[0:28] e [0:58] e [1:28] e [1:58] e [2:28] e e [3:05] okay [3:11] let's I rang the buzzer oh here we are good green [3:17] light well good morning everybody uh it is Thursday January 16 2025 [3:24] 731 a.m. in the morning and this this is the meeting of the atanta housing Redevelopment Authority [3:30] and I'm going to ask uh who's calling role executive director Neil Scott Neil [3:35] is going to call the role commissioner rer here commissioner Jackson here [3:41] commissioner Pierce here chair huband here uh just a reminder for to folks um [3:47] that we doing these meetings whether it's City Council meetings or H meetings in a hybrid sort of fashion some folks [3:52] may be turning uh tuning in on uh television uh or watching on their computers watching remotely in some form [4:00] fashion uh there's only one place in the meeting this morning where you can participate if you're uh a Community [4:06] member and that is during Community comment and you can uh call in uh no one [4:11] in the audience this morning other than staff uh so if anyone wants to call in and address the H on a matter that's not [4:18] on the agenda this morning or scheduled for a future public hearing before the HRA you're welcome to do so and having [4:25] provided that information we will now do the Pledge of Allegiance [4:32] Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it [4:38] stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for [4:47] all thank you for that recognition this morning and then uh we've got a meeting [4:53] agenda that we need to approve or modify is there anyone who wishes to modify the agenda in any form or fashion [5:00] hearing nothing is there a motion to adopt the meeting agenda is published so move so move second we got a motion by [5:06] commissioner Pierce second by commissioner Jackson to adopt the meeting agenda as published any further discussion all those in favor of [5:13] adoption of the meeting agenda as published say I I I oppos carried uh now we are at Community comment and um there [5:20] as I mentioned there's no one in the audience but staff I don't know if we have anybody on the line or not I don't [5:26] have anyone on the line but because there is a brief delay in the broadcast I would recommend that we put that [5:31] number back up on the screen and we wait a minute or so so to make sure people have that opportunity to call in my [5:38] clock shows it at 7:34 I will come back to you at 7:35 or when I have a caller whichever is first very [5:58] good for [6:47] it is now 7:35 and I still don't have a caller so I think it's safe to move forward with the agenda very good thank [6:53] you for that um uh our practice is that we have the executive director respond to any Community comments from the prior [6:58] meeting and I'll turn to executive director Neil to see if he has any responses there are no Community [7:03] comments to respond to from the previous meeting all right very good next is the consent agenda for Fairly [7:10] straightforward beginning of the year sort of items on the consent agenda is there anyone that wishes to remove an [7:15] item from the consent agenda uh I do all right which one um the minutes from December 19th [7:23] 6.4 oh December 7 19th okay all right [7:30] so uh with the um exception of uh the minutes of December 19 2024 for the HRA [7:38] is there a motion to adopt the other items on the agenda on the on the consent agenda in a single motion so [7:44] move second commissioner Pierce moves commissioner Jackson seconds the adoption of the items on the consent [7:50] agenda with the exception of the item uh that is part of 6.4 which is the minutes [7:56] of the December 19 2024 h meeting any further discussion all those in favor of [8:01] adoption of the motion is stated say I I I opposed carried and then let's turn to those minutes on December [8:08] 19 uh 2024 and go to commissioner Risser and see what u u my concern comes from [8:15] page three and it's the line the board requested allowing for community space [8:20] for the city council to have office hours at the lab and um two things one I [8:27] know last year we did have a dialogue about changing the way we did minutes so that they would be more in line with the [8:32] way minut tanka does um we have not followed through with that and in minutes for both the HRA as well as city [8:40] council um we are a block this sort of generic the board the [8:48] um and I think and the you know what [8:53] that means is that one person can make a suggestion and suddenly it looks like we're all behind it and I do have [8:59] concerns about City Council Members officing um out of the lab um specifically it is a BC Corp also that [9:07] spaces in a private office building um we are are and I don't know if we are [9:12] going to be paying rent to do that so there's you know that could be a problem but if we're not paying rent that could [9:18] also be a problem because we're my understanding and I thought we were going to have documentation about the [9:25] loan um renegotiation but it just seems like [9:31] that is not necessarily a great idea we could also office out of spaces that are [9:37] public spaces I know it would be a little bit cumbersome but I really I personally do not want to be officing um [9:44] out of 7201 Metro [9:50] Boulevard sure Jackson so if I meet with somebody at Jerry's which is a public [9:57] which is a private business do you are you do you disapprove of that I do not [10:02] this is a different kettle of fish because this is making it official that this is our official space for City [10:09] Council Members to office out of um and I know I will hear from constituents who [10:14] will want to meet at Jerry's um and I will go and I will meet there or another [10:20] location sometimes people want to meet at a park um and so it's more at the discretion of an individual resident and [10:27] I am you know I I am comfortable with that but for us to have official offices [10:33] out of 7201 Metro Boulevard that's not something I want to do um if other [10:38] Council people want to do that you know I I don't think there's anything I I don't know if that's a problem or not so [10:46] I just learned we actually have an office here which I didn't know when at the time I made that comment um so that [10:54] actually solves the problem for me I don't have any problem um meeting with somebody in my home or going to another [11:01] place that is not a um restaurant um I think it if the member of the public is [11:06] not comfortable meeting in a in a private business that's perfectly fine we can meet in a public way but I I [11:12] don't I don't think that we should designate one way or another as off limits um and I don't think this was [11:18] making it official either well the way I read this is that [11:23] their board not our board at the housing Redevelopment their board [11:30] asked questions or suggested uh that to us to think about allowing community [11:37] space for City council's use so it's just like they were reporting on what their board [11:43] said it doesn't no um I'm not sure okay I think if you go back and you look at [11:50] the video it's a little bit different than that but I think that's not the main point I think the point is is it a good idea for us to office out of that [11:57] local and for me I don't think it's a good idea idea manager Neal um I think some of I [12:04] think some of the issues with the word to office as a verb I think we [12:10] understood that as a place where you might uh come in and uh sort of sit down [12:16] for a couple of hours and and you might meet with people you might not it depends who wants to show up but it you [12:21] wouldn't have it wouldn't be an official office it'd be a place where you could uh meet people for official business if [12:28] you wanted to that's my recollection from the presentation too was that if you know if someone didn't have a place [12:34] they could meet with a resident or someone else they wanted a place to have a quick meeting they could certainly [12:39] contact the the the board or the lab and go up to that [12:44] space m um just a a question about and I know in that conversation it also um [12:51] came up that we are using this for city meetings and I'm wondering do we pay when we do that or is that a free that [12:59] we get it is um comped right we don't pay a fee for it um I'm not I'm not sure why we're [13:09] debating this I don't I don't understand the purpose of debating it to me it's no difference than going to Jerry's or me [13:17] sending out a note saying hey I'm going to do office hours at Jerry's every other Wednesday and I'm going to grab a [13:24] table sit back in the corner if people come they come if they don't I jerus [13:29] gets a cup of coffee off of me um I didn't interpret there any different than that and then I I also [13:37] didn't think of it as when we toss around the term official business um I don't know that I would [13:45] sign HRA papers as the secretary at Jerry's to me that feels like official [13:52] business I should be doing here um it would just be to meet with community [13:57] members and so that's how I interpret it I wasn't here for this particular [14:02] meeting but I did meet with them when um they mentioned hey would be nice to start to use this space for more [14:10] community events um and if I remember they even talked about maybe it's a [14:15] space that the city could use if they want to have Team meetings or whatever as well um I thought it was a great idea [14:22] it's a it's a wonderful space um and so I I thought well yeah even if we said no [14:31] quote unquote there's actually nothing that stops me from still doing it right [14:36] right so but is there something about the context of the sentence structure there [14:43] that bothers you that you wanted to change because it didn't accurately reflect what they had been proposing [14:48] because what you're talking about is more substantive I can see where the made a key to thought in your mind about having [14:54] a discussion about it but is there anything about the structure of the minutes themselves that's you find um [15:01] yeah inacurate that monolithic the board um well okay so here it's saying the board and implying the chamber [15:09] but um in general okay with that particular [15:17] sentence no I am okay with that but I do um but if you use that as a method to [15:24] raise this issue I think that's fine I agree with that cuz this isn't a decision to do [15:31] something well we are referred to actually throughout the minutes we are the [15:37] board um and I I do wish we could do what minaka does so [15:43] that um when there's there's more information in the minutes so that we [15:49] know who is saying what and I don't think we're ever going to I'm going to write my Memoir it will be Council asked [15:56] questions and made comments but it it'd be nice if there was um a way to handle [16:02] the content that comes out of the discussion um from the Das in a way that is a little more specific we can move on [16:08] that is all except I was wondering I thought we were going to be getting um an more of a [16:16] substantive uh request from the chamber today maybe no we're it's that's [16:22] something that we're still okay discussing with them all right thank you um but I think you did raise an [16:28] interesting question I don't remember us asking them if we could have office hours did you Caroline okay okay all [16:35] right okay so the minutes are accurate all right so someone care to move those adoption of those minutes of December 19 [16:43] 2024 so move second all right got a motion by member commissioner rer second [16:48] by commissioner Jackson to adopt the minutes of September uh December 19 2024 [16:53] as published um any further discussion all those in favor of adoption of the motion St say I I I opposed [17:01] carried um those minutes are approved for the December 19 2024 h [17:08] meeting um all right now let's move on to kind of the heart of the meeting this morning that's reports and [17:13] recommendations uh as I mentioned earlier this is the beginning of the year there's it's a time of the year when we're doing things like uh [17:20] appointing the executive director which we did in the consent agenda designating an official newspaper uh repositories [17:27] for funds of the HRA and now we've got to uh propose the Slate of officers and executive director [17:34] Neil uh looks like you've got a proposal here that uh would involve the same slate we had last year that is our [17:41] custom um Mr chair and members of the commission uh to appoint the Slate if [17:46] the Slate is fully returning uh this year's slate uh are the current officers [17:52] are mayor huin as chair commissioner Jackson as Vice chair and commissioner Pierce as secretary anybody have any [17:59] thoughts on that or care to make a motion to that effect so moved second Jackson moves commissioner Pierce [18:05] seconds the uh uh adoption of the recommendation of the executive director [18:12] to approve the election of officers with the Slate being uh the mayor as chair [18:17] the commissioner Jackson as Vice chair and commissioner Pierce as secretary any further discussion those in favor of [18:23] adoption of the motion is stated say I I I opposed carried uh that motion is [18:29] approved and um then we will go on to some updates uh again involving [18:36] activities from 2024 and and other things that are ongoing in nature first matter before us are Bill [18:43] Noor for economic development manager has this matter which is the a report out for us an update on the 5146 Eden [18:53] Avenue welcome yes good morning uh the [18:58] first item is for discussion only um but we wanted to further the conversation about the city's old public work site [19:05] that's been vacant for a long time uh especially in light of the recent conversations about the city budget um [19:11] this is a piece of property that has a value it's in a desirable location uh as [19:16] we all know we've uh looked at a number of different creative proposals over the years um but so far nothing has been [19:23] built um uh we would staff would recommend [19:29] that we um get this property back on the marketplace find new developers and uh [19:34] or single developer however that might work out and move it forward uh to bring in the revenue and actually monetize [19:40] this asset and return it to productive productive use um we've had a lot of [19:46] conversations over the years about the site uh it it is zoned industrial although it's guided for more of a mixed [19:52] use um so there is a lot of zoning work that's involved and so when we issue uh [19:59] uh when we put it out out on the market uh we're recommending a request for proposal or RFP process um it's best uh [20:08] to get the a prompt sale and a firm sale and a good sales price if we can provide [20:14] clear direction of what we want um and so that's the purpose of the of the [20:19] discussion this morning uh is to get your input uh so that as we put together an RFP and get it on the marketplace we [20:27] can give the developer the the best Direction um that we can um I've got a [20:33] series of questions um that uh that I'll walk through uh for discussion and happy [20:38] to answer questions along the way um or at the end might be actually more con more uh uh structured towards the end [20:46] but just as a refresher last May uh we looked at uh several different sketches [20:51] of how the site might be laid out uh we looked at Town Home combinations condos co-ops we included the restaurant and [20:58] the the park um so I just wanted to put this up as as kind of the where we left off last May one of my first questions [21:06] is is this still the direction we want to go um we also had discussions about coming up with a creative idea creative [21:13] alternative um one of the uh discussion points though is with creat creativity [21:20] comes greater challenge comes greater delays uh and uh we think it's in our [21:27] best interest to move this forward um so with that in mind I'll I'll start getting to the uh to the [21:33] questions and then happy to have the conversation at the end um so speed versus price uh if it were utterly [21:42] important if we were in a dire situation we could put a for sale sign out there today and sell it to the highest bidder [21:48] that comes in it would be a low price because it's not zoned for anything that works um alternatively we can go with a [21:55] more traditional sales process issue an RFP and actually get a combination of price [22:00] and product that we're that we're very aligned with and and satisfied with but just to remind you if getting money in [22:07] the door as quickly as possible is the preference that can also [22:13] happen we've also had conversations about the cost of the city's policies [22:19] and some of our uh some of our policy goals um over the years we've developed [22:25] developed the seven guiding principles for this Grand View District uh We've uh adopted and updated our [22:31] affordability policy our sustainability policies um all good Forward Thinking [22:37] policies but they add cost to the site so one of the other triggers that we [22:42] might have is if we want to continue to enforce those we should be clear about that if we want to um make it a little [22:49] bit easier to develop that site we could talk about waivers or relaxations of those policies again don't have a firm [22:56] recommendation one way or the other but just like you know that there are options out there for [23:03] us it's also um a challenge to have confidence that this that the sale [23:08] actually gets closed I think we are all disappointed including the developer when the senior Co-op project wasn't [23:15] able to move forward uh and we've we've uh found ourselves in that situation on [23:21] a handful of occasions pick a developer seem like a really creative idea a good idea we put the numbers together spend a [23:28] lot of time and uh and typically other people's money but then don't execute [23:35] the sale don't get anything built so as we consider um moving this this Pro this [23:42] project forward uh the best way to to get the sale to close is to be as clear [23:47] as possible upfront what our expectations are try to root those in [23:53] reality so that a de developer can actually achieve that and then get it moving um over the years we've had a lot [24:00] of conversations about being more creative and doing this and including this and Partnerships and it's all well [24:08] intended but um if we want to sell this and get it developed I'm just urging [24:15] that we consider being clear and concise regarding the uses on the [24:22] property um you know all the zoning decisions you'll consider as a city council we'll get Planning Commission [24:27] input but when we left left off last year you indicated a very high preference for [24:34] four sale housing Town Home Missing middle type we talked about price [24:41] point uh we did talk to developers last summer um uh we didn't do abroad we [24:48] didn't put it out there but we just tested the market and um that's a challenge uh if if we if we will only [24:56] accept a for sale product co-ops or town homes um we should be prepared that [25:02] there might be a delay in getting it actually financed and built or we should be prepared that the price will be lower [25:09] for the land and so one of the key questions that I would ask you is do we [25:14] want to stick with a mandate that it be ownership or is it okay to say we strongly prefer ownership but would [25:22] accept or at least entertain offers for either a combination of ownership and Rental um or um when we left off last [25:30] summer the the consensus seemed to be any proposal that came in as all rental [25:35] would just be not that would not be considered um just wanted to test the [25:41] waters and see where where we are in 2025 um uh because that's that to me is [25:46] the biggest question about the site is that how deeply are we in the in the [25:52] ownership or are we open to combinations [25:59] um I actually did these slides in in the reverse order the other piece of it ownership vers versus rental last summer [26:05] we also talked about residential a restaurant and a public park we've talked about that for several [26:13] years um uh I still think that's a good combination but there's been concern [26:19] especially in light of the budget conversations about the ongoing costs of a new public park um in other projects [26:27] we've designed those green spaces as public plazas where they're owned and maintained by the developer but then the [26:33] city the general public has the right to use it um we might want to reconsider [26:39] the the demand for a public park and soften that to include a plaza [26:45] or something like like that that doesn't put a future cost burden on the community um and then also the provision [26:54] of a restaurant you know we wanted to activate the Green Space still a great idea um some developers are interested the [27:00] restaurant tour is still interested in doing something there but other developers are interested in doing [27:05] things that aren't restaurants and so I just wanted to G gauge your interest in How firm we should stick to that [27:12] formula when you see other developers are interested in other ideas uh we haven't heard any of those you you've [27:18] been recipient of some of those calls I suppose that are inquiries about [27:23] potential uses what are some of those potential uses you're hearing about uh residential ism is the main is the main [27:30] main interest and Rental uh market rate rental is that what you're talking rent yeah there's [27:35] yeah the unlisted calls are rental apartments um the F the targeted calls that we've been doing are are more Town [27:42] Home Missing middle trying to find developers interested in [27:47] that we've also talked about uh uh complexity of the site doing public [27:53] private Partnerships um that's what we were trying to do with with jester concept in that Park versus and the [27:59] restaurant um quite honestly we never found a way to actually make it work uh we never reached the point where we had [28:05] to figure it out but we spent a lot of hours trying to figure out how the park [28:11] can be a park sometimes but also an amenity for the restaurant how we can share cost share even the conversations [28:18] about sharing outdoor toilet facilities for Park patrons [28:24] um was much more complex than either party EXP expected and so one of the questions for us to consider is if we [28:32] have higher expectations about complexity and creativity that's going to make it Greater challenge for the [28:38] project and so do we want would we want to be open to a more simple straightforward project and get [28:45] certainty and get it closed and get it sold also along the way we've we've um [28:54] discussed uh in this forum and others just the challenges of our zoning code [29:00] and the process of going through uh when you've got to rezone a site and then we're for this site I mean the the only [29:07] realistic way to get something built there is to go through the Pud process there's been a lot of consternation and [29:13] and uh conversation about that that still staff's recommendation to actually [29:18] have this site be developed in alignment with the with the comprehensive plan um but one of the challenges that [29:26] we're expecting is a lot of the details right so as we put a project a proposal [29:32] forward they're going to go through the process through the Planning Commission through the city council all of our typical process there might be some [29:39] trade-offs you know maybe we want a 30 foot setback and maybe the way that it lays out we only get a 24 foot setb just [29:46] a random example we need to have a a thought in mind do we want to um you [29:55] know how can we write this proposal or this request for proposals so that we [30:00] can give the developer some idea of what is acceptable to [30:06] us we've also uh had conversations in the past about financing um public [30:11] financing versus private financing um at this point we're presuming that the site [30:16] is privately financed uh when we were talking with jester Concepts more uh [30:22] intensely there was conversation about possibly using spark for that project because the numbers were it was right on [30:28] the CP of those numbers working um the site isn't a tiff District but we've we [30:34] don't expect Tiff to be used for this site we do expect uh grants uh might be pursued depending on the on the [30:41] developer and the proposal but just to put it out there whether or not there's any interest in in again sending a clear [30:46] message are we interested in in any public financing or are we expecting it all to be [30:53] private and then one of the biggest questions is when we do get to the point where we've got it under contract we've [31:01] agreed on the sales price and the terms and they're working through the zoning where does that sales revenue [31:07] go today the property is owned by the H so the sales revenue would be collected [31:14] by the HRA to be used for H purposes housing Redevelopment those types of [31:21] things land acquisition a number of different things the HRA could do and alternative in light of our budget [31:26] conversations uh working with the executive director on this um over the last several [31:33] weeks theoretically we could return or or transfer the property back to the [31:39] city and when the land is sold that Revenue goes back into the city fund to [31:45] be used for things that the HRA doesn't control firefighters police Parks plus [31:52] roads and sewers and everything else um if we do transfer it back to the City [31:58] there there's trade-offs right there's always consequences the reason we we uh have it owned by the H is that it's a [32:06] less complex sales process when it when it's with the H and in general when the hrl HRA sells [32:15] property the aim is to to sell it for a reasonable price for the best project [32:21] understate law when the city sells property the main goal is to sell it for [32:27] the highest price which might mean that it's not the perfect project that we were all hoping for so that's that's there's a trade-off [32:34] there but yet since the site has to be rezoned the site plan has to be approved [32:40] for it the city council is not giving up all controls um but it does make a [32:46] dramatic difference in in how those sales revenues can be used so I think that's a really important question that [32:53] it doesn't really affect the buyer but it would affect us [32:58] and then the last topic of conversation is how to actually get this deal closed um we want to make sure that we're [33:04] transparent uh in this process the sale of real estate typically involves a [33:10] series of public meetings and public discussions it also incl includes some Clos meetings to actually discuss those [33:17] sales contracts and discuss how we can get the best outcome for the community [33:22] and so just to to remind folks that using the traditional process we can expect some public meetings like this we [33:30] can also expect a couple closed executive sessions for discussion and then come back after those Clos meetings [33:36] either the same day or the or at the next meeting and have the conclusion and [33:41] any action occurring in the public meeting um but just just wanted to [33:46] remind folks that there is that combination of of open meetings and closed meetings for Real Estate um and [33:52] in order to get this project to move forward we should expect to talk about this at at a handful of meetings over [33:58] the next 3 to six months uh so with that uh just also the [34:03] the last offer for any other final concerns or suggestions uh our goal as staff is to deliver a clear message to [34:13] potential buyers about what we want and what they have to propose to us to [34:18] satisfy us and actually get get that project developed and to get it sold and so that's the kind of input I'm looking [34:25] for as suggestions um if there's any Hot Topics or hot issues that you think I [34:30] must have versus other things that you're more lenient on uh we're listing and what we intend to do is get your get [34:37] your feedback today and continue to move forward with the RFP um we'd love to get [34:43] that published in February because this all still takes time if we get it under contract this spring we can aim to close [34:51] it to sell it next year so it they it takes time so we're [34:57] we're hoping to to to get the conversation rolling and with that Mr chair I'll turn it back for to you for [35:02] conversation and any questions as well you know what it might help uh Lisa would me if you roll back to your slide [35:09] three which is the where we ended up last year and then maybe tell us a [35:15] little bit about the exploration you made in the market with respect to this idea that we had because we didn't we [35:21] don't really know what kind of response you got yeah yeah so I reached out uh [35:26] Stephanie and I reached out to a couple town home developers um there's interest [35:32] uh there's strong interest in the in the luxury sector um they think that would um work work well um for Town Homes at a [35:42] lower price point uh you're looking at a lower land value and but also a more limited pool of developers and with the [35:50] condominium and Co-op or rental uh building of course there's interest in the rental um there there is interest in [35:57] senior co-ops by other developers um we had worked with United properties and [36:03] they were working on something where the they were very nice units very large units uh at a high at a high sales price [36:11] and what they found is that just wasn't meeting where the market was back then uh there is interest in something of a [36:17] of a co-op that's that is um more modest in scale the units are not 1,600 feet [36:24] it's more of a traditional Co-op siiz unit um uh we haven't I've not heard from [36:31] anyone interested in building a condominium um but we also haven't looked a whole lot uh and with the [36:36] resturant partner uh Jester is still interested in doing something here uh we still have a contract with them I don't [36:42] want to overlook that but right now the contract is unenforcable the dates are long long lapsed it needs to be revised [36:50] um but they still have interest in being on the site whether it's in the location that we first anticipated um uh closer to the northern [36:58] edge of the site or Northern portion they'd also be interested in pulling it down to the southern portion um so [37:04] they're open they just like this neighborhood they like the location they're willing to to work uh with with [37:09] us and with any other prospective partner um but we've only done focus groups we haven't really haven't tested [37:15] it thoroughly that's what the RFP would [37:21] do Mr chair could I add just a bit to the staff presentation here um [37:29] I gave the order actually to to demolish the building that was on this site in [37:34] 2011 and since that time we have gone through many different cycles of of how [37:41] how we wanted to manage the the ultimate Redevelopment of this site and we've tried to be uh tried to be as creative [37:48] as possible but I think our our record on this site has shown that we we it [37:53] just hasn't worked um when you think about the what the school district did [37:58] with its with its land for the former bus barn on the other side of the of the [38:03] of the railroad tracks they made a pretty quick decision they sold their land for $4 million which is was about [38:10] half the size maybe a little less than half the size of our of our site and it redeveloped and they cashed out they [38:17] monetized it um given our discussions around budget and and kind of the U the [38:23] medium term that we're looking at this the sale of this proper property uh [38:28] could provide enough economic value that we would translate that into our Capital [38:33] spending right we would take whatever proceeds uh are generated by this put it [38:39] into our Capital spending that would allow us to reduce our Capital Levy uh [38:44] so there would be a positive impact on on that for everyone as well uh but we have to make that decision so that's [38:51] that would be my recommendation we don't have to own we don't have to own a parcel of land to have a lot of say in [38:57] how it's redeveloped uh we all know that but we this is how that could that could benefit our ongoing discussion around [39:03] the budget Rich super high level um in terms of [39:10] process and you mentioned it would likely go to a PUD and I've been [39:16] thinking about puds a lot and we tend to create these proprietary puds where the [39:23] actual zoning is commits to a specific [39:28] developers site plan and I really would encourage us not to go down that path [39:36] especially because as things happen and we've seen this with you know the 7200 [39:41] site the only thing that can go up there um is what the you know is the exclusive [39:50] right of the person who has that site plan and so we are zoning in such a way [39:55] that is so bespoke and so limited and then when things happen and they don't [40:01] necessarily move forward for whatever reason we're locked into that and I think it makes us really cut off [40:09] potential Market forces and it pulls things away from you know it pulls away [40:15] opportunities from other developers and then you you get Tiff and Tiff was raised as a possibility and so if we're [40:21] doing another proprietary PUD and then granting Tiff money to that so [40:28] essentially public funds that can only be accessed by The Entity that owns [40:36] those specific site plans that have been formally embedded in our zoning code I [40:43] think that's a problem so I would really like it if we can avoid going down that path and make it you do the Pud somehow [40:51] so that it's not wedded to an individual um entity's site plan um [40:59] thank you so typically in the process you'd [41:04] have a buyer come with a Loi and then you'd start that whole regulatory [41:11] process so fact that you end up with a site specific PUD comes after the agreement [41:18] to purchase really um so I I don't have that same kind of fear that we couldn't you know [41:25] use the same PUD or modify it PUD uh if the if the deal we had was [41:31] some specific developer cratered out but usually it that that doesn't [41:37] occur until Downstream after you've got a purchase agreement in [41:43] place we can certainly look into the Pud process and and see what options are out there um [41:50] uh I don't know if that's possible to do it as as was described um but you're [41:56] right Mr chair uh the intention is to go and get offers solicit offers and see what's out there [42:03] see what makes sense pick one and then have them go through that whole process [42:08] through that whole zoning conversation um uh so the the selection of the [42:14] developer and and the general concept would come first the site plan second [42:19] then closing the real estate third then and then building it [42:25] commer uh thanks Mr here so just describe cuz I'm a I think I'm confused [42:33] that's funny for me to when I hear myself say that I think I'm confused um [42:39] what's different about what you're describing Now versus what we did the first few years when projects came [42:48] forward um uh it's it's [42:54] similar the the overall process is Sim similar uh we we [42:59] initially we did the first RF we called it an RFI back then that was [43:05] 2014 we did a competitive process we did something very similar to this a little [43:10] bit more pump and Circumstance we brought six or seven different developers and they did presentations [43:17] and um so it's a little bit similar to that but um trying to shorten the [43:22] timeline okay um developers don't like rfps because [43:27] the way most of them are structured and I'm not recommending we do this most of them are structured where the developer [43:33] has to put a lot of money into their proposal let's say 10 people apply we're going to pick one that means right from [43:40] the get-go nine of them are going to spend a whole lot of money and just waste it and that usually dissuades most [43:48] developers from even applying so I'm recommending a more simplified process [43:53] um but it overall it's similar to what we've done in the past just tighter okay um to achieve our goals in a in a [44:00] shorter time frame okay so I asked that question because I the way I was interpreting your [44:07] presentation is that you were asking us to [44:14] um be clear on the criteria for the projects that we want [44:19] to see on that site and then I kind of I liked your scale because that [44:25] immediately put me into the mindset that you're asking us U to think about how we [44:31] weigh certain opinions that we've expressed before um and so a great one [44:37] would be Market versus um market rate versus affordable [44:44] housing um we've said we don't want market rate there well if there's a a [44:50] deal and we've decided we're going to sell then essentially then you're into [44:56] the process where a developer comes in they've done an Loi they go through the sketch playing [45:02] review just like any other project right um and so that's that's what I thought [45:08] you were asking for us to say all right what are you comfortable with this criteria as we go to market is that is [45:16] that fair uh that's fair um what I hope to do is get a general conversation in general direction today and then come [45:23] back to you with that RFP and I'll confirm is this what are you are you agreeable to to this particular set of [45:30] parameters yeah okay so I um I I would I like the idea of us [45:39] trying to um I don't like the way it sounds but to relax what our [45:45] requirements are um to get potential projects in there to get this done [45:52] um I think it's a valuable piece of property um I would want us to one make [45:58] sure there aren't any City needs for pieces of that property um and so [46:04] thinking about that would probably be something I I want to make sure we do and then I suppose I'm I would still [46:13] want to um try to address missing [46:19] middle however if you said to me if we sold this and it becomes condos at [46:27] market rate and it's going to generate I don't know $6 million it's coming into the HRA and then we can take that money [46:35] to then go do town home someplace for missing middle I'd be okay with that um so in in [46:43] general I like what you're proposing I want to say I don't know [46:48] that anything is off limits to me um I want it I'd want to [46:55] see what those ideas are um but I would want to make sure we don't end up in a situation where [47:01] developer is spending you know $2 million on some concept and then um at [47:08] the 9th hour it gets disapproved so if there are things in there that we could [47:13] modify to um give some assurance that right there [47:19] is possibility that these things will go through um then those those criteria I [47:24] might adjust but in general I I like the idea of uh what you're proposing great [47:31] can I ask for one clarification when you use the term missing middle do you mean Missle missing missing middle pricing or [47:40] missing middle scale like size of buildings town homes and and like a three or four story [47:47] building so that's fair or is it price um I when I normally when I say that and [47:56] I am talking about price so I'm and then and to be specific I'm looking at the median home value and thinking of [48:03] anything less than the median um which I guess isn't necessarily missing middle um but it [48:11] does speak to housing affordability more broadly and then um because you asked in [48:17] terms of size um I do think about there [48:22] are in our Market there is some missing um [48:29] housing sizes or configurations um so that would be the smaller town homes which speaks to size [48:36] right um so I'd probably say both of those things um but I do think about [48:42] housing affordability more broadly as I as I stated thank you M Jackson yes thank you [48:51] Mr chair so I'm going to invert the way of doing this and start with comments and then go to questions [48:57] um so when this came before the Planning Commission um in the present iteration [49:03] that we've been talking about they were very disappointed that this was not an exciting idea and so I always keep that [49:09] in the back of my mind that they were very disappointed it wasn't something special and in particular um one of the [49:15] things is that we've got that big drop off because the slope of the of the area changes and so one of the criteria I [49:22] would like to add is if you can use that drop off for part work or something um I [49:29] would include that because I think to bring in all that dirt fill it in is expensive it's an unnecessary expense so [49:35] that would be one criteria I would add to what we've talked about before um and [49:41] um but I think we need to uh talk a little bit about um you know making sure that [49:48] the Planning Commission understands we need to do something um and uh so I hear [49:54] their message that they wanted something exciting and of course the Planning Commission has changed since then [49:59] but the most important part of the comment that I took from what they said was that we've got that cut in the land [50:06] already can we please use that for something um so that's the criteria um based on their feedback I would add um [50:14] commissioner Pierce talked about City needs for this property I would like to see the analysis done that shows that [50:21] this is not a good spot for the fire station intuitively I understand that but I would like to see um you know a a [50:27] traffic design or something that shows why it's so difficult for emergency vehicles to get over there and get up to [50:33] Morningside which is the neighborhood that most needs um additional coverage by fire um we hear a lot of chatter [50:39] about why not use a spot for the fire station I'd like to um have a presentation on why that's not possible [50:47] um absolutely I want to keep the environmental and housing policies in place this is a city piece of land um [50:53] and we should um be forward with our policies not not retreating from it [50:59] um let's see uh if we sell this property I'd like [51:04] the proceeds to go to purchase the land south of the fire station number two that we're building so that becomes HRA [51:11] property we could use that money to pay down the bonds um I don't maybe it's not one for one but if we can I think that [51:18] would be good and then we have that piece of land as an H property that we can talk about housing um I'm good with [51:26] the idea modest co-ops and luxury Town Homes I think that would be really cool um and that goes then to my question can [51:33] we possibly Zone this ahead of sale Zone it mixed use um and then sell it as that [51:42] so that's it's not industrial and we don't and and kind of um you know make that decision ahead of time to lower the [51:49] cost for the developer [51:56] so I'll let um conferring with Carrie teager community development director well you can [52:04] answer I know yes uh thank you chair and Commissioners we could reone that [52:09] proactively um the surrounding zoning is pcd2 similar to Jerry's but we certainly [52:15] could do that yeah I think if we can Zone it um pcd2 if that's you know sort [52:20] of the thing ahead of time that would lower the cost and the uncertainty for any potential developer and have them [52:27] come forward you know I'd like to have a condition that that pedestrian bridge be attached to some open space some green [52:34] space um whatever that looks like uh so that we can have that feeling of being able to trans transverse the um area by [52:42] foot um if I could just add in in proactively resoning to pcd2 you do lose [52:49] some of your abilities to determine what happens there if we rezone it to PCD PCD [52:56] to sell the site they're entitled to a [53:02] development that meets those pcd2 regulations so the sustainability policy [53:08] um affordable housing policy those things would be tough to um tough to [53:14] require in the absence of a PUD you mean right correct because we can negotiate them into a PUD but we can't require it [53:21] by right right okay well that's a circle I'd like to Square [53:27] um because if we can cut down the uncertainty for a developer and get this thing developed and get some cash in our [53:34] account that would be good um you know [53:40] obviously uh anyways we can choose who we sell it to but let's put that on the table um as [53:47] something and maybe people coming forward who are willing to buy it um [53:52] will set aside funds for our policies but um but so so long as it's in our control I [53:59] want our policies to be in place but I also want to sell this I want to get the [54:04] cash I want to put the land money into land money if if at all possible um at [54:10] least to pay down those bonds if that's you know part of the if that's financially feasible for that fire [54:16] station number two I don't could we ask Scott Neil I don't think we have to worry about buying land from the city we [54:22] don't have to do that there's there's there's some there's some actions you have to take to convert land ownership [54:29] from HRA to to city and vice versa but it doesn't have to [54:34] be as complicated however I'm personally [54:39] averse to debt if we can take cash from the L sale of land and reduce City debt [54:48] that would be my top priority of the use of that money so that we can reduce the debt on that fire station number two and [54:54] have you know hold that land free and clear that's a different question different question and that's more [54:59] complicated than it sounds because the way the debt is structured it may not be callable for for a number of years but [55:06] but you you get the the net benefit of it if you use it for Capital spending too because you get to reduce the [55:13] capital Levy at by a by a like amount I understand but borrowed money is more expensive than than um money spent [55:21] that's in your pocket so if we can reduce the interest money that we're paying on other Capital things that [55:28] would be I so that we can open up the the anyways that's just my preference is [55:35] if we can use it to pay down existing debt on land that we own that would be my preference second would be going into [55:41] the construction fund because I know they're both are needs but if we're going to have to bond to um fix [55:48] Parks you know that's kind of the discussion I'm thinking about um so where are we bonding where we can get [55:55] rid of that debt um so that maybe that's a broader discussion than that specific piece of land but um those are my [56:02] thoughts yeah that's an interesting thought too the way to navigate that would probably be if there was something [56:08] else we had bond for we could bond for Less because we had cash sitting there [56:13] from the sale of this land right or sometimes there might be we might be at the tail end of uh of a Debt [56:21] Service commitment that and those bonds are cable at the tail end uh normally so [56:27] we could take a look at that too so I'm I'm I'm not saying it's a bad idea I'm just saying we need to look into that a little bit more because there's some [56:33] Public Finance issues on the side too uh commissioner rer um I have really [56:41] some strong concerns about the reality that our affordable housing requirements [56:47] are so burdensome that we cannot rone rezone um to PCD [56:54] to that we have to go to a PUD and I think we really need to look at our affordable housing policy because this [57:01] is not um a situation that is sustainable at all we we can't we can't [57:07] just keep going along this path I do think you're looking for some specifics and I really don't have a strong desire [57:16] to see a park that will have to be maintained and all of that and cost the city on the site I think um the idea of [57:23] a public Plaza is perfectly fine and you know so I would certainly offer that up [57:29] as something I will not you know cause issues on okay um I think you know we've [57:36] had it for a really really long time I remember when a medical uh facility wanted to go up and I supported that [57:41] when I was on the Planning Commission it was long ago um before manager Neil was [57:47] here so it it's been a long time and we do need to advance um and so I think we [57:53] are going to have to be flexible uh it's got to be pragmatic so you can hold me [57:59] to that great thank you [58:05] commissioner can you remember um executive director Neil what um I'm [58:10] think about the you raised an interesting issue with um where the avidor is now which was the old school [58:16] bus garage site I'm trying to recall the process they went through if they did an [58:21] RFP or they just put it on the market because they did they did a what I would call them more of a selective RFP [58:27] process is that how you remember it bill yeah I mean they invited maybe three or four developers to take a look at it and [58:34] yeah but they didn't they didn't have an RFP that to find use they did not they did not want to they did not want to go [58:41] through any of the trouble of acting like a a developer owner right he said we own this property we want to monetize [58:47] it and get out of it and the sooner the faster we can do that the better yeah and then then the people that represented the school district I think [58:53] it was Bob strota came to us s said here's where the way the school board's going to get their best price and that [58:59] is if we think about 55 plus housing yeah this is our best you know [59:05] so after we went through the uh regulatory process that's what we approved so when you think about this [59:12] site and trying to maintain to me there's a correlation between [59:18] flexibility on potential use and price because we don't know what could [59:25] remember rard just ra an interesting uh notion and that is that you know from time to time you hear youand family [59:31] physicians in Alina now are back talking to each other and they need more space [59:36] well that that could command a higher price than multif family so it's really [59:42] hard for me to figure out how to approach selling this especially when we sit with in two capacities you know if [59:50] we were just the economic development arm and we said okay sell this uh sell [59:55] this property for the best possible price you can get and then uh the city council has to decide whether or not [1:00:01] they're going to permit that that land use uh [1:00:06] it's that's a cleaner way in a way but we have to we have to wear both hats so [1:00:12] it's a little bit more Awkward not impossible but a little bit more Awkward um that member of Pierce TR is [1:00:19] an interesting or commissioner Pierce says is there is there a city use that uh that we should be thinking about [1:00:25] first you know we we all want to work on this budget and get this budget to be [1:00:31] more predictable and sustainable over time um property may have a role in that um [1:00:39] I'm open-minded there too especially when you think about is there some other City potential City use for it but the [1:00:45] range of value I remember is we had anywhere from3 to1 million as a [1:00:50] potential price for it that that's correct yeah that was the last time we looked into it that would [1:00:57] have been around 2014 or 201 was a long time remember there were a couple [1:01:03] proposals that had high density which was the 11 more on the 11 million side [1:01:08] that may have been the highrise y [1:01:13] yep yeah so if you prezone it and we just Zone it like what's around there then what does that do with respect to [1:01:20] somebody that comes and want some height there that preclude that [1:01:27] and that's our best price but we already Zone they could always seek variances things like that or even a [1:01:36] rezoning what are the pros and cons of resoning it in advance in your [1:01:43] opinion I I think it would be my opinion to not pre- rezone it gives you more [1:01:48] leverage um I I think of the RFP that we did at 50th in France where develop ERS [1:01:56] came in and and pitched their ideas and then the the zoning came second um so [1:02:03] just my initial thought on that it's a good comparative we came in with an idea on [1:02:09] what we wanted to have done down there and Nolan Ms came was a completely different idea that knocked it out of [1:02:15] the par created much more value than we thought we'd ever see I tell you my biggest [1:02:24] concern is and this is why I was asking the question what's different it's would be so easy for us [1:02:30] to fall right back into the same process where we're all asking for [1:02:38] things and adding to the project we kind of just kind of just did it saying well [1:02:44] we want the pedestrian bridge and I don't disagree with that to have access to the Green Space [1:02:51] um I'm disappointed that we don't have what we thought thought we were going to [1:02:56] get right that would have been really cool but if we want to [1:03:02] sell I definitely agree with whatever policies we have right we need to honor [1:03:10] those unless there's some legitimate variants that we want to give uh but we [1:03:15] shouldn't retract on those uh but if we aren't and I'll just use the kind of [1:03:21] disciplined in this is the outcome that we're going for then we could very [1:03:27] easily end up adding little things to it and then still end up with nothing there [1:03:33] and so that's where I was going with criteria are there you know sacred [1:03:40] things that we want to make sure we honor I think there are some of those things and then I think to a certain [1:03:46] extent there are going to have to be things where we may say okay we'll we'll go we'll forgo a [1:03:54] particular amenity to get the $9 million to then go do [1:04:00] something really great for the community that's like a different philosophy um to [1:04:06] me well maybe not different but um a philosophy I think we will have to practice uh with this particular project [1:04:14] well what I kind of hear you saying is we don't know what the market will deliver and if we want to see what the [1:04:22] best pricing would be we got to maintain as much flexibility as flexibility yeah agree otherwise we [1:04:28] won't know what the best price is yeah for something could be medical office [1:04:34] could be a highrise I midrise or you know we just don't know so that that [1:04:41] doesn't really help you much does it uh no it it is helpful so we'll we'll get [1:04:47] something together for the uh probably the next meeting we'll have a draft out there for you um I hope it'll be a final [1:04:55] draft and we can get it moving um but I think there is interest in the marketplace I think this year you know [1:05:02] everyone's got a different opinion about what development is going to be like in this year but yet for this project I [1:05:08] mean they won't be able to break ground this fall right I mean it we've got to close it we've got to design it get it [1:05:14] entitled hire they have to hire an architect to to get it really designed so I mean we're looking at Construction [1:05:21] in 2026 anyway so um developers are smart that's they know how to forecast [1:05:27] so we can cast a little bit wider net but being clear about some things that are sacred to us so to speak so look [1:05:33] forward to that at an upcoming meeting and thanks for your ideas commissioner um I just I can't help wishing that [1:05:39] commissioner U was here because I know she has a lot of ideas and so I don't know if it's possible to just reach out [1:05:45] to her ahead of time sure great y we've got plenty time right yep okay all right [1:05:52] you got a few more things you want to accomplish this morning [1:06:05] I do uh jumping on to our next item uh this is our HRA year and review [1:06:11] and uh in your packet uh there is a document um 20 or 30 pages uh it [1:06:18] summarizes um the financial aspects of the HRA as well as some of the projects [1:06:24] all all of the projects that we've been working on uh we've been doing this for several years we updated annually in [1:06:31] January um I spoke with uh commissioner Jackson yesterday and she identified a [1:06:36] couple typos so those are corrected in what's online and we'll get it corrected or that's what's on screen we'll get it [1:06:42] corrected online as well um so thanks for bringing those to my attention um but I've got a brief presentation I'll [1:06:49] show to [1:07:07] okay so year and review um so uh Stephanie Hawkinson and I put this together each year and just you know big [1:07:14] picture overview um but in 2024 similar to 2023 uh the pace uh and the number of [1:07:22] these large scale projects has been slowed from where it was a few years back um uh however one noticeable thing [1:07:30] is chatting with our building department there's been a lot of commercial remodeling this past year um so a lot of [1:07:36] new businesses at one point I spoke with our health inspector they were working on opening a dozen new restaurants that [1:07:44] were mostly remodels um from previous spaces so there's been a lot of activity uh on [1:07:50] this map it shows all the sites of the bigger construction projects um if you compare this to maps [1:07:56] from a couple years ago it's it's slowed down still active still very active um [1:08:03] Redevelopment Finance that's what we're focused on as an HRA and that's a conversation this morning so in August [1:08:10] we had a really good presentation from um ERS Associates we asked them to dive into the impact of Tiff on school [1:08:17] districts something we've talked about for many years but we hired them to actually prepare the report and we [1:08:23] shared that with our colleagues at the schools of course um so this map uh on the screen shows [1:08:29] the 12 current Tiff districts it also shows just for reference the boundaries [1:08:34] of the various school districts that are in Adina so um some of the Tiff districts are in the Adina School [1:08:39] District some are in the Richfield school districts um and these Tiff [1:08:44] districts vary from a length of 15 years to 26 years depending on the on the laws [1:08:50] that were applicable um of course we also have our spark program uh that expired at the end of this year now [1:08:56] December 2025 uh and of course the Housing Trust Fund and the affordable housing programs [1:09:02] uh that continue to move forward I mentioned we have a dozen Tiff [1:09:07] districts uh in comparison this graph is one that you've seen a few times before [1:09:13] uh this compares the city of Adina districts with our peers uh and Neighbors in henan County so we're the [1:09:20] green about 1.6% uh of our tax base is is is within [1:09:25] a tiff District that puts us on the on the low end of the scale we and this is [1:09:31] one matter where we' like to be on the low end um uh the percentage varies year to year [1:09:38] depending on tax value and everything else so the highest that I've ever seen a Diana at one point when Southdale 2 [1:09:44] was active and things were really humming about 5% of our tax base was in a tiff District um but we're currently [1:09:51] at at 1% the big project that finished last year right across the street from City [1:09:56] Hall uh bill can you go back please to the previous slide I just want to highlight I hear frequently from people [1:10:03] who are concerned that we're putting all the Tiff districts in Richfield school districts and I just wanted to point out to the public that it looks like there [1:10:10] are only two of our Tiff districts that are in the Richfield School District at this time and that's 66 West and um the [1:10:17] the newly created one at 7235 France so I just wanted the public to to note that that we're not over [1:10:25] burdening the Richfield School District here correct right and we're when we create a tiff District we're not [1:10:30] targeting one school district or the or the other it's just where that boundary lies um it's an arbit I'll say somewhat [1:10:37] arbitrary boundary at this point that we have no control over Rich rer this is a [1:10:42] really good map and if this is not on our website for Tiff it would be good to [1:10:47] put that up there y it will be after this meeting okay thank you and to that [1:10:52] point of that uh commissioner Jackson raing uh executive director Neil you may want to comment on your past discussions [1:10:59] with his superintendent in Richfield about their view on the these Tiff districts that get created within their [1:11:05] school school district thank you chair um we have a an operating protocol with [1:11:10] the city of Richfield when we have uh something that's happening kind of in that area of of Southdale that's between [1:11:18] France and and their corporate border we share information about what we're looking at I meet with the school [1:11:24] superintend uh Richfield school superintendent annually uh usually in August and we [1:11:29] talk about the various projects tip districts that are in play when there is a a tip District that's being [1:11:36] contemplated uh they get notification uh just like just like a din schools or any other school district would um so we do [1:11:43] have a good uh working relationship with Richfield schools around not just tax increment but around other operating [1:11:49] development uh housing kind of issues too thank you and my recollection is that in the [1:11:56] past they've been very supportive of the things that we're doing from a land use standpoint uh very supportive um they [1:12:02] understand that the their District about 10% of their school district uh is [1:12:08] inside the city of Adina but that accounts for over a third of their total [1:12:14] tax base so it's a it's an important uh piece of land for them sure I just realized in my role I [1:12:22] was out of bounds by saying this should be on the website I I should not be giving direction like that but I really [1:12:28] like them map so it was our intention to do that so we'll have it we'll have it up [1:12:35] there I'd mentioned that the uh the big project that got finished this last year was the mesan green apartments [1:12:43] um uh and the restaurant there um so from a city council perspective you know [1:12:49] land use the mine green is you know it abided by the code but for the h [1:12:54] perspective let's look of the dollars so this chart show or this graph shows the [1:13:01] taxable market value of that property so for the first uh on the left [1:13:06] side I went back to 2020 um uh it had a very low tax base when it [1:13:13] was a mostly vacant Perkins Restaurant um the the restaurant was open but the other three quarters of the building was [1:13:18] vacant since they had moved their headquarters years ago when they were when they had to declare bankruptcy so in [1:13:26] 2023 um the property sold in 2024 it started to be built and [1:13:32] you see this the chart starting to spike and then in 2025 it's measured as being [1:13:38] nearly complete and that's when it really makes that tremendous surge upward um it will go a little bit it'll [1:13:44] go upwards a little bit more next next year uh when the tax assessor sees the full value of it um uh but that that's [1:13:53] why we use tff because we we know that um a property won't just get a coat of [1:13:59] paint and a new tenant it'll make a transformational change to our tax base so in 2022 that property paid $999,000 [1:14:07] in property taxes in 2024 when the site was still considered [1:14:13] a partially by the assessor it was considered a sold property and an [1:14:18] incomplete building the taxes that it paid doubled to over $200,000 in the years ahead when it's [1:14:26] assessed as a occupied building a finished building those dollars will [1:14:31] Skyrocket um the other thing to think about is the conversion from a [1:14:36] commercial space that's subject to fiscal disparities to a mostly residential space that is not subject to [1:14:43] fiscal dis disparities so a reminder the Minnesota fiscal disparity law says that [1:14:49] 40% of the value of a commercial property is subtracted from the City's [1:14:55] tax base and the schools and the counties and it goes directly to the state fiscal disparity pool so that's [1:15:01] great for the pool and a lot of the outside communities but it's not so great for us so converting an older [1:15:07] commercial space to a newer res newer residential makes a big difference to our uh local tax base I also started [1:15:15] monitoring how those tax dollars um are paid out where do they go so um looked [1:15:22] at the last couple years uh again this will change every year but you'll start to see Trends so at the the bottom of [1:15:29] the I'll start from the bottom uh the dark blue color is Hanahan County taxes the orange color is the [1:15:36] city of Adina uh the green uh is AD Public Schools uh the bright blue is the state [1:15:45] taxes and the fiscal disparities and then of course there's all you know smaller districts the mosquito District [1:15:51] the parks Etc um and then Tiff districts so um when the property was transformed [1:15:57] from a older commercial property to a brand new [1:16:04] but even unfinished residential you'll notice the amount that uh was paid out [1:16:11] to the county the schools and the city changed [1:16:17] dramatically so in the in the dark green if you look at the size of the bars of [1:16:23] the dark green before Tiff that dark green was you know it was nice at the [1:16:30] time just by rezoning it and starting and approving the project getting it [1:16:35] changed to multif family the amount to the school district doubled and then when they actually started building it [1:16:41] and this and the fiscal disparities went away it doubled or tripled again so I mean that's something that's kind of [1:16:49] hidden but that's how the numbers actually shake out can you can you go back so I I do like this but I I get [1:16:59] confused still on this um and so [1:17:05] the you've got Tiff on here so I assume Tiff would show up in a 2025 bar uh yeah [1:17:14] Tiff will show up in future years yeah in future years yep okay and so then that makes sense and then we talked [1:17:22] about in the tip District so now I'm thinking I would see what I was hoping to see in future years that's not what [1:17:29] you're showing here uh because we've said [1:17:35] that with a tiff District the the percentage of funds [1:17:41] that go to a school district or to the general fund or what have you is all [1:17:47] different and so I was hoping that I was thinking I was seeing that but I don't [1:17:52] think I am I think I would see that in future for yeah for for this document we Look Backwards we look at actual [1:17:58] performance on the ground rather than future performance in 25 years okay and [1:18:03] so then for 2024 that green bar that because of this [1:18:09] project additional funding did go to the school district because of this project [1:18:14] a tremendous amount of additional funding and then in future years those dollars go to [1:18:22] the tip District well maybe not we'll see how that plays out I haven't done this before so the [1:18:29] first couple years it bobbles up and down yeah I'm not sure what's going to exactly happen next year but I've got [1:18:35] another example that looks at history that might inform us a little bit more but I do like what you're trying to do [1:18:40] here I just wanted we've talked about transparency and impact to the to the various taxing entities in this case [1:18:47] with Tiff and Redevelopment the impact of those taxing agencies is tremendously [1:18:52] positive so stay there for just a second to finish that thought on the school district because what I recall from ERS [1:18:58] saying is that because this the school district is on a per puple formula [1:19:04] they're either getting the money locally they're getting money from the state but they're going to get that per people [1:19:09] amount so what I see Happening Here mean tells me that they're going to get in 2024 they got a little bit more from [1:19:16] local tax than they would have gotten from the state but it doesn't affect their per pupil allocation that's that's [1:19:23] fixed I believe believe so except for levies which will continue on correct [1:19:28] correct okay thanks so another project uh that was finished in 2024 was the first uh Bank [1:19:37] and Trust over in Pentagon Village that building right on the corner of 77th and computer Avenue was was finished uh so [1:19:44] happy to see that wrapped up uh this site we've talked about a lot um uh over [1:19:49] the years um lot two and lot five are still pending unfinished vacant we don't [1:19:55] like that the developer doesn't like that they're still working on it um uh [1:20:00] so they're still out out of the market um uh but also fast forward into one of our updates at the end of today the [1:20:07] hotel site is still mired in a lawsuit and so they that project should [1:20:13] have been finished and it hasn't even started and at this point there is no start date for that one so the owner [1:20:20] recently listed that site for sale and we'll see if they sell it or just testing the waters um but we this is [1:20:27] also a good example of of why we use Tiff notes rather than putting our money [1:20:33] the city's money into the deal um at this point this district is underperforming based on where we [1:20:39] thought it was going to be and that's really unfortunate um it's unfortunate [1:20:44] for the city's aspirations it's unfortunate to the developers pocketbook [1:20:50] not to ours so we're still making payments on the Tiff notes based on the re Revenue that they do generate but the [1:20:56] revenue that they're generating is um much much lower than they were expecting [1:21:02] and so we'll live up to our end of the deal but um the way we structure those deals that how dorsy writes them for us [1:21:09] is we're only obligated to reimburse them for what they create they wanted to [1:21:14] create 10 times more than they did they haven't but that's not our problem that's not our risk so it's it's a good [1:21:22] example of why we have those Protections in our TI contracts um but do look forward for more to more um progress in [1:21:28] the years ahead we're happy to see the Eddie finished all the retails well leas the banks doing well um more to come on [1:21:35] that one uh Stephanie also put some slides [1:21:41] together about affordable housing and how many units we've actually delivered um in the report there's also a slide of [1:21:47] how many units we've as a city council how many you've approved some of those [1:21:52] haven't been built um but it's broken down to the to 10year [1:21:58] segments the the dark blue shows the time periods before we had a mandatory [1:22:04] affordable policy and we got some units built the Orange shows the number of [1:22:10] units actually delivered after the policy was applied and became enforcable um through that [1:22:17] PUD process so um there's still more progress to come but you can see the [1:22:22] dramatic difference of how we can actually create affordable units when we have an enforceable um housing policy [1:22:30] through PUD um this year in the report I also [1:22:36] included a couple other slides I'm going to just go through two of them they they kind of show excuse me commiss rer has a [1:22:42] question could you go back to that last slide okay um at our December meeting on [1:22:48] the consent agenda was the compliance report for affordable housing and I'm [1:22:54] wondering if maybe at our next meeting we can revisit that because it appears that only the Aurora and Nolan Mains are [1:23:01] compliant but that was from that meeting and it's possible other sites have been [1:23:08] brought up to compliancy but it'd be good to have a report on that thank you [1:23:13] right sure we can provide an update happy to do that thank you I also pulled some other data um [1:23:22] some of it's historic and some of it's recent but I just wanted to get it out get it out there um to kind of drive [1:23:28] home the long-term view when we use tax increment financing it's not a one or twoe [1:23:35] solution and you're done it's 25 years typically um so in Centennial Lakes [1:23:40] which um we talked about the Richfield School District all of Centennial Lakes [1:23:45] the housing the office the retail the park that's all in the Richfield School District um so from 1988 to 2013 [1:23:55] when that District was decertified that tax base grew by [1:24:02] 1,560 plus we got the park the shops the doctor's offices and everything else so [1:24:08] that's strategically when a Dina tends to use Tiff for these large Redevelopment sites is to make that [1:24:15] dramatic Leap Forward from us uh when that project was first started the tax [1:24:20] base was just over a quar million dollars when the Tiff District ended the tax capacity was 3.6 million and that [1:24:28] was 10 years ago so it's only increased since then I just wanted to put that out there um similar story in the Grand View [1:24:36] number one District which was the the Condominiums The Office Buildings that type of [1:24:41] thing I also included data on um it's in the report on the lauran performance so [1:24:48] similar this project has just recently finished but the tax base of the Laurent at 44th in France [1:24:55] um grew by over 900% in the last four years um the the line chart on the upper [1:25:03] left shows two things the dark blue is the is the trajectory and the actual um [1:25:10] original capacity so you talk about Tiff the incremental so the dark red line on [1:25:16] the top that's the increment so at um at the direction it was going it the [1:25:22] original capacity would have stayed about the same but you see that it's leaped forward quite a [1:25:27] bit we see the same thing at at 50th in France with the noan mains project uh [1:25:33] that project has grown uh uh uh by by a factor of 15 times from [1:25:41] the time it was started to today or actually to last year and then I I dove into the noan mains a little bit more um [1:25:49] so the if you recall th those properties were tax exempt for about 40 some years [1:25:56] so for that time period they paid nothing to the city the schools the county Etc when we approv the resoning [1:26:03] that project approved the use of Tiff to build the parking ramps and the plazas the value of that property um has gone [1:26:10] upwards uh that's in the uh graph on the on the upper left hand side of the screen and then I also looked into where [1:26:17] the where the tax dollars go um similar to what I I showed earlier so for the [1:26:23] last couple years 2017 2018 there was no tax revenue it was all tax exempt so [1:26:29] when we sold it and actually put it in in private ownership uh it started to pay a a [1:26:35] meager amount of taxes to the city school Etc um and then as we built the [1:26:41] project you'll notice that um the amount of taxes um increased dramatically so [1:26:47] over a 7-year period it went from paying zero to right now their tax bill is over [1:26:53] 1 .2 million a year because we use Tiff to redevelop [1:26:59] that property and get it back to productive use now today that's an active Tiff Tiff District so this bar [1:27:05] chart shows that um the topmost bar it's kind of a black on my screen that's the [1:27:11] money that's being collected in the Tiff District so that's what's being used to repay the debt to build the parking [1:27:17] garages and all all those uh infrastructure items um The Brighter [1:27:22] colors on the bottom of the chart are what's being retained by the city schools County and the [1:27:28] state when the Tiff District expires when all of our debt obligations are paid off that whole value the 1.2 [1:27:35] million will get redistributed and that's when the city school and County really see that big jump so we're not [1:27:42] there yet um but that's what we can expect um but with this one even looking [1:27:49] at the short term um I just I blew up what the local agencies [1:27:55] get um the dark blue or I'm sorry the dark green color on the bottom that's [1:28:01] the Adina School District so they went from just like everyone else they went from receiving nothing in [1:28:08] 2017 we put the property on the tax rolls in 2019 and got a little bit and then the [1:28:14] Tiff District started being active and they you know built the [1:28:19] property so the dollar amount to the to the schools doubled and tripled over over the years even with the use of [1:28:26] Tiff so again we talk about the impact of the schools the impact of the schools is [1:28:32] they've collected more from this site than they ever had for 40 some years and when the Tiff debts are paid off those [1:28:39] Tiff notes and other debt obligations are paid off those numbers will increase dramatically we have to be patient for [1:28:46] that big burst but those are the real world numbers that we're seeing for for two of these [1:28:52] projects so I I'll leave it at that I know we want to wrap up um but that information will be on the website it's [1:28:58] in the uh year and review report um and it's it's interesting to watch these [1:29:03] districts actually evolve um so moving forward we'll be collecting that data on [1:29:08] a more timely basis so expect these kind of charts in in the future reports as well um uh and with that happy to answer [1:29:17] any other questions or wrap it up did you have other updates you wanted to give on 7250 France and anything else on [1:29:24] Pentagon Village yeah I I hit Pentagon Village the only update on 7250 France is is good news so after a couple years [1:29:31] and a lot of hand ringing and a lot of stress uh they closed on their financing for that office building so they closed [1:29:38] on December 31st um uh probably a few minutes before the banks closed on [1:29:44] December 31st but uh they have their loan they have their Equity uh so expect [1:29:49] to see uh construction on that on that site in the next couple weeks couple months months um they'll first have to [1:29:56] mobilize uh if you recall they left part of the foundation in place so that the [1:30:01] road didn't collapse so the first steps on that site will be to to install temporary Shoring so that the road [1:30:09] remains stable then they'll come in and finish the found removing the foundations then they start building the [1:30:15] new so look forward to a groundbreaking sometime in the spring hopefully on a nice warm day um but in the meantime [1:30:21] there'll be some uh there'll be some work out there in the next few months getting the site ready and getting it moving forward um but that that's a [1:30:28] great news piece I wanted to to bring It Forward um these projects aren't easy [1:30:33] even when we pledge Tiff even when we rezone it the developers worked for year [1:30:39] for a couple years to get that financing secured and so um uh their efforts have [1:30:45] paid off and we'll all benefit from that when it's finished and have they got their building permit I don't know if [1:30:50] they've picked it up I know it's ready it's ready they hav okay well it's it's ready it's it's been [1:30:57] authorized for issuance they just need to pick it up okay and pay us p and pay [1:31:03] us yes sometimes that's Mr Jackson has a question uh yes thank you Mr chair um [1:31:09] one other question related to the end of the year and review report at the end you've got other HRA related programs um [1:31:17] on page 26 and going forward can are those funded through Tiff funds or can [1:31:23] you brief briefly tell me where the funds for these programs come from I'm sorry I didn't I thought of [1:31:29] this this morning I didn't have a chance to prep for it sure sure the um uh well [1:31:35] the spark funds are monies that uh are already collected so those originally were Tiff increment dollars that were [1:31:41] collected so they're sitting in a investment bank account right now just waiting um uh the other uh Revenue um [1:31:51] well the H H has a small tax Levy that we that we use for various efforts and [1:31:57] then with the affordable housing trust fund um uh Stephanie can remind us how that is [1:32:03] funded a lot of the project the housing projects the rehab loan program and others um are funded through the [1:32:09] affordable housing trust fund and those are the buyin funds and the last buyin infusion we received was when the Fred [1:32:17] um what got their permit uh so those funds are diminishing [1:32:24] um and then the Comcast program um was funded with arpa okay so I just want to you people [1:32:32] have been complaining about the use of Tiff dollars pooled Tiff dollars is [1:32:37] opaque and um so these programs it looks like there are nine of them um funded [1:32:43] from these various sources from Spark from our Levy and from the affordable [1:32:49] housing trust fund and so um and that's from the buyin program that's funded [1:32:54] through that um so I just want to be transparent about when we [1:33:01] pull Tiff dollars what happens to it and it looks like primarily that's in the spark fund at this point which has a [1:33:07] limited time before it gets redistributed correct correct okay great thank you did you have anything you want [1:33:14] to cover for 2025 um do you feel it with party no I think [1:33:20] we've got it covered all right okay good well so thank you for that we're right at we're right at the magic hour here so [1:33:27] just wanted to make sure that you had covered everything you wanted to cover all right do we have anything for the go to the order uh Mr executive director [1:33:34] any comments the only thing I'll mention is that we did ask in in um today's agenda packet if you have ideas uh of [1:33:41] subject matter you'd like to cover at HRA u in 2025 we gave you a couple of [1:33:47] examples that we think you want to hear but if there are others uh just let us know and and we'll we're always working [1:33:53] working on our Advanced calendar and we can get those ready okay thank you any uh H Commissioners have comments this [1:34:00] morning for the good of the order all right is there a motion to adjourn so moved second commissioner Jackson moves [1:34:07] and commissioner Pier seconds the adjournment of the hre meeting for the city of viina this Thursday January 16 [1:34:13] 2024 at 9:03 a.m. uh any further discussion all those in favor of adjournment say I I I [1:34:20] opposed carried We Stand adjourned you