I hereby call to order the Roseville City Council meeting for Monday, September 14th, 2026. Mr. City Manager, would you call the role, please? >> Council member Grath, >> here. >> Council member Stron, >> here. Council member Schroeder >> here, >> council member Bower >> here, >> Mayor Row >> here. Uh, and by way of introduction, we have our city attorney, Rachel Tierney, who's on my right at the end of the day, and our affforementioned city manager, Pat Trean, who's on my left at the other end of the DES. We have other staff and guests who will be participating in the meeting, and we'll make introductions of those individuals as uh those agenda items come up. I do want to let you know if you have a cell phone to be sure and either silence it or otherwise assure that it doesn't disrupt the meeting this evening. Um, we do have a set of meeting materials available on the back table underneath the clock by the back door if anybody needs to refer to the materials that we have uh before the council this evening. It is a complete set of everything. Uh, but there is one copy so you have to be nice and share it with each other. Uh, we have extra copies of tonight's agenda also in that same location which are yours to keep and uh keep as a souvenir. No, that's not what I meant. To refer to over the course of the meeting. You can do whatever you want to after the meeting with them. Please, if you're going to get rid of them, recycle them. Uh, and with that, we'll ask folks to stand if you're able for the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right. Next on our agenda is approval of tonight's agenda. And I'll, as always, I'll check with staff first to see if there are any uh changes uh from a staff perspective that need to be made to the agenda this evening. >> Mr. Mayor, staff has no changes to the agenda. >> All right. And then we'll check with council members to see if council members have any changes they would like to make to the agenda this evening or any consent items that council members would like to have removed from the consent agenda for separate consideration. Does not appear to be the case. Uh we'll do a check with members of the public if anybody's here for an item in the consent agenda which is section 10 at the bottom of page primarily at the bottom of page one and a couple items carry over onto page two. Uh those items usually are taken up at the end of the meeting as a single motion without a lot of opportunity for discussion. They're fairly administrative. But if somebody was here this evening and wanted to ask a question or make a comment about one of those items, we can move it earlier in the meeting uh and accommodate that uh that request. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak or ask a question about an item in section 10 of tonight's agenda? >> Does not appear to be the case. Uh that being so then a motion to approve the agenda as presented would be in order. >> Second. >> It's been moved by council member Schroeder, seconded by council member Grath to approve the agenda as presented. Uh any discussion on that motion? >> Hearing none. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I opposed. That passes unanimously. and we have our agenda for this evening. Uh that brings us to our first opportunity for public comment. Uh we do provide opportunities for people to speak to agenda items as they come up on tonight's agenda. Uh we've got a number of items for which people may be here to speak. Uh including some uh property nuisance abatements, a liquor license uh transfer hearing, uh as well as the update on the civic campus design and project development. Um, and so those would be opportunities for people to speak to those items as they come up. But if we do have somebody who wishes to speak to items related to city business that are not on tonight's agenda or items that uh may be of interest to people in the community, uh, this first opportunity at the beginning of our meeting is what that is for. Um, and I would just note too, if you're here to speak to um, aspects of the budget and financing of the uh, city campus project, that is probably most appropriately spoken to during that item as it's discussed by the council. Uh, just as a little heads up for folks that may be here for that item this evening. But is there anyone here for general public comment on non-aggenda items at this time? >> I have something right. And we can move a chair out of the way so you have access to one of the microphones there. >> And we just and just before we begin, I forgot to go through the rules of of public comment. So it'll just take a couple of moments for me to do that. And appreciate your patience with that. Uh the uh rules of the council are that the public comment is limited to three minutes per speaker. You can say a lot in three minutes. And if you aren't able to finish your comments, you can certainly either uh reduce them to writing and provide them to the council as a follow-up or if you happen to have a written copy, you can give it to our city manager who will get a copy to the council. Um we ask that uh comments or questions are directed to the city council. Uh and we may not be able to have a conversation this evening about an issue that's brought up, but certainly if there's something that needs to be followed up on, we can direct staff to provide a follow-up. Uh and we would ask that you begin your comments with your name and either your street or address for the record. Uh and then dive right in. Okay. Um, my name is Maria Setti and I live at 2016 Beacon Street. Um, I had some issues during the state fair with regard to parking and it was issues I believe should have been handled very straightforwardly. Um, instead I had multiple different incidences that required multiple calls to law enforcement and law enforcement response multiple times without actually doing anything until the very end. One of which took almost four hours. Something that was pretty cut and dry. So, um, the first issue I ran into was something that anybody should know, which is you shouldn't park in front of a curb cut. Um, there was one car that was parked in front of a curb cut, blocking the entire thing of it. Um, it was leading into Ridgewood Lane, so that's the only sidewalk that leads into Ridgewood. Um, and an officer came out when I called. He looked at me, said, "I promise I'll" He's like, "I'll take care of it. Don't worry about it." He left. Didn't leave a ticket. I called back to see what was up, whether there was going to be a warning or a ticket mailed to him or whatever. The police officer never called me back until a neighbor had called and then that officer had left a voicemail saying that it wasn't a ticketable offense to block a curb cut completely, which is simply untrue because it violates not only city ordinance but state ordinance and federal law. Um, and it took 3 to four hours before a ticket was eventually issued to that car. Um, when I called the police chief initially, she was apologetic, said it shouldn't have taken so long, and I thought that that was going to be the end of it and I would have no more problems. But then a few days later, there was a car parked encroaching on the crosswalk on Skillman, which as you all know is a very highly trafficked road, especially during the fair. So, it was very dangerous trying to cross there because that car was parked way too close. State ordinance says at least 20 feet is what it should be. And the car's bumper was completely on the actual paint for the crosswalk. And when I called that in, that officer called me back and said, "We're trying to get people graced with parking." But the thing is, it was a safety issue. I had been walking my dog and me and my dog had almost gotten hit because we were trying to look for a car, but we couldn't see around that big SUV. And then like I tried to pull my dog back. The car didn't see me. I didn't see the car and it was a whole problem. And I told the officer that, but he said, "The homeowner said they could park there. So, we're going to give him a little grace. If the car is still there in 30 minutes, I'll come back out and I might write a ticket or not." Eventually, he did come out and write a ticket. And when I called the police chief at that point, the next day about it, she said, "Well, yes, we're giving people grace. We're not going to ticket the offense." um and that it's Falcon Heights as well. She blamed Falcon Heights for the parking problems I was experiencing instead of looking at her officers and saying, "Why are we sending an officer out multiple times for the same call rather than writing a ticket?" Um it took several conversations with officers about it before any ticket was ever issued for that car. And then the next day, same thing happened. Car parked too close to the crosswalk. I had to call it in. And it was again a giant SUV. You can't see around it. Same spot, same everything. And the officer didn't wind up ticketing that car as far as I'm aware. Um, and my issue is why are officers not enforcing parking regulations and why when is the safety concern specifically? Why it takes multiple calls and multiple times for an officer to come out to finally do something about it. Um, they made more work for themselves by not just ticketing it the first time when they came out. I get they're busy. I understand that, but you they turned what should have been a 15 to 20 minute interaction into multiple hours. So, I really don't understand that. And then I feel like it's a waste of resources to not ticket the car. And I understand ticketing a car doesn't remove the danger, but it sends a signal to everybody else driving by Roseville's serious about parking infractions. So, I don't get why they wouldn't have issued a ticket or a warning or something on that car to indicate what had happened. And honestly, calling them and it taking so long made it feel like my safety and my access to the community was optional to them during the fair instead of something that I should be allowed to do. I like to take walks to my neighborhood. I like to go to the park. I like to enjoy Roseville when it's nice out. But to have police officers look me in the face and then not do anything is really disheartening and it makes me wonder why I even call in. So I just was curious if there's anything that you guys plan to do about this in the future or if there's any sort of solution that could be made because there was a lot done wrong in that in that case but not one call went smooth. Not one straightforward answer from anybody about any of it. >> Great. Thank you for your comments. Uh, and I think we can refer that uh for some followup. >> We got some photos. >> I have photos if you guys want something. >> Feel free to feel free to provide those to Mr. Treon. >> Want the letter too? >> Yeah, >> you can have all of it then. >> Thank you very much. Yeah. Contact number. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Well, is there anyone else uh this evening here for uh general public comment on a non-aggenda item? >> Hello and welcome. >> Hello. Thank you. >> Hello, Mayor Row and council members of Roseville City Council. My name could microphone speak a little louder if you can. >> Sure. I'll turn up the microphone for you. >> How about now? Can you hear me now? We don't want to have a lot of back and forth here. >> Okay. >> Hello. Good evening. Thank you for having me. Thank you for hosting the public comment. My name is Cat KMA. I live on 469 Glenwood Avenue. And really, I'm here because I've lived in Roseville for 5 years. and I am imploring you to improve upon your street lamp policy by including an opt- out variance. I believe you all have received an email from me uh and met several of my neighbors who are in agreement. So, the people of our neighborhood do not want or need the four street lamps that were proposed to be built. I ask you to add this revisiting of this policy to your next city council meeting agenda. As a software designer by trade, I know intimately well how important it is to build things that people actually want, people actually will use, and that solve an actual problem. Every year, every year, millions of dollars are wasted in creating things that people do not want. And we believe that this blanket policy is one of those situations. Please do not let our great city be guilty of wasting taxpayer dollars. When door knockocking this last week, we had three generations going out and talking to our fellow neighborhood. 14 of the 30 houses that we saw were in the neighborhood of the two proposed street lights. 13 of them were home and 13 of the for excuse me, 13 of 14 of them were home and 13 of the 14 said that they were opposed to the street lamps. The cost-saving element of the policy as it currently stands is, I believe, particularly unclear. While the policy that XL contributes to, it states that the maintenance will be handled by XL and that there will be Cobra headlights. That's true. I believe that. Um but it the part that I take into consideration in particular is the fact that there will be energy cost savings by 9% which does not factor in the additional electricity that will be needed to power the additional four street lamps that again we previously did not want and frankly don't need. uh many of the younger families that moved in in the last 5 to 10 years will and do intend to stay here for good which would mean that based on the average lifespan of motans we would need to collectively have to pay for something that we did not want for the next 50 years. Uh, finally, when my husband and I were looking for homes, the reason that we purchased the one on Glenwood Avenue was because of it its proximity to wild land, the Ramsay County open space, the wetland that is home to many swans and egrets and herand migrating w water fowl. We loved that we were living two blocks away from Lake McCarron that supports even more water fowl, including our beloved state bird, the loon, in the spring and in the fall. And in the October that we moved in, there were two bald eagles that began flying over our house and began to build a nest. And so for the past 5 years, we've been able to witness these bald eagles building and raising their young. So there is no problem to be solved here as far as we're concerned. We love our neighborhood exactly as it is, our feathered, antenned, furry, and human friends or otherwise. Some places like our neighborhood should be kept dark. So, please agree to revisit the street lamp policy. Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. >> And I should note on that topic, it's probably a bit of a gray area uh in terms of whether it's on the agenda or not tonight. We do have actually an item later in the meeting to decide if we're going to put it on a future agenda. Uh but I didn't want to necessarily get into a discussion of our rules and how we're going to do things. So, I was happy to accommodate that comment. I will say that the rest of the comment appropriate to that topic would be uh presumably if the council adds it to a future meeting that then we'll have a plenty of opportunity for members of the public to speak and we'll make sure that everybody knows about it as well. So uh just a little explanation there. Um is there anyone else here for general public comment at this time? >> All right. Well, with that then we'll move on with our agenda here and we do have a couple of uh items under recognitions and donations this evening. uh and they are both proclamations which are neither recognitions or donations, but uh we'll we'll somehow get through this. >> And the first is in relation to Hispanic His Heritage Month in Roseville. Uh it's appropriate that I will read the proclamation and then we'll have a motion uh to approve it. Uh the proclamation reads as follows. Whereas from September 15th to October 15th, national national Hispanic Heritage Month is observed to celebrate the heritage, history, traditions, and cultural diversity of Hispanic Americans whose heritage is rooted in Spain, Mexico, Central and South America, and the Caribbean, including Guatemala, Honduras, Salvador, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, uh, Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Paraguay, Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Dominican Republic. And whereas the national observation began in 1968 as Hispanic Heritage Week and was expanded in 1988 when the United States Congress adopted a resolution designating September 15th to October 15th of each year as National Hispanic Heritage Month. And whereas this Heritage Month is celebrated midseptember to mid-occtober to highlight the independence dates of several countries. September 15th is the day that five Latin American countries celebrate their independence from Spain. Those being Costa Rica, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala, and Honduras. Mexico celebrates its independence on September 16th and Chile on September 15th. Hispanic the Hispanic community or excuse me whereas the Hispanic community has a profound influence on our country through their strong commitment to family faith and culture and they have enhanced and shaped our national heritage with centuries old traditions that reflect multithnic and multicultural customs of their communities. And whereas during National Hispanic Heritage Month, the United States celebrates the culture and traditions of Spanish-sp speakaking residents who can trace their roots to Spain, Mexico, Central America, South America, and the Caribbean. And whereas the city of Roseville invites all members of the community to celebrate the 2026 Hispanic Heritage Month theme, uh, together we are more. This theme celebrates family resilience, creativity, faith, and service in honoring the diverse stories that strengthen our nation, invest in our future, and build a stronger America for all. Now, therefore, be it resolved, the city of Roseville hereby proclaims September 15th through October 15th to be Hispanic Heritage Month in Roseville. >> So moved. >> Second. Right. It's been moved by Council Member Grath, seconded by Council Member Sharter to approve that proclamation. Is there discussion on that motion? >> Hearing none, all those in favor signify by saying I. >> I opposed. That passes unanimously and that proclamation is approved. >> Uh the second proclamation is in relation to Constitution Week, which is coming up in September here, not too uh distant from today. We have some representatives of the uh Daughters of the American Revolution with us, or a representative this evening, or at least one. Uh feel free to have a seat if you'd like to tell us a little bit about uh the constitutional week and the observance and some of the history. >> Well, good evening, Mr. Mayor and city council members. My name's Kelly Berguson. Um do you need my address? Okay. I live in Shore View. Uh but I'm very happy to be here tonight. I'm a member of the Harriet G. Walker chapter of the Daughters of the American Revolution and our members, you know, live around uh Roseville, Shore View and Northern Suburbs. The Constitution Week is very important for D. D uh initially um issued their own proclamations for Constitution Week, September 17th to um to the 21st. And then the um the legislature and President Eisenhower signed it signed the proclamations as well. But every year we celebrated and try to educate the community as to the importance of the constitution for um we believe that we wouldn't be celebrating America's 250th this year if we didn't have the constitution. recently or I'm still working on a biography of George Washington uh by Ron Cherno and uh there's there's a lot in here about the Constitution. If you wouldn't mind, I'd just like to share a few quotes um from George Washington about the Constitution and and just the remarkable fact that it ever got passed in the first place. Um after the Revolutionary War, it became apparent the Articles of Confederation were insufficient to govern the new country. What was needed was radical surgery. Alexander Hamilton uh called on states to form a constitutional convention. George Washington was kind of reluctant at first to participate. he just wanted to stay on Mount Vernon and be retired. But um his fellow Virginiaians um made um got him there and then he ended up being the president of the um of the convention, the convention president. Some people think it was for ordained that Washington with his sense of duty would go to Philadelphia. He um the delegates it's believed that they overcame their dread of executive power and produced an energetic presidency which can be traced to Washington's presence and his virtue. So they had Washington as a model of what a president should be and as we know he did serve as our first president here. He later said the constitution was the result of a spirit of amity and mutual concession and more coherent than anyone had a right to expect from so many discordant delegates with passionate opinions. It struck him as little short of a miracle. He later told Lafayette that delegates from so many states should unite in forming a system of national government so little liable to wellfounded objections. So anyway, it was quite a feat that our constitution was ever passed and and we're thankful that we have it and it's important to appreciate it today. Uh in addition to receiving some proclamations from some local city councils, our chapter this year is going to have a constitution program at uh Cardigan Ridge located on Rice Street and 694 and where we're going to have a a program and a singalong and apple pie and ringing of the bells on September 17th at 2:00 3:00 Eastern time, which is the time when the Constitution was was signed. So, thank you for letting me share some of these things about the Constitution. Thank you for celebrating with me. I have a few bookmarks and um a few brochures about our chapter and who we are. So, shall I just leave them over here? >> Yeah, feel free to leave them with Mr. Troy. >> Okay. >> I will note also that we have a nice copy of the proclamation that I'll sign after we adopt it and happy to share that with you to uh take back to your organization. Um uh the next step would be appropriate for us to I'll read the proclamation. We'll have a vote on it. Uh and then I believe uh after that we'll pause the meeting for just a moment for a couple of pictures. Uh with that, oh before I start the proclamation, I do want to note that uh you may or may not have seen it on the way into city hall this evening. Uh but actually there was a uh monument to the the last big anniversary of the Constitution, which I can't remember exactly the number now, but it's out there on the monument. Um and that was a a large stone monolith that has on the top of it the preamble to the Constitution. Um and uh due to its uh its deterioration over time earlier this year, it was taken out for a while and uh refurbished. And so now you can once again read the preamble to the Constitution on that monument. but it's worth taking a look at anytime you're visiting us here at city hall. And with that, the proclamation reads as follows. Whereas September 17th, 2026 marks the 239th anniversary of the drafting of the Constitution of the United States by the Constitutional Convention. And whereas it is fitting and proper to accord official recognition to this magnificent document and its memorable anniversary and to the patriotic celebrations which will commemorate the occasion. And whereas public law 915 guarantees the issuing of a proclamation each year by the president of the United States designating September 17th through 23rd as Constitution Week. Now therefore be resolved that the city of Roseville hereby declares September 17th through 23rd, 2026 to be Constitution Week in the city of Roseville and urges all to reaffirm the ideals of the framers of the Constitution, excuse me, the ideals that the framers of the Constitution had in 1787 by vigilantly protecting the freedoms guaranteed to us through this guardian of our liberties, remembering that lost rights may never be regained. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Right. All right. It's been moved by Council Member Shore, second by Council Member Gra. Uh discussion on the motion. >> No, I'm just thank you so much for being here tonight and to reminding us how important this is. So, thank you. >> Other discussion? >> Well, I would echo that. I think for many of us these times we feel we really need to rely on the Constitution more than ever. >> All right. With that, we have the motion before us to adopt the proclamation. All those in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. That passes unanimously and that proclamation is approved. Uh we'll take just a quick brief break here in the meeting so that I can sign it and we'll have a couple of pictures. All right, we'll resume the meeting and I appreciate everybody's patience and indulgence for that. Uh let's see. That brings us then to our business items this evening. Starting with item uh 7A, which is to hold a public hearing to consider approving the transfer of an on sale liquor, excuse me, a liquor license for Osaka Sushi Bar and Hibachi. Mr. Judge, I believe this is an item you're going to introduce. >> Yes. Uh thank you, Mr. Mayor. As mentioned, this is consideration of a new liquor license or a transfer of a liquor license from the previous um owner of Osaka restaurant. Osaka Roseville Incorporated located at 1675 County Road West uh C West uh to Wasaka Sushi Bar and Habachi on uh I'm sorry, Osaka Sushi Bar and Habachi business. This will be an on sale liquor license including Sunday uh sales. they have submitted all the information and are eligible for approval of this transfer and um this is officially a public hearing so we have testimony. I am not sure if the applicant is in the audience or not. Doesn't appear that the applicant is here. Um are there questions from the council for staff on this proposed license transfer application? All right. Uh this is a public hearing. This would be an opportunity if there is anyone from the public who wishes to speak in support of or in opposition to the transfer of this license between the two business entities uh operating the restaurant at Osaka. Um this would be the opportunity. Uh feel free to come forward at this time if that's the case. All right. It does not appear we have anybody from the public to speak to this uh license transfer. Uh we'll go ahead and close the public hearing then and move to council consideration. We've got the request before us. Uh the appropriate action would be a motion to approve the license transfer for Osaki. Osaka. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All right. It's been moved by council member Grath. Seconded by council member Stron. Uh discussion on that motion as the maker of the motion. Council member Grath. >> No. >> Council member Straw as a secondary. >> Uh other discussion. All right. It's a fairly straightforward item, but we are required by ordinance to have a public hearing in order to do that. Uh but once again, we've got the motion before us to approve that license transfer. Uh all those in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. That passes unanimously. And that is approved. That then brings us to our second business item this evening, and that is uh to consider a request to perform an abatement uh for unresolved violations of state statute and city code uh at 887 Parker Avenue. Okay. um including seeking an administrative search warrant, other appropriate court order or or other appropriate court order to conduct the necessary inspections to fully abate the nuisances. We have our code official here with us this evening, David England, uh to bring this item before the council, and I'll turn it over to uh him to introduce this for us. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of council. As described, uh staff is requesting approval of an abatement request to remove vehicles from 887 Parker Avenue. Uh the subject property is an owner occupied two family dwelling. Uh the current violations include inoperable and unlicensed vehicles under city code as well as unscreened outdoor storage of vehicles with collector plate registration on private property per state statute. Uh the above reference violations were the result of a July 29th complaint that we received from a member of the public. Staff did conduct a site visit on July 31st. staff did observe several vehicles stored on this property uh some with tarps covering the vehicles. Similar complaints have been made against this property in previous years. Um and a previous legal interpretation of the state statute and city code uh was that the vehicles were in compliance. Uh following this most recent complaint and site conditions, staff sought an opinion from the new city attorney. Um the opinion given back to staff was that these vehicles were in violation of state statute. Um so at that point staff did post the vehicles and send notices to the property informing them of the violations to state statute um and giving them 30 days to come into compliance with state statute which is 10 days longer than what state statute actually requires. Um staff did conduct a follow-up inspection on August 31st and found no progress toward compliance and staff did find that there were additional violations of city code uh with inoperable vehicles on site. Um at that point an additional letter was posted and mailed to the property owner again um also informing the property owner of this meeting tonight for a public hearing before city council. Um attached to the RCA was several photos of the property that came to you as council. Um, also there was correspondence that we sent to the property um along with all cited code sections um in attachment too. Uh should council approve the abatement, additional actions are necessary to ensure full compliance because the tarps cover the entire vehicles except for the tires cannot be determined if these are also in violation of state statute if they're licensed inoperable as well under city code. So staff is requesting um that the city attorney seek a administrative search warrant so that we can fully investigate these vehicles that are on site and on the property. Um, I lost my place. I'm sorry. Um, and the city attorney is advising this action under a resolution that's also attached in your packet tonight. Um, as of the writing of the RCA last week, there's been no communication or contact from the property owner. Um, staff again on Friday did post the agenda for tonight's meeting with no response from the property owner. staff did receive uh numerous correspondents from neighboring properties or residents uh of the area and those were included to you as a bench handout as well for tonight. Um, so with that, staff is recommending that the council direct community development staff to abate the above reference violations at 887 Parker, including authorization for the city attorney to seek an administrative search warrant or other appropriate court order authorizing the city to inspect the vehicles under tarps to ensure full compliance. >> Right. Thank you, Mr. England. And just to clarify, there's there's two sets of or two types of violations. One is city nuisance items. there is evidence of uh either um inoperable or unlicensed vehicles uh outdoor storage on the property. Uh as well as the uh state statute requirement which is primarily related as I understand it to screening of the vehicles that have particular plates that fall under the statutory guidance. >> That is correct. >> Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. Uh questions from the council. Uh council member Strong. >> Thank you. I have two questions. one, um, if these vehicles, such as some of the ones pictured, do not have front license plates, does that make them out of, uh, compliance with state licensing requirements? >> Potentially. That is another reason we've requested the administrative search warrant so we can go further onto the property and, uh, see if there's a rear plate that may have that collector plate. We we don't know, but it would be considered with no front plate in violation of city code. >> Okay. And then um what about the many vehicles that um are on the street, many of which are out of uh have sat there for years and years and some of which have very outdated license plate tags as well. >> I'm not aware of the ones that have outdated tags, but anything in the street is outside of our jurisdiction. Okay. >> Um I would defer to the city attorney and uh Roseville PD for those, but I have observed those vehicles in the street. >> Okay. >> But not with outdated tags. >> Yeah. just out of date generally >> area I drive by and walk by regularly so I'm familiar >> other council questions for staff. >> Great. Uh do we have a representative of the property owner here this evening to uh speak to this request? Uh if so feel free to have a a seat at one of the microphones and indicate your name. I think we know your address for the record. That's the case information. Direct comments or questions to the council. Uh, and then if uh it's appropriate for staff to respond, uh, we can call Mr. England back up to provide that response. >> Hello and welcome. >> Hi, thank you. >> I should I should emphasize because you're the subject of the case, we don't have the same three-minute time limit that we do for general public comment. So, uh, take the time you need to make your case. >> Well, thank you. Um, it's my first time addressing a council since the Indian head council as a very little boy. So, uh, thank you, Mr. Mayor and councel. I am here to report a lot of progress over the weekend. Um, >> and just once again, if you could state your name. >> John Snell. >> All right. Thank you, John. >> Uh, the 10th, actually, and a direct descendant of William Bradford, our first uh country's governor from the Mayflower. >> Um, since it tied into the other agenda items, um, there were six vehicles u posted with this um to do something about it. Basically, uh I moved three over the weekend and the fourth one I think was a city violation cuz it did have a tire that would continually go flat. Um frustrating to me and apparently some of my neighbors. I fixed all those today. I got all new tires on my that was an Audi from the 2000s. So I presume it wasn't a classic issue. Um, so there's sort of a I I also want to please state that I did read the comments from the neighborhood. Um, I was able to find those online and I wanted to mention to anyone watching online, I read those and I hear them and I understand. Um, it had mentioned that neighbors have complained to me, but um, I'm here to carry a message for my next door neighbor to say be sure to voice that we are a strong proponent. We have no problems with this. Um, and same with my other neighbor. Actually, everyone I speak to has been, as I was getting vehicles off the property this weekend, as you can imagine, all the neighbors walking by were in fascination and and seemed very upbeat. But I did read those comments and I understand them. So, I would uh I guess move to I I I guess I don't know quite what the next step would be. Um, there are two left and one is way up the driveway half behind a fence and I didn't know if maybe point planting a shrub at the very end of the fence to sort of extend the blockage further would help. I didn't want to be presumptuous and just plant a bunch of shrubs without, you know, but I just instead of doing that, I just moved the cars. And there is a dual benefit from this in that it makes more room in the driveway to get vehicles off the street. And so just as of yesterday, I've really enjoyed parking in my own driveway with my regular vehicle. Um to give just a quick rundown of the last 5 years, I did get CO very bad in 2020. In 2022, my uncle sold his property which I was not in a position health-wise to do much about. I did move them to local garages, two of them, and subsequently uh they needed the garages back and I was sort of in a position where I had to get by in the short term. So, I wanted to thank my neighbors for their patience for that. And just to report the progress and that I am hearing I it was a little ambiguous with the previous warnings and I didn't quite know how to comply. Uh but with them posting on specific vehicles, it made it very easy for me. >> All right. Thank you. Thank you. It would be appropriate at this time too if there's a specific request for either delay in enforcement or non- enforcement or whatever you might be asking us for. This would be the time to say that. >> Thank you. Um, I I guess I would move to uh the I hope to be now in compliance, I guess, is what uh so to move to dismiss the charges. And I didn't hear anything about a search warrant until it was posted on my door Friday. So, that doesn't seem like much notice uh for due process, but I'm not trying to push back. I just um am understanding this as it comes in my way and doing what I can to abate to appease to abide that's the word. >> All right. Well, thank you for being here this evening for helping us understand your situation. I'll just check if there were council members who might have questions for the uh property owner. >> All right. Uh so, uh feel free to have a seat in the audience. >> All right. Thank you. >> Relax a little bit. >> Okay. Well, >> now that you're out of the uh out of the spotlight anyway. >> Yes. Um, uh, are there any follow-up questions from the council? Uh, anything else our attorney you wanted to add at this point? Not required. >> I guess I have one. >> Okay. >> Does m Mr. England, did you know have you were you able to go to the property today or >> we were by the property? We did not see the um improvement that was described >> vehicles. Okay. Thank you. >> I do have another question. Um, Mr. England. I I don't know that six vehicles would make a significant impact given the number of vehicles that are in and around the um multiple driveways all the way back. Um what is standard by which we're thinking that homeowners would have vehicles out on the property. You know, some of them weren't tagged, but those were in the request for search warrants so that they can we can receive information. So, it doesn't necessarily mean they weren't impacted. We just didn't have adequate information to do anything about them right this second. Right. >> Correct. Correct. That's that's the reason we asked for the administrative search warrant. >> But they need to be operable. They need to be licensed. Um is there a limit on how many vehicles can be? So as long as they keep building driveway space, there's enough space to just keep >> if they have improved surface, they can park vehicles on them. There is no limit for that. Uh the main difference with the state statute and the collector plates is that they have to be completely out of view and none of these are completely out of view. >> Okay. >> And that's view from the street. Correct. >> Ordinary public view. >> Ordinary public view which could be from the street or >> could be. Okay. >> Thank you. Other questions? >> Could I perhaps present a photo to the gentleman? One was towed at at 2 p.m. today. >> I will let you follow the uh Yeah. Um uh >> we should provide an opportunity also for members of the public who may wish to speak to this. If there is anyone here that wishes to speak to this item, feel free to come forward and member to direct uh comments or questions to the council. Uh and if we have to provide some follow-up, we can do that. >> Sure. >> Once again, just begin with your your name and your address for the record. >> Good evening, mayor, council members, Mr. Trejan, Miss Tierney. Uh my name is Dan Braun. I reside at uh on Parker Avenue. I've lived there for 42 years. So, I'm directly impacted by um shall we say the aesthetics that um we're talking about tonight. Um uh I've I've crossed paths with John several times, but we've never met formally. Nice to meet you. >> Thank you. I uh I I have no doubt um that John is a sincere uh neighbor and uh has all good intentions. Unfortunately for us neighbors, um this has really gotten out of hand. I don't know if it's just a hobby that's uh been all-consuming or or what the story is. It's not my concern really, but I've voiced some concerns to the to to the city over probably a 10-year period and really it's kind of frustrating that there hasn't been u progress made until this point. I mean, thank you very much for taking it up. I think it's it's uh high time. Um but really um you know we're talking anywhere from 19 plus vehicles. Uh Mr. Anne, it sounded like you've been by the property. I'm not going to ask for a show of hands to embarrass anybody if they have, but I would invite you to uh dial in the uh address on your phones and get the switch to the satellite image and you can count cars yourself. It's it's visible from space and and it's it's not just the uh vehicles in the driveway, it's the vehicles on the street. I realize that's two different jurisdictions or two different uh issues, but they are kind of related. I really think so. Um there may be some limitations to what the council or what the city of Roseville can deal with on the street, but I think they are related. Um, so I I guess this, you know, does it impact uh me personally? You know, I'm, you know, halfway down the block and, you know, it's it's an annoyance, shall we say, but I enga, you know, through this process, I've engaged several uh of our neighbors and I find out that I'm not the only one that this has bothered. There's a lot of other people that have voiced concern over the years and the inaction is is disappointing. Um and and even to the point where uh you know people just give up. They say, "Well, we're not going to get any action from the city, so we're just you know, there's nothing we can do." It's it's it's interesting and maybe a little bit embarrassing for the city of Roseville. And I'm I'm not blaming, you know, you individually because this is a 10 plus year deal. So you you're only you're only responsible for here and now. But I mean seriously this is uh so you know with chat GDP these days you can get a lot of information. So I searched the six surrounding cities to see what sort of regulations they might have as it relates to to this issue. And um Shore View Driveway four four vehicle max. Maplewood or or uh uh and the street parking no parking between 2 and 5. Maplewood no front yard parking. None. None on the street between 2 and 6:00 p.m. Ardan Hill is a maximum of four cars in the driveway. No street parking between 2 and 6 a.m. Lauderdale. Uh front parking prohibited. Uh after 3 days, it's considered a street parking is considered abandoned and removed. Uh Little Canada, maximum of four uh cars in the driveway. No parking between 2 and 6 a.m. St. Paul uh any parking any uh more than four spaces needs a site plan and no parking greater than 48 hours in the street. So I asked uh GTP the subject of how uh Roseville uh rates in the 7count metropolitan area on this topic and the quote was Roseville is among the least restrictive cities in the seven county metropolitan area. So, I mean, frankly, I think that's a little embarrassing. I even I mean, now maybe you can say, well, you know, these are more elite. Uh, >> Mr. Brown, I'm going to have to tell you, you're at about four and a half minutes now. So, >> yeah. Well, thought, yeah, I've been timing everybody here, and I'm not the only one that's just a little bit over here. So, um, >> uh, I I guess I'm saying that, you know, if if these other if it's if it's because these other suburbs are some elite suburbs, I I would challenge that that's not the case. Even Brooklyn Center has a more uh restrictive parking policy than uh than Roseville. So, thank you very much. >> Thank you for your comments. >> Thank you. >> Is there anyone else from the public who wishes to speak to this item? Hello and welcome. >> Good evening. My name is Steve Harju. I own and live at 919 Parker Avenue and I've lived there since the early 80s. I've met John I um number of years ago. It's very congenial. Uh certainly no issues in that respect, but it has become a an issue of aesthetics of uh it's a sea of tarps. There are so many vehicles. Uh you really can't see much else. It certainly is detrimental to the neighborhood. It uh certainly is not happy types of things that you want to see. I I I would hope that the city would give some consideration to, you know, finally let's make some moves on this. Uh certainly there uh whether it be as as Dan had mentioned, whether it's a hobby that's gotten out of control or if it's the way the business is turning right now, uh something needs to be done. And I would hope that the uh the council uh can address this issue. That's all I have to say at this time. Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. >> Is there anyone else from the public who wishes to speak to this item this evening? >> All right. Uh does not appear to be the case. Uh then we'll uh thank folks for their comments. Uh we'll bring it back to council consideration uh at this time. Um, and I will just note sort of in in response to some of the the the comments just broadly uh that I think Roseville has, uh, had a lot of discussions over the years about parking and various issues related to parking. Um, uh, and we always want to try to balance different people's needs for uh, either parking on their property or parking on the street. uh and it doesn't mean that we have the end all beall best answer and couldn't make changes and I think that's always something that uh we need to be conscious of uh in terms of our regulations as a city. Uh and so I don't want to suggest that uh that we're you know not going to change anything one way or another. Um, I would note that it may be the case that prior uh concerns raised with the city may have been investigated and found not to be actual violations of the specific parameters of the city code, which is sometimes the case. Uh, certainly cars parked in places aren't automatically violations unless either there's the inoperability question or the unlicensed question or things like parked on a non-improved surface or or other things like that. So, uh, that was just kind of to provide some context and response, uh, in regard to that. And certainly that there may be more conversation that the council has going forward on some of these issues. Uh, and certainly I'll let other council members speak to their desire to do that. We do have the specific request this evening uh for the abatement and the authorization of the uh judicial means of additional investigation of the site or court means of additional investigation of the site which we s should adjudicate this evening as a council. Uh and so uh I don't know if council members have more questions or motion uh would be appropriate. >> I'd like to make a motion to direct the devel uh community development staff to abate the property. second. >> Uh can we take this? Do you want to take the uh resolution from >> I can also Yes. I would also like to move adoption of the resolution uh provided in attachment three and I don't know if we want to add the other piece but I would >> No, I think it's the the authorize the abatement and um adopt the resolution >> seeking an administrative court. >> Yes. I'd like to make that motion. >> Second by council member Grath. Yes. >> Was I able to speak again? Was Did you mention that? >> Uh there's not another opportunity. No, I'm sorry. >> Um at this time then we have the motion to authorize the abatement as well as to adopt the resolution uh requesting the uh the court uh ordered means to investigate further. Um discussion on that motion as the maker. Council member Strong. >> Nothing further. >> All right. Council member Graas the second. I'm sorry this situation's happened. Of course, this isn't something we intend to have happen in Roseville, and I understand the frustration on both sides here, but we do have a certain standards. We have to have neighborhoods kept to aren't always perfect here. We know that, but thank you for bringing it up and uh we will be acting tonight. And I do support both of these. >> Right. Other discussion on the motion. And I did want to check uh sometimes uh the council does uh uh um stay enforcement for a period of time to allow the property to become into compliance. I don't know if that's been a consideration in the motion this evening or is something that anybody wishes to amend the motion to include. Uh but I just wanted to put that out there before we take our vote in case that was something somebody wanted to do. >> All right. >> Storage space recently. >> All right. Uh with that then we have the and I should say this is all conditional on the violations continuing to exist of course. >> Oh good. >> All right. So with that we have the motion before us to authorize the abment as well as to pass the resolution to uh request the uh the court uh sanctioned additional inspection. Uh with that if there's no further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed. >> That passes unanimously. All right. Thank you again for being here this evening and hopefully that uh that will help the process uh along. We have a second abatement this evening and that is item 7C. Uh that's a request to perform an abatement of unre unresolved code violations uh at 735 County Road B2. And once again uh Mr. England is here for that. >> Thank you Mr. Mayor members councel. The current violations of this owner occupied single family home include inoperable and unlicensed vehicle in the driveway as well as set and fascia and disrepair on the garage. Uh these violations were first brought to staff's attention last fall in 2025. Staff was able to make contact with the property owner. The property owner did have a plan was working with some weather related issues and some titling issues with the vehicle. Um the property owner requested an extension till spring of this year. uh this area of the city was in uh in the NEP, the neighborhood enhancement program inspections. So, we relied on our NEP inspector to bring that back to us if it was not in compliance. Um it did come back to staff that property was not in compliance. So, we did notify uh by letter on August 19th to the property owner requesting contact or compliance. Um we did not receive any. So, we posted the property on August 31st informing the resident that these concern would be addressed here tonight at this public hearing. Um, and also that we would be requesting abatement approval from the city council. Um, as of the writing of this report, I didn't receive contact, but on Friday when we posted the agenda, uh, staff did make contact with the property owner. He had stated he had a plan and was meeting with contractors and insurance uh for the sopet fascia repair this week. Um the vehicle he had also stated that he had just recently gotten a title and was planning to um take action to remove that from the property. Um I did also speak with the property owner uh late this afternoon and he confirmed the same items. Uh he did also send in an email that I included as a bench handout for council this evening. Um that is what I know to date on that one. Everything is still the same. Everything is currently still in violation. Um staff is recommending that the council direct community development staff to abate the above reference violations at 735 Kai Road B2. Great. Thank you. Mr. England is a representative of the property owner at 7:35 here. feel free to come on up and uh let us know if you've got any additional information or a request from the council related to this item. >> Hi there. >> Uh my name is uh Mark Jacobson. I'm the uh property owner. Um I do have a meeting with the contractor and my insure insurance adjuster on Wednesday. Uh then I should be able to get more information on getting the repairs done on the fascia and gutter. Uh we also got hit really bad with that tail storm and I think it was mid June. Uh so the whole roof of my house, everything's kind of needs some repairs right now. Um and the car I was able to get the title uh duplicate title on that one. So I'm going to have to I had a couple people who were interested in getting it uh but those kind of fell through. So, I'm probably just going to end up having to have it scrapped or have somebody just haul it away. Part of the problem I've been having with the car, too. I have had it covered. I've had people come over and sl put big slices in the cover, uh, cut the ropes off. People have been carving things into the side of the car, uh, get rid of this lazy POS. Uh, they've punctured all four of the tires. Uh, so some of the problems has been going on just from somebody who doesn't like the car being there's been kind of making some of the problems a little bit worse, which is also why I've decided just I'm going to have to just scrap the car. Uh, but I do plan on getting all that hopefully taken care of here in the next month or two, just have the the roof and everything done and get the car removed. And do you do you know right now what the time frame might be for the like the roof work and the soft invasion? >> The roof I won't know until after my insurance adjuster and uh the uh contractor I have go over to financials are really really hard for me right now. I make just enough to not get any help on anything. So which makes it frustrating. But then insurance has been going up. Uh, I just recently found out that the insurance I had like a $1,000 deductible. Now, since it's wind and hail, it's 1% of the policy coverage. So, that jumped it up to almost $4,000 that I have to pay out of pocket on that now, too. So, it's part of it is just financing and getting that taken care of. But, uh, I'm hoping at least with some of the insurance on the house, they'll be able to kind of figure out helping get something done on the garage, too. At least get the fascia and gutter and stuff like that replaced. >> Thank you for that. Uh, other questions from the council for the property owner. All right. Thank you for being here this evening. And, uh, you can also have a seat and relax. Thank you. >> And, uh, we'll, uh, proceed with the consideration of this item. Uh do we have anyone from the public who wishes to speak to this item this evening? That does not appear to be the case. Uh we've got the request uh from staff on this abatement. Uh we also do have the request from the property owner for some additional time um based on having the meeting uh this week with the uh contractor and insurance adjuster on the roof and sophet fascia issues. Um council uh >> have a question. questions from council. Council member. >> Yes, Mr. England. Um, the inoperable vehicle was a was there last fall as well. So therefore, you had asked them to do something about it in the fall and and did they ask more for more time for the vehicle as well as the building? >> They did. He did. Um, it was basically because he didn't have a good clear title and he was trying to sell it or have somebody take it from him that uh with a clear title. And you have any you don't have any idea how long it typically takes to try to get a title? >> No, I do not. >> Curious how much time is. Thank you. >> Other questions? Council member Strong, >> just clarifying, Mr. England. Um, back when this started a year ago, um, were these the same violations that were being recorded at that time? >> They are. >> And has have things improved or changed or gotten worse since that time? They have not gotten better. I would say no change. >> No change. Okay. Thank you. >> Right. Uh does council wish to take an action in relation to this uh request from staff on the abatement. I would like to make a motion on a one week an abatement with one week to remove the car because there is a title now and he will know what's happening and he can sign a contract on his uh insurance by next week but at that time because I know it there's a lot it's very challenging to get contractors out right now with the hail storm so if he's meeting with someone this week give him opportunity to make to move forward and find out information. Now that he has a title, he should be able to uh call the junkyard and get a hundred bucks and be done with it. Um but we've been dealing with this for one year and I think that any time beyond that would be unreasonable. Um, but because two of the pieces may have been holding him up that maybe were a little out of his control as far as the time frame, I'd be willing to give Grace one week to see advancements in both of those items. >> So, is that a motion to authorize the abatement with stay for one week correct in enforcement? >> Is there a second to that motion? >> I'll second it. >> Right. It's been moved by council member Stron, second by council member Schroeder to authorize the abatement with a oneweek stay of enforcement uh based on the information provided by the property owner this evening. Uh discussion on that motion. Uh council member Stron, anything to add? >> I don't think anything to add. Thank you. >> Council member Schroer as the seconder of the motion. >> Right. Other discussion from the council. Right. Um, I did want to note uh on this one just uh the information we have uh as estimated costs from the staff on the abatement is about $1,500. Granted, it's not the whole roof replacement and all the other things that you'd be looking at about $1,500 for that work to to fix the gutter and the soften fascia issue. Um and then the vehicle abatement is about $350 for a total of $1850. uh if a property owner is not able to pay the abatement cost, the city does uh periodically certify those to Ramsey County for them to then then go on to the property tax as an assessment. Um and I believe that's that's sometimes it's applied over time and then there's interest of course as well. So it can be a double-edged sword as far as the the mitigating the cost, but it it it can be an option as well. Just putting that all out there. Uh with that, we do have the motion before us. Uh as was noted to authorize the abatement with the one week's day of enforcement. Uh there's no further discussion. All those in favor signify by saying I I opposed. That passes unanimously and that abatement is authorized as noted. >> Uh thank you again to our building official and to the property owners for being here this evening. I appreciate your ability to help us understand the uh the matters before us. With that, then that brings us to um uh item 7D, which is to uh receive the uh civic campus design improvement plans for the maintenance and operations center as well as the license and passport center and dance studio project. Uh and we have with us this evening our um our public works director, Jesse Fryhammer, uh to introduce our consultants who will help us uh get up to date on the plans. And I'll turn it over to Mr. Fry hammer. Uh before I say anything further, >> uh thank you mayor and councel. Um so about 3 months ago at the June 15th meeting um we kind of provided the first major update on the civic campus project. Um over the last three months uh the design team of LHB and Krauss Anderson um and a bunch of city staff have been working diligently to uh keep moving this project forward. So tonight we have um uh two representatives from the design team to help give an update. uh similar to last round of where where we're at and where where the project's going. So, with that, I will turn it over uh to Martin and Ken to give a an update to the council. >> All right. Thank you. >> Hello and welcome back. >> Good evening. >> Well, it's a pleasure to be in front of you and to provide you with an update to all of you this evening. Um, as uh as was indicated, we've been working over the last few months continuing to develop this design and we'll just walk you through uh where it is at currently. >> Right. And if you could just introduce, >> of course, I'm sorry for Martin Thompson from LHB, the architecture and engineering firm. >> Good evening. I'm Ken Francis with Krauss Anderson Construction, uh, the construction manager. >> Thank you. So just kind of a recap of of the project in general uh where we're starting at. So uh we were presented with a series of of specific goals which we keep in front of the design team and the uh all of us as we're meeting and working on the project together. I I won't read through all of them here but they are ones which we all uh consider quite important to the success of this project. And of course we are working in this immediate area near the city hall. And for those just to refresh your memory um on this diagram. So the kind of uh a description of the building A represents the existing maintenance facility. B the city hall and police station which we're in right now. C is the fire station. D is the existing licensing passport and dance facility. in the old strip mall. E is the uh there's a park shared park VFW storage building and then F is the uh current BFW building. Also called out uh items one which is the maintenance yard that currently serves the maintenance facility. There are two existing cell phone antennas which are a little hard to see on this diagram but they are adjacent to the maintenance facility. and three, the veterans park on the north side. I also wanted to just bring forward again that there's been a structured effort to engage with the community and we've gathered quite a bit of useful uh information that has informed the design as we've moved along here. Um several things in particular rose to the surface in a number of conversations. Uh they incur included using a layered vegetate uh um selection of materials that would buffer the buildings, maintenance yards, incorporation of materials like brick that help tie things together in the civic campus. Uh considerations of sustainability and habitat and protection in uh lighting, paving, windows and so on as we look through the design. and then very carefully and very specifically looking at how to buffer along the western side of the uh proposed facility as it's adjacent to the neighborhood to the west. So just to help organize what is a very large project, there's three major parts and that's how I I'll present the rest of the information. grouping the licensing passport center and dance studio with Veterans Park, the maintenance and operations center north being the area currently occupied by the strip mall and then the maintenance operations center south which is the uh reworking of the current maintenance center. So just going through each of these uh with some of the uh high points. So Veterans Park, we're touching those aspects which are impacted by the proposed project and these are being designed based upon system needs specific engagement we've had from the public as well as what funding is available to support these items. There is further engagement anticipated when it comes to the design of the uh play equipment that would be a future item yet. And the specific improvements uh would be replacing the uh baseball diamond with a dedicated fast pitch softball field which is slightly smaller and uh works better with the the new uh evolving facility, a full court basketball uh a full basketball court, updated playground, and then also space reserved for a future veterans memorial which could which would probably occur somewhere between those main uh play areas. Then backing out a little bit further as we move south would be the licensing passport center and dance studio. Also the parking which we are uh reworking uh to support all these facilities. I'll just run through the parking first. It's a although just a parking lot in one sense it does have a lot of aspects that need to be considered to support all these various activities. So uh specifically 100 vehicle vehicle capacity was identified and we've been able to provide that in the layout. We have uh provisions planned for electric vehicle charging both present and down the road. Um, a significant part of this has been looking at how to provide storm water management in general, but specifically how to collect storm water to support the irrigation of the lawn at the uh softball diamond so that we're not using uh more uh treated water than necessary. We've also been working closely particularly with the VFW to make sure that truck maneuvering for their deliveries is accommodated as well as just the all the regular things of trash and recycling trucks and so on that need to serve these various facilities and then very carefully making sure that this new parking lot is designed around the city's landscaping requirements for new parking lots. The licensing center itself is is on the west side of this uh this site um in a north south orientation. It was has been carefully placed to both maximize the functions within the building but also provide a solid buffer to the west and that's you'll see in further uh information here but is reinforced further with extensive plantings along that west side. We've also uh allowing a certain distance up to the park activities uh both for aesthetics but also to hold the building back from the um the uh softball diamond and the potential damage that can be come from being a neighbor to a use of that sort. Um, we've coordinate co coordinated with Metro Transit who plans to already was planning to move their bus stop closer to this area which supports nicely the use of the licensing center uh building and then also making sure our new pedestrian access coordinates with access from uh the south side of Woodhill since there will be a certain amount of movement of staff and citizens back and forth across that street. Then shifting to the what we're calling the maintenance and operations center north which is the site at the corner of Lexington and Woodhill. Uh this is developing a um really a a secondary facility that supports additional functions for the maintenance operations center. Um placing the vehicle storage facility on the corner anchors that intersection and you'll I'll be showing you some elevations of what's proposed there of how we do that. the um we're using the wash vehicle wash and brine building on the west to define that western edge as well as being careful to develop the design of that so that it supports the VFW as a being a good neighbor towards them. We're using site walls as well as landscaping to screen this yard since it's a very functional use and plantings around that in order to help it blend into the neighborhood and be a good neighbor. We are removing that existing northfacing driveway which was actually connected to a private street. So we no longer have to have uh vehicles driving through there and instead providing a backup driveway through the parking lot for when the primary drive off Woodhill might not be available for various reasons but so that there is an option. This site is also being planned together very closely with input from the city because this would be the temporary setup while the south maintenance and operation center is being rebuilt and constructed so that functions can continue uh during that period. So that's the north and then uh the south facility which I've already alluded to for the maintenance and operations center. It's a substantial enlargement of the existing facility that's been here for many years and grown over the years. We'll be retaining that portion of the facility that's most recently constructed, but replacing all the other parts around that with new construction and largely maxing out what can be placed on that property. Office functions that support uh public works uh face city hall. They're on the south side and are integrated with the vehicles and pedestrian movement around the site. We've worked carefully to work around those two existing cell towers and their requirements which were in the northeast and southeast corners of this building and also making sure that the service yard to the north is screened uh on along the Woodhill Avenue side. There is currently a large photovoltaic array uh solar array on the existing uh portion we're retaining as well as on a portion we're replacing and that will be removed and reinstalled uh so that that asset that the city already has will continue to function. There's space to the south that we've reserved for future growth. Um with the idea that should office needs expand over the years, there is space where that could be added. And then the um there is also a uh a pathway along the a trail along the north side where we reserve space for that so that can continue and be extended along that side of the building. And as with all the other pieces of this project, landscaping is a big piece of integrating it into these its surroundings. I want to just touch a little bit on sustainability. It's been something of interest and and desire to incorporate to the extent we can on this project and we're taking various approaches on it to try to do as much as we can. So, as I mentioned, we're planning to reinstall the photovoltaic array that's already on the building. At this time, we're not sure if we can do another new array on the licensing center, but we're have proposed doing a bid alternate so that we at least get a price and can decide if bidding is favorable if the budget allows for that water reuse. I've I've mentioned already, we're gathering all the storm water under the new parking lot to use for irrigation of the softball field. Um, a green roof has been explored. It's also one we're not sure we can do, but for now we're holding it as a future bid alternate so we can get a a value for that and should the budget permit we could incorporate it at that time. Working through this all the systems the the envelope of the building have been we've looked at it very closely through intentional energy modeling so that our decisions are not just uh best guesses but really quite intentional and balancing out the performance of the building to get a really high performance outcome. So even without these other options, it's still a high-erforming building or buildings actually in this case. So just a quick run through of the plans. I won't go through every space here, but these will look familiar, but they've also been developed in much greater depth um structurally and uh in terms of building envelope. The space has worked out in great detail with a lot of input from the city staff. Um, this is the licensing and passport center and dance studio. Again, the licensing and passport functions flank a shared office uh area for the staff. That's in orange. There's a large entrance uh linear lobby along the front facing the parking lot with entrances that direct the public to the respective functions and the dance studio function being along the north which can also be closed uh in the evenings. So it can have its own function without necessarily having the whole building open at that time. And then uh this is our studies for the elevations the exterior that is of the building. So starting at the top this is the east elevation facing the parking lot. Some of these we have started to insert what the landscaping might look like so you get a sense of scale and what the appearance would be in a context versus just a flat image. to to just below that and to the left is the Woodhill elevation. So, if you imagine the corner there is that tall piece that wraps uh around the entrance that you'd pass by as you enter the parking lot. The north side is to the right of that, the short end which is the end with the dance studio. And there's two im images of the west elevation. Uh one is just by itself and then below that to give you a sense of the level of planting we're proposing. I we included both because you can't really see it very much once the trees are grown. U the intent is those are all coniferous uh trees that will screen it quite effectively and provide a nice buffer to the neighbors. than the north uh maintenance center. This is has changed very little other than developing the details and specifics of it over the last few months, but basically creating a court with various buildings defining the edges and as well as with sitewalls. So the uh large vehicle cold storage uh at the corner of Woodhill and Lexington, the wash bay and brine production building for the salt uh in the winter on the west side. The north has a large shed for salt. This is all surrounded by uh built walls of some height to conceal the all the rather industrial uses that go on in a yard of this sort. And then there's the northwest corner is enclosed with fencing and additional landscaping on that side. Again, a few elevations here. Um the uh building for parking the vehicles in has developed quite a bit over the last few months. And again, we we are showing the plantings along the public frontages. So the east elevation is Lexington. at the southeast corner at Woodhill and Lexington. We're proposing a uh mural of some sort at that corner. We think that could be a economical but also very effective way to mark a place in the community. We're using the grades which are themselves not totally flat in that area to our advantage to minimize the height of a fairly bulky building and then planting it heavily on both sides. The two lower images you see, those are facing into the service yard. So, one actually will have a wall partially against which um materials are stored outdoors. The other is the side facing the um facing west into the yard. And it's primarily where vehicles enter and exit that uh that building. Uh this is uh the building that contains the vehicle wash and brine production. A much smaller structure. The item I particularly wanted to point out, uh, this one is not rendered necessarily with plantings on it, but the lowest elevation faces the VFW and that will have a a trellis attached to the exterior, very large metal element and with vines planted on it. Uh, in in conversation, that was a way to mitigate the having a building right on the property line effectively, but also provide some acoustic benefit for the activities that happen in their yard. Um, in other respects, this is a fairly industrial structure and we're strategically using uh the parapits to conceal uh equipment that's on the roof that supports the uses of this building. So, and then moving on to the uh maintenance operation center on the south, the biggest of the buildings and a high level here. Uh all the blue areas are where the vehicles are stored. These would be the the actively inuse vehicles in a given season. Uh the beige areas are building equipment miscellaneous storage uses. Um the darker blue are utility functions that support the building. Uh green the bright green is streets and sign production. The dark green are the office uses. Orange are where vehicles are maintained. So the shops maintenance type spaces. And then the more pink area are dedicated to parks specifically. And here you can also get a better sense of of how the existing cell phone tower spaces tuck into the corners. So our scheme here was really to try to work with what was there but also in many ways this isn't a despite its size is a background building to the more public functions in the civic campus. So to make it attractive but not necessarily make it a focus for the public. So, we've brought the brick into it uh that we're using on other portions of the building. Um, a lot of this is pre-cast. The east elevation you see at the top is what's facing the firehouse, uh, directly to the east. The south elevation would be facing the building we're in now, city hall, which does have a little bit more of a public function, at least for certain uses. So that when it those entrances are given a little bit more consideration of how that appears from the parking lot side, the north elevation faces Woodill and incorporates the a wall that shields the service yard. And then the west elevation um is along civic center which uh incorporates the really the large section of building that is being retained. And with that I will hand it over to Ken. >> Great. Um I'd like to maybe pause. Are there any questions on design before we go through schedule and the latest budget update? >> Council member Strong. I was curious back at um the city campus project for the north maintenance in the north uh in our packet. It's page 56 of 202. But um in that northwest corner um a little bit further back. >> A little further. Okay. >> Sorry. Keep going back. So the site plan >> ah okay >> right there um at one point we had talked about that being some type of um holding pond doesn't indicate it there. Can you speak to that at all? >> Oh certainly um we shifted away from using that as a holding pond for storm water that's being gathered and actually contributing now to the collection that's going on on the north side. So that's now more reserved for snow storage in the winter um as just an open area. >> Great. Thank you. >> Other questions on the plan so far? >> Council B. >> Um I believe we have geothermal around that area. I can't recall exactly where, but is that um can you speak a little bit to where that is and if it's the South MOC building is going to be over that and when do we have pl tie into that the capacity for that and then so what does that mean for future maintenance if it is at that location to get access to it? >> It's currently serving the existing south maintenance center building. Um our the input we received is it the capacity is somewhat questionable if it could support this building because it you do need a balance of heating and cooling. Um it's still supporting other buildings. It will remain in place but it was decided not to connect this because it would throw the balance too far off and it um it it wouldn't function properly. So it it's still there still supporting other buildings in this this campus zone but not that that building at this time >> in its location. Where is that on the where is that located? >> So the the fields as I understand them are on the oval skating center site. >> That's our understand parking area. The north parking area p well maybe even the south parking area both but primarily in the north it seemed like >> Mr. Johnson >> I who owns the oval. >> I certainly do not. >> Uh thank you mayor and council member Bower. The existing geothermal field is under about half of the north parking lot at the skating center. Um the other building that is utilizing geothermal is the fire station. So where there is a a giant giant pipe that connects the two. Um the north maintenance building, the current maintenance building is not on geothermal, excuse me. Um we did do a pretty extensive study and found that it would be inefficient to utilize the existing wellfield. Um but there was some thought process and study into whether new more efficient well fields could be installed um with the north side and that was ultimately decided against because it would have been pretty costly. So >> I think that covers >> and following up with heating and cooling is the wash brine garage area plan to be heated and cooled at all? >> It will be heated. It will not be cooled. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And while we're on this particular view, so there was talk about this being one of the early stages of construction that it would sort of be serve some temporary purposes to allow for construction on the south side. >> Can you just maybe briefly talk a little bit at a high level about what that looks like? >> Certainly. Um the present plan is to utilize what is the wash bay for vehicles as um a temporary setup during the year of construction of the south work for uh vehicle maintenance. So basically becomes a vehicle shop for maintaining vehicles during that period. And then the uh various other functions not necessarily vehicle maintenance would would be set up temporarily in the large garage that's constructed in this first phase. Um, and we just met actually today with with a number of people also from that department uh getting input of where additional power and such might be needed to support the tools that would temporarily live in that location while the other facility is being built. >> All right. Thank you, Council Member Schroer. >> Yes. While we're here, this is what I wanted to ask because you touched on it. Originally, there was that holding pond that was going to um because of the wash bay and and um and I know I had some concern about the salt being in that water. So, how is that being um held and processed from the wash bay and the brine area? >> Where does that water go? it it go I believe it I I'm not the mechanical engineer so I can only go do this at a high level explain it but I believe it's all being collected and sent through appropriate collectors to separate the salt to the extent you can out >> right >> it there's a limit to how much can be removed um but we're also collecting the sto the storm water we're collecting we're trying to be strategic that it's the least contaminated with salt from where we're gathering it so heavily from roofs for example um this site is a little bit more limited it would be suitable for that since >> Yeah, you're right. Because once the salt gets into the water, >> right, >> it's hard to get rid of. >> So that's why it's concerned where it would end up. So >> yeah, that the brine and wash really that would go to a sanitary system and then go get treated in the sanitary plants just like uh normal waste would. uh the orientation of the salt shed and those openings uh really does play a factor in that that's facing south not to the north or the west where generally a lot of winds and storms can blow rain into a salt shed and cause more salt water. Um and also with that it does have to be segregated. It can't get mixed with the storm and treated separately than than storm water would. >> So you're se you're segregating the water off of the salt shed then. >> Yeah. So it uh in generally there are not many drains at all up there for that very reason. So it contains itself up there. Um and then the way the grades would be shaped as well is it wouldn't have draining into the shed itself. >> Great. Other questions >> uh what do you think you might for considerations for lighting of the yard? I guess mostly at the north MOC, >> the majority of it is uh lit off the buildings uh with there's two poles located near that the diagonal that you see in towards the northwest to capture that area where there aren't buildings to mount them on and they all have cut off so that they to uh they're not spreading beyond the immediate site. >> Right. Thank you for answering those questions. Sounds great. Um, do you want to skip ahead to the schedule and then budget slides? Um, so I do have the pleasure of presenting uh schedule and budget tonight. Uh, as you can see up on the um current slide, we had the design check-in number one back in June. We're currently here tonight for the design check-in number two. Uh, as plans are starting to get finalized. We anticipate those to be about ready to be 100% complete near the end of October, at which time we'd be back in front of you guys requesting permission to go out to bid to secure the trade contracts for this project. Uh the bidding period be in November. Um looking to uh receive bids near the end of November, early December, and then be back in front of you guys for award and uh a guaranteed maximum price contract approval in that middle of December range. With that, uh, in January and through the spring, we'd be, uh, collecting the necessary permits, procuring materials, getting ready to start the license, passport, dance studio spring of 27. Uh, we anticipate that to be complete around the spring of 28, at which point then, license Passport then would move into their new building, opening up that North MOC site, which would be phase two. We'd construct that site from spring of 28 to spring of 29. Uh then at which point uh all the residents in the south would move up to the north and that's where they would live while the south phase 3 is being constructed from spring of 29 uh wrapping up fall of 2030. So that's a real high level of schedule. Um Martin will go on to budget unless there's questions >> questions on the schedule. All right. Um, so the first budget is the licensed passport dance studio. And just to give you a little lay of the land of how the um, slide presents. So going from left to right, you'll see the major cost items as part of the project. Um, then you'll see different milestone check-ins on the budget. So the first one was the master plan estimate that was done several years ago. uh that middle column the schematic estimate that was the estimate we had back in June when we presented that update at the time since then it's gone into the design development stage of the construction design um with that is our current most current estimate here that was completed right near the end of August um so as you can see uh site between the schematic design and design development is about similar the parks section of the project which would really be the playground and the basketball court uh really held similar as well. Building went up slightly. And then you'll also see that the sustainability upgrades that was in the schematic design estimate. Uh that is now also priced into the building with a more efficient mechanical assistant. Um so that number actually came down knowing that some of those design things are implemented into the construction and are accounted for in the construction price. Um so there is about 200,000 remaining in that category which uh based on early estimates is about the cost of adding solar to that roof um that Martin mentioned earlier on. We're potentially looking at bidding that as an alternate and giving that as an option uh for council and the city once we actually get bids back and know what those costs really are and we can choose to accept that or not. Uh you'll also see the the middle line item there, design contingency. Um, so early on in design, uh, we know that there's a project that's going to have some unknowns that we know are going to cost some money to the project and also helps with some of the material selections and material uh, increases as the design progresses. So as those unknowns are identified and those designs are then are completed and put into the plans, as the design progresses, the design contingency reduces as more of those unknowns are um identified and priced or solved. The next line item was escalation. Um knowing that it's not bid day yet, it's not in construction. Uh inflation does happen and there is a price to inflation. Uh that project also has an escalation factor in there to get us to the midpoint of construction. With the theory behind that is some contractors at the start of construction will have less inflation and lower numbers, but there are contractors at the end of the project that would have a little higher inflation for materials and manpower. And at the end of the day, if you estimate to about that middle point, it should even itself out. But again, we'll know that on bid day when bids come in. We do have a construction contingency built into this estimate as well. And really that's meant to cover unforeseen or things that come up during construction. So items like the design contingency and escalation once bid day occurs. Um we know what those numbers are. They're in stone. Those go away. Uh but the construction contingency and the others would remain in place. Uh we do have a line item in there for the construction management bond insurance and general conditions. Um which brings us to a hard construction total of about that 11.179 million. And then there is a soft cost which we describe as things that are not part of the hardbuilt building but are needed to build a project such as divi design costs, permitting, testing, inspections, technology and then furniture and fixtures and equipment that actually go into the building when it's done with the intent to give you what would a total project cost be for the licensed passport dance studio about that 12.955 million uh which is slightly less than the schemat. atic estimates and then also about 1.5 million less than the previous master plan of that 14.5. Um I'll take a minute if you guys want to ask questions or I can move on to and ask questions on all of it if you'd like. >> Questions on this portion of it. Uh council Bower >> on the escalation costs when uh I guess well it goes back to more so bidding when we send this out for bidding. what variable cost do we expect to have in that bidding or uh will for example supplies uh building materials all that be locked in at that time or should we still expect um some variable cost and if so what would those variables be? >> Yeah. Uh very good question council member. Um once we get bids back they would really be locking in or estimating what would their labor increases be for the next couple of years when that work happens. Same with they'd be estimating their material increases. Um the only time I've seen material increases change or have valid requests is if there's a change in tax or change in tariffs that may come into play. But if it's a standard material increase, that is the contractor's responsibility to budget accordingly on bidday and that is at their risk. >> How do you as a construction manager at risk, you know, get the best value out of that? Right. Obviously, we'll I'll bring this up when we talk about the uh MOC, but curious to know what you're doing there to get us the best. >> Yeah, and that's a very good question that uh as a team internally, we've talked um about several different strategies that we will see some contractors make. Uh for some of them to control their risk, they may have yard storage where they may look to procure more of their materials ahead of time and store them rather than purchasing them when they need them and risking the potential for materials to increase in those times that they would be at risk for. Um, some are going to take different strategies to each one, but at the same time, once we receive bids back, we will do a post bid review with each one of them and try to flush out where are they what's their strategy, how are they going to overcome that, and um, you know, really what is their plan to help ensure that the project doesn't see any other increases that are not warranted. >> Thank you. Any other questions? Council member Grath. >> And then on the construction contingency, just remind me that is just also on no one's that you leave there and that continues on after the hard bit is there in case there are costs. But if there are not costs, then that is not used. Correct. >> That's correct. Yep. >> Thank you. >> So that might be something like if there was a giant boulder there needed to excavate something or something worse than a boulder >> that could be oil. Yeah. Well, I didn't want to say that. >> That's a very good example that um we do have geological um soil borings. So, we do have a geological engineer that does try to predict as much as they can on soils, but um some of these soils are going to be difficult. Um and there's strategies to help mitigate that to help limit our risk there. But that's a very good example of an unforeseen that could come up during construction. >> Thank you, Council B. I one last question about the escalation. Uh once a after we um select bids or bids are uh given what would you expect that escalation number to be? Would you expect that still to be at uh what you have 496 here or would you expect that to be some significantly smaller number? >> Um and that that's a very good question and and that is part of the excitement of bid day. um because there are going to be some contractors that may choose the strategy to purchase and store. Some may choose um to take a risk on materials may not go up as much as others may predict they might. Um historically we have seen uh construction escalation in that 3 to 5% a year for example. Um, right now we're assuming about 4% a year, which is middle of the road, but again, until bid day happens, the world keeps changing and um, that's the best we have to predict what that could be on bid day. >> Thank you. >> And just to clarify, the expectation is that that gets absorbed into the bid cost from the from the contractors that are bidding. >> That's correct. Yep. >> So, it wouldn't be it wouldn't remain a separate line item that we're accounting for. It's now part of what they're bidding for the project. That's correct. It'd be part of the bids. >> So, our final cost would have a zero there because it's in other numbers. >> That's correct. >> Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. >> Any other questions on this uh part of the scope? I did have just one uh question on the um the solar. I seem to remember when we did the installations on city hall and the fire station, there were some financing means that were out there at the time that we took advantage of. I don't know if those types of programs or financing is still available or what that looks like today or if we just basically have to build it into our costs and pay for it up front. >> Um that's a great question that it seems like there are different grant opportunities for different um different materials or different things at all different times. Um, I guess we have not specifically explored what grant opportunities there are out there right now for solar, but >> and that may be part of the paying for the project as well, but I seem to recall that it was like um, you know, sort of an entity sort of fronted the construction costs and then we paid them back through, >> you know, selling back electricity or savings on our use or of electricity or whatever it was. Um, and so I just wonder if that structure is even available anymore because that world can change after so many years. Um, so but I just wanted to put it out there as something for us to be looking at. That was all. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I have one more question actually about the park and I guess this is more towards staff. Since we're doing the improvement here, are we offsetting uh or are we able to offset any kind of capital improvements or delay capital improvements? Um, and if so, do we take those into account in the budget already? And if I guess if not, we should. >> Uh, thank you, Council Member Bower, and you're exactly right. Um, we do still have a couple of line items related to Veterans Park in the CIP that essentially would be removed when or at least put down the line for 20 years um if once we move forward with this project. So, um absolutely we are planning to do that. I think with some of the uncertainty pre- bid day, we wanted to make sure that we had that funding allocated somewhere so there were no surprises. But certainly my plan would be once we move forward that those would be then placed you know we'd move further out and would be able to defer those planned capital items. >> And in your CIP budget for Veterans Park, what did number did you have? Was it similar to $447,000? >> Uh it's somewhere around that number. It might be a hair lower than that. And um candidly, we we do plan to um I'm optimistic that we'll do better than that. We intend to do the uh playground with our own vendor um because that makes a little bit more sense. So they're going to build the container. We don't want to do too much coordination, but um so I'm a little optimistic we'll be a little below that. But also um this is several years down the line. We have to remember when that playground goes in and Ken and his team do these estimates every day. So I don't want to push too hard on that. But um we were a little bit lower than those uh that item if we put them all together. Um, but those were in 2027 costs, not necessarily to 2029 costs. >> And the plan is to include this 447 as in the bonding. >> Yes, correct. That's the plan. Yep. Thank you. >> Thank you, council member. >> All right. Anything else on this portion of the budget? Right. I think then we can move on to the portion. >> All right. Uh very similar format and layout uh to the license passport uh for the MOC here. Again, major cost items on the left. Uh the concept estimate as well as that schematic estimate and then our current estimate for the design development. Uh very top item there, the parking lot storm water restoration. Uh you can see that did take a significant jump in this round of estimating. Um partly because that is uh all that storm water that was spread out between multiple sites is now in one spot underneath the licensed passport and dance studio parking lot. Uh you would see the north, you'll see the site and the buildings and the south site and building column. Uh those did have storm water budgets allocated to both of those that then went up to the licensed passport park. One question might be is why those numbers did not go down because storm water moved to a different location. Uh during this estimate, we actually reached out to about 25 or 30 trade contractors. Again, trying to make sure we have a tab on what are the current market conditions. And we did get some feedback from uh the pre-cast vendors, mechanical and electrical contractors that materials have started to creep up um because they are getting um a lot of pressure from data center builds in the area. So those numbers actually increased in the pre-cast mechanical electrical in the building uh but were offset by some of that storm water that went up to the north site. Um you'll see the storm water and construction restoration of the park. This is actually the softball field that gets um smaller. It used to be a baseball field. That parking lot and storm water then croaches into that baseball field. So the softball field is part of the MOC funding. Uh you'll see then the MOC site and buildings, the north and the south. Um the design contingency again as design progresses and continues those numbers start to go down as more of those unknowns are priced in. Um that is also meant to help with some of the materials cost increases during design. So you'll see that did help offset some of those costs as well. There is an escalation um it is a larger number here because uh that is phases two and three that are two and three years out. There's the construction contingency uh also the construction management uh bonds insurance general conditions for a hard construction total of that 57.7 million uh soft costs which include design permitting inspections technology furniture and equipment at that 6.4 4 million, giving us a total project cost of about that 64.1 million, which is about $50,000 under the 64.2 million uh lost revenue. So with that, I'll pause. Any questions once budget? >> Questions? Council Strong? And in my rudimentary understanding, so the last revenue is that we will have collected or we will aspire to collect the 64,200,000 in sales tax revenue over time. To say we're on $52,000 under means that's money that we would not be collecting from the sales tax. We would have to return. Is that correct? So, we are authorized to collect for a certain period of time or until we get to the project cost. So, yeah, if we hit that number early, um, whatever that number is can't be more than the 64.2 million, that's what we're authorized. So, if we came in less than that and we were able to collect more over a shorter period of time, then we would stop collecting the sales tax. >> Okay? >> And just to be clear, LOST, that's a acronym for local option sales tax. It's not actually revenue that's being lost, which I just it took me a minute to to >> Thank you. People were wondering at home, >> not lost revenues, right? >> Local option sales tax, >> right? >> It's kind of a bad >> Yeah, it's one of those acronyms that's unable to have in there. Yes. I just wanted to make sure that given that consideration, if we are under um and we are we have been so far collecting at a rate um least consistent with our expectations, if there would be a possibility of instead of reusing those solar panels on the um maintenance facility, if they could be used on the or some of them could be used on the license and passport center as it is something that we already own and we would want to lower the pricing on that. I don't know. I don't know how mystery math would that would be, but just curious if that's something, >> in other words, put new >> new panels on the maintenance building and reuse the existing panels on the I >> uh license and passport center. Is that something that could be considered? >> Yeah, we can certainly take that back to the electrical engineers for consideration. >> Certainly, we'd have to be under by 200,000 to make that happen. >> I was going to say 50 is not enough. >> Yeah, we're not there yet. Yeah, >> that's not enough. if we want it to be paid for with >> cost. Y >> other questions on this council member Bower. >> So the increased cost of the site buildings you noted I mean the numbers here you can't see because we took the storm water out but just assuming I guess I don't know but did you say it was around how much did you say we pulled out of the say the north for storm water put into the actual storm water line item? Um so it it actually came out of both the the north and the south. So both >> sites are draining to the same location and it it was a fairly significant number. Um that really did make up that difference of that million3. >> Okay. So if it came about I just did some just doing quick math to see if the increase in the the licensed passport center match the same as the north and the south increase and yeah about six to 7%. So, close enough to that. >> Other questions? >> Um, the expansion that you have listed uh in the site plan, what was the cost of doing that? >> Oh, uh, great question. And I can get back to you with specific specifics. I seem to remember it was around $2 million or so. Um, but we can certainly get back to you with that. And then I guess just to put some concern, you know, uh you know, how can can you do say something to help uh put to ease the fact that we said we have 6.2 million $64.2 million available and it comes in at $64.2 million, right? And we've paid you quite a bit to be the construction manager at risk, hoping to, you know, see some um fruits from that, right? So some decreases. Obviously, my dream would be that there would be enough there to fund the uh expansion as well. So you think you can comment on that to make uh feel a little bit more comfortable that it's not just we have this much money to spend and you spent it. >> Um yes great question. So everything gets competitively bid here all the trade contracts. So right now what we are looking at are estimates >> and we did note that there are some risks that we are mitigating with some of these numbers that we also hope do come in better. And with that, there are certainly some alternates the team is considering that um are there ways to maximize that if you desire or are there ways if if it happens to come in over that number, right? How do we what are some of those options to get that back within that number as well. So I do think that we are optimistic to some of that. Um but at the same time, we're also realistic and know that it is get competitively bid at the end of the day. What what things are you most concerned about or feel like most at risk price-wise? >> That's a great question. Um really the three that I noted that we've actually been seeing some pressure uh pre-cast wall panels um and electrical and then mechanical usually are the the big wild cards on these projects. >> Other questions? Are we looking at a um potential of doing an option for something related to the um potential expansion on the south as far as if we want to do some preparatory work foundations or something like that as part of this project if we can uh depending on how the bids come in? Are we thinking about ways to try to incorporate that into our process where we have a better number through bidding rather than sort of just the estimates? Not that the estimates are um to be questioned necessarily too too much, but I think we'd be more comfortable with certainly with firmer numbers if we can. Um I don't know if there's ways to do like packages for just foundation work or foundation of walls or roof or I mean you know can you talk a little bit about how that might be incorporated into the bidding process and whether there's ad advent whether it's advantageous to do that >> because I think there is some interest amongst council members to see for future benefit if we can incorporate any of that at this time. >> Yeah, good question. Um I don't want to speak for Martin and the design team, but currently that is not um an alternate option I guess that we're considering with design. Um certainly it is not till phase three. So if bids do come in, well, there are ways to look at how do you maximize your phase three value um or if there's any other changes you'd like to make to that the MOC South at the time. But >> Martin, any considerations for that expansion? Um, currently we don't we haven't been designing that. Not to say it couldn't be. Um, the biggest impact probably would be schedule-wise and working it in a logical way so we don't slow the more immediate items. But it it's packages are a possibility. We just have to work out how to fit them into the schedule that that we're trying to achieve here, I think, so that they can be priced at the right time. >> Sure. I mean, it just if there's things we could do during this project to anticipate that, it might be nice to have some understanding of that. And once again, I just don't know if it's most appropriate to handle through this bidding process or through some review later on in the project. And and I I staff are both pitching to come up and tell me how much of an idea that is. >> So certainly the the design is is already accommodated for a future building. I mean, it's not designing it, but the the lobby is kind of designed that we could add a wing on, more or less. Um, but to that point, certainly we don't have the budget right now to plan for it. Um, you know, certainly if we come in and bids our we're $3 million under, that could be the opportunity to say, "Hey, let's do that at a we could do that as part of a longer phase three." And certainly we'd have time to do that, but we'd have to do additional design. All we did was concept design for that building. So, we'd have to go through that process. Certainly, it wouldn't take near as long, but but we would have time to do that. But that would be a decision that we'd probably want to wait till we got closer to a to to bid date so you can flesh out all the unknowns because there's there's too many unknowns and if the price is that $2 million, that's that's a lot of money to come down with where we're at. So, that's I think that's the approach we we should should take on what what that step would be and if there's other ways to to go about it. >> Yeah. The the other thing I would add is um to to the comments that were made um we have been very intentional with the understanding of uh even throughout the conversations today we were in eight and a half hours of plan review today um to make sure that the decisions that are made on the current scope of work don't preclude us from that expansion whether it's two years down the line or 10 years. So examples like window placement um even as simple as not planting trees that are going to be really cute now but 10 years from now might be giant trees that people are not going to want to see come down in that space we want so um that has been an intentional part of the planning um but there is a component of uh there would be cost sunk right now if we did the design work I think it would be challenging to tease it out so I think um what what director fryhammer's mentioning of if we came in very very low. We could you know that construction phase is still three years down the line. So we certainly could see what our options would be at that time. >> All right. I appreciate that. Other council feedback or thoughts, questions on council member. >> Yes. Um actually I would support us to keep that in mind though as we are going through this project because costs aren't going to go down as we go forward. So, if there's anything we can do, if if the if the bidding comes in low enough, we would I think it would make sense to try to use this uh project to add those. You know what? And I think the mayor hit on it. Is there certain things we could do? Maybe we don't do the whole thing, but can you put in foundation or walls or something to um to utilize while you have people on site, you know, doing construction? And I know, you know, the design and all that needs to be there, but I think as we're moving forward, that's something that we want to keep in mind that, hey, it looks like we might have a little wiggle room here. So, let's take a look at it. So, I guess the point would be if we can do it, it would be I think it would be a good idea. So, as we're moving forward, at least let's think about it that way. >> Council member Bower, >> there's also a sequencing question, too. We couldn't end up I mean there is $2 million available if we were to change the sequencing right because we have this escalation cost of 4% year-over-year 4% on 64 million what about $2.5 million you'd have to add delays in licensed passport center but it's 4% on 11 million it's about a half million so you have $2 million there so if you change the sequencing which may not be a bad idea if your biggest risk is concerned of material costs and those increasing the sooner you can do it the less variability you up and you can put the license or the license passport um in some temporary space at least some space for a year or something like that and then just change the order if you really are just wanting to do the expansion there is maybe the possibility and I'll leave it to you know our you know and to look at that option but changing a sequencing it might be a possibility to find some monies right council member >> I would not support postponing the license passport center at this time. I would be interested if we have the extra funds to proceed with it when we can, but I wouldn't support that renting space. >> Right, Council Strong? I would concur with that because we had already gone over what it would cost to retrofit a space to accommodate the licensed passport dance center and which is one of the reasons we we opted against um leasing space just that because we need to it is very specific space that needs to be utilized for the purpose and so I just I don't think that's the best I'm not the final say but I'm just saying I don't I agree with with council member on that >> and certainly we have opportunities to discuss that as more is known through bidding and and whatnot. >> All right, other questions. >> Anything else on the presentation? >> Could I have a question from the public? >> We will have an opportunity for public comment as soon as we finish the the staff and consultant and council discussion. I definitely am not forgetting about that part of it. Um any other is there more on the presentation or other information that uh you're providing this evening? I don't want to don't want to cut short any of that with the questions that we just had. >> Um I believe the very next slide is actually just um questions and then discussion and recommendation for actions. >> Right. And and just clarification on uh approving moving the projects to final project. That's essentially to develop the plans and specifications to go out for bids on. Is that correct? >> That's correct. To finish those. >> Yeah. Okay. Got it. Um, so final questions and then we'll open it up for public comment. >> Is there any questions you have for us or anything that you don't have answered that you still feel that need to be answered that would help you um in your next steps? >> Uh, very good question, council member. Um, I feel like your staff and um, city manager here have been very helpful flushing out needs versus wants versus >> uh, being open to suggestions and solutions. Um, hearing your guys' priorities are very helpful as well, knowing, you know, how can we help maximize all everybody's priorities here and get as much as we possibly can for the best value for the city. So, uh, in a long answer, no, you guys have been very helpful already and I appreciate that. >> And I would echo the same comments, we I also didn't have anything additional. The the city staff has been wonderful to work with and getting us the information we need to develop the design. All right. Well, if there's no further council questions at this point, this would be the opportunity to open it up for public comment. So, we'll ask you gentlemen to have a a seat in the audience. And we'll uh just quickly go through the rules of the road for public comment in case somebody didn't hear those earlier in the meeting. Uh that doesn't preclude the first commenter from coming up and getting getting prepared at the at the microphone. Uh but just to remind folks, the uh council rule is a three-minute time limit per speaker. And as hopefully I've demonstrated this evening, I try to be generous and gentle in my enforcement of that. Uh we do ask that you identify yourself by your name and either street or address, whatever you're more comfortable with for the record. Uh questions and comments should be directed to the council. Uh if we need follow-up from staff members or consultants, we'll um ask for that. Uh usually what we do also if there are questions we will sort of defer answering the questions until we've had uh we've heard from everybody in case there are additional questions and then at the end we'll circle back and make sure we give answers to the questions to the extent that we are able to do so uh and might have to follow up on some aspects of it. But uh hopefully with that unless oh and everybody gets one chance to comment on this agenda item. So make the most of it while you're at the table and at the microphone. And with that, I think I've said enough and we'll open it up for public comment. >> Thanks for giving all those ground rules there. I uh my name is Kiki Sonnen. I live at 1758 Huitt Avenue in St. Paul, Minnesota. And I'm actually here for item number eight. But um I uh wanted to say that I am uh the president of the St. Paul Bird Alliance, formerly St. Paul Ottabon Society. And uh we changed our name recently, but we're still affiliated with the National Ottabbon Society. And my concern on this uh big project is it sounds very nice and so forth, but we uh really need to have bird safe glass in the new construction. Uh bird safe glass uh can help stop one billion birds being killed every year by smashing into the windows as as there in migration or even resident birds that live here year round. They smash into the windows and they die of brain bleed, broken beaks, broken bones and so forth. And they can't see with glass, plain glass. They can't the birds can't they see reflections so they think they're flying into a forest but they're hitting the glass at high speed and it's like they get brain bleeds just like CTE and football players. Is that the how the term for anyway? Um, and the good news is that in new construction, bird safe glass adding it into the project costs less than 1% of the total construction costs. And it's also required if any state funds are being used. And uh so it's a wonderful wonderful project and it with a lot of the trees and all that around the the place it it's good but we have to try and cut down birds crashing into glass and it's a very simple thing to do and and economical when it's under new construction. And that's it then. >> All right. Thank you for your comments this evening. Well under three minutes by the way. So special star for you. Hello and welcome Roger H Jr. Wagner Place and in my mind this whole MOC project is because they really the maintenance area where they actually do the maintenance is very inadequate and that's what should be the highest quality and most efficient and most safe it could be. And because you split this up into two parts, you're not able to have that. I mean, now the five bays where they're going to work on vehicles, they can't drive in and drive straight out. Again, if this was all in one up on the north side, they could have that that they could drive straight through. Now, they're going to have to keep backing up like they do now. So, it's less safe. It's more inefficient. Plus, they're not in the same area as their wash station. So, I'm not sure why that's not by the maintenance where they do the maintenance, too. I assume when they're done working on it, they probably go wash them or something. So, I really wish you'd change your mind and go back to the first one because and have everything to the north cuz there's no reason to have it just to try to save the ball field. You have to reconstruct the ball field anyway. You can re put that on other parkland you already own and have plenty of room for more parking and to make the MOC the way it should be more efficient and more safer by being all in the north because I don't know why you want the them taking big fire engines and having to back them out after they work on them when they could just drive straight through like they do at the fire station. So anyway, wish you'd change your mind and make it the best we could have. Plus, I don't know if that's the main thing you need and that's the last thing you're going to build like four years from now, which doesn't make any sense either. They should this whole thing should be done so that the maintenance thing gets done before anything else. And I'd like to see the most bang for the dollar over on the license center dance studio by changing the dance studio to a blackbox theater with a first class dance theater in within it. Then you'd have something you can use all day long every day of the year rather than just a few days and a few hours a day. Anyway, and also you should have you have a lot of empty space for expansion where vehicles are stored. You could put a little tiny like a car wash like they have a lot of gas station where you just drive in and the thing goes around you and then you drive out again instead of having to take all the police vehicles and things to car washes could do it right here. Thank you. Great. Thank you for your comments. Is there anyone from the else from the public who wishes to speak to this item this evening? Yep. Feel free to come on up. Hello and welcome. >> Hi, good evening. My name is Jacob Chatterton and I live uh at Brooks Avenue West. Um so I'm here tonight about the process of how the license and passport center is being financed. So you know as we all know in 2024 voters face these two nearly identical questions. Um question one funded the maintenance center and it passed. Question two funded the license center and it failed. And in discussing this with multiple neighbors in my neighborhood, I I found that almost every single one was surprised to find out that what we were moving forward with was an option that put 100% of the cost on homeowners where only 80% of the users where 80% of the users in fact do not live in in Roseville. Um, by the city's own numbers, Roseville already carries the highest per capita property tax burden of any city in Ramsey County. And our levy has compounded about 37% over the last 5 years, which could head nearly to 48% with this 2027 increase. And now, starting in 2028, property taxes um will be used to pay the debt instead by redirecting the capacity that's freed up when the old fire station and park bonds are retired. So, unfortunately, residents will not see relief. Um, I also have concern about the financing tool that that we've been using um for these types of projects, which is the 1987 law that lets Roseville use port authority um written for clearing blighted land in cities that have no port, including us, which seems to be um never about paying for something like this. Um, in 2012, the city used the same Port Authority power to bypass a vote on $27 million in bonds for a fire station and park improvements. Residents organized and sued. Um, and the case was thrown out, not because the court ruled the city was right, but because the citizen group couldn't afford the $670,000 bond that the court required just to keep the case alive. and a sitting council member at the time went on the record saying that the city's own newsletter misled residents by claiming the courts had sided with the city, but they had not. That question was never actually decided. Um, so, you know, obviously what I I'm not trying to say that any of this is illegal because no court has ever ruled that it is. Um, Minnesota law unfortunately makes it very structurally difficult for ordinary residents to to ever go to court to rule on this financing. whether or not this tactic is proper. Um, which is exactly why it's remained legally untested for over a decade. And that's why council oversight and public pressure, including comments like mine, um, may be the real really the only check that's available to residents. That's all I have, but thank you for your time. >> Thank you for your comments. >> Is there anyone else from the public who wishes to speak to this item this evening? All right. Uh we want to thank folks who have provided comments this evening. Uh and there were a couple of questions. So we'll make sure and uh attempt to address those. Uh the first on the bird safe glass may be an easy answer or maybe not. I don't know. Uh for the consultant to let us know what the plans include in that regard or how we're addressing that or not addressing it. Hopefully addressing it if we can. Um, currently we we don't have bird slave glass on the project. It it is totally doable, something we we regularly do specify when requested. Um, there is a cost to it as was indicated. It's something we could look into. There's uh it's it's technically quite feasible to provide that. >> Is that something we could do as like a bid option or something like that? >> Yes, that's that that is quite manageable. >> Right. Thank you for answering that question. >> You're welcome. Uh, the other question which you may or may not have to stay available for is the question about the efficiency and safety of the repair bays not having the drive-through capability. I don't know if that's a staff question or or who can answer that. >> Yeah, I can speak to that. So, we've certainly discussed this with our staff. In a perfect world, that would be um certainly desired, but speaking with staff, we we certainly accommodate it. The the the new design site is a vast improvement. Um, currently we back into all the existing yard operations. Mainly the the existing or the the new yard that'll be on the north side of the south of the south site will mainly be for access only. So accessing coming into the vehicle bay or accessing into um um the maintenance part. We don't have yard operations going on where trucks are loading so sand salt wash down stuff like that. So we are the M we worked with our mechanics are the ones that will be doing a lot of that. They they are not concerned. Um certainly the upgraded shop and layout provides numerous other benefits. So yes, in a perfect world you'd have to drive through. It is by no means the end all. There are lots of shops that are designed that have back out. And like I said, we're we're not backing out and we're backing out to a way less busy environment. >> Thank you for clarifying that. And the other thing I think in the original sort of need for the facility, if I remember right, was that the existing repair bays aren't even deep enough for our current vehicles. So they don't even fit. Correct. Yeah, >> we're addressing that. >> Correct. Yeah. So, we we'll one of them we only have two um light duty bays and one heavy duty right now which is shared. So, basically we get a we double the amount of heavy duty bays for the larger vehicles like the the large firet trucks or our jettter. And then we have a we have a third bay for an additional bay for light duty as well as we actually have an upfitting bay. Um so really it's a double. And then certainly parks has additional maintenance base kind of for for their side to replace their shop. So um so overall we are perfectly satisfied with the the layout of the the vehicle maintenance. And then speaking to the the the wash bait that's usually done by with with other staff that's really not done by the mechanics. Um that's used more at the end of the day typically when vehicles are coming in from maintenance or at the end of a plow. That's when that's typically been done. Um, and certainly locating over there where we're loading and unloading. Um, actually provides some efficiency and and keeps that kind of keeps that more to the dirty part of the site. Um, so we have more they can wash the vehicle and then bring it back to to park it on the on the south side. So, like I said, very we're the site will certainly work for our operations. And we've had staff for like I said, the mechanics and the superintendents and the foremen have all been very uh integrated as part of this design project. Great. Thank you. Appreciate that answer. I think that was probably uh the answers uh from a technical point of view from the comments. Um and perhaps we can have other other discussion from on the council as to some of the other questions that were raised. Um so I think that covers for now the the questions that were raised. Um we do have the request before the council to receive uh and provide feedback to the report as we've done through the course of this evening. And then the requested action is to approve the uh current status and authorize moving into the the finishing of the final design for bits and and specifications. >> I'd move to approve the moving LPCDS and MOC projects into final construction. >> Second. >> It's been moved by Council Member Grath, second by Council Member Stron to um approve moving these projects into the final uh project design phase. discussion on the motion as the maker. Council member Grath. >> Well, thank you for the reports tonight. They were very helpful. I mean, obviously I had read through them, but it was good to hear your review. It's been a few months we've been working on this, and I like to see the thought that's been put into them. I uh understand from the staff that this is a great improvement on the uh situations they'll be working with. So, that's why I move move to proceed. >> All right. Is the second or council member strong? >> Yes. Um I've been on the advisory uh community advisory group for the last six, eight months. I don't know, feels like forever. Um and so it's nice to see how much we've taken into consideration the needs of people at the VFW and the neighbors. And we really um and I think it's really important that it's not we are losing a baseball field, we are gaining a dedicated softball field. So I think it's really important that we're not saying oh we lose this important thing. It's actually an opportunity to gain something um that really provides value to not maybe only the people who play baseball but maybe the people who play softball get something really great out of the deal. So, I think it's really important, but I see, yes, it's not exactly the original design, but I think we've gotten the buyin from the neighbors. We've gotten the buyin from the VFW. We've gotten buyin from so many different constituencies that are impacted directly that I think it's really important that it's seen as a evolution of their um participation in the process. It isn't exactly what it looked like at the beginning. Um, but that's because it has evolved into something that fits more needs of a lot of people. So, >> right. Other discussion on motion. Council member Shartter. >> Yes. Um, just curious, how does moving into the final project affect things like when we're talking about adding options of maybe doing the expansion and some of these other things? Does that not then if we go into a final project and then that's not possible or I'm just clarification on if we wanted to you know some of these other pieces that we we may want to have as an option. So would it be the final project and but you still have space to say oh yeah can you make sure when you do the bid what what would it take to add this expansion on or how does that work? So my understanding from the answers we got earlier was that from my question was that uh no we wouldn't be able to add those as options to the bid package process at this time and I think that's partly because no design work has done been done towards those at this point um and is not sort of included in the scope of what we've been talking about up to this point. I think what I'm hearing is is that um those are still valid things that that can and should be looked at depending on how the bids come in. Um and the appropriate time to do that would be at the time we are looking to add that to the scope in some fashion and we could probably handle it as potential change orders through the contractor contractors at the time that we look to add it. Um, but I think a lot seems to me from my perspective, I was fairly satisfied with that answer in the sense that we don't have any design that's been done to go out for bids on at this point on an option. >> Um, but we need to understand the the financial aspects of where the bids come in before we can really determine whether we can put that design together and and add that to the project. >> So, what you're saying that that would just be a change order at the time then? >> I would I would imagine that that's probably how that would be handled. Correct. Correct. I was trying That's what I'm trying to >> correct. Yeah, it could certainly be done as a change order. Certainly, it could be bid out separate. Um, obviously, we would likely want two contractors on the site. So, a change order would most likely be best, but we um we certainly don't want to add it to the design now because that would delay the bid and that would cause more delay and we obviously don't want more delay because that'll cause escalation to go up. So, that's why since it wasn't in the >> when we got to concept design, it wasn't in the budget. we didn't proceed with adding it at that point because why keep designing a project that we don't have budget for. So, and that was kind of an always an add-on that if we could, but certainly if bids come in very favorable, we do have time. I mean, we we we'll open bids in late 26, we won't break construction on that phase until 29th, >> right? Because I guess my point was being if if final means final and that we can't add anything or >> Yeah. I mean, I guess it's just to move forward with what we're going to what what the current scope is for. So basically what we're saying to what we're asking is that we want to get the final numbers for this project as it stands now. Is that what this what's being asked? >> Yeah. Basically prepare the final plans based on the current scope. >> So then we'd have the the closer numbers at that point. Okay. >> Yeah. And that would be brought back to you in October for final release with those final numbers and the final bid package to authorize it to go off for bid. So you'll see this one one more time, but to to answer the question, it would have to be a change order. So basically what we're you're asking is that okay no more changes no more this is what we want to be able to get the numbers to and that's what you're asking >> so they can finish up the final final >> I just want to clarify that thank you >> ask questions >> so and the additional part of that is is that once we get the final design in October the next step would be for us to authorize going out for bids on the basis of that design so just so that council follows the steps in the process >> um with the objective of receiving the bids approximately November and awarding in December. All right. Other discussion on the motion. All right. And I did want to address a couple of things that that have been brought up both this evening as well as uh in prior discussions, but I won't get into it in too much depth necessarily, and that is the the question of of the the leasing the space versus building a facility. I think the discussion that we had at the time that that decision was made uh last year uh was that uh at least the the majority of the council felt that it was appropriate to um if we're going to be spending millions of dollars over the next several years uh to uh for such facilities that it was uh better to have an asset in our hands at the end of it uh as opposed to uh paying for uh improvements to somebody else's property and paying them rent and utility and such and such costs. Uh and at the end of it not having anything that the city could use for whatever purpose the city might want to use uh or need to use uh such a facility for. Uh it doesn't mean that that is the universally held uh belief by everybody involved or even everybody in the community but that was the decision basis uh that the council had at the time of that decision. Um the other aspect of it I think is that um the looking at the financing although final decisions haven't been made on that um the the existing levy capacity that's being used currently to pay off the bonding for the fire station and the parks facilities um is um probably just based on my own back of an envelope analysis probably more than what the cost for especially given some of the numbers we were seeing on the license and passport center dance studio uh project would come in at and so there's still an opportunity for savings to the taxpayers and I will express from my own point of view that I would uh would be looking to uh not use up all the difference between the actual bonding costs for this project as well as uh and what the original bonding cost was for the parks and fire station project. Uh um and I'm I'm very strongly committed to that from my perspective. So uh I can't speak for the rest of the council, but that's that's where I'm coming from on it. And uh also just a point that that uh all these numbers we're looking at right now are still estimates and budget numbers and we'll know a whole lot more when we get the final bids in from the from the biders and that'll tell us a lot more about where we're at. Um any additional discussion, Council Member Sher? >> Yes. Um how long were we leasing the uh uh license center dance studio before we decided to uh take that building down? Do you know? It was at least two or three cycles of renewals which were maybe >> I think we've been over there since 2000. >> Yeah. >> So, we've been we've been leasing for like 25 years. >> Well, up up until 2018 when we purch 18 years we we were leasing on that and um Yeah. And I think you know and and thank you mayor for for discuss because it was the majority. It wasn't the full council that had agreed on that but it was the majority who had uh determined that. So, um, and as as you know, you know, the majority, um, is is the the route we have to take. >> And I did also just I'll recognize council member Bower first. >> Oh, I was just going to point clarification. I don't know if you brought that discussion up because I mentioned leasing. My comment about may you misheard, but my comment about leasing was to lessen the escalation. >> No, I understood that. >> I wasn't trying to bring that issue back. >> No, I that was from public comment and comment we heard uh in previous feedback from the public more recently. Um the other thing I just wanted to note is and I understand the perspective of of people who um have expressed how they um interpreted the the two questions and how they came up with their vote on it. And the point I did make at our discussion last year when we had these conversations was that I'm not sure that any of us can say for sure what was in the minds of all 20,000 people uh in the community that voted one way or another on uh those questions. And so I I just caution on being too presumptive about, you know, where everybody was coming from. Uh it was a very specific question and we got a very specific answer and that's all we really know for sure. So with that, um I don't know that there's anything else on this particular motion to advance the project to the next stage of design and finishing up the design. If not, all those in favor signify by saying I opposed. >> That passes unanimously and we move to the next stage. Thank you again to the consultants, to staff, and everybody that's been involved in this process. And uh to the neighbors who've been involved in the stakeholder group that council member Stron mentioned earlier. I think a number of the changes that we made from the original plan when the issue went before the voters uh come from feedback that we've received from the neighborhood to the west uh as well as our work with the VFW. And that's a lot of how this project has evolved to the point we're at. With that, I'm going to suggest it's 8:30 that we take our normal 8:00 break. Uh so about a 5minute break and we'll be back shortly after that. >> Appreciate it. >> Yeah, no problem. One piece here. It's going to come down, folks. All right, we're back from our short break here uh reconvening at approximately 8:33 to take up our next item which is to consider an appointment uh to a to the equity and inclusion commission of the volunteer commissioner. Uh and u Mr. Treman, I don't know if you have a brief introduction of this. >> Uh you said it, Mr. Mayor. We're looking to have the council appoint one member uh to fill a vacancy to the equity and inclusion commission. This uh term is a partial term ending March 31st, 2028. In the packet um you all went through interviews. Uh spent an evening interviewed several candidates. There's a tally sheet as attachment one that shows the preferences of everybody and I'll let you five sort that out who you want to appoint. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Treasur. And once again, it is one vacancy. It's a partial term ending in uh March of 2028. Uh council uh what's the desire of the council? Council member Grath >> like to move to appoint Dan Johnson Powers. >> Second. >> All right. It's been moved by council member Grath. Second by council member Stron to appoint Dan Johnson Powers to the Equity and Inclusion Commission. Uh discussion on the motion. Council member Grath as the maker. Well, we all uh you know had had him on our tally list and also the uh chair of the commission had a strong letter I thought of support for him and made some very good points on why he would be a good addition to the commission. So that's why I'm supporting him. >> Right. Council member Stron, >> I concur and I also again thank the many people who came back for um to join us again and we really had we had a really strong pool of candidates and thank you again for your willingness to uh join us in this spot and if not here maybe somewhere else in the future. But thank you again. >> Other discussion on the motion? Um and I I would just add that uh and echo the comments about the great candidates. Uh we were just uh Pat and I were at a meeting of uh some of our eight other neighboring cities uh and a couple of the cities were just putting in place uh term limits for their advisory commissions uh after having some people serving for like 20 30 and 40 years. Oh dear. >> Um and they wondered how it would go and I I not this meeting but in prior discussions have let them know that we always have >> great pools of candidates for all of our volunteer commissions. So you don't have to fear if you put term limits in place which I think does help with some of the turnover uh or you know getting new ideas into the process which is why we did it. >> With that uh the only other thing I wanted to note is that uh that um on the second uh preference um it was a close call in my case between the person that everybody else seemed to have as their second choice uh and uh and the person that I listed. But I did want to encourage once again all the people that applied. Many of them were repeat applicants from our spring round of appointments to definitely consider uh applying again in the spring when there'll be a lot of vacancies on a lot of commissions. And with that, we've got the motion before us to make that appointment of Mr. Johnson Powers. Uh if there's no further discussion, all those in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. >> That passes unanimously. That appointment is made. Uh that brings us to section eight of our agenda, which is council direction on council member initiated agenda items. We have one item 8A, which is to provide direction on a potential future agenda item initiated by council member Grath related to our street lighting policy. Uh and I will turn it over to council member Grath uh to uh discuss uh uh why he's brought this for as a council member initiated item and make his case to the council for uh taking it up as a future agenda item. Thank you, mayor. Um, the reason I I felt uncomfortable with this this uh ordinance when we passed it, I didn't seem to be quite what the residents wanted at the time, but we have had it in place for a while now, and I get calls on this ordinance more than almost anything else. And that's why I think it's time for the council to revisit it because it is not meeting the needs of the the neighbors and the community. Um, I think we should listen to our residents with what they want on their in their immediate neighborhoods and there should be some way of a variance or an opt out or something of that sort on this street light policy so that when you are next to natural um elements where it could be interrupting the night nocturnal animals or even just for the the uh people who live there who want more quiet and dark in their neighborhood, it should be available and I think if you under other things that we have here at 60% uh do not want something then it uh it's brought forward probably to a variance committee or to the city council or it could be to the public works and environment and transportation committee um to explain why you feel it should not and I think at some point we should probably list three or four factors that would be taken into consideration other than just having a blanket lighting policy for the whole city. So those are my arguments. >> All right. Are there questions from the council for council member Gra on this proposal? Hearing none, are is there any objection to bringing this forward uh as a future agenda item for the council to take up? Hearing no objection, uh then it will be on a future agenda. I think our other item of discussion in relation to this is any uh council preference as to timing and any scope or parameters of the discussion uh at that time. This would be the opportunity to kind of >> I would like to have I would like us to have a hold on these lights on the the neighborhood up on Hilltop until this is decided. >> Council, we already have that in place. We will not be going ahead with this project until we sort this particular issue out. Um >> Yep. Correct. They've been we've we've we've informed Excel to put that whole pro those three or four lights on hold. >> Perfect. >> Until we give them direction to go back. Do you have any idea what the timing would have been? Um, >> when we sent the letters out originally, that was three weeks ago, it would probably would have originally happened. We we give a 30-day notice and then we tell Excel to go, they would have probably done them within a week or two of that. So, >> so October, >> they would have done that. But, I mean, at this point, if if it if it's till next year, it's literally not a big deal to Excel. It's just it's a it's a very small project in the grand scheme of things. >> So, that's on hold on someone until you guys give us to go ahead. We won't uh till we get direction, those lights won't get installed. >> Well, I'd like to visit it sooner rather than later, but also I know we have a busy schedule for the fall. So, you know, I I trust the city manager's ability to get into the agenda at some point. >> For instance, probably not our next meeting, which has both an EDA that's busy and a council that's busy. >> I don't think we need to do that. >> Council, any other thoughts or direction to staff on this? Council member Sher. >> Um, yeah. And I think well I'm I'm comfortable now that things are on hold because I think to me that's where the urgency was. I didn't want you know something to happen while we were waiting for this. So at least that gives us a little more breathing room on it. So um but I would also say if someone else other than you know this particular project or someone else comes forward um with a not wanting something done I think we'd want to also consider that as well not just this particular look. >> Agreed. potentially hold that project. >> Yeah. Any project coming forward until we any project until we look at this. If someone comes forward and says >> any street lighting project, >> street lighting project, >> we don't want any maintenance center projects. >> No, no, no, no. This what we're talking about >> and and Mr. Fryhammer, if you >> So, just for clarification, so we I I believe there's 44 lights going in. We've only we've put on hold the the Hilltop neighborhood. only if people come forward and say >> if they have concerns about the light going in. Okay, we have >> but I would even say if those concerns can't be addressed by answering questions and providing information and somebody being satisfied at that point. >> That's clear. Thank you. >> Yeah, >> council member Bower. Um, I'll leave it to staff to decide, but if there's something the situation going on over in AASO area with street lights and those hs, if there's something that staff wants to discuss related to that, I think that would be I'd welcome hearing that discussion if you feel it's beneficial. >> Yeah. So, I I'll just add it's it's related to street light policy, but it's kind of separate. It's more related to the assessment. So, we have had the public works, environment, and transportation commission looking into that to clarify because that that's enhanced lighting. So, kind of the opposite direction of this. So, like I said, it's similar but not related, but it's in the street light policy. So, we've been just trying to pull that apart and put what's supposed to be in the assessment policy and maybe modifying the enhanced part of it. But we could certainly mimic that, pull that as part of the discussion or give an update on on that when we do bring it back. >> I think yeah, there we are. We are planning to bring that back to the we commission gave us in we're planning to bring that back in the September meeting an additional update on that portion of it. >> So it may or may not be approp you know timing match the timing of this but we'll leave it to staff as council member power said. >> Council member Strong um I just want to make sure that as we bring it forward we're really clear about what we're hoping to achieve because we have talked about it at least twice in the last year and spent a lot of time on it. And so I think we should be really specific about what the goal is. And I think one of the reasons that we weren't willing to differ deviate was because those people aren't going to live in that space forever. and we want to make sure that we have, you know, as many consistent but obviously there's always gray areas, but I think we just need to make sure we're really clear about what constitutes, you know, when is it possible, like you said, going to the they can appeal a certain amount of people, but 10 years from now, it could be a total different makeup and it could be a total different group of people. So, I just don't want to keep taking ours and city staff's time on the same agenda item if we're not going to go look at it from a different point of view or if we're not we don't have different goals in it. So, I I mean I just feel like we kind of ended the same last two times pretty much the same place. And so, I just feel like I want to make sure that we we kind of we define this process before we get too deep into it, I guess. No, I think that's that's a valid point too and I think that'll come up through the discussion I think as we go go to that agenda item. Um because it's it is worth noting that uh that our rules of procedure are such that we're not supposed to be taking up matters that we've already made decisions on. Again, u doesn't mean doesn't happen, but that's kind of the idea is that once a decision is made, a decision is made. So that being said, we've got it uh planned for future agenda. Uh TBD at this point or I don't know. >> Yeah, I'm sitting here right now. U we'll have to talk, but I think we have some availability on agendas in October. Okay. Like mid October is probably where I'd be shooting for, but we I'd want to make sure there's sufficient time for staff to do the research needed and bring back some thoughts on it. But just I know there's public out there as well. We'll certainly stay in touch with everybody that's been involved uh so far, but just as you leave this place uh probably at mid-occtober is when we bring it back to the council, >> right? But we'll certainly follow up with specific timing. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Good. All right. Anything else on this item? >> Very good. Thank you again. Uh that brings us then to consideration of city council minutes. We've got two sets of minutes. One is from the August 19th interviews with commission candidates. Uh and the other is the August 24th uh council meeting uh regular council meeting. Uh we've had a chance to look at these. There have been uh uh comments and feedback from council members to staff and those have been incorporated into the drafts that we have before us this evening. Uh council, any other changes or corrections or a motion to approve one or both uh sets of minutes. >> Move approval of both sets of minutes. >> Second. >> It's been moved by Council Member Grath, second by Council Member Bower to approve both sets of minutes as presented. Uh discussion on that motion. Council member Grath as the maker. >> No. >> Council member Bower. Other council members. By hearing none. All those in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. That passes unanimously. That brings us to our consent agenda. >> Mr. Dudgeon. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Agenda item 10 A approves payments in the amount of $4,130,699.76. Item 10B approves an expenditure uh uh for a police vehicle to be uh be purchased to be used for the contracted overtime which will be paid from the funds received from conducting the contracted overtime and the purchase uh and installation of fencing around Concordia Park ballfield. This action also approves the sale uh/tradein of public work public works and police vehicles. Item 10 C approves the massage therapy establishment license for Zebra Body Works at 2310 County Road D as a sole proprietor. Item 10 D uh approves entering into a 2-year contract with Law Enforcement Labor Services Local 436, which represents the Roseville Police Sergeants. Item 10E approves a 2027 city health insurance contribution for the city employees. This action holds the city's contribution to the $206 amount and reduces the opt out payment of by $100 uh for those that aren't taking a health insurance uh that is consistent with the city manager's budget presented on August 24th. Item 10F approves entering into an agreement with Ramsey County to receive a beactive B green grant for 11 benches to be placed on Cleveland Avenue, County Road B, and Lexington Avenue. Item 10G adopts a resolution of support for the long-term vegetative maintenance of the Jones Lake project in partnership with the Rice Creek wershed district and the cities of New Bright in St. St. Anthony Village. Then finally, t item 10H approves the acquisition of easements from property owners at 258 and 2510 Marian Street for storm water project to mitigate a drainage uh problem in that neighborhood. And that is the consent agenda. All right. Thank you, Mr. Treon. Is there a motion related to the consent agenda? >> So moved. >> Second. >> It's been moved by council member Graph. Uh second by council member Bower. Uh discussion on the motion. >> Uh I just want to note there was some feedback from residents on Marian Street or a resident on Marian Street representing other residents earlier today saying that they're very grateful for that storm water project going forward and had no issues otherwise with it. >> Um hopefully I'm not mischaracterizing that. >> I know it's been a problem. I may have elaborated on the comments a little bit. Uh with that, if there's no other discussion on the motion, we've got the motion before us uh to approve the consent items. All those in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. That passes unanimously. Those items are approved. Uh finally, uh future agenda review, communications, reports, and announcements from council members. And I'll turn it over first to Mr. Trean to review our upcoming agendas. >> Yes. Uh as mentioned, September 21st, we have uh two meetings, an EDA meeting and city council meeting. on the EDA meeting. We'll talk about the EDA budget. We've talked about it several times. There's just been some adjustments based off uh my last proposal for the budget. We just want to get make sure it's all in sync. Uh we do want to have a discussion about the EDA attorney proposals. Um looking to narrow that down to um I believe we ended up with four and we would like to do some interviews. U council member Gra has served on the scoring committee. Uh but we would u be looking to have one more council member sit in that interview process. So just I'll put that out there for consideration. Um looking to apply for a grant from council for manufactured home inspections and also discuss a loan program for manufactured home. I know uh community development Gunlac director Gunlack sent out an email with some background on some of these. So certainly if you have any questions even feel free to reach out to her at the regular meeting. We do have the land use items for the um MOC and LPCDS that is changing the comp plan uh and the zoning from what it is now to institutional also the subdivision and conditional use. We also have to officially vacate a portion of the park where the LPCDS is located that one strip. Um and then uh we'll get through all that. Um and that'll be another milestone to keep the project moving forward. Uh we also will be receiving the finance commission recommendation on the 2027 budget proposal. I think they're meeting tomorrow night if I recall uh to finalize their recommendation. We also have a joint meeting with the parks and recck commission. And the 28th we have a proclamation for indigenous days uh indigenous people's day u proclamation. We also be looking to approve the preliminary budget and levy for both the city and the EDA. We also want to bring forward an agreement uh between the city and university of northwestern St. call for a police department training and wellness site uh close to their campus in the strip mall uh back uh in that area by the former Dina office building uh that they own now. Um so we'll bring that forward uh for your consideration and then you can see the October meetings listed there. I'm in particular thinking that October 19th is kind of more of a work session that might be a great time to bring back um discussion like that. We'll confirm that with everybody. >> That's all I have. All right. Uh questions on future agendas? Uh council member initiated items for future agendas or reports, announcements, communications. All right. I do want to report one thing from our I mentioned earlier the meeting with the nine other or eight other communities around us. One item that's been a fairly uh important issue to Little Canada recently has been uh what they have called uh tactile wellness services. I think that's the best best way to describe it maybe. Um, which is a particular business that's looking to operate in their community offering um therapeutic cuddling for lack of a better word or phrase. Um, and they've been struggling through the the ability to regulate that. It's certainly not a massage service and doesn't fall under those >> regulations. Um uh but uh as we were hearing their their story uh I did turn to Mr. Trojan and suggest that we might want to be proactive about being ready for the wave of of tactile wellness businesses that may may start to move their way towards Roseville. So certainly not a future agenda item, but just to make the council aware of the matter and the issue. Um and uh and you know think twice before you Google it on what device and where you do these and I'll just that's all I'll say there. Um uh the other thing um I think it may make sense not as a specifically council uh member initiated item necessarily but I think at some point it may make sense to talk to the code enforcement staff about looking at some of our parking and vehicle regulations. Yeah. You know based on some of the issues we've been seeing um and where we might want to make some tweaks. So I no specific time frame where it's I wouldn't even call it necessarily a council member initiated um unless there's you know an objection from the council to to thinking about that down the road. >> I know that uh some of our residents have asked that we devise a policy around the data centers. I know we have expressed that we may or may not have enough space to do that, but it is a regular um concern of people and so if we possibly put you know some time into what we would consider how we would address that or what kind of environmental impact we're willing to take on from um such a type of business that would be important. I know at one point we talked about putting a limit on the massage therapy um places and we don't have that. We haven't talked about it in a while. I don't know if that's something we want to revisit. >> Yeah, something we've been talking internally, but we need to get it up to the city council. We haven't included that discussion and how to best do that. I think that's certainly on our work list of things to do and look to strengthen the ordinance any other way we can. We did that a couple years ago, but there's always ways to >> I don't know if we need to have uh specifically, you know, everyone is trying to come up with some of them after the fact after there's been something big that came up, but I don't know if a council or as a city we need to have an AI policy and how we would utilize that, but um it's something that, you know, is is mentioned and um in a lot of different HR settings. And then I don't know if um uh council member Schroeder was able to attend the League of Minnesota City's event last night. Well, last week, were you able to attend that one on flock cameras? >> Oh, the Ramsey County League of Local Government in the morning at 8 a.m. >> Actually, our police chief was >> Yeah. Were you able to attend? >> Excellent. I think we had at least three council attending. >> I wasn't able to attend. >> Yeah. So, yeah. And some of the staff I thought it was good. It >> was very good. And I think I I was just going to bring that up because I think that uh at some point in the future we maybe I know we have it on our website but >> perhaps have uh Chief Cider present abbreviated update on that at some time because >> your presentation was so good. I was thinking that that would be a great one to have the public to see or even have it during a council meeting or even whatever separately. I think that would be very beneficial. We may be able to get the video and put it up on our YouTube page. >> That would be a really good >> I think that'd be good. >> I'd prefer that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think Yeah. >> And then I uh attended the climate um kickoff that they had at Showtime Theater the other night as did council member Gra and uh it was really well attended. It was different people than I've seen at a lot of the other climate action events. So, it was nice to um see just how it can touch different people in different ways at different sites and different venues. So, again, >> yeah, and they had a good review of the climate equity action plan and I had a lot of information out and people were really interested in looking through the brochures, picking up things, learning about it, >> and there was a lot of requests for some of the book titles that I had mentioned in some of the meetings. And so I don't know if that's something we would they're so nerdy, but there it's really um some really great um things that maybe there would be a place for some point if someone was really interested in or maybe that'd be something that one of the coffee shops could sponsor. But there was a lot of interest in people learning more about climate action um especially in the city context. And just to clarify on the a not the AI policy, I was going to I staff may have something already in terms of employee. >> That's another thing we're working on and every city is looking to how to how to best manage that, >> but it was the data center thing. Uh I just wanted to clarify with council member Strong if that was intended to be a a specific initiated agenda item for a future council meeting or more of a general something we should be looking at. >> I think it's something that we should be looking at as a as a policy, but I'm not sure. It's probably better spoken to how what other cities, you know, it's all kind of nobody knows, nobody seems to know quite how they're going to regulate it at the city level and if there's even that ability. >> If I could suggest maybe we just can have some internal conversation about what our current regulations are in place to regulate something like that because there are thresholds for environmental review and you know it gets to a certain level and I think what you are seeing in other cities are moratoriums and moratoriums aren't the permanent solution. You have to have regulations. You have to find some way to allow it through regulation. And um we might have things already in place that would properly do that. I just don't know. So I think before we get too far down that road, maybe we just have an internal conversation with staff which we can report back out to the council kind of about where, you know, where we think this would fit in if this would be allowed and what's what's the um possibility of uh senator being here. I know the large ones get all the focus, but there are smaller ones. Right. >> Right. You know, so that's probably where might be some potential uh to look at, but you know, at the same time, um there's going to need to be some ability to regulate it. You just can't prohibit it, >> right? >> So, I think that uh if I remember right, there was something in the uh climate equity action plan about the city taking a look at that. So, it would certainly be in line with that to have some of those start those conversations. So, I think if the city could uh staff could bring forward ideas and we can address or move forward. I mean, I don't know that it needs to be immediate as we had discussed budget and everything, but um maybe sometime here as we wind up the year or early into the next year that we have um some actions and possibly vetted out by the pew or other groups that would be have interest in >> it. It's probably a lot of a land use and zoning type thing, I'm guessing. So, the >> be more planning. Okay. >> More planning. >> So, for what? But maybe combinations of people. But anyway, we don't have to solve it tonight. >> No, >> it's on it's on the radar. Yep. All right. Uh getting us focused back on our last item on the agenda, unless we have anything else. >> What's that? >> Could be anything. >> Mayor might surprise us. >> I know. >> I move to adjourn. >> Second. Thank you, Council Member Grath. Thank you, Council Member Bower. Uh, we have a motion to adjurnn at 8:58 p.m. Uh, no discussion on a motion to adjurnn. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> Opposed. That passes unanimously and we are adjourned. Thank you everyone.