[0:28] all right here we Hello folks we got a green light and uh we got all of our wardes and families and friends seated

[0:35] in the back it's going to be an exciting part of the evening so let's get this meeting going well good evening everybody and

[0:42] welcome to the Adina City Council meeting it is Tuesday March 18th 2025 our new digital clock says it's 7:02 p.m

[0:50] and um as Director Benerrod said we are doing these meetings in a hybrid fashion

[0:55] and some folks may be watching on cable TV or on on

[1:00] YouTube.comv uh they're going to be able to participate uh uh remotely here with

[1:05] respect to um uh community comment we don't have any public hearings this

[1:11] evening and so they'll have one opportunity to participate and we'll first visit with folks from our uh

[1:18] community that are here this evening that have concerns they want to comment on and then um uh so having provided

[1:25] that information um I'm going to call the meeting to order and ask our cler Sharon Allison to call the role council

[1:31] member Agy here council member Jackson here council member Pierce here council member Risser here mayor Hublin here

[1:38] next is the pledge of allegiance algiance to the flag of the

[1:46] United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation

[1:52] under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all

[1:57] thanks everybody we have a form of meeting agenda that's

[2:05] been published in advance of the meeting so people had an opportunity to know in our community what's what's the city

[2:10] council working on on uh March 18th and the council has seen it as well of

[2:16] course uh is there anyone that wishes to modify the meeting agenda any form or fashion from a staff or a council

[2:22] standpoint is there a motion to approve the meeting agenda as published so moved a second jackson moves member Agnu

[2:29] seconds the adoption of the meeting agenda is published any further discussion those in favor of adopting the meeting agenda is published say I i

[2:36] opposed carried uh the meeting agenda is adopted uh in its published form and now

[2:42] we'll go to community comment which um is comes up rather quickly here i'm going to have that number go up on the

[2:48] screen uh once again for people that might be calling in so they can they can see that and uh write those numbers down

[2:55] uh but I think next we will go to a community comment from folks that are here in the audience that are uh wishing

[3:02] to speak to the council on a matter of concern to

[3:21] them good evening mayor council members my name is Ralph Zickert i live at 4311

[3:28] Cornelia Circle first a shout out to John Carlson john is an Adina resident

[3:35] and during community comment he asked a question about the use of tax increment financing referred to as Adina's spark

[3:43] fund john's question prompted this response by manager Neil

[3:50] what is shocking about Neil's reply is that it reads like the Minnesota State Statute yes you heard me correctly

[3:58] neil's reply reads exactly like the Minnesota State Statute unfortunately his reply is the

[4:06] opposite of what he and staff have previously told the council over and

[4:11] over and over again for the last two years

[4:16] neil and his staff have been harpies pushing the mantra "Use it or lose it

[4:22] use it or lose it use it or lose it." But that is not not what the state

[4:28] statute says the state statute says "Use it or

[4:35] return it." Yes use it or return it to the tiff district from where it came in

[4:40] a Dina's case some $8 million of spark funding came from Southdale 2 tiff

[4:46] district a tiff district that continues to hold 11 million monies deemed too precious by

[4:55] city staff to return to the county an action that would result in roughly

[5:01] onethird or $3.5 million flowing back to Adina as unrestricted funds which in

[5:08] turn could be used to address Adina's $50 million backlog of deferred

[5:14] maintenance but no better to use the $1 million to jumpstart construction of the

[5:20] pedestrian tunnel under France creating yet another structure to maintain

[5:26] unfortunately relying on Neil's false narrative much of the damage is already

[5:31] done council has scured to throw millions of dollars at unvetted ill-advised projects like the innovation

[5:38] lab and the $4.8 million gift of tiff to

[5:44] the developer of a still idle US bank site what a shame that each year hundreds of

[5:50] thousands of dollars go to city staff and consultants like Ellers and Dorsy

[5:56] only for residents like John to prompt the uncovering of this egregious misrepresentation of state statute so

[6:04] thank you John for your question during community comment my question tonight and it's a

[6:10] question for the council not Mr neil when does untruthfulness result in

[6:17] consequences and given the millions of dollars spent under false pretenses I

[6:23] believe a robust response would be warranted in the same chambers in which the final vote of approval occurred

[6:30] thank you thank you Mr zickert

[6:49] i was trying to make this

[6:57] thank you good evening my name is Nora Davis and I live at

[7:02] 6921 Southdale Road in the Lake Cornelia neighborhood you may want to check out

[7:09] my backyard this is a photo that I took from my house pointed toward the 4040

[7:16] building and I'm here tonight because of something that was said at last

[7:22] community comment um my South Cornelia neighbor indicated that the neighbor the

[7:29] neighborhood didn't know anything about the fourth floor and that statement was

[7:36] refuted by city staff and I'm here to say tonight our neighborhood was told again

[7:45] and again and again that this was going to be three stories with a setback to a

[7:53] fourth three stories they kept saying three stories they kept saying but one

[8:00] day one of my alert neighbors is looking up and there is construction on the

[8:05] fourth floor she did contact the city there was much investigation and it was

[8:12] discovered that after the city council had approved this in

[8:19] 2021 the developer went to the planning department with changes and those

[8:26] changes were were completed and done the unfortunate thing is neighborhood didn't

[8:32] know anything about it city council didn't know anything about it so it was a very uncomfortable

[8:39] situation and then it happened again we were told in fact the whole city was

[8:46] told that 4040 was going to be for Edina

[8:51] seniors who wanted to stay in Edina when they decided to retire or

[8:59] downsize but when the legal papers were signed there was no talk of

[9:06] seniors there was talk of 55 aged people and talk and actually an

[9:14] agreement with Henipin County for six units for homeless people and six units

[9:21] for hard to house people and as we all know when the residents

[9:27] started coming there were issues there were disturbances

[9:33] uh theft warrant arrests a lot of police calls but the

[9:40] most frightening thing of all was that arson fire on the night of December 3rd

[9:48] i cannot imagine how frightened those residents were when fire trucks are

[9:55] there there's pounding on the building the fire alarms are going off and

[10:00] there's smoke and water in the hallways that never should have happened that was

[10:06] way way too frightening and it's become an issue for surrounding businesses and

[10:14] the neighborhood our Lake Cornelia and South Cornelia neighborhoods are pretty

[10:20] special places and I kind of feel like they have a target on their back we are

[10:26] dealing with increased crime with noise traffic and then the trees that were

[10:33] taken down at 7200 that was absolutely painful i think it's time that there is

[10:41] an impact committee set up that looks at each of these developments and talks

[10:47] about how these developments actually impact the neighborhoods our Miss Davis I need to

[10:54] have you wrap up i've let you go way over your three minutes i know and I confess I did yeah um but again we are a

[11:01] missing middle neighborhood a very diverse neighborhood but we seem to be

[11:07] under attack all the time and I'm finding that frightening thank you thank you

[11:17] thank you

[11:24] anyone else do you have anybody online Dr ben nobody online

[11:33] okay all right our usual practice is that uh comments that were made at the

[11:38] prior city council meeting by our concerned residents um are addressed by the end of that week of that council

[11:45] meeting uh online on the city website and then we follow up with a verbal report here from the city manager on

[11:52] some of those comments that were made and and at least one of the commenters tonight was the same was a commenter I

[11:57] think two weeks ago and uh somewhat the same topic but um manager Neil I'll turn

[12:04] it to you now to address some of those issues that were raised at the prior city council meeting by concerned residents thank you your honor uh we had

[12:12] three questions at the March 4th uh meeting first question was how is the HR

[12:17] budget shared with the public uh the HA is a separate uh advisory uh entity

[12:24] within our city government the uh governing board of the HA is the same as the governing board of the city council

[12:30] and the city council appoints the governing board of the HA uh the HR prepares a budget along a similar not

[12:36] exactly the same but a similar timeline and time frame uh each year and has to

[12:42] go through the same kind of development or excuse me HA approval and council approvals uh before it becomes an

[12:48] official uh budget document uh it includes uh sometimes a capital

[12:54] improvement plan uh as well as an operating budget uh for our HR and and

[12:59] the HA finances are reported up through our comprehensive uh financial audit

[13:05] every year and and they are included in that audit report so you'll see that when uh that report comes back uh from

[13:12] our independent auditors back to the city council uh the second question was can spark funds uh be returned to the

[13:19] general fund and used for crimerevention safety uh the answer to that is no uh

[13:25] the spark is a program called special projects and redevelopment capital fund or spark is the acronym

[13:31] spc developed uh by the um housing and development authority and it was a way

[13:37] to try to uh bring some new dollars into or some existing dollars into the

[13:43] economic development sphere in in the community and comes kind of out of that co uh pandemic time frame so we can't

[13:50] use those spark funds for the purposes of of uh general fund expenditures on

[13:56] crime prevention and safety uh and I will say at this time our spark funds have been committed to specific projects

[14:02] already if any spark funds are unspent by the end of 2025 they revert to the tiff fund that they were where they

[14:09] originated final question was uh recently a developer removed trees that

[14:14] were uh that were to have been left on a property can the city implement stricter oversight measures to ensure this sort

[14:21] of thing does not happen again uh we uh when we permit a project or we do a a

[14:28] capital project ourselves we often have uh inspectors that are on those sites but they're not on the site all the time

[14:35] and and it would not be uh financially feasible for us to have inspectors on

[14:41] projects whether they're public or private every minute of every day it would just cost too much and be too

[14:47] difficult to staff so there is an element of trust and there is an element of of we verify certain uh key uh times

[14:54] and events and milestones in in a project um but in terms of this particular item you're going to hear a

[15:00] little bit more about that uh actually a lot more about that in um in the next in

[15:06] in this meeting sometime so I'll leave it at that and we'll talk about the actual details for that project later

[15:13] okay thanks for that um tonight we heard uh Mr zickert talk

[15:19] about uh use it or lose it compared to use it or return it that was maybe a

[15:25] loose sort of expression that our economic development director used it or lose it uh on the spark funds but you

[15:33] know I think we all knew what he meant was that Adina had the opportunity to use these funds and deploy them before

[15:40] December 31 of 2025 or they would go back to the county right so there wasn't any intention to mislead uh the public

[15:47] about uh is is the way I interpreted it as to what would happen with those funds

[15:54] uh that were unspent by December 31 2025 and Neil is that Well they would go back

[16:00] to the tip not necessarily to the county they could go back to the county if the council made that back to the go to the

[16:06] district right yeah but and if the district is descertified then they would go back to the county member Risser um

[16:14] when I came on board it was very specific there was a time crunch and I

[16:20] think if I went back through meetings and um presentations it was consistent

[16:25] it would go back to Henipin County and that was the message that I received

[16:31] early on i've heard it probably between 30 and 50 times and I remember um most

[16:40] recently staff saying why can't he Dina keep it and um I think we even had a

[16:46] presentation from Ellers about the whole mechanics of TIFF and if

[16:54] it goes back to the county you only get a third of it and I think you know that

[16:59] that messaging was there and I think if we went back through presentations we would see very clearly that we were

[17:05] being told it would have to be returned to the county if we didn't spend it so I'd like a little more reflection on

[17:12] this you know not necessarily tonight but if that really was the case why weren't why wasn't that corrected

[17:21] um right away it just it is frustrating

[17:26] thank you thanks for that yeah manager Neil you might want to clear that up because it it might have been a representation that it was going back to

[17:32] the county because the tiff district it would go back to was descertified or would would be

[17:39] closed up and it would have to go back by state law i don't know that it might have been a shortcut version of saying

[17:44] what would have happened from a process standpoint but I don't know that to member Risser we can answer member's

[17:49] question i I think we can tr when we try to answer tiff questions it's important to to the language obviously is very

[17:57] important it depends on on whether that district has been descertified or not if

[18:02] it's been descertified then yes that money goes back to Henipin County and then is distributed back to the uh

[18:09] taxing bodies in a kind of a prata form um we can bring more expertise to this

[18:15] uh question if you wish and we we will plan to do that at our next council meeting i'm not looking for I'm looking

[18:22] for clarity i want to know if we can get funds from TIFF back to the county

[18:31] and maybe it could be a portion of a descertified TIFF district maybe we wouldn't have to close it out but we do

[18:37] have 11 million sitting there and to Mr ziggard's point that could be money that

[18:43] could be used to help address some of our deferred maintenance thank you thank you member Pierce member

[18:50] no I think I'm good thank you i I think for me I I feel like

[18:58] we have very good clarity around TIFF districts whether certifi

[19:04] currently in action or descertified um so I appreciate that distinction i think

[19:09] for me the open question is in relation to the spark funds because we don't have

[19:14] that full traceability of which tiff district those would have come from and

[19:20] I think that might help close the loop on you know let's say we had a million dollars left in spark if that spark

[19:28] would then go back to a tiff district does that is that tiff district already descertified and if so it would go back

[19:34] to the county and be distributed in thirds that's how I understand it as well So just to close the loop on that

[19:40] just to validate that it would be going to a descertified TIFF district as opposed to one of the existing open TIFF

[19:47] districts that we have right if it came from a TIF district that was later

[19:53] descertified if it's not if it's not committed during the time frame then it would go back to the county that's true

[20:00] and so just the clarification on for a million dollars left over in sparks at the end of this year would that be going

[20:07] back to a descertified TIFF fund district or not i think I would like to

[20:12] talk to to Bill Nuendorf about that to make sure I'm answering the the right question with the right answer because I

[20:19] think your instincts are right member that the spark funds were an an accumulation or aggregation of funds

[20:25] from different districts mhm and so what the status of those district is

[20:30] districts is is a good question but in any case those monies can't come back to

[20:38] uh for the purpose that was requested right crime crime fighting or law enforcement kind of activities

[20:46] i was just just adding they're restricted for use if they do come back

[20:52] right um I guess the only thing I I that's just my personal opinion it's

[20:59] dangerous for us to pontificate about an issue like that without all the details

[21:04] so I appreciate you manager Neil saying this is how you're interpreting it but

[21:10] you'd want to get back um so you can come back with the more specific answers

[21:15] so I appreciate that while we're on this portion of the

[21:20] agenda I think Director Tegan I'm looking at you the one of the questions that uh resident Norah Davis raised or

[21:28] the assertions that she made was that on 4040 flats that it should have been three stories not four stories that's

[21:33] the very issue we addressed at the last meeting and uh you know I think it would be

[21:38] worthwhile having you restate the answer you gave last time as to why uh at the

[21:44] staff level it was approved that there was a change and in fact that that was reviewed

[21:49] uh staff change was reviewed carefully by I think an independent consultant to see if it was or was not in compliance

[21:55] with the approved plan yes the the city code allows staff to make certain

[22:01] changes after a final approval there was

[22:07] I don't want to I don't recall the exact details but the changes fell within that

[22:13] discretion that staff has my recollection was they were talking about adding an entire story which wasn't true

[22:20] it was always a four-story building there was just some shifting around of parts of that fourthstory that fell

[22:27] within that within that threshold um for staff to be able to make that

[22:33] determination member Jackson I seem to remember that

[22:39] it was a sound issue that there was a patio and they decided it would be better for the neighborhood to put the patio towards the commercial side

[22:48] that sounds right y All right um very good i think other

[22:54] things you can hold over and you can answer the end of this week online and then come back to the city council with

[23:02] some of those um responses to some of the uh concerns of member or Mr

[23:11] rickert um and incidentally we we worked Saturday all day Saturday on on budget

[23:17] issues all of us as council many staff there were some citizens there including Mr zicker and uh one of the things we

[23:25] talked about in terms of revenue production was something that staff worked on but it was also something that he had raised as an issue and in

[23:30] fairness to Mr zicker I'd say uh thanks to that idea relative from his

[23:36] perspective relative to um if the countyy's recovering the cost of credit card fees we should be thinking about

[23:42] that as well so um I know staff has thought about that too um all right

[23:48] let's go now to the uh consent agenda and um uh member Risser wanted to pull items

[23:56] 6.4 and 6.5 with which deal with the U pedestrian bridge that's going to be

[24:02] going over the cross town the replacement bridge and uh with the

[24:07] exception is there anyone else that wishes to remove an item from the consent agenda other than 6.4 and

[24:13] 6.5 is there a motion to approve the balance of the items on the consent agenda in a single motion with the exception of items 6.4 and 6.5 so moved

[24:22] second member moves member Pierce seconds the adoption of all the items on the consent agenda in a single motion

[24:28] with the exception of 6.4 and 6.5 any further discussion all those in

[24:33] favor of adoption of the motion is stated say I i opposed carried motion's approved uh the items on the consent

[24:40] agenda are adopted and approved except for 6.4 4 and 6.5 which are linked

[24:45] together uh one was a request for um uh additional services related to steel

[24:51] trusses and engineering and then one for architectural services related to the bridge and I'm going to turn now to

[24:56] member Risser to uh uh to address some what some of her concerns are here with

[25:02] respect to those two items member Risser and it does kind of pertain to the budget and everything that's been on our

[25:07] minds for the past couple of days and um I am primarily concerned about cost and

[25:12] just wanting to be assured that you know what we are proposing and moving forward

[25:19] with staff is confident that we are going to be able to do with the money that has been provided by through Mandot

[25:26] funding and we're not going to go over budget and I know I did hear from a couple residents about that so we're at

[25:32] 30% and it looks like we need to up the expenditure on this go from

[25:41] $88,000 to $128,000 and I'm wondering do you anticipate seeing I mean are you going

[25:48] to be are we going to be seeing another increase and another um maybe just kind

[25:54] of dig down on this a little bit yep so we're at about 30% design and these expenditures are expected these were in

[26:00] that $6 million budget with the three million from Mindot like you mentioned and three million from a legislative

[26:06] appropriation so at this point in time we are still trending to be within that $6 million budget

[26:12] you're pretty confident that we will be able to do that throughout the whole project uh it's too early to tell too

[26:19] early are we going to put stairs on the facility are we going to have to Is Mindot going to require some different

[26:24] things to attach the architectural features over the roadway right now our estimates say yes but we still have a

[26:30] long ways to go to get final design and if anything impacts those budgets we'll be back with the city council to have a

[26:36] conversation about that okay thank you um with respect to 6.4 which is a

[26:42] request for purchase for the Rosen Park pedestrian bridge uh steel and trust and

[26:48] engineering services related is there a motion to adopt item 6.4 so move second

[26:54] we got a motion by member Risser second by member Jackson to adopt item 6.4 on

[26:59] the consent agenda any further discussion all those in favor of adopting 6.4 say I i i opposed carried

[27:06] 6.4 is adopted 6.5 is a request for purchase for change order number one for

[27:11] the Rosland Park pedestrian bridge for architectural services uh is there a motion to adopt that request for

[27:17] purchase move second we had a motion and second to approve the request for purchase for item 6.5 on the consent

[27:23] agenda related to architectural services for the Rosland Park pedestrian bridge any further discussion all those in

[27:29] favor of adoption of item 6.5 on the consent agenda say I i i opposed carried

[27:35] item 6.5 is adopted change orders approved all right that completes items on the consent agenda and now we are on

[27:42] to um uh this great gathering of folks we have uh all started uh with some really nice

[27:49] recognitions on February 22nd unfortunately I had I was out of town

[27:54] and I think some of you may have attended that evening and had a wonderful time it's the second time

[28:00] we've done this uh recognizing police officer of the year firefighter of the year and public safety employee of the

[28:05] year and and we're going to have uh we've got families and friends and we've got uh colleagues and fellow staff

[28:13] members from the uh fire department and the police department with us tonight and first we're going to turn to our

[28:20] fire chief Andrew Slam to recognize Dan Schlick as the 2024 firefighter of the

[28:26] year and uh you're not going to have to worry about that name tag

[28:31] um we're we're going to we're going to cover everybody here knows who you are

[28:37] and everybody has greatly appreciated that appreciative of the fact that you have been uh determined to be

[28:44] firefighter of the year it's really quite a great honor and so Chief I'll turn to you good evening Mayor members

[28:51] of the council uh we're here on a special night to recognize a number of public safety employees so bear with

[28:57] Chief Milurn and I as we get get through these and uh and read the awards so the this year's firefighter of the year is

[29:04] Dan Schlick uh who's standing here next to me he's here with his family uh to recognize Dan tonight uh Dan joined the

[29:10] Adina Fire Department in February 2019 from the from the start he's been focused on the success of the fire

[29:16] department's operations as well as the readiness of his partners and equipment dan has worked continually to enhance

[29:23] Edina's operations through his dedication to training and education an example of his

[29:29] work during the complete overhaul of the fire department's protocols he partnered

[29:34] with other members and medical and the medical director to rewrite our entire fire department protocol

[29:40] book dan utilized his knowledge of the best practices in medicine to ensure the

[29:45] citizens of Edina receive the top level care when needed the most the process will now be completely will be completed

[29:52] annually to ensure the standard of care provided by our Adina paramedics remains exceptional dan introduced new

[29:58] technology to update the process for ordering medical supplies as well as evaluating our upcoming supply needs

[30:06] previously the department used a paper list to document current and upcoming

[30:12] medical supply needs the new system that Dan spearheaded implemented created an

[30:17] an ordering model that anyone in the fire department can utilize the process has become easier allowing gen greater

[30:24] accountability redu and reduce waste dan is able to demonstrate his leadership with the EMS committee and active

[30:31] support of his peers his organization and his attention to detail he described

[30:36] as a guy who catches all the stuff with his ability to recognize little things that need to get done in the following

[30:43] and following through to completion dan has a demonstration of passion for ensuring that other members of the fire

[30:49] department have everything that they need he looks for opportunities for continued growth and progressive

[30:55] performance of his peers he's worked to maintain relationships with outside agencies and personnel that support the

[31:01] fire department's mission of serving the community by protecting lives property and environment and safe and efficient

[31:07] professional manager some of these agencies are the local hospital systems other medical personnel and the Adina

[31:14] Police Department dan values these relationships and understands the importance that they have in providing

[31:19] excellent service he's been an essential member of the Edina fire department throughout his career and was a crucial

[31:25] lynchpin during a year when Edina EMS needed consistency dan demonstrated

[31:30] stability and reliability and displays his organiza organizational excellence

[31:35] clear communication and a dedication to constant improvement for not just himself but his partners and the fire

[31:42] department as a whole dan Schlick was presented the 2024 firefighter of the year award and he wished for nothing

[31:49] else than to say a few words to you tonight all right Dan

[32:00] Slick thanks Chief of course I like talking uh I I'm very humbled to get

[32:08] this award for my peers uh I wasn't expecting it i really just kind of do all this stuff to make sure that we're

[32:14] the best department we're able to take care of everybody the best we can so um glad that they can rely on me and all

[32:22] that stuff but just another day so appreciate it thank you

[32:38] yeah thank you to uh mayor council members chief Milbourne with the police department i have the honor and the

[32:43] privilege to present to you tonight our officer of the year the crime prevention fund has presented an award the the Mike

[32:50] Satari officer of the year award annually since 2011 to recognize exceptional officers deserving of

[32:55] special recognition the award is named after Mike Satari who served as police chief from 1999 to 2009 during his

[33:02] 31-year tenure with the United Police Department this award is presented annually recognizing officers who have

[33:07] gone above and beyond the call of duty the 15th recipient of the officer of the year award is Shawn

[33:14] Young shawn joined the Adina Police Department in April 2011 during his time

[33:19] this time at the Adina Police Department Shawn has spent that time in a variety of different positions such as field

[33:25] training officer reserve coordinator cadet mentor Kanan officer and most

[33:30] recently retail crimes investigator shawn is an informal leader in all these positions and exemplifies what is

[33:36] expected from any dynamic officer shawn has been the coordinator of our reserve program for 10 years and during this

[33:42] time he assisted in the development of dozens of reserve officers who are volunteers for our department shawn

[33:48] coordinates the budget training equipment and the use of of reserves for special events and extra patrol presence

[33:54] shawn has a high level of commitment to these individuals and respects their passion for bettering the identic

[33:59] community through the work of their efforts while many officers demonstrate a passion for their job especially a

[34:05] specialy position Shaun's unwavering commitment to public safety and community engagement during his time as

[34:10] a canine handler shawn spent eight years of his career as a canine handler with his canine partner Blitz during that

[34:17] time Shawn Blitz responded to over 650 calls for service consistently ensuring safety and well-being of our officers

[34:23] and community members shawn brought his knowledge of canine related case law as well as the uh as the dynamics of

[34:29] tactics and tracking suspects safely and efficiently to every call he responded to shawn worked with a variety of

[34:35] officers from within the Edina along with outside agencies to track and locate suspects narcotics and firearms

[34:41] with ease his commitment to the K9 program was also evident during the annual K9 trials where Shawn and Blitz

[34:47] typically finished towards the top of the rankings and received top awards on multiple occasions

[34:52] this success can only be attributed to the off hours and training that Shawn has conducted with Blitz alongside his devotion to the program currently Shawn

[35:00] has immersed himself in the retail crimes investigator position this position placed him in the South Mel

[35:05] responding to immediate calls for service from retailers and following up on past action complaints shawn put in

[35:11] for this position knowing that he would be one of the first in this role and would set the pace for success for future officers in 2024 Shawn

[35:18] effectively managed a heavy case load arresting over 130 individuals showcasing his continued dedication to

[35:24] addressing retail crime shawn partnered with outside agencies to develop investigative leads address targeted

[35:30] retail crime concerns and make arrest shawn also built strong and trusting relationships with many of the retailers

[35:36] inside Southdale Mel his proactive approach has been instrumental in fostering cooperation and trust which

[35:42] has proven vital in combating retail crime the relationship Shawn has made will continue long past Shawn's time in

[35:49] the position and will allow for continued future success for any officer taking over as retail crimes

[35:54] investigator moving forward officer Sha Young's professionalism proactive work and dedication to building meaningful

[36:00] connections within both law enforcement and business communities sets him apart as truly deserving of this distinguished

[36:06] award please join me in congratulating Officer Shawn Young as a 2024 Mike Satary Officer of the Year very good

[36:20] sean John Sean also wants to provide a speech

[36:27] thank you i had to prepare a very uh very small speech um thank you so much i

[36:33] just want to say a few words i'm extremely honored to receive this award uh June of this year will be 20 years as

[36:38] a police officer uh for me so that's uh this award means a lot to me uh Chief

[36:44] City Council Mayor thank you for having us tonight to be recognized i want to thank the crime fund for all the

[36:49] opportunities you provide our department um being a K9 handler was always a dream of mine um and without the crime fund I

[36:57] would not have been able to have K9 Blitz as my partner for almost nine years uh K9 will always be the highlight

[37:02] of my career and I'm thankful for the opportunity thank you to my three wonderful children who are here tonight

[37:09] uh they had to put up with the crazy nights um crazy hours over the years and they always supported me um to my

[37:16] parents my mom who's watching uh in South Dakota hello and last I just want

[37:21] to thank my partners at work who truly make this job enjoyable and uh worth coming to work every day so thank you

[37:36] all right last uh the last you're going to hear from you tonight the public safety employee of the year award is

[37:42] presented annually to a nonsworn employee of the police or fire department who has exemplified an

[37:48] organizational values ideals and dedication to serving the citizens of Edina tonight I have Andrew Leventure a

[37:54] resident of Edina his family is here in the back also here to recognize him andrew Leventure joined the Edina Fire

[38:00] Department in August 2012 as a volunteer firefighter where he served until April 2021 in May 2021 he became the

[38:08] communications unit leader during his time in this position Andrew has worked

[38:13] to improve the citywide messaging during specific emergencies and he's further prepared members of the both fire and

[38:20] police department in emergency management to reduce the

[38:25] impact of the disasters of the citizens in Edina the Adina Dispatch Center which

[38:30] provides service to police and fire previously held capabilities for alerting staff members and citizens for

[38:36] emergencies and safety messaging which is known as RAVE or Smart 911 andrew

[38:42] recognized that this technology has not was not being used to its full potential and took it upon himself to research

[38:49] more about the program and its capabilities andrew discovered a large area of untapped potential that would

[38:54] benefit staff and residents andrew worked with the communications department along with representatives

[39:01] from police fire dispatch to create to create a staff training program as well

[39:07] as monthly repetitions to ensure police and fire staff were comfortable using the technology taking it one step

[39:14] further Andrew coordinated a statewide rave smart 911 user group a group that

[39:19] was also convened today for the second uh the second training that of this group

[39:25] that group shared "You use your knowledge of the system to for improvements for communities all throughout Minnesota." Edina has since

[39:32] been able to more effectively notify residents to emergencies impacting their neighborhoods and all of that was made

[39:39] possible with the attention to detail for this project and and that was all showcased by Andrew emergency management is an

[39:47] underutilized skill that is both low in frequency and high in risk andrew recognized areas of improvement within

[39:53] our emergency management systems for the city and prepared a training environment in December of of last year that allowed

[40:00] members from every department and division to be present the training allowed attendees to learn in a trusting

[40:06] and professional environment while challenging each person to identify gaps that could create challenges during a

[40:11] real world event andrew is described as someone who exemplifies good customer service always being polite and

[40:18] professional to everyone he interacts with he is quick to respond to requests for assistance and provides regular

[40:24] process updates he treats everyone with respect regardless of the stress he

[40:29] encounters in his work as a pilot and a communications unit leader within the

[40:35] city of Edina andrew's commitment to the advan advancement of communication through

[40:41] technology his professionalism and dedication to improving all members of the police and fire departments in

[40:47] emergency management preparedness demonstrate why he is the public safety

[40:52] employee of the year in 2024 all right Andrew

[41:03] for the record I was told no speeches but uh uh Mr mayor council members thank

[41:09] you for taking the time to recognize all of us tonight uh we truly appreciate it a few weeks ago at the banquet um I was

[41:15] taken a back and I wasn't expecting it and there was a little shell shock and I left out one key uh thing in my speech

[41:21] when I went up to the podium and it was a thank you to my wife and my family uh for all they do to support me so I can

[41:26] do this work and so now it's on camera it's on YouTube forever we recognize them but um I truly love

[41:34] coming to work in the city of Adina and making things better every single day so thank you so much i appreciate it yeah

[41:39] thanks Andrew so I think we're going to we're going to do some photos now and I think

[41:46] we should have the whole council come down with the three award winners and the chiefs and then uh is that Denny

[41:52] back there denny but it's not

[41:59] i'll go down here and have

[42:11] Yeah well I think the council we're going to do one of each

[42:28] we're going to do one we're get the star of the show all right Julie come in just a tiny bit okay there we go

[42:40] say smile smile smile all right next

[43:00] you're the star of the show all right great job Andrew

[43:16] smile Sean that's

[43:26] you guys in the center of

[43:36] like uh really sideways skinny everybody in okay there we

[43:52] go [Music]

[44:03] anybody else [Music]

[44:21] all right sideway skinny sideway skinny

[44:33] 16

[44:41] all right thank you [Applause]

[45:02] breaking down a little bit more

[45:16] [Applause]

[45:35] all right

[45:43] all right everybody congratulations [Music]

[45:59] [Applause]

[46:07] congratulations again

[46:25] a little bit i can't do it myself okay

[46:33] yes

[46:39] next on the agenda we've got our sustainability manager Marissa Bayer with us this evening and she has a

[46:46] really comprehensive report on the uh on the work we've been doing around greenhouse gas reduction and and trying

[46:53] to reduce energy usage and uh we're making progress we're uh it's

[46:59] not easy but but we've got some really wonderful information i think some things to be really proud of and so

[47:05] thanks for uh guiding this department and guiding the city on these areas that are so important to all every one of us

[47:11] on the council and our entire community that has told the city council and you

[47:17] know this is an important issue for us this whole environmental issue so great well yeah thank you mayor thank you

[47:22] council members again my name is Marissa Bayer i'm the sustainability manager here in Edina and I'm going to be doing

[47:28] the annual sustainability update so I'll walk through um some information related to implementation of our climate action

[47:33] plan as well as an update to our greenhouse gas emissions goals and and progress towards that climate action

[47:39] plan goal that we have so just as a reminder the climate action plan was adopted in 2021 and sets a vision for

[47:46] Edida to help all those who live and work in our community imagine and achieve a future where Earth and all who

[47:51] live on it thrive to achieve this there were eight sectors identified in the climate action plan across 36 strategies

[47:58] 218 actions and nine years to achieve and implement um that goes out to

[48:04] 2030 those eight sectors uh so we have transportation land use buildings and energy waste management water wastewater

[48:11] local food and agriculture green space and trees climate health and safety and climate economy so across all these

[48:16] sectors we have different strategies and actions that we're working to implement for context we see that top row those

[48:23] are the sectors where we're able to have measurable trackable greenhouse gas emission reductions this is what the

[48:28] basis of how we set our goal and where we track our progress the bottom row those are uh tangential to our climate

[48:34] reduction they definitely help towards greenhouse gas emission reductions but much harder to kind of measure and quantify like that top row so we really

[48:41] see implementation here benefiting not only not only our overall community but climate resilience and climate equity as

[48:47] we continue this work so our climate action plan goal is to reduce communitywide greenhouse gas

[48:53] emissions 45% by 2030 and achieve net zero emissions by 2050 based on our most

[48:59] recent 2023 greenhouse gas inventory we've achieved a 17% reduction in our

[49:04] greenhouse gas emissions so from 2019 to 2023 we've reduced our emissions 17%

[49:10] this is communitywide across all sectors the graph on the screen represents uh a

[49:15] linear reduction in our progress towards goals so the the wedges are representing those different sectors buildings

[49:21] transportation waste and water those are the greenhouse gas emissions and then the gold diamonds represent those actual

[49:27] emissions what have we actually achieved in terms of emissions reductions and so you can see in 2023 there's that 17%

[49:35] reduction from 2021 to 2023 not as drastic of a reduction from our last

[49:40] inventory but still a reduction from baseline and then what we're working towards is that 2030 goal so our 45%

[49:46] reduction so what this graph is helping to visualize is just what is the quantified or visual representation of

[49:51] the emissions that need to be reduced this graph shows that in a

[49:57] little bit more uh detail so a lot of information on the screen across those four uh sectors where we're measuring

[50:02] our greenhouse gas emissions the numbers on the screen represent the baseline so that's where we started in 2019 the 2023

[50:10] value so based on our inventory where we are at and then looking out ahead to 2030 that cap goal the far right column

[50:17] kind of represents the idea of are we on track yes no sort of where we would

[50:22] expect to be in 2023 based on that linear reduction and so you can see um

[50:28] across we have some positive some negative and some neutral

[50:33] and same information but to update a little bit I like to use kind of drivers of change what is contributing towards

[50:39] that ontrack status so starting at the top for water and wastewater we do see a reduction um in those greenhouse gas

[50:46] emissions that's primarily driven through electricity used for water distribution and wastewater collection

[50:51] and so we've seen the emissions related to that electricity reduced we are not quite exactly where we thought our

[50:57] target would be but we're not far off so we kind of see that as on track medium

[51:03] status for solid waste our emissions are above where we would have expected to be um and where we wanted to be in terms of

[51:09] achieving our goal the reason for that is because we've had a decreased organics and recycling participation

[51:15] across our community as well as an increase in waste to energy diversion waste so that's a higher emittance um in

[51:21] greenhouse gas where uh trash is sent to the herk Henipin County energy recovery

[51:26] center the emissions intensity of that uh waste diversion is higher than what we would expect and and that's where we

[51:32] want to send to organics and recycling buildings and energy this is our our green check mark we've seen very

[51:39] great progress here this is primarily because of Excel Energy's investment in grid decarbonization meaning they are

[51:45] putting more carbon-f free generation on the grid and we benefit as a community for that and you can see the reduction

[51:51] there of that annual target is that dash line where we would want to be and the solid line is is much lower than where

[51:56] we expected so the um buildings and energy sector is is a green check for us and something where we've been able to

[52:02] make progress transportation is another one of those sectors where we're not on track where we expected to be so you can see the the

[52:10] solid line there is above the annual target the reason for this is we've had an increase in the vehicle miles

[52:15] traveled so car trips that are happening in our community that are emitting carbon as well as low EV adoption and

[52:21] low public transit use so those are the drivers of change across all these different sectors um and kind of where

[52:26] we're on track as we meet our goal even though we have an overall 17% reduction uh the the buildings and energy sector

[52:32] is really driving that um and making up for those solid waste and transportation sectors where we didn't quite hit our

[52:41] mark there was communitywide emissions the city of Edina is part of that communitywide inventory but do want to

[52:47] pull it out just to be able to speak to our leadership in our community um the investments that we're making in our

[52:53] facilities and so the chart on the screen represents the city of Vina municipal operations so our buildings

[52:59] our fleet um and across those different sectors and we're able to control this a little bit better than maybe we think

[53:05] for communitywide emissions we're really excited to share that we've had a 26% reduction in our emissions for our

[53:11] municipal operations similar to the um the previous slide to our communitywide emissions this is primarily driven by

[53:18] the building energy sector we've seen a 43% reduction in our electricity emissions grid to carbonization is a

[53:24] huge piece of that uh utility scale decarbonization is really helpful for our local climate goals but we've also

[53:30] been making a lot of positive investments and efficiency projects in our facilities as well as renewable energy subscription programs to help

[53:37] decarbonize our buildings um the other positive story is just around solid waste and the decrease estimated waste

[53:43] generation and then also waste diversion to organics and recycling so moving away from that more carbon intense waste

[53:51] diversion so as we think about achieving our climate action plan goals we kind of like to frame it across three different

[53:56] approaches so we talk about activation we host events in our community workshops for residents and businesses

[54:02] and then also provide incentives as well to motivate action we want to increase awareness of our climate action plan of

[54:08] our goals of actions that folks can take so we work on different communications different outreach in our community and

[54:14] then also accountability so reporting like tonight um that bianual greenhouse gas inventory I had shared and then as

[54:21] well as the online dashboard through invisio where we report action status on a quarterly basis for all the actions

[54:26] within the climate action plan a big piece of our implementation and what funds a lot of this work is the

[54:33] conservation and sustainability fund also known as the cast fund and so this is primarily funded through utility

[54:38] franchise fee revenue that balance does roll over yeartoear so we estimate at the beginning of 2024 was an estimate

[54:45] about 1.79 million starting balance and in 2024 we spent about $1.8 million with

[54:52] 73 73% of those expenses being spent on city vehicle electrification facility

[54:58] upgrades around efficiency improvements renewable energy investments and then facility studies so evaluating

[55:03] opportunities for us to continue to invest in our vehicles as well as our

[55:09] facilities so a lot was accomplished last year here i'm not going to read everything on this slide uh but just

[55:14] kind of want the the takeaway to be that a lot has been done across a lot of different ways within our climate action plan i'm going to highlight a few of the

[55:21] bolded um items on the screen so the first around community engagement we hosted electrify everything uh program

[55:27] workshops we're working with residents to electrify their homes so to install airsource heat pumps look at heat pump

[55:33] water heaters induction stoves to help reduce their homes uh carbon footprint

[55:38] in terms of community investment we host a community climate action fund and last year we added ebike as an eligible

[55:44] project which is very popular in our community so a way to incentivize folks to consider different ways to move and travel throughout our community for

[55:51] grant funding we established a process for elective pay for us to be able to essentially file taxes and claim clean

[55:56] energy tax credits so this is a new opportunity for us ongoing to be able to through this invest in investment that

[56:02] we make on efficiency electric vehicles renewable energy we're able to generate new revenue sources to bring in and

[56:08] continue to do that work so being able to establish that process was a huge win we completed a solar suitability

[56:14] analysis so looking at all city facilities that we own what is the suitability to install solar um is it a

[56:21] good candidate what do we think the estimated cost might be we are now able to use that data moving forward looking

[56:26] at our capital improvement plan as well as grant applications to say we know this site is a great candidate we have

[56:31] the data we have the study to be able to verify that last year we kicked off the implementation of the carry out bank fee

[56:38] ordinance which requires most merchants and businesses to charge 5 cents for carry out banks that launched on July

[56:44] 1st of 2024 so a lot of outreach and engagement related to that last year and then the other thing I want to highlight

[56:50] is elevating our voice uh we participated in a public utilities commission comment periods for key

[56:56] issues related to a dino to be able to say this issue is important to us uh we filed comments related to airsource heat

[57:02] pump rebates vegetation management and then also communications around power outages um and so that's information

[57:07] that we can we file as a community toina as part of that regulatory process um

[57:13] working with other communities and other agencies to share that so elevating issues that are important to our community as it relates to

[57:19] sustainability and climate action so I'm going to walk through just kind

[57:24] of some of those key pieces impact by the numbers um so the first is funding we secured about $1.9 million in grant

[57:31] funding last year for sustainability and climate action plan projects and you can see on the screen here the different

[57:37] projects uh Bredesen Park Restoration looking at removing invasive species removing public ash trees um on public

[57:44] property received a grant to do that work received a grant to kick off and a safe and equitable mobility action plan

[57:50] so a planning process to be able to bring together planning efforts we filed those clean energy tax credits for

[57:56] electric vehicles that we purchased and then the largest project um that we secured funding for is bofleet

[58:02] conversion so looking at our heavy duty fleet approximately 10 uh snowplow/dump trucks converting that to biodeiesel and

[58:09] reducing that carbon footprint the italicized text on the screen represents that federal funding i know there's been

[58:15] a lot of questions around is the funding secured are we going to get it um we have executed

[58:20] grant agreements for all of our federal funding sources so we feel very confident that that funding will come forward and we can move forward with

[58:26] these projects in terms of programs so our community climate action fund is a

[58:32] program where we provide cost share incentives for residents businesses multif family buildings in our community

[58:38] to do efficiency renewable energy and other projects 90 projects were funded last year with $98,000 allocated for

[58:45] that that $98,000 investment leveraged about $1 million in private investment

[58:50] in our community so a huge impact in terms of the city investment of what we've seen invested back in our community through private dollars we

[58:57] also provide um energy at a cost share so we discount or fully cover the cost to co-pay for a business or a resident

[59:04] has to pay for an assessment that looks at their building in terms of efficiency renewable energy last year uh we covered

[59:10] the cost for 200 residential assessments and 31 business assessments in our community so those are individuals that

[59:16] now have reports where they can move forward on projects that they might want to take in terms of improving efficiency

[59:21] within their building impact by our capital investments so city hall the building we

[59:29] are in has been going under a lot of energy management upgrades the picture on the screen shows the new solar system

[59:34] that's been installed on the facility here once the projects are fully commissioned we estimate about $3

[59:41] million or sorry $3 million KVTU a year in energy savings um in terms of

[59:46] operational efficiencies through building automation lighting upgrades HVAC improvements and then with that new

[59:53] solar system about 540,000 KBTU a year generated on site with that new solar

[59:58] system so diverting um our energy consumption from the grid to that solar

[1:00:03] system further reducing energy bills and then also just further solidifying the resilience and carbon footprint of this

[1:00:09] building we also accomplished a lot of fleet vehicle conversions we purchased 11 electric vehicles and two hybrid

[1:00:15] vehicles last year so that's replacing traditional combustion engine vehicles with an electrified or um hybrid vehicle

[1:00:22] to further achieve our transportation reduction goals within our own city fleet

[1:00:28] in terms of policies the efficient buildings ordinance so that's a policy where we require benchmarking for buildings in our community 25,000 square

[1:00:35] feet and larger last year we had a 90% submittal compliance rate which is really great compared to our peer

[1:00:41] communities we're really excited about that and have data now for 238 buildings within our community uh you may remember

[1:00:47] we did update that ordinance last year to change the scope working with the state of Minnesota um but continue to

[1:00:53] hope that we'd have a similar compliance rate with the buildings that still work directly with the city of Edina our

[1:00:58] sustainable building policy requires sustainability elements if we provide a project tiff funding other financing PUB

[1:01:05] zoning and we kicked off one project last year that did fall within that policy so working with them to ensure that they build a more sustainable

[1:01:11] building in our community that they would otherwise for the carry out bank ordinance we have reporting underway we

[1:01:17] have sent communication to businesses i believe a postcard hit mailboxes last week um so we're getting reporting from

[1:01:24] those businesses that are required to charge the fee and report the fee we anticipate compliance reporting to be

[1:01:30] complete around a early April as we get all of that data go through and are able

[1:01:35] to provide that report to our um energy environment commission as well as the city council be able to show what the

[1:01:40] impact of that policy has been so as you think about implementation um there are some

[1:01:46] challenges i think as the mayor mentioned there are a lot of things to celebrate there has been a lot of success uh but there's still a lot of

[1:01:52] work to do so as we think about achieving and implementing our climate action plan uh there is current you know

[1:01:58] limited staff capacity across departments and divisions um I'm not the only division that implements aspects of the climate action plan i work a lot

[1:02:04] with other departments and divisions and uh on top of all the other work that we're doing so there is some limited

[1:02:09] capacity and budget to do this work there are some strategies that we have within our climate action plan that are

[1:02:15] just outside the scope of what we can can control and on sometimes in the sphere of influence so as we think about

[1:02:20] transportation mode choice based on the available options we can't for force met council to provide bus transit in

[1:02:27] certain areas or to provide a stop uh we can encourage we can request we can have

[1:02:32] those conversations but it can be difficult uh to achieve that um if it's not within

[1:02:38] our own individual control we have heard from residents and businesses they are choosing to delay projects until more

[1:02:45] funding is available we've heard that the IRA and state rebate should come up become available sometime this year um I

[1:02:51] will note when I started this work and this was first passed it was later this year next year next year uh but we do

[1:02:58] know from the state of Minnesota they do have funding in hand so we are hopeful that that those funds will be available

[1:03:03] this year that will just further incentivize projects within our community there are individual actions that folks

[1:03:09] are taking that result in small incremental changes that we don't realize right away we see that over years through behavior changes through

[1:03:16] efficiency projects renewable energy investment um within our land use and our transportation sector those

[1:03:22] strategies are going to be determined in our future comprehensive planning process and that's going to affect long-term emission reduction so looking

[1:03:28] much further out to future development within our community and then as I mentioned uh we encourage we work with

[1:03:34] folks on behavior change but that can be difficult not only for individuals to implement uh but also very difficult to

[1:03:39] measure but it's something we are working with our community to do so those are these the the cap

[1:03:45] sectors again uh just to provide context of how to focus between now and 2030 uh

[1:03:50] 63% of our emissions reduction need is in that transportation and land use sector if we think between now and 2030

[1:03:58] of the emissions that are remaining to meet that 2030 goal 63% of it needs to come from that transportation sector 37%

[1:04:05] from buildings and energy and then less than 1% between the waste management and water and wastewater um again that

[1:04:12] bottom row of sectors that we have contribute but really are focusing on that climate resilience and equity

[1:04:18] so as we're looking ahead for 2025 this year we have our ongoing policy and program implementation doing a lot of

[1:04:24] different community education outreach with our green corber and other divisions continuing to pursue grants to

[1:04:29] fund our climate action plan work um working with the state and other agencies to to provide that funding and

[1:04:36] then we're also rep prioritizing some of our cap actions to have a very based on what we know from our greenhouse gas

[1:04:42] inventory and other studies what are things that we can focus on as a community between now and 2030 to

[1:04:47] achieve our goals in 2026 to 2030 what we see is implementation based on the work we're doing this year and then

[1:04:53] we'll have another greenhouse gas inventory that will be completed uh based on the 2025 data and then the the

[1:05:00] chart on the screen is just another representation of where we see our emission reductions as you can see uh the biggest wedge is that transportation

[1:05:06] sector and that's the presentation I have for you tonight yeah that was a as I

[1:05:11] mentioned earlier just a great deal of information you've provi pro provided to us and I think we've got some uh

[1:05:17] questions that folks would like to ask and I'm going to turn to uh council member Jackson who was on the Energy

[1:05:23] Environment Commission for several years and this is near and dear to her and I'll let her lead off yeah thank you Mr

[1:05:29] mayor well thank you manager this is a lot of information and I think that your

[1:05:35] day-to-day job must be very complicated because if you can squeeze all that into

[1:05:40] a presentation I know you're doing a lot more work beyond that so for everybody on your team and in the energy

[1:05:47] environment commission I truly appreciate all the work that you do i want to say thank you um I want to

[1:05:52] particularly uh thank Matthew Gab for his grant writing i'm I'm in awe and

[1:05:58] he's been a great addition to the team and so thank you very much to um to

[1:06:03] Matthew Home Energy Squad visits i know this is it's a simple thing it's

[1:06:11] low cost and basically I I've done it twice and the improvements that we've

[1:06:16] got were worth far more money than the $50 that we paid for it how do people go

[1:06:21] about doing that and what is the cost currently to get a home energy squad visit yeah so the um home energy squad

[1:06:28] is a program delivered by um it's sponsored by Excel Energy and Centerpoint Energy delivered by CE available to residents in one to four

[1:06:34] units uh the cost to get a visit is discounted by CDB Dino so it's $50 for a full home energy audit includes they

[1:06:41] look at your attic insulation um air ceiling furnace water heater air conditioner and then if you have

[1:06:47] opportunities they install energy saving measures on the spot so new LED bulbs uh weather stripping within certain doors

[1:06:54] to sign up for that you can go to our city website at sustainability page to get that contact information or reach

[1:07:00] out to me directly and we can get folks connected to to do that visit okay great thank you and then um the third thing I

[1:07:07] had a question about was the composting is Henipin County doing any kind of new

[1:07:12] pushes to uh alert people about composting is there any kind of momentum in that area sad to see the numbers um

[1:07:19] going down or going the wrong direction so our composting program is managed by

[1:07:24] our public health division we have a organics recycling coordinator Twilight Singh who manages that um so she's much

[1:07:30] more knowledgeable about that i do know Henipin County has a zero waste plan they're putting more effort into achieving that um so I know she as well

[1:07:37] as other folks working on that are hopeful we uh part of our green core member uh Gabriella's work plan is to

[1:07:42] engage folks on organics participation uh because of that kind of flatlining we want to see folks more engaged in that

[1:07:48] program and diverting their waste uh and making sure that they're proper waste disposal there are a lot of things that

[1:07:54] can go in that organic bin that people are just putting in trash such as food waste great thank you very much council

[1:08:01] members uh thank you given that uh council member Jackson was just talking about

[1:08:07] compost I'll kind of double down on that um and and think about just waste management in general you know one thing

[1:08:14] that actually came up when we were talking about um the possibility or exploring organized trash collection was

[1:08:21] also doubling down into the recycling program that we have i hear from a lot

[1:08:28] of people that like they fill up their recycling when it comes every other week um I don't know if we've evaluated the

[1:08:35] cost or the potential impact of offering recycling on a weekly basis instead um

[1:08:41] but I'm just curious if that's more broadly a need or maybe just a couple of the people that I've spoken to have

[1:08:47] indicated that um but then I'd love to hear from you too if you have any hypotheses on why we've seen a decrease

[1:08:56] in the utilization of composting i see it i I'm don't think

[1:09:02] that there's very many of the compost carts out on my street in particular and you know when you're driving around on

[1:09:07] on that Tuesday in my neighborhood um you can see so have you done any types

[1:09:12] of surveys or um kind of voice of the customer in our community to understand

[1:09:18] why that's decreasing so the the first question around um weekly recycling um

[1:09:24] again so my division doesn't manage that i I support uh Twi and S's work in that um so that could be a follow-up question

[1:09:31] where we can can answer that because I just can't I could hypothesize uh but we'll not do that um and then in terms

[1:09:36] of just participation one thing I've heard from Twilight my conversations with her is folks are only putting their

[1:09:42] cart out when it's full instead of every week or even if there's just a few items

[1:09:47] in there they should be putting their cart out for pickup um instead of just waiting to do it until it's full so I

[1:09:52] know that's something that she's been communicating because that's how we calculate some of our participation counts um as well as kind of just that

[1:09:58] further engagement of letting folks know that education of what can go in organics compost versus a trash bin um I

[1:10:05] think folks would be pleasantly surprised but maybe just surprised to to learn the number of items that they have

[1:10:11] that they're putting in their trash bin that could go into that compost bin awesome thank you and I know that that's

[1:10:16] in like the 1% category so don't mean to spend too much time on that um I I think

[1:10:22] it is going to be really important as we look to our budgeting process and having

[1:10:29] conversations about I mean we know right and I I think as a city we've been talking about how can we save more spend

[1:10:37] less and so it's it's always hard because I've had multiple people come

[1:10:42] and say we need to be doing more about our climate action plan and investing more into taking those actions and at

[1:10:49] the same time we were you know last year facing the possibility right of a 13%

[1:10:56] levy increase um we just got off of our weekend of budget discussions where we

[1:11:02] are doing everything we can to avoid another substantial increase to the levy um and so I I think it's really

[1:11:09] important for having updates like this uh and understanding where we're going

[1:11:15] to get that benefit um of continuing to invest and I think that's like maybe just like broad feedback in general is

[1:11:21] like how can we tie the investment to and the greenhouse gas like this is data

[1:11:28] I love it like this is powerful and where can we tie it to more

[1:11:37] quantitative like dollar value impacts to the city because that makes it an

[1:11:43] easier story to say of like yes we're going to increase investment into this yes we're you know we're consciously

[1:11:50] making that decision and this is what the ROI on that investment is expected

[1:11:55] to be and this is why we're consciously making this decision with the the tax dollars um and so I know you're already

[1:12:02] a partner in that but I'm just saying like that's the reality of the situation of I love all of the work that you're

[1:12:08] doing and I you know I hear more funding would help drive these things faster and

[1:12:13] you know especially seeing those numbers of like we're not necessarily off trend yet but we're not going in the right

[1:12:20] direction if we look over the last two years um and so it's always like how do we correct that how do we get back on

[1:12:26] trend and when the answer is more investment right it just it gives puts

[1:12:31] us in a hard position of how do we balance all of those um priorities as a city so I know you know all of this um

[1:12:37] but just reiterating really appreciate all the work that you're doing um and even the more that you can do in just

[1:12:44] like closing the loop on that storytelling I think will make it easier for us as well james thank you

[1:12:51] member Pierce thank you member oh yeah okay

[1:12:57] sorry uh thank you you're transfixed by me observations

[1:13:04] thanks for the presentation um you actually answered one of my questions um

[1:13:09] but I've got uh I probably have three but then just more of an observation um the one I was

[1:13:17] going to ask was about the data for the bag fee um and you answered that um and just an interesting thing there um I've

[1:13:25] been to three different cities um and these were all Targets and the Targets

[1:13:32] didn't even offer a single used bag so when you checked out if you

[1:13:39] needed a bag you had to buy a 99 cent Target bag so didn't even have

[1:13:45] single-use bags um and so that prompted me

[1:13:51] to ask the question or maybe I'm making more of a suggestion but the question

[1:13:56] was how progressive are we at um looking at what other communities are doing um

[1:14:04] and so I think it's kind of easier for us to look like with our sister cities

[1:14:10] as opposed to one of those cities was in Hawaii that did that and the other was a

[1:14:17] target in Duth um and so just curious how progressive are we across the board

[1:14:25] when we're thinking about getting uh more creative with some of our solutions

[1:14:30] yeah we defin so through um different networks we're a part of including the urban sustainability developers or

[1:14:36] directors network we're connecting with those other communities to talk about what are what are you trying what what

[1:14:42] is successful what have you piloted to think about here um specific to the bags is um I would say compared to to peer

[1:14:48] communities in the state of Minnesota so we are limited by state statute of what we can do we can't say we can't ban bags

[1:14:54] we can't tell them not to distribute but that's where that fee comes in um in terms of leading from the other cities I

[1:15:00] One thing that we do is requesting that data so Minneapolis and DUTH that have a bag fee there is no reporting

[1:15:05] requirement they don't necessarily they can't quantify the impact um and so I'm hopeful of of the data that we are

[1:15:11] requesting we'll be able to kind of measure the scale of the impact um but in terms of changing the policy definitely conversations that we've had

[1:15:17] with folks um just broader across sustainability in terms of the things that we're trying to do awesome and so

[1:15:23] this wouldn't surprise you that I asked why are you charging a dollar for a bag what's forcing you to do that and then

[1:15:30] the response was like the city's not the business is doing that and so they have

[1:15:36] they have different reasons for why they are trying to do it um and so I think

[1:15:42] the bad one is a good one where we kind of took on this the the

[1:15:49] nickel ordinance and we took we were the infantry on that like we took the

[1:15:55] bullets for that one um the other model the establishment did it and so

[1:16:02] and I it's just different it's a different model and so I'm that's why I

[1:16:07] asked that question um and then through that lens the other question when you

[1:16:13] look at the results um we're showing the results as being linear I think we're

[1:16:19] showing them as linear we're forecasting in a linear direction

[1:16:24] um in terms of that solid line but the the gold diamonds represent the actual

[1:16:30] um emissions reduction compared to if uh there's an infinite number of ways we can achieve a 45% reduction so what this

[1:16:37] just represents is um a distribution across uh based on the climate action plan consultants model and just assume

[1:16:43] straight linear reduction to 2030 and so then my okay so the way I interpreted

[1:16:49] that is is right then so the volume dictates the opportunity

[1:16:55] right okay um so that's good and then the so that question was going to be

[1:17:01] related to at some point we will need a compounding effect to get to 2030

[1:17:09] um and so it would be interesting to to consider that um just to start to look

[1:17:15] at the data to see where we might need to kind of increase our efforts uh so

[1:17:21] that we can get to that compounding effect uh sooner um and then the last

[1:17:28] one I thought your every slide that you had even the last one was good that had

[1:17:34] the um the um proportion of the 63% all of

[1:17:41] those are good 63% transportation 37% uh building um like it it strikes me

[1:17:50] that we we have to and you've heard me say this before like we have to get to a

[1:17:56] point where our awareness is creating enough dissatisfaction to change

[1:18:04] behaviors and so the um when I look at this slide and see

[1:18:10] that 63% of the reduction needs to come through transportation and I'm I I

[1:18:15] believe you guys did this so I'm I'm kind of almost making this up and so if

[1:18:22] you if that is true then to member

[1:18:27] Agnu's point if we focus on waste that's not going to have enough of a

[1:18:33] compounding effect to reach our goal so then for me looking at the messaging of

[1:18:40] everything almost going through the lens of transportation um to say and this is where I'm kind of

[1:18:46] fudging this a little bit cuz I think this was in your presentation when we looked at hauling

[1:18:53] um on the waste side there's a transportation impact perhaps to doing that and so it's

[1:19:02] not I think often times we think about it as residents as waste right stop

[1:19:08] trying to dictate my waste i should have the decision to manage my waste the way

[1:19:13] I want to but when you look at that through the lens of transportation and our goal of the

[1:19:19] 63% right you you start to internalize the objective a little

[1:19:25] differently um and so looking at these two transportation and buildings I think

[1:19:31] it'd be interesting uh for us to start looking at our awareness campaigns um

[1:19:37] and then um the projects that we recommend or policies that we recommend

[1:19:43] starting to do those through the those two lenses um because we'll need that

[1:19:48] compounding effect from probably both of those areas to get there

[1:19:55] um that's it thank you thank you i'm going to come back to member Jackson but

[1:20:00] I'm going to go to member Russell thank you for your work in the presentation and I really the one slide

[1:20:09] that kind of got my attention was 13 with city hall energy management and I

[1:20:14] appreciate the energy savings as well as the energy being um generated and um

[1:20:23] agree with member Agnu that having a monetary

[1:20:29] um data point connected that would be wonderful to see that slide you know with those figures on it and it would

[1:20:36] also be wonderful you know with our signage that can change messages

[1:20:42] outside of city hall i don't know if it could be written in a very pity way but

[1:20:48] you know x amount of dollars were saved from the solar panels on the roof of city hall i think that would be a really

[1:20:55] good message to get out there and it's really fun to see more and more people putting solar panels on their houses so

[1:21:01] thank you for everything you're doing yeah thank you back to member Jackson i think that member Agnu has something out

[1:21:07] this triggered too member Jackson yes just very briefly I would appreciate

[1:21:12] seeing some uh data or slide of the um benchmarking program that we have i know

[1:21:18] it's efficient build it has a new name but just to see from its inception to um

[1:21:23] the present what the change in energy of the buildings are based on our city data

[1:21:29] um and broken out i know this follows a climate action plan that predates that but um I would appreciate that um

[1:21:36] information thank you so member Jackson are you thinking that on I think you mentioned 238 buildings

[1:21:42] we had information on now yeah that's an important point you're just raising is that you know how do we go about helping

[1:21:49] you with this you and the commission really you have your chair with you tonight you if you want to introduce

[1:21:54] your chair uh and um this uh sort of massive

[1:22:00] workload that uh you've undertaken all of you collectively as a commission and uh chair Lukans you want to come up just

[1:22:07] quickly and stand by uh this may be there on the spot

[1:22:14] and I don't know if you have any comment with regard to what any of the council members have raised so far but no I

[1:22:20] would just echo um Marissa's been fantastic fantic i think from a hiring perspective you guys have did a great

[1:22:26] job bringing her in she's been a fearless leader on all aspects of the climate action plan for us um I think a

[1:22:32] couple reactions to the comments so far i would say one we have benefited a lot from state and county level uh climate

[1:22:41] action initiatives so that has helped with a lot of the reduction that we've seen um I definitely applaud this city

[1:22:48] for a lot of the things that you guys have done for city buildings city wastewater usage city fleet all those

[1:22:54] things have been very impressive i think where we from a commission perspective are now really focused is how do we take

[1:23:00] the great work the city has done amplify it and get community members engaged around actually taking steps at their

[1:23:06] own homes their businesses in the community and so uh I think there's a lot of opportunities in that space i

[1:23:11] think things around organized hauling things around tree ordinances a lot of

[1:23:17] these things are all part of the same climate action plan package in terms of

[1:23:22] signaling what we value as a community and also encouraging people to take steps to um improve their own businesses

[1:23:28] and and residential uh climate action or um uh waste reduction so um ultimately I

[1:23:35] think we're making a lot of great progress i think whoever made the compounding comment like we have a long

[1:23:40] ways to go before 2030 um we're going to continue to bring innovative solutions to you guys i do think the idea of tying

[1:23:49] budget requests resource requests from a city perspective to the call it big

[1:23:55] remaining action items in the climate action plan is going to be key and we'd want to work with you guys in the coming

[1:24:00] years as we do our work plans and and really think through what are going to be the things that are truly going to

[1:24:05] move the needle as opposed to perhaps just uh virtue signaling what we care

[1:24:10] about um I don't think a a plastic bag ordinance is really moving the needle but it changes behavior and it makes

[1:24:16] people think about it every time they go uh to a store so we're optimistic we have a great leader here from the city

[1:24:22] and uh we'll continue to work with you guys going forward thank you Mr chair

[1:24:29] uh member Agnu thank you and you were done yeah member Agnu and then I'll go

[1:24:36] back to member Jackson we're bouncing you all over oh you're done too well and I think even just building off of what

[1:24:41] member Risser was saying too and tying it back to to my comment of when we know

[1:24:46] we're making these investments on city buildings that decreases the energy expenses which would have hit our budget

[1:24:53] in another way already and so like help us tell that story of like this is how

[1:24:59] much we saved on gas because of this investment and this is how much we've saved on energy usage because that's

[1:25:04] where we start to build those compounding impacts of we made a one-time investment and this is what

[1:25:10] we're saving on an annual basis and so it helps tell that story of stewardship

[1:25:15] of resources um that I think is all a part of the story so and I know you hear it but just

[1:25:21] no thank you yeah i this is a segue off of what the

[1:25:27] chair had to say and and uh just now member Agnu and others as well member Pierce if you go to slide eight you know

[1:25:35] I think this is um something that our city should be

[1:25:40] really proud of if you can find slide eight there that's the city's municipal emissions and uh you know we may only

[1:25:49] represent 1% of the total communitywide emissions but look at the progress that that's been made here and these

[1:25:55] reductions that are really significant um and so to the point that other council members have made and I think

[1:26:01] the chair made is that we we we're a model of behavior for what we want out

[1:26:08] of the rest of our community and on how we get to where we want to go together and so people in our community have told

[1:26:15] us this is important to them so let's not just talk the talk let's start

[1:26:20] walking the walk we already are we've got this to show and this is what happens when you do it you can make some

[1:26:26] really important strides and so some uh way somehow with this uh awareness

[1:26:32] campaign that member Pierce mentioned I think we need to start tooting our own horn a little bit and encouraging people

[1:26:38] in our community to follow suit uh and I think maybe some of these building owners would be a a good way to start

[1:26:45] because that represents such a significant portion of our potential reductions where where I get

[1:26:51] um uh having you know difficulty is I know that transportation sector is the

[1:26:58] number one producer of greenhouse gases it doesn't matter if it's EDIO or it's the state or it's the country and when

[1:27:04] you think about our strategies around uh reduction uh and you think about you

[1:27:11] know you had the subcategories of vehicle miles traveled electrification is going slower than we thought of

[1:27:17] vehicles uh but you know in in fairness to the public we haven't come up with a

[1:27:22] system yet for our town that provides a a reliable electrification system all

[1:27:27] over town where you can fast charge at a level three uh and that may make a

[1:27:32] difference and and then I think transit is really challenging for us because as a suburban community it's it's really

[1:27:40] not a very robust system and even when we get the Eline going from the university and coming over through the

[1:27:46] uptown area and coming down France Avenue to the South District that's not going to move the needle much either so

[1:27:52] I don't really know what to do on transportation other than I really always like the uh bofuel fleet

[1:27:58] conversion and and and tell me again where we are on that so we're in the process of uh permitting and then um

[1:28:05] looking at being able to install the tank we'll have to put RFPs out to purchase the tank as well as the

[1:28:10] retrofit systems to install on the vehicle um so we hope to implement it sometime this year so we would see that

[1:28:16] impact starting likely by end of year if not 2026 i mean that was a that was a on

[1:28:22] the big equipment that we've got as I recall that was like a 90% greenhouse gas reduction it's a it's a huge impact

[1:28:27] um snow plows are really really expensive if you buy an all-electric one and then also really hard to meet the

[1:28:33] service need of plowing roads with an all-electric uh dump truck snowplow so we see bofuel um as one of our our key

[1:28:40] strategies with our heavy duty fleet okay yeah good agreed uh and then just a

[1:28:46] shout out to folks working on fire station number two and we were over there Saturday after as member Agnes

[1:28:51] said working all day on budget issues and got a tour through what's going to be a magnificent building but to find

[1:28:57] out that we're going to be near net zero on uh energy in that building due to the

[1:29:02] geothermal and the solar uh and we have to use a little bit of natural gas uh

[1:29:08] for some of the purposes that we need it for but uh you know that's another great

[1:29:13] example of of modeling behavior for some of the building owners I think and yeah absolutely and and then I don't know you

[1:29:19] know with the it's going to be more difficult to have a federal government as a partner

[1:29:25] if we try to create some kind of grant opportunities because you kind of count on them being the source of grant funds

[1:29:31] and it doesn't look like that's going to be a source of funds unless you know

[1:29:36] something that I don't sense or the rest of us don't sense we don't anticipate any new sustainable or or climate action

[1:29:44] funding grants from the federal government on in the near future uh so we are really leaning into what's available from the state of Minnesota um

[1:29:51] that's tied to our our state budget not tied to federal dollars um as well as other uh funding sources from um family

[1:29:58] foundations and other uh philanthropic organizations are starting to to potentially step in to fill that gap so

[1:30:04] our our uh bofuel fleet conversion monies are in hand we've got uh we have

[1:30:10] exe fully executed grant agreements and then um obligated funding which we have heard means the funding is ours it's

[1:30:17] secured we just have to meet our grant reporting requirements um so really fortunate compared to some peer communities who have partially executed

[1:30:23] or partially obligated funds those are the ones most at risk but we feel confident in the executed agreements

[1:30:29] that we have okay good that prompt any other thoughts from other council members uh great report thanks for the

[1:30:36] good work thanks for the work you're doing for the residents of our town for us as a council for the city really

[1:30:42] appreciate it chair Lukans thank and pass on our gratitude to your your commission members as well appreciate

[1:30:49] you being here this evening to participate in this uh update all right

[1:30:55] um let's move on now to the next matter in front of us we're going to we're going to exit uh the uh that portion of

[1:31:02] the agenda uh we're going to move on to reports and recommendations and the first matter here is um potential uh

[1:31:11] adoption of resolution 2025-25 which is a final site plan site improvement performance agreement and revised

[1:31:17] landscape plan for 7200 7250 France Avenue South and our community development

[1:31:24] director Kerry Teague has this matter we've got the developer available for questions uh we've got his landscape

[1:31:32] um architect if you will firm available as well I think and we've all been eager

[1:31:38] to find out what happened over at 7200 and the last time we had a conversation

[1:31:43] with you Director Teague you were still gathering facts and I'm pleased we got the developer here tonight to be able to

[1:31:48] tell us uh what what he knows and uh because I know that when we adopted that

[1:31:54] resolution that said don't touch the trees uh he was comfortable with that idea and so we're we're all eager to

[1:32:01] find out what happened and how are we going to fix this so that um we give uh

[1:32:06] we get some screening there again so director Teague yep thank you mayor members of the council so we had this

[1:32:13] one all teed up for final site plan approval the site improvement improvement plan agreement revised

[1:32:19] landscape plan and addressing the tree removal for the 7200 France um project

[1:32:31] um so the way we had it set up tonight was to do those approvals for the 7200

[1:32:37] site which is this site here 7250 is the southern parcel so you

[1:32:44] recall this was the approved overall PUD for the site the site so the a building

[1:32:50] permit has been issued for the 7250 site and that work has started

[1:32:56] recall as part of that phase one all of the site

[1:33:02] improvements all the public improvements the sidewalks the landscaping the courtyard the um the north south uh

[1:33:11] connector through the site the sidewalk there all of the grading and the landscaping was all to be done as part

[1:33:17] of that building permit we had the approvals tied to the 7200 site because

[1:33:23] that's where the that's where the work took place the applicant has requested

[1:33:29] that we not take action on those on those issues tonight we're going to still talk about the landscaping but not

[1:33:35] take action on the SIPA for 7200 uh the resolution we would we would

[1:33:41] recommend that you table that to the April 16th meeting and we tie that

[1:33:47] revised landscaping to the 7250 site the project that's going on now so we need

[1:33:54] to make those revisions to the SIPAS the resolutions i'll work with the city attorney and bring those back to you on

[1:34:00] the 16th um but we do again want to talk about the the tree removal and give you

[1:34:06] some background on that and perhaps you could provide some feedback on this revised landscape plan that we've been

[1:34:13] uh working with the developer and landscape architect on so the general notion is that when you come back on the

[1:34:20] if we table it to come back on the 16th of April that we would tie the landscape

[1:34:25] improvements to phase one correct as a which is already approved and underway

[1:34:30] as opposed to waiting until phase two starts to give the neighborhood some more immediate relief is what I

[1:34:36] interpret that to mean correct and do you recall some of the feedback that you received from residents had some

[1:34:43] concerns about well what if the 7200 project doesn't move forward and yet the

[1:34:50] landscaping and all the bonds are tied to that site so there's some added protections being that that site is is

[1:34:57] currently under construction okay so what we'll talk about tonight then is landscaping yes and yep what happened

[1:35:05] and what happened i've got some I've got some pictures to show and then I'll present member Jackson's got a question

[1:35:12] as we So before we go on to the trees I just want to

[1:35:17] um ask the courtyard in the middle may or may not become an

[1:35:26] underpass how do we at what point do we help these guys do their project but you

[1:35:32] know either that's still an open question so how can they build the buildings if that's an open question I

[1:35:38] guess just procedurally yes so the the phase two has been designed to

[1:35:44] accommodate either option so if if the underpass does not

[1:35:49] happen they can still accommodate it um so it that flexibility is still there

[1:35:57] okay so none of the decisions that we're going to make in April have anything have any solidity around um that

[1:36:04] decision that's correct okay thank you good thanks for that question yes member

[1:36:09] Pierce um just a clarification it's not apparent to me why we're pushing this to

[1:36:18] the 16th so if you could just speak to that again if you already have and maybe

[1:36:23] I missed it yes so the agreements and resolutions that

[1:36:28] are in the packet this evening tie the revised landscape plan the performance

[1:36:34] bonds requirements to the 7200 site the thinking from staff was because

[1:36:42] that's where the landscaping took place so we should tie that to the site

[1:36:48] what we'll come back with is tying that revised landscape plan all the public

[1:36:54] improvements still to the 7250 site the work that's taking place so you need

[1:37:00] time to do that we need time to do that right thank you okay yep thanks for that

[1:37:05] restatement okay so to get into the landscaping so as part of that phase one

[1:37:12] approvement that was to take place on the 7200 site the trees along the

[1:37:17] western lot line were supposed to be saved so you can see I've highlighted

[1:37:23] them here in yellow these trees up here were not removed but these in this

[1:37:29] location were removed member Risser has a question for you director Teague

[1:37:35] there's a lot of different information out there and if you read the site improvement performance agreement for

[1:37:42] 7200 and 7250 France Avenue um redevelopment phase one and you look at

[1:37:51] item J which is on page 10 it says specifically the developer shall

[1:37:57] preserve the existing trees along the west lot line to provide screening from

[1:38:02] the residential homes to the west if the trees do not survive additional trees

[1:38:07] shall be planted in the area providing screening at a variety of species and

[1:38:13] sizes subject to the approval of the city forester this is just all trees it's not

[1:38:21] 14 trees or 19 trees it's all the trees

[1:38:26] and so it's really hard it's kind of like

[1:38:32] having two clocks you don't know what time it is um but you know I think we

[1:38:39] should go for the highest standard that was put out there and that was preserve the

[1:38:46] existing trees so this is the tree removal plan that the trees along the

[1:38:52] western lot line that that's referring to is these trees here so this was part of the the uh approval package for the

[1:39:00] the 7250 site right and I guess we can keep talking

[1:39:05] past each other and I don't know if what I'm saying is confusing but what I'm reading is that all the trees not just

[1:39:13] select highlighted trees but all the trees were supposed to remain in that that wasn't the intent

[1:39:19] this ambiguity is very concerning and this this was stated very clearly

[1:39:27] preserve the existing trees along the west

[1:39:33] so he's saying these are the trees there was more there was more uh vegetation there than just trees is what I'm

[1:39:41] interpreting him to say but regardless it may not make a difference if we get to a point

[1:39:47] where we can make lemonade out of lemons so to speak so let's let's see

[1:39:54] where this goes my suggestion go ahead yep so now

[1:39:59] to move into the pictures to to show you so you have a visual of what took place so I've drawn in the lot line it's kind

[1:40:07] of skewed just based on where I was standing kind of at the bottom of the um

[1:40:12] the low spot so here are the residential homes to the west are here

[1:40:18] 72nd is up here so the these are the trees some of the trees that were

[1:40:24] removed on the from the neighbor's property on on private property on private property right so again here's

[1:40:31] that line through the site and so that yet there were um there was some shrubs

[1:40:37] through here that provided screening in addition to those trees that of course were to be saved as well along here so

[1:40:45] the trees that were removed that were indicated in that yellow um graphic that I had showed earlier those are these

[1:40:52] trees down here at the bottom of the low spot so you can see there is quite an elevation change to the homes um to the

[1:41:00] west again some of the trees that were supposed to be

[1:41:05] saved looks like this here was an old retaining wall that went through the site some of that um still remains but

[1:41:14] this is a look to the south so again here's the lot line you can see what was

[1:41:20] removed on the private property and then these were the trees that were removed that were supposed to uh be

[1:41:28] retained so all of this area in here from the low spot up that was supposed

[1:41:35] to be preserved and protected so this is a look at the

[1:41:42] landscape plan um that the applicant is proposing so we think there was about 11

[1:41:49] of the somewhat bigger trees that were removed what they're proposing here is to plant back 20 uh trees on their site

[1:41:58] and they're proposing eight on the adjacent property site so there would be

[1:42:05] some 10 to 12t pine trees uh some larger black hill spruce 15 to 16 feet in this

[1:42:13] area here red pines in here 10 to 12 feet

[1:42:19] white pine down here 10 to 12 feet a couple of tamarack and again some

[1:42:26] taller 15 to 16 black hill spruce the thinking over on this east side so this

[1:42:32] is that low spot where the retaining wall or the retaining pond is going to be so you can see the site slopes up

[1:42:41] toward the housing to the east so the thought was if they could plant

[1:42:47] um some evergreen trees in here at that high spot it would provide some additional screening for the residents

[1:42:53] there to the west i do want to emphasize that the city doesn't have the authority

[1:43:00] to require this landscaping on private property we're just trying to facilitate

[1:43:06] um some type of a solution here the developer is going to have to go and work with those property owners to to

[1:43:13] make it right and they've indicated a willingness to do that they want to make this right moving

[1:43:19] forward also want to go back to this site here so in the

[1:43:27] field there was supposed to be tree protection fencing that's what this kind

[1:43:33] of dashed line is indicating they were supposed to put up tree protection fencing to protect those trees prior to

[1:43:39] any work the property line should also be staked but that th those weren't

[1:43:45] marked when the trees went down so I think there might have been some confusion there so moving forward um

[1:43:52] staff has been talking about this how can we prevent this in the future and I think we need to do something similar to

[1:43:59] what we do with single family home tearowns the residential redevelopment not issue any type of uh

[1:44:06] permit until the property line is staked um and that tree protection fencing is

[1:44:12] up and staff has to go inspect that before any work can take place um so

[1:44:18] we'll we will put those those things in place moving forward

[1:44:24] um I think that concludes kind of an overview of the trees and what happens

[1:44:29] happened and again Mr carlson is here to answer any questions and Terry Manar the

[1:44:35] landscape architect is here as well dr teague were there Can you

[1:44:41] recall if there were any conifers uh amongst the trees that were cut down

[1:44:47] what I remember is mostly deciduous trees in there um yeah so it looks like

[1:44:53] this would be more of a this plan would be more of an allseason screening mechanism than than what was

[1:45:00] there before and maybe we'll hear from the developer about that and this landscape person yeah that's why staff

[1:45:07] was recommending the year round screening to um provide that year- round screening as opposed to you're right it

[1:45:13] was mostly deciduous in that area why don't we bring Mr carlson up here and Mr

[1:45:18] m home yes member Jackson yes thank you Mr mayor so um Director Teague just

[1:45:25] remind us um what the how we enforce this um that they don't get final sign

[1:45:32] off on the building unless it's approved by staff or what what's the step that say "Oh yes these trees were actually

[1:45:39] planted and and it's it's been accomplished." Yeah so once the the trees are planted

[1:45:45] we hold a letter of credit for the value of all of the landscaping plus the

[1:45:50] irrigation system we hold that in we hold that for two years to make sure they survive

[1:45:57] um we haven't had issues with developers replacing trees when they need to but in

[1:46:03] case they don't we can use that money then to to replace the trees that Okay

[1:46:08] someone may or may not be um willing to replace okay thank you member

[1:46:14] another concern that I have and I went out and I looked at the site from 70 72nd Street and if you follow the little

[1:46:22] pink flags all the way back to the southern section um you can see that

[1:46:27] there's a lot of bundles of material that are set up behind the chain link

[1:46:35] fence um that may be on the property of the cedars and then there's a bunch of

[1:46:42] tile that has been or or granite um tile

[1:46:47] that has been dropped off um way back in that area and I'm just wondering

[1:46:55] um what that is is that material for the project or is that that's somebody

[1:47:01] else's material that's been delivered yeah that's from the Cedars okay so the cedars is putting

[1:47:08] material but also Okay because some of it is on a resident's

[1:47:13] property okay yeah it looks like you're right it looks like we run across this

[1:47:19] in properties that but city parks um where people dump their clippings tree

[1:47:27] branches things like that this looks like construction staging it It's fresh material yep back here for sure

[1:47:34] um okay so my biggest concern is that uh

[1:47:40] you know the land has been damaged this could be a problem for erosion the

[1:47:46] project is having a retaining pond and when this development project came to us

[1:47:53] I don't remember u maybe I've forgotten it but how is this very steep

[1:48:00] um land going to be protected and I I don't really have I feel like I don't

[1:48:06] have a good understanding of that especially after I went out and I looked at it and I saw the flags down so low I

[1:48:12] mean is the idea that there's going to be dirt that is going to be built up on

[1:48:17] the neighboring i mean I don't I guess I just don't understand how that may be a

[1:48:22] good question for Mr manaric that's a good question but just I think

[1:48:28] let's bring up um uh both you and both Mr manaric and Mr carlson up i think

[1:48:35] first let's talk about uh from your perception what happened to cause this

[1:48:42] situation and then secondly uh the proposed solution Mr manard can talk

[1:48:48] about and why well good evening Ted Carlson with Orion Investments at 66 the

[1:48:53] New York and Edina and I want to offer my sincere apology to council members and adjacent residents because it's

[1:48:59] certainly not our intent to u keep the trees and then take them down so um what

[1:49:06] we can do is just um continue to improve communication with the neighborhood we're meeting with the adjacent

[1:49:12] homeowner tomorrow on site at 12:30 he's a former council me uh commissioner member and try to fix this situation so

[1:49:20] as regards to the landscape plan we believe it's robust we believe it's even rem more robust now with the changes

[1:49:26] that Terry can talk about and while we uh strive for perfection sometimes we fall a little bit short so I would just

[1:49:34] offer that you know we're going to make this right we've been in the neighborhood for a long time been interactions with K9 Blitz i first

[1:49:41] presented to this council in February of 2007 we're not planning on going anywhere so with that um

[1:49:49] you might I think you still Mr carlson if you could tell us based on your knowledge what happened why did this why

[1:49:55] did this happen well I think it happens because when the team is on site you know we maybe sometimes have a little

[1:50:01] bit of conflicting what's a good tree what's a bad tree we heard it in an earlier presentation about invasive

[1:50:06] trees or lowquality trees and I think 9M Creek also has involvement in this project because they're the watershed

[1:50:14] authority that issues permits here and they want everything to be high quality um uh trees species grasses and

[1:50:21] everything else so when our team was on site removing some of these I think that some of the trees maybe in their mind or

[1:50:28] in other direction was not that high a quality and they shouldn't have been removed and they were so I think there's

[1:50:33] a process that can certainly be improved moving forward on our side of the ledger

[1:50:40] other council members have questions for Mr carlson at this point in time all right let's bring Mr manaric up here and

[1:50:47] and we you know we we see the problem we see what happened and uh how do how do

[1:50:53] we how do we potentially take advantage of this sort of you know this landscape

[1:50:59] tragedy and and make it better than it was before surgery is that possible yeah

[1:51:05] it's possible and then don't forget to answer member Russer's question about uh how do we protect the slope from erosion

[1:51:11] either yeah there was a few questions um so one of your first ones uh Commission or Council Member Rizzer was um the

[1:51:18] property to the south the fence is a construction fence which probably should have been put on the north side or the

[1:51:24] west side as well and probably would have avoided this happening but it was put on that south side that delineates

[1:51:30] the property between the Cedars and this development so all that material that's stacked up there has been there put by

[1:51:36] the Cedars uh some of those leaning trees you see there some of the larger trees that's all on the Cedars property so those weren't touched there's also a

[1:51:43] section it's really kind of confusing um the back of this property um I don't know if you can see on here if I show

[1:51:50] you this being the property line but the neighbor's fence is actually way back here so it's kind of deceiving as to

[1:51:58] where the property line is like if you just look at it because you think the fence would be the property line but

[1:52:03] it's not so I think what's happened over the years I don't know if there's an agreement but over the years the cedars

[1:52:09] or somebody has dumped a lot of material back behind that furthest south property

[1:52:14] that borders this property so there's old le there was like at least 6 ft of

[1:52:19] leaves um there was um you know broken branches tree stumps rock material

[1:52:26] debris it's actually been leveled with a with a like a some kind of plow dozer to

[1:52:31] actually dump stuff in there over the years so I don't know if there's an agreement that's happening there but that's what that stuff is over in the

[1:52:37] corner over there so it looks like new material yeah and some of it is because

[1:52:43] they just recently put it there yeah so but it's nothing to do with this property so a lot of that stuff down

[1:52:49] there and there wasn't really any trees there because that's been cleared so they they they dumped there over the years a lot of the trees are the second

[1:52:55] property to the north property so those first two properties from north to middle that's where these trees were

[1:53:01] impacted so So that being said um yes the trees were removed that is a travesty for sure so what we came in and

[1:53:07] we tried to look at how we could repair this or mitigate this um it's always tough obviously to mitigate a mature

[1:53:15] tree right like how do you find a you know a 24 in or 12 in you know boxwood

[1:53:20] and place it on the site that you're going to have a canopy that block exactly blocks your view as it does today but um talking to the city

[1:53:26] forester we think a diversity which follows the city's tree ordinance program to diversify the plan make sure

[1:53:32] that we have a mix of species and we don't just kind of single species this and try to come up with a simple solution so there's a couple things in

[1:53:39] play here you could see the steepness of the property in that original photo from the back of the fence as it came down to

[1:53:45] an old retaining wall it's almost impossible to plant on that and there aren't really any trees growing on that

[1:53:50] but there does come to a level spot where the old retaining wall might have been so we think that's a place where we

[1:53:56] can plant a lot of this diversity of spruce trees um so there'd be some black hill spruce there's be some red pine

[1:54:02] there'd be some white pine and that would kind of create that all season kind of you know coverage there we're

[1:54:09] thinking 8 to 10footers would be possible to be get in here with a machine i think anything beyond that we

[1:54:15] wouldn't be able to get a machine large enough maybe with a crane we might be able to do that but it's also a concern to plant on a slope like that and

[1:54:22] destabilize a lot of this existing condition which we're worried about with a steep slope um there was a bit of

[1:54:27] understory here a lot of it was buckthornne a lot of it was just kind of like all this is actually voluntary

[1:54:33] that's growing here but a lot of the stuff that was here is kind of just scrub brush that'll all pop back up there's actually a lot of grasses and

[1:54:40] different things in the understory that'll pop back up you don't see it now cuz it's winter so that hill will be stabilized by that however there is from

[1:54:47] the property line into the area we're doing a lot of uh grading that'll happen for this storm pond so that's going to

[1:54:54] be all treated and replanted with a lot of understory stuff that's part of our plan as well so we're starting with the

[1:55:00] coniferous border the evergreen border and then we're also mixing in some larger um uh deciduous trees as well so

[1:55:08] it's kind of a diversity of canopy so we'll be able to get some taller canopies in there as well um to be able

[1:55:14] to provide some of that screening and then longterm probably be a healthier tree community as well so um the red

[1:55:20] dots on the plan actually show what we're adding in addition to the original plan which had over 25 trees going into

[1:55:26] the project as well so this a lot of this is just on the edge of the property line what is shown in red and north into

[1:55:34] the private residential properties and there's actually an easement that occurs you can kind of see this this easement

[1:55:39] right here um kind of on the border of that easement that runs through the back property so that kind of helps us to define where that property edge is as

[1:55:45] well so these are new additions to what your existing the 20 are all new to the original that had over 25 plus a ton of

[1:55:51] understory so if you look at this plan to the left this is all the planting that's going in with the new 20 trees

[1:55:57] that we're proposing as well um we also thought about the sightelines of these residences and what we're trying to

[1:56:04] block so we've added in additional coniferous and deciduous trees on the higher side of the roadway that passes

[1:56:10] behind the development and the sidewalk and the pedestrian connection so that'll be added in here as well to help

[1:56:15] increase some of that some of the um larger tamarack that are going in here those are kind of a wet tolerant species

[1:56:23] so it gives us some more evergreen um and color in there as well but it can grow in that wet environment that this

[1:56:28] may or may not have depending on um storm infiltration at the time so um

[1:56:34] there are three to four maybe five existing trees we show three that we

[1:56:40] really know but there's a few more that are still remaining on that top corner of the property um there's still

[1:56:45] currently a um like a pump uh um like a water is it sewage like storm pump or

[1:56:53] something that exists on the site that's kind of in a fenced in area there that'll be cleaned up and and and taken

[1:56:58] down too there's you know a lot of old fencing and stuff that's on the site that's being taken out that'll clean that up there's found some barb wire and

[1:57:05] different things out there as well so that'll be cleaned up as part of this property as well and then we're actually

[1:57:10] increasing the planting to the to the south that you know um even though that

[1:57:16] wasn't an area that we touched or was touched as part of this um removal process we're adding more into that area

[1:57:22] as well and that would be that area that's currently being used as somebody's dumping site so

[1:57:32] yeah go ahead member you would need permission to do that that's private property right okay and

[1:57:39] um but just thinking now that I'm more familiar with the site I if you could

[1:57:45] talk a little bit about how you're going to create this pond on the border of the

[1:57:53] you know property lines and you've got such a steep pitch and you're not going to do anything while you're grading

[1:58:01] while you're doing all of that that will be detrimental to the neighboring

[1:58:06] property i just So the pond starts pretty much right at this red line so that's where the pond starts um

[1:58:14] kind of on its edge but most of the pond actually starts where this arrow points

[1:58:20] here this was that series of trees that was intended to be saved um so the pond

[1:58:26] is more in this direction of the site and the little pink flag um shown by the snow uh that

[1:58:36] is a lot line flag right there's there's a stump and there's a a

[1:58:43] little flag i'm sorry i don't see that this one right here no down

[1:58:51] yep okay so the pond is going to be right on the

[1:58:59] property line it looks like the property line is actually a little higher up that

[1:59:04] That's a different uh elevation point line for the pond okay so that's not Yeah that's not part of the property

[1:59:09] line the property line is where um Mr teague showed it

[1:59:15] so yeah so most of the pond happens in this lower slope here that isn't as drastic a lot of this is going to be

[1:59:21] regraded um and redefined as part of that area a lot of this will be left now when

[1:59:28] we come in here and plant we'll have to figure out a way to do that with minimal invasion or whoever the contractor is

[1:59:34] will have to do that so whether that's via smaller equipment hand carry a crane

[1:59:42] um that's that'll be the best way to be able to get in there potentially

[1:59:47] one of the versions of the plans um people were shown walking around the pond and the idea is to have a pathway

[1:59:56] how are you going to protect the neighbor i mean it seems like there should be it doesn't it doesn't go around the pond it skirts I'll see if I

[2:00:02] can find that original plan right here it skirts this this edge this eastern

[2:00:08] edge and then comes along the north the grades didn't allow that to happen this was kind of the final and and it's kind

[2:00:15] of part of the the new prominade underpass idea is that this pathway would connect come through and then go

[2:00:20] through this way as well but also connect up to the NM Creek Trail

[2:00:27] so yeah it's more of an overlook um experience along that edge and a

[2:00:32] couple of respit areas located in two different places member Pierce um so if

[2:00:39] you can go I'm not sure where it is now which one um actually go back one

[2:00:46] okay on this slide um so I got a few questions so to go back to the earlier

[2:00:54] point about all trees just I just making the point when

[2:01:00] I look at this there are trees on here that are marked to be removed and so I assume all trees are

[2:01:10] all the trees that are not marked to be removed so that was the way I interpreted it and so when

[2:01:17] I now go to the picture that we were just looking at so are you are you

[2:01:22] indicating the um sorry these trees as well yeah yeah all those were marked to

[2:01:29] be removed and so the things that were not marked that's what I assume all to

[2:01:35] be saved or all of the ones that are not marked to be removed that's just the way

[2:01:40] I interpreted it right or wrong um and so here's the when I look at this I'll

[2:01:47] tell you guys my my challenge when I look at the photos this one and then there's the other photo that has the the

[2:01:55] where you can see the pond i actually having gone out there and

[2:02:01] seeing these photos I I don't I actually don't

[2:02:07] believe that those trees would provide a ton of

[2:02:15] screening especially because they're not like they're not evergreen trees right

[2:02:21] the ones that were there the ones that were there yeah and so but that doesn't mean what happened

[2:02:28] was okay and I don't think we should try to say "Well we're just going to make it even better right we have to lean into

[2:02:36] the fact that we removed trees we shouldn't have removed them." And somebody should pay for that right

[2:02:46] um there's a lot of blame to go around right and so but when I look at it I do

[2:02:52] have to to be honest with my reality when I look at this i actually don't

[2:02:58] think that those trees were going to provide a ton of screening but we did

[2:03:05] say we weren't going to bother him and we did okay and so with that as my

[2:03:12] personal I'm going to say that's my personal truth now go to your new one

[2:03:20] this looks great right there's more trees there right there trees that

[2:03:27] should provide screening but the challenge is we said

[2:03:32] we weren't going to do something we did and so now we're coming back and we

[2:03:39] are going to approve at some point a plan that we all look at and we say

[2:03:44] "Well that's better than what we had planned to do before." But you can't really go to the You can't

[2:03:51] really go to the residents and say "Well no we didn't do what we said we were going to do but now what we're going to

[2:03:56] do is going to be better without us somehow being able to

[2:04:02] say and here is how you can trust that we're going to do what we said we're

[2:04:07] going to do." And so that's the like for me that's the rub i don't know how to

[2:04:12] answer that but for me that is um the rub um for me um and then the second

[2:04:21] point and I you guys can address that or think about that the second um ask that

[2:04:29] I would have and I don't even know if we do this um and I go back

[2:04:36] to the resident um Norah Davis in this meeting put up a picture

[2:04:44] of 4040 and so you could see she was actually talking about the the uh four

[2:04:52] stories versus three stories um but it just struck me when we were

[2:04:57] looking at this you could see in that photo where there were tree limbs and so uh in the

[2:05:06] past residents in her neighborhood have talked about screening of that

[2:05:13] building and it's easy for us in springtime in the summertime in the fall

[2:05:20] to say "Ah look you're not going to be able to see that because the leaves are there and then those leaves go away and

[2:05:26] you get the view that Miss Davis showed of 4040 so for this like is there some

[2:05:34] way that we can project we talk about sidelines so I

[2:05:41] know we can do sidelines but is there some way that we can project from different spots in the

[2:05:48] neighboring community what their views would

[2:05:53] be with these trees in place so

[2:05:59] that like now we could say ah you know what we thought you know these black

[2:06:06] hill spruces would be good but yeah it looks like that may not provide the

[2:06:11] screening we want they need to be something else and to be able to show that um so that we have some

[2:06:18] comfortability a little bit more um comfortability that it'll be screened we

[2:06:23] use these these circles and right or wrong I think we

[2:06:28] internalize that as screening and if they're over overlapping circles we think well that's going to screen

[2:06:35] completely that's just the way we we internalize it but that's not actually

[2:06:40] true so is there So then my second question is is there some I don't know I

[2:06:46] guess I'd say modeling tool or something that could

[2:06:51] help us see u what the impact might be to the residents

[2:06:57] that's it yes we can definitely do that um I think uh it was a quick turnaround to you know

[2:07:05] with reaction getting people out on the site and getting some feedback and us drawing up a plan and then coming back

[2:07:10] with a revised plan that kind of provided what we think is a good mitigation but we could easily take one

[2:07:17] of the photographs and photoshop in what it's going to look like from this side if with permission from the resident

[2:07:24] yeah yeah we could go into their yard take a picture um from their patio or their view and show exactly what that

[2:07:30] looks like we we do that all the time i've done that for buildings uh you know that are proposed and what the screening

[2:07:37] will look like over time or what it'll look like set in an existing forest area there's always this misconception

[2:07:43] understanding when you see these voluntary forests that look lush and full and then all of a sudden you pull

[2:07:49] the trees and the ground cover and the shrubs from the edge and it's like there's no branches on this thing it only has green on the top um so it's

[2:07:57] it's always tough for sure um the the point about the trees in the bottom and

[2:08:02] what would remain all trees or just the trees that were past that one line the hard part is is the thing that trumped

[2:08:08] this location was the storm water requirements because it had to have storm water so those trees with the

[2:08:13] storm water requirements would not have survived in this location they're all volunteer box elders um they're not even

[2:08:19] on your plantable list in the city but they wouldn't have survived with the influx of storm water that is going to

[2:08:25] be happening here now that it's actually a maintained system versus a parking lot well I'm sure the residents would

[2:08:31] appreciate having that kind of a analysis if you would by the 16th um can

[2:08:37] you have that done by the 16th yes perfect yes

[2:08:44] i do it are you serious across multiple seasons

[2:08:51] yes all right yes the big ones the big one is summer and win anybody else yeah

[2:08:57] um was it related to this yes okay well can I just let me just ask

[2:09:05] my second one and then I'll be done um I do want you to think about the

[2:09:12] first question like how do we what what commitment whatever words you want to

[2:09:19] use so that um I'll let the developer answer that question well and you don't have to answer that

[2:09:25] tonight but that's a question that that I have cuz for me that is the the rub i

[2:09:31] think we're going to end up with actually a plan that's better than what we had before and if you're able to show

[2:09:40] us what the user or resident experience will be we can adjust it even more like

[2:09:48] I that feels good to me but I still have the rub of well how can we assure the

[2:09:54] community that though we didn't do what we said we're going to do the first time we will

[2:09:59] this time um and so when you come back on the 16th you can answer that i'd be

[2:10:05] totally fine with that i think that's a question more for Director Teague but if you're asking the

[2:10:11] question what are the legal rights of the neighbors that had trees cut down on

[2:10:16] private property and what are the city's rights relative to the developer

[2:10:22] uh being responsible for not doing what was required under the resolution those are questions for Kendall and I think

[2:10:29] and Kerry Teague as well as the developer what are you

[2:10:34] saying he what he wants to do has nothing to do with what the legal rights are of the private property owners and

[2:10:41] the city oh they might suggest for a solution oh sure yeah so I was That's

[2:10:46] what you were asking yeah i wasn't thinking about necessarily the private um the other homeowner i was speaking

[2:10:54] more specifically about we had a site plan that marked some trees that were not supposed to be removed that were

[2:11:00] removed you're right some of those were removed on private property um and so

[2:11:06] we've we will address that um the developer is talking to those owners to

[2:11:13] figure that piece out and then the commitment is what I'm saying now we're

[2:11:18] going to end up with a new plan that will get approved so what assurance can

[2:11:23] we give that we are going to honor that plan that's more what I was saying i'm gonna have member Risher hold her

[2:11:29] thought because I want to go to member Agnet who's been waiting thank you mayor um so Mr carlson why

[2:11:36] wasn't the property line staked out and tree production fencing applied in that

[2:11:41] area um I don't have an answer for that question Council Member Agnu other than

[2:11:47] my team screwed up is that common practice for you across your your sites and properties my common practice is to

[2:11:54] hire best-in-class team and evidenced by the man standing next to me today and

[2:11:59] the typical people that we work with so um I don't have an answer for you other

[2:12:05] than it should have happened the site was very thick it's very steep i think there was direction from multiple

[2:12:10] parties that the trees would not survive in in the location that they were that they're not on the city's list of

[2:12:16] approved trees and when the contract sub uh subcontract contractor was there they

[2:12:22] were directed that if they thought it was in uh the best for the city not

[2:12:28] necessary best for the city but to follow the city's forestry policies that they should potentially be removed so

[2:12:33] that's what happened so I don't have anything else to offer other than it was a mistake

[2:12:41] okay i mean it it's clear right this is a difficult situation for everyone

[2:12:46] because we can't put the trees back right like we're in a situation where we

[2:12:53] can't go back i have a lot of empathy for the people who border this and I have a lot of empathy for the

[2:12:59] neighborhood and the people around it and no one wants to be standing here uh to explain the screw-up but when things

[2:13:04] happen and I lead a team it's my job to accept the responsibility so that's why I'm here and furthermore my

[2:13:10] responsibility is to try to take a crummy situation make it better or lemons into lemonade so when you hire

[2:13:16] best-in-class people they don't dodge the responsibilities and they're going to make things right so that's the

[2:13:23] intent of my team that we will go above and beyond to make this situation as

[2:13:30] best as we can in light of the fact that uh some trees that were shouldn't have been removed were removed thank you

[2:13:36] thank you for that i think a another part of this and and I'll echo the overall sentiment that member Pierce had

[2:13:44] in I I do agree that in time I believe

[2:13:50] that the tree coverage will be better with this plan than it was previously i

[2:13:55] I do believe that um what's hard though right when we're having these conversations especially with the

[2:14:01] residents there is on what time frame and so that would be another component

[2:14:07] that I want to understand when you compact i know that there's not going to be an answer to that tonight um but

[2:14:13] understanding you know what will it take from a number of years perspective to

[2:14:20] get to that full growth that we're anticipating these trees to get to when you look at some of those pictures they

[2:14:27] were big trees and you know I I won't you know argue whether it aligns to

[2:14:33] those trees and that that species to our city policy or any of that they were

[2:14:39] they looked from the pictures like older trees um and so I know that it will take

[2:14:45] years and I I kind of want an estimate on are we looking at 5 years 10 years 20

[2:14:51] years to get to that ideal state because that that matters right when we're

[2:14:57] talking about the impact to the residents um so no not expecting an

[2:15:03] answer on that tonight but when you come back um what we'll do is in those renderings we talked about um and I

[2:15:09] think when Mr carlson meets with the resident hopefully he can get a couple photos from that view of the property

[2:15:15] but we'll show you what it's going to look like day one and then we can show you what it's going to look like in 10

[2:15:21] years and that'll give you an idea of what it's going to be okay so a rough idea we don't know what nature's going

[2:15:26] to do and what's going to happen but um that'll be the intent thank you um if you could also pull back up the the

[2:15:33] imagery um that shows the red circles the big ones and the little ones and help me understand the distinction of

[2:15:41] why there are it looks like a similar species potentially that has a small

[2:15:48] circle as well as a larger coverage circle are those actually the same species or are they different species

[2:15:54] you're talking about these little You're talking about these little red ones here or No on the right side there's like a

[2:15:59] big red circle and then like a medium circle so the red on this side was the

[2:16:04] the note above says the red on this side are just the additional trees added to the approved plan so after what happened

[2:16:12] we came back in and added everything in red here everything in red here was not in the original plan um it was only to

[2:16:19] the edge of the property line so we added all these in but what was added in

[2:16:24] there are um a variety of sizes and a variety of tree species it's kind of been generalized here a little bit but

[2:16:29] most of the ones on this edge of the property line are all the coniferous trees that were added in kind of for

[2:16:35] that allseason screening and then we back that up with some deciduous planting in and behind it so that's

[2:16:40] where you see some of the larger circles those are hackberries and maples and different things like that so um kind of

[2:16:47] trying to fill in get that same size canopy that was there before trees that'll grow 40 50 feet tall at full

[2:16:53] maturity so wonderful thank you for that clarification yeah and it's the same thing on this side by the way as well so

[2:16:59] these are these are smaller evergreen these are a larger evergreen and then you'll kind of see the mix in here these are some birch trees um these are some

[2:17:06] swamp white oaks and different things like that so okay thank you um so what

[2:17:12] I'm seeing is really there's there's the two I'll say problems right um the first

[2:17:20] is that the trees along the lot line weren't preserved as expected and I

[2:17:25] agree with U member Pierce's assessment of we received a site plan that showed

[2:17:32] which trees would remain and which trees would be removed so I am speaking specifically to the ones that were

[2:17:37] indicated to have remained um so I think that this plan right alleviates those

[2:17:45] concerns replacing those trees that's from my city lens but the other part of

[2:17:52] this is there were trees that were removed from private property and I

[2:17:57] understand that my um levers to pull as a city council member are not as strong

[2:18:03] on the private property component but I want to be included in that story and I

[2:18:09] want to receive assurances that those residents have been communicated with um I want to understand that they've bought

[2:18:16] into and agree with the plan that will be coming to fruition um and I want to I

[2:18:24] want to make sure that those residents feel like we are making them whole again as best as we can knowing that we can't

[2:18:32] uncut trees and we can't make that same level of growth happen overnight um so I

[2:18:38] know we can't wave a magic wand but I do want to know that they've been communicated with and that they're

[2:18:44] buying in um so that will be I think just as important of a component for me

[2:18:49] as we're looking to this site plan and I do know right that we don't have as much of a legal standing there um but I I

[2:18:56] want you as a part of this u mistake Mr carlson that you admit to making to come

[2:19:02] to us with that story and and close the loop on that if you can please message received thank you member Richard

[2:19:11] um I do want to say I went out there i looked at the view from the backyard and

[2:19:18] I do understand that a lot of these trees were volunteers i do understand they were buckthornne my understanding

[2:19:25] is when buckthornne is cut down it comes back and abandoned and that's not necessarily a great thing um so there's

[2:19:34] that but the view regardless of whether it was a forest of shrub you know

[2:19:40] scrappy trees was still something that meant there was screening and privacy

[2:19:48] and now um it was pointed out that you can stand and you can watch people

[2:19:54] actually walk all the way into Luns Berley's there's nothing to block your view you have and there's nothing and so

[2:20:02] uh when I hear we'll put trees in but it's really slopy we're going to have to go down to where it's level i don't know

[2:20:09] if those trees are going to have any impact um and provide any screening so I think you know having really patient and

[2:20:19] you know open conversations with the residents is really important because their experience has been very it's

[2:20:27] changed dramatically with those trees coming down so that's a problem the other thing is uh refreshing to hear it

[2:20:35] was a mistake when it came to not demarcating where the property line is when is it going to be demarcated

[2:20:42] clearly so that we're not going to have any you know issues with people going on

[2:20:48] to the neighboring sites in the future because I you know there's little flags

[2:20:55] but when is there going to be a chain link fence are going to be what kind of screening is going to go up

[2:21:02] well the the site is staked now i don't think that we had planned for a fence of any other kind to demarcate the property

[2:21:09] line here so that will be sufficient well I I think the intent was to really

[2:21:17] just landscape it and and I don't know Terry what words you

[2:21:22] use but improve the hardcape and softscape up to the

[2:21:28] property line and beyond if the residents choose for us to do

[2:21:33] that i don't know if I'm answering your question appropriately again I'm just concerned with that steep slope and

[2:21:40] you're doing you know grading and everything and is that going to slurp on over into the neighboring properties and

[2:21:47] that kind of thing i I think I can answer that you know we're very uh tightly regulated by the water watershed

[2:21:53] district which until now has kind of been left out of this conversation so we need to adhere to all kinds of standards

[2:22:00] Terry to comply with storm water erosion runoff so on and so forth they will be

[2:22:05] providing erosion protection as that basin's built and seated um so none of

[2:22:12] the trees that were removed were on the steep steep part of the slope um they were just on the edge of the property

[2:22:17] line and um a majority of uh that

[2:22:23] area from this property line down is intended to be totally regraded as part of this basin it's intended to have uh

[2:22:30] ground cover seating it's intended to have erosion control blankets it's intended to have a lot of shrubs and

[2:22:36] understory planting as well that will kind of bring it back to a healthier community than the buckthornne but it

[2:22:41] will fill in and it will stabilize that everything beyond this property line up

[2:22:46] um whatever's disturbed as part of this tree planting will be treated in the exact same way to get the seeding and

[2:22:52] the erosion control that's needed to maintain and stabilize it um so that'll help it um from collapsing or being in

[2:23:00] any type of condition i think now that the boundary has changed the same principles that had to be done um to

[2:23:06] follow the erosion control has to be done in this same environment on the

[2:23:12] private property just to be able to maintain it q

[2:23:17] we also um uh the the resident that's on the corner does have a row of evergreen

[2:23:22] trees they're not doing very well in his property so I think when Mr carlson meets with him that's a potential to

[2:23:29] maybe add even another layer of planting but that's on private property so we didn't address that member Jackson yes

[2:23:37] thank you so all this discussion we started with member or director Teague

[2:23:43] um telling us about staking and um putting up tree uh fencing ahead of time

[2:23:51] and I this is an operational question for you Mr carlson um if we had required um as you've

[2:24:00] described sort of a a difference of opinion on the site and a mistake and it sounds like there were a lot of cooks in

[2:24:06] this stew if the city had um put up the staking and the tree fence before you

[2:24:12] were allowed to do any sort of work would that have been effective in protecting these trees yes okay so if we

[2:24:19] adopt that in the future hopefully that will help so operationally they would have looked at that said just we're not

[2:24:24] touching it and and then gone to work and all this uh debate that seemed to have occurred on the site would have

[2:24:31] been moot correct manager Neil wants to weigh in on this issue we don't stake the city

[2:24:37] doesn't stake the site the property owner does that but if we had the requirement that they couldn't do any

[2:24:43] work before it was staked and and wrapped can can we require that can be our requirement right yeah so if we put

[2:24:48] that requirement in and that would have been in place then this whole argument and dispute wouldn't have happened

[2:24:55] potentially yeah well I mean you can there humans can screw up in any number of ways but uh less likely less likely

[2:25:03] okay thank you it would certainly mitigate risk okay good thank you and and to be fair when when we found out

[2:25:10] this happened and came out to the site it literally took us the civil engineer

[2:25:15] and the city forester about 15 minutes to try and figure out the relationships

[2:25:21] of the property line to the site because it wasn't staked and understand how that

[2:25:26] could have happened because we were like "Oh it's those three those three trees no it's those three trees." You know based on the drawing it was really hard

[2:25:32] to understand it but the drainage outflow thing that's on site helped us

[2:25:38] locate the true property line in our minds and that helped us understand what it was so yes I think you're right that

[2:25:45] would have probably helped thank you couple of things um I think it was one

[2:25:52] of the neighbors that first got a hold of me and said this is what was happening i think it was by email and

[2:25:59] then what I recall is that I emailed you right away and I you might have been out

[2:26:05] of town but you you said you'd get right on it and you were you were pretty surprised too as I

[2:26:10] recall um so I appreciate you getting on it but it was it was too late uh but I

[2:26:18] also appreciate you standing up and saying you're responsible this is and you're going to you're going to make it

[2:26:24] right and so that's important i mean it was it's a it's a devastation for the

[2:26:30] neighborhood really but I think we all think we can we can

[2:26:36] make it better you know and we can and you're willing to step up and do that

[2:26:42] you're going to work with those private property owners as my call I think my colleagues have drilled down on all the

[2:26:48] key issues um I thought that member Pierce's idea

[2:26:53] of making sure that neighbors when you meet with them and when you come back here on the 16th we can see some sort of

[2:27:01] photoshoppp notion of what the screening will be like because we all we all drove

[2:27:06] by there for a long time thinking that the trees that were there and kind

[2:27:11] of the scruffy under story stuff would would stay because it was a pretty good screen except probably in the winter

[2:27:18] time when because there were no conifers there but nonetheless even the branches

[2:27:24] helped break up the profile so we're going to try to

[2:27:30] fix something that really never should have happened but things do happen as

[2:27:36] member Jackson points out uh even with the best late plans and manager Neil uh

[2:27:42] one thing I heard in the in this conversation that gave me a little bit of a pause was I'm looking at this

[2:27:48] drawing i'm looking at these trees sizes 15 to 16 ft for a black hill spruce red

[2:27:55] pine 10 to 12 feet i thought I heard you say Mr manaric we're not going to probably be able to get trees that are

[2:28:01] over 8 to 10 feet so I don't want you to come back here on the 16th of April

[2:28:10] if when you come back on the 16th of April let me put it this way make sure you tell us what you can do and you do

[2:28:16] what you say you're going to do all right so if you if the only

[2:28:22] because we face this issue on the west side of Edina trees on slopes that are too big can't go in because they can't

[2:28:29] get the equipment in there that's big enough to handle a big tree like some of these trees so let's make sure we all

[2:28:36] understand what's going in there and if we can't get these size trees in there which are

[2:28:41] big and are we going to have more smaller trees because you've got better spacing capability because they're

[2:28:48] smaller you know I don't know i'm You're the expert on that make sure that what you tell us on the 16th is something

[2:28:56] that indeed is achievable yeah and I think I might have misspoke in the sense of being able to move a tree here with

[2:29:03] equipment smaller equipment that size would be more suitable i said it's part

[2:29:08] of that too with these larger sizes we're probably going to have to use a crane okay because that slope was very

[2:29:15] difficult to drive on so when you put these tree sizes in here it was something you thought was achievable

[2:29:22] yeah yeah it's still Well it's a matter of finding them in the market too for sure and Yeah so I suppose that's

[2:29:29] another issue that we've seen that too that we require trees of a certain size and they're not available then what do

[2:29:35] we do right and this is talking to the city forester too this is kind of what their expectation was um with regards to

[2:29:42] if we can find this this is we the let's make sure they're available before you pledge to provide before we pledge to

[2:29:48] put them in yeah or we'll be trying to grow them faster okay okay yeah all the

[2:29:54] way around i think we're all we all regret that this happened so let's try

[2:29:59] to do the best we can under the circumstances here

[2:30:04] um so when you come back on the 16th what I'm assuming we're going to see for a revised landscaping plan that would

[2:30:12] apply to phase one is the existing plan plus the new trees added in

[2:30:20] yeah and that's currently what this is showing yeah it'll it'll be like this yeah okay

[2:30:28] you Yes the uniqueness of this is that the landscaping and the site work on 7200 as part of the 7250 project the

[2:30:35] phase one project as you noted and then also on the 16th would be the uh final

[2:30:41] site plan and SIPA for 7200 is that correct

[2:30:46] i'm sorry i was chatting say that again ask your question again i was thinking about uh on the 16th as it relates to

[2:30:53] the 7200 project that would be final SIP and site plan correct correct as well as

[2:31:00] taking care of this issue as well as adjusting 7250 to fix this so I think

[2:31:05] Director Teague will modify his request yes accordingly but we'll cover all the

[2:31:12] same things we were going to cover tonight but we'll have a revised landscape plan that'll tie into phase

[2:31:17] one which is being worked on now as opposed to phase two yes sir so the material goes in sooner

[2:31:26] yes okay and how does that interface with doing the

[2:31:31] um the the storm water drain i'll call the storm water drainage

[2:31:36] pond that means you'll have to accelerate that too i would take I would take it

[2:31:42] yeah that grading has to occur i mean you wouldn't want to put all those new trees in and then come back in and dig

[2:31:47] the pond out right no and it's also tied to removing the cell tower

[2:31:53] that's currently on site okay so there's a lot more nuances that we needed to to

[2:31:59] elements all the elements of that we'll see on the 16th you'll have thought all that through yes okay all right good

[2:32:06] that prompt any other thoughts from council members or staff just member

[2:32:11] Pierce oh just to not to forget to answer the my second question and just

[2:32:17] whatever our plan is how can we assure um residents in the city that we're

[2:32:25] we're going to execute against it so that's the other that can be in the presentation

[2:32:31] um as well and I'd just like to offer you know our condolences we're sorry we don't want to be having this

[2:32:37] conversation but when mistakes happen it's up to us to own it so empathize with the situation with you all

[2:32:43] appreciate the dialogue and we're going to do our absolute best to try to improve the situation

[2:32:50] thanks thank you all right thanks gentlemen um for council members um our

[2:32:57] uh development director has recommended that we uh table the matter uh and that

[2:33:03] matter is resolution 2025-25 potentially approving a final site plan and site improvement

[2:33:09] performance agreement for 7200 France Avenue and the uh uh landscaping plan

[2:33:16] that would attach to phase 1 7250 France Avenue to the 16th of April 2025 five is

[2:33:24] there a motion to that effect so moved second member Jackson moves uh member Pierce seconds motion as stated uh any

[2:33:32] further conversation on the matter any further discussion all those in favor of tableabling this matter uh plus the um

[2:33:41] uh consideration of the revised landscaping plan tied to phase 1 for 7250 France Avenue South plus resolution

[2:33:49] 2025-25 to April 16 2025 city council meeting say I I I

[2:33:56] opposed carried and now Director Milner uh you get to talk about uh electric assisted bicycles

[2:34:04] and uh Lieutenant Benny's with us tonight he's going to talk about it a little bit too yeah i bet you don't even

[2:34:11] own an electric assisted bicycle with all these tri triathlete things you do not yet but it's coming there's so much

[2:34:18] fun that we all need one and we would help you fund that through the conservation and sustainability fund if

[2:34:24] you wanted to get a grant to help you purchase your first ebike there you go i'll put a plug in for that so yes we're

[2:34:29] here tonight to talk about electric assist bicycles and ordinance 2025-04 lieutenant Vinnie and myself

[2:34:36] will be giving you the the rundown of this potential change to the ordinance so we heard some concerns last fall with

[2:34:42] some of our younger users of these devices and Attorney Kendall also helped

[2:34:48] us with a lot of this research so state statutes does a great job of regulating ebikes um just for your information

[2:34:54] there is three classes and then there's a whole class of unregulated electric

[2:34:59] mobility devices you see running around i saw two of them on my drive-in today

[2:35:04] for this meeting but class one is assisted up to 20 miles an hour you have to be pedaling to get the assist um

[2:35:11] again minimum rider age is 15 class 2 is 20 miles an hour but you could get to 20

[2:35:17] with just a throttle and class 3 can go up to 28 miles per hour when you're also pedaling all those have a minimum rider

[2:35:24] age of 15 class 3 with throttles do exist but they're not regulated and many of the devices that you see running

[2:35:31] around are not even part of one of these classes cities can only regulate class

[2:35:36] three and the police have many of the tools that they need to address reckless bicycle operation as they do for motor

[2:35:43] vehicles there was various transportation conferences that myself and Lieutenant

[2:35:48] Vinnie have have attended over the last few months ebikes serve a very important

[2:35:53] transportation function for some so we don't want to reduce those freedoms because that's some of some of our

[2:35:59] residents only opportunities for transportation so we'd rather educate on proper behaviors than to reduce those

[2:36:06] freedoms three Rivers Park which has various uh trail networks through our city and many other cities also regulate

[2:36:13] behaviors they don't regulate classes and they educate on proper use and operation so let Lieutenant Vinnie just

[2:36:20] speak on what we intend to do from education and outreach yeah so our goal is educate not heavy-handed right so

[2:36:27] we're working on with our communications team and we just don't have anything to show you right now unfortunately but

[2:36:33] it's being it's in the process it's in the works we feel confident that we're going to get you something out there to work with the schools and work with the

[2:36:39] community to make sure that they understand um what we want to achieve with the uh

[2:36:45] ebike stuff here so what are we doing with the ordinance tonight we are updating definitions to match match

[2:36:52] state law we're adding bicycle path bicycle trail shared use path requiring

[2:36:58] all ebikes operated to obey state law and we're adding that anyone under 18

[2:37:03] years of age are required to wear a helmet and adding a petty misdemeanor for anyone under 18 years old not

[2:37:10] wearing a helmet so we're recommending you make these changes this evening on first first reading and wave second

[2:37:16] reading and we'd be happy to stand for any questions questions member Risser and then member

[2:37:23] Jackson i appreciate the work and the goals of this my concern is with the

[2:37:31] definition of sidewalk and when I look at the document in front of us it's um

[2:37:37] says sidewalk means an improved thoroughfare located on a public rightway or public easement limited to

[2:37:44] uses by pedestrians and bicyclists and the bicyclists has been

[2:37:50] added and what has been taken out is non-motorized vehicles okay and um I did

[2:37:57] get an email from a resident who pushed back on this definition as well because

[2:38:02] limited to pedestrians and bicyclists what about all those trike riders you

[2:38:08] know you're really hitting a vulnerable demographic they can't use the sidewalk

[2:38:13] um and what I would encourage instead of this definition of sidewalk use the

[2:38:20] definition of sidewalk that is in Minnesota statute

[2:38:27] 169.011 and then we would be consistent since we're citing that statute and that

[2:38:34] definition is sidewalk means that portion of a street between the curb

[2:38:39] lines or the lateral lines of a roadway and the adjacent property lines intended

[2:38:45] for the use of pedestrians and I didn't have a lot of time this weekend because

[2:38:50] we were at the retreat but I did look at um ordinances regarding sidewalk use

[2:38:57] from some neighboring municipalities and I'm not seeing language like the language that is being

[2:39:05] proposed where we say limited only to um pedestrians and bicyclists that it

[2:39:11] usually is this this kind of nuanced intended for the use of pedestrians end

[2:39:18] of story but in Minnesota as this law that is cited in

[2:39:23] this draft um points out that it you know includes all kinds of bicycles so I

[2:39:31] guess I just really have problems with the definition of sidewalk i don't think

[2:39:36] it's appropriate well I think I could help on that i think some years ago we decided that you

[2:39:42] could we'd allow bicycles on sidewalks we Yes and a lot of other cities do that

[2:39:49] but to specifically say all sidewalks are for pedestrians and bikers is also

[2:39:55] problematic because we do have the multi-use paths that have to be 8t wide minimum and some of our sidewalks are

[2:40:02] just 5t wide and we're not saying that bikes can't go on sidewalks but we're

[2:40:08] saying we're not limiting it just to pedestrians and bicyclists but we we're using language that is used by the state

[2:40:15] of Minnesota and other cities um intended for the use of pedestrians and then everything else sort of falls into

[2:40:22] place including the regulations in those statutes um requiring people to you know

[2:40:30] make a noise when they're going to go past to slow down you know to do all of those things i think that but I think

[2:40:37] the inference from using a state definition of sidewalk is that it says it's intended for the use of pedestrians

[2:40:43] therefore the inference would be it can't be used by anybody else other than pedestrians but if we say it can just be pedestrians and bikers then it can't be

[2:40:51] anyone using a tricycle it can't be anyone using a scooter um scooter is not

[2:40:57] a bicycle that's my point right but I would we

[2:41:02] haven't we haven't addressed the scooter but the reason that bic you know the bicycle definition under 4B of that

[2:41:09] section that you cited says it does not include scooters motorized foot scooters or similar devices to your point early

[2:41:15] on those are the things we're kind of worried about those are the things that are going down the sidewalk 25 miles an

[2:41:21] hour so the question I was going to ask was what are we going to do about motorized foot

[2:41:27] scooters because that's where kind of this whole conversation started people were walking out their front door and

[2:41:32] stepping onto the sidewalk in front of the house and some kid was going by 20 miles an hour on a on a scooter on a on

[2:41:38] a foot scooter so that's that's regulated by state statute as well too

[2:41:43] the speed limit on those is actually 15 miles an hour so we have the ability to

[2:41:48] interact and intervene with those things just like and when anybody's careless or reckless we have the opportunity if

[2:41:54] we're in the right place at the right time to address that that's where the education and awareness that we're working with our communications team on

[2:42:01] is going to be key with this and um I kind of mentioned a little bit about the schools um that partnership that we're

[2:42:06] going to need with the schools to help communicate this stuff is going to be a big part of that as well too i don't

[2:42:12] think um most parents even know that if you're not 15 you can't ride an ebike um

[2:42:19] or what some of the rules or laws are regarding scooters or some of those other devices as well including some of

[2:42:26] the um motorized vehicles that you can get on the internet right now that are

[2:42:32] not ebikes and they're not being regulated so those that's where the education comes in to try to like let

[2:42:37] parents know that what you're buying is not an ebike right and your child needs

[2:42:43] to be at least 15 years old i think if we can get around that we're going to make a lot of headway um just starting

[2:42:48] all of that stuff out too member and then we'll go to Attorney

[2:42:54] Kendall i think Thank you um mayor so it

[2:42:59] was it was a couple months ago now that we first initiated this conversation and if I recall it was probably in the fall

[2:43:06] when we saw an uptick of students getting to school this year on their

[2:43:12] bikes and their their ebikes I should say and there was observed behavior that

[2:43:20] caught that was fear fearful right like we're worried for those students we want

[2:43:25] to figure out how do we improve the situation and so how I understand you

[2:43:31] know that we've come to this spot is wanting to say okay what can we do right

[2:43:37] like what mechanisms do we have as a city to help protect not just our

[2:43:42] residents as a whole but especially youth and students across our

[2:43:47] community when when they're not aware of sometimes the risks and sometimes the laws that exist today so I really really

[2:43:55] like the focus on education because you know that that has to be the primary

[2:44:02] component especially hearing now too where we can govern where we can and

[2:44:08] and some of those things so I have one very like tactical question given what

[2:44:13] I'm seeing on the screen here and then I have a a broader question I'd love your perspectives on um

[2:44:19] so what is a petty misdemeanor like what are the implications of that um and is

[2:44:26] there any additional repercussions for repeat offenders

[2:44:32] um as a juvenile no it's a petty misdemeanor is like a speeding ticket you know so it doesn't go on their record or anything like that my goal is

[2:44:39] not to have my officers hand out a bunch of petty misdemeanor tickets that's not what's there it was kind of a last line

[2:44:44] of defense when you have that person who is um maybe a repeat offender or something you know hey we talked to you

[2:44:49] last week you called your parents you know at some point we're going to have to hold you accountable for what you're

[2:44:54] doing there so so does it have a fee or a fine I guess I should say and it depends it's juvenile court so they can

[2:45:00] kind of take a variety of but traditionally it's a it's going to be some type of fine based you know for the

[2:45:05] parent you know that would have to work with their child on that so okay thank you um and so I guess more broadly right

[2:45:14] we I appreciate the focus on the education and then we also have an ordinance in front of us and so I I

[2:45:20] appreciate member Risser's comments about you know trying to dig into the the definition of a sidewalk um but

[2:45:27] before I even can begin to form an opinion on that I'm trying to

[2:45:34] understand what like tie that thread together for me of how does US defining

[2:45:42] a sidewalk as being limited to usage by pedestrians and bicyclists instead of

[2:45:47] pedestrians and non-motorized vehicles how does that help us with making

[2:45:53] students safer on ebikes

[2:46:01] it's it's a great question i so the the interesting part of trying to put this

[2:46:06] together is after we went to the summit we learned that like 31% of the population doesn't drive you know so

[2:46:12] this is a transportation freedom that we're trying to protect as we were trying to draft this and create this

[2:46:17] right and as we you know kind of learned about sustainability is that the there's going to there's going to be a push from

[2:46:24] um like Minnesota bikes where that five mile or less trip they're going to try to encourage people to try to use ebikes

[2:46:31] and some of that stuff too we're just we're not there yet right because our infrastructure isn't necessarily completely set up but we're going to

[2:46:36] start seeing more push for um not using your car for those 5 mile or less trips

[2:46:42] so how do we create an environment where those who are using ebikes as a form of

[2:46:49] transportation able to network through our communities um the way it's set up

[2:46:56] and I think that's what the the I guess our thread with that was was trying to figure out how do we allow people to

[2:47:03] navigate with these ebikes um safely and then allows us to with the the the

[2:47:10] helmet law and the education in the schools to address kind of a small portion of the population that seems to

[2:47:15] be ruining it for the rest of them so and sidewalks have to be part of the transportation system there's not enough

[2:47:20] there's not bike lanes everywhere but there's more sidewalks so we felt we needed to allow continue to have

[2:47:26] bicycles and ebikes because that's what we did 10 years ago and we allowed it um and it all comes down to behaviors you

[2:47:33] can be a regular cyclist and be a jerk and be on the sidewalks and causing problems too so it's I I even struggle

[2:47:40] with the ebike definition because it's any cyclist it's any scooter it's just people need to be nice and respectful of

[2:47:46] all users when they're on sidewalks or trails or the road for that matter we're seeing a lot of those behaviors yeah and

[2:47:51] I think that kind of pairs with the other the way I was thinking about this is what are the other behavior

[2:47:58] modifications that we're trying to encourage and so are I'm asking this as a question to you

[2:48:05] so that then we can as a council kind of debate it are we saying that we want

[2:48:10] ebikes to be able to move around the city on sidewalks and within that are we

[2:48:20] desiring whether or not we have the capa cap capability to do so or not are we

[2:48:26] desiring any governance within that whether it's a 15 mph speed maximum or

[2:48:31] or what have you tonight we want you to allow ebikes on sidewalks

[2:48:39] okay um so that that's helpful because you know a lot of the concerns and the

[2:48:44] feedback that we did get was around the speed of which ebikes in particular can

[2:48:51] go and I do know that bikes can go fast too right if someone's pedaling really hard

[2:48:56] um do you share those concerns that as a result of this we might have people

[2:49:02] going 20 25 28 m an hour on a sidewalk on an electric bicycle and if that is a

[2:49:10] shared concern do we have any mitigating factors we can include in this to

[2:49:16] prevent that from happening at this point I don't think so i'm more concerned about the UN the ones we're

[2:49:22] seeing they're unregulated bikes they're way above any class they're almost like a motorcycle i had someone riding right

[2:49:29] next to me on my drive here riding a wheelie on an E something that's not even one of these classes so this

[2:49:35] ordinance is not going to address many of the bikes that bikes devices i think

[2:49:41] the education goes to the parents and what kind of thing you're buying for your parents in the first place when you're under 15 that's not even allowed

[2:49:46] by state law so other mitigating factors at this point I don't see any no and the

[2:49:52] one of the speakers that spoke we were we asked the questions okay you're in law enforcement what do you do how do you what do you do and they said don't

[2:49:58] they said try not to regulate the speeds or the the classes really focus on your education

[2:50:04] awareness on uh the behavior the etiquette and that those sorts of things

[2:50:09] um Still Water for example has a really nice uh bike system out there and

[2:50:15] they've been battling this for for years right so they have some pretty good um experiences with um their emphasis is to

[2:50:23] um the education piece um a few times a year they'll set up a tent where they'll have like a booth or like a bike shop to

[2:50:30] set up and try to you know interact with people and stop and stuff like that and um and working with the parks department

[2:50:36] and stuff i think we have the definitely have an opportunity to kind of just start enhancing all of that as we move

[2:50:41] forward with what you know trying to trying to curb behavior is really what it is

[2:50:47] so it sounds like to this the point specific to should we attempt to govern

[2:50:55] speeds of any vehicle I'll say motorized or

[2:51:00] bicycle or tricycle or scooter on our sidewalks it sounds like you've heard

[2:51:06] from others that that's not best practice why because what what I'm hearing from residents is they are

[2:51:12] directly concerned with people who are going 20 miles an hour and so if we

[2:51:17] limited speed to 15 miles an hour on sidewalks in particular what is the the

[2:51:23] negative externality of that i think state statute already regulates

[2:51:29] speeds somewhat yeah i I think it's important to remember i

[2:51:35] mean the police have tools to regulate speed if it's reckless or any behavior that's reckless so it can be very hard

[2:51:43] to enforce like a particular speed limit in court like if if the the officer is

[2:51:48] going to be put in a position to try to testify that they visually observed some ebike going 16 miles hour rather than 15

[2:51:55] miles hour it's it's hard to prove up in court what they can prove up is you know

[2:52:01] was the behavior reckless i mean if you're doing 15 miles per hour weaving through people walking on the sidewalk

[2:52:07] they can write a ticket for that and have it be easily enforceable whereas you know if you're just doing 15 miles

[2:52:12] an hour versus 16 or 17 near no other people um that's going to be a hard

[2:52:19] offense to prove so I think the as staff and I work through this pretty

[2:52:24] extensively I think the point we kept coming back to is if anyone including

[2:52:30] children or adults is operating any vehicle whether it's a regular bicycle

[2:52:36] with no assist or an ebike or one of these vehicles that's above the class of

[2:52:41] an ebike that's almost like a motorcycle they can be stopped and cited for reckless behavior so I think that's

[2:52:50] where staff ultimately landed on this ordinance is not trying to regulate the

[2:52:55] particular type of vehicle you know not having officers stop and try to identify is this a class three or class two i

[2:53:02] mean as it whizzes by you know or after you stop them are you going to try to identify that it's going to be difficult

[2:53:08] so this is kind of the best solution that the police department and director

[2:53:14] Miller and others came up with in terms of um just regulating the types of

[2:53:19] behavior that people are concerned about as as opposed to the particular details of the vehicle or the exact speed thank

[2:53:28] you um I am outnumbered by lawyers up here which I always appreciate so thank

[2:53:33] you for the additional feedback on that um I guess going then back to just the member Risser's final point or a point

[2:53:39] that she made um when we look at the definition of sidewalk I think by saying

[2:53:44] bicyclists we do potentially narrow it more so than we want to of of what we're

[2:53:49] um trying to regulate here so we might want to say pedestrians non-motorized vehicles and electrically

[2:53:57] assisted vehicles but then we have cars on the sidewalk so

[2:54:03] well I mean it's just something to maybe noodle on a little bit um Mr kendall um

[2:54:09] because I I do think that there are additional vehicles um that we are are wanting to

[2:54:14] incorporate thank you yeah good good line of inquiry um member Pierce and

[2:54:20] member Jackson we'll go right down the line thanks Mr mayor um so I think you guys are being too

[2:54:27] hard on yourselves we had nothing

[2:54:33] before what you're presenting to us right and so I think we should start

[2:54:40] with that lens um so this is an for sure an improvement um now I think about

[2:54:47] these things which wouldn't surprise you differently than what you've heard

[2:54:52] before so far i don't really think it matters what the definition of a

[2:54:58] sidewalk is um we could change that to

[2:55:04] whatever because this is an ordinance that is not enforcable and so if we're not going to

[2:55:11] enforce it then it's going to come down to two things which you've already said

[2:55:18] education and I actually think signage so we did talk a little bit about uh

[2:55:24] signage before um and so I think in these cases I honestly only think of an

[2:55:34] ordinance as a document to

[2:55:40] guide the awareness and signage you're going to provide and so when a when kid

[2:55:49] goes to school and you're doing the education that says you can't these are

[2:55:54] the things you can't do you have to have some document to guide you on what you're going to say to me that's what

[2:56:01] this is um and if the kid comes home with a piece of paper and says "Hey this

[2:56:09] is what we learned in school." then I would assume a

[2:56:15] parent might go look up that well what what does the city say about this and

[2:56:22] that's where the ordinance will be and it'll have whatever material whatever points we're we're trying to educate on

[2:56:30] will be there um and so I actually think

[2:56:36] skinnier is is better rather than trying to have everything in mayor um but

[2:56:43] that's just a different approach and I say that because it's an ordinance that

[2:56:50] like we're really you're not going to be patrolling um the same that you do

[2:56:57] vehicles that are driving and violating the speed limit um and so that's just

[2:57:03] kind of how I I think about it um that enforcement to me of this is very

[2:57:10] unlikely the one thing that um I think is a

[2:57:18] concern would be the class of vehicles in you know somehow

[2:57:26] saying above a certain class and I'm I haven't even looked to see how these these things are classified uh but

[2:57:34] certain things are not allowed at all right just saying they're unsafe you

[2:57:40] have to be a certain age um and they're not allowed on our streets sidewalks

[2:57:46] however we define that um I think having that and then if a police officer is

[2:57:55] driving by and sees someone on that then we should enforce that right

[2:58:02] and if it's a misdemeanor misdemeanor or a petty misdemeanor

[2:58:07] um I can promise you if you send Caitlyn Pierce home with one of those I don't I

[2:58:12] don't care what the what the definition is that's not going to be good for her

[2:58:17] um but that's how I I that's the part of it that I have more concern about that

[2:58:24] we have more and more of those um on the streets when I think this is like you

[2:58:29] mentioned a good first step yeah the definition of classes i don't even think that's the thing it's it's power it's

[2:58:35] how many watts do these things have because some of these go 40 miles an hour so there's so many of them that we

[2:58:41] can't define them at this point i think we need to continue to watch and learn from industry and then maybe that's

[2:58:46] coming back and updating this ordinance when And then the the only other note I had was this definition of I there's no

[2:58:53] definition of reckless but we talked about reckless um we we do have to protect you

[2:59:02] guys and if we don't have an ordinance that says this is by definition how

[2:59:07] we're going to um apply this ordinance then you are at risk then it's so

[2:59:14] subjective to say well that person was being reckless or they weren't um and so

[2:59:20] that's the reckless and the class those two pieces um are the things that I

[2:59:27] would be most concerned with um and like I said reckless is going to end up being

[2:59:34] subjective um so I applaud you for this first take

[2:59:42] a rejection yes thank you Mr mayor i'll make this brief um I I think member Pierce saying

[2:59:50] this is difficult to enforce went to my primary question but I'm thinking of I

[2:59:56] got an email from a lady who walks two dogs i walk my dog he's a puppy he goes

[3:00:01] all over the place i see a kid coming down reckless you know riding one of

[3:00:07] these motorized bikes i've seen kids like nineyear-olds riding some of this stuff what can I do so that I feel safe

[3:00:16] so the dog feels safe and the kid is safe i I think it would be heartbreaking if a kid were to like run into a dog

[3:00:23] leash and wipe out and break a leg or kill the dog i mean we that's also

[3:00:29] protection of the dog how can residents help uh how does this help

[3:00:36] them feel safer on and I know there's part of the education but but help me

[3:00:41] put myself in the shoes of of somebody who's out walking and one of these things dangerously comes whizzing by

[3:00:48] me it's education it's got to start at home nine-year-olds shouldn't be on them in the first place so how do you get

[3:00:53] them off you got to be 15 yeah so it starts at home with the education and going into the schools and

[3:01:00] Yeah and what we learned from our friends out on in Still Water is they

[3:01:05] have the same thing right the walkers complain about the joggers joggers complain about bikers and all that stuff but um they found that with the signage

[3:01:12] that they were able to put up on the trail system to talk about what the proper etiquette is when you're trying to pass someone you know like coming on

[3:01:19] your left or ringing the bell and those things and our you know we have the one of the best communication departments

[3:01:24] around that can help us figure out what is that how does that translate how does that catch to remember you know kind of

[3:01:30] we have the lock around the clock right so it's something catchy that we can try to educate and move forward with is

[3:01:37] would be my goal with that i don't know how to specifically to answer that question other than to say the more

[3:01:42] information that we can get out there to educate people to understand what it should look like the better off we're

[3:01:48] going to be and we're also having this discussion as part of the safe and equitable mobility plan so that's bringing living streets the bike and ped

[3:01:54] master plan all into one big plan so that's something you'll see coming later this year early next year yeah so I

[3:02:01] think having the equivalent of a traffic sign out would be great you know

[3:02:07] motorized vehicles not for kids under 15 and in here it says speed limit of 10 so

[3:02:14] you know it says in existing um in the existing um ordinances right at a speed

[3:02:20] no greater than is reasonable and prudent under the circumstances and in no event at a speed greater than 10

[3:02:25] miles hour so just to you know have some have something that so that oh I shouldn't buy my 10year-old a

[3:02:33] motorized bike kind of thing so um thank you that's my comment

[3:02:39] i think uh member was getting at sort of the fundamental question for me this whole debate about sidewalk definition

[3:02:45] or bikes on the sidewalk aside why did you decide you

[3:02:51] wanted to recommend electric assisted bicycles should be allowed on sidewalks

[3:02:57] it's again it's a transportation just like the comments I've shared with the council many years some cyclists are not

[3:03:03] going to ride in the street their only opportunity is a sidewalk whether that's a ebike or a regular bicycle they should

[3:03:08] be allowed to use the sidewalks to me transportation to me the if you balanced out the risks of mixing to member

[3:03:15] Jackson's point of mixing motorized or electric assisted bicycles which are motorized

[3:03:22] uh on the sidewalk with pedestrians I I think it's it's not it's

[3:03:28] I think pedestrians are disadvantaged i'll put it that way so I you know the part of the ordinance that you're

[3:03:34] suggesting that uh electric to clarify that electric

[3:03:39] assisted bicycles should be allowed on bicycle paths bicycle trails or shared use paths and there's other definitions

[3:03:46] that we could probably include in the state statute uh I like that idea but I

[3:03:52] don't I personally do not like the idea that you can ride an electric assisted bicycle on a sidewalk in the city of

[3:03:58] Edina i' I' I'd put them on the street because I don't think when you balance balance risks of harm it's worth it

[3:04:06] because you put the pedestrians at distinct disadvantage with an electric bicycle rider and I would That's my

[3:04:13] feeling yeah and I would offer the next step that rider is now has a

[3:04:18] 10x issue with the interactions with traffic and they're not comfortable riding with cars the interactions with

[3:04:23] pedestrian bikes much less impact you're going to maybe get scrapes and stuff compared to with a car at over 25 your

[3:04:30] likelihood yeah most bikes are on the street anyway but the people they're they're assuming that risk by being a

[3:04:37] motorized form of transportation riding on city streets most of them are on city streets i don't see many other than

[3:04:43] little kids riding a bike i don't see kids on sidewalks

[3:04:48] i I never personally liked the idea that we even allowed bicycles on sidewalks until I thought about well there's kids

[3:04:54] under a certain age that should be on the sidewalk with their bike as they're learning to ride a bike and the training

[3:05:00] wheels come off or the training wheels are on but I I really wrestle with why we

[3:05:06] would allow electric assisted bicycles on a sidewalk

[3:05:12] my personal opinion mayor there is uh something in the statute regarding

[3:05:18] electric bicycles that says a person may operate an electric assisted bicycle in the same manner provided for operation

[3:05:23] of other bicycles so if the D is going to permit Yeah if we're allowing bicycles on

[3:05:28] sidewalks then that's your point right

[3:05:34] but I do think um if I take your comment uh Mr mayor I

[3:05:42] think we're looking through the lens and one of you said this you're

[3:05:48] looking through the lens of people who are riding ebikes and they're not using

[3:05:55] proper etiquette and so we're trying to do an ordinance that covers the bad behavior

[3:06:04] but when I when I and Steph and I are on an

[3:06:10] ebike if there if we're and we prefer to be on the sidewalk just like you said

[3:06:15] but if there are pedestrians in front of us we will get off the sidewalk and pass

[3:06:23] the pedestrians and then get back on but what we're seeing is bikes that are

[3:06:31] much higher class going much faster than this and people are and kids you know

[3:06:38] are popping wheelies and whatnot i don't know that we see re we see responsible

[3:06:43] adults on ebikes not using proper etiquette maybe

[3:06:49] there are but I don't really think that that's the case i think that's true

[3:06:54] general assumption i think it's fair they're not the only ones riding

[3:06:59] electric assisted bikes right and so yeah that's my point is I think we're trying to come up with an ordinance to

[3:07:06] address Yeah i mean this whole or this whole ordinance around bikes on sidewalks is so awkward i mean when you

[3:07:12] look at that section three uh you can ride your bike on the sidewalk and you can ride an electric

[3:07:18] assisted bike on the sidewalk uh uh unless uh you you you can't go over um

[3:07:26] you have to go at a reasonable prudent speed under the circumstances no event over 10 miles an hour you got to slow to

[3:07:32] a walking pace which means you got to get off your bike and walk it really when pedestrians are present you got to

[3:07:38] slow to a walking pace upon approaching when crossing a driveway or an intersection enter driveway or

[3:07:44] intersection with clear of traffic don't ride on sidewalks bicycle paths bike trails or shared paths where the

[3:07:50] entrance or exit of a building abut the sidewalk don't ride on sidewalks where

[3:07:58] posted you know so why would you why if why would you

[3:08:05] even want to try to ride your bike on the sidewalk you're crossing driveways every 50t every 75 ft right and so

[3:08:13] that's where I was going with thing is just ridiculous that's where I was going with those everything that you just read

[3:08:20] that's in there to me that's education helping people understand this is proper

[3:08:27] etiquette when you're on an ebike i just don't think it's going to be

[3:08:33] enforced and so it comes to me down to education and signage so I'm I agree with you the

[3:08:40] the dilemma of how to do that um but it's a challenge

[3:08:49] um there's also if you do read the ordinances that are listed these are

[3:08:55] just a few of the items that were pulled from those ordinances because if you go and you look at what the state has it

[3:09:01] says like leave a safe distance when overtaking a bicycle um make an audible sound when you know

[3:09:09] approaching another bicycle um and there's I mean it's a huge document with

[3:09:16] you know you shouldn't transport objects or have another person on your bicycle if the

[3:09:22] bicycle is not designed for that so there's a lot there but um I want to go

[3:09:28] back to my first point when I looked at what other cities are doing they they

[3:09:33] don't they just kind of limit the idea of sidewalks are intended to be used by pedestrians and it's a sort of beautiful

[3:09:41] simple statement i think that's what St louis Park does um and then you look at the definition provided in the statute

[3:09:49] that Minnesota has and it's it's again sidewalks are intended for pedestrians and then you put in your language about

[3:09:57] how if a bike is going to be on a sidewalk it should be regulated and I'm

[3:10:03] comfortable with that because then it doesn't exclude other users and I think that's important

[3:10:11] and you can say this is the first attempt so why not just take it as is

[3:10:17] but I I think it's important not to exclude um other people you know like on

[3:10:26] tricycles or and some elderly people are now riding tricycles um so that's a

[3:10:32] thing you know you just you have a bike with another wheel and so anyhow I I like the idea i'm only hung up if you

[3:10:40] had not put in bicyclists I would have just totally

[3:10:45] gone for it so I just I think it needs to be tweaked it's kind of like with the

[3:10:50] pet store ordinance i think I would love to see that come back we just need a neat little definition and then we can

[3:10:57] check it off i'll just add like my final thoughts on this

[3:11:03] um earlier in our agenda tonight we had Marissa Bayer come in and talk about

[3:11:09] how the biggest lever that we have for greenhouse gas emissions is around

[3:11:15] transportation and so I you know I hear that we do have residents that feel

[3:11:22] safer using bicycles ebikes what have you on our sidewalk facilities and our

[3:11:28] shared use paths um and so I I do want to continue to encourage that knowing

[3:11:34] how much of a lever that is towards our climate action plan um so just to tie

[3:11:39] those things together for

[3:11:50] us i'll add a couple of quick comments so

[3:11:56] um this ordinance does not have to cover reckless careless behavior that's already covered in state statute there

[3:12:02] there are definitions of that and if police officers see that they can cite that so you don't have to cover that in

[3:12:07] this ordinance um the law regarding bicycles in state statute is

[3:12:15] extensive as member Risser indicated and some of it is somewhat contradictory

[3:12:21] there's some state statutes that indicate it's legal everywhere in the state to operate bicycles on sidewalks

[3:12:28] as long as you're doing so lawfully and then there's another section of a different statute which I cited to the

[3:12:34] mayor indicating it's legal to operate electric bicycles in the same manner as other bicycles so I I think you could

[3:12:42] spend a lot of time trying to make this perfect and maybe never get there

[3:12:48] um we can certainly tweak the definition of sidewalk if that's a sticking point that's not hard to do i don't think the

[3:12:56] definition of I guess maybe in this ordinance relating to bicycles the definition of sidewalk

[3:13:02] excludes tricycles maybe but I don't think that police officers would ever

[3:13:09] cite someone for operating a tricycle on a sidewalk so I mean it's a type of bicycle it's a type of bicycle right i

[3:13:16] mean it's got it's a it's it's got three wheels and not two but it's the same type of vehicle right so I don't think

[3:13:23] you're causing a problem where the police are going to be stopping people from operating certain types of vehicles

[3:13:29] on sidewalks so of course we'll modify the ordinance however council directs

[3:13:34] including modifying the definition of sidewalk if that's um what's requested

[3:13:40] but from my perspective this ordinance does kind of get at the basic goals um

[3:13:48] but if you state statute also does allow cities to do certain regulations of

[3:13:54] class 3 ebikes and if you wanted to look at that that'd be an option staff is not

[3:14:01] recommending that

[3:14:07] i think the bottom line from staff perspective and I won't I won't speak for staff any more than I already have but um it's education and outreach and

[3:14:15] enforcement of careless or reckless behavior and the rest is kind

[3:14:20] of understood that common sense will prevail

[3:14:26] when we decided that a few years ago that we were going to allow bicycles on sidewalks I was concerned about

[3:14:33] commercial areas and other things and I think at the end of the day after

[3:14:39] the conversation we had at the council level I got comfortable with the idea of it and I I haven't heard of any

[3:14:45] accidents that we've had involving bicyclists and pedestrians on sidewalks

[3:14:51] but a point that member made early on uh we have had quite a few I think we all

[3:14:57] have had contact from residents who've had uh near misses with um motorized

[3:15:03] scooters and maybe some electric assisted bicycles

[3:15:12] so back to my uh yeah my concern

[3:15:19] about recommending electric assisted bicycles be allowed on sidewalks and I

[3:15:24] don't I don't know quite what to do with it i suppose we could experiment with it and see vital program basis and look at

[3:15:30] it well you also know staff at the end of the summer and see if we But I I can

[3:15:36] tell you the first time we have an incident where a kid hits somebody walking down a sidewalk and they run electric bike we're going to we're going

[3:15:43] to hear people say to us "What the heck were you guys thinking about you nuts

[3:15:49] you allowed these kids to go down the sidewalk 20 miles an hour and plow into one of us walking down the sidewalk?"

[3:15:55] And I would offer you're not even going to be able to tell the difference between a regular bike and an ebike they're getting to be where you can't even tell cuz the batteries are getting

[3:16:01] so powerful small um well I guess you know staff staff stands if you can

[3:16:07] either table it indefinitely and we can bring it back or you can tell us to adjust it I guess well I think I don't

[3:16:13] know let's say what's the inclination of people you want to vote on this i'd like to change the definition to intended for

[3:16:20] usage by pedestrians because a it's parallel with state statute and I just don't like the word limited because that

[3:16:27] means that we can limit it in a way that we probably can't which section are you in section one um the definition of

[3:16:33] sidewalk uh public rightway or public easement intended for use by pedestrians

[3:16:39] and then then it's parallel and

[3:16:45] um I don't know um and allowed for um you know

[3:16:52] bicyclists and other non-motorized vehicles or and I don't know or we just

[3:16:58] leave it be and we vote on it tonight but I think we have to have something because this is a problem and we can't

[3:17:03] get out and act unless we have an ordinance i think member Pierce has it and and we've got to do something

[3:17:09] because spring is coming and it's going to get dangerous we saw wheelies this evening so

[3:17:17] um if we use the state statute definition in section one which is

[3:17:22] recommended by member Risser and we eliminate the words and bicyclists or what does that do with

[3:17:30] respect to our ordinance that says bicyclists are specifically allowed on

[3:17:35] sidewalks that's still standard is the word

[3:17:43] intent not limited not limiting it to pedestrians only

[3:17:53] are you asking whether you can change the definition i'm asking you I'm asking you if under member Risser's suggestion

[3:17:59] that we use the state statute definition that a sidewalk means um an easement

[3:18:06] limited to usage intended to be used by pedestrians period

[3:18:12] what not limited well not limited but intended

[3:18:20] that makes a difference which is what what I found other

[3:18:27] Why don't we bring the language back at the next meeting we've heard some comments and attorney I think it'd be

[3:18:33] just it'd be better if we could put bring a clean copy to you so if that's the direction that that looks like the

[3:18:39] council's going to go yeah take a look at that if we could get a clean copy of the pet store ordinance because I

[3:18:45] thought that was just right ready to go it just needed a definition

[3:18:52] okay okay bring it back next meeting sure okay thank you thank you thank you

[3:18:59] thanks

[3:19:04] okay um so much for that 9:30 estimate is

[3:19:11] this a motion to table it or because I think you do need to hear that we're going to we're going to entertain a

[3:19:17] motion to uh table uh further discussion on ordinance 202504

[3:19:25] uh to the next meeting of the city council second a motion and second member member

[3:19:31] Pierce seconds any further discussion those in favor of adoption of the motion as stated say I i opposed carried this

[3:19:38] matter is tabled to the next city council meeting which is what April 2nd or

[3:19:43] something april 1st

[3:19:51] um all right now we're on to another interesting topic community comment

[3:19:59] changes i see in some of the emails manager Neil that you've become the owner of this yes that's regrettable

[3:20:06] um I do not have a recommendation for this i'm professionally indifferent to

[3:20:11] how the council wants to handle this and and I should be um this is a a key uh

[3:20:18] element of your role in the community is how you interact with residents um there was some interest expressed from council

[3:20:25] um from council members about uh perhaps ways we could modify the current practices uh I shared with you some some

[3:20:33] potential uh ideas uh really uh from my experience in Eden Prairie before I came

[3:20:39] to Adina in 2010 um is where those came from but they weren't meant to be a

[3:20:44] recommendation they're only meant to say this is how some other community does it there a thousand ways this is done

[3:20:50] across the country in cities across the state in cities all over so that's what

[3:20:55] I would offer you but I think the sense that council I got from council is you

[3:21:01] either want to move on this or put it put it to bed um so that people can feel

[3:21:06] better about it so that's where we are so I could give a little historical perspective too I think as as best I can

[3:21:12] that I think when I first got on the council of course we didn't even have recordings we just we didn't have a

[3:21:18] communications department we didn't have any uh audio or I think we had audio but not visual capability video capabilities

[3:21:27] uh and then um public comment was away at the end of the agenda

[3:21:33] right so people were sitting around until midnight 1 in the morning sometimes to be able to opine on what

[3:21:40] they were concerned about so we we moved that way up to the beginning of the meeting and then we had some folks that

[3:21:48] would take 20 minutes and some folks that would take 2 minutes or 30 seconds and we decided to use a a timer on it

[3:21:56] and allow a reasonable period of time i think many of us had been to the state legislature and had one or two minutes

[3:22:01] to get your point across and we thought three minutes seemed like a adequate period of time to treat everybody fairly

[3:22:08] and let them give their thoughts on issues that were of concern to them uh

[3:22:14] and then as we have the ability now to be able to broadcast to the entire community people's uh thoughts get to be

[3:22:22] shared on a broad basis if folks care to watch the meeting or watch it after the fact

[3:22:27] and um uh that was something that we thought was really transparent and good due

[3:22:34] process and uh put at the beginning of the meeting give everybody three minutes everybody gets treated equally in terms

[3:22:40] of time be gentle about telling them the time is up which I think we're good at

[3:22:46] and then um uh if they've got written materials submit those for the record

[3:22:51] and um we had some issues come up during the fall election

[3:22:56] where I recall that people were using it as political platform and so we talked

[3:23:02] about what are what are some of the things other cities do and we we've found out what other cities do and we've

[3:23:07] talked about what some of the other cities do and uh a lot of them do it different from us eden Prairie is one

[3:23:13] example bloomington's another example where they they just meet in a separate room with an audio recording and people

[3:23:19] they say people can come in and they feel more comfortable not everybody feels comfortable getting up in front of

[3:23:25] the city council on TV and and expressing their opinion uh but as we've gotten all this

[3:23:32] information at least for me um I feel like okay so you get you get

[3:23:40] uh you get um you take you take some uh shots once

[3:23:45] in a while as a public official as an elected official uh maybe friend during public comment it kind of goes with the

[3:23:51] territory uh and so I've come to the conclusion that I don't really feel like

[3:23:56] we should change anything we got a good process and let's just stay the that's

[3:24:01] my opinion is just stay the course if um we get criticized that's that's just

[3:24:07] take it and move on and uh make sure you treat people with respect and and give

[3:24:13] them a chance to give their opinion and um we move on from there so that's kind of that's my that's a little bit of

[3:24:18] history and then I guess I just evolved in my own personal conclusion i don't I

[3:24:24] don't really feel like changing the method that we use right now i think it's a good one

[3:24:31] thank you mayor and thank you for the the introduction uh I I tend to agree i

[3:24:37] think that um as elected officials like that's a part of the role right um the

[3:24:44] one part though that I would just offer for discussion is and this is kind of an

[3:24:50] observation of what some other bodies have done um is there an opportunity for

[3:24:55] us to be more like potentially cut in when there is

[3:25:03] um like critical or directed comments towards a

[3:25:09] staff member um cuz that for me like they're not elected officials and that

[3:25:14] that personally I think crosses a line and so maybe that's something that we could layer in i think some the school

[3:25:21] board may have done something similar of like if your comments are you know

[3:25:27] negatively directed or just like maybe we just say in general like directed at um a specific named staff member that

[3:25:35] that won't be allowed just thinking about some of the the things that make me uncomfortable and that's when we're

[3:25:41] talking about when we have members of the community target staff members by name um I just they're there are staff

[3:25:49] they're not elected officials i just don't feel as comfortable about that there there are some protocols I think

[3:25:55] uh Director Benerat that you you advise people of when they're going to speak on public comment it's certainly something

[3:26:02] that we could we could add to the to the litany of things that we ask people to be mindful of and respectful about is uh

[3:26:10] don't get specific if you've got criticisms of of a staff member just

[3:26:15] make sure you you use it in a general sort of way or make that criticism in a general sort of way about staff versus a

[3:26:22] particular person on staff you know um I've also been involved in city

[3:26:29] councils in the past where the staff member was criticized significantly by a

[3:26:34] council member you know it was kind of that kill the messenger thing and that

[3:26:40] was that was worse we had to deal with that i we will probably have to check

[3:26:46] with um our lawyer just because I do know that like what is it first

[3:26:51] amendment rights um Yeah the content regulation component to

[3:26:56] that um so let's double check that but that's that's where I think for me it does become uncomfortable

[3:27:04] um yeah go ahead member Pierce thank you i um so I don't think I don't think we

[3:27:12] should change anything i have two points to make one I think it is about the

[3:27:19] quorum and so I actually don't have an issue if someone talks about

[3:27:26] staff however if it's done in a way that is disrespectful

[3:27:32] um to any of us then I do think there should be there is decorum that's

[3:27:38] expected we're expected to treat everyone with decorum and that should be reciprocal um and I would highlight um

[3:27:47] Mr mayor that when that has happened the few times that I can think of um there

[3:27:55] are examples where you have done that where you said hey we're not we're not doing that right don't um disparage

[3:28:03] whomever and so I think to me remember Agnu's point I think any of us could do

[3:28:10] that right we don't have to wait for someone to jump in and say hey that

[3:28:16] that's not appropriate Um and so that's one thing that we could have some statement about maintaining

[3:28:22] decorum um so that's one thing and then the second

[3:28:28] point is I started by saying I don't want to change anything i guess with a

[3:28:36] caveat I was intrigued by the comment made and I think this might have been

[3:28:43] you manager Neil um that there's some cities where people

[3:28:48] aren't comfortable coming up front to speak and so I'm not trying to make more

[3:28:55] work but I guess I am kind of asking that question if we would get if by doing

[3:29:03] something to make it easier for folks who aren't comfortable coming up here if

[3:29:09] that increases engagement somehow that we do our standard process

[3:29:15] and there's a process for people who maybe don't want to come up and speak um

[3:29:21] I actually would like that because then we would be providing two vehicles for

[3:29:28] people to give us information um even if that's they're recording something at

[3:29:33] home and submitting it or whatever like I think any of that would be fine um and

[3:29:40] I would definitely be a proponent of doing something like that if we think that that is going to increase an

[3:29:47] opportunity for people to give us feedback well that's true yep

[3:29:57] yep yeah that could be it yeah you raised a really interesting issue you know when I think about having the

[3:30:02] conversation with the mayor of Bloomington uh as I as I sort

[3:30:07] of alluded to on a on a simple sort of basis but he he

[3:30:13] specifically said that there are people now that come that have issues in their

[3:30:19] neighborhood that they feel comfortable talking to the council members about in a more private setting so maybe once a

[3:30:26] month we could carve out you know quit the you know stop the work session early and

[3:30:32] come down here for a half an hour in the mayor's conference room or something and and sit and have people come in but if

[3:30:38] you wanted to give people like uh you know that weren't comfortable being in front of the city council and the whole

[3:30:44] city on on television Yeah we could figure out a method to accommodate that

[3:30:49] periodically right that's an interesting idea

[3:30:56] jackson thank you Mr mayor well and you you have been unfairly faulted for Well

[3:31:03] I switch I threw out an idea and we've had a robust discussion um you know I

[3:31:10] would love for people to keep decorum but that violates the First Amendment you got to take it good bad and ugly and

[3:31:18] um if we turn off the camera the temperature goes down but I the

[3:31:24] discussion has been overwhelmingly from lots of some very nasty comments and

[3:31:30] some very thoughtful comments but overwhelmingly that people enjoy having community comment on the camera um I

[3:31:38] also have heard from people that you know some people have a fear of public they fear public speaking more than they

[3:31:44] fear death and so to come before the city council on camera would be torture for them so I like the idea of a release

[3:31:52] valve for those folks um and but you know I I I do listen to what people say

[3:31:59] and um like I said I I appreciate especially the thoughtful people who put some thought into what they were

[3:32:05] thinking about and didn't just call me names um but that's what ideas are for

[3:32:10] are to to get it stimulated a conversation and I think it's been robust and I'm fine um leaving it the

[3:32:17] way it is but I I really like the idea of a periodic chance for people who don't want to go on camera to come talk

[3:32:23] to us okay thank you member Risser can I ask though just before you said the

[3:32:30] quorum is against the first amendment i don't think that that's true that's not

[3:32:36] So I'm not saying we should we should um censor people but just saying that we

[3:32:44] expect we're being respectful we expect everyone to come in share whatever they want to share but they should respect

[3:32:52] the chambers dest be respectful of us that's all I mean when I say decorum i'm

[3:32:58] not trying to limit what people say but

[3:33:07] Well actually one thing that I did think of is no props um I think the the when the weeds

[3:33:15] came in sorry Miss Weston that was um a little overwhelming um so I think

[3:33:23] we could get rid of props and not violate the first amendment but yeah we want people to we can ask them to um to

[3:33:30] observe decorum if they don't there's nothing we can do about that so yes we

[3:33:36] can ask that to to respect a quorum i think that would be lovely i would never

[3:33:41] have raised the issue if I felt that was happening there is a crossover point too beyond you know they aren't decor if

[3:33:48] they aren't treating then we have to take it well but there's a point at which it could become something other

[3:33:54] than free speech that would be a threat against your life it would be some kind of threat

[3:34:00] intimidation a threat or intimidation yes of course yeah so there's there's no

[3:34:05] blanket ability to come in here and Right but it's pretty broad yeah i don't

[3:34:11] I don't disagree with that but it can cross over into hate speech or something else threats yeah yeah

[3:34:20] uh member I like the way this dialogue is going um and I think we really did

[3:34:26] have some very thoughtful communication and I really appreciated and now I can't remember the resident's name who

[3:34:32] summarized and listened to all of the community comment over a period of a

[3:34:37] year and that was just amazing to me um I have been that person at the podium

[3:34:45] coming forward with an issue as a resident and um I think just for me

[3:34:52] there was an issue I had to come three times and then even after the third time

[3:34:58] what I said got skewed and was not accurate and so I did what I thought was

[3:35:05] the only recourse I had i went on next door um and so I do

[3:35:13] appreciate how sometimes people are here and they're not necessarily showing as

[3:35:20] much decorum as we would like to see and I think it's important um every time I

[3:35:27] came before council as a resident I did not want to be here i didn't I would

[3:35:33] much rather have been gardening at home or you know doing something like that

[3:35:39] but so I think it's important to understand if people are taking time out

[3:35:44] of their lives and they're coming here and they're saying something they really feel they have to

[3:35:51] and you know so I view it that way when people do come forward and I try to stay

[3:35:58] that way i think um it's wonderful thinking about community comment i think it is for us but I think it's for the

[3:36:04] community and um I'm going to stop there because I think we've all said enough

[3:36:09] and I think it sounds like we need do we need a motion or something regarding community comment to keep it the way it

[3:36:15] is or what were we planning to do with this

[3:36:21] and Neil thanks for the sure observations you had uh I'm not sure

[3:36:26] there's a good answer to Council Member Risser's question other than you you certainly can if you want have a have a

[3:36:33] motion to continue current practices and protocols around community comment

[3:36:40] well I think we got maybe a two-part motion one would be that to continue community comment as it is presently

[3:36:46] structured uh but to also explore the opportunity for

[3:36:51] uh a session with residents who don't feel comfortable being on camera

[3:36:57] periodically i won't say once a month but I'll just say periodically and you can look at that so is there a motion to

[3:37:02] that effect so moved a second here's moves member Agnu seconds uh the um

[3:37:11] motion that we continue community comment in its present form and that we explore the opportunity to provide other

[3:37:17] forms of community comment um off camera uh periodically with the city council

[3:37:23] and residents any further discussion all those in favor of the motion stated say I opposed carried

[3:37:31] um all right thanks for that discussion good discussion

[3:37:36] um clerk Allison I don't think anything's come in that we need to be mindful of from a communication standpoint during the

[3:37:43] meeting and uh we'll go now to manager's comments i think we do and I don't have

[3:37:50] anything for you tonight okay uh member Risser you have anything for us i do um we as we said had our

[3:38:00] retreat and one of the ideas that came up was to um work on implementing credit

[3:38:06] card fees and Henipin County does this i don't know if anyone got caught off guard paying for their tabs or whatever

[3:38:13] and you use a credit card and oh my I wish I had come with cash but um I think

[3:38:19] that's a really good idea and the sooner we can implement that the sooner we can start getting that revenue coming in so

[3:38:26] I just encourage that we do that um as quickly as we can do it right don't rush

[3:38:33] it but I mean get it set up and get it going and that is all I have

[3:38:39] all right thank you member Jackson yes thank you Mr mayor so on the front page of the Wall Street Journal this morning

[3:38:46] there was an article that there are uh financers um who are looking at home

[3:38:53] mortgages for condominiums are starting to put condos on blacklists because of

[3:38:59] either they have the condominium building needs a lot of shared um ma

[3:39:05] deferred maintenance or maintenance that is very high or that um they have

[3:39:11] insufficient property insurance because climate change is making property

[3:39:16] insurance incredibly expensive and so when we're looking at different types of

[3:39:22] affordable housing um these condos that are I would qualify as naturally

[3:39:28] occurring affordable housing may it may be more and more difficult for people to buy and sell them because of this

[3:39:35] financing problem so as we're talking about different kinds of affordable housing um I just wanted to put that out

[3:39:41] there um I thought it was pretty alarming i hope the legislature does something about the insurance problem um

[3:39:48] it's it's awful uh it needs to be done on a state level um so that's a bad

[3:39:54] thing but then a really good thing is that the boys swim team won state so we have another state championship in Edina

[3:40:01] and congratulations gentlemen that's very awesome

[3:40:06] thank you member Pierce um you had a journey to Washington DC and uh probably

[3:40:13] some observations about the National League of Cities meeting well I actually wasn't going to give any observations

[3:40:18] tonight but I but I will now um so the

[3:40:24] You want to hold them for another meeting the one comment that I wanted to make um

[3:40:32] was to just give a shout out to the staff um we did have our retreat this

[3:40:38] past weekend and I felt like it was uh very productive um we really had one one

[3:40:47] topic we talked about budget and how to stabilize um our budget changing the trajectory

[3:40:54] that we're on um and I felt like we had um really good we have a really good

[3:41:01] plan in place um and we had great um information uh from the staff and so I

[3:41:09] definitely appreciate all the work that went in um to that session um in terms

[3:41:17] of the National League of Cities Conference um there

[3:41:23] were there there was a theme that I that I would say is probably not um any

[3:41:31] different than times before uh but housing as a challenge right was was

[3:41:39] a theme that um was talked about a lot even in a lot of the general sessions um

[3:41:47] talking about the challenge that we have as a nation and the fact that each

[3:41:54] community is different and so how we're we go about solving that challenge and

[3:42:00] articulating that challenge is different u depending on your community uh but u

[3:42:07] definitely it is a challenge that we have to look at from a federal perspective state perspective and a

[3:42:14] local perspective um I attended two breakouts

[3:42:21] um that were talking about different aspects of affordable housing and so I

[3:42:28] personally had done a lot of work on that um I'll say a year ago was that a

[3:42:34] year ago something like that and um was discouraged

[3:42:40] by my inability to make the progress that I wanted to make um and going to

[3:42:48] the National League of Cities conference and hearing the impact and some of the

[3:42:54] um efforts from other cities kind of reinvigorate I became more um

[3:43:00] reinvigorated say it again

[3:43:08] reinvigorated my um um drive to lean back into that um and

[3:43:16] so I'm thinking about ways to do that so if you're listening

[3:43:22] residents I might be you might be getting an email from me this time versus the other way around um so with

[3:43:30] that that's it oh thank you brag new i don't have anything

[3:43:36] tonight okay thanks uh just a couple things for me one might take a little bit more time

[3:43:43] uh legislative conversation tomorrow about a couple of issues that are important to

[3:43:48] us manager Neil I'll deal with that uh

[3:43:54] member Jackson you raised an interesting issue i had I had a person raise this issue with me and that

[3:43:59] is with respect to condominium associations why aren't they regulated

[3:44:05] like HOAs why aren't HOAs regulated like apartment multif family rental property

[3:44:12] owners interesting and so his point was that as a multifamily

[3:44:19] rental property owner in his case up in St cloud primarily he's come to the conclusion

[3:44:26] that if HOAs were regulated the same way as he was regulated as a multif family

[3:44:31] rental property owner you wouldn't be seeing these problems about ill-maintained

[3:44:37] properties they because they'd have to be adequately financed or make them have they'd be required to maintain the

[3:44:44] property more effectively and so we might not have situations like we have seen in other cities and ours in one

[3:44:51] occasion where we've provided some financial assistant to a condominium group so that was an interesting thought

[3:44:59] um when manager Neil and uh our intern and

[3:45:05] uh uh you know went out to um and member Pierce went out to the National League of Cities i happened to get invited uh

[3:45:13] as I have before uh to the Yale Mayor's College and

[3:45:19] Yale pays the you know they pay the hotel they pay the airfare and there

[3:45:24] were like 50 or 60 mayors there were three of us from Minnesota pretty much

[3:45:30] across the country um Duth me

[3:45:35] Burnsville she and Elizabeth Couts of course happens to be the former president of the US conference of mayors

[3:45:40] So she's usually a natural inviteee uh that first morning uh Monday or Monday

[3:45:46] afternoon was all mayors the mayor's college mayor's college they call it and then on Tuesday they put the mayors in

[3:45:54] with uh 100 CEOs for what they called the CEO summit and that was that was

[3:45:59] really interesting as well that first day I sat next to uh Bill Pat Bill Padudo who was a former mayor of

[3:46:05] Pittsburgh who was the mayor when they had that tree of life synagogue terrible event occurred out

[3:46:13] there um and it still has a remarkable impact on him as a as a person and a

[3:46:21] neighbor who you know lived near near the synagogue and he's interesting to talk

[3:46:27] to about that particular problem uh Muriel Bowser the uh gave the opening remarks mayor of Washington DC you know

[3:46:34] we think we got challenges around here around um post George Floyd post postcoavid uh empty offices hybrid work

[3:46:44] uh they're expecting to lose 40,000 employees at the federal government most

[3:46:49] of them a lot of them live in Washington DC and so she's got issues that uh that

[3:46:57] none of us none of the rest of us have uh we got John Kasich the former

[3:47:03] governor of Ohio on um was he speaker of the house too i can't remember uh on

[3:47:10] video and he was talking about uh in public service you got to be thinking about being creative ignore the risks

[3:47:17] and be creative you got to be out there on the cutting edge when you're doing local government work so something to

[3:47:22] think about um other folks that we had a discussion

[3:47:29] around uh federalism um economic well-being we had the one of the

[3:47:34] economic adviserss to President Trump there a guy named Steve Moore who actually uh is at odds with the

[3:47:40] president on tariffs on Mexico and Canada he doesn't he thinks that's a mistake he thinks China should be our

[3:47:46] main concern uh wants to make the Trump wants to see the Trump tax cuts made

[3:47:52] permanent um and uh some other things that he

[3:47:58] talked about as well um we'll go into detail on that ron Clay

[3:48:04] uh who now was with Airbnb who worked for um President Biden was there uh by

[3:48:11] video as well um and talked about the cities being the fundamental building blocks of our economy

[3:48:18] um and talked about what he viewed as the keys to success including highquality education and permitting

[3:48:25] reforms as necessary uh and each city needs to have its own strategic uh plan

[3:48:32] and and strategy around making it more successful

[3:48:39] um when we had and then we also had Cash Patel who was the uh director of the FBI

[3:48:45] and uh he was actually pretty charming and uh so it was surprising although

[3:48:52] some folks afterwards said well you saw the charming side of Cash Patel there's another side too I don't know about that

[3:48:58] side um and just you know it was just a

[3:49:03] fascinating situation so when we got to The next day uh in the CEO summit we

[3:49:09] were lined up in in roads and and Richard Blumenthal was there uh right

[3:49:15] off the bat the senator from Connecticut and um had his remarks we talked about

[3:49:22] Ukraine a little bit uh Kevin Rudd the former prime minister of uh uh Australia

[3:49:28] and the former US ambassador from Australia uh gave his views on China he's a China expert a China scholar

[3:49:37] um Michael Dell from Dell Computing and he was in the row in front of me just by

[3:49:43] so coincidence and the mayor of Rochester Hills Michigan was sitting next to me and he was looking at his

[3:49:49] telephone and he said pokes me in the ribs he said "Jim I think there's three billionaires sitting in front of us here

[3:49:54] Michael Dell of course one of them." uh and uh talked about the USChina relationship

[3:50:00] uh and um how we need to build on this uh domestic semiconductor capability

[3:50:06] that that was critical uh to what we needed to be doing um and uh and then a lot of comments by

[3:50:14] a lot of other uh CEOs as well but I would say that CEO optimism has kind of

[3:50:20] fallen off the cliff for 2025 there was uh a survey done by Jeff

[3:50:25] Soninfeld who runs it from the school of management runs these sessions for both the mayors and the CEOs

[3:50:32] uh and it was you know we're heading in the wrong direction in the opinion the CEOs and um most of them think we're

[3:50:39] heading for a recession but what's happening on a federal level is

[3:50:44] inflationary and um and now Europe is kind of reassessing everything what they

[3:50:49] need to be doing in terms of taking care of themselves mil militarily they've act they've relied on us in the past uh to

[3:50:56] kind of backs stop them and um on and on the comments went

[3:51:02] that were very interesting uh to listen to um so that I mean that's kind of it

[3:51:10] in a nutshell um I've got a lot more notes than that but I didn't want to delay the end of this meeting uh but it

[3:51:17] was a really great experience again and in being involved in in hearing the opinions of some of these CEOs that

[3:51:23] really aligned with the opinions of mayors around the country as well about the concern over the the uncertainty and

[3:51:31] the and the chaos that seems to be emanating at our federal level right now so

[3:51:37] um that's it for me and did that prompt anybody else to think about anything they wanted to talk about

[3:51:45] i'm sorry yeah go ahead but Jackson we talked briefly very briefly on Saturday

[3:51:51] about industrial development bonds and that's where in the olden days uh cities

[3:51:57] would provide tax exempt financing for economic development and then it would be paid off by uh revenues from the new

[3:52:05] building that were new business that was brought in and in 1986 those were made

[3:52:10] not taxexempt anymore but when you mentioned about the economic um cities

[3:52:16] its economic building blocks but then also the Trump tax law one of the things they're talking about is removing tax

[3:52:22] exemption for municipal bonds and if that were to happen we will have to have a a pretty robust conversation about how

[3:52:31] bonding um and IDBs industrial development bonds work um so let's hope

[3:52:37] we don't lose that tax exe yeah that's a good observation that's one of the top issues I think for the National League

[3:52:42] of Cities and the US Conference of Mayors is trying to make sure that we maintain that tax exempt bond status

[3:52:49] all right good uh is there a motion to adjurnn so moved second jackson moves member Pierce second we adjourn the

[3:52:56] meeting of the United City Council Tuesday March 18 2025 any further discussion those in favor of German say

[3:53:02] I i i opposed carried we stand adjourned

[3:53:10] four things inside okay