating any surprises, but we have not had the official everything is is good to go. Um so we we do have time to review and ask questions. And um I did get a copy of the uh presentation uh earlier today. I will send that uh to council for review. Um it would be um pretty much what you saw here. So if you had any questions for additional followup, but um that's kind of the backstory on this. And uh I I believe this is an extension of the direction that council gave staff uh and my predecessor before I got here. Um and this is kind of the culmination of how things are looking and so I think we're uh in alignment with that. I think we're consistent, although very flexible to modify uh as council may so uh so choose or desire. So I just want to share that. >> Thank you, Hugo. questions. >> Council member Conrad, >> I have a question as far as inspections. Do inspections happen to um properties that are identified now or is it as there's renewals or situations that arise? I mean, I don't know how current anything is in town. So, where do you start? Where do you create? >> Which type of inspections are you referring to? Building permits are reactive in nature. So when somebody builds or remodels or has an addition, there is a building permit process involved with that. Rental is on a cycle as Carrie identified. Now the fire construction permits are much like building in that if somebody's going to remodel a space or add on to a building and there's a fire uh resistive element to it, fire, excuse me, fire sprinkler or fire alarm, that's the construction permit. The piece that's missing is the ongoing operational permit of that of that business >> which is more cyclical similar to um >> rental >> rental. >> Thank you for that. So a fire operational permit acts very much like a rental where it's an ongoing for a period of time that it you know whereas a construction permit is when you build it, you inspect it, you you uh write the final inspection record or certificate of occupancy, you're largely done. whereas the operational permit much like rental is an ongoing operating if you will of that of that property. >> I guess what I'm what I'm wondering um in a in a larger scope to reflect on is uh it's ironic that you had those apartment buildings there on Pullman and third but is that something that each building would be inspected to see how where they stand currently or or do you wait for an incident or Pioneer Village where is largely full of seniors. um any of those types of >> Thank you for that big structures. >> So, this would be proactive in the sense that we're going out and what we find in a lot of these instances are portable fire extinguishers that are missing or not recharged that that are discharged. Um exits, combustible construction. Um so, this is in a sense being more re more proactive than reactive to go out to make sure that the buildings again are safe so that the first responders and the and the residents, the occupants are protected in that manner. Great question. >> You have a question? >> Yeah, I have a quick question. I I heard the term budget neutral a couple of times and I really appreciate that. Uh the question is though on that when it comes to the fee structure, is that set by your organization or is that set in concert with city staff and then approved by resolution by the council? >> Great, great question. um as a governing body, the city council, you are the authority that sets the fee schedule. So that's part of um that is ordinance um 786 chapter 42 fees um by retooling the fees, reorganizing them in a way that makes sense. Um that's part of that chapter 42. Ultimately, you are the governing body that sets those fees. our agreement um between us and St. Paul Park has it so that it's a revenue sharing as far as so if if a roofing permit is $125 um and we receive a certain percentage of that and then St. Paul Parks keeps a certain percentage of that. So it's I I want to be very careful with the term revenue generating because that's not the purpose of it. It's that again that development pays for itself. the improvements, the cost of the service that's required by the state state law is um pays for itself. >> And much like just that example, the fire is the same way. There will be some roles and responsibilities for city staff as well as our staff as far as generating that list, doing the inspections, going back on the reinspections. Yes. So that's a shared responsibility as well. >> Okay. There's a good question on that too because it's the basic fee structure is required to to produce for Rum River their portion. Is there constraints upon Rum River outside of the contracts for the pricing for those fees? >> Can you ask that again a different way? >> I guess I didn't understand the question. >> Yeah, I I think I I think I understand council member and um so again there's not constraints by state law. Um there are certain portions of uh section 42 that's before you um that models again after that's the state similar to the plumbing plan review plumbing inspections for non-residential and that again is we um we want to stay in line with what other jurisdictions and the state do. We don't want to be up here and we don't want to be down here. We the way we do our fees is what is the lowest that the fee can be for doing for providing the service that's required and that's how we set our fees. They're very this fee model um it it's in I think almost all of our jurisdictions the model is and most of the fees um are aligned a lot of them it it's not this if you were to look at other jurisdictions surrounding you're going to see very similar fees >> okay >> would be my guess >> okay thank you that did explain but I'm just again just to verify though it it is constrained by contract >> no it is So pricing can change within the contract. >> Yeah, we do have in the agreement minimum. So for instance, if um I don't have it in front of me, let's hypothetical. If our minimum is $50 for something or $100 for something or $500, whatever that is, >> if you set your fees below, so essentially the percentage sharing um that's approved in the agreement, right? you can set your fees lower than that, but then then it would end up going into the general budget to make up that gap, >> right? >> Or we can again there's so there's there's many different ways we can talk about that. There's the different percentage sharing and things of that nature as well, but we do we aim to keep our fees as low as possible. Okay. All right. Thank you. >> I think I got one of my questions answered there. um >> our recommended fees. Excuse me, I needed to >> follow that up. But I do have one more question and then if anybody else has any otherwise we'll move on. Um the refinery when we talk fire code this operational and inspections that's kind of a whole another monster, isn't it? >> It is. Do you want to speak to that, Chief? >> Yeah. Are we is this something new we're going to be getting into with them where we're going in? I mean, you were talking welding. You were I mean, there's that's going on constantly. Are we going to be talking multiple permits? Are we going to have to have a whole new conversation with our partners at Marathon? >> Right. Okay. >> Yeah. And I'm not as familiar with that organization as you are. This is targeted for the businesses outside of that uh for the uh the operations again the the manufacturing the apartments the assemblies you know where you have a large concentration of people and you have a higher hazard that would be more identified accordingly. uh again assemblies uh churches, bars and restaurants and things of that nature as well as apartment buildings and and manufacturing. Those are the big So again there are 50 50 of those types of operations that would be uh uh that would fall under that uh category of an operational permit but in St. Paul Park not all 50 would apply. Of course uh some of those like cryogenic fluids and things of that nature are such a specialty you know we uh have the benefit of experiencing that in an NOA. Uh but outside of that, I'm not familiar with too many organizations or manufacturing that use such type that type of of of uh processes if you will. >> Okay. Then I have another question. >> Sure. >> You said apply >> where somebody would apply. You just used the word apply as far as enforcing fire code. We're not necessarily Are you talking about a new application or the current businesses? >> So it would be a new application. So, say I we come out to a manufacturing facility and they're they're on-site welding. They have um acetylene, they have uh bottled uh oxygen tanks and things of that nature that would fall under the confines or under the parameters of requiring an operational permit. What we would do is we would identify that property in the spreadsheet. We would generate a letter for them and it's customized. It's not dear property owner, anything like that. We want to find out who we're sending this communication to. So that letter is customized to that owner and it's mailed out to them and then they're going to be requested. You can see from that model that they would contact us. I think our our target is like two weeks. Please get back to us within two weeks so we can uh arrange a meeting at your property. We'll coordinate schedules. We'll go out there to meet with that property owner or their designate to walk the inside and the outside. And then we'll be able to identify does their operation actually meet one of those 50 criteria or does it not? If it doesn't, then we'll be able to I write them off or to just say you your business does not require this process. Thank you very much for your time. If it does, then we'll be able to categorize them with that information sign as well. We'll be able to go through and determine the type of construction. Is it sprinklered? Uh the occupancy classification are there special considerations again uh with compressed gases and oxygen cylinders and things of that nature. So that melty's cross would be filled out during this process. So at that time they would be asked informed that they would need to apply for an operational permit much like a rental license. So they would apply through baseline. They would apply for that operational permit and then we would again build the uh build the uh melt cross the building information sign as well as the on-site um site plan for pre-planned and we would get them into the cycle. if there's any corrections that needed to be made, we would be able to identify those. And depending on the severity, we would identify how long they have to make those corrections. Uh, and sometimes if it's a more immediate need, we might be more a little bit more proactive. Come back in a matter of a couple of weeks. If there's a lot of combustible storage under a fuel canopy or something like that, that we would want to be a little bit more proactive on. >> All right. >> The goal is to work with >> absolutely >> the public, right? working with them, not being going back to that um we're we want to be a um a resource, not a regulator. >> And on that sense, too, is that we find this uh with a program like this as well as property owners, too. We want to take the time to explain the why behind the what. I get that from Simon Senic, if you've ever read or listened to Simon at all, he's really big about that is because we want to let people know not only what the regulations are, but why they are there. Why does a handrail have to be returned? Why does your acetylene tanks need to be supported in the corner? Why do you need exit signs with the emergency lamps? Um, there's a lot of reasoning behind this and obviously we're we're dedicated to this, but I like to take the time to explain the why, >> right? No, I'm just, you know, I'm a small business owner and everybody knows that. >> Mhm. >> Um, but >> as am I. the um just seems like the mandates and overreach sometimes and the double dipping because I know a lot of us already get inspected several times by our insurance companies by our other inspectors by you know what I mean and now >> I I do and if I can speak to that I'm a small business owner too and we recently purchased a property in St. Francis so now we have a commercial building the fire inspector comes through and he pushes the button to make sure the lamps work. He looks at our at our portable fire extinguishers. And once that is done, once you have that established, it's a lot easier to maintain going forward because like me, even me as a building official, I'm worried about or I'm working on my business, not necessarily paying attention to the building. So to have that other set of eyes is really valuable, >> right? >> No, I'm just getting ready for the questions. >> Oh, absolutely. And if you have any questions on that regard, please feel free to send them my way as well. >> All right. Any further questions for Andy or Carrie? >> Briefly, uh, mayor, councel, I just want to clarify or reiterate that our fire staff have a large role should they be so inclined to participate in aspects of the fire inspection code. >> Absolutely. We're going to rely on a mutual relationship as well as >> correct >> building that bridge. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, mayor and councel. >> Thank you guys. >> Wonderful evening. Thanks for coming and all the great information. >> Mhm. >> All right. Um, at this time I'm going to make a motion to take ordinance 784, resolution 1768, 1772, ordinance 785, resolution 1770, ordinance 786, and resolution 1771 as a slate and table them. Okay. Second. >> All right, I have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Motion carries 5-0. >> All right. Item number five, reports from the council. Council member Hagerty, public works commission. >> Yes. So, we had our uh public works uh commission meeting on uh March 3rd. Uh we did not have a quorum, so we weren't able to make any major decisions, but we did have discussions. uh a lot of which was already in the city council uh meetings. So, we're good there. Uh our next meeting is on June 2nd. Uh so, we need two more members, at least one more member, but we'd like to get two more members uh for public works. So, please come down and apply. Thank you. >> Thank you, Council Member Hegy. Council member Swinson, public safety. >> Thank you, Mayor. Our meeting was uh Thursday, March 5th and uh during the meeting they accepted uh the the applications of two new uh chair member or excuse me uh council or commission members. I'll get to it. Um and also welcomed the new chief of police uh who gave a nice presentation of uh his history and uh what he was looking for for the for the department and also uh Chief Kramer was uh gave a nice presentation also. Our next meeting is set for June 4th at I believe it's 6 o'lock on Thursday >> here at city hall. >> Here at city hall. Thank you all. >> All right. Thank you, Council Member Swinson. Council member Conrad, planning. >> Our next meeting is scheduled for April 13th at 7 p.m. I um I won't be able to attend. I will be out of town. >> All right. Well, enjoy. Thank you, Council Member Conrad. Council member Whit Hamson, parks and wreck. >> Um our meeting is this Thursday here at city hall at six o'clock. Um, we are still looking for crafters for May 9th for our garden event and the all the crafters get a free table and we'll have bouncy house and kids crafts. So, hope everybody can come. >> Thank you, Council Member Whit Hemson. Um, tonight I would just like to add and ask the people out in TV land that are watching this and anybody paying attention, um, we do have our annual volunteer appreciation dinner coming up and which we're going to try to transform into appreciating our employees. Also, um, we do have something on the website, I believe. Yes, Hugo, about applications to submit for potential volunteers of the year. >> Mayor, that is correct. And I believe something was posted to the Facebook. So if you know anybody that's doing good in the community and you want to nominate them for volunteer of the year, um please get that into us as soon as possible so they can be considered and maybe even get a nice free meal out of it. Um and that's all I have this evening. Anybody have anything else? Council members, >> I would like to say thank you to public works, Tony, Tony, Brian, and company. You guys really cleaned up the town. Really looks great. people could get no worries. I I travel to different cities and you guys did a good job. Thank you. >> Yep. The last snow event I I will add to that. I had people who came from out of town that I ran into on Broadway yesterday and they said we just came through several cities and I will say your city was one of the easiest and the best looking roads we hit. So good job. All right. Nothing further before this console. This meeting is adjourned.