Welcome to our uh second budget work session dated August 31st, 2026. Um Lord, do you want to take roll call? >> Sure. Uh council member Wy >> present. [clears throat] >> Council member Tradewell >> here. >> Mayor Rolf >> here. >> Council member West >> present. >> Council member Bray Johnson >> here. >> Thank you. >> All right. Well, we only have about 30 minutes, but to allow for a couple minutes in between, I'll try to wrap it up by 5:55. So, we have a few minutes. So, with that, I don't know if you want to start, Carrie. Yes, my presentation's not working. Um, but let me just get started. I did send it to Lauren, so we'll see if we can get that up and running. But, um, taking a look at the preliminary t budget and tax levy. Tonight, we are on the 2027 budget calendar. Tonight is our second meeting. Here we go. I'm on that second slide. So tonight you can see in the yellow highlight we are on the second budget work session. We are scheduled as we talked about um to adopt the preliminary tax levy and budget next council meeting on September 14th. It is required by statute that we approve the preliminary levy by September 28th. And so that allows us to ensure that we can meet that deadline. If we look at the next couple slides going forward, these are the changes since our last meeting that we have already implemented in the budget that was in your budget memo that you received in the packet. We updated health insurance premiums because we were able to get the most current um 2027 premiums for employees. We the charitable gambling contribution to cover the hearts safe and explorers program. We increased cell phone costs just slightly properly classified administrative part-time employee wages to the part-time code. We had her included in the full-time code. So Lauren cut that. We moved that out. We did remove the granicus cost because you are moving to YouTube for your public meetings in the new building next year. We did also reduce the election budget just by a couple thousand to more accurately reflect our projection for the 2028 election costs. As you remember, we budget half each year so that we have a flat budgeting on that. And we [clears throat] did update the NOA County capacity because we got those preliminary tax capacity in. So then the next slide um just I'll run through these really quick that right now the general fund property tax levy has an increase of 8%. Overall property tax levy has an increase of 304,000 at 6 and a half%. Other budget our revenues are budgeted conservatively as we usually try to do. Looking at expenditures again, budgeted 3% cost of living and then added the full-time fire plus benefit. [clears throat] A lot of these are pretty similar and I know you read through those in the memo. Um, [snorts] administrative costs increase due to the insurance cost to the new building. We did an [clears throat] estimate for that. We're still waiting for some final numbers on that. Um but as you can imagine that's a significant increase. Planning and zoning has um an incre has a decrease due to the comprehensive plan. We had budgeted that full 50,000 for 2026. Computer services those decreased by 42,000 because we did budget computer and server replacements for 2026. [clears throat] That will be all taken care of this year. Then police services again we have the 50,000 increase due to the NOA county contract. The fire management net increase to fire management is around 32,000 because we have that full-time fire chief but we also partially offset by lower part-time salaries because you now have a full-time fire chief. And just looking at more of the actuals there. Public works increased by 34,000 mainly due to the higher cost and supply costs and you're going to have some of those wages in there. Also, park and parks maintenance um 41,000 due to the staff cost reallocation because [clears throat] we're we're trying to match more to [cough] allocation. >> Can I just just while we're on that one, I just have [clears throat] one question that some of us may have. So, where is that money coming from? public works is going to have a little bit of a decrease and then also your enterprise funds. >> Okay. >> So, we were allocating those [clears throat] out based on a pro rate just on an allocation. But then when we do payroll, those are charged directly by what the employee is spending their time on. And so we found that the budgets were there was a variance between the actuals and the budget. >> So would it be fair to then [clears throat] that technically public works is having more than a $34,000 increase because this money is an in it's got one increase for 34 and change and then another increase for 41 and change >> but your enterprise funds are going to take some of that also >> got a ballpark half >> I don't >> I mean I don't want I don't want to get you stuck on that we can move on but >> okay and I can get that information to you Mr. No, go ahead. Sorry. >> All right, we can keep going. So then this is the CIP. Um, these are the items that we have budgeted with and I know that we've covered these. There's really no change here. We go to the next slide. We have a total CIP of 2.2 million. The majority of that is the pumper truck. there. [clears throat] Um, and then I kind of wanted to focus on the next. This is a summary of your property tax levy. So, this you can see the different funds and your levies in comparison to the 25 and the 26 levy. There you see the $34,000 increase at 6 and a half%. That just basically breaks it down by fun. If you look at the next slide, here is the tax rate levy and the tax rate. How this [clears throat] translate into your levy to your taxpayers. So here you can see the tax capacity that very first line you had a [clears throat] significant increase in your tax capacity. Um Anoka County is saying that they're seeing larger increases in tax capacity in the rural cities. Um, so you are one of the higher increases to your tax capacity, which really what it does is allows you to take your levy and spread that out amongst a larger tax value. That doesn't mean that somebody's house didn't increase in value and they have a portion of that increase, but a portion of that could also be new homes, any new commercial things like that that [clears throat] your tax base. So that's really good news for the city of Oakrove. So then that allows you to basically [snorts] even though you have a large an increase [clears throat] to your levy, you have an actual decrease of 0 2% in your levy. So if we go to the next because your tax break calculations are your local levy divided by your tax capacity just to kind of simplify that down to a easy calculation. [clears throat] Here is just a graph of the general fund revenue trends. I won't spend a lot of time here because I want to allow for enough time for us for conversation and I know that you've received all this in your memo. Um and then the next screen the next couple screens are your general fund [clears throat] expenditures. This is by the purpose your general government public works public safety. And then the next screen next line shows you the actual her mental breakdown [clears throat] and I believe that is >> all right I'll open it up to questions [clears throat and cough] >> so computer services on the first couple of slides did you say that was decreased >> the computer services for 2026 for 27 decreased [clears throat] >> mhm Is that because we're putting new servers and stuff into the soft cost for the new build? >> We were [clears throat] the server cost was budgeted for this year. >> Okay. >> Um we potentially could use soft cost to pay for that. It was something we needed whether we were moving into the new building or not. >> Yeah, because it was $42,000, right? >> No, it wasn't that much. >> Well, that's a total for the department. >> Okay. >> Yeah, >> it was in the 20s, I think. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I think we should think about that. If we're going to be, you know, moving to the new building, why wouldn't we just include that in the soft costs? But I mean, your thoughts on that. We're going have to do it anyway, >> right? >> Saves us. >> It seems like comes from there. >> Yeah. >> Well, it'll save us on this year's budget for this year, not next year, >> right? >> I uh I guess I have a couple comments. Does anybody have actually any questions? >> I have one. >> Yeah. Um, on one of those screens you showed [clears throat] what was what you we were planning on putting in to like the 411 412 account. Um, public safety and public works. I thought I saw 50, but on this sheet it says 100. So, I was just curious >> if that changed and why it changed. >> Was I reading it wrong? Where did I see it? >> That's that's the increase. So, we're looking at the proposal. >> Got it. Yep. So, I was I was looking in the wrong place. Thank you. >> Yep. >> I just wanted to make sure. >> That's an easy question. >> Hey, those. [clears throat] >> Yeah. Well, there's a lot of numbers up there. So, >> yes, exactly. >> Go ahead. >> Um, all right. I guess just to jump into this because we don't have a ton of time. I kind of have an idea here. I'm trying to see if there's any what [clears throat] level of interest there is from the council here. The 8.4, four, 6.5, whatever way you want to look at that. I I'm not saying this is what we should do, but I would like to see it zero. And we can actually get to zero, but I also feel like that's kind of playing a game, and I don't want to do that either. So, if you could go trying slide at the one that has like the actual dollar amount, Carrie or Lauren, I think it was back a couple slides. No. Back a little more. Another one. Another one. Went the wrong way. >> Is that this one? >> Showed like the total increase was like 300 some >> on the the bottom of the fourth. >> Yep. The 304 there. >> Yep. >> So, we could actually do zero. I'm not saying that we should, but I just want to explain. Last year we had, which I brought this up a couple times. Most of you probably remember we had >> additional revenue that came in that we didn't spend of $356,448 >> right there. That could wipe them out completely. Now, the problem is going to be is next year, right? if we're not actually like cutting things. But I also have a hard time looking at the residents and saying, "Well, we have $350,000 here that I'm not really sure what we should do with, but we're going [clears throat] to increase your taxes anyways." Now, one can say the tax rate is down, which it is, but the value of your home is up. So, what does that actually look like? If we were to take it's actually less than what was that Lord 187,000 188 if we were to take that from this 356 and put that into this it brings the levy increase up to 2 and a.5% which significantly then brings the tax rate down. I think we take that remainder just for simple math here, the 188 to 200, the $12,000. We put that aside for the 2060, not 2050, 2060 comp plan because we know it's going to be money. And it's the one thing that I can, and when I mean money, I mean real money. And it's the one thing that I I didn't see in here. I really like the elections what we did that now we just budget every year. So it's not way up and way down and way up and way down. And that gives in a a remainder of $156,448 to [clears throat] help assist with this next year. So it's not this big up and down because the mistake I made in the 2018 when Mayor Denno was here, that was going to be a year we're going to have this big increase. And I didn't like it. Nobody up here liked it. Then we had $463,000. I said, "Let's take that money and put it on the levy," which if you look at that graph that shows the the tax rate, it went way down and everybody was happy. And then it was like, >> "Oh, shoot. Now we're going way up." And then, of course, me as my first year as mayor and a couple other people up here, it was like, "You guys have no idea what's going on." Well, had we just saved the money and waited a year, it wouldn't have had this up and down thing. But on the But again, I go back to how do we [clears throat] have this increase when we have the money sitting here? not earmarked for anything. Uh but again, that remainder 150,000 could help soften the blow for the next year's budget. Or the only area what I'm looking at with the CIP and I'm taking Carrie with Abdo's experience, maybe that just is added money that gets put into the fire CIP. Um and maybe that can help offset that for next year. We also got a grant for $300,000 this year for the air tanks. And a few years back, some of you might remember, some of you may not. I tried not to make a big deal about it, but 300,000 in the CIP, we kind of lightly earmarked for those air packs. So now we've also got the air packs. Carrie feels confident with the dollar amounts for the CIP. For those of you that don't know, that's like a savings account for fire and public works and so on and so forth. I think we can actually get to that and have a very minimal increase. Even if it is an increase, it might actually be a decrease. And it shows that we're doing something with this money versus just leaving it there for a rainy day. Um, I would agree to that if that includes the full-time fire chief. Um, I would agree to the two and a half or anything less. Anything over two and a half for me is going to be hard when there's still going to be 50,000 plus to help soften the blow for the 2028 budget. I could go on and on, but I want everybody to have a chance. Well, [clears throat] you know, I've been doing a lot of work with charts. >> [clears throat] >> The one thing I'm noticing is if we only do 100,000 this year and we did two and a quarter for two years after that, 250 after that and 275 which is only looking out six years, we'll already be at a negative when we spend theund 1.1 million on the next big fire truck if you're taking inflation into account. Now it's not much goes negative about $76,000, but I really think that should be at 200 at least. It keeps it around the same dollar amount for the next couple years. And otherwise, next year what it's going to be is we're going to have to save three and a quarter. So, we're going to go from 100 to three and a quarter just to get back on track again. >> But you could put that 150,000. >> So, you're I was saying you're as mayor elect coming, would you like to have that in there? >> Of course. I I was going to agree with Weston as well. if we can use that as a a little cushion on the next >> and I guess we could do that the next year. >> And the CIP is important. We need to stay on top of that to make sure that we're not in the hole. >> I wasn't totally ready. So I just but I am tracking as and I type in the numbers and I can see it does and that's where it went into the red and it's less than six years out and you told me go 10. So it uh >> like I say, I'd love to go all zero, but that's not the right thing for the city in the long run. So >> no, I think the 2, what is it? 95 2.5. I think I'd be I'd be fine with that. >> Yeah. >> And then putting the extra in. But >> anything, Mike? Any thoughts? >> Uh, you know, I'm I'm fine either way. I just think uh we should use up any money we have. Basically, the taxpayers that are paying now are the ones that put this money into the account. Yep. >> So, if you stretch it out, say you stretched out 10 years, that mean [clears throat and cough] >> everybody that put into it might be gone. And now some other people that moved in benefit from what we did 10 years earlier, you know, and that's not fair to overt tax now and then and go that route. So, I would say that we should use it up as quick as possible. But >> I think we need to start concentrating more on u cuts and stuff and looking at some of that stuff, too. We talk every week, every meeting we have something like this and kind of run through real quick um on how to kind of move some of this money around, but we don't get to the brass tax of what can we cut if anything. You know, we don't really look at we kind of blew I saw some stuff earlier on here, but she we went through it so fast and n we didn't stop for questions. So, I'd have to look at it all over again from the beginning now and uh come up with some cool questions and stuff. I think that's something we should do at a work session at some point is look at what we can uh start to cut >> before we even figure out what percentages and stuff because that might drop it even more. We don't know. But I think the basic >> should be to limit how much we're spending in the first place the best we can. >> Once we're satisfied with that, then we can start worrying about >> Yeah. >> what our levy will be. >> Um I like what you come up with with the two and a half%. Um I don't think that we need to of everything that [clears throat] community is giving. So yeah, I think it's a great idea. >> Yeah, like I say, when I go back to that 201819, [clears throat] this is what I wish we would have come up with is something that helped that year and helped this year. So it wasn't that big dip and then it was way up like these people have no idea what they're doing. >> But it looked like we didn't have any idea what we were doing is because we brought the taxes down so far the year before with the revenue. But we've also done this with the public safety aid money too when we've when we've had it to help try to offset things. But I I think we all agree with Mike. It'd be better to have more time to go through it. But if we have to have the preliminary budget voted on by the next meeting, we might just have to talk about this a little bit at the council meeting today. >> Well, and we can set it now. If we're looking for cuts, we can always go lower. >> Yeah. So, whatever we set the preliminary at, >> but I guess what I'm saying is >> can't go higher. >> 2.5% [clears throat] levy increase with that 188 going in there and then we can always try to work at it going down before the end of the year, but at least go up. >> So, again, I mean, we can go through all this stuff. The other thing I thought about, and I know we're going to talk about it more, I think in our next meeting, I'm getting two a little confused here. The two fire trucks that >> [clears throat] >> And I don't mean the 1.2 million. I mean the $25,000 firet truck that maybe one of those could be purchased with the gambling donations which would again would take 25,000 less out of a CIP which again would help in the near future. So but we probably should had an hour meeting tonight. >> I suggested that at the last meeting if you remember that >> I [laughter] I >> you guys didn't want to have an hour. >> Oh, I don't think it was me. >> Yeah. So, box of tape, but I think we can >> I will >> I I don't know if we need Carrie to stay or not. I think we can just talk more about it. But is there anything we still have a few minutes that you want to direct questions to Carrie with any of this or >> I don't or I don't know if it's something that you could send Lauren like an updated document of just that the 187 and whatever it is to get to the 2 and a half and then taking that remainder 12,000 whatever and put it for the60 comp plan. Again, we can always change it, but it's hard to go back the other way. >> Did you already run this through to get to that 2.5 or did you do this on your own? >> Yeah, we did it this afternoon. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, just to clarify, using 200,000 of the fund balance, >> it was dollar amount you sent me was like 187 and some change. And then I was thinking [clears throat and cough] from the 187 to the two, we could make another line item for the60 comp plan. >> Yeah. And we basically we would just Yeah. I just want that noted on there so >> five years from now, people [clears throat and snorts] aren't up here, oh, look at this extra money we got. Right. And then they get a $100,000 bill in 10 years. It will probably cost. >> So next year you'll add that 12 again. So it'll just be a line item [clears throat] >> that helps us get close to that amount in 10 years from now. >> Yes. >> Just like at least gets us here. We can talk a little more at the next meeting. We can talk about go over fee and that kind of stuff. [laughter] >> Just have to do it. >> He's got a good idea. something like that. >> Okay. >> For our uh for MSA uh um what is the budget for them? Because I know they're doing a lot more work this year than they have in past years and planning and stuff like that. Have we upped their budget for that or where we at for them? >> Was that the one for this year was like 30? There is a line in the planning and zoning budget for professional services which is some of it is for MSA planning, some of it is for Rum River to do zoning reviews and other planning work for us. >> So are we on budget? Are we over budget or [clears throat] >> budget? >> We're on budget. >> Yep. >> Have we I mean I'm asking this. I'm seeing a lot more work from them. Did we up that from last year? >> It's probably been in the budget for about five years. There were a couple years where I didn't even touch it and I started touching it about put some money in there or something. >> Just didn't spend it. >> Applicants pay for most of it. >> A lot of it is reimbursed through the applicants. >> I'm just trying to get at because I'm seeing a lot of Well, even tonight's uh agenda there's several things from MSA and I'm just wondering because in the past you would have done that stuff. >> Yeah. >> Um so I'm just wondering how much that has increased that and are we budgeting budgeting appropriately for that and what not? Yeah, I can get you that information, but it is budgeted for. >> Can you >> Can you explain one more time where is uh MSA's under professional and under engineering? >> Well, there a couple different buckets, right? The MSA serves as a city's engineer, city engineer. So, there's always been a line item for engineering where most of their charges go. Uh but under professional services for planning and zoning, they are we are charging some of their fees to that as well for the planning services that they've been providing for the stuff they've been doing at the planning commission, the memos and such that they've had for some of these ordinance amendments. >> Okay. >> And if you look at that line item, you do see a decrease, but that's also where we budgeted for the comp plan. >> Well, okay. That was my question because it's cut in half. >> Yes, but the comp 50,000 was in there for the comp plan. So, we did add another 5,000 to that those >> I think part plan was a onetime project [clears throat and cough] the budget. >> I think part of the problem is uh like Lauren said uh we take from different buckets. Well, I don't know what's coming out of this bucket that bucket and to me it's almost kind of well we don't have enough money in their budget so we can slide it from here. And that's what I'm concerned about and stuff whether all of a sudden we're giving them more money than we used to give them. Then I want to know about that. I want to know how much because we base our decisions on knowing that type of information and just because you got it from somewhere else, you know, because I know this stuff isn't free. These memos and everything else that's coming up and uh that affects the [clears throat] budget one way or another because if you're taking it out of the budget, then somebody else that was in that budget isn't getting something. Um Weston, you mentioned in the past not too long ago about we had what a couple hundred thousand $300,000 in that one account that we didn't even know about and stuff and then all of a sudden boom, it pops up. some things get disappear and they're not easy to see and stuff, you know. So, I just want a little more clarity on some of that stuff. So, it's obvious when we look at it that, oh, this is going to MSA for this type of stuff or this type of stuff, whatnot. But I think that might be some potential things to look at for saving money or not. >> That's a good question. I don't know. >> Great. Well, I think we can pick this up again since a couple of you are going to be missing the next meeting. Maybe I don't think Carrie needs to stick around for it, but we can at least maybe spend a few more minutes talking about some of these things. I think we got kind of short on time here. So, unless anybody has any last questions for Carrie, [clears throat] I will end the budget work session and we will begin the council meeting here in just a few minutes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.