12:34. Thank you for hooking up the microphones. Um, I'm dying to see who we have online cuz it's kind of light here in the room. Can, [clears throat] yay. All right, we're going to hold off on um on minutes and agenda approval again this month because I guess it's nice outside and people don't want to be here, they'd rather be at the beach. Um, all right, to get us started off, I will have our vice chair read the acknowledgement. >> Okay, the Metropolitan Council acknowledges that the land we currently call Minnesota and specifically the seven-county region is the the ancestral homeland of the of the Dakota Oyate who are present and active contributors to our thriving region. As part of the Metropolitan Council's commitment to address the unresolved legacy of genocide, dispossession, and settler colonialism and the fact that government institutions, including the Metropolitan Council, benefited economically, politically, and institutionally after the forcible removal of the Dakota Oyate, the Metropolitan Council is dedicated to instilling land, water, and people commitments in regional policy. These commitments support the Dakota Oyate, the 11 federally recognized tribes in Minnesota, Ho-Chunk Nation, and the American Indian communities representing over 150 diverse tribal nations that call the seven-county metro region home. >> Thank you very much. All right, now let's do roll call. You want to start us off, Claudia? >> Claudia Feuly, MNCCD. >> Chris Likely, AARP. >> Stephanie Ceda, Patsy's sign language worker. >> Patsy Murphy, Precinct C. >> Tully Slaney, Metro Mobility. >> David Fenley, chair. >> Patty Thorsen, vice chair and representing Trellis. >> Kevin Petrie, recording secretary. >> Scottie Carter, representing the Office of Civil Rights and Small business programs. >> Ken, you want to go ahead and then Daryl? >> Here, Ken Rogers, District D. >> [snorts] >> Now now is your chance, Daryl. Hello. >> [clears throat] >> Daryl Fulton, uh District S, I believe. >> Thank you very much everybody for joining. Um we have a rather light agenda today. Like I said, we will not approve um the minutes or the agenda this month because lack of quorum unless two people show up. Um but let's move right into better bus routes. Michaela and Michael. Welcome. Feel free to introduce yourselves and just dive right in. >> Yeah, we'll do. >> I know we've had y'all here a few times before. Maybe not you specifically, but better bus routes. >> that's right. [clears throat] And we can we can talk about that. Um so just to introduce myself, my name is Mike Mecklenburg. I'm a program manager at Metro Transit working in our service development department. >> And I'm Michaela Ahearn. I'm a senior service analyst also working in the service development department. >> Uh so David, you're right. We actually or I was here in 2001 to present uh at that time of a sort of a new program that we had initiated just a few years prior called better bus routes. Uh the project I was working on at the time was route three. Um so fast forward five years and uh here is our five-year update. Um so we have a few slides to go through. Uh part of it is just the the program purpose and background, some of the key changes that we make throughout all projects. And then Michaela and I will uh go over some specific changes of this year's projects, Route 14 and Route 74. Um, oh yeah, thanks Michaela. So, Better Bus Routes going to get this slide to advance. >> Maybe, yeah, there we go. >> Here we are. So, it was initiated in 2018 with a goal of improving the speed and reliability of local bus service. So, the context at that time is we had just started our first arterial BRT route, the A Line, and there was a few other A BRT routes sort of in the pipeline, but then I'm thinking there are all of these other local bus routes that that have riders that also want to see improvements. We can't do BRT improvements on every route, so um this program was I think largely that um initiated to address the needs of riders on on routes that still have a lot of bus riders. Um the goal here is to take some of the ideas that BRT does and right-size them for this smaller program. So, and we'll talk about some of those things, but the idea is we're making uh quicker, low-cost changes that can still have a meaningful improvement on the rider experience. Uh so, we started off with Route 2, that was in 2018. That was really kind of a pilot project just to just to test the waters. Uh that was followed by Route 63, and then Route 3 in 2021. We've done a lot of routes since then, so I'm not going to go through the list, but uh we had been doing a route every year. Um more recently we we're doing two routes every year, and that's the plan uh moving forward. So, what started off as uh you know, kind of a pilot, an experiment, uh I think evolved pretty quickly into a program. and part of being a program is that you have to have a plan and you need to communicate that out uh to both public and your other key stakeholders. So, a few years ago we went through a process of identifying future better bus route projects. Um this allows us to communicate that to our city partners so that we can be in alignment with their staffing needs or other changes that may be happening on uh corridors that they operate and then better internal coordination just to make sure that we have the right staff kind of lined up to help at the right times. Uh I won't go through the entire selection process um but we took uh kind of a broad brush. Uh we looked at really all of Metro Transit bus routes and then started taking away a few that didn't quite fit within the goals of the program. So, uh we removed routes that we don't operate so those operated by suburban providers. Uh obviously existing BRT routes uh we're not going to be making additional changes on those. And then express routes again don't really fit the the goals of this uh program. So, we uh that list uh was round down to 61 routes. And we applied these three principles um consistent and competitive travel times, legibility and accessibility of our service and promoting equity of transit service. And you can see uh the 10 uh concepts and there were different metrics. Um so, this is a process that we first did in 2022, updated in 2024. And the result is um so, these are the both current and and upcoming projects. So, this was the outcome of that. Uh not shown on here were routes 7 and 61 which we completed last year. Those were the first two coming out of that last round of evaluation. McKay and I are currently working on the 14 and 74. Next year it'll be the routes 11 and 32. And then in the future we've got four more lined up. We don't know the exact year of implementation on those, but suffice it to say the goal is to kind of get these identified early so that we can have the right staffing and planning in place. Um, you know, each project is different and and part of the goal of this program is to really do a deep dive on that specific route cuz again not all routes are the same. Some serve different populations or different route alignments, different constituencies. That said, there are a few things that are consistent across all projects. Um, and so probably the most recognized is stop consolidation. Um, so with this program we are um moving towards a stop spacing of about a quarter mile. So the graphic on the right shows your typical local bus route. Let's say that's a mile segment there. And it it historically has stopped every block so every eighth of a mile. The BRT routes shown on the bottom, I would say typically, this isn't always true, but stop about every half mile. Um, so that's a pretty big delta between eighth of a mile and half mile. What Better Bus Routes is trying to do is split the difference there. So we're trying to widen stop spacing, but still retain really good accessibility to those local riders. So some of the things that we look at um the existing stop spacing, ridership, is it a key transfer point or like how are people using that stop? And then we review we review stop locations really early in the process. So that's as I start a project, that's probably one of the first things that we do with the project team, usually the city and county and internal staff to to look at proposed stop changes. That's important because that's an input into where we will or won't make ADA improvements in the next phase of the project. So, next slide. So, as I think you heard at your last meeting with better bus stops, these programs really kind of share some similar goals. So, through better bus routes, we're providing them locations on where accessibility is falling short. So, this is our second key improvement for better bus routes is we want to see every stop accessible, right? That's that's meeting the the minimum of of what we need to do as an agency to to meet our guidelines. So, the picture here is showing an example of what's called an ADA pad. Again, maybe you saw examples of this at at last month's meeting. It's a usually around a 5 by 8 concrete pad just to make sure that people can can get on and off the bus easy, especially if they're using like a wheeled or mobility device. As part of the stop accessibility, we'll also do a a review [snorts] of shelter locations. So, unlike BRT, we don't commit to having a shelter at every stop. There are too many stops to do that, but we do make a concerted effort to look at locations that are maybe on the bubble of where a shelter could be. And as we're consolidating stops, that means more riders are boarding at the remaining stops, and so that alone can sometimes tip it from being a little bit below the the desired guidelines to above the desired guidelines. So, for each project, we typically to I don't know, maybe somewhere between six and eight uh shelters. >> Are you all good with questions, Mr. Chair? Oh, sorry. >> [clears throat] >> It's all good. >> Yeah, Mr. Chair? >> Yeah. >> Uh so, this is it's interesting for me because the role of my office plays into making sure we're compliant in ADA, including where our bus stops. And so, the conversations have been we've gotten a lot of complaints about bus stops being ADA uh compliant, namely if it's a stop, does it have um if it's a shelter or not shelter, okay, but if it has a bench, you know, these different things. So, what are some of the criteria when you decide, okay, this is a stop that's won't have a shelter, but will it still have other amenities that make sure that this bus stop is ADA compliant? >> Okay. >> Sure, Mr. Chair and committee members. Um Yeah, so I got I got there's sort of a sliding scale. So, to be ADA compliant, there are pretty clear um criteria for that. So, you need to have a 5 by 8-ft landing pad. It needs to be a smooth hard surface like concrete or pavers. And then it needs to meet a certain minimum slope requirements, right? So, that's like the legal definition of accessibility. In terms of additional I think maybe you would call them amenities, we can control some of those, but not all. Ad benches are actually um done by a third-party provider. So, it's like an ad company that works with the cities, and they identify locations that they think might be get a lot of visibility. So, it's not really about necessarily where it does or doesn't benefit transit riders. That is a that is a benefit, but it's it's more about advertising for them and those advertising dollars. So, we can work with them on moving ad benches or placing them where we would like to see them. Often times ad benches actually kind of in the way of stop accessibility. So, there are kind of limited places where you can put an ad bench. Like it doesn't always belong in the the grassy boulevard. Um and so it's really trying to find that right balance. We we would like to see benches, but we also want to make sure that they're positioned in a way that doesn't um prevent that stop from being accessible. >> Yeah, I I appreciate the clarification because I think like I said, get a lot of customer complaints where there was a bench there that was removed and the conversation becomes like, all right, well, then do I now have to go to another bus stop that's half a mile down the way and so now if I'm someone who relied on this bench and you know, all our our spaces be accessible, legal definition, yes, but the idea of every stop is accessible. >> Yeah. >> The kind of conversation that comes along with it. So, that's why I wanted to kind of know where in the sliding scale do you all pardon or even with the ad bench or in the shelters, and I you can correct me if I'm wrong, in the shelters they do have some level of of of a bench or something in in them as well. So. >> That's right. Mr. Chair and committee members, um most shelters do have benches. I don't think that's universal, but almost all that I've that I've seen do. Um I mean in terms of additional seating, we I would say that is not within the scope of better bus routes. Maybe maybe it could or should be for future projects. Um certainly if you're hearing or seeing >> Yeah. >> feedback from riders that there was a bench and it's no longer, you should let us know cuz we do work with US Bench on moving things. And in fact, if anything, there are a lot of kind of stray benches around where there used to be bus stops. Um and so if that's possible to better position those so that they can benefit transit riders, I think that would be a win-win. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Uh yes, uh next slide. Oh, I'm going to pass it off. Oh. >> Sorry, Ken Rogers had a question. >> Yes, go ahead, Ken. >> Um so sort of piggybacking off the topic of ADA compliance here. Um I just had a meeting earlier today with the Olmsted agency team talking about improvements to ADA accessibility on our bus stops. And we have identified a specific number of ADA pads that will be um on target to be implemented each year for the next 5 years. Um the question came up today about we can spend the dollars to have ADA compliant pads at bus stops. But if there is no accessible path to get to an ADA compliant bus stop, that bus stop doesn't do any good to be ADA compliant. If there's no sidewalk that a rolling device can get to to get to that bus stop, um to me, without those being in tandem, it's a waste of taxpayer dollars to have an ADA compliant bus stop if those that need that can't access it. So, what what are you considering in terms of working with local municipalities to ensure that we have continuity of being able to get from uh a place in the community to an ADA compliant bus stop? >> And understanding this is not technically in the scope of what y'all are working on, but as a system-wide thing, you know, it does it is nice to be able to to get to the the better bus routes through accessible routes to bus stops that are also accessible. That actually made sense. >> Yeah, and Mr. Chair, maybe I can just respond briefly. You're right, that is that's more of a better bus stops question. So again, that was the group within our facilities team that presented at your last meeting. What I can say is for better bus routes, we are typically making improvements and the core cities or in first ring suburbs. So and where sidewalk access is generally pretty good. So that is something that a situation that we don't encounter as often. There have been exceptions. So route 22 up in Richfield, it winds its way on some of those local streets. And there there were no sidewalks. Our solution there is maybe imperfect, but we put a pad in and then a curb ramp. And often what you'll see in suburbs is sidewalks only on one side of the street. And so in those cases, we would put a curb ramp in that directs people to the closest sidewalk or whatever direction that that might be. So again, maybe it's imperfect, but I think it's doing what we can as a transit agency and and sort of putting some limited infrastructure in place so that if and when the city does come through and add sidewalks, it will kind of fit within that plan. >> Thank you. And I'm going to pass it off to Mikaela. >> Yes, thank you, Mike. So another key improvement, so in addition to looking at the actual bus stop pad, is we look at the bus what we call the bus stop zone. So, on the screen we have an image from our bus stop design guide, which our facilities team put together, and it's more guidance for cities and counties. So, essentially, we don't want a bus stop where there's parking in it. We don't want a bus stop where there is parking too close to the transit sign where the bus is going to stop because if a bus is traveling down the street and needs to pull over to the curb, we would like that bus to be parallel with the curb. And if it's too short of a distance from when it has to start its turn to make it to the stop, that doesn't work. Then you end up with the bus where the rear end is sticking out in traffic, and that's not desirable. So, we work with cities and counties, um we look at each stop, and we create the slide deck where we say, "At this particular stop, at this location, could you um push, you know, and have some more no parking zone for an additional 10 ft or 20 ft?" Um and so, it and we work with sometimes the city partners um feel that the zone is adequate or, you know, or there's another solution that can be had, but we have the guidelines, and so we try to have each stop adhere to these guidelines. >> Next slide? >> Yeah, next slide. And then, I think this is our So, then the last improvement that we look at with all of these route projects is simplification. So, you've probably seen some uh routes or know of routes where there are multiple branches that um perhaps it's just not easy to understand, where does this bus go? And we would like customers and riders to be able to look at um a public schedule or to call customer relations and be able to understand, "Okay, I understand this bus is going to go along this road, and um it it intersect with this route at this street, so we're slowly we're trying to clean up some of our routes that had a lot of branches and make a lot of turns because we find that when buses have to turn frequently, especially in the downtown areas, that slows everything down. And it's is one thing for the bus to be slow, but especially in areas with high traffic, some days the bus could be really late and some days it could be not late. And so we're trying to reduce the variability because if the bus can stay on time more consistently, riders can make their connections, transfers to other routes, things like that. Um yeah, next slide. And so we do our pre-work. We look at the route, we look at the stops, um work with internal teams. Another aspect of the Better Bus Route program is outreach and engagement. And so we um there's always a web page with information about the project. It will include maps and um detailed information about what is changing, when it's expected to happen. Uh we work with our marketing team to put out um there's always an online survey in multiple forms. People can request paper forms if that's easier for them. Um we have emails if you've signed up, say registered your Go Card, or I think you can sign up for rider alerts for specific route. So we'll send notification through those methods. Um we also do in-person engagement at bus stops and on the bus, just asking folks if they have heard about this project or letting them know that changes might be coming. We put um the information is always multilingual, so usually in Spanish, Somali, and English. Um at stops that will be eliminated, we put up rider alerts, and that uh includes a QR code to the website along with the um phone number to customer relations, so they can get more information. Um Um, we've even uh last year with the Route 7, there were some routing changes where the bus was traveling from one street and it switched to another one. So, we put out a postcard to all residents within a quarter mile of the new routing just to try to get the information out as much as possible. We also share with neighborhoods. >> I have a question for you. So, when you send out the postcards for that the example, is is it in different languages too as well or is that just in was that just one in in >> I think just due to space limitations it was just one, but I think um, you know, we had the QR code on the postcard. So, um That's a good question. I think it was due to space limitations it was just one. But, that's something we could look at in the future. >> I just think about it like the reason I thought of it is because of the successful point like who needs to know this is changing, we're we're putting it out, and we need to, you know, you know, how to do compliance in this way, but and more just a practical matter like, okay, we're letting people know who are the neighbors, who are the spaces, and also, you know, if I'm if I'm blind, you know, am I, you know, am I going to use a QR code, you know? So, it's like what are we doing, we're engaging our services. Thank you. >> Yeah, thank you. All right, next slide. So, when we get the outreach feedback, typically what we change, and this these are examples from this year's projects, um, we people will say this particular stop is very important to me for these reasons. So, we will retain stops when um, when it makes sense. Uh, we also for the Route 14 project, we had proposed shifting the downtown routing in Minneapolis for southbound trips. Um, and we heard a lot about the ability to transfer at a sheltered location to the Route 94, which people can do today at Fifth Street Transit Center. So, based on um, the Gold Line extension project, which will take over the Route 94, we're going to just delay that portion of the change. So, we we don't want to give people the outreach and then do nothing with it. So, we try to be responsive. Um sometimes we can't respond to every request for a stop retention, but um we definitely look at all of the comments. Go to the next slide. So, I wanted to share some results from a project from last year, the route seven. This image on the screen is shows uh downtown Minneapolis. So, there are red lines that show where the old routing went along 3rd and 4th streets and then Hennepin Avenue and 1st Street North. So, there were a lot of turns and this route stood out because there was a lot of delay. The bus, especially in the PM peak, in the rush hour, the bus was just sitting at stop lights for a long time and um could be very delayed getting out of downtown. So, the new routing, it stays on Washington Avenue essentially from Chicago Avenue all the way up to Plymouth Avenue where it continued its old routing. So, it's a straight line. Um there's good signal, you know, permissions so that the bus is keeps moving cuz traffic moves pretty well on Washington Avenue. Um and so, that was the routing change we made and then we went back and looked at, well, what was the impact? And so, ridership has increased actually 16% for northbound trips. Um southbound is up slightly, 2%. And the actual running time of the bus went down by 15 to 20%. So, that's savings for riders, less time on the bus, that's savings for drivers. They have a more I don't want to say guaranteed running time, but they have a more consistent running time so that when they reach the end of their trip, they are have time to use the restroom or take a break, get out of their bus. Um so, this data was looking at 2020, fall 2024 compared to fall 2025 cuz this change happened in June of 2025. So, looking ahead to this year, um we are on the route 14. Um I don't know if you're familiar with Network Now. It was a framework of changes that the council passed, um I believe in early March of 2025. So, these Better Bus Route projects will now incorporate the changes that had been passed as part of Network Now. On the route 14, there are a number of branch changes. The net route 14 has a lot of branches. Um when I looked into data of just the the drivers when they call into the control center, maybe they made a wrong turn or don't know where to go. The route 14 really stood out. They drivers were getting a little bit lost. And so, not just once, it happened um several times. I could see through the data because there's just there's a lot of turns and branches. So, we're simplifying things. This The map on the screen shows there's one image of North Minneapolis. Um the route will stay on West Broadway from um you know, North Minneapolis all the way up to the Robbinsdale Transit Center. One branch, um one routing. There will be um a new route which I will show in the next slide that will take over the D branch which is along Douglas and Golden Valley Road. Um some of these branches have been suspended since the pandemic. So, the Noble Avenue branch which was formally eliminating that. Um And there's some changes along the E branch. So, it will serve school trips um only at for Roosevelt High School. There's another image on the screen with new routing in Richfield. So, the route currently goes down Bloomington Avenue to 66 um Street, but we are moving it over on Richfield Parkway which brings riders closer to the Target, the Home Depot. There's a number of retail businesses down there. And we were working with the city of Richfield. We're we're actually going to install a pedestrian walkway because there is no accessible walkway across Richfield Parkway right now. So, we're putting stops in and then we want to make sure can people cross the road. So, we're going to make sure that that happens. And then we also just got word this week that we can improve the frequency on this route weekdays from about 11:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. Because one thing we find with these projects, we're asking riders sometimes to deal with a lot of changes. We're maybe changing their bus stop, we're changing their branch, but then it's really nice when we can then return and say but we're going to improve your frequency so you have more trips, more trip times. We're going to have some improved early morning, late night times. So, it's it's nice to provide that benefit along with some of the major changes. Oh, and so this the next slide is This is a map I know this is hard to see on the screen, but is a map showing the new route 48 that will travel from Robbinsdale Transit Center at the top and then follow essentially like I mentioned the D branch routing. Currently, the D branch only has weekday service every hour. We will be adding service on Saturday and Sunday, which is a pretty big improvement. So, folks can travel all days of the week. This is bringing service back to local bus service to a section of Penn Avenue between Glenwood and Golden Valley Road and then it will end this route will end in downtown. So, that's a new route that will be rolling out the same time as the 14, which all of these changes the routing changes are happening in August with our August service changes. >> All right, and then just to wrap it up for our second project of this year, which is as Michaela said also happening in August is route 74. Um so just like the 14, some of the ideas on these routing changes came out of that network next initiative. It was a multi-year planning process. There was a lot of engagement with cities and and residents during that phase. Um so for the 74, we are uh just like the 14, kind of cleaning it up. This is also one of those routes that had a lot of different branches. I think a lot of confusion on Just wait a second. >> [laughter] >> A lot of confusion for riders and then really bringing people kind of out of direction. Um and this is these changes are going to really really simplify the route. So we're [clears throat] eliminating a few of the branches on the east end. Uh which results in a much cleaner route alignment and really puts more service where we're seeing the most riders today. I think that's the other thing is, you know, this isn't only about taking away service for for some. It's really you're you're adding service kind of where it makes the most sense. Um and then as Michaela said, just got the word um a few days ago that we're able to increase the frequency. It's always nice as you're asking people to maybe walk a little bit further to provide some some type of compensation in a sense for that. So you're getting better service um for I think both projects it's weekday and Saturday. >> And small some small changes >> changes on Saturday. So uh really where when most riders are are using it. So uh really really happy about that. For our reach, uh Michaela did a great job sort of summarizing uh what we normally do. We for this particular project, we had close to 300 surveys uh completed, 170 written comments. So, a lot of people are willing to share their opinions. Um and we read all of the comments and uh again, have made made adjustments to the proposed plan um to recognize that. And then uh again, just like with every project, uh we're making improvements to accessibility. There's about eight or 10 different locations where we're adding new ADA pads. And I think in this one, maybe there's five new shelters that are identified. So, um and but both those areas uh are going to be a big win for riders. And uh last slide here, I know we're uh this is going to be very hard to see. Um a very zoomed out map of Route 74. Uh so, this is uh simply showing the uh the the final alignment is shown there in blue. And you're connecting 46th Street Station um at the Blue Line all the way across uh Highland through downtown Saint Paul and over to Sunray uh Transit Center. So, what is being dropped um are those uh it's kind of where it's shaded and sort of that amber color, that yellow color. Um and without going into detail, you can see how that added a lot of complexity. Um so, this is um uh really cleaning up the 74. And and just like with Route 48, with Route 48, we are adding a suburban local route to to maintain some coverage for those riders uh whose service on the 74 is is going away. But, uh many of them will retain access on a new route called the 215. So. I will leave it at that. Um but, we are welcome uh we welcome any questions. >> Yeah, I have I want I have one. I want to I want to revisit Ken's question cuz I think it it might a little more relevant, uh especially as we look at So, I'm seeing, you know, some some some routes jog away and then come back. Um what if, you know, that was chosen because there was an accessible route to that bus stop? Do you all take into consideration I see um um the accessibility of the bus stop itself, but to go back to Ken Ken's question, when you're doing the better uh bus route, do you take into consideration, okay, if we move a stop from this corner to this corner, is there an accessible route while it's maybe not necessarily your your property or jurisdiction? The reason for that stop being there was the fact that there could have been an accessible route there and not somewhere else. Does that make sense? Like say you're moving a stop away from uh an accessible pad that had a sidewalk to it and you're moving it to a location that while it streamlines the bus route, getting to that location is not as accessible. Does that make sense? >> Yeah, Mr. Chairman, I think I do follow you. >> Okay. >> Um as we're moving service, we would make sure that the future bus stop is accessible and I would say well, maybe without exception that the path to that bus stop should be accessible. There I mean, in the example and I'm not sure which one you were talking about specifically, but let's just say the route 14, I don't know how to go back here or the excuse me, the 74. >> Um this is hypothetical, obviously. >> [laughter] >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um I mean, there there will be some cases where as you're eliminating branches that are in more of a suburban market, um accessibility will be a challenge for those riders. >> [clears throat] >> And uh you know, we can we can try to compensate by adding service that is closer to them. Um, at the end of the day, it's really hard though if there is not sidewalks within the within those communities how to maintain really the same level of access while trying to achieve our goals of route simplification for most. >> And um, if I can interrupt Mike, um, so one of the changes on this route 14, like I mentioned in Richfield, um, Bloomington Avenue right now in Richfield only has sidewalks on one side of the street. And the other side is just grass, people's front lawns. So in addition to wanting to move the bus closer to retail destination jobs such as that, the Richfield Parkway has really nice sidewalks. So we do take that into account. Um, I think it's just like what Mike is saying, a lot of our system is very it's been there a long time and some of it is there because that's where the streetcar went. So as we just look for improvements, it is really kind of in the suburban areas I would say where there's not always a complete sidewalk network. >> Well, and and if I can jump in again, sorry. Uh, Michaela, I was actually when you were presenting this slide going to highlight that change. Um, because you know, business as usual just means you kind of leave things where they were. I'm sure route 14 operated on this stretch of Bloomington for generations, right? There's new development. What's not shown on here is that's where the Target is, that's where the Home Depot is and all of those other retail destinations. And um, it takes it takes people to kind of shake up a route to to kind of recognize that and to make what I would say is a common sense change. I mean, this change is going to at least in this case really benefit people. Yes, you are moving it a few blocks over, but it probably should have been done years ago as that site was developed. Um so this is uh maybe not answering a question about accessibility, but about really thinking about the purpose and sort of the destinations along a route and saying, "Does the current alignment still meet everyone's needs even though, you know, things change uh over time?" Uh so I would point to that as actually a a an example of a great win for a better bus route type project. >> Thank you. And I didn't have a specific example. I was just thinking, like as I see, say on on slide eight where you have, you know, the indirect and more confusing, and then you move it to, you know, this the the it's it's a more direct line, but you move the stop from what had an accessible route to an accessible pad to uh just an accessible pad that might not have an accessible route to it. Because you're that's not necessarily in the scope of what you're looking at when you move that bus stop. Again, I'm not basing this on an actual thing that I've seen. >> [laughter] >> Just because you talked about, you know, the criteria for selecting uh routes and and bus stops, you know, ADA compliance was one of them, but also the route to get to that ADA compliant bus stop is is very important as well. Um maybe like when you go and say, "Oh, does this have a sidewalk to it?" Yes, cool. Fantastic. It's even even better. Ken. So I'll have him. >> He's having audio problems. >> Okay. I'll come back to you, Ken. Uh Chris, take it away. >> Yeah, I I have a question regarding uh the new route 48. So is the red what it originally was and then it went to blue? So all of red is now eliminated? Is that correct? >> Can we go to slide 13? >> Yeah, slide 13. >> All right. Uh thank you, Chair, committee members. Um So, it's There are a couple sections of red where service will be eliminated. So, there's a small section on 36th Avenue North between uh France and Noble Avenue. Um that section [clears throat] is the bus stops that are currently there, we look at ridership. They're fairly low ridership. We look at what is the distance to the stops that will remain, and they're within our quarter mile distance. The purple line that is on Douglas, Golden Valley Road, that is the new routing. So, there's uh I think just that section on 36th Avenue North, and then a small section on Golden Valley Road between Penn and Knox where there's currently Route 14 service, and there won't be starting in August. >> Okay. >> [clears throat] >> Is your audio up and running, Ken? You're satisfied with that, Chris? You got a follow-up or you good? >> I'm still a little confused by just looking at what you what you have designed. So, everything in blue >> Ev- Everything in blue will be the Route 14. >> That's Route 14. >> Yeah. Everything in purple will be the Route 48. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And >> Oh, sorry, go ahead. >> [clears throat] >> And what Go ahead. No, what? >> Oh, I was just going to say, I think on slide um one of these slides we have the web page. If not, I can share it. And we have a whole information page, so you can kind of dive a little deeper into the changes, but >> Okay. >> I'm good. Yeah, I'll look at that. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. Ken, I see your hand up. >> Yeah, thank you. And I'm sorry, I lost my audio for a bit there. I had to log off and log back on, so I'm sorry if this question has already been addressed, but I have three quick um one question, two points. Um The first is when you are redesigning bus stops, um are any of Do Do you pay close attention to bus routes that might be overlapping on bus routes? >> Um Mr. Chairman Committee, um yeah, it's it's pretty common, um especially as you get closer into the core of either downtown um that a single route will serve multiple stops. And yeah, that would be something we look at, so that's a factor in if we were to propose eliminating it or what the facility needs should be at those stops. >> I think Are you asking if multiple routes serve the same stop? >> Uh no, I actually Maybe I misspoke. If If you consider the the interplay between bike routes and bus routes. >> Uh Mr. Chairman Committee, um there certainly are uh a lot more uh bike routes um and bike lanes that the both cities are adding. Um and uh we are seeing a lot more of a mix between bike routes and and our route alignments. I I think traditionally bike lanes have been sort of a a street over, and now they're kind of moving more on the main streets. Um and that, you know, that can be a factor. I think as the um in some cases it's uh just an on-street bike lane, so there is um the appropriate striping. Uh there's sort of like this conflict striping to communicate to bike riders that uh a bus stop is a bus could be merging. Uh and in other cases, especially for new construction, bike lanes are often moving behind the curb. And that's a whole different conversation about the interplay between uh behind the curb bike lanes and bus stops or in some cases BRT stations and how those work together. Um I mean, I think there are design approaches that can resolve those conflicts. >> Uh and and this brings me to my point of when bike lanes are converted to um move to the sidewalk. So, in essence, we call this bus island effect. So, the bus islands are being created as sort of this island that gets capsuled by a bike path that's now kind of on the sidewalk, so it's shared. Um I I want to raise your level of awareness so that when you're working with this kind of a a system, um we are seeing that cities are implementing a a some what they're calling a barrier between bike lane and pedestrian walkways with an inappropriate tactile walking surface indicator. They're using guide ti- tiles which are designed to guide blind people to something, not to separate two different functions. And there is another design element, surface a tactile walking indicator, that has been introduced into the environment called a trapezoid that is much better designed to separate the function of a bike path versus a pedestrian and And entities are not getting this information that is now being not required but suggested by the US Access Board to be used in these instances to prevent people from finding a guide tile thinking that they're being guided somewhere when that's really not how they're being used. So, I want to bring that to your attention so you can help start that conversation with entities when there has to be bike lane interaction with bus stops. Um the second thing I wanted to mention is you mentioned in your presentation that that where there's been an eliminated stop can um can be reinstated if there's a need. Um what I would like to suggest is that there be a prominent section on your website that identify um these bus stop changes that identify the process that a person with a disability can ask for a reasonable modification of policy. So, that they can ask for an added bus stop as a reasonable modification of policy, which is the formal structure of the ADA. Um and that's implied >> Mhm. >> but I would like to see that visually um named on the website. So, when people are looking at changes and they realize their stop has been eliminated that they understand their process and how they can ask for a reasonable modification of policy to get that stop put back as an ADA accommodation. Um we don't have enough of that kind of information to guide our residents on what the proper process is. I'd like to see that added to your website. And then um uh I'll I'll leave it at those two. Thank Thank you for for being here and for your presentation. >> Thank you, Ken. Those are really good suggestions. You can respond if you like. But they're they were more comments. >> Yeah, sure. Um I mean I think that's a a comment that I'll take back to the rest of Metro Transit. So, um what the what he was talking about is BRT stations. I think and you do see that a lot more. Um certainly in downtown Minneapolis, along Hennepin Avenue is maybe the most prominent example. But as bike lanes are being added off-street bike lanes are being added, I think that does lead to that can lead to more friction with pedestrians and transit riders. And so getting the solution there, I had not heard of the uh trapezoid design. So, um I can certainly pass that comment along. Obviously, we want to do what makes sense for the the people that are using it. Uh regarding his second point, I'm not sure if I was aware of that of that term. Um we have a lot of different um opportu- ways for folks to provide feedback. But again, I want to make sure we get it right. So, if there's a specific thing that um we should be doing differently, we're always kind of iterating on how to to do better for engagements. Um so, yeah. I mean I I I would certainly think that we could uh work towards our next year's projects. So, we've got two websites today that I'll probably sunset here in the next few months. But um just like clockwork, there'll be another uh few websites for the 11 and 32 that we're going to start um next year. So, we can um talk to our outreach engagement staff to see if that's a possibility. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for the response. Any more questions in the room or online? Thank you for coming. That was a good discussion. >> [clears throat] >> Thank you for having us. Have a good rest of your day. >> All right. Ken, do you have uh Blue Line updates for us? >> Um sure. Um we uh recently at our uh April meeting we did a field trip uh to the um Green Line extension. Uh the Green Line extension is not open uh at this point. So, we traveled part of the route um to identify the location uh the Green Line extension has a lot of non-traditional stops which are a concern for me because they require a different kind of access point to be able to get onto the platform safely. So, I've been harping on that quite a bit with the Blue Line extension design team. And um some of those designs were implemented into the Green Line uh extension. So, we went to look at that. We uh went actually we had to don safety vests and hard hats and we went uh in the locked gated area of construction zone for some of the actual platforms on the Green Line to review some of the updated ADA accessibility features that are being implemented and rolled out on the Green Line extension that will also follow through on the Blue Line extension. And um and then had quite an extensive conversation. Um part of the exercise also included having blindfolds or sleep shades for uh sighted folks that are part of that working group so that they could experience their own um concept of what it was like to encounter an unusual entrance to a light rail station using some of the new features for accessibility including new surface walking tactile indicators and railings that are being used as a guide. Um and then we had a really good discussion about that. I think it was an excellent excellent um source for us to experience. And good for me to see that all of the harping and and comments I've made about accessibility are not going on deaf ears. They're they're being implemented by the planners in a very thoughtful and intriguing way. And um so it it's it was really a great experience to get on those closed off light rail platforms to see how they're actually being implemented and I think they're going to provide a much safer and more intuitive way to get on some of those non-traditional platforms. Um we have another meeting coming up in um July 1st so I'll have more information probably in July. >> Thank you, Ken. Um I think I think site visits are underrated. We see renderings and pictures in in our meetings here. It reminds me of the site visit that Michelle and I took to the Franklin and Cedar station which is highly used and also people are annoyed by it as well but it really was insightful to see and and sort of provide on the ground, you know, real-time like accessible improvements that they could do. One thing that they're hoping that they're going to be able to do is put a signalized, again, signalized, not just the RFID, the blinking yellow light, crossing on Franklin to get from one side to the other cuz it's right when you're down there now, it really is horrible. And they were more than on board with that with that suggestion from us. The new ramps that are going to go in are going to I think it's going to be fantastic, but just to kind of piggyback on on the site visit, it really does help cuz Metro Transit brings out they bring out the firms that are doing the design or did the design to hear from the people who are going to be using it. Like you said, Ken, they do take everything we say into consideration. It's not just Oh, yeah, you tell us this and we're going to do whatever we want anyways. So, thank you for for doing that site visit. >> Yeah, you know, what one thing I wanted to just help educate folks that may not be aware of this, but the the rapid tick flashing crossing um those by design are um flashing yellow lights, which we all know that flashing yellow lights do not require vehicles to stop. They're cautionary. They're meant to say, "Hey, be careful, um drivers, there's some reason to be cautious." And it's usually a pedestrian crossing of some sort. But, they do not require vehicles to stop. And for somebody who's blind or deaf-blind, we have no way of knowing when those yellow lights are flashing because they often times are accompanied, if they have one, uh an accessible pedestrian signal, but it's not fully accessible. It's only a push button. There's no vibrotactile feedback, so one doesn't know that the actual signal is engaged, and there's no auditory feedback, so one doesn't know that the flashing lights are yellow right now. So, there's no confirmation for people with certain types of disabilities. We understand there's also something called a hybrid beacon. And this is what I want to share so that people learn about this. A hybrid beacon is different from the yellow flashing. They're red flashing. And when these have an accessible pedestrian signal, they do have vibrotactile feedback, so one knows when it's been pushed and engaged, and they do have a verbal feedback that identifies the lights are flashing red. That doesn't indicate that it's safe to cross. It doesn't um you know, give you a completely safe uh method of knowing that cars are stopping, but at least you know that the red lights are flashing, and that red light means cars must stop. So, it's a little bit of an upgrade from the yellow I hate the yellow flashing. They're they're useless to me as a blind traveler. Um and I'm starting now to advocate really strongly in all of those instances where they have yellows, there should be beacon there they should they should be hybrid flashing lights, which are the red ones that only get turned on when somebody needs to cross. Um so, I just wanted to share that cuz that's a a common misunderstanding that people have about different methods and ways of crossing at non-traditional intersections. So, um I I hope that's helpful information for folks. >> It It is, Ken. Thank you. Yeah, I wouldn't even think about crossing it at flashing yellow light if I wasn't assured that the cars were stopped or not there. It's like basically a death sentence. Um maybe that's something we should take a position on as a body. Um [snorts] but we can revisit that at another time uh since it is not on the agenda. Um are there any members of the public who would like to make a comment? I have to ask. Um are there any members here that would like to make a comment? I have one thing to bring up but everybody else can go first, too. Otherwise, [snorts] we can end early after >> Oh, Sam. Yes, Sam. >> I apologize. I got I got here late. Um I'm also very sorry if Metro mobility I've been saying that I missed it. So, I will have questions after on what was discussed if anybody could call me and talk to me about it. Um Ken, I'm wondering those those flashing the hybrid lights, so do they say something, too, I presume, right? >> Say something like what? >> Are Are they just for the for the driver to see or are they are they verbal so we'll know that it's a flashing that's a red? >> Yeah, so the accessible part of the signal is not only supposed to identify through vibrotactile that the signal has been engaged, but it should also give an audio feedback saying the flashing red lights are on. It's not going to tell you that it's safe to cross, but it'll identify that the flashing reds are on. >> I see. Okay. All right. Um uh David, are you available after that I could just touch base briefly in regards to Metro mobility? >> Yes. If you had a Did you want it were >> Okay. >> So so we're actually finishing up with the agenda now and we are in the member comment section. >> Yeah. >> If you would like to make a member comment about Metro mobility, you can. >> [clears throat] >> Um yes, so my member comment is that So I apologize. I don't know what was discussed today, but I am very interested in having uh she gave statistics uh if we're going to get statistics in regards to the same-day premium um cab contract as well. Um since I there's been some issues coming up in regards to that. >> I heard same-day premium. It was a little muffled in the beginning. >> So in my same I'm I'm hoping we are going to get statistics in regards to the same-day premium cabs similar to what we get for the Metro mobility. >> Did anybody pick that up? >> I didn't. >> Um she can contact me directly after the meeting. We can have a one-on-one conversation if she prefers. >> She wants us to the same way that you get statistics for Metro mobility. >> Yeah, so the >> Oh, statistics. >> Right. >> That was the word. >> The statistics that we get for Metro mobility, I hope that we can start getting from the same-day premiums because we're starting I'm starting to hear about a lot of issues and so I'm interested in knowing how those are going to be handled. >> Did Did you get that, Jim? >> Statistics. Yes, statistics. That that that was the word we we were not picking up on was statistics. That makes sense. >> Statistics. Yeah, sorry. >> Thank you. If you >> [clears throat] >> We we do have time if you want to share some of the concerns that folks that folks have brought to you, you can you're more than now's a good time as being part of member comment. We can't necessarily guarantee a response. We can't guarantee a response, but yes, go ahead. >> Yes. So, just the statistics things that I'm hearing are um some a little bit higher of um dog refusal again. Um also, the biggest complaint that I've heard is that people will call at 11:00 a.m. and they'll say they can't make any more MetroMobility rides that day. Not that they can't make any more rides, they can't make any more MetroMobility rides. >> Interesting. >> Um So, this gets tricky to understand, but I'm interested in knowing cuz I know three people who called me and told me yes, this particular day uh I don't even know if they were all calling on the one day, but the same day, but three people called me and told me they had gotten that recently. Um on a sunny day, it was not raining, it wasn't you know, this was the you know, nice spring day. So, I'm concerned to know how many refusal of making rides is happening. Um and that's the biggest complaint I hear. >> Thank you, Sam. Those are >> a piggyback question? >> Yeah, those are both not good concerns. Um Ken, Ken, go ahead. >> Yeah, and I'll be a little bit more specific and again, I don't expect a response right now. This is just what we've heard uh from community members and then doing a little bit more digging. Uh some responses that we've heard. Um I'm sharing this so that um Julie, you can just take it in and follow up on your own um or we can have a conversation offline uh if that's more appropriate. But what I heard about those particular we're not giving any more MetroMobility rides today uh stems from the inability for premium same day to provide wheelchair uh rides because of an inaccessible vehicles or an inability to provide an accessible vehicle for a needed ride. And when um users checked in um with Metromobility staff they were told that premium same day uh transportation plus was told if you cannot provide a wheelchair accessible vehicle for a Metromobility ride request, then you cannot provide a ride for anybody else under Metromobility as long as you cannot provide all riders ride. Um I I understand that process. I I get it. But I want to make a comment about we need to be really careful about how we approach this kind of an issue or a problem because I think what can happen is this is starting then to set up a conflict between all riders who need uh or who who use Metromobility and premium same day against riders in wheelchairs. And this could get out of hand as um we have seen this in the disability community especially in the financing arena. Where often times disability organizations are pitted against each other fighting for the same few dollars that might be available. And this reminds me of a catalyst for this kind of conflict that if all riders are being prevented from obtaining rides because they can't provide them for wheelchair users, I I understand the inequity and the inequality of that, but to shut off all rides doesn't seem to be the most appropriate response to have. I agree we need to have a response. We need to have a way that ensures all riders get the rides that they need. And so instead of just making a knee-jerk reaction of saying if you can't provide them for wheelchairs, nobody gets a ride. We need to come up with a different solution so that we don't start pitting part of our community against the other part of our community. >> That's a really good point, Ken. This is problematic. I'll respond cuz I have some background knowledge here because the ability to provide wheelchair accessible vehicle rides was really high up on this election criteria when we picked um these premium on demand services. My question to you two uh can we name names in as to which company's doing it? Userve, Carepool, Transportation Plus? >> Transportation Plus. >> Okay. >> And I don't know this is Sam, sorry. I don't know if every transportation company is doing it. I know that Transportation Plus is because the three people that told talked to me named them. >> Thank you, Sam. >> And maybe a maybe a follow-up question is do the other two providers um do they have their own wheelchair wheelchair vehicles or do they rely on Transportation Plus's wheelchair vehicles? >> No, Userve and carefully you utilize their own fleet. >> Okay. Thank you for that clarification. >> And just to to follow up with the comment on U Serve, I have heard um that particular company an issue of they don't answer their phone. And I don't know, I haven't used them myself, so I can't I can't attest to that, but that's the comment I heard in regards to them. >> Thank you. Sounds like there's some hiccups in uh the new the new uh POD folks. Um I think we might need to have that as an agenda item or maybe something that we talk about offline, but thank you for thank you for bringing that up, Sam and Kent. >> If you do um have a discussion offline, I would ask I would really uh hope that I can be included in that. >> Most definitely. >> Thank you. >> I would say that we we shouldn't have that discussion without without you there, Sam. Um Any other members want to make comments? All right, I will we actually did pretty good at stretching this meeting out. Um um I'll just say one last thing before we adjourn. So, we do have a few open slots on uh the this committee, the Transportation Accessibility Advisory Committee, and we will be having some more open up. I think that is what is playing into uh uh our lack of quorum. Also, it's summer time and it's nice outside, but um I'm going to spend probably the next week or two trying to get uh the the vacant spots filled. Um [snorts] I will say to folks who are committee members and have thoughts uh on people who maybe should or would like to be on this committee uh to reach out to myself and or Kevin so we can kind of just jump start this process so we can get some get some fresh some fresh faces here. So with that said we are adjourned. >> All right. >> Thank you all. >> Thank you.