[0:11] all right good evening everybody how are we doing all right yeah I got to keep the

[0:18] energy going it's going to be a long one uh well on behalf of the rest of the

[0:24] Planning Commission welcome to tonight's City V din Planning Commission meeting

[0:29] it is March 12th 2025 times

[0:34] flying um say it every time but you know your curiosity your participation and

[0:41] certainly your feedback is vital to this process as we navigate change together here in Edina specifically regarding the

[0:49] ways in which we'd like to use our land so we have a number of things on the DACA tonight and kind of go through a

[0:55] quick rundown so you know what to expect but one of the key pieces is is

[1:00] engagement so anything that you tuning in or those who are here in person that

[1:07] have written via email to the city or through the city's engagement website

[1:12] which is ww. better together.org it has made its way to us and we commit to you

[1:19] that we uh consider that as we make recommendations tonight uh so a little bit about the

[1:26] Planning Commission we're nine residents volunteers appointed by the city council

[1:33] serving three-year terms and right now is one of those terms kind of roll over

[1:39] so we have someone new that's joining the Planning Commission meeting tonight and hopefully for the next three plus

[1:45] years uh Paul if you'd like to introduce yourself maybe give people a rundown of

[1:51] like who you are why you're joining and so we can better welcome you sure well welcome uh thank you thank you for

[1:57] welcoming me uh Paul Nelson I am uh I've been a resident of Edina for 45 years I

[2:04] previously served on the uh Transportation Commission from 26 2010 to

[2:09] 2016 uh actively involved in a number of other community organizations including the D morning side Rotary

[2:16] Club uh since 1993 Minnesota Council of churches uh been involved since 2005 and

[2:22] I'm currently also involved in the Salvation Army Advisory Board of the Northern Division which includes all of

[2:28] Minnesota and and the uh North Dakota the state of North Dakota since

[2:34] 2019 I'm currently uh work with Donar construction I've been in the commercial

[2:40] uh construction industry for the last 34 years and I'm just excited to be part of the commission so thank you we're

[2:46] excited to have you and if you got to know everyone else on the commission the city is well represented by some quite

[2:52] talented people with some extraordinary backgrounds and with Paul joining uh we

[2:58] have a commissioner rolling off who's is not here anymore uh and that's commissioner Miranda and just just want

[3:04] to say a couple parting words for him commissioner moranda equal to Paul was

[3:09] very very engaged and uh involved with the city served on the commission for

[3:15] seven years was the vice chair of the Transportation Commission before that was on the climate action plan as a team

[3:22] member a variety of hennipen County um involvements the active Transportation

[3:28] committee the bicycle advisory committee streets MN board member was a part of a

[3:35] couple small area plans uh tail end of the desial comprehensive Plan update

[3:41] involved with parking acceler accessory dwelling unit initiatives and you've

[3:46] probably seen him in the sun Kern or Star Tribune but certainly going to miss his passion and his expertise up here uh

[3:54] and if anyone else had anything they wanted to say about Lou it' be now or we

[3:59] can we can save it till chair member comments too you got something you're

[4:05] smiling hi uh Quincy Smith yeah you know uh just a few good key takeaways uh

[4:12] working with with Lou uh I joined the Planning Commission I think in

[4:18] 2022 as a new commissioner and and Lou was somewhat of a mentor if you will uh

[4:25] introduced me to the uh comprehensive plan and had me kind of go through that

[4:30] um one thing I'll say about lud that I hope we could continue as a commission is he was really focused on the

[4:37] environment um and making sure that everything that we do we should always keep climate climate change

[4:42] environmental stewardship as a key part of what we do and so I hope as a commission uh you know in recognition of

[4:49] that we could continue to make sure that as we look at different plans as we look at different um variances that we keep

[4:57] the whole idea of climate and impact of what we decide as as as a key part of what we do so that's just a few comments

[5:04] from me and and and some of the takeaways I've had working with Lou thanks anything yeah Mr for felt

[5:13] um just add a few of the things that you've talked about about Lou he did volunteer for

[5:20] more than 10 decades with the county and with with us but we all know him obviously as a passionate person and he

[5:28] did not mince words um I thought he thought carefully about the projects that were presented to us their utility

[5:35] and their ability to make a positive contribution to our environment I always thought of him as an excellent

[5:41] debater and a voice that I'm sorry to see go and I do appreciate the time and

[5:47] thought he put into his work here on the Planning Commission and I appreciate his passion and I think you all do

[5:54] too um so cheers to Lou yeah

[6:01] oh yeah you're here thank you Lou we'll miss you and send us a feedback when it

[6:06] when you know you need to uh anyway so moving along uh what to expect for the

[6:13] meeting tonight it's going to be a long one but the agenda will call the meeting to order there'll be a roll call we'll

[6:19] have an approval of tonight's meeting agenda followed by the approval of the prior meeting's minutes from January

[6:26] 29th then we have the community comment period which is your chance to speak about a matter not on tonight's agenda

[6:33] for those who are here in person and then we move to the public hearings of which we have three and during the

[6:40] public hearings that's your chance to speak about a matter on tonight's agenda

[6:45] and you'll have three minutes to do so by testifying at either Podium and I'll give you a rundown of what to expect

[6:51] when we get to that after those conclude it'll be time for chair and member comments staff comments and then what

[6:59] we've all been waiting for adjournment by that time without further Ado we will

[7:05] call the meeting to order then roll call commissioner Nelson

[7:11] commissioner Aly here commissioner Padia here commissioner Smith here commissioner junus here commissioner day

[7:18] here commissioner felt here commissioner Henman here chair Bennett here next we

[7:24] have the approval of tonight's meeting agenda motion to approve second

[7:30] all those in favor say I I I so moved next we have the approval of the prior

[7:35] meeting minutes from January 29th motion to approve the minutes all

[7:42] those in favor oh yeah all those in favor say I I so moved next we have the

[7:47] community comment period so similar to what I said if you have something you'd like to speak about and you're here in

[7:53] person and it's not on tonight's agenda please come forward State your full name address and you got three minutes when

[7:59] the light turns green when it turns red your time's up we'll ask you to wrap it

[8:04] up and then here for Community

[8:11] comment all right I think it's safe to move on so now we have the public hearings as

[8:19] mentioned we have three of them what to expect for a public hearing if you're new and just tuning in similar process

[8:25] for each of these three but when a developer resident or whoever uh submits

[8:32] a formal application to do something with their land that doesn't conine to

[8:37] the constraints of our ordinances uh you have to apply for some

[8:43] sort of deviation from that and that triggers a 60-day rule uh for the city to make a decision uh carrying team do

[8:52] some research put together a staff report they send that to us for our review and they use that to kind of

[9:00] inform this presentation you're about to see now that includes some facts and

[9:05] findings that are relevant to it we will then deliberate back and forth um or

[9:11] just question answers back and forth the staff then we give the applicant a chance to give their own presentation

[9:18] have a similar back and forth and then we open it to the public hearing which is your chance to tune in either

[9:24] remotely and testify or if you're here in person similar to the community comment have 3 minutes to do that when

[9:31] we get through that we close that bring it back to the Planning Commission to deliberate and make a recommendation for

[9:38] approval or denial with that we have our first public hearing that's a variance

[9:44] request for 5205 minihaha Boulevard planner T take it away thank you thank

[9:50] you chair members of the commission so this property is mentioned is located on minihaha Boulevard on the east side of

[9:56] minihaha Creek across the street from Arden Park just south of

[10:02] 52nd note on this graphic that the site is unique with the curve in Min minaha

[10:08] Boulevard so the variance request is a front yard setback the required front yard setback

[10:14] is based on the average of the two adjacent homes this home to the north

[10:20] has about a 80 foot setback and the home to the South is 40

[10:25] feet so it's a 60 foot front set back requirement for this lot and with the

[10:31] road that comes in in this location brings the required setback way back in

[10:36] the on the lot I have a Graphic that shows that a little clearer coming up but that in a sense is the request this

[10:43] evening it's to tear down the existing home and rebuild a new house on the site

[10:48] also note that the homes on either side are relatively new quite large for the

[10:54] site here's a look at the existing property

[11:00] the existing house note the setback is similar um to the home to the North and

[11:07] the applicant is proposing to utilize that same setback with the new house here is the proposed

[11:15] house so all other code requirements are met with the site the sidey setbacks 8

[11:20] feet on the North a little over 8 feet 7 ft on the south that's based on the width of the property which is 60 ft so

[11:28] all other C requirements have been met so when you put the 60ft setback on the

[11:35] site the front setback is basically roughly this red line so you see the site's not buildable without without a

[11:43] required front set back variants here's a look at the proposed

[11:50] home here is the proposed home in relation to the house to the North and

[11:56] the house to the South is you're looking straight straight

[12:01] East here's a look from the south the new home to the South and the proposed

[12:08] new home so the primary issue is the

[12:13] variance criteria that we consider um the three uh main tests for the variants

[12:20] are the property owner proposes to use the property in a reasonable manner that's not permitted by the zoning

[12:26] ordinance the plate of the land owner is due to circumstances that are unique to the property and not created by the

[12:32] landowner and if granted wouldn't alter the essential character of the

[12:37] neighborhood so staff believes that the findings are met here the Practical

[12:42] difficulty is caused by that unique configuration of the lot that curved Street the existing location of the

[12:48] homes to the north that are set quite a quite deep into the lot the circumstances are unique to the property

[12:55] not common to other R1 properties uh this will wasn't created by the the land

[13:01] owner that was um the slot was originally planted with that curve kind of runs with the creek to the West uh

[13:08] that wouldn't alter the essential character of the neighborhood again it's matching the existing setback of the house and the setback to the north um

[13:15] it's the same as the existing structure and it's appropriate size and scale for

[13:20] this neighborhood there are larger homes in this in this District in this area so

[13:26] with that staff is recommending approval subject to the findings and conditions that are outlined in your staff report

[13:32] and I can answer any questions and the applicant is here for a presentation as well thank you Carrie I guess one thing

[13:39] to note too um you know zoning and setbacks have changed over time so what

[13:45] was acceptable previously is no longer acceptable which is kind of what you showed the existing home would not be

[13:53] buildable where it currently stands for our zoning today could you speak to before open to questions to other

[14:00] Commissioners um how frequent this kind of variance requests has been over the last couple years where we're like a

[14:08] unique lot around a curve with different setbacks yeah this this curve is unique

[14:13] I can't think of other um circumstances but that front yard setback where a home

[14:18] is set deep into the lot we do run into that from time to time um kind of the

[14:24] underlying what what the commission has generally done in the past asked is approve those variances as long as it's

[14:32] consistent with the home that was there previously and not encroaching closer to the street great thank you questions

[14:41] Commissioners commissioner elare director Teague on the tree survey

[14:46] assessment there's two bur Oaks that are not protected because of the condition of the tree whose assessments of those

[14:53] trees are those is that the arborist or is that the applicant I believe that's

[14:59] the applicant maybe we can ask him to address that all right but kind of big picture with the trees this is subject

[15:06] to the tree preservation ordinance different section of the code but when a

[15:11] should this be approved when they come in for building permit if they're taking down trees they have to replace them if

[15:17] they're outside of the building pad itself in the new driveway um then

[15:22] that's reviewed and approved by the city Foresters time at the time of a building

[15:27] permit okay so that's not something we need to decide on tonight that's separate okay thank

[15:35] you any other questions all right see then welcome the

[15:41] applicant or team to the docket here and then just if you got a quick

[15:47] presentation or just want to stand for questions leave it up to you I want to say a couple words so good evening my

[15:53] name is f with my daughter Elise and my Builder uh from gr neighborhood hoods uh

[15:59] Scott bu my wife is traveling today and she's actually watching online as well so sah and I bought our first home in

[16:06] Adana in 2005 on long break Trail and we moved to Adana to give the opportunity

[16:11] for our daughters to attend norand Del ad the school to learn French uh our

[16:18] kids went to the Adana high school and I really prepared them well to go to college Elise graduated from University

[16:25] in Denver uh in Psychology and she currently applying for graduate school for like clinical uh psychology Margot

[16:33] was at Sanol and studying for um um Environmental Studies SAR I've been

[16:40] active members of the community I've been Co coaching hockey Sarah was coaching soccer participated in in

[16:46] Scouts uh Girl Scouts school activities we actually hosted tun those um inter

[16:52] turns as well uh after we became Nestor Sarah and I started looking for um a new

[16:57] home that offers walk ability to shopping and restaurants and we wanted to home uh that as space for

[17:05] entertainment um and also support our families as we grow and my daughters are growing as well um our search for homes

[17:12] included proximity to lakes and walking paths and our first home that we know was that we actually own was on Min

[17:19] Parkway in Minneapolis so when we uh saw the house in ardan park I'm in a

[17:25] Boulevard it felt like we came back full circle uh we purchased a property in October

[17:31] 2024 and it's our intent to replace the existing home with a new home where we can live the next 20 plus years the

[17:38] property is located on you know B Boulevard takes a Sharp 90 degree turn

[17:43] around the property and because of the curve we have a front and back uh issue that we need to to take care of so our

[17:51] plan for the new home is to have an open concept design um with a lot of Windows

[17:56] to bring the park into into the home as well well the look is going to be in one and a half story to make it look part of

[18:03] the property as well in the neighborhood the new home is planing the exact same location at the existing home except

[18:09] we're moving away from the house a little bit so this distance between the two house will be a little bit longer

[18:15] and would be right with the current right side neighbors um our goal is to build a

[18:21] house that would fit the lot in the neighborhood uh We've also been proactive in in seing seeking for

[18:27] feedback uh we met with uh Chris AER on December 26 to get our feedback and we

[18:33] compared that into into our plan uh Scott uh met with a at a neighborhood

[18:39] meeting as well in January 26 to get feedback from the community uh and also met separately

[18:46] with both our AIS and neighbors the londons and Engles to provide information about our project and get

[18:52] their feedback and Sarah also met one of our neighbor Carol benett who's also U

[18:58] um a friend of one of our friend as well so we're excited about the next chapter of our life uh we want to thank you for

[19:04] your time today and we're here to answer any questions you may have great thank you appreciate your

[19:11] story and the the thorough process and transparency of it any questions from

[19:17] Commissioners yeah commissioner Pia you mentioned that you met with the

[19:22] neighbors what kind of input did the Neighbors give you and what was their feedback yeah met with the neighbors uh

[19:29] we didn't have a huge turnout uh it was basically uh they knew I think they knew there was some Development coming there

[19:36] uh they had questions about you what the where the setbacks were uh from the house uh I followed up with angles uh

[19:43] with the house to the north and he asked how close the house was to his house I said well currently the existing house

[19:48] is 4 feet away and we're going to be uh about 8 ft away so we proove the the set

[19:54] back there so they they were happy about that uh I did um uh I did send it out to

[20:01] all I sent the elevations you saw in a letter to all neighbors within 300 ft of

[20:06] the property and was that the only feedback that you got yeah it was I didn't get a

[20:12] lot of feedback but we did communicate to everybody uh and did you know follow up with phone calls to the adjacent

[20:17] neighbors thank you any other questions from

[20:26] Commissioners all right thank you appreciate it so this is a public hearing so that is the part of this so

[20:35] we will open it to a public hearing uh we'll put some of the info up on the

[20:40] screen for those who would like to call in can read through it

[20:45] quick I don't really have it anyways we'll wait till it comes up

[20:51] on the screen but while we wait uh for those who are in person that'd like to testify you can come up to either Podium

[20:58] you have three 3 minutes to do so uh State your full name address and when the light turns green

[21:05] go and then when it's red we'll ask you to wrap it up is anyone here in person that would like to

[21:15] testify all right could we get that back on the

[21:21] screen so for those who are tuning in remotely uh please call the following number 312 535 5

[21:30] 8110 enter access code 2861

[21:37] 072 3508 then enter password

[21:43] 5454 and press star three to indicate you're ready to speak so since there's a

[21:50] leg here we'll give it about a minute to catch up and if no one's in the queue

[21:56] we'll close a public hearing we're still working on elevator music so

[22:03] just bear with

[22:15] us oh there it is

[22:40] seeing no one has joined I believe it is safe to proceed I had a welcome a motion to

[22:46] close the public hearing motion to close the public hearing second all those in favor say I

[22:55] public hearing closed take it back to the planning commission to deliberate on this one

[23:00] anyone got anything

[23:07] motion I'm happy to make a motion to approve the variance request you have

[23:12] comments first I was just going to make one Qui comment um yeah it's not the current homeowners issue but it

[23:18] obviously seems like the original plat is was probably done incorrectly uh for this size of a lot um it should have

[23:26] gone the other way north south but obviously they're facing the Mina Creek and that was the the point so I really

[23:32] have no issues with this or improving the neighborhood and it's uh you know the setback about as far as

[23:39] he can go so on my comment any other comments thank you um

[23:47] just quickly we approve these setback variances quite often for residential

[23:52] lots that do not are not standard or not typical so this is an unusual for the

[23:58] Planning Commission to to see and approve so I agree with

[24:04] it thanks suppose we'd welcome a motion down there motion to approve the setback

[24:12] variance second all those in favor say I I I

[24:19] opposed motion carries good luck with your project thank

[24:25] you all right moving on to the next public hearing appreciate the the thorough detail and transparency with

[24:32] the process with the prior applicants that helps things go very smooth all right this next one we have

[24:39] is a conditional use permit site plan and Building height variance for

[24:44] 71 York Avenue South and this is the site of the southill library and future

[24:53] potentially Art Center take it away um thank you chair members of the Planning Commission the

[24:59] request tonight is for an updated conditional use permit a site plan and a building height variance for the county library and art center at 70001 York

[25:07] Avenue the subject site is 7.75 acres and is located at the southeast corner of York and 70th Street West the site is

[25:15] guided as Community activity center and is zoned R1 single dwelling unit district henpen county is proposing to

[25:22] tear down the existing 76,000 ft Regional Library and 38,000 ft service

[25:27] center to construct a new 43,000 foot library and 16,000 SQ foot Art Center on

[25:33] the North half of the site the Adina Art Center would be a tenant in the proposed building the South half of the site

[25:40] would include wetlands and green space with sidewalks and bike paths through the site to connect to the regional bike

[25:45] trail through Adams Hill Park to the South the green space on the south half of the site would include space for

[25:51] support activities um for the art center and for the library as I said the request tonight

[25:57] includes or requires a conditional use permit a site plan and a building height

[26:02] variance publicly owned Civic institutions such as libraries are conditionally permitted uses in the R1

[26:09] zoning district and the city code outlines that a conditional use permit should not be granted unless certain

[26:14] conditions are met and in this case staff believes that all conditions to Grant a conditional use permit have been

[26:19] met the project will not have an adverse impact on government facilities utilities or Services um in this case

[26:26] the total square footage of the project is less than what exists today at the library site the current site is roughly

[26:32] 112,000 ft and the proposed library and art center is roughly 59,000 Square

[26:38] ft the project will not generate additional traffic on the streets serving the property um a traffic study

[26:45] was completed for this project and found that the existing roadways would support the library or I should say continue to

[26:51] support a library at the site um there's not an adverse impact on the public health safety or welfare and the use of

[26:56] the property Remains the Same as a library the proposed project would not enhance the property and fits well on

[27:02] the site the project would not impede normal development on surrounding properties the project conforms to the

[27:09] zoning code with the exception of Building height which we'll get to a little bit in a little bit and the use is consistent with the comprehensive

[27:15] plan public libraries are conditionally permitted use in the R1 zoning district and land uses in the community Activity

[27:22] Center in the comprehensive plan include institutional and recreational uses

[27:28] as stated the proposed project also meets the requirements of the city zoning ordinance with the exception of Building height the proposed building

[27:34] meets all the city's setback requirements and there is a decrease in both building coverage and impervious surface coverage on the lot with the

[27:41] proposed project the site has vehicle access from 70th Street and the existing

[27:46] access off of York Avenue is proposed to be closed with this project the building has pedestrian access from the north

[27:52] south and east sides of the building and trails connect through the site to Adams Hill Park to the South a sidewalk

[27:58] connection is also proposed along the south side of the property um for connectivity the code requires 160

[28:05] parking Spa Start parking stalls for this project and the site plan shows a total of 184 parking spaces of those 184

[28:14] 109 are surface parking stalls that are located on the surface lot along 70th Street and 75 of those parking stalls

[28:21] are located underground a parking study was completed and the existing library

[28:27] and the the existing Art Center were studied for Peak parking demands and based on those findings 184 proposed

[28:34] spots are expected to accommodate those forecasted Peak parking demands for those

[28:39] sites the proposed Landscaping on site is relatively extensive but does not meet the tree replacement ordinance of

[28:46] the city's code the tree replacement ordinance is located outside of the zoning ordinance it's located in chapter

[28:52] 10 so therefore there's not a path to request or receive a variance from the tree ordinance request re ments so the

[28:59] city Forester reviewed the proposed plans and believes that there are some options that can be considered so the

[29:05] tree ordinance is met there's a few options um one of those would be to preserve more trees on site or

[29:10] transplant the trees on site so they don't have to be mitigated they could also pay the escrow or obtain a letter

[29:16] of credit for the valuation of the escrow to meet the requirements of the ordinance um the tree Ordnance also

[29:22] allows for the planting or off-site planting of trees within the boundaries of Edina so staff recommends that as a

[29:29] condition of approval with the project the applicant will work with the city Forester so the tree ordinance is met

[29:34] prior to the issuance of a building permit for the site the proposed building materials um

[29:40] are aluminum and metal panels with large Windows the site is unique in that it's

[29:45] located in the greater South Hill district but is zoned R1 single dwelling unit district the R1 District does not

[29:52] have Building Material requirements or transparency requirements that other zoning districts do in the greater South

[29:58] Southdale area the requested variance tonight is for Building height of the proposed

[30:05] structure the zoning District would allow a structure that is three stories and 40 fet in height and the proposed

[30:11] structure is two stories and 59 fet in height and that 59 ft is measured from average existing grade of the library

[30:17] site today staff believes that the proposed variance

[30:23] um for Building height is Justified the variance is in harmony with the general purpose an intent of the code the intent

[30:31] of the code is not to provide uniformity in Building height in this area um the site is not located within a

[30:37] traditional R1 area surrounded by single family homes all surrounding properties with any DIN are commercial or office

[30:44] uses that allow for taller buildings the closest structure to the structure is

[30:49] the structure to the South which is 52 feet in height which is similar to the proposed height of the building nearby

[30:56] other nearby buildings include the Weston Yorktown Continental apartments and the bower

[31:02] building um the applicant also noted that due to site grading and how the site is situated um the applicant has

[31:09] said that the library will also appear to a height of roughly 26 feet um from

[31:15] the residences to the east that are located in

[31:20] Richfield the proposed variance is consistent with the comprehensive plan the comprehensive plan doesn't regulate

[31:26] Building height but the site is Loc located within the community Activity Center which is the area in Idina that

[31:31] allows for the most height and density there are practical difficulties in complying with the ordinance the

[31:37] variance is reasonable given the location of the subject property and there are other buildings in the area

[31:42] that are taller than the proposed library and the height of the existing library that exists today is 60 ft the

[31:49] circumstances of the subject property are unique and are not created by the landowner and the proposed height

[31:55] variance would not alter the character of the neighborhood there are existing buildings in the area that are taller

[32:01] than the proposed building and like I said the existing structure is around 60 ft so tonight staff's recommendation is

[32:08] that the Planning Commission recommend city council approve the conditional use permit site plan and Building height variance for 701 York Avenue the project

[32:16] meets the conditional use permit standards the proposed project meets the criteria to Grant a variance the height

[32:22] of the structure is consistent with other buildings in the area the existing height of the library is 60 ft and the

[32:28] proposed project will not alter the essential character of the neighborhood staff also recommends the conditions

[32:33] that are outlined in the staff report including the requirement to meet the city's tree ordinance prior to the issuance of a building permit with that

[32:40] I can stand for any questions and I know there's representatives from penipen County and from MSR design that will

[32:47] give a short presentation as well thank you Emily commissioner

[32:54] hman with the tree ordinance it's not specified where the trees need to be

[33:00] planted is that correct for the where the specific locations um just you were

[33:06] saying that you could plant the required trees off site elsewhere in a Dina it would be on hennipin County owned land

[33:13] so he would work or henen County would work with our Forester on those locations or specific locations that

[33:19] would be approved by him okay thank

[33:24] you L of questions for Emily

[33:30] M Smith uh thank you for the presentation

[33:37] um this is a very exciting location and project um just a couple

[33:44] questions uh I believe this site is R1 zoning and I think you mentioned

[33:52] something to do with the fenestration is outside of R1 zoning could you talk a little bit more about that other um

[33:59] zoning districts in the Southdale District require um not fenestration but

[34:04] require transp there's transparency requirements so the R1 zoning District does not have those

[34:10] requirements okay um I know in the in the packet I

[34:17] think the applicant had to interpret what 75% meant in general you know with

[34:24] the Southdale guidelines right we always want 7 75% fenestration right and it could be

[34:31] interpreted as potentially a length of 75% of the side the facade of

[34:38] the building or an area how does the city think about fenestration in

[34:43] general because it would seem then that the language is a little bit vague and open to interpretation how would you

[34:49] narrow that down or how does this how does the city think about uh penetration on a facade in this project that wasn't

[34:57] consider because it's not a requirement but Carrie do you want to talk on other instances yeah certainly so yeah again

[35:03] this is a unique situation with the zoning here being R1 yet still located in the

[35:10] greater Southdale District adjacent commercial properties would be required Building Material requirement um you

[35:17] know brick and stone especially on that first level and then the other is the transparency requirement 75% of the

[35:24] building we want to be able to see through and and the way we have calculated that is really just taking

[35:31] the length of the building at I level and if that area um has Windows um so

[35:39] taking the width total width in the area that's transparent into the building

[35:44] kind of at that eye level first level it is one thing that we have

[35:49] talked about in the past cleaning that language up when we do our zoning um our

[35:55] Amendment to the zoning ordinance it's one second SE that we'll want to clear up for the commercial zoning

[36:01] districts Carri are you saying even though it's not required they're following the design

[36:07] guidelines of um and tree uh they're following the design guidelines of other

[36:14] commercial properties in the Southdale District but we're holding them to the residential standard of trees yeah that

[36:20] that's the unique thing here they don't have to follow those commercial guidelines because of the residential um

[36:28] zoning on the site the flip side of that is because it zoned R1 they are subject

[36:34] to the tree preservation ordinance if we were establishing or requiring the commercial requirements for landscaping

[36:41] they would well exceed our commercial standards for that's really based on you need to plant one overstory tree per

[36:49] every 40 feet of perimeter around the site and they've they've far exceeded that with the number of trees that are

[36:55] planting and there's a variety of sizes that go along with that as well so it's a unique situation here that we're

[37:01] applying residential standards for trees and residential standards for the

[37:09] uh for the building materials or we're not applying commercial standards for building

[37:19] materials is isn't the whole visibility of the glass is in that part of the Southdale district for not in this

[37:26] zoning District not in this one right on this site it's those standards don't

[37:33] apply to property that's zoned R1 right but they are more or less complying with

[37:38] them with the ex yes with the exception of the part of the wall that faces 70th

[37:45] Street but on the York side yes and really the the site that faces

[37:51] the South to the pond thank you thank you director Teague

[37:59] um just a few more questions here

[38:04] uh so it also seems to that the tree just a quick question what's a fair

[38:12] a fair condition tree and I you may not know this right this might be a Forester question right um so I guess we could

[38:19] will we ever get like the Forester to share with us any insight on his

[38:24] decisioning on if this site would meet the tree ordinance requirement or not is

[38:30] that ever going to be a thing that we will get to review or even discuss or is

[38:36] that outside of our prview at this time I mean he reviewed the proposed project and provided comments to staff so he's

[38:43] he's reviewed this project and is working with the applicant um and he will continue to work with the applicant are you asking for specifics on this

[38:49] project or just in general are you interested in speaking with the Forester yeah cuz typically I think we would in

[38:56] the past I think weigh in to some degree on the trees and the preservation of trees but this seems a little bit

[39:03] different where the Forester would work directly with staff and the applicant to make that decision so that's that may be

[39:09] something that's outside of what we would look at yeah the Zone the tree preservation ordinance is out located

[39:14] outside of the zoning ordinance so it's not overseen by the Planning Commission

[39:20] gotcha um one more question for now uh certainly love the Green Space there uh

[39:29] that's being proposed um in terms of management how does the management work uh with this

[39:37] site between the city between hpin County who's managing that green space

[39:43] I'm just curious about that um I'll let the applicant speak to that but I know they are working with the parks department to work through those um

[39:49] decisions and who's managing what portions of the property gotcha so that's an ongoing

[39:55] discussion I believe okay all right that's it for now thank

[40:01] you m car just a quick one thanks for the presentation do you I apologize if

[40:07] it was in there but do you know when the current library was built 71 okay so that's and I believe the

[40:15] service center was 73 50 some years ago we've had a 60 foot

[40:20] building in that spot okay thank you

[40:28] any other questions for staff I guess I just have one final one

[40:35] because it seems to be at the root of maybe some of our feedback during the sketch

[40:41] plan review process too just about how you know this area is guided in the

[40:46] comprehensive plan for a community Activity Center something far more robust than what we're seeing yet it's

[40:52] zoned R1 so in it's seems like some of the

[40:58] feedback as well as some like MC Johnson's review and others you know

[41:03] like we want to hold this site because it's in the Grand View District to some of those principles right but you're

[41:10] saying it doesn't necessarily need to be bound to that because it's R1 I guess I'm just having an issue with that I

[41:18] guess contradiction so I just want to know if staff could speak to that a little bit sure I can um so the greater

[41:25] Southdale um design experience guidelines was created with the

[41:30] intention of it being a tool as the city considers really resoning and

[41:35] comprehensive plan changes within the district that would be the tool to help justify uh that type of

[41:42] development we did not take it the step further and put specific requirements

[41:49] into the city code we did some like the transparency requirement um in the commercial districts and building

[41:55] materials things like that so we have moved some of those standards into the zoning but that was the intent of the uh

[42:03] of those design experience guidelines some of the things um within those

[42:08] guidelines they have Incorporated we talk about little pocket Parks parks within the greater Southdale

[42:15] District we're getting a pretty large green space and um you

[42:21] know very similar to park space that's available for residents to walk around

[42:27] the pond go through uh with the bike connection with the trail to the to the

[42:33] South so and they've also pulled the building up closer to the street on on the York side granted there is the

[42:40] surface parking lot in front that we're trying to to get away from but some of those um principles within the

[42:47] experienced guidelines they have followed yeah I guess why I ask is just

[42:53] historically it seems like anything that's redeveloped you know like we have that as a tool and we have a review

[43:00] process that's in place you know to hold any Redevelopment even if if it's not

[43:06] rezoning or comprehensive plan Amendment you know it's like it is used if there's

[43:11] physical changes if there's a change to property and with there being that kind

[43:17] of let's just say disparity between the comprehensive plan and the zoning like it it just seems awkward and

[43:25] maybe not well advised to not try to apply that to this

[43:31] property since it's in that zone um so I mean that's just kind of what most of

[43:36] our feedback was kind of grounded in a year and a half ago November of 23 so

[43:42] just trying to understand some of the context behind that and I see what you're saying but maybe I I disagree a

[43:49] little bit so I don't know if other Commissioners had questions around that

[43:55] or we can talk about it later okay thank you and we will welcome the

[44:02] applicant team to the podium just introduce yourselves give us a rundown of what we're seeing what's

[44:09] changed um and why we should support

[44:19] this all right hello again good evening chair and Commissioners my name is LZ

[44:26] dero I am the project manager in the design and construction division in hennipen County I'm joined here with uh

[44:33] good evening Commissioners uh glad to be here tonight I'm Matthew krod I'm a principal architect with MSR

[44:41] design and uh we're the two presenting but of course we have uh quite a few of

[44:46] us um from hanip County and also um MSR design as well I'm going to start us off

[44:53] with uh sharing the henpen county library Mission it is to inspire ire facilitate and celebrate lifelong

[45:00] learning one of the ways for us to achieve this mission is by creating inviting inclusive accessible and safe

[45:06] public spaces you'll start to see that theme uh throughout this

[45:12] presentation as noted the facility was built in 1971 so for decades have been serving

[45:19] various different residents from Bloomington Richfield Minneapolis and

[45:24] Edina this project us since 2015 is has been in some type of process um

[45:32] including uh moving out the county um service center and the

[45:37] courts and what you can see here is the current path that we're on uh was started in um early

[45:44] 2023 so throughout those years we've been been connecting through our community Through surveys outreaches and

[45:51] various different Community engagements ones of notes for the last two uh that

[45:57] both had just under 100 attendees one was at the end of 2023 and

[46:03] one was at the end of 2024 we also hosted an open house last month which

[46:08] actually had quite a few of our adjacent um neighbors just off

[46:13] exes this brings us to today as you can see here we've been in a Long Hall of design we're in the refinement

[46:21] periods you may have noticed that the entire facility is currently closed now

[46:26] uh so it may be be a little quiet on the outside but I can ensure that there's bustle on the inside uh we are uh at the

[46:33] size of this facility um being very intentive in the salvaging and the repurposing of uh various different

[46:39] Furniture fixtures materials and then also uh being careful in the deconstruction process before we hand

[46:45] that over to our construction manager at risk to do the Demolition and then head into construction that will then bring

[46:51] us to uh the completion move in and then the opening at late 2027

[47:00] all right so getting into that feedback from the community engagements and the open house some key uh common themes are

[47:09] accessibility bikable Green Space natural light uh comfortable seating and

[47:15] technology and the list goes on we use this to provide effective

[47:20] Services through our design uh some features of course not limited to is Street access uh Street level access

[47:28] which we'll touch on on uh direct sidewalks and trails better utilization of space more meeting rooms better

[47:35] access to technology extended time for holds pickups of course access to our

[47:41] attendant um the diner art center and then partnering with the Three Rivers Park District we are embracing an

[47:48] opportunity to improve accessibility strengthen our programming and Partnerships provide Green Space and

[47:54] showcase true sustainable design all right I'm going to we're going to

[48:00] zoom out quickly and just notice how the site design contributes to filling in

[48:06] the Gap to promote connections to the Civic infrastructures and green spaces in both Edina and Richfield I also want

[48:13] to acknowledge that there's also partnership between the city of Edina and the Three Rivers districts to make

[48:18] that final connection that multimodal that will promote multiple ways of transportation not only to our site but

[48:25] those surroundings so I'm going to hand it over to Matthew now with MSR design to share more

[48:30] details on the design and how transformational this project can be for our

[48:35] community second you hunch over when I

[48:42] have excellent that works again thank you for the time this

[48:48] evening um there's a tremendous amount of people standing behind us that have worked to get to this point uh and have

[48:54] a conversation and I'm going to do my best to represent uh the county uh the people

[49:00] that we've engaged and the design team that's uh brought forward what you're going to see here and hopefully it'll

[49:06] shed a little bit more light on uh some of the conversation that staff was presenting earlier um and some of the

[49:12] strategies and the reasons why we we are where we are uh but again uh looking at

[49:17] the context what we're what we're really driving towards is a a series of connectivity uh making sure that every

[49:22] step of the way this is a very accessible uh Library Art Center along

[49:28] with providing uh amenity for the community so uh when we talk and look at the uh Graphics here uh uh it's really

[49:35] based on providing uh transparency accessibility multi modal uh and

[49:41] ensuring that you can get to the front door very easily you know where you're going and way finding is built in uh on

[49:47] top of all the other things so uh when we look at uh what we're really strategizing here is this site was a uh

[49:53] Quarry it was a gravel pit um uh many people uh that we've engaged with have talked about their youth uh engaging in

[50:01] the landscape but it has been uh really engineered over time um our current

[50:07] condition is uh basically impervious um and uh has remained there

[50:12] for 60 years right um the new proposal really tries to tuck the building to the

[50:18] Northwest uh have the scale at the York side uh and then reduced scale towards

[50:25] the neighborhoods to the east East so we're pushing uh almost a caty corner

[50:30] opposite of the existing structure we also want to keep that scale and edge condition right at the corner there of

[50:36] 70th in York uh the rest of the site is developed mainly as Green Space so we're really flipping it it's on its head and

[50:43] managing water um thinking about the future in terms of uh climate change and

[50:48] the things that we're seeing um where most of it's run off now and then we're managing it you'll see see some images

[50:54] here uh shortly that talk about how we're dealing with that so that transformation into uh absorptive

[51:01] surfaces and experiences along with the connections that Liz talked about earlier uh to the

[51:08] community um uh performative driven design on top of just the site um the

[51:14] orientation and sighting is really about driving full sustainability so we have

[51:21] uh nearly daylit uh 100% dayit autonomy um driving towards allowing daylight as

[51:29] in Li of electrified light and then uh the environmental uh reaction of shading

[51:36] in the summer uh allowing solar gains in the winter um so that it's a high efficiency uh system so we have native

[51:44] landscape we're absorbing rainfall managed on the site daylight spaces

[51:49] we're also in building in healthy materials uh removing toxins from the environment and then uh low embodied

[51:57] carbon in the materials and the selection of those so there's uh uh some

[52:02] CLT which is Crossland many Timber to uh carbon sequester as part of the structure uh solar array on the roof as

[52:10] well as some mitigation of uh runoff through uh green roof and plantings and

[52:15] then a geal geothermal heat pumps as well um what what are we trying to do in

[52:22] terms of restoration we're really trying to do a reparative landscape so uh these images you're seeing are meant to

[52:29] portray how a Minnesota Landscape would have worked um prior to all the engineering and things that have

[52:35] happened to it um so uh we're have these different biomes and ecosystems uh all

[52:41] the way from uh Marsh type areas to wet Prairie onto uh Oak Savannah and

[52:46] openings so our our planting strategies are long-term and meant to be endure

[52:51] time and and thrive in this environment as well as looking at things like the uh

[52:57] uh uh climate action plans that indicate what will be resilient in the future so

[53:02] we're taking in account long term as you can imagine the library that's here has

[53:08] been here 60 years we plan for the same longevity and all the actions that we put in place in the planning and design

[53:15] so you know there's all these uh you'll see these kind of thumbnails at the bottom uh from how the plantings operate

[53:22] and how they Inspire and also uh become educational opportunities for the public as they engage in

[53:28] them uh what does that look like there's a whole series of these and how they work um they will fill in over time uh

[53:36] we've got a strategy in planting that will allow it to kind of be robust but kind of make its way into a manageable

[53:43] and uh like I said thriving uh

[53:48] ecosystem uh stormw management uh this give you a good glimpse of what we're planning so the South part of the site

[53:55] which um maintains our ability to have daylight long term long into the future

[54:01] uh as I mentioned earlier allowing daylight and solar gains when we want them rejecting them when we don't want

[54:06] them uh but it also allows us to use the southern portion of the site as a natural drainage area um there's a a

[54:13] planned uh uh a system of trails that kind of engage in it but it really is a working system uh so if you look at this

[54:21] the typical water levels they'll be uh to the southwest of the site there'll be a some standing water for a short for

[54:28] most the year almost all the year um when we get to a 2-year or 24-hour storm

[54:33] there'll be at 2.85 in increase in that so it'll start to fill in um and then uh

[54:40] for larger 10-year uh 4.26 you'll see how it's kind of fills in um as we get

[54:47] to a 25-year storm uh it'll hold water for about 4 days and slowly uh dissipate

[54:54] it into the system so it doesn't overwhelm all at once uh you don't get at all in one rainstorm and then

[55:00] overwhelm the infrastructure so it's managing that system and then the plantings around it are really meant to

[55:06] help mitigate it as well and thrive in that environment uh at 100 years then we have a controlled delay outflow of the

[55:13] 100 year and it helps reduce the uh Demand on the municipal storm

[55:19] system um and so you know this is a image that shows uh what we intend in

[55:24] terms of this biodiversity and integration of a a reparative landscape

[55:30] that uh is resilient and works with the environment um but also gives opportunities for learning education and

[55:37] uh integration of those Trail systems that are accessible to the uh Library so

[55:42] um looking at it the site plan in a little bit more detail um we as was mentioned earlier our car entry location

[55:49] is the existing location on 70th Street near Xerxes uh so it's the same location

[55:56] that you would normally enter we're closing the entry that's on York Street um there's a drop off area at the front

[56:03] door on the north um there's surface parking that was mentioned and this has some permeable uh nature to it as well

[56:10] as plantings around it uh the thing to note about this parking system is when

[56:15] you're on the east side you're looking over parking um so it's re depressed

[56:21] into the landscape and you're looking over it um and if you there some images later that if you're looking at it from

[56:27] the West uh the the landscape funnels to the door and it it really obscures it so

[56:33] you're not you're never looking at cars parked in a lot you're either looking over it or through the landscape towards

[56:39] the front door and you'll see that in some of the images we've really worked hard to kind of integrate it into the

[56:45] landscape and then uh prioritize uh walking paths bike paths and uh the

[56:52] total accessibility of the site uh as was mentioned the part of that strategy is to get a a good proportion of it

[56:58] underground parking so we use the entire for footprint for underground parking to mitigate the amount that would be above

[57:04] ground uh we have the solar and green roof um we have a occupiable uh Terrace

[57:11] on the south side it's part of the uh public spaces um and then also the trail

[57:17] head which connects to the 9M Creek as a partner so very accessible in terms of

[57:23] how you can arrive you can choose a bus bicycle walking um as well as building

[57:29] into the systems uh there's outdoor plazas in program areas uh specifically

[57:34] to the South that tie into those connections and that enables the library to do outdoor programming as well so

[57:40] indoor programming for uh children's events or whatever might be going on book reading or something like that can

[57:46] happen on the southern plazas uh and then uh that landscape is really tied in

[57:52] um what was mentioned earlier in that how we're connecting we've connected it all all four points uh uh all four

[57:58] corners and then the mid Block locations east to west too so if you came from

[58:04] Richfield you have three points along the block that you can access the site very easily and then as you'll see here

[58:10] in a minute they're all Ada so it's very accessible in terms of getting to the front door multiple front doors that we

[58:16] have that'll also Express uh which is shown in this uh diagram so we have the mid block joint

[58:22] uh connections uh that allow ease of access and then all of them are Ada

[58:28] accessible that get you to a front door uh within the facility we have a southern entry um in a Northern entry

[58:35] and that uh northwest corner is um highlighted as a key uh Point uh coming

[58:42] to the front door in the North and then uh you can uh make your way from multiple uh approaches from the south to

[58:48] the southern front door um again we've worked with a a bus system to uh

[58:54] understand where uh bus stops would be and make those accessible uh and direct to uh some of the challenges the Divi

[59:00] dividing on the uh York uh a so that uh the buses really need to stop in their

[59:06] current locations and we've discussed where alternates could be as well um again mentioning the this is a

[59:14] diagram that shows you how the main entry uh for Drive uh comes if you're coming from vehicle that's a very

[59:21] intuitive uh Direction both into the G parking garage below and uh uh area

[59:26] above which has the drop offs uh or 182 parking stalls uh a little over that

[59:32] would be required with the reductions uh and split up in the manner that we uh described as 108 surface and 74

[59:39] underground if you look at the library itself and you'll see in this in some of the imagery um almost the entirety of

[59:47] the first floor is transparent so uh if you look at the entry at the top uh you

[59:53] move to the West which is the York side uh that's uh nearly all 100% glass on

[59:59] the first floor the west side is 100% Glass south side is 100% glass and then

[1:00:04] a portion as it starts to tuck into the hill is transparent on the east side too so uh what you're seeing um on the East

[1:00:12] is tucked into the hill and we've managed the grade to make it minimize the impact on the East which would

[1:00:18] reduce the feel and scale of the library on the East to around 27 ft to the roof

[1:00:24] and then um uh as you can see the where I said you look over the parking that's tucked down into the landscape where the

[1:00:31] book drop happens and uh staff spaces are on that side there's clear story above letting daylight in and visual uh

[1:00:40] Vision into the building so if you you were on 70th Street you would look in

[1:00:46] through the clear story about ey level from the sidewalk and you'd see the wood

[1:00:52] uh structure inside the warm wood structure inside as the ceilings so we've really kind of nestled it in and

[1:00:58] and paid attention to the perspective as you go around you'd enter from the North or the the South into a very open space

[1:01:06] um there's a main Atrium in the center um it's all open Library very accessible um and then there's some ways to

[1:01:12] navigate up into that Atrium and onto the roof Terrace on the second floor which has the uh the dino Arts

[1:01:19] Center uh here's a view as you would look into uh coming in from the north you would see straight through through

[1:01:26] to the south at the park again that's that 100% transparency on the south um above is the roof uh Terrace and uh Ed

[1:01:34] Art Center inside of that so very open and dayit this is the children's uh space to

[1:01:41] the southeast looking out into the park and you can see or the open space Green

[1:01:47] Space um the the grade would slope up to the left um and that goes up to the

[1:01:52] second floor so it's nestled in um on that side it corrects a lot of what's

[1:02:00] existing on site where the heavy grade change on the East uh drops off very

[1:02:06] quickly and you can't navigate it uh so you have to circulate around the entire Block in order to get to uh the library

[1:02:13] uh the second floor uh just as an overview there's uh both uh Edina Arts Center uh space as well as meeting room

[1:02:21] space uh for the library and a reading balcony all in this kind of central

[1:02:26] public core as well as a planted Terrace that looks over the South um all the water management comes off the roof uh

[1:02:33] through the Terrace and as well um into the site again trying to slow down and uh respond to the environmental change

[1:02:39] that's happening uh there's a view looking out U over that Terrace uh from the inside

[1:02:46] that seating uh grouping and then looking back down towards that North entry that off to the right is where you

[1:02:53] would uh the initial image showed again uh we're we have a a clear story

[1:03:00] uh in this image you see the clear story off to the right that is meant to bring North daylight into the library and the

[1:03:07] art studios and so that's the bit that kind of goes over uh height uh there in

[1:03:13] the variance piece um and it's really a performative piece which allows if you've ever been to an art center you

[1:03:18] know that North daylight is the best for what things you're doing and so it's really developed both get it into the

[1:03:25] main library again minimize the electrification of light but also enhance the overall quality of the

[1:03:31] studios and uh spaces there in the uh overall facility uh here's an image looking this

[1:03:38] would be looking South um you'd see some taller buildings there but uh really focus here is the me as the amenity as

[1:03:45] this kind of community uh Terrace um this is uh again this is a a

[1:03:51] view from the north west looking uh Southeast uh and this is what I

[1:03:58] mentioned there's a landscape um and everything pointing to the front door parking is behind the landscape to the

[1:04:04] left uh there's all the transparency that you see at that corner uh moving uh

[1:04:10] to the West Side fully transparent and that would wrap around to the um souths

[1:04:15] side again you get the intent of the landscape and the plantings that we'd be

[1:04:20] intending to put in um this is looking uh coming off of 70th towards the main front door on the

[1:04:28] south um and then parking in the drop off to the left you see the clear story

[1:04:34] um on the upper level that would let daylight in the upper of the roof that's the kind of impact of the height that

[1:04:40] we're talking about um and then at the first level the clear story windows that look in uh to the staff

[1:04:48] space this is uh coming from uh Richfield side on Xerxes uh this is the

[1:04:54] children's outdoor plot uh there's a a hillside that goes up to the art center ks in that um and it's uh

[1:05:02] outdoor programming space basically and you can see the depth of space here that is more accessible than the current

[1:05:09] condition um as outdoor space uh it's a real reversal of the uh impenetrable

[1:05:15] Hill that's in currently in that location and the building Nestles into it as opposed to stands uh high from it

[1:05:22] so the intent is there and then uh we're hoping that it becomes the sledding hill

[1:05:28] in ad uh paying attention to the full gamut

[1:05:33] of Seasons uh as part of this kind of uh outdoor indoor uh spaces this is the

[1:05:39] South Plaza the uh roughly where the bike trail the trail head would come

[1:05:45] through just off to the right is the children's space um outdoor space and inside is the children's space and then

[1:05:51] you see the Terrace balcony above um this is the South entry coming off

[1:05:57] the uh bike path um uh be just behind you would be the water uh management uh

[1:06:05] and Landscape um and then just off left the trail head would connect to uh the

[1:06:11] northwest corner again uh Terrace on top and then uh that transparency at the bottom uh

[1:06:18] seeing directly into the full uh capacity of the library on the first level

[1:06:25] this shows some different uh times of the day um and how that transparency

[1:06:32] works as well as the engagement is possible on the second

[1:06:37] level so as a as a refresher here you saw some of these slides uh but uh we've

[1:06:44] kind of we've paid attention to the existing structure and its height uh the surrounding structures and then worked

[1:06:51] uh to minimize its impact on the East uh through the way works on site um and uh

[1:06:58] respecting the uh scale of the Richfield residential neighborhood um through the

[1:07:04] way uh We've sighted it towards the north west and uh nestling it into the

[1:07:10] landscape and changing the grades around it again uh just to give a little more

[1:07:17] context to this overlay diagram the dashed uh drawing on the lower portion

[1:07:23] is an overlay of the ex existing structure and then the blue line is really the new structure the piece that

[1:07:32] pops up is that clear story it's a it's a smaller uh uh sloping surface uh that

[1:07:41] uh reaches up to that point um and again uh reading balcony

[1:07:46] from behind that's where that uh slope goes up to the just screen right is

[1:07:52] that's the highest point whereas the lowest point just above the uh people

[1:07:58] here is uh where the um existing condition is so a little bit about materiality um

[1:08:07] we've worked with uh again nestling this in trying to make a a second floor uh

[1:08:15] the material the second floor is uh aluminum panel um and it has some uh

[1:08:21] fins on it that are meant to uh tune to the environment so each facade it uh

[1:08:30] Shades the windows that are in it uh and they're uh spaced in a way that reduces

[1:08:36] glare and enhances the interior daylight um as well as um keep scale to

[1:08:43] it so uh mainly the first floor is uh almost a basically transparent with the

[1:08:51] exception of the area that is the um staff area where you have the upper level of uh glazing and then uh the

[1:08:59] second floor has Windows as well as uh the the metal surfacing um this is the

[1:09:07] West facade it has similar strategy to it with Windows engaged into the metal

[1:09:13] panels and then the south facing Terrace which is almost uh um basically 100%

[1:09:20] glazing behind the canopy um as that canopy shuts comes over we have aluminum

[1:09:25] panels and we have some perforated metal that allows daylight to be shaded but also uh reflects light into the

[1:09:32] building as we get to the South um it's predominantly uh glass on the south with

[1:09:38] the canopy shading it so both second floor and first floor are uh full uh

[1:09:44] floor to seiling Glass um with a mitigation of the Solar Sun through our uh canopy and over hangs again same

[1:09:54] materials on the upper level um west or east facade again a

[1:09:59] predominantly smaller facade um because of the way we managed a landscape and uh

[1:10:06] same materials all the way around so you can kind of see it's a

[1:10:11] it's a very limited pallet um on the um first floor we do have some uh textured

[1:10:18] concrete um but the predominant piece is really the glass and then the second

[1:10:24] floor is the metal panels with the fins uh it's a muted palette it's a kind

[1:10:29] of a champagne color um with shade and Shadow really activating it is the

[1:10:35] intent so uh you get a sense of what that's like from the far south where we've made that connecting uh path which

[1:10:42] would connect East to east to west on the very Southern portion and then Connect into the main

[1:10:49] Trails that's my overview um I'd open it up now for questions and anything we can

[1:10:57] clarify thank you very much for the presentation uh commissioner

[1:11:04] Padia thanks very much for your presentation um I'm not sure Scott if you had

[1:11:11] anything to do with previous building of previous libraries but I'm going to start with kind of my orientation

[1:11:18] between homes that I lived in ad I lived in Minneapolis and I lived near the Central Library

[1:11:25] um so my first question is um that has a green roof and it sounds like you

[1:11:32] mentioned um that there will be solar on the roof and I understand all your water

[1:11:38] management um and Landscaping on the ground um is the experience with the

[1:11:46] green roof at the Central Library not um been favorable is there a reason that

[1:11:52] you chose not to do a similar type of thing as far as green roof everywhere

[1:11:57] green roof on this in this building yeah there there are portions that we have green roof on the uh on this proposed

[1:12:06] structure um we've uh managed between both we think that there's an importance

[1:12:12] between uh solar uh energy generation on site and our ability to manage the water

[1:12:19] off flow we've done such a good job at managing water on site that green roof

[1:12:26] doesn't really create a net positive uh meaning it's it would be extra uh but we

[1:12:32] do we are committed to it as a uh a feature in this um and we have taken

[1:12:37] into account with henan County their experience with it um and uh how to manage it so that's all been counted for

[1:12:44] of it okay and I'm curious um the current library is 76,000 Square ft and

[1:12:50] this the new one will be about 43,000 um are you losing books or just

[1:12:56] using space um yeah more wisely I'm interested it

[1:13:02] sounds like it's it's a reduction in I I can say that um Library Services 60

[1:13:09] years difference Library services are tremendously different right and uh you

[1:13:15] you have different uh approaches to collection where digital is part of it but also efficiency and how libraries

[1:13:21] are planned and the services you can provide in this amount of space B that it also had the government center in it

[1:13:27] so there's uh one item of that is a service center so each level has that

[1:13:33] includ 71,000 includes I'm sorry the the service desk so we have multiple levels

[1:13:39] which at that time of design had different service desks well now we're

[1:13:44] we're condensing so there's a lot more efficiency in our our overall design um

[1:13:50] and we're really emphasizing more the importance of some of the meeting rooms and so taking a look at how can we

[1:13:56] really be smart with that okay um and a tenant you mentioned

[1:14:02] will be the art center does that represent uh a revenue opportunity for the

[1:14:09] county so we're in the um conversations in the lease right now and we do have

[1:14:15] that as part of the agreement in terms of uh the accommodation for reimbursement and then also future rent

[1:14:22] so yes well is there not rent initially or that's part of the plan it

[1:14:28] is part of the plan yes um there's a lot of work being done

[1:14:34] currently in the Adams Hill Park does that have anything to do with this this this project we've been sensitive to

[1:14:41] that there is a a gap in the connection for the trail there and so we've done done due diligence to make sure that

[1:14:47] we're positioned by any connections to it or where we bump up against it that it's ready and it can be uh tied into um

[1:14:55] and we know there's conversations about what that looks like and what the potential of it might be so we've been

[1:15:00] very sensitive to being able to connect to it because we think it's an important piece of the overall connectiv not only

[1:15:06] to the site but the region and how people will come and

[1:15:12] go um could you explain please and this is a little bit getting into the weeds

[1:15:17] you mentioned um short-term bike parking and long-term bike parking what are the

[1:15:22] differences um yeah so uh with anything you know there's uh we don't know how

[1:15:28] this is going to operate but you you can imagine with it being on a trail head and being a facility like a library that

[1:15:36] um we we need a good amount of bike parking at the front door so it's very convenient um which is what we're

[1:15:43] considering on the south we also have it on the north um but that uh you know in

[1:15:48] essence would be shortterm we also have some Park uh bike parking that we're uh

[1:15:53] we're paying attention to both public public and staff uh and encouraging bike use so there are uh long-term bike

[1:16:00] parking in the basement as well uh making sure that uh we we're trying to cover as much as we can um so is the

[1:16:08] difference only the location of where the bike racks are that's the only difference between shortterm and longterm yeah I think in in in this

[1:16:16] essence you know uh it's going to be front door is pretty short term um

[1:16:21] people are going to ride up and park and uh come on inside because it's so

[1:16:26] transparent um do you plan on having any EV stations there is EV stations planned

[1:16:32] and uh expansion as well so um in the parking garage there is EV yeah and the

[1:16:39] surface and surface yeah outside and inside um and for all the transparency

[1:16:45] and everything is there any issue with the light destroying the books or damaging the books

[1:16:51] um that's a mostly concern when they're special collections uh a lot of uh

[1:16:58] current circulation is popular materials and new materials which wear out before

[1:17:03] light can actually damage them but uh we do have uh if you look at the South this

[1:17:09] light is not direct light um and direct light is the most intensive for

[1:17:14] destroying materials so uh refracted light that's coming in and our uh

[1:17:20] process for uh working on the facade so we also have frit on some of the glass

[1:17:25] so that uh helps mitigate glare and reflect light and as well uh especially

[1:17:30] on the second floor anything coming in has been bounced quite a few times and what Matt didn't share is that we're

[1:17:36] offsetting the shelves and keeping them perpendicular as well the the actual

[1:17:42] orientation great last question um also um from my experience living in

[1:17:50] Minneapolis I um learned a very valuable lesson about about uh the role that

[1:17:57] libraries play and it is far more than lending books uh in terms of what it

[1:18:02] does for the community um and it represents warmth and home and

[1:18:09] comfort for uh transient population um and I'm wondering how you plan on

[1:18:17] dealing with that this probably a question for you

[1:18:22] Liz well yeah please here's

[1:18:29] Scott chair Commissioners I'm Scott dester Library director for henpen County library and that's a fantastic

[1:18:36] question and it's one that doesn't just apply to the Southdale Library it applies to all of our libraries and the

[1:18:41] answer to that is we provide as you said warm welcoming spaces uh and within

[1:18:47] those spaces we welcome any individuals that come into those spaces and we work with them based on what their needs are

[1:18:53] are their needs to have a comfortable space are there needs to connect with the collection are there needs to

[1:18:59] connect with the staff buers so they can get resources outside of the library as well too so this Southdale library with

[1:19:05] the space that it will have with the meeting rooms that will it will have with the comfortable seating that will it will have with the outdoor space that

[1:19:11] we will have we provide the same services for individuals who are unhoused as also individuals who are

[1:19:17] housed and at a different stage in their life as well too thank you you're welcome

[1:19:29] yeah I'm done thank you um you went through it briefly but could

[1:19:36] you tell me a little bit more about the way finding about how people can use different modes of transportation to

[1:19:41] come here um I noticed the bike racks saw in a couple of different places like

[1:19:47] if you drive in if you ride your bike in from the south with your child and uh

[1:19:54] see yeah well one of those little things on the back yeah the little trailer um

[1:20:00] you know and where do you park that and how do you get in if you can park it on the South Side have lunch and then walk in or if you do it from the North side

[1:20:07] or if you get off the bus how do you come in and also kind of like how do you get to the kill and all the ways that

[1:20:13] people are going to go in and out and um yeah the um I'll go back to the plan

[1:20:22] here a little bit um and walk through it so

[1:20:28] um what we've what we've tried to do is uh eliminate the grade change from the

[1:20:35] uh east side it's very abrupt and um so if you look at all these U points of uh

[1:20:42] entry especially along the Richfield side and then the north east and north

[1:20:49] um our South Northwest and southwest corners um you can literally um that's

[1:20:55] all navigable grade that's Ada accessible so we've at a at a baseline

[1:21:02] we've provided that as a amenity and ease of access so um if you're if you're

[1:21:08] pulling a trailer it's not a heavy lift you know so you can uh come off of the

[1:21:14] uh the trail or one of the sidewalks or even the neighborhood um and you could either come from the north um along 70th

[1:21:22] to where the big arrows are and come right to the front door right um or you could come from the south and go to

[1:21:29] where the big arrow is and be right at the front door and that as an entry space is front and center so you come in

[1:21:37] the doors you park your bike lock it up if or leave it if you feel all right um

[1:21:43] and walk in uh undo the stroller or whatever and you get to that Center Point and that's where the service point

[1:21:50] is you're looking at somebody that can help you or you're seeing the atrium um

[1:21:56] or you're seeing the children's space so it's it's all very um intuitive because

[1:22:02] of the large open space that we've planned um and then the positioning of the service counter to be able to almost

[1:22:10] um uh operate the whole library with a couple people at one location all of our

[1:22:16] sight lines are open um so you can sit at the service desk and see almost every

[1:22:21] corner uh that you would want to see for the staff and so uh that as a service Point uh

[1:22:27] perspective is is vital because then Librarians can do what they want and uh

[1:22:32] customers can uh find their way or know exactly where to go to get information

[1:22:37] and so uh same being if you came in a vehicle uh being able to park downstairs

[1:22:43] uh in the uh garage uh there's an elevator right there we've designed it so that it's uh it's a beacon below

[1:22:51] basically and you know exactly where to go you come up and you're right by that service point so um it's all been

[1:22:59] thought about in terms of the those user experiences and making it direct CU um

[1:23:05] we all know we're kind of visually cluttered right now you know get too much information on your phone and you

[1:23:11] can't pick things out so we try to declutter it and make sure that that's a from bicycle or walking uh car whatever

[1:23:19] bus uh right to the front door and then into the services sorry I get excited I can't

[1:23:24] I'll keep talking if you don't come well and then so when you come in from the Northeast does it does it ramp slowly

[1:23:31] down to the front door Northeast yeah yeah the in that case because it is so much higher the for reference um from

[1:23:38] the uh Northwest to the Northeast I think it's 14 ft of grade change so it

[1:23:46] you can't you'd have to have a switch back stair that kind of takes up the whole site and so we're relying that's

[1:23:53] the most challenging corner but we're relying on that really shallow grade navigating that for a longer

[1:23:59] distance and then just a left turn right to the front door and it's very evident and that's the drop off Plaza so it's

[1:24:06] we're separating uh cars and pedestrians in a very Safeway um anybody that you

[1:24:13] know works on a library knows that you know you got a book drop where you want to drop off on the left you got

[1:24:18] passengers you want to drop off on the right you got bicycles you got people that the most you the best thing you can

[1:24:24] do is try to kind of navigate those apart from each other and make it safe and that's really this whole north side

[1:24:31] is a ton of effort to get it safe and clear and accessible and that's what

[1:24:37] you're seeing here and and spacious plaas too so there's not going to be congestion when

[1:24:43] there is multiple say um caretakers with various different equipment I'm assuming there's going to

[1:24:50] be some um skaters on the we are working through various different

[1:24:57] site designs to help you know create a comfortable safe but then also you know

[1:25:02] risk management as well it's always a given yeah and if you're coming in to go to the art center you go through the

[1:25:08] front and then take the elevator up or stairs up we've we've uh kept it all at a central entry point and it's managed

[1:25:15] so it can be after hours or we can we can manage hours so if there's a disparate open in time we can manage it

[1:25:21] safely okay so and it seemed like this was but the public can park below the building too

[1:25:28] correct okay and where are the bus stops um if you look on this there's a bus

[1:25:33] stop about um on the south on uh York a third of the way yeah about a third of

[1:25:39] the way and then there's one just across 70th we have investigated changing them

[1:25:45] but there's complexity in how the bus needs to drop people off and uh

[1:25:51] Crossings uh where people might want to move go across York so we we in order to

[1:25:56] keep people safe uh we're still kind of investigating it but the current locations feel close and accessible and

[1:26:05] direct um and safe

[1:26:11] so at York

[1:26:17] yeah yeah so oh yes yes if you look at the North here there's a bump out

[1:26:23] there's a bump out where where we're talking about increasing that so it's a shorter distance to walk across you can

[1:26:29] across in time yeah thank you

[1:26:36] yeah yeah okay all right so I wanted to keep on the discussion of of public

[1:26:43] transportation and specifically bikes um there are a few different staff recommendations in the executive summary

[1:26:50] um I thought a lot of them were excellent and wanted to follow up on some of these and and ask if you had consider them so there was the first one

[1:26:58] about um working with the city staff to ensure that you know each changes to street with adjacent to the site

[1:27:04] wouldn't preclude the future edition of bike lane specifically along 70th um

[1:27:09] have you been doing that yeah I I was talking to the team earlier today and uh

[1:27:14] we do have capacity I I believe in terms of what's been planned Scott do you have any other no I'll say that

[1:27:26] yes okay okay um the other one in here that I thought was great was you

[1:27:33] know uh to consider installing a canopy or shelter above the proposed surface bicycle parking um I didn't see that in

[1:27:40] illustrations but do you are you concerned doing that I think overall we are looking

[1:27:46] intent on what that sou Plaza is not only with the bike uh kind of shade but

[1:27:51] also you know all the other activities in that so that's a mix of the trees but then we are looking at different

[1:27:57] fixtures that we can apply um so at the time we do not have necessarily something right over the bikes but

[1:28:05] that's kind of overall can be looked at for sure okay okay um I may have missed

[1:28:11] it because there's a lot of information take in but there was a recommendation about the long-term long-term bicycle

[1:28:18] parking stalls and the underground parking facility is that being incorporated into that design we do have

[1:28:23] them um I don't remember how

[1:28:29] many right

[1:28:36] okay okay all right uh I think that's it I mean I think that like I said just to

[1:28:42] recap those City staff recommendations I thought were all excellent and I hope that you guys keep working with them to

[1:28:49] um you know meet meet most of those recommendations as best as you can thanks

[1:28:57] did I hear you say that the pond was only going to have a couple inches of water in it no not a couple inches the

[1:29:04] uh the you can kind of see the scope in that uh few images here

[1:29:10] uh normal uh if you can determine scale here um normal water level is uh it's

[1:29:19] it's probably a couple feet deep okay oh BR is here where oh maybe you could uh give a little more

[1:29:27] detail yeah hey everyone uh BR Hansen from E

[1:29:35] I'm on the design team landscape architect uh these are the permanent pools that will always have water in

[1:29:42] them except for extreme drought conditions um the pools are

[1:29:47] approximately eight feet deep so they do hold a good amount of water thank you for clarifying and then

[1:29:55] sorry to make you go back to that one slide we were just on um with the bump out on the northwest corner um currently

[1:30:05] that is the largest concentration of Heritage and protected trees that are coming out it's

[1:30:11] quite a few there um and looking at the design the building is so beautiful that

[1:30:17] corner sort of feels unresolved and I I just I don't know if there's an

[1:30:23] opportunity to do something with public art or something amazing to really catch your eye but feels like a big sacrifice

[1:30:29] of those trees for what's looking like a large chunk of pavement for drop

[1:30:34] off yeah Point heard um We are continuing to look at it I think um

[1:30:41] managing the directness and accessibility I mean that's the the

[1:30:47] thing that's driven it but Point her and I it might be a little deceiving with the the bump out so that that whole

[1:30:54] northwest corner is meant to be a plaza and in inviting um and along with that

[1:30:59] gesture of the the building so we realized that you know the original design of putting those trees now

[1:31:06] granted it's similar to the building they they've lived a long long happy life and so it it was a battle of you

[1:31:12] know um addressing those grade changes the connection to that major

[1:31:18] intersection and having those trees so what we're trying to look at of other existing trees are the ones that are a

[1:31:24] little bit further south um and so that was kind of the balance that we had but I know we do have opportunities for

[1:31:31] public art as well so working through that um Avenue will definitely have opportunities where it is right I'm

[1:31:38] going to be located we're not quite sure yet and I just I know you guys have done an amazing job navigating the site and

[1:31:44] that will be a central drop off point I didn't see in any of the renderings in our packet or that you went through

[1:31:49] something that really grabbed my eye if I'm driving past it and want to know hey

[1:31:54] what's that I want to look at that so um just something to consider but really nice

[1:32:03] job questions commissioner El thanks for the presentation I guess

[1:32:10] the first thing I have to say is what a joy it is to live in a place that's investing in libraries so thank you for

[1:32:16] for your work on that it's really exciting to see this come to to our community and to the

[1:32:22] county I think the the one thing I wanted to ask about was parking if I read the deck right the

[1:32:29] peak demand in the study was 116 spots the code requires 160 and we're

[1:32:37] delivering 184 so it's a pretty significant overage so what's what's driving

[1:32:43] that um we do know that uh you you'll have especially with a facility that has

[1:32:51] all these amenities um that you're going to have um some pretty sizable events and we

[1:32:58] don't want to turn people away um because those sometimes those are their first experiences um and we felt that if

[1:33:05] we uh the the current plan for the north um isn't extensive on grade and then we

[1:33:14] with the amount below grade um that we could manage that amount and not uh keep

[1:33:20] people from coming to the facility and so it's a bit of negotiation um but

[1:33:26] especially when you have larger events that from both programs I'll also

[1:33:32] recognize um you know with EAC in their current facility it's hard for us to forecast

[1:33:39] and we know that they're you know going to get a bigger and more uh audience and more participation so I think in general

[1:33:47] the numbers that we're using may not be um and because we aren't we give what we

[1:33:53] currently have for our Peaks and our our current usage too so we suspect that

[1:33:59] definitely going up so balancing out the reductions but

[1:34:04] also uh one of the big Community engagement feedback was to balance out

[1:34:11] um the modes of transportation including the

[1:34:20] parking okay I mean I I have a lot of empathy for that for

[1:34:25] the decisions that you have to make however I mean it's just you can't help

[1:34:31] but hear the planners of the Southdale parking lot saying the same thing 30

[1:34:36] years ago or whenever that was well we got to plan for Black Friday which didn't exist then but we

[1:34:44] got so when we see a peak demand of

[1:34:50] 116 your concern is that there's too much uncertainty in the model to really

[1:34:56] have confidence in 116 I think we rely also on our um

[1:35:02] knowledge of our user groups too and they're um I know Idina Art Center is putting out their business plan and so

[1:35:09] getting feedback based on their Community engagement along with our community engagement so I think it's

[1:35:15] it's well educated decision- making and trying to balance out you know the need

[1:35:21] versus you know what some of the reduction that we were able to

[1:35:27] achieve yeah I mean part of it I mean a certain amount

[1:35:32] of my question feels silly just because you look at the the the partial and so much of it is green space that why is

[1:35:40] Aly concerned about impermeable surface but it's just a pet peeve but thank you

[1:35:46] very much for for your answer yeah I I think we're all challenged with uh we I

[1:35:52] I think I see a future where there's very little parking needed here um but

[1:35:57] we want to you know we want to have the lightest tread right now that we think is appropriate that doesn't keep people

[1:36:04] away right now and then be prepared for the future and so it really is the Water

[1:36:09] Management one is Imperial impervious you know reducing that and then um

[1:36:16] making it a delightful place and I think this is the Oak Grove on the north um it's meant to be that uh kind of Oak

[1:36:23] stand and uh in the future as it grow fills in and and I think uh it'll be a

[1:36:28] delightful experience even with some Paving so Trying to minimize the

[1:36:36] two and and I should also say the before and after is a striking contrast so so

[1:36:41] good work on that thank you thank you I just wanted to follow up on

[1:36:47] commission Aly just helped them out with the parking initiative although he did the majority of the work on that that we

[1:36:55] just presented the city council uh last week um have has it been considered At

[1:37:01] All by the county or I guess the project team that like after a period let's say two three years whatever you review what

[1:37:07] that capacity needed is and then if you decide so forth that you don't need all those stalls perhaps stalls along the

[1:37:15] Far East Side in the in the northeast corner could be you know removed paved

[1:37:20] under put and put Green Space there is there something you know you could potentially build into the project plan

[1:37:26] to to have that parking review after a period of time so in terms of understanding also

[1:37:33] what comes of parking is snow removal and some of all that stuff so I would think that in terms of evaluation yes we

[1:37:41] probably could have that consideration because there are some benefits on our side of too but I think I'm encouraged

[1:37:47] that it's going to take more than a couple years for us to really understand the EV flows of the facility too uh so

[1:37:53] as we grow into the facility as we see Ed and art center you know flourish um with their new facility and they're

[1:37:59] getting Ceramics back which is a huge demand in our society in our community

[1:38:04] so I think it it will take some time but it's always a helpful lens to keep in

[1:38:09] mind

[1:38:17] sure thank you so much uh for the presentation um there's just a lot going

[1:38:24] on here and and very exciting stuff and I definitely appreciate Mrs Liz right

[1:38:30] when you talked about the mission and the vision of hennipin County and how much you know you look at the library

[1:38:36] today and what you guys are proposing it's like night and day right with a with a huge focus on on sustainability

[1:38:43] and then you also Shar that pie chart showing the amount of uh you know

[1:38:48] Hardscape and then how that drastically change with green space I have a couple question questions that um I'll start

[1:38:56] from the outside in hopefully I'll uh be quick uh so the first one really

[1:39:03] is just the sustainability of the green space on the outside um very

[1:39:11] lovely right how much of this space so my I'll give you my question I'll tell

[1:39:17] you what I'm thinking so how much of this space has to be managed right

[1:39:23] versus a space that's self- sustaining um so for example in some

[1:39:30] spaces you have to replant the plants you have to cut the grass you have to put fertilizer you have to do things to

[1:39:36] keep it looking nice versus other spaces you could just let it sit and naturally

[1:39:42] it kind of sustains itself right so that's kind of the idea um and along with that is this is a very Green Space

[1:39:50] and a very Urban environment right um typically you see designs like this kind of pushing out going to the suburb area

[1:39:57] as you kind of cross between suburb and like more Rural right where there's more open spaces so I don't know if you guys have

[1:40:04] experienced this right like you're driving today in any DIN and you see like a bunch of turkeys crossing the

[1:40:10] street right and you got to slow down right and wait or you might see ducks or

[1:40:15] you might see turtles right I'm just curious about the management of this

[1:40:20] space and the potential Wildlife that could exist here and how that would impact the surrounding area so the

[1:40:26] overall question is sustainability of the green space and management of the Green Space yeah I I would say I'll

[1:40:34] before I offer other input I would say uh that we've had extensive

[1:40:40] conversations about what maintenance means right and how to measure quantify

[1:40:46] and plan for that so uh henpen county has been integral in the decision making

[1:40:52] and how do we get to a point where it's a comfortable amount of management of it

[1:40:59] understanding that we're asking ourselves to do things very differently right um there's a tremendous amount of

[1:41:05] effort to go into if this was all uh Golf Course grass that type of effort

[1:41:10] and the impacts on the environment are much different than what we're proposing but it's different and there's some activity that has to happen on that um I

[1:41:18] would say that I look forward to the biodiversity that's going to happen here it's going to offer a great great

[1:41:23] plethora of learning opportunities and just healthy engagement so those things

[1:41:30] all come with a cost like you're saying I think in some way um and being clear about that uh do you want to talk uh

[1:41:36] generally about the broader management yeah uh great questions and to speak to

[1:41:42] the wildlife impacts first I would say that this green space will be a part of

[1:41:48] the patchwork of the park system of V din so you already have deer and turkey and turtles at Adams Hill Park and along

[1:41:56] the greenway and this will provide more um green space for them to find habitat

[1:42:02] uh the majority of the green space that you're seeing especially around the Wetland um and on the East Hillside will

[1:42:08] be seeded with Native seeds and it will take part of the contract of our

[1:42:15] contractors will be three to five years of intensive management to get a

[1:42:20] permanent stand of native vegetation that is resilient and really requires

[1:42:25] less maintenance than that if you compared it to just a you know a Turf

[1:42:30] park space that you've got a mow weekly or twice a week um you've got a water maybe some chemicals are applied there's

[1:42:37] no chemicals uh that will be applied in this green space there's no Irrigation in this green space uh mowing would be a

[1:42:44] once a year activity in a majority of the space um you could introduce some

[1:42:50] controlled burning even uh if they wanted to do a more natural management approach uh with the appropriate

[1:42:57] professionals so we have also designed the site as a gradient of management so you have more manicured spaces close to

[1:43:04] the building that are also featuring native plants that provide habitat for pollinators and birds and the desirable

[1:43:11] species that we want to see but as you move away from the building it gets more natural lower inputs and um less of that

[1:43:20] Traditional landscape management approach so if I understand you correctly the

[1:43:27] initial setup might be a little bit more intense right to get it to that sustainable level much closer to the

[1:43:33] building you'll have more management as you push away less management but we're looking at easily a 0 to 5e kind of time

[1:43:41] period for this thing to kind of mature and be a sustainable space is that fair to say exactly yep gotcha and that is

[1:43:50] built into our plans for construction um um to make sure that we are providing

[1:43:56] henpen County with a landscape that is mature and ready to be maintained in

[1:44:02] sort of a longer term approach after the contractor is done I uh when you talked

[1:44:10] about the the the uh water depth uh I was going to ask about fishing but I guess you answered that question so

[1:44:20] um uh okay so my daughter she currently goes to the

[1:44:25] Dina Art Center uh she loves art I think she's going to be an artist I'm I'm

[1:44:32] hoping she was actually featured in Southdale for some drawings that she did with snow or something and um so I I was

[1:44:40] speaking to Janette there I think she's one of the staff members and she walked through the panel and and all that and

[1:44:46] the timelines that she talked about lines up with what you guys are saying

[1:44:52] um so it's great I I think we need it now my daughter is like seven right they

[1:44:59] make a lot of noise they scream Art Is Not Just painting art is banging things right you're you're putting banging kids

[1:45:07] in a library on the second floor okay and I'm trying to study on the first

[1:45:12] floor so talk to me a little bit about noise management through the atrium coming down like how do you guys think

[1:45:18] about separating the two but still keeping them in the same space

[1:45:24] uh yeah that's a great question um the whole facility is being designed to B3

[1:45:29] standards which is um Minnesota's version of basically if you know lead

[1:45:35] lead Platinum um it's has a very high standard and bar for uh many of the

[1:45:42] decisions we make and part of that is STC rating and on RC rating those are

[1:45:48] two ratings that talk about sound transmission and uh everything associated with what you're talking

[1:45:54] about um and it's a really high bar um probably the highest we've seen in our

[1:46:00] practice right now and so uh what that means is all the assemblies for the Wall

[1:46:05] Systems uh the way they reach the ceiling the way the floor is assembled has a really high resistance

[1:46:12] to allowing s transfer so that's all built in um and then the way we've planned it is to kind of

[1:46:19] compartmentalize into that Zone on the second floor with good doorways and

[1:46:24] enclosure as well as the high volume in the space so if you remember the images of the atrium um that has a perforated

[1:46:32] ceiling on it uh the entire ceiling um it has a large cavity above it full of

[1:46:38] insulating material that will trap and collect sound um as well as the volume

[1:46:43] and then uh when you don't have parallel walls it starts to help with that so it's really tuned and I I could say that

[1:46:50] this is going to be the quietest library that we've done even know libraries are loud now right so um I think we're in a

[1:46:57] really good place in terms of addressing that um at the same time what a

[1:47:02] wonderful place to be able to come and make something go down into the library

[1:47:07] and learn about it um and wayf find to uh learning and education so um I think

[1:47:14] you know I'm really looking forward to you know seeing what comes out of the first few days there

[1:47:21] wonderful um I'll keep going and I'll hopefully wrap up here quickly uh you

[1:47:27] know no normally when we look at building materials it's usually standard housing materials right

[1:47:35] these materials are a little bit different you have aluminum which is metal right but aluminum oxidizes so it

[1:47:41] doesn't rust but then you have perforated metal on

[1:47:48] concrete so as we think about this long term I'm thinking about rust the perforated metal rusting causing rust

[1:47:55] streaks down concrete if it rains or if it snows I'm not worried about the aluminum paneling I think that'll be

[1:48:01] fine but talk to me about the the perforated metal and and do you

[1:48:07] have any concerns or long-term concerns with that material as outside material

[1:48:14] oh the canopy itself yeah if I'm understanding which areas

[1:48:19] you're talking about

[1:48:29] yeah right so it's in two locations and um this uh it isn't associated with the

[1:48:38] concrete in any location but I understand your point of like how it gets managed and that um so our codings

[1:48:45] and all that um are uh being developed in connection with our specifications

[1:48:51] and that and we're managing water in a way that is meant to so um we've done

[1:48:57] this before in other locations um we don't have major concerns with um anything as long as we uh specify and

[1:49:04] the finishes are applied according to the way we specify them u in these location so the real only uh locations

[1:49:11] we're talking about um is the Kiln area and we have to do that as part of uh the

[1:49:17] way the Kiln operates and some of the um off gasing that happens with it uh we

[1:49:23] want to make sure that it's managed so there's that added layer of corrosion that we're resisting in our specifications and the way we're

[1:49:29] selecting it um and then the filtered light that comes through the canopy on the Terrace side

[1:49:36] um so you don't have any real concerns with the metal having rust issues the on

[1:49:42] the first image it's on the inside the second one the champagne color that seems like it might be on the outside

[1:49:48] but you're not concerned about that at all no uh we're not concerned with the

[1:49:55] specifications and the way we're pro providing the uh construction

[1:50:03] details all right last question guys sorry uh last thing we want is are yes

[1:50:10] similar to what was mentioned the longevity of our facilities are very important to us

[1:50:17] yeah so I'm sure you guys have been to Highland Hills right the ski lodge there

[1:50:23] I frequent there too during the winter time and really tall rough big Windows

[1:50:29] similar kind of design there's chairs along the window that's like high demand

[1:50:34] space right right the second you walk in there everybody runs in there and they just grabs those spots I'm just curious

[1:50:40] and you know of course this could be resolved in the future but just the placement of the chairs and everything

[1:50:47] like just talk to me a little bit more about how you guys think about who gets to sit by the window who gets to sit

[1:50:53] more internally how do you guys think through placement of of stuff in there well definitely first come first serve

[1:51:00] right I mean it's I'm going to have to arm wrestle for some of these seats because I think it's going to be very popular but um our strategy is mainly uh

[1:51:09] Variety in seating um and uh Variety in

[1:51:14] uh dial experiences so throughout the day you're getting um some areas that'll

[1:51:20] have a little bit more Daylight you'll have more filtered light in other locations and then it'll change over the during the day so you may have a

[1:51:27] favorite spot at 9:00 a.m. but then when you come in in the evening you're going to have a different favorite spot and so

[1:51:34] that mix of uh variety and types of seating and variety of experience across

[1:51:41] the day or season you know um allows you to kind of flex so it isn't an argument

[1:51:47] over that's my spot because that's where I always go but you'll find uh that there's uh

[1:51:53] um an ability to kind of move with your day your month your year um and the

[1:52:00] season so um that's what we find strategy-wise for planning libraries um

[1:52:05] because we we we know it works we've seen it um and we see engagement in that so barring kind of controlling people

[1:52:12] and tell them no you you take a ticket for that seat um we we really try to design that in um and I I think you're

[1:52:19] going to have several several favorite spots hopefully thank

[1:52:27] you all right I'll try to be somewhat brief um but thank you for your

[1:52:32] presentation tonight and for your time um starting out on the northeast there

[1:52:38] the entrance is where it ex the existing entrance is to the site um for main most of the most of the

[1:52:47] uh vehicular traffic and then it does come down a pretty steep hill there so sounds like that comes still comes down

[1:52:54] a little bit and then uh levels out and is where that parking level is that

[1:53:00] entrance while it's where the existing one is seems very close to Xerxes is was there consideration or and

[1:53:08] moving at more mid block or somewhere else on the site or yeah we looked at uh

[1:53:15] several uh locations for in and out on that block and um we had some that were

[1:53:23] more West um and we we were finding conflict

[1:53:28] with the uh it was the Walgreens across the street um and the confusion That

[1:53:34] Could Happen by having a a location there um and as we studied it further we

[1:53:40] found that you know the familiarity and um I think the kind of cleanness of

[1:53:47] being able to try to get the west side as a one One Direction if you look at this there's a a one way on the west of

[1:53:54] the parking um and then there's only two-way going into the the main garage

[1:53:59] that the below grade garage that this solution um got you far enough away from

[1:54:06] 70th so if you're are from York so if you're pulling off of that it isn't going to be congestion and then the

[1:54:13] cross traffic from across the street um and then allowing that kind of clean interior where you drop people off that

[1:54:20] one way is really important because we like I said earlier we don't want to have vehicles going two directions

[1:54:26] people walking across bikes coming all that mixed up so by by focusing on it in

[1:54:32] the way we have we've separated things kept it to a minimum and and I think

[1:54:37] provided the most safe experience that you could have thank you initially I didn't see

[1:54:44] the bike facilities but as we went through the uh renderings I did see it both in the North and South so that

[1:54:50] looks great um

[1:54:56] um that if you go back to that one that was the um that we're just on showing

[1:55:02] the

[1:55:07] exterior one of these the yeah a little bit

[1:55:13] further it was you you saw the entrance to the um I guess the parking

[1:55:18] underground parking it was the only I don't know if we had in our packet I just missed it but I'm assuming that's

[1:55:24] what that is and yeah well I guess you see it there it looks like a separate

[1:55:29] structure it was back on the the building finishes and stuff oh yeah maybe the elevation

[1:55:39] yeah right it was from the East it was it was

[1:55:46] looking nor it that one okay yeah see how it appears to be a separate stru

[1:55:52] structure out on the uh yep um just kind of wondering what's

[1:55:58] involved with that what is what is there the the thing I'm not seeing on the site plan is a a dumpster yep collection or

[1:56:05] anything let me I'll tie both North and South together for you so um that on to

[1:56:11] the left is that same Kiln structure and so it sits above on this side above the

[1:56:18] entry into the parking garage so right below that is the door for the parking

[1:56:23] garage um and there's a little bit of a gap between that Kil structure and the

[1:56:29] library itself it's a it's a different type of structure it has that perforation because it needs the air

[1:56:34] flow and everything associated with it and it has to be you know non-combustible and all the things

[1:56:40] associated with it but then it it it sits up on that Plaza that gives direct

[1:56:45] access to the students and that coming out um so when you look back at this side it does feel like it's separate but

[1:56:51] that's way in the back and then there's that sloping uh surface that comes up from

[1:56:57] the children's area on on top of it so um they're kind of integrated as a kind

[1:57:03] of um joint uh series of elements but not uh desparate in how they start to

[1:57:10] read as a part of the whole structure and the oh in the trash yeah sorry on the lower the trash is tucked under

[1:57:16] there as well um just off to where you see the garage door there's another set of inconspicuous doors that the trash is

[1:57:25] inside of that so we've kind of contained

[1:57:30] it uh not not trash laying out all over for sure okay all right

[1:57:41] um is there I mean hope not but is there I don't see any fencing uh around the

[1:57:47] water features at all is there any planned okay it doesn't have it um it's

[1:57:54] um I think there was a comment earlier in um Brian comment as well that um you

[1:58:01] know the management of the landscape um if you look at the site

[1:58:06] plan all your paths from the water and uh proximity to it are a great distance

[1:58:13] away and then it's going to be the kind of thicker um plantings and so it really is

[1:58:20] um when you get closer to the building it's more manicured and you know tactile

[1:58:26] as you get away uh towards the South it is it's it's more of landscape at a

[1:58:32] distance um and the plan is really kind of built that way um earlier on we were looking at paths that we kind of went

[1:58:38] through it and engaged it more and we thought that's not the right approach that it really is a passive landscape

[1:58:44] meant to work uh manage water bring biodiversity but it isn't something that

[1:58:50] you're frolicking in it's not a a working uh right so I mean the comment on skating I mean it's not really going

[1:58:56] to be inviting for skating and you're not going to encourage that in any way okay um or swimming

[1:59:02] certainly um you know oftentimes when you look at

[1:59:07] buildings and and public buildings there's there's plans for expansion this is one's quite a bit smaller than the

[1:59:14] existing um I know that H county has a lot of square footage of of space so are you is there any consideration for

[1:59:22] where I mean this is going to be a popular spot consideration for expansion we've done a robust pre-design

[1:59:29] and Analysis of what this Library based in the community the adjacent libraries

[1:59:35] we have Auburn not too far pen Lake Washburn so I think in general and especially then our partnership with the

[1:59:42] art center as well I mean the trying to be a you know right fit for that um site

[1:59:49] is also important for us and so getting it right was more important than necessarily future proofing um something

[1:59:55] that you know we can maybe look at in the future but not necessarily accommodating right now so so you nailed

[2:00:02] it hopefully yeah that's good like always right of course yeah um crystal

[2:00:07] ball and really the last question is is really just um you talk about all the the events that might happen here is

[2:00:13] there any consideration for other tenant space Andor catering kitchen uh kitchen

[2:00:18] space for events or not well we've always thought of the

[2:00:25] South Plaza as having flexibility for types of events that you know um we do have some areas that are planned for um

[2:00:33] temporary tents and things like that too so I think there's a a flexibility in terms of how you use those spaces that

[2:00:40] might be um not permanent but uh enable kind of uh things that come up and pop

[2:00:46] up uh as well so um we've tried to uh you really leverage the landscape as

[2:00:52] this flexible thing um interior spaces are flexible too um it's all raised floors and meant to be able to be

[2:00:59] adaptable uh longterm into the future so U we've tried to build in adaptability

[2:01:04] and flexibility as much as possible and another note is that um summer camps are

[2:01:09] going to be coming back and really flourish so uh we accommodated the Edina

[2:01:15] Arts Center's program so they do have what's more like a kitchen Nets they're encouraged to have catering but it be

[2:01:21] being part of the Bring It On Site not do it on site so okay so maybe food

[2:01:27] trucks along the way or something like that that' be awesome yeah um that'd be cool yeah I love the design it's great

[2:01:33] it's it's very beautiful building it's going to be a very busy building and what the one just only other comment I

[2:01:40] had I was when you're talking about the excess parking I thought what it would be neat if some was permeable and I see that there's about third of it on the

[2:01:47] surface is permeable paying so right um you know even if that went to a a PVE

[2:01:54] her situation it might be even more inviting but thank you that's all I have thank

[2:02:01] you any other questions okay I got a

[2:02:06] couple uh first off I think of all the feedback that we

[2:02:12] kind or at least personally that we requested from our sketch plan review I'd say that you knocked it out of the

[2:02:20] park with this spectacular state-of-the-art design both the

[2:02:25] appearance of the building as well as the function I think as you might recall

[2:02:31] there was a lot of unknowns when we first saw you basically nothing just a a box a parking lot and a hole in the

[2:02:38] ground so I commend you on that this is going to be a wonderful beautiful

[2:02:45] addition to the city um as was noted then like an art center and library is

[2:02:52] very important to every community so I'm excited to see that um and while this kind of fills in a lot

[2:03:00] of what in regards of how how the land is being used and I can kind of

[2:03:05] understand how you're getting there and have some suggestions and comments kind of to piggyback on some other questions

[2:03:12] and comments here um I'd be remissed if I didn't bring up again like why the

[2:03:19] land is being used I I this particular way and it gets back to some of the

[2:03:24] comments and questions we had uh during sketch plan about a year and a half ago

[2:03:30] and the worry we had was you know like we don't see much and the next time we'll see you is a fully designed um you

[2:03:38] know formal Proposal with limited amount and capacity to course correct and so

[2:03:45] some of the feedback and what I brought up to um staff today just gets back to

[2:03:50] kind of the process so like us as planning Commissioners whenever something's proposed that deviates you

[2:03:57] know we start with a comprehensive plan and what's in there is the Southdale

[2:04:03] District plan and the design experience guidelines and again I'm looking at

[2:04:09] those and I'm just going to quote it because I just want to make sure that like the residents who helped create

[2:04:15] these plans which is like the shared vision for this area is represented and if it it Devi Ates I just want to

[2:04:23] understand why but let me just read this so the design experience guidelines sets Baseline guidance for developers

[2:04:29] designers City V staff planning Commissioners and members of the city

[2:04:35] council when proposing designing or evaluating proposed introductions within

[2:04:40] the greater Southdale District which is clarified just below and they should be

[2:04:45] referred to when embarking on new development or Redevelopment There's no distinction

[2:04:52] whether there's a rezoning or a comprehensive plan Amendment it's basically if someone's proposing

[2:04:57] anything new or different in this area we should start with those principles

[2:05:03] which are rooted in Urban Design sets a framework and as was

[2:05:10] mentioned by commissioner Miranda kind of very passionately during the sketch plan is you know what we see although

[2:05:16] it's incredible and beautiful is very Suburban you know it's a standalone building with surface parking a lot of

[2:05:24] landscape and this is 8 Acres of prime real estate right in the center of our

[2:05:30] busiest commercial area in the city so I would just like to hear from the design team the project team um why like

[2:05:40] fundamentally we're seeing something so different than what we as a community

[2:05:45] expect to see from a basic framework level is that that a fair big question I

[2:05:50] just just got to hear something cuz I haven't heard anything in a year and a half that satisfies why it deviates to

[2:05:57] me and knowing if the ship has sailed which it seems like it has I will definitely have feedback um for the

[2:06:04] details but why we do these big things like the small area plan we're hoping to

[2:06:10] approve tonight is um so we start that process off on the right foot um and

[2:06:16] we're meeting the needs and the the future oriented aspirations of the city

[2:06:22] so I just like you to speak to that that's my big question why good luck I guess I'll start but

[2:06:30] I'll welcome anyone from my team to jump in so um looking at you know the current

[2:06:35] condition and what those amenities in the service center was um and obviously what we could bring It Forward into the

[2:06:41] future we also recognize how critical that site is for us as a county and the

[2:06:47] relationship between library and that that green space um and also identifying

[2:06:52] the 100-year flood plane so that put a lot of constraint on that south side of the um site as well so trying to balance

[2:07:00] out the priorities and still keeping that site as a whole was important for us while also um aligning with that

[2:07:07] partnership as well um so what we were trying to balance out with some of the things that Matthew mentioned are really

[2:07:14] taking ination those Southdale districts uh guidelines um with the cross and the

[2:07:21] um division of those blocks even though we w we aren't doing that physically uh we we're doing nods to that in terms of

[2:07:28] The Pedestrian access likewise with the orientation of the building and then some of that um those nods to um the

[2:07:35] adjacent um intersections as well uh so I think trying to find that balance of still keeping our priorities with

[2:07:41] keeping the the the full acreage um and bringing it to the future with the

[2:07:47] sustainable practices while also still recognizing that District guidelines

[2:07:52] yeah and I would say um you know having looked at the guidelines based on our

[2:07:57] last conversation and struggling with uh what scope is what we have and how do we

[2:08:05] uh think about the future because really that's what the guidelines are about right um what is the future here um and

[2:08:12] um barring uh putting more buildings on the site which is not the scope that I

[2:08:17] have um uh looking at it and saying okay uh here here is a way to uh take a piece

[2:08:24] of prime real estate like you mentioned and uh in a way make it uh something

[2:08:31] motan and uh biodiverse and healthy and

[2:08:36] accessible and connected and imagining you know when Target uh changes and you

[2:08:44] have you know five six story structures that are full of life and restaurants

[2:08:51] and mixed use right across the street and you can look across and walk very

[2:08:57] easily to a place that is vierse healthy open full of daylight I feel like uh

[2:09:04] making those connection points and uh preserving some of the space um I hope

[2:09:10] is not a detriment to that but a kind of Lifeline to uh a healthy and valued

[2:09:17] environment so that's my uh you know uh over the top kind of uh belief in in

[2:09:23] that we we can do things right now that don't necessarily meet the the letter of it but uh can connect to what's

[2:09:31] potential in the future and so I'm hoping for that right in in what we've done with the scope we have uh on the

[2:09:39] table yeah I guess speaking to some stuff and again if it's out of your purview like you mentioned with scope

[2:09:46] and you can kind of see the site now is in generally you know there's kind of quadrant

[2:09:52] kind of right um one of the suggestions not just from me but other Commissioners

[2:09:58] and in those principles is you know these transitions to the neighborhood as well as

[2:10:03] maximizing potential of land that could be used for more value um EG the parking

[2:10:11] in the northeastern Corner versus housing you know we talked about this housing crisis the city knows about it

[2:10:18] the county knows about it it why was housing neglected to be considered or

[2:10:25] some other multiuse component Elsewhere on the site and I know that's outside your

[2:10:31] scope but if there's someone here that could answer that I think it would it matter a lot to the constituents who

[2:10:37] kind of put together these guidelines and plans yeah I definitely can't answer

[2:10:44] that but as I mentioned the the story of soud started in 20 you know 15 and so it

[2:10:52] it's had a lot of hats and a lot of different conversations with many different individuals that included

[2:10:59] maybe some of those scenarios and I think as we've progressed to the current design uh this is where we've

[2:11:06] we've landed as The prominent priority for us and I will hand it over to

[2:11:12] David thank you chair Commissioners uh my name is David Huff I'm the Hupa County

[2:11:18] Administrator uh actually Liz we started in about 2010 uh with a property that was an

[2:11:25] amalgamation of multiple buildings that had been built over many years we had a district court function we had a service

[2:11:32] center and we had a library and at one time it housed Probation Services so we

[2:11:37] were looking at an obsolete set of buildings that was underutilized we had to close portions because the roof was

[2:11:44] leaking uh I remember back in 2012 looking at

[2:11:49] costs uh to preserve the building and they range from 40 to 120 million 120

[2:11:55] million is what the Central Library cost when it was constructed two decades ago so uh over the years uh we have been

[2:12:02] approached many many times by developers wanting to buy the property an 80 acre

[2:12:09] parcel as you pointed out shair and once it's gone that way it's

[2:12:14] gone we uh we wanted to hold the property and really create a community

[2:12:19] amenity as you know Southdale library is one of the Premier libraries in the 41 library system and I

[2:12:27] don't mean to pull any light away from the other libraries that we hold but

[2:12:33] it's a premier library from the standpoint of utilization collection and just uh

[2:12:39] access and so we decided to hold the property we had multiple iterations of

[2:12:45] how we would do this uh we had lots of diagrams with boxes over the years

[2:12:51] uh it had housing at one point uh and we we decided that let's take the Hardscape

[2:12:58] off that 8 Acres let's work with the city of Adina let's figure out what the

[2:13:04] needs of the city of Adina are we talked about the art center we talked about

[2:13:10] greens space and as you've seen it's a beautiful Green Space this is in the hanip county board's Capital Improvement

[2:13:17] program it's 100 hopefully 121 million project dollar project that we'll

[2:13:23] Finance U utilizing our AAA Bond rating and provide a phenomenal

[2:13:29] amenity uh you've all asked great questions we're very proud of what we have here and uh we hope you're

[2:13:36] supportive of uh this design so that we can proceed and get it opened in

[2:13:43] 2027 thank you for the answer I appreciate it um I'll have

[2:13:49] comments to follow up on that but I appreciate kind of the transparency then getting to the root cause of why we're

[2:13:55] seeing what I would say is a disparity between expectations that we have for how the land's being used and how it

[2:14:02] might be used and why it's a benefit um I guess my last question and then

[2:14:07] depending on the answer I'll have I'll tweak my feedback uh once we kind of has

[2:14:13] have our comments but you mentioned in in regards to the site design maybe some

[2:14:20] of its part parking parking access sidewalks contouring how much of that is fluid and

[2:14:29] or you are open to changes with some of the details you know preserving

[2:14:37] trees you know enlarging sidewalks or kind of moving that stuff around where

[2:14:42] are you at in the design that you would accommodate you know recommendations to

[2:14:47] do that as well are you pretty firm with what we're seeing um I can give you a

[2:14:54] context of all the conversations that got us to where we are so um one thing

[2:15:00] is M maintenance and management of it you know the more sidewalks in that you have the more effort there is and then

[2:15:06] also proximity right uh earlier conversations about what do you have access to what don't you is it a working

[2:15:13] landscape is it a an engagement landscape and so there's a a tremendous

[2:15:19] amount of push and pull and uh negotiating between multiple factors

[2:15:25] that has gotten it to where it is so if you pull one of the strings you know you start pulling on another string

[2:15:31] somewhere so I I'd have a hard time saying you know what's off the table what's on the table but um I think our

[2:15:38] process with the people involved has really developed uh uh something that I

[2:15:44] would stand by that is um highly accessible uh provides the right amount

[2:15:50] of access and um is manageable in that aspect um topography in that is really

[2:15:57] challenging with the great changes and to be able to achieve Ada at every location and make it feel seamless you

[2:16:04] start pulling that lever and and we see some things so I I think it's best just to hear your uh your comments and let us

[2:16:12] ask ourselves you know does is that something that's good and can we do it

[2:16:17] right it might be good and it's like it unravels everything or or it might be good and it's like yeah we should just

[2:16:22] do that it works and it's within the purview and everything that we've been trying to

[2:16:28] achieve and I I want to maybe emphasize some of our other subject matter experts that we working with which is uh the

[2:16:35] city of edas parks and as well as uh Three River park districts so some of the technical in terms of the makeup of

[2:16:42] the Assembly of our um Trails the whis and and even kind of the borders I mean

[2:16:47] that's all going through a lot of lenses so I I I'm to your confidence I know we

[2:16:53] have the right people on our project teams but I think we're always open eared too okay yeah no and as I

[2:16:59] mentioned uh when we saw the sketch plan there was a lot left to be desired and

[2:17:05] then you guys did take at least that feedback and really let's say augmented

[2:17:10] the design before it got to city council so people are aware of the process like if we make a recommendation tonight it's

[2:17:17] not a binding one it is one to the city council who ultimately has the authority to make

[2:17:23] the call um however if there is time between now and then for you to include

[2:17:29] suggestions or tweaks to it i' I'd strongly recommend those be considered and implemented

[2:17:37] um but thanks and I I guess I would just turn it maybe we could just go down the row if people have final comments or if

[2:17:44] they have more questions typically we do this question answer you still need to open the public hearing yeah gosh my

[2:17:50] good okay we do all right well I appreciate it we're we're going to open it to a public hearing um thank you very

[2:17:58] much thank you thank you thank you Carrie wow getting ahead of myself here I'm looking at the time okay so this is

[2:18:06] the second public hearing of three tonight uh and staff did have it on my

[2:18:12] page it's just shrunk and I missed it so um for those who are tuning in remotely

[2:18:17] um if you're not waiting the queue since the previous one please call the following number 312 535

[2:18:26] 8110 enter access code 2861

[2:18:31] 072 3508 the password is

[2:18:37] 5454 and press star three on your keypad when you would like to get in the queue to

[2:18:43] speak while we wait for you to do that uh we will open it right now to those who are here in person that would like

[2:18:50] to test ify please come up to either Podium State your full name address and

[2:18:55] you got 3 minutes thanks for hanging around for this we appreciate

[2:19:03] it yeah my name is Michael wearing I live at 722

[2:19:09] 7220 York Avenue South I overlook the current Library I'll be overlooking the

[2:19:15] construction of the new library and I was originally only going to state that

[2:19:22] I understand that the motion that's going to finish this all up will be to uh approve the ver the height variance

[2:19:30] and I can assure you that nobody in our building would object to approving a height

[2:19:35] variance um and that's that was going to be what I was going to limit my comments to but I will also say that as it

[2:19:42] relates to the process of going from some sort of philosophical statement

[2:19:48] made U in developing a plan and then coming to the point that you have been

[2:19:57] presented this evening has to it would go it would be interminable interminable if you did all

[2:20:04] of the little getting into the nuts and bolts if you I I was a superintendent of

[2:20:10] schools for 11 years not not in Minnesota and I can tell you this somebody has to come up with a plan to

[2:20:18] go forward and you can't have everybody in the world involved in that process so

[2:20:24] I think the people who presented tonight have done an amazing

[2:20:30] job thank you very much is anyone else here in person I'd like to

[2:20:40] testify seeing none I guess we'll turn to the que is anyone in the queue that's ready to speak it's been over a minute

[2:20:47] yep nobody is in the queue to speak so I think it's safe to proceed motion to close a public

[2:20:52] hearing second all those in favor say I I so move public hearing has been closed

[2:20:59] now we can bring it back to the Planning Commission to deliberate um if there's

[2:21:04] not any more questions usually out of efficiency it's easy just to again to go down the line to Share comments one by

[2:21:12] one and then followed up with a motion for something this large I have nothing else okay

[2:21:22] okay just a few comments um it's a beautiful building I'm not an

[2:21:29] architect but so I have I I wouldn't say I have refined taste in buildings but I know what I

[2:21:35] like and I I think it's an impressive building and it's going to look nice in our community so thanks for the the

[2:21:40] quality of the design um I'd like the fact that it's closer to York brings it more into the

[2:21:47] community less of a separate institution than it than it is right

[2:21:53] now I have a lot of empathy for what chair Bennett was talking about is just the the most basic of land use questions

[2:22:00] on this project um we I mean perhaps might have

[2:22:07] preferred different land uses in some respects um but henan County owns the

[2:22:13] land and henan county is going to figure out what to do with it and I guess I can rationalize that it's good my my main

[2:22:20] thought thought was well is this a place where we need more open space probably not but I as as you said

[2:22:27] a few minutes ago there's plenty of density to the West there's going to be more density to the West so I can I can

[2:22:34] feel comfortable with that that way um parking I mentioned before it's a

[2:22:41] pet peeve but I can rationalize that too it's a trade with all the other wonderful sustainability things that

[2:22:47] you've done on the project uh and I do think that you've done a very impressive job since we saw

[2:22:53] you last as far as uh connectivity to and around the space um

[2:23:00] I really think you've done a good job thinking about how people are going to access this building what modes where they're going to go I done a nice job

[2:23:10] um making that work last thing I'll say so I'm and I'm very supportive the last

[2:23:16] thing I'll say and director Teague maybe you can help

[2:23:22] help me understand what we how we as a Planning Commission can

[2:23:27] influence the last step of connectivity to the southeast to the park and to the

[2:23:34] trail uh it's not it's not the applicant's job is that already part of

[2:23:40] a plan or what can we do to make it part of a plan so it's ready when the building's

[2:23:45] ready I believe that that is the plan for the city to make that connection but you could you could add that as a

[2:23:52] recommendation to the city council that the city complete that connection okay

[2:24:05] thanks um I have a a couple of concerns

[2:24:10] um one is the noise as I think commissioner Smith um alluded to um I'm

[2:24:18] at the library a lot um with young children and it is not

[2:24:25] quiet it is not anywhere close to quiet so I have a um little bit of concern

[2:24:31] about the atrium and the openness of it and I I certainly appreciate the visual

[2:24:37] that you gave us and the idea behind it um but I'm a little concerned about

[2:24:44] about the the noise and um the Acoustics um I'm also concerned a little

[2:24:50] bit about uh the entrance and the exit and um bicycle access in particular

[2:24:57] because um really the only place kids go

[2:25:02] on bicycles I mean that's for for long before anybody in this you know while

[2:25:07] anybody in this room was growing up or was a you take your bicycle to the library so um the fact that

[2:25:16] um it isn't just adults or and or employees that will be using um that

[2:25:23] will be accessing the library um by a bicycle but it'll be children as well so I think Extra Care needs to be taken in

[2:25:30] terms of access um for bicycles um I think the city needs to be aware that as

[2:25:41] in its new iteration particularly with all the Green Space the library will um

[2:25:50] a reflection of its greater um purpose and value which is serving a greater

[2:25:57] population than readers and borrowers and that is something that is the city

[2:26:03] just has to be prepared for so I think that that that um that's not on you guys

[2:26:09] at all that's something that the city can't come back and say in a couple years oh we didn't know there' be people

[2:26:14] hanging around outside or something like that that's going to be part of what's going to happen and everybody the city

[2:26:21] needs to own that um having said all that um I am fully supportive of this

[2:26:28] and I think um there is nothing that um reflects better on either the city or

[2:26:35] the county certainly um than you know a facility such as this in between the

[2:26:42] library and the Art Center so I think when you go in as a stranger you go to a

[2:26:48] neighborhood and you want to assess or or or try to make a judgment about a

[2:26:53] city you look at the library and the services it provides so I think this is a wonderful step

[2:27:02] forward thank you again for the presentation

[2:27:07] um so I think you got a lot of questions tonight and you answered a lot of

[2:27:12] questions tonight um I appreciate chair Bennett's concern with the design guidelines and

[2:27:19] how this land is being utilized but one thing that helps tremendously is

[2:27:25] when developers like yourself and the team answer transparently with your

[2:27:30] thought process of how you got there that goes a long way to helping residents understand why this is

[2:27:37] here and it goes a long way right so even though it may not hit everything

[2:27:44] from the design guidelines we know why it's here and and

[2:27:49] and what you're trying to do I certainly raised the questions that I had noise was one you answered it with

[2:27:55] the B3 uh sustainability and bu and building design so I think that helps

[2:28:01] and then you covered a lot when it comes to um the ecosystem and sustaining it

[2:28:06] and the management so that's really clear and I think that's really important for folks to understand

[2:28:13] um overall I'm very supportive you bring art you bring education and learning

[2:28:21] together that's how you build culture that's how you build societies that's

[2:28:27] how you transform a community into a growth community and so this is a very

[2:28:35] unique item right you combine these two so I'm I'm very excited I love what I

[2:28:41] see I love how you transformed that hard cover asphalt area

[2:28:46] that doesn't get utilized into something that is biodiverse and driving sustainability right and

[2:28:53] again channeling a little bit of blue here right we want to get more sustainability we want to think about

[2:28:59] climate we want to take about biodiversity I think you guys have hit all three points really well with this

[2:29:05] design so I'm very excited I hope this moves to the next stage for the team I

[2:29:11] think you guys did a really good job of coming back with something that's really beautiful and I think it's going to really Drive culture here in the city

[2:29:22] okay we've covered a lot of ground already so I'll just say compliments to the team and to the county on the

[2:29:29] process to date um fantastic design I've been to the existing

[2:29:34] Library uh I see this this plan for this library and I'm I have two children doe in May and

[2:29:42] I'm much uh more excited about bringing him to this proposed Library than the existing Library so thanks

[2:29:55] okay so I'm going to talk in terms of um land use and

[2:30:03] um and I am okay with a monum Monumental building and a open with an open space

[2:30:11] in front of it um I think it's appropriate for the site I think it's appropriate to have density to the West

[2:30:17] this is also you know cuz this is a henen County site it is in the city of Adina but it's henip in county land and

[2:30:24] it is right next to Richfield and there is a whole series of small scale single family homes just

[2:30:32] to the east of here so this library is not just for a Dina um it is for the

[2:30:38] whole area and I think they're recognizing that in the layout of this

[2:30:44] um so I'm completely okay with the open space in front of this and and save that

[2:30:50] density for properties that are west of this and north of this

[2:30:57] um and I I agree with you that the way the cus access through pedestrians in

[2:31:05] the crosswalks and people going is breaking down this large 8 acre property

[2:31:12] into smaller areas discrete areas the building on one side the open space on the other um the Gathering space in the

[2:31:19] middle um so I actually do think it um conforms to the southg Dell guidelines in terms

[2:31:27] of breaking down the block um I think the art center is the wild card in terms

[2:31:33] of parking in some ways because our art center was so tucked away before and now

[2:31:39] it's going to be in a much more prominent very easy to access um place so I think it could you

[2:31:47] could have issues with parking um and I'm thrilled that you are willing to

[2:31:54] partner with the city of Adina and allow the art center to be in there I think that's a a good Synergy so I'm in I'm in

[2:32:03] support of this

[2:32:09] varience um it's funny I uh appreciate the thought but did not see the sort of

[2:32:14] more existential land use question it is a library today it's going to be a library tomorrow it's not up for sale

[2:32:21] and it's we don't own it so in in my mind it would be as if you know the

[2:32:27] target site wanted to become Joanne Fabric or you know whatever the new the new thing is um I think you've done a

[2:32:34] fabulous job I think it'll be a huge amenity I think um whoever said uh that

[2:32:40] the commercial space eventually will have more density and more people uh was right on the money um there will

[2:32:46] continue to be more density there and proximity to the library is great I think is going to make for a fun

[2:32:52] challenge for you um as Architects to make sure those Street Crossings are

[2:32:57] kid-friendly for those biking from the bower or the Weston or wherever um and

[2:33:03] make it attractive when it is a drive by but then it's also a

[2:33:08] walk too on on that so I think you have a fun challenge there um it looks beautiful I'm really excited about all

[2:33:15] the environmental commitment and um sustainable design and I think it'll be a great

[2:33:23] asset all right thank you uh as I said before just state-of-the-art facility

[2:33:31] and and appearance and function I mean it would be it will be an amazing attribute to the city I guess again

[2:33:39] where I just or my huge hang-up is is while this

[2:33:44] is amazing I firmly believe that we have not seen something that could have been

[2:33:50] better and if it's a trade up between the the

[2:33:55] county keeping the land and building a library there versus selling all of it off I am in favor of what is being done

[2:34:03] however there are creative Partnerships that can be done where some of the land set you know set aside for someone and

[2:34:10] you're developing things you know in close collaboration with each other like Centennial Lakes right I mean if that

[2:34:16] was just one use it would it wouldn't be is bolder exciting and I think with 8

[2:34:22] Acres we we sold ourselves short here and I just I feel like this has happened with the city too

[2:34:30] with the fire station site um I don't think we should preclude anyone from

[2:34:37] sticking to our guidelines that's kind of the whole point of coming together and developing a vision so whether it's

[2:34:44] the city who wants to do their thing or it's the county I mean we we still have to hold each other accountable with kind

[2:34:51] of achieving our vision that said I am I'm favorable to what this use is and

[2:34:57] where we're at currently I am just disappointed in the process that didn't lead us to something more drastic and

[2:35:05] exciting so for my comments of how to say improve some of this and what would

[2:35:11] get my support is the parking surface parking I mean we don't need it and I

[2:35:18] think the approach currently is backwards of build it and then if we don't need it remove it I think you

[2:35:25] should build what you need and then if you need more build it if someone has to

[2:35:31] park for a couple months across the road and that dissuades them to visit I don't

[2:35:37] think that's a risk worth settling for I think you snip out the East part of the

[2:35:43] parking move that access point more mid block like commissioner Nelson pointed

[2:35:48] out and and then you can reserve that East Side to not necessarily expansion

[2:35:54] but maybe there comes a time where hey it makes sense to do some housing or some other use along that Eastern side I

[2:36:02] think you have like we have to think of the future and in terms of that site

[2:36:08] that Eastern and Northeastern quadrant could be better served instead

[2:36:13] of just having cars park so I strongly encourage you to shrink the design the

[2:36:19] parking just to the west and have it have it ready to go if you need to expand it to the east but that allows

[2:36:26] more of that future adaptive reuse um sidewalks uh the South sidewalk

[2:36:33] running East West I I I'd like to see that wider it looks narrow um the

[2:36:38] sidewalk to the West I think it would be wise to do a Spur that connects kind of

[2:36:45] to that platform that goes out into the water that's where there's those Heritage trees I think you could just

[2:36:52] use that path that used to be the entrance for another sidewalk and keep

[2:36:58] those Heritage trees the grading doesn't need to change all that much from your

[2:37:03] plan uh the northwest corner that's a lot of concrete and while it is being

[2:37:10] told to us is a plaza a a Plaza on the corner of a busy road is not going to be

[2:37:15] a plaza like when you have this whole site no one's going to linger there I think keeping some of those trees

[2:37:22] they've made it a long time like even a even four out of the eight or 10 um

[2:37:28] could frame a nice sign a nice welcoming place to this natural open

[2:37:34] area um and then keeping the the the

[2:37:39] trees in general it looks like a lot of eliminated along the west I would encourage the sidewalk to shift farther

[2:37:47] than 8 ft from the road you got 50t Fe to work with there's maybe a swell but

[2:37:52] could you move it another 10 ft and then keep those trees that are protected trees there um as far as the water

[2:37:59] feature I heard some conflicting information like from seeing the the footprint of it if if it really stays 8

[2:38:07] ft deep like permanently great but from how small that footprint like shrunk to

[2:38:13] and like the normal operating area it looked more like 2 ft deep so whatever you can do to kind of design it line it

[2:38:21] with a way to keep more water in it than just a couple feet would be better

[2:38:27] that's all I got for my comments and suggestions anything else from

[2:38:33] anyone all right I guess I'd open it to a motion and if there's

[2:38:39] any I guess Carrie we don't necessarily need to do some

[2:38:44] binding feedback as part of a recommendation but there's been some suggestions here with noise and some

[2:38:51] sight features I guess we just can assume you guys are taking note of that

[2:38:56] unless there's something super binding that any Commissioners believe in well I

[2:39:02] just I I mean around the noise issue I mean I think it was add dress that they

[2:39:07] mentioned it was the quietest Library they've designed to date and they used to design them pretty quiet so I mean I

[2:39:14] think a lot of thoughts gone into it so I you know again I think it I think we're pretty good there at least I'm

[2:39:20] good I'm I understand it okay I feel good about

[2:39:26] it i' like to make a motion to recommend that the city council approve the conditional use permit site plan and

[2:39:34] Building height variance for 701 York Avenue a second do a roll call

[2:39:42] vote commissioner Nelson hi commissioner Aly hi commissioner Padia hi I

[2:39:50] commissioner Smith I commissioner day I commissioner felt I

[2:39:56] commissioner hanaman I chair Bennett hi congratulations on the next step

[2:40:02] really hope you take some of the feedback we shared tonight if it's not too late and incorporate into um a

[2:40:08] perfect plan for the city council to see thank you so much for all the great work

[2:40:13] and coordination collaboration all right we're only

[2:40:19] way behind schedule uh we're going to do a five minute water bathroom break and

[2:40:26] we'll be back well let's do four minutes so 9:45 be

[2:40:48] back

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[2:46:09] I was kind of looking around like we're waiting on a couple people and it looks like you're there so I think we're good

[2:46:16] to go uh Addison if you want to take this this way so this is uh the third and final public hearing about Lincoln

[2:46:23] and London der small area plan take it

[2:46:28] away we're here tonight to present the Lincoln and London da small area plan this was a 2024 work plan item for the

[2:46:35] commission uh Commissioners day felt and Miranda were the assigned leads from the commission to lead this item uh there

[2:46:41] was also a working group that was formed that had six other members uh those individuals were Nancy spanis Steve

[2:46:47] Brown gasha pandia Karen Griffith Jim DIY and Russ Rubin um

[2:46:52] the city also hired men collaborative as a consultant to assist with the plan Zack locham is the project manager he's

[2:46:57] here tonight to um give a a presentation give an overview of the plan um as with

[2:47:03] all of our small area plans the intent is that we would adopt this as an amendment to the comprehensive plan

[2:47:08] which requires Metropolitan Council review uh so the request here tonight is for you all to recommend um to the city

[2:47:15] council that um the council authorize staff to submit it to the Met Council for review um so before I turn over to

[2:47:23] zaco I think that Commissioners day and felt want to say a few words about the process so I'll hand it over to

[2:47:29] them you can talk here I'm gonna um before I start I want to

[2:47:34] acknowledge all of the work Lum moranda has done on the as the Planning Commission chair of the Lincoln London da small area plan he worked on this

[2:47:42] diligently for much of the past year and only because he's not here tonight am I helping to introduce the report

[2:47:49] so how to plan for our city has always been a topic and sometimes intense

[2:47:54] debate um what can individuals and businesses do with their land what are

[2:47:59] the needs of the community the city the region and the state what are the existing conditions how is the site

[2:48:06] currently zoned and where do we want it to go if we want to be responsible to Residents who live here businesses that

[2:48:13] operate here and the health and well-being of our children it is important to take the time to take in

[2:48:18] all the information that goes into the planning of our communities we need to identify and

[2:48:24] understand the place the people views traffic engineering infrastructure

[2:48:29] shared amenities land use and land values this happens through gathering

[2:48:34] information from our planning staff engineering staff urban planners and by talking to and listening to each

[2:48:42] other this is why our city takes the time to do small area plans it is both for hearing the residents and businesses

[2:48:50] and communities but is also to allow us as residents and individuals to

[2:48:56] participate in learning about each other our city and how we learn to engage in

[2:49:01] building our community I'd also like to thank mind in guiding us through the plan and creating

[2:49:07] a document that is both comprehensive and clearly written for the small area plan I'm

[2:49:13] going to reiterate um we had just shyia 40 individuals apply to be a part of the working group of these applicants we

[2:49:19] were only able to select six to participate um these six were homeowners

[2:49:24] retirees currently working former commission members new residents lifelong residents current business

[2:49:30] owners and former business owners um add's gone through their names but I

[2:49:36] want to um uh appreciate their taking the time to participate listen provide feedback

[2:49:43] and most importantly to share what they have learned with their neighbors

[2:49:53] okay so good introduction to overall why we have small area plans and what that process looks like wanted to spe get

[2:49:59] into a few specific details about this small area plan and how we how we function um you know from A Team level

[2:50:06] we met semi-regularly and would discuss you know basically every step of the way

[2:50:12] how we went from initial Concepts down to Greater detail and decide as a team

[2:50:17] you know what we like what we disliked about that um as Maryweather said you know as members of the Planning

[2:50:24] Commission and then just members of the community uh I thought we worked extremely well together um and we one

[2:50:30] thing that we did well together was engage with the community and I thought that was a great great thing that uh men

[2:50:36] really helped facilitate um you know early on in the process we had public engagement events

[2:50:43] over by like the Caribou Coffee uh over there on you know the Lincoln lary kind

[2:50:49] of business park I would call it or complex over there um we had events at

[2:50:54] Walnut Ridge Park we had poster sessions where we would introduce residents to early Concepts and really get them

[2:50:59] thinking about what we' like to see in the area and inform them about right the long-term vision of not just that area

[2:51:06] but the area around it as well right so Transportation right the green line extension think about how those things

[2:51:12] interact with the rest of the plan um at one point we did a you know Maryweather

[2:51:17] helped lead a walking tour um of the area with some residents and and kind of explain the process and

[2:51:22] explain what we were capable of doing with a small area plan and what we're not capable of doing um I

[2:51:29] helped uh lead a bike tour Zach was there as well um so we biked around the area and kind of again gave the same

[2:51:35] overview to people so that was a great experience um and then even after that event there was a a member that uh had a

[2:51:43] small business in that business complex um just to the south of Minneapolis real

[2:51:49] Association uh and the mayor and I walked through there and got some got a kind of overview of that that facility

[2:51:55] and whatnot and and why that that particular business owner liked that area um another thing we did well so

[2:52:02] beyond the public engagement so after we did some of those early events we had a a business survey um so members of the

[2:52:08] commission and members of the small area plan went out and talked to just about every single business owner um in the

[2:52:15] area um and I definitely want to highlight Steve Brown's work on that uh cuz he put together a really

[2:52:21] comprehensive overview of that um but we basically went out and said you know asked people what were their plans for

[2:52:27] the area the future did they plan on staying there for the long term did they plan on moving to different facilities

[2:52:33] in in the short term right what how what have they invested and you know what did

[2:52:38] they want to see in the area in order for them to stay there potentially um and then you know really how did the

[2:52:43] area meet their needs or or not meet their needs in order to help inform this Mario plan as we went forward

[2:52:49] um we had a few different draft reviews with residents uh there was some quizzing there was uh I don't remember

[2:52:54] the platform that we used to to meter y yeah so an interactive quiz um which we

[2:53:00] weren't allowed to I wasn't allowed to participate because I knew the answers so got first place um but the residents

[2:53:06] like that those types of activities as well as you know vote different voting of ideas and then doing kind of Hands-On

[2:53:12] activities in terms of all right here's a block of space for this for the street if you have X number of feet to try to

[2:53:18] fit in can you do a curb here can you do green space how does that work with a trail and whatnot um it really I think

[2:53:24] helped visualize for residents what could fit in um in the Lincoln lary area

[2:53:30] so overall you know I thought we got did a good job of engaging with the community we got lots of different

[2:53:36] perspectives offered uh which is a good thing we did you know really want to hear other people's opinions we didn't

[2:53:43] don't just want to listen for our opinions to come out of their mouths um which you know is should be the overall

[2:53:49] goal of engaging with your residents and how well the team did and really men

[2:53:55] specifically um I think you know and taking feedback that we received is reflected in the the final kind of draft

[2:54:02] that we're here today and really the I mean I haven't seen much public uh push back to it I think we've got some

[2:54:08] limited some limited comments just on some minor details but overall I think people that I've talked to have embraced

[2:54:14] it and are looking forward to this so with that we can talk about the details of the plan great thank you both um for

[2:54:21] that that introduction so I will try and go fairly quickly um for you I have a few slides here um but I know you've had

[2:54:27] some time to sit with the plan as a document as well so I'm sure um we can jump into more details as necessary so

[2:54:34] um we began this process um roughly last um you know I think I am going to just

[2:54:39] so I can see a little better I think I'm going to use one of these if that's okay I've got M

[2:54:46] three is that okay okay perfect um just so I can see a little better I'm sorry it's uh past my bedtime so my eyes

[2:54:52] are not where they normally are so we started roughly at last May um and we

[2:54:58] used a um sort of thre stage process um the first phase was really looking at um

[2:55:05] understanding the area getting a good sense of what the key um constraints and opportunities on the site were the

[2:55:11] second phase looked at really envisioning the future and and beginning to um develop vetted strategies and then

[2:55:18] the the Final Phase was really in documenting an implementation approach we are now um moving towards um that

[2:55:24] actual adoption and in each one of those phases we did do public engagement as a component of that um Ryan already gave a

[2:55:30] pretty good overview of a number of the ways that we were that we did do Outreach um one of the things that I'll

[2:55:36] add to that that we really tried to be sensitive about was really trying to pay attention to who was coming to us and

[2:55:42] who wasn't and thinking about ways that we could adapt our engagement approach in order to reach different groups so

[2:55:48] for example after the first Community Workshop which we held in the park um we noted that a couple of the groups that

[2:55:54] we knew that we had wanted to talk to specifically renters and families were a little less present than we had hoped

[2:56:01] they would be at that event and so we used popup events at um going to a park

[2:56:07] at a time when Youth Sports were happening um actually going to the laden which is the large apartment building in

[2:56:12] the neighborhood and setting up at their amenity deck and talking to people as a part of that so really trying to make

[2:56:18] sure that we were bringing in a lot of different um perspectives not just the ones that we always hear but really

[2:56:24] making sure that we were trying to get a broad cross-section of the community as a part of that um as Ryan said there was

[2:56:31] also extensive Outreach to the business and building owners themselves um really wanting to understand their perspective

[2:56:38] on the site um we were asked you know as a part of this you know kind of where are these

[2:56:44] comments coming from there was you know some concern in the community around um ideas being pushed from outside the

[2:56:50] community or other things like that we weren't able to um track that throughout the entire course of the project but we

[2:56:56] did track it on some of our online engagement and you can see I think this map is actually fairly representative of

[2:57:02] most of the feedback that we were getting was from kind of the resen park and Parkwood NES areas but there was

[2:57:08] some folks coming from broader parts of the community um and many of the business owners obviously lived in in

[2:57:14] other areas of the community or even outside of Edina as well um we started off really wanting to

[2:57:20] understand what people loved about the place already and using that as something that we could build off of so

[2:57:25] we asked initial questions that we really trying to get to that um nature Recreation and the trails were clear in

[2:57:33] a way the main thing that people said that they loved about the area um and that that was something that was really

[2:57:39] really important to them we also heard about the general Peaceable quiet um some of the low dens lower density

[2:57:45] nature of some of the surrounding areas as keep components as well we also asked

[2:57:50] what people thought that we needed more of um in the future LOL London daring needs um restaurant and grocery small

[2:57:57] scale um Community serving retail um people told us a lot the London shops

[2:58:03] which are right there um on the southern side of the road were something that people liked a lot and said that's

[2:58:09] actually a good template for something that we would like to see more of in this area we heard people talking about

[2:58:15] desire for more housing we also heard people talk about the desire for there not to be more housing so there were

[2:58:20] definitely um opinions in both directions there um but in general some of those retail and key areas were

[2:58:25] things that were really put forward um out of the initial engagement we started to develop some key themes around some

[2:58:32] of the things that people were really talking a lot about the connection to Nature um the desire to have access to

[2:58:38] restaurants small businesses um looking at what types of housing opportunities

[2:58:43] um might be uh possible on the site um things around safety and Mobility um and

[2:58:48] then I there was a strong through line throughout the process of community members wanting to make sure that they

[2:58:54] continue to have opportunities to hear their voice heard as things move forward so using that as a jumping off point we

[2:59:01] developed Community priorities in these six key areas um and um worked with our

[2:59:06] working group to establish a vision statement in 2040 the Lincoln londonairy

[2:59:11] area will be a welcoming gateway to Western Idina there will be shops restaurants homes and jobs all in a

[2:59:17] natural setting along 9 M Creek it will be thoughtfully and sustainably designed blending eco-friendly amenities with

[2:59:22] natural beauty the area will be easy to get to and move around in with bike lines and trails walking paths bus stops

[2:59:28] and carefully integrated parking the Lincoln and London area will be a great place to live work and gather fostering

[2:59:34] community and encouraging people to use trails and Gathering spaces and bu building from that we

[2:59:40] actually developed a sort of goal statement around each of these priorities well as well so promoting a balanced approach to housing that

[2:59:46] respects Community needs and preferences say encouraging a diverse array of local businesses that support the community's

[2:59:51] needs creating vibrant spaces that encourage and Foster community and inclusivity preserving and enhancing the

[2:59:58] natural environment prioritizing sustainability and outdoor activities ensuring safe accessible and efficient

[3:00:03] movement for all and then Foster a forward-thinking approach to development that involves the community so one of the biggest

[3:00:11] constraints on this whole process and I'm sure as pent Commissioners you all are aware of this is the issues relating

[3:00:17] to sewer capacity and so as we were developing this Community Vision we also wanted to be realistic about both what

[3:00:23] the market conditions were but also what are the actual conditions for being able to build in this area and that was one

[3:00:30] of the key drivers um the map that you see here shows the area that within e

[3:00:36] that has a um constraint on its sewage capacity and you can see that our study

[3:00:43] area which is outlined in black is only actually a very small portion of the area with the those sewer constraints so

[3:00:50] the current situation that we were operating under is that the sewage capacity is basically nearly fully utilized within this entire Zone which

[3:00:58] means that for the most part any new development that would happen there would need to um utilize some sort of

[3:01:06] capacity shift on site in other words if you took down a building with eight toilets you could put up a new building with eight toilets or something along

[3:01:12] those same lines but actually drastically increasing or decreasing that would would have major changes so

[3:01:19] in thinking about future opportunities we had to think about what were opportunities for capacity shift sunsight and then in the longer term

[3:01:26] there are these two other options of connecting to minona system or upgrading Edina system however those are big

[3:01:33] enough picture questions that they really need to be addressed in your next comp plan cycle it's not something that we doing this particular study could

[3:01:40] fully address in order to really get to that so the way that we ended up really developing the plan with these sort of

[3:01:47] constraints in mind was the idea that there's a number of types of recommendations that we can make today

[3:01:52] in terms of improving the public realm in terms of connecting some of the natural features in terms of um wayf

[3:02:00] finding in terms of Art in terms of public space and minor changes in some of the land use on the site that can be

[3:02:06] accommodated given the current constraints and then there's an opportunity should this be resolved in

[3:02:13] your next comp cycle and the decision be made to upgrade that system to actually be able to allow more development within

[3:02:19] this whole Orange area um what types of recommendations would we make then at

[3:02:24] that point um that would point us towards that type of future development as well and so the plan sort of breaks

[3:02:30] itself into a little bit in terms of what are the short-term improvements that are really going to um lead us

[3:02:37] towards some of those future opportunities and then how do we set up for the future um in terms of the um

[3:02:44] longer term opportunities so as I said the current Capac capacity minor changes to land use establishing the policies

[3:02:51] and the design guidelines and all of the things that would guide fut future development Mobility improvements

[3:02:56] beautification improvements and then in the long term looking at some of those potential major changes to circulation

[3:03:02] and land use so I won't go through each one of the recommendations here um it would be

[3:03:09] it would be here quite a while um but I'm happy to go in more detail um this

[3:03:14] map sort of summarizes the current capacity recommendations so you can see um despite the limitations there are a

[3:03:20] number of things we can do um this focuses on issues of making sure that

[3:03:25] we're establishing design guidelines that we are looking to attract more neighborhood scale development looking

[3:03:31] at improvements to the trail connections to the new light rail um improvements to

[3:03:37] intersections um beautification Greening um all of those sorts of elements within

[3:03:42] that area and then in the long term looking at um some opport unities for um

[3:03:49] example on the children's site um thinking about master planning mixed use

[3:03:54] development on the site what would that look like that's already a site that's actually zoned for larger scale mixed use development so if it's not working

[3:04:02] as an office anymore what would that look like looking at um some of the other Redevelopment opportunities that

[3:04:08] could come with time as well as thinking about larger changes in the circulation pattern in order to be able to make that

[3:04:14] development really work on site so that's a very quick overview um but

[3:04:21] we're happy to dive into more of the details with you as well um and um yeah

[3:04:26] excited to to chat with you a little bit about this thank you very

[3:04:31] much awesome know a lot about this process as Commissioners have kept us well informed

[3:04:38] throughout it um commissioner Miranda in particular would give us updates after

[3:04:43] most uh Planning Commission meetings as well as Ryan or Mir weather and I would

[3:04:51] say there's been some creative improvements to the process that you guys have all done together that will

[3:04:57] serve as a good uh resource for other small area plan developments any questions from

[3:05:04] Commissioners right now yeah all right commissioner Smith sure great you know I love how you

[3:05:12] were really quick and really clear with this and and thank you so much for

[3:05:17] getting this out first off great big kudos to the whole team for for for working on this it it was a lot of work

[3:05:25] I could tell a lot of community engagement which was awesome and um the production of something that that really

[3:05:32] is very thoughtful right um just two questions for me for now um one is just

[3:05:39] on the setup of the working team so just curious right like when we when we

[3:05:45] decide to select out of all the app applicants who would be on this working team you know as we think about the

[3:05:52] future and we start working on other plans like just share with us a little bit of your process that you went

[3:05:59] through how did you select them what was the criteria how did you narrow it down to the six is the first question and

[3:06:06] then the second question is on the circulation piece right so in this

[3:06:13] document circulation seems to be part of the long-term solution which is

[3:06:19] dependent on partly I guess dependent on the sewer capacity question that we have

[3:06:24] to resolve but I'm trying to connect circulation to se capacity and I'm not

[3:06:30] seeing the connection super clearly so if you just share why is it in that part of the

[3:06:36] future State and what does it actually mean sure I can definitely talk about that but I'll let Maryweather first talk

[3:06:41] about the working group so the working group was all behind the scenes before we had selected

[3:06:48] men but the Lou and Ryan and I um selected the applications we we received

[3:06:55] the 40 applications they submitted them to city the city sent them to us and we independently kind of went through all

[3:07:03] of them and read them and we all presented each other with our piics and um of those picks we all we

[3:07:11] had four people in common and then it was just kind of picking the last two we wanted to make sure

[3:07:18] and we all wanted different things I wanted to have renters on there I wanted to have Realtors on there none of that

[3:07:24] happened um but we wanted to make sure that there were like I said there were

[3:07:30] younger people people had been there for a while people who are business owners um people that are new new to the

[3:07:39] community or people that have had experience with the city and people that haven't had experience with the city so

[3:07:45] we wanted to kind of get a range of opinions and a a range of people um so

[3:07:51] we just had to work through that process and the majority of the people we picked

[3:07:58] were um already we already matched on most of

[3:08:03] them is that good thank you that's great great and to speak to the circulation

[3:08:10] and I'll just go back to that map um you know most of the circulation

[3:08:16] improvements that we draw here the the main things that you see here are really looking at ways to

[3:08:23] draw more traffic away from the existing neighborhood closer to the highway kind of putting cars a little bit more on

[3:08:30] that side um as well as providing access to new development and so the reason that it's really in the long term isn't

[3:08:37] that you couldn't do those improvements in the short term but that financially they wouldn't make sense to do unless

[3:08:43] you were doing the development associated with it so they they really you know are sort of attached and and

[3:08:50] even from a funding standpoint in most cases probably you would actually have the developer do the Improvement and

[3:08:55] then dedicate the roadways back to the city at that point and so that's why those have been sort of placed with the

[3:09:03] sort of larger scale Redevelopment that happens later on there are in the short term intersection improvements and other

[3:09:10] types of improvements that would be um helpful to mobility in the shorter term

[3:09:16] as well gotcha Mak sense thanks

[3:09:21] y any other

[3:09:29] questions thanks for the presentation I like to especially

[3:09:34] recognize the team for the community engagement plan I think it's very clever and effective and I particularly

[3:09:42] admired how you didn't get quite what you wanted or quite the population that you wanted to

[3:09:47] so change the plan that was fantastic um and I think a a good lesson for us all

[3:09:54] for the future just a couple things I couldn't tell particularly in the longterm part of it what the attitude of

[3:10:01] the plan is towards industrial what couldn't quite tell whether you wanted it or not yeah we

[3:10:08] frankly left that intentionally vague with the knowledge that when we jump 10 to 15 years from now the market

[3:10:15] conditions are likely to be completely different than what we are and that you will likely need quite a bit of

[3:10:21] flexibility in thinking about what type of development ultimately might happen

[3:10:26] in that area um from the interviews that we did we had users on site who owned their

[3:10:36] buildings had been there a long time because they had owned their buildings it was not adding costs to them to stay

[3:10:43] there and we're pretty happy with their facilities from the standpoint of how the cost was affecting their buildings

[3:10:50] and so on at the same time looking at some of the market conditions research that we did we know that this type of

[3:10:57] area for light industrial has been declining in terms of its sort of

[3:11:03] rentability we also were hearing from the community that there was some idea that there was a desire to

[3:11:10] prioritize tax base as a key component and the light industrial buildings in

[3:11:16] the area where the worst performing in terms of the tax per square foot that they were providing back to the city um

[3:11:22] currently so there's there's sort of pros and cons in both directions and ultimately we do think that some of that

[3:11:28] is going to be driven by individual building owners and and what types of opportunity come to them you know when

[3:11:35] the land is sailable based on the capacity issues most of the land is you

[3:11:41] know frankly not particularly salable for other um uses at this point because

[3:11:46] of the those um constraints um so you might see a variety of things um we did

[3:11:54] also talk quite a bit and this is something that hopefully will come up as you guys are working on resolving your code the idea of um maker spaces as a

[3:12:04] kind of new territory within your code that is not currently covered that might allow for some forms of residential and

[3:12:11] light industrial to coexist in a little bit closer fashion than they do within the current code that something that

[3:12:18] some of your um adjacent communities have have started to develop within their code as well um so there's kind of

[3:12:24] a variety of different directions but frankly we left some of that land use Direction relatively vague in the long

[3:12:30] term just because it does need to be reactive to the market conditions at the time that this is accomplished which is

[3:12:35] probably at very best case a decade out okay thanks um kind of related to that

[3:12:41] question earlier in the short-term section there's uh

[3:12:47] uh some guidance on building form one of them is 130 foot

[3:12:54] length it's hard for me to eyeball but in the long term do does the new

[3:13:00] development conform to 130 foot length the large the individual buildings so on

[3:13:06] the map that we're looking at right here the individual buildings do the um

[3:13:11] length of those tow houses that you see there that is slightly longer than 150

[3:13:16] ft with the idea that those are actually individual buildings um I on the Block face okay but the other ones are more or

[3:13:23] less a perly SC for we we really tried to take the guidelines from the short term and then apply them to how we drew

[3:13:29] the long term um so that you would get you know of course any developer is going to come back and and give you a

[3:13:34] whole new set of ideas that they want to but we wanted it to to fit within the constraints that we were putting on it

[3:13:40] okay just a couple more on S9 uh had to do with storm waterer management

[3:13:47] um is there so my family lives on um minha

[3:13:52] Creek or close to it is there a specific problem with storm water management in

[3:13:58] this area that's different than the storm water management Problem by my house the one of the main things is that

[3:14:06] most of the development pre-existed the existing storm water ordinances and so

[3:14:12] you have a lot of situations where for example if you look at the office building that's on the far Northern

[3:14:18] portion their whole um parking lot is graded toward essentially to just take

[3:14:23] the runoff straight into the creek at the time that was you know what they thought they should do so the the really

[3:14:29] working to kind of reestablish and re just strengthen those guidelines as well

[3:14:36] as looking at opportunities for you know potentially smaller scale grants or other things to try and take care of

[3:14:41] some of those Edge conditions that right now are actually not very good is was sort of the int of the recommendation

[3:14:50] okay the same is true on the the children's site their parking also essentially just drains to um straight

[3:14:57] into the Wetland there okay so there may or may not be something in the D Capital

[3:15:03] plan already or did we look there probably wouldn't be on private land to

[3:15:08] do that it would probably need to be something that would be done in Partnership but there are examples of Grants and things like that that other

[3:15:15] cities have done in order to improve some of those Edge conditions and so there are there are some

[3:15:21] opportunities there um to look at at some of those opportunities with some of those private land owners there's

[3:15:26] nothing without them doing something that pulls a new permit there's probably not any leverage that the city has other

[3:15:32] than going to them and asking them nicely if they can do it at this point okay great and one more thing on L4 so

[3:15:38] that was the Green Space um in the future MH the description didn't quite fit for

[3:15:45] me it didn't seem like those areas were really buff was the quote was buffering residential uses from retail industrial

[3:15:54] commercial not to say that they're bad things but it just they didn't seem like that's the purpose they were serving is it is it really just preserving Green

[3:16:00] Space within the area is that what we're trying to do there well in in some cases so if you see like The L4 here that's

[3:16:07] labeled in between where we have kind of the tow houses and what are more drawn as the types of commercial buildings you

[3:16:12] can see that there is kind of a larger sort of green space that is kind of a established kind of you know between the

[3:16:19] the more residential uses and so on then there's also you know kind of showing something similar with that label down

[3:16:26] next to the Redevelopment of the children's site as well um so yes I I I

[3:16:31] would say that you know it's it's it's about in some cases sort of trying to extend some of the green space that

[3:16:38] really surrounds the creek and the trail in other areas kind to kind of offset a little bit the maybe heavier commercial

[3:16:45] uses from the um the new residential that's being introduced okay and just I know this is

[3:16:53] probably hard to hard to Benchmark but uh the selection a neighborhood note I think uh

[3:17:00] went up to 60 dwelling units per acre so H how when we look at this

[3:17:06] drawing that you've got on the screen now what should we think that's close to 60 half some other number I mean is this

[3:17:13] the kind of density maximum that you're envisioning or is it somewhere in the

[3:17:18] middle if that makes sense yeah so with with the changes to the Future land use map we tried to find you know what would

[3:17:27] um kind of match the guidance in the small area plan so um in the small area plan it talks about um you know building

[3:17:35] Heights generally not exceeding four stories building coverage of about 30% um and so a range of you know 10 to

[3:17:44] 60 felt about right um in kind of looking at other developments um past projects that have

[3:17:51] been approved and what those what their density is um kind of based on the guidance that's called for here in this

[3:17:58] area that that range felt appropriate that's the existing range for for neighborhood node that's already in the

[3:18:03] complant so we could change it but we just applied kind of what's already there to make it fit with this we

[3:18:09] wouldn't happen to know what the dwelling units per acre is for loaden would you it's 36 nice okay yeah and

[3:18:18] this this drawing is probably roughly drawn around that same range okay yeah

[3:18:24] good thank you any other

[3:18:30] questions you got no no real question um thanks for everybody's input on this I I

[3:18:35] did attend some of these meetings early uh early in the development of it um the

[3:18:41] the public hearings and stuff uh I guess my only comment is is this

[3:18:49] um obviously this the sewer issue was a major issue this isn't this is something

[3:18:54] you were handed when you looked at this so you have much to say about it but um

[3:18:59] you know this is just stagnating any creative ideas or or new developments in

[3:19:04] the area and and I'm not saying anything that nobody anybody doesn't know in this room but um yeah I think the city's got

[3:19:11] to take a look at this pretty serious look at this really quick uh I mean it just looking at the map it's roughly a

[3:19:17] sixth maybe a fifth of the city that is without any ability to really expand and

[3:19:24] uh it includes your high school yeah well this I'm guessing the high school took the ma took most of the excess

[3:19:30] capacity that was there when they expanded so um yeah I mean this is

[3:19:35] something obviously we have to look at and it doesn't pertain to this this small area plan and and I'd like to you

[3:19:42] know say you you guys did a really nice job on this so thank you for that

[3:19:52] you okay you know just

[3:19:57] to just a couple questions around the uh capacity so the purple area definitely

[3:20:04] constrained to be removed in 26 28 so I think we're going to upgrade our SE system in then to help bring some relief

[3:20:11] in for those purple areas the orange area

[3:20:17] is um when do we think that would be slated for upgrade or development so

[3:20:23] that that is something that is still to be decided right now there's no plans to do that so um like Zach said at the next

[3:20:31] comprehensive plan would be when we would have to have a conversation about you know the land use within the rest of

[3:20:37] that area to decide how are we going to address it because um engineering has studi it there's there's a couple

[3:20:43] options right like one option is we can connect through motanka potentially um we'd still have to work that out with

[3:20:49] them but that would only provide capacity to the parcels within Lincoln

[3:20:55] London der just north of Londoner so like seven Parcels otherwise the city

[3:21:00] would have to um upgrade the system ourselves to to increase capacity for

[3:21:06] that entire area that's an orange it's much more expensive but it relieves the

[3:21:11] constraint for the entire Orange area so so roughly the process here would be making that decision as a part of the

[3:21:17] next comp plan funding design construction it's it's a long ways

[3:21:23] off gotcha um so just to tie on to what you're saying Addison if we wanted to

[3:21:29] connect into the the minona system that's not going to relieve all of the orange that's just going to relieve just

[3:21:36] the northern part of Lincoln and lere small area PL so that's just that section corre no and and we did we did

[3:21:43] we didn't this was this was not a super super depth analysis but we did look at

[3:21:49] a very basic level what level of development would you actually need to have on those Parcels in order to offset

[3:21:56] the cost of connecting to minetonka and for the number of parcels that would be

[3:22:01] impacted there just there really wasn't a level of development that made any you

[3:22:08] know sense if you know you could get United Healthcare to put their headquarters there maybe but um they're

[3:22:13] not building that kind of stuff right now so um they there just really wasn't a option that if if you're looking at

[3:22:20] just from a dollars and cense standpoint for those Parcels it just wasn't

[3:22:26] there okay there's a slide with the current state future State um if you

[3:22:32] don't mind shifting down here uh no one with an

[3:22:38] image yes right here so I could see the

[3:22:43] top half with the industrial and office in Gray um so even those right like if I

[3:22:51] were to repurpose and I come with a paper Factory that makes I don't know

[3:22:56] you're processing paper and now you have to use more water that might be

[3:23:02] something that you can't even do in that area the the the cost of the

[3:23:08] connection would not be offset in the increase in taxes related to

[3:23:15] really any level of development in that zone unless you were going 20 stories

[3:23:24] of of of fairly expensive residential or something along those lines so it's nothing nothing that's Market supported

[3:23:31] that we were able to see would would offset that cost for that small area it

[3:23:37] it really frankly just it it's going to make more sense as a larger project

[3:23:42] that's taking in a lot more land and and thinking about those opportunities

[3:23:48] Goa so if I wanted to put a building there like a multi-use building I have

[3:23:53] to add a lot more units on it to justify the cost of connecting into the manona system

[3:23:59] exactly okay yeah um if you jump to the other

[3:24:05] Slide the this one or the the one Yep this one here this one okay so I see L1

[3:24:11] is the mixed use development as a future state and L2 is zoned as rezone for

[3:24:20] development um can you just talk more about that L2 and what does that mean does it is it

[3:24:27] mean rezone for mix use development or certain kind of development like is that like a broad statement or is that a

[3:24:33] specific thing yeah so the L1 the difference between the two L1 is currently zoned for mixed use

[3:24:39] development so with the exception of the sewage capacity issue they could do

[3:24:44] Redevelopment there because of the sewage capacity issue they likely wouldn't be able to do Residential on

[3:24:50] that site right now because of the addition to the sewage capacity so that has been kind of separated out because

[3:24:57] it's that's this existing zoning we just wanted to call out we're not changing anything related to it but this once

[3:25:02] this is resolved this is the sort of thing that could happen on here um the L2 the areas that we're talking about in

[3:25:08] terms of rezoning are uh currently zoned at a fairly small scale and the idea

[3:25:14] would be to move that towards a higher density probably mixed use zoning um

[3:25:20] though again we were a little bit vague about that in the study itself in case there is as the code actually gets

[3:25:27] Rewritten some opportunities to include some light industrial or other uses with a part of that as well but the idea

[3:25:34] would be that those would re rezone towards the um larger land use guidance

[3:25:41] that that Addison just talked about

[3:25:48] gotcha okay so if I were to break it down into two parts just so I could wrap

[3:25:53] my head around it if I wanted to put something that's commercially viable in this Northern

[3:26:01] section in this L2 area it would have to be a lot of units to offset the cost for

[3:26:06] connecting into minetonka potentially cuz that's a business decision that the owner would have to figure out else I

[3:26:13] would want to wait until the sewer capacity increases and then I could afford to

[3:26:20] connect with a much smaller unit in the future yes I would say that that

[3:26:26] is I yes okay thank you yeah to be clear that connection though

[3:26:33] the the city could facilitate that connection for those properties to the north sorry just going back to this the

[3:26:40] the difference here is and here actually it's probably easier on this map so the property's north of London Derry Road

[3:26:46] just just just those I think it's seven or eight Parcels there is a possibility that those could Connect into minetonka

[3:26:52] that would cost and I don't want to make up the number right here because I don't remember it off the top of my head but

[3:26:57] that cost x million so for x million we could do more development on these eight

[3:27:02] Parcels the amount of money that we could make off of doing the more development on those eight Parcels would not pay for that connection when we talk

[3:27:10] about the city's connection we're talking about hundreds if not thousands of parcels that have opportunity for

[3:27:17] redevelopment and it costs I meant to say it's like X Plus or 4X you know so

[3:27:24] it's the the I'm just going to make up a number right now and we'll have to we can get these real numbers for you but

[3:27:30] let's say the connection to minona cost 4 million for just those Parcels the

[3:27:36] whole thing cost 16 million for everything so you're offsetting those

[3:27:42] costs much differently with the much larger sort of area if that makes sense but the city could

[3:27:48] coordinate that 4 million one right it wouldn't have to depend on just an individual no but but the city would not

[3:27:57] recap recoup its costs through tax for doing that essentially I understand yeah sometimes

[3:28:05] it's not just the payback with money and sure henan County spend $120 million on

[3:28:10] a library sure they're not getting that back right

[3:28:17] so it yeah there there's a potential for the city sees value in like a stop Gap

[3:28:22] measure to you won't make money off of it or offset it but the it wouldn't

[3:28:29] necessarily need to hinge on one particular developer to pay for it or

[3:28:34] correct like the city yeah that is true okay there there is there is also with

[3:28:40] the connection to minona and again there's a longer report on this but there is some

[3:28:46] concern about how permanent that would be as well um from the minaka side so

[3:28:51] just for what that's worth there can be some

[3:28:59] Redevelopment we talked about previously and that would be you know like for like

[3:29:05] not in terms of like fil the amount of like if there were eight toilets in an

[3:29:11] existing building you could build something with eight toilets now so for example some wanted to purchase a

[3:29:17] property and put in a use that didn't have a lot of people in it that could

[3:29:23] happen so some development could happen but yeah or or Also let's I mean let's

[3:29:29] say there are 22 toilets on all eight of these Parcels someone could knock down all of those buildings and one build one

[3:29:34] new building with 22 toilets to you know what I mean so there there are this is again I'm being a little bit fous with

[3:29:40] this it's a little more complicated than that but it it you could do there are

[3:29:45] ways that you could potentially facilitate development what was really stood out for me that frankly I didn't

[3:29:52] totally understand before this so the existing industrial properties for example um a brewery would be allowed by

[3:29:58] zoning within this area within those properties however because of their

[3:30:04] water usage they actually wouldn't be able to get a permit to operate in this area despite it

[3:30:10] being allowed by zoning right so it it's important to understand that the sewage capacity kind of to some extent kind of

[3:30:17] overrides the existing zoning or even whatever zoning we were if you know if we were to rezone would change towards

[3:30:23] it still has to fit within that existing

[3:30:32] capacity I know I already had my chance but I had one other thing I me meant to mention really quickly

[3:30:38] S12 U this isn't a question so much as a as feedback or a comment I I would have found that section much easier to digest

[3:30:46] if I could tell what was new and what was in already in code because I couldn't really tell

[3:30:52] how I couldn't really tell the scale or the scope of what was being recommended without knowing what's new got for what

[3:30:59] it's worth okay we can definitely take that that comment into consideration

[3:31:16] I kept turning on and off the cord was over the light um anyone else have any

[3:31:23] questions yeah I guess I'd just have a couple comments later um great work

[3:31:29] thank you let's turn it over to public hearing so we'll do it like we did before since

[3:31:35] I have the info right in front of me uh for those tuning in who wouldd like to participate please call the following

[3:31:42] number and it'll pop up on the screen too 312 535

[3:31:48] 8110 enter access code 2861

[3:31:53] 072 3508 password

[3:31:58] 5454 press star three on your keypad when you'd like to get in the cutest speak hopefully this pops up on the

[3:32:05] screen and while we let things catch up for about a minute or so we'll turn it over to those who might be here in

[3:32:12] person that would like to testify you have 3 minutes to do so please come up to either Podium full name address green

[3:32:20] means go red means halt right uh Elliot Howard and I live at 4800 West 62nd

[3:32:28] Street um in it's in the conquered neighborhood um I want to speak like

[3:32:34] everybody else has so far in favor of the Lincoln London Dair small area plan

[3:32:40] my uh primary connection to the area is um cycling I love the 9M Creek um I ride

[3:32:50] it I don't ride it all year round but I three seasons a year I I ride um so I

[3:32:56] ride through that area and some of the things in the short term that are being

[3:33:03] proposed I really feel strongly about and I'm very glad to see in the in the recommendations one has to do with uh

[3:33:10] pedestrian and cycle safety going through some intersections there aren't a lot of them going through there but

[3:33:16] there are a couple that can be dicey and I'm on my own typically and I see sometimes somebody with a couple of kids

[3:33:23] and um that can be a con I think a concern um the other thing that I really

[3:33:30] appreciate is um the addition of benches and potential of maybe a um meeting

[3:33:37] space at the trail head uh is another opportunity for cycling and enjoying

[3:33:42] that area um um more completely um and because I love that um 9M Creek

[3:33:50] Trail um I've come to really appreciate more than before um the creek itself and

[3:33:57] the the the environment around it and so I want to compliment too on um the

[3:34:04] addition of naturalizing um the green space and trying to have um Native

[3:34:10] plantings um to help protect the creek and the uh the land around it

[3:34:18] um I also second thing I want to just talk about very briefly is I also participated in some of the community

[3:34:25] engagement um opportunities I was at the um uh Walnut Park um in July I think for

[3:34:33] the bike bike ride and also um during that time what I loved was seeing people

[3:34:40] come together and opportunity for people just ear in that very early stage to just put on Post-it notes their ideas

[3:34:48] right it was just a simple way and it was fun to see people kind of really thinking it through and how things

[3:34:54] really added started to add up and pile up on on that um on that poster board um

[3:35:00] furthermore when uh going to I think was an open house where use the technology

[3:35:05] where people use their phone to let their opinions be known and show up uh in real time on the screen was another

[3:35:12] great opportunity to see what people are were thinking and I love that especially because there are people who don't like

[3:35:19] to do what I'm doing right now and get up and speak they don't people sometimes don't even want to raise their hand you

[3:35:25] know um they're just an anxious so that was a way for people to weigh in

[3:35:30] anonymously and I'm sure most of the people um uh did do that so I I I think

[3:35:38] and and and all these great ideas came out but I think the thing that's

[3:35:43] exciting tonight is so many of the things that I saw in a Post-It note I heard about months ago are now in the

[3:35:50] plan and that speaks to the community involvement it also speaks to the

[3:35:55] process that you used and I know people have referenced that so the red light is

[3:36:00] on it's bedtime I'll I I think I'll stop there except to say one more thing if I

[3:36:05] could is that is simply that with the longer range plan um I think small area

[3:36:11] plans um are going to need to be places where there is some consideration for

[3:36:17] different kinds of housing maybe mixed income housing um uh more affordable

[3:36:23] opportunities even attainable housing so I'm excited to think that might be

[3:36:28] something that comes down the road so um uh compliments to the community for

[3:36:34] their input and to the um folks that um organized all of this work so thank you

[3:36:41] thank you very much especially for sticking it out with us woo I might leave before the comments yeah

[3:36:47] you got it go home in a good way uh anyways anyone else here

[3:36:56] for no doesn't look like it so tune in to online is anyone in the queue nobody

[3:37:01] everyone's asleep sa to proceed all right uh welcome a motion to close a

[3:37:07] public hearing motion and close the public hearing second all those in favor say I

[3:37:13] I so move public hearing closed take it back to the Planning Commission for just

[3:37:19] deliberation comments uh feedback recommendations or emotion yeah

[3:37:24] commissioner hman um it's late so I won't uh belabor my uh thanks and

[3:37:30] appreciation and um uh just acknowledgement of the the

[3:37:36] great process that you guys set up for the small area plans um for the future so great job there

[3:37:43] what I'm struggling with and why I won't vote to support this small area plan is

[3:37:50] because I think we need to go back to the purpose of what is a small area plan

[3:37:56] this area of change was identified as far back as 2008 the sewer capacity issue was known

[3:38:05] and well understood as far back as 2016 and I take a little bit of uh

[3:38:11] grievance with the comment that the purpose of this was because there was no plan and so we needed to have a small

[3:38:18] area plan to to to discuss it there is a plan there's our comp plan and this

[3:38:25] small area plan in particular was a reaction to a project that came forth

[3:38:31] that uh as a market rate apartment building pre pandemic had very favorable

[3:38:38] support from planning in the city council and post pandemic when it came forward as an affordable housing project

[3:38:44] we discovered a lot of nism and it's really important to have

[3:38:51] visions and to plan proactively but this was very much a reaction to something

[3:38:58] that came before us and I think it we're struggling here and I think the council

[3:39:03] is struggling and the public is struggling with how do we look at things

[3:39:09] that present themselves that aren't exactly what was there before and or

[3:39:14] what the comp directs you know Kevin key site there was all sorts of conversation

[3:39:20] well it is it's been zoned for 60 years uh as as medium density residential but

[3:39:26] nobody really wants that and so everything that's coming before council is the use of what it is currently but

[3:39:32] nobody really wants that either and it just it feels like we spend a lot of

[3:39:37] money to hire great Consultants to do these small area plans

[3:39:42] but we can't plan when we have a sewer capacity issue so there their hands were

[3:39:48] sort of tied behind their backs in many ways and and again if we are to have a plan and be

[3:39:57] proactive and be Visionary then we have to be okay if something comes before us

[3:40:03] and saying no that it doesn't go with the comp plan or having the humility I

[3:40:09] guess to say that does go with the comp plan and my why I might not like it the

[3:40:14] people who developed the comp plan however many years ago the one that's currently in effect this was their

[3:40:20] vision for the city and when it's time for the next C plan I can put forth what

[3:40:26] my opinion is on what my vision for the city is and I just think we really need

[3:40:31] to take a hard look as our you know you were talking about the esoteric sort of

[3:40:36] best use for the library parcel I really feel strongly that our job here is to

[3:40:42] think about the best use that addresses land for all of a Dina

[3:40:48] not Vision plans that may not be achievable because of sewer capacity or

[3:40:53] market conditions or desire for the kind of development we might want like we we just I think we got to

[3:41:02] pick a lane because it's feeling very hypocritical that we complain about wasteful spending in the city and then

[3:41:07] we have a consultant to have a small area plan that isn't planning it's

[3:41:12] reactionary and they can't really plan anything because we have a sewer capacity issue like it it just is

[3:41:18] feeling like we're waffling a lot internally as c as Citizens as Planning

[3:41:24] Commission members as city council and I just um I'm struggling with it a lot so

[3:41:31] in particular because of this small area plan and what brought it about I'm not going to support that it goes forward I

[3:41:37] don't want that to be interpreted in any way um as a as a statement against the

[3:41:44] plan I thought it was a fabulous plan I thought your ambiguity intentionally to not lock anything in was great but if we

[3:41:52] don't like little zoning variances where we amend the comp plan for one-off cases the small area plan is amending the comp

[3:41:59] plan too and it just it I I think we got to pick a lane so that's where I am but

[3:42:05] you guys did a great job you got any comments coming down or

[3:42:12] you want to save them just because you guys worked on it

[3:42:19] well I think the old comment and we've talked about this before is um you know

[3:42:25] this is the Public Square this is you know Aristotle this is our sitting there

[3:42:30] in the town square and talking to each other about and not everybody knows

[3:42:36] everything at the same time and um and I appreciate everything you you said about

[3:42:44] because I thought the solheim project was a good

[3:42:49] project and um I really appreciated what they did um um but I think we always

[3:42:56] have to kind of be in that Public Square and we always have to be in that education process and part of the reason

[3:43:02] I'm here is to kind of learn more you know even though I spent 40 years in the

[3:43:08] um architecture business spending more time like learning about planning and

[3:43:13] zoning Beyond just kind of residential zoning so this is a learning process for me and it's learning about being in

[3:43:20] these conversations with other people um and I felt like the residents we pulled

[3:43:28] together and the working group we pulled together were well connected within the community and it is about it is

[3:43:36] about about continuing to be in that education space

[3:43:47] um not too much I I mean you know I guess over the overall commentary about

[3:43:52] the small area plan process um you know regardless of where

[3:43:58] of how we came to this specific small area plan today um it is where we're at I

[3:44:05] mean can't go backwards in time um I see the small area plan process here and in

[3:44:11] other locations as a very valuable toolkit or very valuable tool tool and our tool toolkit to respond to change in

[3:44:18] our community um the comp plan doesn't go through iterations

[3:44:23] probably quick enough as we as we go forward as a community um and so these provide really I can hyper local

[3:44:30] opportunities for our residents and neighbors to give input um on what they want to see you

[3:44:38] know the property next door to their house um and you know it's part of a

[3:44:43] continuous Improvement plan right so I think I think it's the comp plan is one piece of a p a larger puzzle an

[3:44:49] important piece um obviously it's not like I said it doesn't get updated probably frequently enough and it

[3:44:55] probably never will because our Market's changing faster and faster um and this is a way that we can respond to that um

[3:45:04] will we get it right every time probably not will the city follow all of our small area plans all the time definitely

[3:45:09] not um but I think we need to keep engaging in this type of process

[3:45:15] um really because you know it gives you know opportunities to our residents to engage

[3:45:22] beyond the traditional means of Planning Commission meetings emails to their City Council

[3:45:28] Members they can come and do an interactive survey a quiz right putting

[3:45:33] marbles in a jar and say I like this idea biking over with their kids and putting Post-it notes on a board right

[3:45:39] and so this there's value to this process um and I I want to make sure we don't lose that and do loose sight of

[3:45:51] that yeah I would agree that there is certainly a value in connecting with the community and having Community

[3:45:58] input um showing that we're responding to their concerns right um although I

[3:46:04] totally get your points as well um my question here would be if

[3:46:10] solheim were to come back today if this gets approved and they come back right

[3:46:16] after that approval with their same development would it be possible for them to build that same no

[3:46:23] item no they solved the steart problem it's not possible because their financing was was a funding cycle they

[3:46:30] had to give their money back so they've already spent the you know close to probably a million dollars in

[3:46:36] predevelopment costs to get to where they were they got the 9% tax credits and then we put a stop on it so if I

[3:46:43] would to frame it this way if they had their own money could they build that affordable use uh building that they

[3:46:51] wanted to with this plan that it's written today if they didn't have any money from the city the city didn't help them they

[3:46:57] connected to motanka does this prevent them from doing that no okay that's all I

[3:47:08] had I would like to express my deep appreciation to everybody that worked on

[3:47:14] this I think it was um uh an immense amount of work and um with that I need

[3:47:21] to recuse myself because I'm a part owner of a lot of the property in that area so I'll abstain from the

[3:47:28] vote know that there was that

[3:47:35] uh one of the things I really love about this group is that I mean I spent actually more time than I care to admit

[3:47:43] reading this small area plan plan over the last few days and never once did I

[3:47:48] think of what commissioner Hanan just said it never occurred to me and um

[3:47:54] that's what's so great about this group we have a lot of different perspectives and different ways of looking at things

[3:47:59] and um that's wonderful um I want to I want to congratulate the

[3:48:07] group and thank the group for the work I know it's tremendous amount of work uh I support the

[3:48:12] plan I feel like I feel like like um

[3:48:17] it's an excellent plan for where we are today but a lot of the work is still ahead of us which is which is fine I we

[3:48:23] we do what we can with what we have available today but I feel like we've

[3:48:30] um this sounds like a majority of it's not we kicked the can down the road on a few issues that we're going to have to sort out sooner or later but we did the

[3:48:37] best we could uh today and that's and that's fantastic so great job to the

[3:48:42] team and thanks for for your support yeah I just reiterate that kudos

[3:48:50] to the team the work on this report was was fantastic um it's kind of you know

[3:48:56] cart before the horse or however you want to phrase it um at some point we got to move forward here and I mean you

[3:49:03] mentioned somebody mentioned I think you did the Kevin key site I mean that's in this Orange area too so I don't know how

[3:49:10] you know that development going from a what however many um sacer whac units

[3:49:17] were in that and what they were going to go to with a restaurant but uh um that

[3:49:22] might have been difficult too so uh you know I think the biggest takeaway here is that we need to encourage the city

[3:49:30] and obviously we're going to go through the the uh comp plan in a few years and whatnot but we need to encourage them to

[3:49:36] move forward on this expansion I mean there's a lot of carts out there that aren't aren't being fulfilled right now

[3:49:41] because um laar lot of residents that probably can't and you know if a whole

[3:49:47] bunch of people decide to tear down and do do new homes you they're not going from a one bath to a one bath I mean

[3:49:52] they're going to go to a a larger facility so we're just stagnating a lot of development opportunity and you know

[3:49:59] folks that want to bring in um affordable housing market rate housing whatever it might be we're just not

[3:50:05] going to be able to do that in this in this area and and again this area the gold piece I'm talking about is either a

[3:50:11] fifth or a sixth of the city is a pretty big portion of the city and just you know whether it was neglected or however

[3:50:16] it happened we need to get moving on that it's my only comment thank

[3:50:22] you great man I got a few comments U like everyone said first and foremost

[3:50:28] thank you to the team represented by the commission consultant and all the residents out there who participated

[3:50:35] I've had the honor of serving as a chair to a small area plan and it's a lot of work but it's it's very gratifying to

[3:50:42] see the community come together work through the tension of

[3:50:47] compromise um so it's been interesting to see how that compromise has made its wayway into the plan and how it it seems

[3:50:55] like the short versus long-term thing kind of documents that to me as well um

[3:51:01] regarding process I I Echo what commissioner hunman mentioned and just

[3:51:07] for some context you know the the commission wanted to put on their work plan studying areas of potential change

[3:51:14] you know incorporating this into the mix the council put that on hold and then in

[3:51:20] reaction to this and against our recommendation of not bombarding our work plan small area plan was added to

[3:51:27] it however once it is added to it you know it's it's our duty to carry that

[3:51:33] out and sometimes it's for good reason sometimes it's not um the Grand View

[3:51:38] development framework for instance was a reaction to the city

[3:51:45] potentially selling their site and redeveloping it in a non-ideal way so like a good reaction to PR prompt the

[3:51:56] brakes it's referenced but differently um but for instance that that particular

[3:52:03] thing drummed up support and so to get everyone together you know this is the task this is what we got to do um

[3:52:11] although it wasn't ideal in its origin the output of it is worthwhile and

[3:52:17] important and I mean kind of just like the library as I see it um there's some

[3:52:23] n ideal aspects but at some point it's very evident the ship has sailed and

[3:52:28] this is our charge and I feel like uh the charge was led well and there's a great output behind it couple of the

[3:52:36] comments just from seeing um 44th in France small area plan that we approved

[3:52:42] a long time ago that I was a part of when first joined the commission um one thing that I always look to at all of

[3:52:50] this is the implementation stage and what is

[3:52:56] comprised in it because to me it's the most important part of these and I've

[3:53:02] watched 44th in France and other small airplanes not really hit their stride or be fulfilled in the way that they could

[3:53:09] be because the implementation phase wasn't

[3:53:14] let's say prioritized properly uh for instance in in our in that plan the

[3:53:20] Lynch pin was kind of a a collective parking behind all of the buildings and

[3:53:27] it's very complex challenging to make that happen but if that doesn't happen pretty much most of the plan couldn't

[3:53:35] happen and I don't think we could EMP we didn't emphasize emphasize that enough

[3:53:41] and I look through here and I know the super capaity emphasized but I feel like it should be the first page the whole

[3:53:48] page of address sewer capacity exclamation mark and like because

[3:53:53] without that it's not much of a Redevelopment

[3:53:59] and at least you have you're aware of what it could be but you're leaving so much on the table for so many things

[3:54:06] down the line um and I think as long as the council's aware of that and as long

[3:54:11] as the people who are involved with this stay connected to the city over the next

[3:54:17] 5 10 years keep checking on that Su capacity um it probably took 5 years for

[3:54:24] the city to start doing something with the 44th in France small area plan parking situation so stay on it we could

[3:54:32] write it all we want but it really will rest on the shoulders of people who want to see the plan happen

[3:54:40] so I'm a I'm totally a fan of how it is all shaken out I would just say the

[3:54:47] implementation is going to be key with this and the Sue capacity is like the number one focal point in my opinion to

[3:54:56] uh see this to its fullest that's all I

[3:55:03] got any other comments any uh motions

[3:55:15] we can second silence uh let's

[3:55:21] see where did it go here uh motion to recommend that the city council

[3:55:26] authorize staff to submit the Lincoln and londondary small area plan to the Met Council for review and an amendment

[3:55:34] to the comprehensive plan second so a roll call

[3:55:42] vote commissioner Nelson hi commissioner Aly hi commissioner Padia abstain

[3:55:48] commissioner Smith hi commissioner day I

[3:55:54] commissioner felt I commissioner hanaman nay chair Bennett I so motion carries

[3:56:03] this uh I guess congratulations to everyone involved in the process and moving it forward to the Met

[3:56:12] Council all right right

[3:56:18] so keep kicking butt everybody all right so now we're on we're we're in the final stretch here home stretch so chair and

[3:56:26] member comments um I'll kick this off uh and then open it to others but as we

[3:56:32] started the meeting to welcome commissioner Nelson and with commissioner Miranda rolling off uh

[3:56:37] commissioner Miranda Miranda oh going to miss him uh he

[3:56:44] served as a vice chair and I've been thinking about this so my third term

[3:56:51] starts but technically I filled the vacated term so I've almost served nine years on the Planning Commission and I

[3:56:57] don't have the intent to serve out as chair till the very end because I have the opportunity to not have to do that

[3:57:05] and I've I've been a part of other groups where there's a past chair past president type of role and as I Look To

[3:57:13] The Future here um my plan is to one year from now step aside

[3:57:20] so in in so then I can kind of keep and keep on and provide some you know

[3:57:26] Clarity and wisdom for others and fill in one needed but with that as we think

[3:57:33] of who to nominate for the vice chair and then who might come after the Vice chair in a year um I put that interest

[3:57:40] out there for the last 3 months or so and there's been two Commissioners who've kind of stepped forward and we've

[3:57:47] had some conversations and discussions and out of that I would you know

[3:57:54] recommend uh commissioner Aly to take the charge as Vice chair um knowing that

[3:58:00] commissioner Smith was very interested too um but just thinking ahead as we

[3:58:06] think of process and transitions um I'd just recommend you know a year from now

[3:58:11] unless something drastic changes um to keep in mind commissioner Smith for a

[3:58:16] vice chair when I plan to step back into just a commissioner role and we can make

[3:58:25] that motion tonight as Carrie mentioned or do we have to we discuss it and now it's public knowledge and we got to wait

[3:58:32] what um yeah so annually we have to hold election of officers for chair Vice

[3:58:38] chair and secretary so it wasn't on the agenda um you could add it to the agenda

[3:58:46] tonight and hold those elections or we could do it at at your next meeting when

[3:58:52] is the is the next meeting planned early April March 26 oh it is March okay all

[3:58:58] right so just so everyone knows there's some context to the I guess conversations and I I just offer right

[3:59:05] now if commissioner El and commissioner Smith would like to just speak about that I know we've talked about it and if

[3:59:11] you want to just express your interest and maybe we can make it go smooth next

[3:59:17] time too sure just a couple minutes I mean I don't I Jimmy and I were talking about this a few days ago I don't have

[3:59:23] any particular agenda which is lucky because we all share equal influence on the agenda and if the city council sets

[3:59:31] the agenda so that's not that's not that's not what I'm interested in I do

[3:59:36] have um the it it's mostly an as I understand it Jimmy knows better than I

[3:59:42] of course but an or organizing and a process facilitation job and I've got the time and energy and interest and

[3:59:49] capacity to do it so I'd love it to do it that's about all there is to

[3:59:57] it yeah for me too was just really you know stepping in and supporting the the

[4:00:03] Planning Commission I think the work that we do here is really meaningful and valuable and I like hanging out with

[4:00:08] with you guys um but then when I heard uh commissioner Aly was interested I was

[4:00:14] very interest excited about that because I think he's great and so I think he's

[4:00:19] in a really good spot to be Vice chair and you know maybe down the road we could start looking at I could start you

[4:00:25] know potentially looking at a vice chair when he becomes chair if that's still open but it's really just to support the

[4:00:31] Planning Commission I love the work I love engaging with residents and the people and working on projects so it's

[4:00:37] just excitement for the work figure is worth sharing those conversations B just being transparent

[4:00:44] about it um cuz typically it ends where like when I'm done with my term it's

[4:00:50] like cut clean and then then the handoff happens so just want to offer something

[4:00:56] different out there um any other chair member comments I said I said one thing real

[4:01:04] quick um just I wanted to share my thoughts quick on commissioner Miranda

[4:01:09] because we were talking about that earlier and I figured it'd be better to just wait till the end um you know I

[4:01:15] wish he was here tonight um but in his absence you know I wanted to say that you know that him and

[4:01:22] I though we disagreed um and sometimes you know and sometimes passionately that despite

[4:01:29] those differences that we might have had you know outside of meetings when the meeting ended he was always very friendly and amicable um and I

[4:01:36] appreciated that and respected that um and I'll I'll honestly I'll miss the opportunities that he gave me to

[4:01:42] question my line of thinking um maybe not change my mind but make sure I

[4:01:47] consider the alternative um and I thought he was a great voice for that so

[4:01:53] yeah thanks for sharing that just a couple points uh love to

[4:02:01] share um so just want to plug a couple opportunities if folks are interested there's the Humphrey policy fellows um

[4:02:08] I'm a alumni of the Humphrey policy fellows program um I actually got intr

[4:02:13] used to that by uh Kate agu who's on the city council um it's a great program if

[4:02:19] you're interested in public policy and how it works in city government and how to build connections across different um

[4:02:26] groups of people it's a great education opportunity so I just want to plug that um applications are open now it's a I

[4:02:33] think it's like a 9month program um if you're interested certainly reach out to me send me a note and I can get you guys

[4:02:39] plugged in um the second Point uh so next week

[4:02:45] Tuesday I'll be meeting with some residents on point of France um just to share with them what the Planning

[4:02:50] Commission does folks are just curious about how we operate how we work and so

[4:02:55] I met um some really great Folks at the um City ofina uh Town Hall it was a uh

[4:03:05] state of the city event with the mayor and the superintendent Stacy staniels um

[4:03:11] Stanley and that was a great meeting and I met some folks there and they were just curious about what the commission does so I'm hopefully going to represent

[4:03:17] you guys and share the work that we do and um talk about some of the developments happening in the South D

[4:03:23] area as well and kind of how that came to be um the last item here and I was

[4:03:29] just really curious here but I know whenever uh you know Jimmy talks about

[4:03:36] uh uh you know dialing these numbers he has to call out all these digits is

[4:03:41] there a way that we can make that dialing process easier um I feel like

[4:03:47] all those numbers are so hard to track and so if there's just like a phone number and you just press pound and

[4:03:53] you're in or something that would be nice so it it just make it easier for residents cuz I'm wondering if a lot of

[4:03:59] folks are being bounced back because they have to press so much digits to get in so just something for staff to think

[4:04:06] about um so folks can join the line a lot easier that's it Quincy if you need any

[4:04:13] any help or backup or anything for your meeting um let let us know that's really

[4:04:19] awesome you're doing

[4:04:24] that all right any other chair and member comments I say chair staff nothing for

[4:04:32] me tonight all right so we have a tradition of the final order of business

[4:04:38] and that's adjournment so it'd be up to you to do the motion

[4:04:45] I move that weour the meeting this evening second all those in favor say I

[4:04:50] so moved meeting has been

[4:05:12] adjourned e