August 31st, 2026. If you please rise for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right. Well, welcome to our meeting tonight. More here than I thought were going to show up. It's glad glad you're here. All right. Lauren, do you want to take roll call? >> Council member Wy >> present. >> Council member Tradewell >> here. >> Mayor Rolf >> here. >> Council member West >> present. >> Council member Bray Johnson >> here. >> All right. Uh, does anybody have any announcements? Do have a couple here. uh one that book in the back that black book there that has uh our agenda and all the supporting documents that we have before us in that uh folder there. Uh it's also on the city website too under agendas. Uh we also on September 22nd at 6 pm we're having a meet the candidate forum here uh for the two running for county commissioner uh one running for mayor and five running for city council. Uh I'm actually going to be uh putting that on with the help of two of our past mayors uh Dan Denl and Mark Corin. So it should be a good time. So hopefully you guys come and come with some good questions. Um [clears throat] you probably excuse me you probably were already aware we had a budget work session before this meeting. That's what that was about. But this here now is the actual council meeting. And then [clears throat] lastly, uh some of you may be aware, some of you may not uh but we have a court case uh regarding electronic poll rosters that is actually going to be heard uh before the Supreme Court uh state of Minnesota that is at the Capitol on September the 8th at 9 a.m. So there'll be more to share after that. And I know I said that was last, but I also attended uh the school board meeting uh three weeks ago and um thank them for their uh uh for everything they're doing for us and the partnership and for uh staff and it was a good meeting. I was the only one in attendance, but uh it was a good meeting. So that's it. All right. Setting of the regular agenda. It's a time to either add or delete an item. Do we have any changes? >> Make a motion to set the agenda. Second. >> All right, we have a motion by Council Member West, second by Council Member Bray Johnson. All in favor, indicate by saying I. I. Opposed. >> Motion passes five to zero. Uh we are to the public forum. If there's anyone here that would like to speak to us about an item that is not on the agenda, I'd ask for you to come up, state your name and address for the record, and try and limit your remarks to three minutes. Okay. [clears throat] Hi, I'm Scott Coggins. Uh 15043 Thrust Street, Northwest Andover. I'm a member of ASIT election judge. Uh you don't get Derek tonight, you get me. Um he's on vacation, but we wanted to he sent some documents over. Um again, more transparency trying to kind of clarify this issue. This is a whole different one which is on our talent uh ballot tabulation m machines and not being certif federally certified. And so the main packet that he emailed is long. Um I'm here to kind of paraphrase and kind of explain the key points. Uh if you look at the last two pages of that and you can do this later, you don't have to do it right now, but it's essentially two letters um that one is from ESNS um which is the maker of the m ballot tabulator machines to in noa county basically saying that they need to remove uh the stickers um that essentially say that they're federally certified. And we were never notified in public. I'm not sure whether at the time again this was in 2020 uh when this happened and so anyway the do the document goes through all the different elements and essentially uh says they're not certified and so then the next question is well why were the stickers removed and so that it gets into the whole issue of that the main issue related is is the modems and so what the county is now saying because that we just had them rebutt some of the things that were in our documentation essentially they they acknowledge that they're not EAC certified, which is the only way to federally certify. Um yet their website on the SOS and NOA County still claims that they're federally certified. They're now claiming that they're done by experts. So again, there's lots of change of language and we've kind of we just want to make it clear and we're we have a lot more questions that need to be answered and we really need your help and so um because we really need the cities again put the pressure back on the county, put the um to these key issues of um why are why are you saying they're certif federally certified yet you had to remove stickers on some of these machines and they don't have the stickers on them. Um so why? And so it gets again to another key issue of transparency and why because they're claiming that they're certified except for the modems. Well, I'm a technology guy and it doesn't pass the smell test when you so we certify you know water and if we're I put a drop of mercury in it and and then you know all of a sudden it's still certified except for the mercury. It doesn't work that way. So and just like cars, airplanes, anything that's certified this just doesn't make sense yet. this is what they're saying. And so for us, it's again, it's another hole in our system that needs to have transparent, needs to be dealt with, and it's not. And that's we just need your help to get these questions brought to the forefront like you're already doing on other issues. This is where it starts. So, it's it's kind of crazy. There's a lot in there. We've had a member of our team that's done the extensive research. Um, so that's kind of what's in the the big report. Um, obviously we're here to answer any questions, but we've got like 10 really good questions that we want the county, we've asked, just know that we've asked the secretary of state and we've asked the county and we get a lot of fingerpointing both ways like we've [clears throat] had on other issues. So again, I'm just here to raise this another issue that we're trying to bring transparent so everybody knows what we're using. So thank you for your time and appreciate it. Thanks. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> All right. Anyone else here? Come on up again if you can just state your name and address for [clears throat] the record. >> Hi, I'm Lee Oerstrom. I live at 220008 Rum River Boulevard in Oak Grove. And I'm here representing along with my pastor. Um we're representing New Life Church at 18975 um Lake George Boulevard here in Oakrove. And I'm going to hand this to everybody. The one that's has a paper clip has signatures [clears throat] from our from our members and I'll let the pastor be the key spokesperson. Thank you for um welcoming us in and give for the opportunity to speak tonight. New Life Church owns uh easement rights connected to the veterinary clinic property next to ours, Oakrove Animal Hospital. On July 21st, we received a voicemail from Amy Morgan, the owner of Oakrove Animal Hospital, informing us she was in the process of selling the building to the corporation that had purchased her business. And in that message, she stated that survey work for the buyer had raised concerns about the original driveway agreement and that it was incorrect and that a new easement agreement, which was 20ome years ago. Now she's saying it was incorrect and that a new easement agreement was being drafted for our review and signature. That voicemail was the first time we learned the property was being sold or that any change to the existing easement arrangement was being pursued. We began looking into the matter and based on what we found, we disagree with the statement that the original driveway agreement was simply drawn up incorrectly. The existing agreement was signed filed with the county and it has governed the use of the driveway for all of these years. We later learned that Ms. Morgan had divided her parcel into three parcels, a mini subdivision, and this process has been underway for well over a year. We also understand the city approved plans related to that division. Even though the proposed use appears to depend on expanded access across property that's owned by New Life Church, we were not meaningfully involved in that process. We didn't receive the notice that we should have been provided. It's deeply concerning to us. It appears that plans were developed, reviewed, and approved before we were informed. We were recently told a letter was sent last year. We never received it. And being the property owners, one would think we should probably have known. Even though the practical result would require additional use of the driveway we own, it seems it we feel like it should have been come by certified mail or more of an effort so that we would know because we never received this letter. Um [snorts] we have not been given full transparency uh including complete diagrams and information about the proposed use yet. We are expected within days to consider signing the new easement agreement that she had drawn up after the fact. The current easement was granted for one parcel. Expanding that access to serve an additional parcel or other another unknown business is a significant change for us. The animal hospital already uses the driveway heavily resulting in more traffic wear and activity than New Life Church would create on its own with 25 members. >> [snorts] >> In addition, vehicles use our property not only for access but for parking, turning around, other incidental activity. An NOA County, if an NOA County has the authority to deny a second driveway on County Road 9, then New Life Church is the owner of the existing driveway access, must also have the right to decline expanded easement rights across our property for a business that we don't even know how much traffic it would produce. So, at this time, we are not consenting to increased easement rights or additional businesses using our driveway. We also recognize that the sale and parcel division may now be far along in the process. However, the fact that we learned about it late doesn't make this new life church's responsibility. We believe the responsibility rests with those who proceeded without ensuring that the property owner affected by the proposed access changes was properly informed and included in the process from the beginning. So we respectfully ask the city council to recognize New Life Church's property rights to acknowledge any expansion of easement rights requires our informed consent to ensure that no further action proceeds in a way that assumes our approval before it's been given by us. Thank you for your time and consideration. >> Thank you. [clears throat] >> This is the original. I'm back to you. >> Have they been been in contact with you at all or? >> Yeah, I addressed pretty much everything she brought up tonight in an email to her about a month or so ago, and I haven't heard from them until tonight. >> All right. All right. We'll look into it some more here. I said we'll look into it. Maybe make sure you get Lauren's email that the last one he got and and work with him and we'll try to all figure >> he just said it wasn't it was already approved and >> what I said is I believe it's a matter between two property owners. That easement she's referencing is an agreement that is not with the city. It's with the two property owners and there are provisions in that easement for them to resolve some of the matters she's brought up. >> The city approved. If I could comment on that, if the city's approving plans without going through us, when does the city take responsibility for it? Are can the city just approve everything and then the taxpayers or businesses just have to deal with whatever the city approves? >> Notice was provided. Like I said, we never received one. And and using our access, you you would think that you'd want to make sure that we were involved in the decision m making process. It's not like we're a neighbor that's 500 ft away. It's actually going through our property. >> Completely understand. We sent a notice to all property owners within a thousand feet and actually several neighbors did show up and they raised comments and questions during the public hearing. >> But we're not just neighbors. But we're not going to go back and forth with this right now. We certainly can can look into this more, but this isn't the the place for it right now. >> And if you're going to talk, I need you to come up here because those at home can't hear you. >> I do have a letter here from Mr. Lauren Wickham dated April 4th, 2025 that says as we as he wrote it, it's actually not from him. It's from >> Chuck Schwarz. >> Pardon me. >> Chuck Schwarz. It's on MSA >> Heads. And And it literally says access will be from a shared driveway that crosses the animal hospital property. How can that be? How can that be approved when the access has not there is no shared access for a new business for an an out outlot? A it it I don't that's our main issue is it says access will be from a shared driveway. You can't say you couldn't approve that when you don't when there's no access to to the subdivision outlay. A our easement is for one. >> I'm gonna say at least just for right now. This isn't the time for that. Doesn't mean we're not willing to listen. >> Thank you. >> U this is totally new to me. I haven't heard about any of this. So, you're kind of catching me off guard here and I just have to do some research. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Anybody else for the public forum? All right. Well, we'll move on here then. Um, approval of council minutes stated or work session minutes dated July 27th and the regular scheduled meeting uh July 27th. I did see one um error in the minutes towards the bottom uh of the the regular meeting. We talked about cell phones. And the way I read it, it almost looks like um I [clears throat] was opposed to it and John was opposed to it, but I think it was actually Mike that was opposed to it. So, it was a three to two, but I it kind of makes it look like you supported it, Mike, but I think you were opposed, right? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, I think if we could just flip that. I was support if he was not. And uh any other comments, questions, concerns? >> Motion to approve. >> All right. Motion to approve by council member West. >> A second by council member Bray Johnson. All in favor indicate by saying I. I. >> Opposed. Passes five to zero. >> Uh we are to uh the park and planning commission minutes. Um, unless anybody has any comments or questions from the leazison about that, I guess we'll just accept those. All right. Uh, St. Francis School Board uh or school board member was going to come tonight, but uh last minute didn't work out. So, maybe we'll get get the next one. So, we'll just uh pass by that. And we are now to the consent agenda. Um, our city administrator is going to put a list of items on the screen there. We're going to vote in all of these in one motion unless someone from this uh council staff or someone from the audience would like to pull one. I would like to pull item D and item G, which I suppose pulling item G, we'd have to pull item H as well, right? >> Correct. Yep. They're both related >> depending on each other. >> So, I'm looking for a motion to approve item >> I'd like to pull one. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> Thanks. [laughter] I'd like to pull E. >> E. All right. Which then we'd have to pull F. >> Yep. >> All right. Anything else? >> Is there anything left? >> We got A, B, and C. >> Okay. I'll approve A, B, C. >> Second. >> Motion [snorts] by Council Member Tradewell, second by Council Member Bray Johnson. All in favor to approve items A, B, and C. I keep by saying I >> I opposed. >> Motion passes five to zero. >> All right. Uh item D. I don't know if the applicant's here or not. I am going to vote to support this, but I just wanted to bring up a comment. When we were talking about the size of pole barns on properties, a [clears throat] lot of people thought that, hey, if we um you know, increase pull barn sizes, that's going to eliminate a lot of problems. Instead, all we did is create another problem because this particular lot would have been 1,800 square ft. uh would have been the max. And now they're building a second building, which I'm fine with. And they're doing it all within 2400 feet or 2400 square feet, which I'm fine with, too. But it's being built too close to the front of the house. So now they need a variance for it, which ultimately we just created another problem. So again, I'm going to support it, but I just was trying to kind of throw that out there that sometimes I think people don't maybe always understand why we vote the way we do on things. And what I was trying to do is eliminate situations like this for one of them. But again, I'm going to approve it. So I would >> have question about it. >> Yes, sir. >> How did the planning commission vote on it? >> It was approved unanimously. >> Okay. >> The city's policy is when the planning commission recommends approval of something unanimously. We place it on the consent agenda. If it was a 4 to1 vote or 3 to2 vote, we would put it under planning off of the consent agenda. That's why all these items from planning are on the consent. >> Okay. Y >> thank you. >> So, could we approve item uh D? >> You want to make the motion >> together? >> No, no, never mind. No, I'm sorry. >> Forget that. D. Item D. All right. I will make the motion. Is there a second? >> Second by council member West. >> All in favor? And you keep by saying I. >> I. >> I. Opposed. I >> was an I. >> Yep. >> Okay. Motion passes five to zero. >> Nope. Four to one. >> Oh, he was against. >> Okay. All right. >> Correct. >> All right. >> All right. So then we are to item E. That was Was that you, Mike? >> Yeah. And that was just a simple question. Lauren, looking through that uh the pages on this is the only thing that changed is the 850 ft. I didn't see anything else in there, but there was a couple pages and I just >> Yeah, I mean >> that's the only thing that changed, right? >> Yes. It's a text amendment. the [clears throat] uh the planning commission held a public hearing I think in May or June to increase the size of accessory dwelling units 850 square feet. So we did amend that already, but there was ADUs listed in another section of the code. That's what's before you tonight just to make sure it's consistent. Uh but for all practical purposes, we have been uh honoring the 850 ft since the council approved that previous amendment. >> Okay. That's all I wanted to know is whether there was something in there I was missing. Nope, it's just >> the 850 over at [clears throat] that. >> There were still some references to the 700 and we missed those on the first round so we cleaned it up on this one. >> Motion to approve. >> Second. >> So we'll do that is item E and F. So motion by council member West, second by I didn't catch >> Mike. >> Council member Wy. All in favor say I. >> I opposed. Motion passes 5-0. All right. Uh the reason why I pulled item G is something as important as a minimum lot size in our city. I think we should um talk a little bit more about versus just have it go through consent. The reason why it was on consent is the planning commission voted unanimously to for the change. So anytime they do it goes under consent. So, um, my only question is, Lauren, [clears throat] is I just want to make sure I'm reading it right that it's going to be an overall minimum two and a quarter acres. So that eliminates the concern there's always been about developers versus um you know your your average uh resident in the city who can't always do the same thing that a developer can because they have larger lots or larger parcels to do all the lots on. It's still 300 feet of road frontage. >> Yes. With this recommendation, the only thing they are proposing to change is the acreage, the minimum lot size, uh from two acres, which is the current minimum to 2.25. It does, it is silent on the road frontage. You may recall a few years ago the planning commission also looked at this issue and at that time they made a recommendation both to change the lot size and the road frontage, but that did not come with this recommendation from the planning commission. just [clears throat] >> right. >> What was the reason we didn't do 2.5? I know there was a reason. >> Well, I will say I I thought it was clear the council or the majority of the council wanted the planning commission to amend the code to be 2 and a half acres. I communicated that with the planning commission, but they they did uh make a recommendation to 2.25. >> I thought that they had a reason. I just want to remember what that is. >> I can talk to Go ahead. Council >> Tra. Yeah. So in like in the packet they show so on a 40 typically they get 16 lots you'll get only 12 the m it really starts getting bad and you start getting in those situations like we have on 22 where you almost need a road going down the middle because they'll make the lots longer and then you know you have access problems in the middle. But the biggest thing was is you're going to lose a lot of potential lots because of doing it versus just leaving it alone like it is today. But the two and a quarter doesn't do that. So I remember a little bit now, Angie, what it is. The win in my opinion, the win-winwin is one, a normal user can divide at the same um size that a developer can now. So that's a win in my eyes. Uh number two is we don't lose a lot of density because of doing it, but we are still increasing our lot size. So anybody with a 300 foot road frontage with a 2 and a/4 acre lot now has three uh 2.5 acres out to the center line, which we weren't doing before. um my developments all but two lots are two acres 2.01 2.04 nothing over 2.1 so that's going to change that everything will be 2.2 two and a quarter. And then the third thing was um and I already said that was the maximum uh usage to get the most out of it because it really goes downhill. They had a bunch of examples in the back. Once you go to that 2.5, you're really losing. I think there was one example on a on an acreage piece that uh um what's his name did? Yeah. Here's on a I forget. It's like Rum River Ridge. Had they done a 2 and a half lot minimum, it would be 51 lots versus 59. you lose eight houses in that development just over that quarter acre. >> So with that logic, we should just go to 1acre lots and you could just double the number. >> We're going bigger. We're already at two. So we're going to two and a quarter. If >> you're looking for that, it depends on what you're looking for. You're looking for housing or you're looking for >> I I I call it a compromise because you're compromising with your builder a little bit and you're compromising with with what the city wants, which is bigger lots. So, um >> well, the the win for I I think the big win is um being able to have a private resident divide their lot and get the maximum out of it than just like a developer can. >> That's the only reason I would vote for this 2.5. >> It's been on my agenda for nine years. >> I know it has. I know it has. I've been strong about it and I I get that. That's the only reason that I'm I'm going to vote for that. >> All right. Now Lauren, that's two and a quarter uh size to the center line of the road. >> No, two and a quarter for the lot. Lot >> for the lot. Not counting the center line. >> The minimum lot size [clears throat] currently [snorts] is 2.0 acres. It will now be 2.25 with this proposal. >> And if you count the lot, not to the center of the road. >> If you count to the center of the road, like Paul said, a lot of those lots, if they have 300, are going to get over 2.5. >> The reason I asked is like Mark Kern used to bring it up all the time. two and a half acres to the center of the road. That's different than what the actual lot size is at the road. >> Correct. Going to two and a quarter. If you look at this amendment in 2026-13 section two, uh, you know, it says size lot dimensions shall comply with the minimum [clears throat] lot area and other dimensional requirements specified in chapter 109. The previous language that talked about to the center of the road is removed here. lot size may be reduced in propo proposition proportion to the area within the subdivision dedicated to right ofway for streets provided that overall density in the subdivision is not increased and the minimum lot size is not less than two acres in any case. So we got rid of all that language about two acres into the center of the road. >> So we're going to have nothing in there about the center of the road anymore. >> We will still use it to count for accessory buildings. >> Okay. >> But it is removed in this definition [clears throat] for the minimum lot size. So, it'll be a true 2.25 acre lot. >> No road. >> No road needed. Yep. >> Right. Okay. >> We took out the average language and we took out the minimum 2.0 acres. >> Okay. >> I really think it's a win. But >> well, as long as happy. >> Well, thank you. >> I'll [clears throat] argue for two and a half acres for many for a couple years. >> But then it's it's spoken as with the road frontage, then it's two and a half. So, I've always been a two and a half acre >> advocate. When I door knocked 3,000 houses, talked to maybe half of them, nobody knew that we had an average here. They all thought our lot minimum was 2 and a half acres and that's how it was. I thought that growing up here my whole life. And I learned from my godfather when I was doornocking who developed a lot of property here, that's not the case. And I was very confused [clears throat] by that. And um we have a lot of people in the city, you know, that they complain about so many houses being built in the city. And you that's a whole other subject. But this 2 and a half acre, I've always stood for that because that's what I hear from the the public that they want and that's what I always thought it was. Um, will I vote for this just because I do think that the private property owner should be able to split their property just like a developer? Yes. Um, our previous chair of the planning commission, him and I went over these these um 16 on 40, many times. He drew it out in his pole barn trying to talk me into this and um I wasn't there. But if that's what it's going to take for private people to be able to divide, I will vote for this. But I still support the two and a two and a half acre minimum minimum. That's it >> to the center of the road. But basically two and a quarter is going to [clears throat] be the same size lot. >> No, I not to the center. Just >> Oh, just minimum. Period. So, she'd rather see [clears throat] two and 3/4 acre lots because that's what you're going to get. >> I'd rather just see two and a half acres. Boom. Done. >> Keep it simple. Keep it simple. >> I mean, keep it simple. >> Don't have to include the center. >> We can just vote on it. >> Yeah. >> I don't know why we're going to Why are we going to include the uh center of the road then for pole buildings, but not for the house? >> It seems like the lot size is a lot size and it should include whatever it is. >> You know what I Because if you make it a two and a quarter uh acre lot, the center line has nothing to do with it. Why are we going to give them credit for that now for a pole building if we go this route? >> I think there's another section that deals with the accessory buildings out to the center of the road. So 109-194 I think talks about the um out to the center of the road to be counted in the acreage. So it's a different code provision. >> So we'd have to change that >> separate from the minimum lot size. Yeah, because then you'd want to change it so that the lot including to center line is 2.5, >> right? >> This way you're getting 75 80% of it. You're just not getting the percentage on the corners and a culde-sac would be the only the only ones that would miss on this. >> So why don't we just keep it simple and [clears throat] put it at two and a half >> to center line. I'd agree with that. But that's not the way a developer develops. they develop a lot size, >> right? >> So, it just made it simple to go with the That's why Brad was trying to convince you is the two and a quarter makes sense because 80 plus% of your lots are going to have 300 feet of road frontage because that's what we require. >> There's 20% that aren't and there it's not keeping it simple >> for everybody. >> For those that may be a little lost in what we're even talking about because if I was sitting out there early on, I'd wonder what we were even talking about here. is that if you take like that new development on 229th in Raven, it's called Aspen >> Aspen Glenn. >> Yeah. You'll see a sign. It says two to 18 acres. And so the developer can have lots as small as two acres, but they have to average two and a half. So you put in a whole bunch of two acre lots and then a couple bigger ones and guess what it averages? So, what we're trying to do is come up with the number of what it is and not this average stuff anymore. And what we're talking about with just the private uh residents or resident of the city, they might have, you know, they're trying to divide, you know, five or 10 acres. >> 4.5 is a great example. >> 4.5. >> Yeah. Or 4.5. I mean, that's an example, too. And so trying to make it fair, whatever the number is, just trying to make it fair that those of us in the city that may want to do that, I'm not one of them, are able to do the same thing as a developer. And so whether it's two or two and a quarter and two and a half, um I was really sold on two and a half as well. Um but talking with the planning commissioners and kind of following this for the last year or two, uh I think two and a or two and a quarter is is a win. Um, there also won't be any questions about pole barns that with a 300 foot road front edge and oh, you're at a 2.01, but technically you got to be at a two and a quarter. I think it [clears throat] helps simplify things. Um, my big thing, which we're not doing. Uh, and that's why I am going to support this. I'm not willing to go less than 300 feet in the width because I know how that's going to go. And last year the planning commission was talking about going to like 250 or 275, >> 275. And next thing you know, you're going to have some of those lots that they have in Andover that Here's my neighbor right here. We got three acres, but it goes back hundreds of feet. And I just think our community looks better spread out. If you want a pole bar and different things like that, you can have it. And now it's not like, well, it's got to be the backyard and the front yard and all this other stuff. So, this may not be a a perfect solution. Um, but I think like Council Member West said, I'm going to support this. So, unless anybody has >> Good compromise. I I would just add Mike to Mike's point like this is the planning commission's recommendation. Council has final say on this. If you want to include the language to put back into the center of the road, you guys can certainly do that. Whatever you guys want to do is what will become final here. >> You can make modifications to their recommendation. >> Right. And for the developers, I honestly maybe you're a developer in here. I don't really care what your checkbook looks like. It's not a concern of mine. It's what I think is best for our communities. >> Yeah. >> So, we've thrown a lot out there. I guess I'd look for somebody to make >> I'd make a motion to approve, of course. >> So, we'll do item G and H. That's going to work for this one too as well. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I'll make a motion for G&H. >> A second. >> Motion by Council Member Tradewell. Second by Council Member Bray Johnson. This is a big thing for our city. So, is there any additional comments? No. Hearing none. All in favor indicate by saying I >> I >> opposed. Motion passes five to zero. And when does that I guess take effect? I'm assuming the people who are in the process >> it usually says effective upon publication. So we will send this to be published tomorrow. It'll be within two days, >> right? >> Yeah. >> But for those >> any new development coming forward will meet the standard. >> But like the one that I referenced that's that nothing's going to change there. It's just new ones. So >> all right. Sounds good. >> City engineer, we don't have Chuck here tonight. >> Paul, >> correct. I'm Steve Winter. I work with Chuck and up here for quite a few years and I do a lot of the things for Chuck, but there's a lot of other things as the planning and I noticed as well through MSA and all all of our groups. So, updates. The road I think is paved well. Uh they're striping it today. Um a few other little items going on. I didn't have a full report of all the other things. They're miscellaneous with Aspen Glenn. They got uh overlay. The Aspen second got paved within last month. Um and a few other minor items. And then uh this payment the the two payments we have in the agenda now is for cedar at the the state aid project. And that's mostly done miscellaneous. So we're going to become under budget on most of the items. We have a couple minor things to bring up, but we'll definitely be under total budget on that one. Um, and then the next item I guess is the mill and overlay project for >> maybe we'll talk about the first one then. No, not a problem. >> Thank you. That's what >> I'll make [clears throat] a motion to approve the pay request number one for Cedar Drive Improvements. >> Second. >> All right. Motion by Council Member West, second by Council Member Wy. All in favor indicate by saying I. >> I. Opposed. >> Motion passes five to zero. All right. Go ahead, Steve. >> Uh, in the 2026 uh overlay project went well as well under budget. Uh there was a couple items that we we held off just for the seating amounts and at this point we don't have the final documentation yet. So that just the final IC making sure they paid their subcontractors and the um they had some of them but not the final one. So it's it's ready to final out as well. >> Any questions? Final out or is the retention still? >> This is we're only paying the retention. Okay. >> The 25,000 was only the retention at this point. So everything's good. All right. >> We just don't have signatures for some of the state revenue forms to make sure they've paid their subs and the taxes. >> Motion to approve. >> I'll second. >> All right. Motion by Council Member West, second by Council Member Tradewell. >> Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor indicate by saying I. >> I. I. >> Opposed. Motion passes. 5 Z. >> Yeah. Thank you very much. >> Do you have any other updates? I'm guessing maybe not, but >> nope. Chuck is at uh APWX the National Public Works Conference this weekend. This week weekend so in Houston. >> But it's warm. >> Yeah. All right. Well, >> thank you very much. I appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Public works director Anderson. Come on up. >> Hello. >> Good evening, Mayor and Council. >> Howdy. Howdy. Uh, one thing before you tonight, our annual crack filling request. Um, it always comes in couple cents a pound within year to year. Uh, 80 just under $80,000 for this year. Um, same company as we usually have received the bid again. Uh, just asking for an approval on that. seems like it lasts as good as anybody else's. So, >> so are we budgeting to work with? >> Are we budgeting the same amount or we are we >> This was an increase from last year. We budgeted this uh line item or we increased the line item on my budget this year from I think it's 120 to 130 for overall. That's all the road stuff. Um patching, gravel, uh crack filling, mastic. We increased that and then I brought that up from 70 to 80,000 for this year. We put that additional 10,000 to crack filling this year. >> Okay. Are you within budget for all that stuff? >> Yep. >> Okay. Great. >> Just a continuation of that question. Are we budgeting enough? I mean, are we falling behind or are we staying? >> We evaluate it every year. That's why we increased it for 10,000 this year. We'll see how far we get with that for this year. Maybe next year we may have to We'll see. But you usually got to go a year or two before you can really see how it looked. Depending on how far you get. I mean, every road's different, too. Some have more cracks than others. And you find the roads that need it the most. There's a We have it on schedule, too, for once they're a certain age. You have to do them the first time. Once the cracks open up and you get enough to do and then we So we have it's kind of a mix of fresh overlays that are two to three years old or maintenance on an older neighborhood that's probably in the 10 years or so where we're at there. We're sitting where we can seem to get around three times in the 20-year life cycle of the road. [cough] Seems to be a pretty good plan right now where it's at. don't have a ton of patching and we seem to seems to be good right there. So hopefully in another hopefully our bids our prices won't go up much for the next couple years or so. It's just like I said it's always a few cents every year per pound >> not going up. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> Come on. >> Everything it's always a few cents a year. >> So >> any question other questions? I'd make a I'd make a motion to approve uh 2026135. >> Motion by council member Tradewell. There's a second. Second. Second by council member Wy. >> All in favor indicate by saying I >> opposed. Passes 5. >> All right. You got any updates? >> Oh yeah. Um we will be starting Mastic too. That's the wider the wider bands that you see see it on the county roads because you know they they do a lot of it. We've been doing that. Oh, how long's Tim been gone? Six years, seven year. Six years, seven years we've been doing that. And actually, that when you you get some of them other cracks, the bigger cracks, they get bigger thumpers, ones that really open up really wide over over the time, you know, they just they get big. Try to fill those in, seal. It's it's a longer lasting product. It's harder. It's just way more labor intensive to put down. Um I did get a bid once to actually have a contractor do it and it's like you're going to do a block and I can do a development in-house. It's just, you know, so we've been doing that for six, seven years. Had good results with it so far. Um we plan on doing another we we get about a half a semi-load of material which is about 17,000 pounds worth of material. So kind of wait till later in September when it's a little bit cooler because it's, you know, it's an all day, six, seven days straight to get that done. Um, that's also in the same budget line item is the crack filling or patching. It does seem to last a long time and [snorts] we did overlay our first neighborhood this year with it that we put down six years ago and we didn't really have any issues uh putting asphalt over top of that. So that was a good good test too to see. So we've been really happy with it. The guys like putting it down even though it's kind of a lot of work but it does last and it does stay there. And if you have certain areas where they do get more prone to potholes and you know the repeat potholes you get, you put this there, you're done. It lasts for well, we haven't had anything fall apart in the seven years we've been doing it. So, it's been holding up really well. Been happy with it. So, that'll be later in September. That's one of the things on the list. Um, crack filling will be roughly about the same time as well. They always come in in the, you know, early fall kind of time and get that done. Um, the other items have been on the list. Oh, road striping. You were talking about cost. I did get a price for my annual striping of the uh state aid roads. Um, that price has held the same for four years straight. That's the only one I get that's been the same >> price per foot. So, that that hasn't changed. So, that's nice to see. I even thanked them. So, that'll be we're on the list for that. That'll be They usually come mid to late September, early October if they get a little behind, but get that get all the yellow and white paint freshened up before winter. Um, let's see. Busy with ditch mowing, parks off and on when it rains. Um, pickle ball court. We're waiting on asphalt. It's been done for few weeks waiting. So, I'm hoping I did talk with him last week. It's not going to be Well, now we're tomorrow, September, so it won't be this week. They're hoping next week to come in and get that paved the court out here and the trail. Once that's done, we'll get the black dirt up around it and finish all the other stuff that goes along with it. Um, there is a wait time of approximately 30 days before they can apply the coating. So hopefully end of September, early October holds out with weather and they can get the coating down. So fence you can put up when it snows, but the coating you can't. So hopefully we can hopefully that'll all get done in this year yet. So um one other thing we've been kind of look there was some talk about maybe some light up speed signs. I have been looking at a few different options. I do have to purchase new state aid traffic counting devices because our old ones are no longer approved by the state aid people. They have to be I can't just take the number off the box, write it on the spreadsheet and send it in. They have you have to actually hook them to a computer now, transfer the data like that. So there's no room for transposing numbers, I guess. So, I've been really looking for um a light up speed sign that also does the traffic counting because if I have to buy something, I only want I want to buy something that has multiple uses. They don't make such a thing. So, I'm stuck back at traffic counting devices and if there's, you know, enough interest in the road count the the light up speed signs. Uh the first I'm looking at another option. The one option that I did receive numbers back on. There's to be with the the MUTC. The numbers have to be a certain size. They could be an 11inch high number or a 15inch number. Well, I like the 11 myself because they're cheaper. They're but they're about four grand a sign for those. And I you can move them around wherever you want. They come with a bracket. You bolt the bracket to the signpost. You open it up, put it on the bracket, lock the lock the sign again. So you can't you have to open the sign with a special key just to get it off the post. So they're pretty secure. Um but that I'm I've been waiting for another option. So hopefully we can come back with some more information if you'd like on a second option that's hopefully cheaper. But that's kind of where we're at with their about four grand to sign. >> Have you budgeted for something like that? >> There uh we did check with Chuck a while back if they were uh if we could use state aid funds from the sounds of it are maintenance funds and not construction funds. So the maintenance funds are my is that that's my 590 my crack fill >> mastic. I don't know if I can get it this year. I still have one road I want to finish graveling. So, that's kind of where we're at. I I don't know if I have eight grand in there when I'm done. So, so I'm looking for another cheaper option. So, it would be that or if there's another anybody else has a another idea where to if if you're interested in that [clears throat] >> might be able to send you another idea, but >> yeah, >> they can look into I have a question about trail maintenance. >> Yes. >> How you doing on that? >> This year we did up in the pines this year and that did actually come in less than we thought. Uh we had a favorable number. Um the next year a similar project, similar size footage. Uh kind of I mean we if you look at age, you look at the condition, sometimes the oldest ones aren't the worst ones. The worst ones I have right now are uh preserve okro preserve over by station two and they've been overlaid once. It's just those have there's no base under them and there's heavy soils over there. So there's a lot of movement with those. Um it would be a similar number for us to remove and sweeten up the base and then have asphalt paved. And if there depending on where that bid comes in, we could maybe couple of the shorter ones that are under 1,000 ft, we could maybe add one more to be with our trail plan. >> I was driving around just south of uh Lake George yesterday and there's a couple of tar trails there that could use a good mowing. [laughter] >> There's there's grass growing through them. >> Oh, through the cracks. Yeah, there's a couple >> there's a couple that have some pretty good cracks in them. >> Yeah. wondering if you have a schedule. >> So the the Aster drive to 209th, there's like it's like a double thug leg. >> That one that one is one of the older ones, the 2003s. That was one I would definitely like to get done first. And I do have a root problem with uh just south of 216th along County Road 9. There are some roots in one area through that where we would have to dig it out, correct the base, take care of the roots, have it paved again just north of Old Lake George Boulevard, the short chunk along there. And that one is getting some age. Um, and the other option would be to finish this complex, the part to the south here. So if because everything to the north will be new this year try to this what's it it's showing some age maybe not quite as bad as that one but right there there's a few short segments that are they're easy to fill in if once you get your main project if there's a little left we can adjust our quantities to fit the budget. So okay start with a big one and hope to add a couple small ones. So that's the plan for next year. >> I was glad we're doing it. Was that we didn't even budget for that. >> I was gonna say a couple years ago. >> A couple years ago. Yeah. >> It's like they're there but nothing's being done. And I think I know which couple of them you're talking about. They're really bad. >> It's just green. >> There's a couple >> take them out. Terrible. >> Yeah. >> So something to look at. >> Yep. Definitely. So but we're happy with our numbers we got this year. So >> roads. I wanted to um thank you Matt for being available when the community has questions. Um I called Matt I don't know a month ago there were some residents that were upset because he mowed their ditch or his team mowed their ditch and they were growing the milkeed and for the monarchs and I talked to Matt about it walked through. They asked, the community member asked if they could put something up so that they don't mow it. And I just want to advise people don't do that because it could wreck our mowers. and it's unfortunate that they mowed over it, but that's just they're doing their job and um so thank you for the information that you provided and they understood, but of course they were >> frustrated at first, but once they found out, so thank you for >> there's a there's a lot of lot of milkeed in all the parks and everywhere else sometimes to maintain the rightways, keep the brush from growing out into the into the roads, >> you got to have a little balance here. You got to get out there early and get them before you guys come mow. My granddaughter's got about 18 of them. So, >> well, they were they were just [clears throat] letting them grow all summer, you know. And >> um I mean I understand I used to raise them with my daughter. But um yeah, so thank you for >> actually seen a lot of milkweed this year and I haven't seen this many monarchs in a long time. Seen a lot. >> It's fabulous. >> So, which is good. >> Yeah. But just please don't put anything in your ditch because it'll hinder them. just causes problems >> and it's done for traffic safety. It's not like we >> Exactly. Right. >> don't have anything for them to do. So, we tell them to go right. [snorts] >> Hey Matt, >> we mold the ditches to keep all the brush down so everybody can see and doesn't >> cause sight problems. >> I might have missed it, but if might have came through or not, but are we still looking for that wide area mower and the bucket truck thing? >> We we got the wide area mower this spring. >> Yes. Yep. I thought I remember seeing that. >> What about the bucket? because I think you were looking for something. >> I I'm looking for the perfect one. >> Okay. All right. We didn't get that one >> because there's not I have not got that yet. Um we keep looking because we keep doing, you know, lights on these big four trees here. Well, it takes a certain size machine to get up that high, but is that too big for a lot of our normal maintenance? But I I've been wanting to rent one and they're they're really not available to rent. I'd like to use that size in a bucket truck that I can drive around town, set it up, trim the high trees, take it down, use it for, you know, the one sizefits-all tool that does every job that you need to do that you need a bucket truck for. I that that does is kind of a bigger unit and they're really, you know, they're they're out there at a, you know, in the in the budget that I proposed for that amount. Um, it's just I want to try one before we buy one and trying to get they're hard to find in that size for rent. They want to rent you for a month. I don't want one for a month. I just want it for a day or two just to try it out. >> You ever consider going to another city and seeing if they'd loan you one? >> They're they're they have different styles. Mhm. >> This is more of a like a two-piece boom that has a um the the the knuckle or the elbow, if you will. >> It's articulating >> is in the front. Some of them they're more to the back like this. They have multiple. There's there'll be three or four different angles that all unfold. We're looking for I was looking for one that more has like two pieces >> and then it also extends just to have maybe a little less bounce in it. The more joints you have in it, the in the arm, the more it seems to move around. Sometimes you get up there a ways and >> you may want to reach out to another city or two and see what they have. >> A lot of them have smaller ones that only go to 45 ft. >> We're in the 65 foot range for out here. >> Call Pete and Anoka. But there we give Pete a call. Has I haven't talked to Pete in about a year. >> Got it. Um give him a call and see if he can >> see what they have. >> Just want to try one out and see if it's exactly >> cuz we we use their and it's a dual articulating. We use it. Okay. >> So, all right. [clears throat] I appreciate that. >> Yep. >> I'm going to make a note. >> Very good. >> Anything else? Matt, what's going on with the uh east side of Lake George, the old uh boat launch and stuff? Anything happen on that at all? >> Was there a question of the fence >> style? >> Yeah. >> I the last I heard there was a maybe a question of the style of fence. >> I don't have a question. >> I don't know. >> I thought the rope one we're going to do was fine, but >> Well, I think uh when Pat came, he had that other idea, but I'm fine with the our original plan. >> I think we're going to be another year into this. You you won't be >> I want it done this year. It's only been going on for a few years now. But >> one borderline up. I mean, it shouldn't take this long. >> My single the single post like we have at Dunlop. >> Yeah. >> I thought there was some question about their surveyor versus our surveyor. >> Remember, >> I think they raised it initially, but I don't think they're going to fight that. Um they can if they want to, but confident in our survey. >> I would. Yeah. I think our fence should match every other park that we do. So if it's like the ones over here, do the same thing >> all up along Dunlop. >> Be consistent along there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> All we want is a boundary because we surveyed it to keep it so we keep track of the survey, you know. >> The only thing I don't let people know the only thing I don't I don't know if we talked about is there a way we can just eliminate the gate but have posts in the front wide enough for snowmobiles to go through but get rid of that ugly gate. Do >> you want? >> I don't know if we ever talked about that or not. >> I think we talked about it. I don't think we ever came to any conclusion or direction, but we could certainly >> Did anybody have a problem with that as long as they're wide enough for snowmobiles? But no, I I don't see cars. >> I don't see a problem with But that was there last night. The gate seems fine. [clears throat] Painted black. [laughter] >> Well, I think at some point we should talk about we want to tear that asphalt out of there, too. It's pretty nasty in there. Stuff falling apart. I'd like to see a place for somebody to plant uh >> milkweed. >> Milkweed. [laughter] They measure 30. >> It's such a narrow thing right on the lake. It's a good place to have a butterfly garden or whatever. Some nature thing. People always talk also about nature stuff. >> You know, you can put one bench up the top near the road. You can just sit there and enjoy the view over the lake. And >> I think that's a great idea. A bench would be great. >> More work that needs to be done before we can convert that to something else. So that should be separate discussion. at least say for this conversation match Dunlop with those posts you use whatever you feel the distance should be and I know Pat and I actually I would to appreciate the posts in the front and get rid of that ugly gate that people go and cut and do everything else with it. >> Yeah. >> 34 to 43 in wide for snowmobiles. >> Yeah. >> Make it 43 and a half. >> That seems narrow. Seems narrow. You put two on. >> Yeah. They might have to slow down. >> I'll measure my snowmobile. >> Yeah, there you go. >> Make sure I can fit. >> So, we got a consensus on that or do we need a vote or we need what do we need to do to get >> I think it's consensus. >> Sounds like one to me. >> Consensus is we want to get >> her get her done. >> Get her done. >> Yeah. Next week. >> Yeah. I don't want to be talking about it next year. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> All right. >> Anything else for Matt? >> Thanks, Matt. >> Thanks, Matt. Thank you. >> Have a good night. >> All right, Lauren. Looks like you're uh got a few items here. >> A couple items. Yeah. Uh the first item is resolution 2026-136. This is an EDA interfund loan to the Lake George water fund. You guys did approve this earlier this year. Uh and the EDA made a recommendation to approve it as well, which is you guys just in a different capacity. Uh but we didn't bring a resolution back to finalize that. So that's what this resolution is doing. Um if you remember, right, we did the utility rate study last year. Abdo did that to us. spent a couple meetings discussing that. There were some recommendations in there. Their initial recommendation was to have the Lake George sewer fund uh do an inter fund loan to Lake George water fund. You guys did reject that uh and identified the EDA as a better avenue to to do this interf. So, this just formalizes it in the resolution. >> Motion to approve >> the audit next year. >> All right. Have a motion by Council Member West. >> A second. >> Second by Council Member Brie Johnson. Any further discussion? Well, I'm going to vote against it. You all know that I do not like these interfund loans from one place to another. So, I'm going to be consistent and vote against it. >> Okay. >> Did you have a >> Well, I was just going to say, yeah, it's just we're funding back to an account because it's low because it funded to another account. >> That's our EDA account. Okay. The money. So, we're not taking it from like George or one of the I understand what Mike's saying. >> Okay. >> Um >> but this one's the EDA account, not >> right >> other >> Yeah. >> EDA account. But it says water. >> Yeah, it says Lake George water fund. So we're taking money from EDA and throwing it in the water fund. >> Well, they're borrowing money. >> They're borrowing. >> They're paying it back with via this loan. >> Okay. So, didn't their sewer fund borrow money to something? >> That is what we did. We chose not to do that. >> We chose not to. Okay. This was the alternate mainly because the EDA has a fund balance and is the funds are not >> we talked about not identified for any projects and the city actually stopped >> levying for the EDA about three or four years ago now. So you'll see on the levy there's a zero levy y >> uh proposed for the EDA again this year. >> Um since these funds were there isn't a specific use for them at this point. That's why this was recommended for the inter fun loan. >> I it's coming back. Sorry. >> Abdo originally said the Lake George sewer fund. >> Yeah. So, we didn't do that, but >> but it's still an enter. So, yeah, you're going to do what you're doing. So, >> all right. All in favor to keep by saying I >> I opposed. >> I right four to one. >> Wait, can I make that motion? >> You did. >> Council member West. >> Oh, that's right. I did. >> Second by Ray Johnson. >> I was already looking at the second one. >> You're not that old. >> I'm getting there. I'm getting there. This is where you >> all right. Number two here, Lauren. >> Uh the second one, 2026-137. Uh this is the authorization to purchase duty officer vehicles and authorize a sale of an existing vehicle. Chief is not here tonight. Uh these are two vehicles uh that the chief and public works went over and took a look at these. These are in really good shape. Uh it's a good value and they come with all of the the lights and all that. They're already wired or all that equipment is already included. that is worth uh a significant amount of money to find a vehicle that already has all that stuff installed in it. Um so 50,000 was budgeted for one. Uh but they're able to get two for that price. The chief has talked about using one of those for one of the uh duty officers so they could respond directly to certain medical calls from that vehicle to increase response time. Larger medical would still take the the rescue out and other vehicles. I know with this I mean it came within budget and I knew we were talking about two so I'm not lost there at all but I guess for some reason I thought we were replacing two. It's a good deal but my only concern is is now we're going to have to adjust the CIP moving forward because now we got another vehicle that we have to replace at some point. >> Yep. >> Yeah. That's the thing and then they're going to come due about about the same time. And so now it'll be well we want two trucks. We don't want just the one truck that we originally want. >> Well, and they're both going to come do at the exact same time, >> which is the only bad thing. >> I still think this is a good deal and especially with the lighting package and everything with it. I just think it's something that for some reason I thought we were getting rid of two vehicles, not getting rid of one and gaining one. But >> well, we don't have to adjust the CIP to have two vehicles. >> This is a one slot. >> This is a one slot, >> right? vehicles is a one slot and that's that's the way all it has to be. >> We don't have down the road have to we don't have to address this. If one goes away, it goes away. >> And we could potentially replace one of the vehicles with this too. >> At least as of now, [laughter] >> at least as of now, that's not what's proposed, but you know, we can talk to the chief about that to see if it's an option. >> Well, I know he wanted to bring the second one on. So, in his head that he's always wanted, this was just going to be that would have been there with the other one. Now what they're saying is get rid of that one and we'll bring these two in. >> It's I guess what I'm saying if you refer to this as today buying [clears throat] these two I don't have a problem with that. It's tomorrow that now we've got two we have to replace. >> Yeah, we have to be careful about that. >> And with this one we've already bought them. So we're going to have to you know that conversation I guess we have another time. But >> yeah, >> but if we're going to do that, I think we should make a little note in that CIP that so people remember because there's an election coming up. We we could have two brand new people in here that won't have a clue to what's going on here. We should have a little note saying these two are basically from the one just so they know, you know, they could go back or whatever. I mean, I just think it's going to get a lot. It's kind of like let's start a new little local tax, which was recommended by one person running for council. And I told him, I said, you're nuts. No taxes ever go away. He thought, oh, we could do that. Why would you ever want to start a new tax? >> Who? >> I don't even want to know. >> I don't want to say it here. I don't want to know. >> He ran before. >> I would say Mike, if you want to make the motion and add that language. >> Yeah, I'll make a motion to approve the uh two vehicles and stuff. I would like a little uh just a small little note pointing out that it's from the one slot that we bought two trucks. And you can word it any way you want. Just as a reminder >> for next budget season or the next one when we're going to have to do this. >> Okay. >> All right. We got a motion by council member WY, second by council member West. Any further discussion? >> Hearing none. All in favor by saying I. >> I. >> Opposed. >> Motion passes 5 Z. Have we received the trucks yet? [snorts] >> What's that? >> Are we actually received them yet? >> No. I was waiting for this motion before we cut the check and go pick them up. But we'll go get them this week. >> Yeah. What if we >> They've already replaced them, so they're they're ready to get rid of them. >> Yeah. Yeah. I thought we already had them. >> I didn't think we got them. >> They've been holding them for us. There was a lot of interest in these, but they've been holding them for us, so we'll get them this week. >> Y it was [clears throat] good value. >> Any other updates, Lauren? >> Um, the only other thing I would say is you brought it up under your announcements about the Supreme Court case >> on the uh pole pads versus paper rosters. Uh, September 8th is oral arguments before the Supreme Court. So, no decision will be made that day. Um, but hopefully we would get a decision end of September, early October, plenty of time uh before the general election in November. >> Lauren, can you tell us how much money do we have into this now? Originally, we said we weren't going to spend any city money, but I know we have because we've had a request from the county for documentation, and I know you've spent money on that. How much do we actually have into the project? I don't know what the total is, but that data request was large and it was expensive and we are going to invoice the county for as much of that as we can. Uh, but I want to say it was about 9,500 bucks um in the the data request cost to to fulfill that. >> Part of us voting for this was that that they were going to take care of all of our uh financial aspects. I think we should send it back to them, reimburse us. So you're saying we're building >> you said to you said to the county >> it should >> I mean to the legal team representing us >> requested that the county cause the city to incur these costs. I mean they could say we >> Yeah. Well either one of them I just think that we should be doing everything we can not to pay because we said that we weren't planning on >> I agree with you any deal bill on that. >> I'm just saying I I hear what you're saying. I would say I would start with the county because that's the normal way of doing it that when people come through with these big requests you can under certain statutes charge them for them >> but >> we'll [clears throat] try to as much as we can from them and then beyond that if you want me to send them to the Midwest law center I can do that as well. >> Yeah I think they should be the one they're the ones that told us we weren't going to pay anything. [clears throat] Which budget's that money coming out of? >> Uh, they were all IT related, so it' be out of the computer budget, the IT budget. >> Anything else? Um, the rest of it I can cover in the uh the building update, which is coming up next, new city hall fire station project update. >> Okay. [clears throat] All right. Um, I guess we're there under mayor council requests. >> Uh, a couple things uh related to that building is moving forward. Um, they've started painting. So, uh, mainly hallways and some of the offices. Not a lot yet. Um, but the tile work is going to be starting this week. They're starting to install windows. So, some of that finish work on the inside is starting. Uh, cabling, low voltage cabling is being installed. Um, some ceiling grid has been installed. Uh, we did get a note from the contractor today. They were telling us before that substantial completion would be on November 20th and they are looking to extend that out to >> Nope. >> They've already had plenty of time. Yeah, >> they can get the job done. It's something we'll discuss with them at the building committee week building committee meeting a couple. >> So, is this Q or is this a actual contractor [clears throat] of theirs? >> Oh, this is this was from key >> um so they had November 20th on the schedule um for all the building >> completion. Uh they are now saying they are shooting for late October, the first week of November just for the city hall side, but they are looking for additional time on the remainder of the building. Um should be basically the fire station side. So uh looks like 60 days. So that would be into the new year if that takes that long for substantial completion. >> And if we say no, >> well there's a clause on the contract. >> There's stuff in the contract. You know, this is just a request they made today. Yeah. just came in. I just wanted to update the council. >> We got better start working harder. >> Yeah. >> Any reason why they're behind? >> I mean, it's obviously not weather. Wow. >> First, please. >> We have asked for that. We've requested the information on why they need additional time and they have not responded yet. Don't have that information. >> Well, I know right now we don't know about the generator which causes an issue with being in that building. So, >> and that's not on them. That's on cat. So, >> why what's going on with that? >> They are still >> Yeah. >> Can't get it. >> Can't get it. >> Like they should have ordered a little sooner. >> There are some delays in some stuff. And they are we are still trying to get at least some sort of temporary CO to be able to hold council meetings in the uh new chambers by the end of the year, even if we're not fully moved in. >> Well, we've got elections and uh >> well, no elections are here. That's we made that decision a year ago. >> Elections are taking place in this this building >> and we made the decision here in case of that. >> Exactly. >> Schedule was too tight to make that call a year ago. So we just said this election will be in this building. >> If they need 60 days, maybe uh they get that we should delay their payment 60 days to >> Well, if there's I mean we can talk about the contract, but there's some clauses in there that afford us money every day they're late. >> Yeah, we have a contract and we'll We'll discuss it with they can negotiate that. >> Uh related to the building, there's been a handful of requests, two or three at least, about uh groups or individuals wanting to do murals in the city hall fire station building. Um that really wasn't on my radar, but we've had a few people reach out that want to do that and they want to come make presentations to the council. Um everyone from professional people that do this professionally to uh the class I think at the elementary school. >> What I have been telling them is that >> it wasn't part of the plan. You know, we're going to get the building built and that's something the council can discuss, but they're wanting to come present to the council. >> We don't know. Sometimes you see something might change your mind right now. I'll tell you what I think, but I could listen to it, but that doesn't mean we have to do anything, >> right? I I think I I would like to see what >> one of the September meetings would be would be perfect for that. We want to have a full council here. We're making those >> decisions. Sure. One of them wanted to come to the next meeting, but it sounds like we'll only have three council members. So, >> I think that's a good one for them to come to also. >> It's in October. >> I tried. >> I'd just say no. So, if you're if you guys have any interest. >> Well, there's sometimes it's very tasteful. So, I I >> I would be open to it. There's some be I mean, one of them I know is very very talented. >> So, I'd be open to it. and it's somebody that wants to donate it to our community. >> Wait till we have a full council. Yes, I think is the consensus with minus the mayor >> full council and you have a finished product because then you actually because how you going to know what wall >> well there is that I was thinking that in my head when >> but if they want to come and say this is what we'd like to do fine but I don't think we should make a decision until the building's >> absolutely not no this is just to hear you should find out who George Floyd Square >> this is just information >> yeah and basically what I've told them up to this point is that you know the city is going to wait till the building is done before they make any kind of decision on this, but they keep kind of reaching out wanting to come talk to the council about it. >> Let them come though. >> Yeah. >> I see a full council. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. In October. >> Well, I think actually they should wait till after the election and uh find out who's on the council, you know, [laughter] because anything they don't tell us, half the council won't may not see it, you know. >> Yeah. It's here nor there. It's anformational meeting. So, you know, >> but I hear what you're saying. >> Yeah. Anything else with the building or from building committee folks here? >> I was we went over there again. Um I did get asked by some folks up at the bills. I won't say any names, but they're ask they said, "Mr. Tradewell," I said, "Yes." They said, "Do you know you installed the sod upside down?" I said, "Yeah, I know. We're working on it." Did we get anywhere with that? >> It's not installed upside down, but uh >> it was a joke. >> Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know. uh we've addressed it with the contractor and the subcontractor and >> I mean it's dead >> put them on notice and you know wait till the finished product is done and make a determination >> but they know that if it's not acceptable we're not paying for it so there are cost to replace it if they have >> right over the weeds >> they have to warranty all that landscaping and all that stuff as part of the contract >> I will say that atrium um is beautiful and it's really made a big difference inside there. I don't know if you guys have been in there since they put the glass in the ceiling. >> It's very nice. >> Um, it's really opens it up and makes it nice. So, >> it's the only little feature we got. >> Yeah. Glad we did. Glad we did it. >> It's beautiful. >> But there's a lot of work to do. >> Locals did it, too, which is nice. It's money that stayed in the community. So, >> Oh, I forgot that. Yeah. >> Uh, the the garage doors on the apparatus bay will be red. So, that was a thing we went back and forth with on the contractor a few times, but uh that was decided at the last building committee meeting. So, those will be red. We'll be getting less of a display case in exchange for those red doors, but we're getting both. Project is on budget. Can't say it's on schedule anymore after that. >> In my mind, it's on schedule still. So, >> it hasn't been on schedule for a long time. >> I know. So, >> anything else with the building? >> No. All right. Uh, we have the charitable gambling >> has a question. >> Yes, sir. >> Councilman, um, I know when they started surprise. >> Perfect. >> 20321 Arrowhead Street. >> Perfect. uh state certified tree inspector, uh arborist for city of Anoka for 40 years, park board member for 35. Um, I noticed when they started doing the soding and they put in the trees down there on Bumbai City Hall and I wanted to let you guys know about two weeks ago they next to 21st it was nice and neat next to the building night nice and neat and I went by like on a Friday in the after they were done and everything in between the sod was just laid it's not even >> it was thrown in place. >> It's thrown in place. There's gaps like three inches apart. Um, it it just looks horrendous. I mean, and then the trees that are on 21st, the the Sienna Glenn maples are nice, but it looks like a boulevard instead of and there you got six trees, all the same species. So, something comes in, they're [snorts] all gone along the parking lot that goes in off of 200 first. Coming down, they put in all northern pin oaks, which are the most susceptible to oak wilt. And since 2021, we've been in a deficit for a drought. Oakwilt has just been escalating. I mean, you can see it across driving through Oak Grove. Within a week, oaks are gone. Right now, I just talked to a climatologist from the DNR about a week ago. He's talking this month, we're down to almost five inches. He's predicting that you're going to need 15 inches of rain in the next three months to take care of that deficit. >> But and that parking lot where those oaks are, that grass is totally brown. The entrance way where the perennials are planted going into the lobby, um I just stopped there tonight. The perennials are in there. There's no color in whatsoever. The irrigation tubes are there. There isn't any any drip irrigation or that hook to them. I'm thinking, why are you >> why are you doing this? I I'm bringing this to the attention because you guys are the ones that are going to sign off on it. [snorts] And Lauren and and that's a major a major >> Yeah. Lauren and Rob have been all over this and uh they have put the contractor on notice about everything you're talking >> I've never seen the sad. I mean, it's humped and it's ready to be cut, but when they cut that, it's going to look like there's going to be grass sod flying. >> Oh, it's I've never [clears throat] seen it. I' I've never seen a crew that didn't pack it with a roller or they didn't have a crew buttoning up those seams. It's I'm thinking that's a lot of money. Plus, the trees, the arborites that are along in the back. Um, Miss Councilman West will attest to this because he worked at the Anoka safety center. The same type of arborites that are there, they were fine when we first planted them, which about the same size. And after about four years, now they take hold and start going [snorts] and all the years that I worked there, we started in we trimmed them twice a year because they were so close. and we had a crew of five people shearing them, shaping them for two or three days. Your public works crew is not going to be able to >> maintain that. And typically the landscape architects plan for one/ird because everybody can't wait for that wow factor and let these plants kind of go into this thing. So they over plant and you pay for it. So there's about a third more plant material in there. But you know there's no diversity in species and that and I thought you know then you plant a red oak. >> Red oak. >> Well a northern pin oak. So the the criteria for a northern pin oak is you have to have a balanced pH of 6.5. One way or another. If it goes above seven, it develops iron chlorosis. And now you got it once a month or twice a year, you have to apply chelated iron. And we've had them in an NOA. And and we just after five or six years, we said we're not planting them. But it's just your public works. You can't you can't do it. I mean, you're going to there's some major money there. Um and I don't know if people if you've walked it. It's it's it's as John said, it's it's an eyesore. It's >> Yeah. Well, thanks for your insight, Jerry. Appreciate it. But >> I think Lauren's on top of it and >> we'll stay on top of it. >> Yes. Thanks, Jerry. >> All right. Anything else about B uh building? No. Um so, charitable gambling. I asked Lord to put this on the agenda at our last meeting and I've I've kind of gone back and forth on this a little bit, but I think it's just worth having just a discussion about it. Uh the charitable gambling, for those that don't know, pull tabs that are purchased in our city, uh the city receives 10% of that. And over the course of the years, some of the years we've given the money, there's only certain things you can do with it. we couldn't put it in there just to like reduce the levy, right? At least not directly. Um, so we've given we're able to give the money back to like sports teams and different things like that as in youth. Uh, we've done it to the uh the St. Francis Choir a couple times for them coming to our tree lighting event. Um, we used money for the fire explorers heart safe. Uh, and we've kind of done at least for a couple years we did about a third third and a third and we usually bring in around 20 25,000 a year, something like that. Um, everybody kind of has a little bit different perspective on it and that's okay. Uh, mine was give about a third away and that was a third to these youth groups, fire explorers, heart safe, oh, and our tree lighting event. Uh even though most of that if not all of it's covered by sponsors, but at least in case the sponsors don't come through, we we have it. And then again, about a third um we've used for No, correction, a third for the sports teams and that type of stuff. A third for fire explorers, heart safe, the tree lighting, and then about a third we keep for certain fire equipment uh you can purchase. A couple years ago, we decided that uh with the building and everything going on, we were just going to kind of put put this on hold. Uh however, we've continued to bring, you know, the money in uh in a roundabout way. It's a tax in a roundabout way because these organizations could keep the money if we just said we're not going to take it. Some cities um give all the money back. Some cities act like the money doesn't even exist and they just put it into some fire equipment and different things and kind of pretend it's it's not even there. Uh we've been pretty transparent about it um for all the years. Uh I was considering just saying, "Hey, let's just be done with this because the information that I had received when requested was that both of the pull tab uh places within our our city, that money is going back to our community." Well, I did learn that one of them is, but one of them still isn't. And so, with that, I'm just going to let that go. I don't even want to deal with it right now. If both of them were going to our local um, you know, community here, I might think a little different, maybe. Um, but we do have a balance. Again, we haven't spent anything for a couple of years. And Lauren, I'm not sure if this balance is even accurate. Um, let me find it here. But it was $53,220.79. >> I think you would probably have to take uh the two budgets for the Explorers and Hearts Safe. I don't know if Abdo's made that journal entry to transfer those yet. So, you could say maybe take 9,000 or I'm sorry. >> So, the >> Yeah, about 9,000. So, you know, for there's probably 40 44,000, >> right? Then my next question is going to be we did account for and I don't remember what the dollar amount was 10 15,000 something like that for fire equipment for 2026 but has that been taken from here yet? >> No I don't think so yet. >> So it's kind of a two-parter. This is why I get frustrated with ABDO too because I get this number in front of me which really doesn't mean anything >> and this isn't the first time with them either. Um, but with this I'm thinking for for the the balance here. And is it fair to say there's 30 30,000 in here, Lauren? >> 25. >> Yeah, I'm comfortable saying there's that in there. That's, you know, we're getting about 20 25,000 a year. >> And I know we were trying to kind of keep a balance of 10,000 just in case some something ever ever comes of it. So, you know, we've got 20,000, I guess you could say. Uh, my thought is on the fire explorers. I know that they're requesting that on here. Hold on a second. For 2020, where's 27 on here? No. Okay. So for 2026 their budget was 5,500 and for hearts safe it was 3600. Um there's still some remaining for fire explorers and clearly there's some for heart safe. I would like to at least you know we agreed to 2026 so we agreed to 2026 but I think for 2027 this should be 3500 each. Um the explorers, I'm not against the explorers, but every other explorer group out there has to fund raise, buy their own uniforms, and we're just like just, you know, have whatever. I think it's fair the fees, the annual fees and all those other things. Fine. I guess if we want to have the explorers, we should at least cover that part. But, um, I'm looking at that more for 2027. And I think the the rest of this uh 10 15,000ish if we could figure out what that dollar amount is, I think we should just take that and move it right into that firet truck purchase to help the CIP for 2026. Ultimately, it helps the CIP all around. >> Um but if we vote on it now for the transfer, it's going to affect it for >> for this year. So whatever we decide to do moving forward, a third, third, and a third or zero or all of it or whatever, I think at least looking at the fire explorers so they can plan for 2027 and heart safe, they can plan for 2027. I think we're always going to know we're probably always going to get at least $7,000 >> and then the remainder of it, I guess the council can decide at that point. But I think just if Carrie could get us what that actual number is with a balance of 10,000, I think the rest of that should just go pay for the fire truck. >> I agree with uh what what you're doing there and I agree that I'm glad you changed your mind about uh getting rid of it because I think it's a valuable tool for all the reasons that you mentioned uh what we do with that money and I you know it does fire a lot of good. It's done some community members a lot of good. I think it's a valuable tool that we can use in the budget process and it helps the community. So, I'm glad that you're not for uh getting rid of it because I wasn't. I want to use this uh going forward the same way you've used it for the last four years. So, >> and kind of for for the record, the reason why I even was considering it >> well because of the two groups not spending in the community. I get that. No, it's part of it is that some cities have it set up that if you have like a 10-year-old going door to door selling raffle tickets to the neighbors or their grandparents, 10% of that has to come to the city. And I would say >> if that's what the statute says, fine, we'll take your 500. Here's your 500 right back. So these young kids aren't out the money. >> But that's not that's not what we do here. So let's be clear, that's not what's happening here. >> I just want to make sure it doesn't get to >> get there. Yeah. And I don't think it will with the people that get elected to this dis. I I think um >> most of us up here, all of us uh have that attitude. We're not here to tax the the people. We're not a profit center. >> Um we you know the taxes that we incur are there to help the community and and uh do the the vital things that we need. Police, fire, uh public works, administration. So, >> so is the consensus for the the group if Lauren by the next meeting could figure out what that number is, 10,000, 15,000, whatever it happens to be that we could then transfer that to the CIP to pay for at least a portion of the fire truck. Is that anybody against that? >> When you say fire truck, you're talking about the >> these two. I just want to be clear. >> Yeah. >> Anybody not against or No, I I'm in favor of it all going towards fire. Um, I've said that from the beginning. I've actually voted against some of the other giveaways because I felt that >> by giving it to FIRE, we alleviate taxes on the people. Um, and though everybody that pays taxes in this community that >> um so I just thought it was actually a better way to do it that way, but so I'm 100% behind. >> So that's consensus. Okay, >> we can get that. >> Some might not be at that meeting, but it sounds like everybody's in favor of that anyways. So >> yeah. Yeah, you won't get any kickback after the meeting then next week. >> At least we know >> we'll speak on your behalf, >> right? And then that should hopefully Abdo can have it all balanced out so we know what number we're actually looking at. >> If they haven't transferred those yet, I will make sure that they do that before I >> Yeah, because we will still have to vote on the preliminary without you. Next meeting. >> Yeah, without them. >> And you guys are fine with what we had said. >> Yeah. And I know I had mentioned that we would we're basically to the end here, but I think we should take even just a few minutes and talk about the budget since a couple of you won't be here just so we're all feeling pretty good about it. >> Yes. And I but I want to say this first. I am a little concerned that we are talking about budget numbers, but we don't have the actual numbers when we're talking about it. I mean, it seems like uh a few times when we're talking about what these numbers are that they're not really not everything's been taken out of those numbers. and I'd like to have up-to-date numbers when they're, you know, giving us a presentation that it is exactly what it is. Is that not possible? >> It's absolutely possible. The numbers you were provided tonight were the up-to-date numbers. There were some discussions of the council that changed what those numbers are going to be. You know, Weston just proposed tonight using some of those excess uh funds from last year to lower the levy. You know, that was just presented in the meeting. So, we of course we did have those updated numbers, but we'll get you those tomorrow. >> Okay. Um [clears throat] maybe we could just go through it here real quick. If we look at just the actual summary, is there anybody I'm just going to kind of go down the list here real quick and see if there's anything that somebody wants to talk more about or disagrees with. The 3% cola. Anybody got any problems with that? That's pretty standard. The insurance, the 80% for single, 70% for family. Um, fire chief, I know that's going from part-time to full-time. >> Yes, I I have some objections. >> And that's prorated in the budget, wasn't it? It wasn't a whole 120 for next [clears throat] year. >> It is the whole 120 for next year, but we have a pending grant application that would pay >> for the three year >> for three years. But, you know, we have not been awarded that. I don't think we'll know the results of that until sometime later in September. So, as it stands, we have put the full amount into the budget, but that could change if we get that granted. >> So, the numbers are correct in what they're reflecting that that number is in there. >> Yes. >> And I think the partial back was because we're already paying part-time to a chief. So, that gets credited back. So, it ain't the full hit this year. >> A full hit because we were already budgeting for a part-time chief. and they've adjusted the other we're we're always adjusting the fire department budget for wages based on call volume and stuff. So, we try to get it as close to we can as actual. It's in really good shape these days. So, Carrie said there was some additional savings there by reducing those a little bit and >> their wages reduced. It's just based on the call volume and the hours. >> And if we don't hire one till like June, obviously we're not going to spend that money next year right away. I mean it doesn't retroactive >> incurring the cost until you start incurring the cost. >> Yep. >> Yep. We've done that with other items. A police contract is a good example of that. We started that in April instead of January 1st. We've done it with other hires, you know, many times. >> Mike had some >> Oh, I I already said it. We don't know anything about whether the grants approved and I >> I don't know that I'm ready. I haven't been convinced that we definitely need a full-time fire chief. I haven't been convinced we don't need one either. I I haven't had any I don't know what they do, how much of it they do. I've talked to some of the people council here before meetings. Um you know, we're going from part-time to full-time. Now, I know Rob's had a busy year, of course, because of the building and stuff, right? Maybe three quarter time, maybe it's not. I don't know. I think we could have a lot more discussion on that and why we need to go to full-time, how much it's going to cost, the benefits, all that type of stuff. Um, and having that grant makes a big difference on on where we fall in that, I believe. >> So, yeah, I mean, where I'm at with it is I'm not trying to get like a yes or no from people right now, but if it's like the consensus is like no way, well, the next meeting we're voting on the preliminary levy, then I'd rather not include it. So right now I'm saying if we think there's a chance then we might as well include it. We still have a couple more months to talk about. >> Yeah. I think there's we we need to consider that because if you know next year he decides to be gone, we need we need to be able to be planning for that >> and not just be stuck. So >> I say we plan for if it doesn't happen, great. >> There's like Mike said, there's it's a bigger conversation to be had yet. >> A lot bigger, I think. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But for now, the number can stay, right? Because again, we can go down, >> right? >> We can, >> right? All I'm saying is if everybody was like, "No way, we don't want this." Then why are we why are we >> We need more information. >> So none of this I'm like saying, "Hey, you agreed to this. This is what you know, it's just more to try to set us up for the next meeting and know that we're all kind of where we're at." And then I think the rest of this stuff, the only one I had a question on, Lauren, was that park and um parks and park maintenance >> because it looks like it's more like public works is getting $34,000 increase and roundabout way. They're getting another 41,000. I know that's not the case, but if she could figure out what that actual number is, >> I had one thing. >> Yes, sir. >> So, hopefully we can leave the gopher feet there for now, but um maybe discuss making that more um I don't know what you would call it, but something so it's just for youth. Um you know, you got to be under the age of 18 to participate in or whatever. The whole reason I keep fighting for it is I remember growing up in Oak Grove. I I've lived here all my life but four years. And I we would get up at 5:30 in the morning before school and go trap golfers. And then of course every couple weeks you'd bring your goal feet up and you get a couple bucks and you run to Tom Thumb and you go and pick up some pop and Bub's daddy and you know life was good. I I want to give that experience back to kids or if the neighbor's got some gophers in his yard and the kid not only gets paid from the neighbor but if he's if he cuts the feet and freezes them and brings it up. So, >> the gophers are getting today is on a screen. That's it. They're not going out in a yard. >> Yes, they are. >> They're if if you get two kids out in a year, it's worth it's budgeted for like $400 and they want to cut it to 200. >> I do 500 budget for more, but we cap it at 500. >> Yeah, we cap it at five. Yeah. >> I think 1,500 was the budget, wasn't it? >> No. Well, it used to be. >> Used to be. >> You guys did reduce it and then you capped it. So, I'm just trying to keep it around for the kids. If you think I'm stupid, tell me and I'll I'll drop it. But >> I think it's a great idea. >> It's just something. Most time the money just goes back in the general fund anyways if if you don't. But evidently over the last couple years or so, we've had some things happened that made us go, you know what, the intent was never um you know, for someone to uh >> for me to bring a gopher feed >> for for Yeah. the mayor to bring them in. It was for around your kids. >> I will say we don't see very many kids bringing gopher feet in anymore. >> Nope. But if we put an age limit like through 16 or something like that, this is for the youth. It's a you what was the name of the thing you said? It could be maybe called a u not charitable, but um >> I I'm saying I I could buy into what you're talking about. I just have a hard time when I see the expenses for the city and it's, you know, some guy or a gal who's in their 30, 40s or 50s coming in here and wanting $50 worth of gopher feet. I'm like, it's silly. But I could I could buy it for $5. I could buy it. >> Could be their only source of income. >> So, who's counting the feet at the counter? >> Whoever happens to wait on the person bringing them in. >> And you do take them, right? Don't give them back. >> Oh, yeah. We take them. Okay. Yeah, we take them. >> No, you can always limit how much one any one individual can collect, too. >> You could do that, too. Yeah. So, anyways, we'll work on it. Make it better. >> That would keep anybody that's uh playing a game from >> making it worth their time >> because that was the whole intent. That's why I fight for it is is thinking of the kids. So, >> okay. Can you just be the council member Paul Tradewell Youth Project? >> There you go. >> Sounds like it. >> You trying to make fun of me? >> No. >> Okay. [snorts] >> Go for me asked me for us to keep it too, you know. >> Yep. >> Well, they want to keep it, but then they want their taxes lower, too. So, not that 500. >> I don't think 500's going to help. Maybe a penny. >> It's the same folks. >> I know a penny. >> You have a lot of them. It adds up. >> Spend more than that just talking about it. There you go. >> Not at your salary. No. >> All right. Um, so I I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but I think we are talking about >> Lauren's going to come back with the it's like 187,000 or whatever of that 356,000. The remainder up to the 200,000, so it's 12,000, whatever, is going to go for the60 comp plan, >> right? That will put us at a max of 2.5% levy increase and that will give a remainder 156448 for next year to soften it or to put it into the CIP which ultimately softens the next year and that's where we'll probably set it and we can always go down. We just can't go up and that will be at the next meeting. >> Yes. >> Does that seem all right? >> Sounds right to me. So what that equate to 2.5 the taxes are actually going to go down at that rate. >> Tax rate is going down >> so long as an NOA county doesn't increase your value. >> Well no county the schools >> in the schools and the school district is going to be doing one of their tricky little not levy but just >> cashing in again. >> So >> Oh >> again >> that's cool. >> We can only control the city portion of this. >> Our portion was five times the city portion last year. >> Last time >> and it's going to be more this this time. Somebody's been educating properly because I've had a couple people come up and they say taxes are up, but I know it's not the city. It's like that's exactly right. >> Well, you can read it. I mean, look right at it. >> Yeah. Oh, I've had a lot of people ask me, write this down. You know, ours is the >> last year, too. There were some that went up a few dollars. Um, >> value is one >> for the city portion, but it was the county and the school that kicked our >> but >> Yes, ma'am. >> Um, I did have a question. I talked to John about a little bit too on page 11 and 12 of um her breakdown here of the memorandum. Um it's which I asked a little bit earlier. I guess I would I just question how between the planning and zoning um professional services and engineering fees how MSA is only budgeted 63,000. It seems like it would be much more than that. >> Yeah. I mean they also do inspections on private development projects on the city's road improvement projects. Those are all coming out of those funds to pay for those costs. The private development ones are all part of development agreements where the developer pays for those. Okay. To get invoice for it, yes. But we are using their escrow and money that they've given us to pay those costs. >> Okay. So, it's broke down in other areas, not just those two because those two it would be 63, which just doesn't seem enough. >> I guess probably what she said >> MSA is not a line item in the budget. I guess start there like but I could I could get >> know what the contract number is, right? What they're spending or what we're what they're making a year. >> Yes, we can certainly tell you what that is and have to break it down further and like how much of this is >> charged back to applicants for review of their applications. Quite a bit of it. >> Okay. >> How much of that like the Cedar Drive the Cedar, you know, you made a payment tonight on the Cedar Drive project. That whole project we are using our MSA uh state aid construction dollars. All those costs are reimbursed directly from the state. So any engineering costs that we incur from MSA are reimbursed by the state. So okay >> yeah the amount is more but you know some of those many of those are reimbursed through applicants. >> Okay that makes sense. Thank you for clarifying that. >> I think it'd be a good exercise to see those numbers. You know what are they pulling in? What are they paying back? Be nice to know. I mean, we are going to be looking at contracts uh within the next couple of years at a minimum. >> So, it would be nice to see that. Sure. Not to put any more things on your plate. >> Uh anything else related to the budget? >> Yeah, I've got one. >> Yep. I would like to see us go back to the old uh payment for the mayor and the planning chair that was increased last year where they get automatic pay raises every year for cost of living. Nobody else on either commission gets those and that's not the point. The point is I just think they should stay frozen at that one number that we originally had for those positions. I know it's not much money but just bugs me. I was against that uh when we did it and uh I would like to see that report back. >> So you're talking like just the cola for the commissions. Is that what you're saying? >> Not for the commissions. Remember we gave the extra money for the mayor and the planning commission and stuff. Did that go? >> Just planning and just parks. >> Okay. So they still had 75. We still have to tell them what we want to do if we wanted to change that. >> Right. The parks and the planning then get the coal to get the extra. But just on the uh the leadership positions that right >> they all get it every year. >> Is that right, Lauren? >> So like $100 to $103. >> Yeah. Right. It's it's not much. I was under the impression from that uh meeting that it was just the chairs of those commissions. >> Yeah. Because I remember John, you abstained from voting. >> Yeah. It was for the lea. We were talking about the liaison position. >> No, we didn't get the leazison change. The chairs get $25 more. >> Yes, >> the chair. >> Yeah, the chairs. >> But it wasn't one was getting a raise and the other wasn't. >> So, they're not getting cost of living raises. >> I I have to verify that. But if one is getting it, they're all getting it. If that's the way it was set up, it wasn't just for the chair to get it. It was for >> Okay. I'd like you to verify that because I thought it was uh >> the difference was the chair was getting a little bit more for those. Okay. >> Right. But if there was a cost of living, it was for all, not just >> I can tell you how it is. Doesn't mean it can't be changed, but the chair of the planning and the chair of parks gets 125 a month and then the commissioners get 100 and then it was set up that whatever staff received for a cola they would receive. So again, if you're they're at 100 now, >> but they all get it, not just the part I want to be, >> but that has nothing to do with us and that's what we vote. >> No, I know it has nothing Well, it does have to do with us because we're doing the budget. >> But what I'm saying is >> that's why I'm talking about it. It doesn't have to do with our pay is what? >> No, no. I Yeah, I thought the mayor also was was in that motion, too. Okay. So, it's just those two, >> but my my point was for just the leadership, the top person to be getting the extra money every month without everybody else getting it and stuff. >> So, you're saying that everybody's getting the same increase and stuff. Okay. >> Of the commissions. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Uh, anything else? >> No, that was it. All right. Uh updates. Anyone have any updates? >> I do. >> Um went to nights unite. I don't think we've had a meeting since we uh had nights unite. I think so because that was the first week of August, right? Yeah. >> Last meeting was uh July 27th. >> Yeah. Okay. So, um it was great. There was I 10 or 12 parties in the city and some new ones. So, it was great to see new neighborhoods hosting 19I parties and there was a couple that we haven't gone to in the past or we have gone to that didn't host this year um but some new ones. So, it was great to see and there was a lot of people at them. So, um that's that's what I wanted to say. It was great to see the neighborhoods getting together and meeting new people. And >> yeah, I went to a new one that my mom's been gone for over 30 years. And the lady that was there, the neighbor, she heard my last name and she said, "Did you have a mom that bowled and they used to bowl at Patriot in St. Francis?" Gosh. >> And then she knew all our neighbors because they all bowled together. And yeah, it was it was hilarious. And then the person hosting's daughter went to school with my u oldest son. So it was like a reunion of people I didn't even know but I knew. So yeah, it was it was a lot of fun. So >> it was >> Yeah, >> it was. >> Anything else? >> Nope. Thank you. >> Only that I will not be in attendance for the September meetings. That was it. >> Not even a dial in >> work. No, I can't. have scheduled scheduled stuff for both those evenings. >> I bet you do. >> I do. >> I did just want to answer council member Wley's question. That cola would be for all commissioners, not just the chairs. >> Okay. >> Yep. Starting in 2027. >> Okay. Thanks. >> I don't know if that's in the budget. So, I will >> that's 27. That wasn't in 26. I thought it was last year. >> We passed it. Um effective January 20 advisory commission's monthly stipen shall increase annually beginning in 2027. Okay. by the same cost of living adjustment if city employees are granted one. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Thanks. >> You're welcome. >> No, I don't really have much outside of it. I know I mentioned it earlier earlier in the meeting about attending the school board. Uh at the time I thought they'd get up and say some stuff. [clears throat] Um it was a good meeting. um the message back to us. Even though we weren't able to improve turn lanes and all that on Cedar in front of the elementary or preschool, they appreciated that we attempted uh to look into it. And then the whole um is there a chance that there could be um like a bus lane over the railroad tracks for safety that the county is going to look at when they're redoing that? They appreciated that we were talking about that, too. So, um, good meeting overall, but that's about that. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Oh, go ahead. I'm done. >> Um, okay, if you're done. This man out here, Lee Ostrom, he is um who took the president position for the cemetery. So, I just wanted to introduce [clears throat] you guys to him and >> let you know how grateful we are for you. So, thank you. >> Thank you. >> So, that's who it is. >> Good to know. Good to know. >> Yes. >> All right. Well, There's a few people in the audience running for office here. Appreciate you all coming and getting involved and learning. And >> uh with that, our next uh meeting will be on September September 14th at 6 PM and there's no work session, right? >> No, no work session. >> Okay. But we will be voting on the preliminary uh levy for 2027. So with that, I'd look for a motion to adjurnn. >> Motion to second. Council member Wy, second by council member Bray Johnson. All in favor indicate by saying I. I. >> Opposed? >> I. >> Meeting is over.