I now call the regular school board meeting for Forest Lake Area Schools, Wednesday, August 26th, to order. Please join us while we recite the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Member clerk, please take the roll call of attendance. >> All right. Member Reveline >> here. >> Member Antonson is here. Member Tyson >> here. >> Member Corkran >> here. >> Member Castle >> here. >> And member Christensen >> here. >> And everybody's here. >> Great. I would entertain a motion to approve the agenda. So move. >> Second. >> Is there any discussion? >> Yes, I have discussion. No. >> Member Tyson. >> I you know I would like to see more collaboration and better communication on what's on the agenda. Um tonight, um I'm looking at 71 and review the vendor list. And I just feel at this time of year with school on the doorstep that we could be looking at safety and security or other items like that. And um I'm not sure if the vice chair was aware of the vendor list review and discussion. I mean, I know I wasn't and I was out of town and then I just saw it. So if we could have better collaboration and commi communication, that would be great. >> All right. We'll take that under adisement. We did discuss the vendor list last August, uh, which is why it came back again this August. That was a commitment I made. >> That was new to the agenda last year without notice. We typically don't have it on there. >> I see. And then, uh, safety and security, um, I spoke with Superintendent Jacobson about earlier today. We're going to address that in early September and we're going to expand, um, that discussion some more. Uh, please reach out to me if you have disc uh, questions on that as we put that together. And I think last year was the first year we had the review of the vendor list and it was put on by former member Hegeland and yourself. So, um I just think more notice and more communication and collaboration around what goes on the agenda would be very helpful for all of us to work together. >> Sure. And as always, if you have suggestions for the agenda, please reach out and I'll be happy to consider them. >> Great. Thank you. >> Do we have any other discussion on the agenda? I'm curious to know how much notice is enough notice for something to be on the agenda if it's something that the two of you work to put together >> and you put it out the I can't even remember the dates the Friday before for us. >> Yep. >> And then it goes public Monday. So >> yeah, and usually I ask >> if it's I mean if it's something that we've talked about a year ago that it's going to be a yearly thing. We didn't >> agree that it was a yearly thing. I my suggestion was that finance committee could look at this and then if they had things that were found about the board chairs on finance, then it could come to the board. >> Um, we get a board bill in every packet. So I'm I'm I'm feeling like maybe it wasn't necessary to upload 70 different pieces of documents into the board book when we get a bill run every week that we get every month that twice a month when we have a meeting. >> So and I just think the topics around school starting would be more important for parent listeners or our community listening as well. I find it just a lot easier to look at this document as far as yearly totals for vendors and so I I just don't see why it's a problem. >> Well, it's not a problem. I'm just suggesting that it could be done a different way at finance committee instead of like right at the board table for the vendor list. >> Okay. >> Okay. Is there any other discussion on this? If not, all those in favor signify by saying I. I. >> Those opposed. >> Okay. The motion carries and the agenda is adopted. Which brings us to our first topic tonight. We have a presenter here from uh the Minnesota School Board Association to discuss strategic plan and the board self evaluation. I'd like to welcome uh Gail Gilman. >> Thank you, Chair Rebeline. I appreciate that. It's good to be here with all of you this evening. I uh drove up from I live in Newal so I drove there and then I was sharing with Superintendent Jacobson that I um picked up a MSBA vehicle in St. Peter and then got to tackle the uh the traffic and all those fun things on the way up. But it was a lovely drive and it's a lot better than when it's 60 below windchill and I'll take this anytime. So it's good to be here. It's good to see all of you. When I walked in the door, I said, "It feels like coming home." Because I spent a lot of time here a few years ago when we were working on your strategic plan. So, it's good to be back. Um, obviously, I've interacted with folks in that since that time, but just haven't been back here on site. So, again, good to be back. I'm looking forward to visiting with you about your board self- evaluation as well. The last time that the board took it, you probably noticed, was in, I think it was 2022. it was shortly after the strategic plan had been um wrapped up and so you are probably due to do this again and have a discussion and I think it may tie into a next strategic plan as well but I think we'll be talking about that in a little bit too. So for those of you that I've not met I I feel like I have interacted with each of you before but um I have been with schoolboards association since 2017. My educational background is in family and youth education. My degrees are from the University of Minnesota and I was on the faculty at the U of M for a long time working with families and youth and uh then I had an opportunity to segue and work with Minnesota board on aging which was a pretty a pretty perfect experience at the time. I could utilize my skills a lot of the caregiving and my parents were getting older. both have since passed away, but those skills were not, you know, they were helpful for me personally and then certainly for the folks that I served. And then uh joining the school boards association um my interest in that is I'm a former schoolboard member and some of you are aware of that. I served on the new on board of education for two terms and uh over those years I served as the vice chair most of the time and then usually clerk if I wasn't vice chair. I also represented our board on the um Riverbend education district. So got to learn a lot about special ed. So that was really special special opportunity too. So my heart's still kind of with the new on board, but it's actually more fun now to be interacting with boards around the state. So I'm I'm happy to be here. It would be helpful for me for each of you. I know you did your roll call, if you could just introduce yourself, tell me how long you've been on the board. Some of you longer than others. I know that. And I would love to hear one thing that you are really proud of about your school. So we can start on an end or we can do popcorn or I can pick somebody volunteers. Would you? >> I can start if you want to go end to end. >> Okay, we can do that. >> Or you can go next to Mark if you want. Mark. >> Sure. >> Um, so I've been I'm in my fourth term and I've been on the school board 17 years because we had the extra year added. Some of us lucky ones got five years >> in that term. And um probably something I'm just really proud of is the upward trajectory our district has been on. >> Um our buildings look fantastic. Our stadium, there's always means, right? But our academic um plan with um joining um the gateway courses and joining our middle school with our high school career pathways is just something I'm really proud of. and we did present at the leadership conference and member Antinson was there and people were just really really interested in how we've come so far with that and how we got to that place. >> Okay, sounds good. Thank you, Member Tissson. I appreciate that. Should we just go around the >> Sure. Um I'm Jill Christensen. I'm in my first um term. Um uh and uh one thing I'm very proud of is um we're kind of turning around our um enrollment numbers, which is really exciting. We were sort of a declining >> or stable sort of declining um district uh for a little while there. And so I'm really excited to see the numbers creeping back up and super I mean we have so many things to be proud of and so I'm I'm really proud that >> that our enrollment is creeping up. >> Good. Great. We don't often get to hear that from a lot of schools, so you can pat yourselves on the back. Thank you, Member Christensen. >> Hi, uh Julie Corkran. Uh I've been on this is my fifth term, so it's almost I guess be 20 years this year. Um so I guess for me, I've just seen such an increase. Um just I for me it's the bond the bond that we passed that I am truly being part of that process for many years trying to get that done. I just feel like that was such a turning point for our district where we the pride level that I feel when we go to our buildings now and and uh just to see everything new and fixed up and the like say the stadium the track >> I mean all those just an extra bonus and I just remember back when >> it wasn't that feeling like you feel now when you go into those buildings and I feel like being part of that has just it's given me great pride >> so and I feel like all the students feel it too to be proud to be there. So that's that's one of the things most of the things I'm proud of. >> Wonderful. Thank you, Member Corkran. >> We're gonna we're going to ask superintendent. Yeah. >> Uh so I this is my uh second month as superintendent of the school district. Uh 11th year in the school district. I that's a challenge to say to narrow it down to one thing that I'm proud of. So I will just go with something that's real recent. Okay. Uh, and I would say our business community partnership with our school district. Just this morning, we hosted 48 business owners. Oh, wow. >> Who sat in small group circle hosted by Mr. Caldwell, Molly Bonnet, Mike Miron at the high school. Um, looking at what we do around employability skills and having conversations about that and watching our business community get up early and clear their calendar and sit down and and engage in us with this work to help us make sure that we're pointed at the right skills. >> Um, that's unique in school districts. 48 business owners. Uh, and I think that that is a real great asset here at Force Lake that we have that. >> That was a good share. That just worked very nicely for you today and that is a very important important um partnership too to have that set up. Thank you. >> Yeah, that's good news. So um >> I'm Kurt Revline. This is my first term as well and uh gosh, it's really hard to narrow it down. Superintendent Jacobson nailed that. I I I wrote down a couple of things, but there probably two things that I I look back on and say what am I most proud of, especially in the last couple of years of this district is when I was first elected, our academic performance was as low as it's probably ever been. And it's on the steady increase. And I I think that's really critical >> that uh school districts really focus hard on academics. And on a more boardsp specific level, I'm proud that this board has been bold and that we've been willing to address difficult topics at the state level and that we're making major positive change, not just in our district, but across the state. >> Okay. >> Thank you, Chair Revel. >> Um, yeah. Okay. Very tough to narrow it down. Um, and I my name is Tessa Antonson. I've been on the board for about a year and a half. This is my first term. Um I am very proud that we hired Director Jacobson into the superintendent and that we as a board um with our uh ongoing just little kurfles here and there, but we were able to come together for that great moment and I'm very proud of that. I'm also was going to mention all of the CTE classes and programming that we have. Um, I can't remember. I I I know the former superintendent was there and um a couple people that there's names are escaping me, but they presented at the MSBA um conference on their programming and they did have a lot of interest from other school districts just because it's been so incredibly successful here. And I think we got a lot of great people >> brainstorming and it leads into the partnerships with the businesses. um because every week we're sitting here, everybody in awe with their jaws dropping about how much uh donations we get from the local community. So, I just think that's a lot to be proud of right there. >> Great. Thank you, member Antonson. >> Last but not least, >> Mark Castle. I've been this is my first term, year and a half, same as Tessa. And um so the thing that I see the most is the offerings that we have for the students. um the in increased uh academic achievement that they have and especially the number that are on in the honors >> that what was it like $3 million or something of scholarships >> that this last group uh attained >> and that we offer the medical there's I'm in manufacturing. So, we have lots of manufacturing. There's a wide range of areas that the students can choose >> for career path or some people go job to job and do a whole bunch of different jobs throughout their life instead of a career. But they're all there for them so that they can dive into them and have a have a good make make up their mind even if it's not before they graduate. They have a lot to choose from and a lot of things that that they can go for >> in in the district. >> Great. So, and not only that, but also besides the business community, the uh the veteran the the people in the military right now that recruit the students. Uh my son happened to be one of those that was recruited and he's doing very well in the National Guard and and those things. So all of the paths, not not just the academics is the most important thing, but all of the paths that the students have um for for when they are an independent person when they leave this district. >> They're prepared for whatever the next phase is. Thank you, Member Castle. I appreciate it. It's always fun to start with those things that you're proud of. Sometimes you surprise yourself. Sometimes it's like, "Oh, yeah. I agree." And sometimes it's good to be first um and then the rest have time to think about it and sometimes it's hard to be last in the discussion because all the good ideas have been shared. But you have an abundance of wonderful things that are happening and so you can pat yourselves on the back and actually you're going to see that theme in your board self-evaluation as well. A lot of things that you can be proud of. So I'm not surprised with with your comments and actually I'm just in awe with a few things here too. the $3 million in scholarship coming from New Alm and um we don't have quite we're not quite there yet but that's really something to be proud of. So thank you. >> So with as we transition um with the board self- evaluation I really would like this to be formal but informal. So if you have a question feel free to ask away. If um we pass some topic and then you want to go back to it I am just fine with that. My time is your time. And so I want to make sure that you feel like your questions have been answered. I want you to feel like you've had discussion that will be helpful for the entire group throughout this. I have made notes on my copy of your um board self-evaluation. So if you don't comment on some things, I might bring it up and just ask some probing questions for you. But I just want that to be kind of the stage, kind of the framework for us. Also, I always like to start with some I call them community agreements for our discussion. Um, so while you're in a formal setting, we can still be kind of informal with this. So, the first one, the competence is in the group. You're going to get out of it what you put into it. And if you choose not to share, then you know, I feel bad about that, but I will respect that as well. So, competence is um within the group. Trust your fellow board members that there'll be open and honest communication and discussion. Listen for understanding. And when I was on the school board, I had a very seasoned board member who um always said, and we've all heard this before, there's a reason why, you know, we have two eyes, two ears, and only one mouth. So listen for understanding. And there were some times when he kind of had to remind us of that as well. And I I think about that every time I meet with a board and I think about that every time I'm working with teams whether it's you know my professional with MSBA or personal life as well. Also respect um all the different learning styles and personalities and that can be interesting and challenging. Uh when I was on the board, seven member board, we had seven individual folks who brought values to the table and had ideas about things. And while sometimes that can be a struggle and can be challenging, that can be the best thing that ever happened because your community is as diverse as you are sitting around this table. And that was the same thing for us in New as well. So being able to share those ideas um respect those personalities um and those learning styles I think is just important and um just part of the process and it's really what you would expect from your staff and from your students as well. It's one of those very foundational things that you share with them. remember that as a board you set the tone for this district. And I always had to think back to that too and and remind myself because sometimes, you know, we'd have some conversations that would be a little I called them bumpy or sometimes they got a little prickly and then you'd have to remember that you are being looked up to by your school community. And so setting that tone in how you interact and how you make decisions and how you ask questions I think is really important. And we all know that what happens at the board level starts trickling and it can trickle in a good way and it can trickle in a not so good way. And I al also think um for me an analogy is you know when you're operating things are going to operate well with the staff and with the students and if it isn't that becomes kind of the coffee room talk you know and then the the kids pick it up and it starts being the conversation at home. So I always like to remind boards of that and we always reminded ourselves of that too when I was on the board that you know we may think differently we might have different opinions at the end of the day we come together we make a decision and and then we move forward with it and we want to just set the tone that we would expect out of staff students in our school community um focus on achieving results as a team and that's one of the things that's kind of challenging it was for me too because I came with my my own ideas and I'm like, I kind of like things to go this way and maybe, you know, a couple of my um other fellow board members were thinking along the same lines. Um but focus on achieving the results and coming together as a team. And then the last community agreement is remember to thank yourself for your commitment. Um, chair uh, Rebeline was commenting like, you know, sometimes do you have a life outside of board work and sometimes I wondered that too. You have been given a real privilege to serve the the families within this school district. Um, they look up to you. Don't take it lightly. And also just know that you are appreciated. Sometimes it might not feel that way when you're leaving a meeting at midnight or something like that. I'm not sure. um or you know you're trying to figure out how you get the work life and board balance but um pat yourselves on the back for a job well done for being willing to take the responsibility and then looking at your superintendent. I always say the same thing to superintendence too. I mean this is your job obviously but at the same time thank you for what you do. It's um probably I'm going to guess something that you kind of live and breathe and you wake up thinking about. you probably go to sleep thinking about and everything in between. So, as a team, just thank you to you for your for your service and I know that you are appreciated. So, those are the community agreements and then I have a a few resources that I would like to share with you um for those that are um watching the meetings and in the room too. The first one is the stages of board development. And at MSBA, we talk about this for those of you that um take phase one, and some of you have taken it more recently than others, but we talk about the stages of board development there. We also talk about it in our phase three, which is the high performing board. And um just I'm going to use a few resources to kind of set the stage that will roll us into your board self-evaluation. >> Okay. Just a quick note. Um I did or we did have these all of these documents posted online with our agenda. So anybody who's following at home, okay, these documents are available to you. >> Perfect. So they've got that as well. That's wonderful. So as you um look at the board uh the stages of board development um we're going to start with forming forming, storming, norming, performing, and then deforming. And sometimes this is a copyrighted uh resource. Um, I also refer to deforming as transforming perhaps. Um, sometimes deforming sounds a little bit negative, but that's how I look at it. Uh forming. Forming is something that you've had a chance to do in the last year or so because this board welcomed some new board members. Those of you that are in your first term and just within the last month, not even two months, you welcomed to your board superintendent team a new superintendent as well. So, this is kind of an exciting time because you're finding your way again in forming this new team. um you've got elections coming up. We don't know the outcome of the elections and so there's a chance that you could be forming a new team again. We don't know. And so this will fit very nicely for you at that point in time as well. But it's really that time when you are just getting to know one another. Sometimes it's uh a challenge because if you were like me, I came with some preconceived ideas of what board work was. I just thought we showed up and talked and made decisions. I mean, I I was really at the simple level. I didn't realize that we were all going to have to speak with one voice. I didn't realize that we were going to make our decisions based on policies. It was kind of an eyeopener. So, sometimes in that forming stage, you feel a little bit of the tug-of-war. I think that's pretty normal. It's kind of finding your way. You might be filled with a lot of anxiety. And for those um team members who have been around for a while, there might be the anxiety of oh my gosh, you know, I've never worked with Gail before. This Gail um I've never worked with Gail before and so I don't know what it's going to be like interacting with her or if it, you know, whoever it might be. So that's really the forming. It's that orientation time. Storming is when it it gets a little bumpy, I like to say, where you know, again, you you might feel uncomfortable as a team. you're sorting out. Um, you maybe learn that I like a lot of information and I like to ask a lot of questions, but I'm not a threat to anybody. I just like to know and ask questions. Whereas, I had fellow board members that are like, "Oh my gosh, I wish she wouldn't ask so many questions." So, it's it's kind of that time of storming where you you're finding your way. Um, norming is where things start to kind of settle in and you actually find yourself moving into from me to we as a team. You're really starting to feel that that we're coming together and we're making decisions. Um, we've tackled some big things, we've tackled some little things and everything in between. Performing is obviously where you want to be. It's when the wheels are just really clicking, things are moving very, very well. and it's like in a relationship where you kind of know what the other person's probably going to say or ask. So, it gets to be kind of fun. There's one caveat to that or one thing um maybe just a a thought to keep in mind is when you're performing sometimes the board seems as if it's moving too fast, not to you but to the rest of your school community and you could possibly start looking like a rubber stamp. So, in those instances, if you feel that, that would be a time where your chair would want to maybe be very intentional about saying um with a decision where it maybe wasn't a lot of discussion, but uh a big decision and go around and make sure that everyone know has a chance to speak one more time or to explain that this is something that the board has been reviewing and researching and discuss discussing for the last three months or six months. And now we're here this evening to make a vote. Take a vote. And then the um reforming uh transforming uh deforming that's something that you've also had an opportunity to do in the last few years where you've said goodbye to folks who have been here for a number of years. And for some it's it can be a real sad time. Um you want to obviously you want to celebrate the farewell and the goodbye and um thank them. And it can also be kind of a sad time too because you really when you're a team, you're a team. And when team members switch over and change, that can be a real struggle sometimes. So I wanted to use that just to have you um think about that framework and as you think about yourselves, where do you see yourself right now? Any thoughts on that? If you had to pick a spot question. So >> not all boards can get to the performing >> correct part. Correct. >> So we could be still in the storming. by who we are. >> Um where there's not a lot of trust and >> uh there's a lot of surprises which I hate. >> Um and um so it's hard to be a really functioning board when you don't have trust and you can't trust >> what's going to happen >> and have surprises. Those are things that I really hate. Okay. >> So >> So the storming part that can some boards can just stay in that phase. They're never going to get around the corner. >> Yeah. But yeah, so I just wonder is and is that kind of a >> I mean I guess every board's different, but um is there usually a time frame kind of in most boards or >> I that you've worked with or I mean just curious how that works. >> It it it depends. It truly does because every board makeup is so different. Sometimes it depends upon the topic that's being discussed. Sometimes there are things that just float right on through and then other times there's certain things where there's differing opinions. So, thank you for that perspective. Yes, >> that was actually what what I was going to get to is that as we worked through this list >> and I reflect back especially in the last two years >> um I see this board pivoting >> between these five >> quite often different topics we slide into that performing. And then we have, you know, a board member leave and now we're in a deforming position where we're trying to figure out how we're going to move into forming >> and then uh we decide to exit that process and now we're back into the forming process. But uh >> some topics go really smooth and we fall into that performing and >> I don't know that um I would say performing is necessarily it looks like a rubber stamp but it's efficient. You know what you're going to do. You're following a plan. Mhm. >> Um there doesn't need to be unanimous consent at the table. You can have some discussion, but you you're making decisions and you're moving forward. >> And uh I feel like storming is when you're not moving forward, when you're indecisive, you're not getting typical business done and and there's >> conflicts at the table that >> that result in not a yes vote, not a no vote, but a failed passage because it falls 33. and and we've seen a lot of that and that's uh one of the reasons I've been so passionate about we need to get a seventh member and >> uh the voters will give us that in January but until then >> I think we got to find ways to be much more productive >> uh with our time so this is a a timely discussion >> absolutely and you're absolutely right I think a lot of boards do move between the stages and some boards move through them more often than others. So it it again it's an it depends type of response. Other perspectives from anyone else >> thoughts? >> Well, I I'd like to add that, you know, I think the forming part >> happened early on and I know um like the member chair and I would go for coffee, >> you know, I found out what kind of pie he likes my husband. Yep. >> So I enjoy that the one onone when I'd ask people for coffee. Mhm. >> Um or breakfast or whatever. >> Um you know, member Castle and I had a connection with our elementary schools where our kids went, but I think our board needed more of that and I wasn't sure how to get it or what else I could do and then it kind of went into the storming and >> um you know, needing to go back to that was maybe something that I could have worked at. >> Okay, good perspective. Thank you. Anybody else want to comment? You look like you wanted to say something. >> I would say I mean we have >> four fairly new members. It was five fairly new members really until >> member Hagglin resigned his seat with two fairly seasoned members of a board and >> having >> been on a board with other seasoned members. So, you know, when I I think it's hard when you have your formed group, >> you know, >> um then some of your friends leave and they're not in there anymore and new people come on and >> have differing opinions and ideas. Um that that is like the penultimate uh scenario we want to purport to the community and our schools that everybody belongs and I think uh we could do a better job of that up here. >> Okay. And as you were speaking, it reminded me of with school starting with um classes aren't always the same no matter what grade level you're in. And you start out, you're sort of like that, you know, a new class almost where you're just kind of working your way through. And >> sometimes you make connections with some and not with others. And and and at the same time, you're modeling also for your school community. So finding ways to to make those connections, I think, is is good and important. Thank you for that. >> Anybody else want to weigh in? Do you have any >> um Yeah, there's uh with newer members, there's probably going to be in any situation. There's going to be some new different thoughts than may have been prevailing >> prior to that point. >> Yep. But um and I'm sure that as people go like when I was campaigning and asking the folks about what their concerns are and everything, these are those are things that I would primarily consider, especially if it was coming from a students and what they're looking for. And um we it seems that all of the coursework we seem to be performing on >> because I don't think anyone in this group >> um is negative on any of the offerings that have come up >> during this during my time and I'm sure from previous times because we've we've kept things that a lot of boards disposed of >> accidentally or >> I think it was a mistake to do that and and the board that was here at the time didn't. Mhm. >> So there's and those are things that as a new member um I very much appreciate that >> those you know they stuck to their guns and >> kept things and you know even though we took a hit >> um in the financial area with it >> um there's we've been able to bounce back from that um and hopefully with the additional housing coming in and stuff, we can actually start increasing the enrollment. >> But um with what we offer, I think that that can happen even without new folks here just uh bring them back from they're going to other places and stuff. >> Okay. So, but um it's I think it's good um member Tyson mentioned about, you know, getting together, you know, not necessarily one-on-one, but seems like for the most part, you know, just >> two people and talking about, you know, their ideas and stuff. That's that's a really good idea. Mhm. >> Um I suppose there's going to be a concern of okay, does that make a serial board meeting and all these kind of things, but >> um because that's something that I don't think a lot of people consider when they're considering running for >> um any position in government, but that is something that is going to >> to be the case that you that you have to do. So, it's uh it's quite a learning experience. I've had experience in other business. The school's a little bit different, but um you still have what you do. >> Mhm. >> How do you track that? That's going well. >> Mhm. >> And everything behind the scenes that most people in a a lot of people in a company just don't see >> all the pieces, >> right? But I've I've been in positions in companies where I've seen almost every piece. Um, so it it's I think it's good for people to bounce ideas off each other and especially their experience and what's worked and what hasn't. >> Um, >> and maybe things that maybe they didn't work before, maybe could work them now. um as we talk the seasoned members and the green members. >> The newer Yes. >> to uh >> to you know brainstorm some of the things that you know we can do. >> Great. Thank you. >> So Gail >> Yes. I just wanted to clarify one thing that member Castle did talk about getting together and I guess my intent was kind of to get to know someone as a friend, you know, and get to know what they're all about and a little bit more about their families. >> Um, >> so that's that's where I was going about, you know, not sitting down and talking so much about what was at the board table, but getting to know the other person. And one thing I forgot to mention in the forming stage that didn't feel particularly good to me was that, >> you know, >> I I didn't get a chance to be an officer. They took all the officer positions and it kind of felt like I was my experience was discounted. >> My knowledge um you know and then I was sitting on the end. So those things in the forming stage um didn't feel very good >> and I didn't know how to express that >> or who could do anything about it. So it just kind of simmerred there. >> Um and so that was one other thing I wanted to add. >> Okay. >> It's actually a really good point, Member Tyson. I had a very similar experience after I was first elected as well. And I do agree with uh Member Tyson's comments about going out and meeting with individuals. I've I've made it a practice to do it every December. >> And to member Tyson's point, it's probably something that I should invite members to do more frequently. I think uh um when uh member Anderson and member Castle were first elected, uh member Hagglund and myself took it upon ourselves to be kind of their mentor when they got started on the board and to help them along. And >> um to avoid a serial meeting or avoid a >> a violation of open meeting law, >> uh Member Hegeland worked with member Castle and I worked one-on-one with member Tyson and I've really gotten to know her extremely well. Antonson >> or Antonson, sorry. An Hansen, Antinson. And I' I've gotten to know her really well over the last gosh only year and a half here. But uh >> to member Tyson's point, had taken a more active approach with some of the other board members, I think that would have helped uh the collaboration at the table quite a bit. >> So I think that's an excellent idea and it's probably something we should write down and come back to later. >> Very good. I'm I'm gonna Would you like to say add anything? I think we've heard from the other >> um >> you don't have to. I just didn't want you to. Yeah. >> Um no, I'm um I'm just going to be completely honest. Um I'm I'm um just struggling a little bit with the timing of this and I think I think this is really great. But um in the past, especially uh since our meeting in early December that went until 2:00 in the morning, there's been a a a really big lack of trust. There's been really hurtful things that have been said, >> um hurtful things that have been done. Never, you know, no >> um apologies. and we don't have to revisit all that. But I'm just struggling a little bit with all of a sudden kind of, you know, humba and and and you know, let's really >> work together. You know, there's a lot of stuff behind the scenes >> that has happened that I think probably a lot of people aren't aware of. And >> um I'm open to this and I'm listening. Mhm. >> Um I you know I'm just to be you know just wanting to be completely honest. This topic is a little bit of a struggle >> for me because I I >> I would like to think that it's genuine. I would hope that it is genuine. I just >> to me actions speak louder than words. So um I'd like to see some action >> um to follow up on this and and hopefully that you know that may be coming but um it remains to be seen. So thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that. And and maybe this is that new beginning. You're going to welcome another new board member to fill your your seventh position and maybe a takeaway from this evening because that's one of the last things that we'll do is talk about are there things that you'd like to work on or try moving forward. And that might be one of those things that you think about being a little bit more intentional. The I just wanted to comment again on the um one-on-one interactions when those happen and it's more talking about our kids. I mean, it'd be no different than if your daughters are playing hockey like mine did and so you're sitting next to a fellow board member and you know, you just you're talking about that. I mean, when it moves to a point where you're thinking about, well, how do you think we should vote or what do you who's you know, that kind of discussion is not appropriate obviously, but that getting to know each other and maybe being intentional, especially when folks are new on the board as well. Um, the comment about being an officer and I I hear what you're what you're saying. Um there's another thought to that too. Sometimes there's more um I don't want to say power, but there's more opportunity when you're not chairing the meeting or take, you know, clerk or whatever. Sometimes you're able to say things and kind of use some of that wisdom in different ways. So just food for thought on that as well. So I I think unless there's other comments, I think we'll maybe move on from those stages right now. And I think that the takeaway of this is to recognize that there are different stages. You might be moving very quickly through some depending upon the topic and other times maybe things will move a little bit more slowly and just acknowledging that that's part of what's happening. The next uh document that I'd like to take a look at is the board governance model and it is up on the screen for everyone to see as well. And this you get to see of course at phase one. I as a new board member did not know there was such a thing as a board governance model. So that was part of my learning curve and maybe it was for those of you that are are new as well. And I won't spend as much time on this other than just that quick review is um to say that the board's work is at the top half of the circle starting at the 12:00 um top of the circle under the word establish. Your key responsibility is to set the expectations and parameters. Have a strategic plan that's up to date. And then based on your strategic plan, you'll be adopting policies that tie to the strategic plan, a budget that relates to the decisions of your strategic plan and contracts. Basically, the contracts are going to be with staff and with services. So that's your key role. And then um moving to the bottom part of the circle, that is Superintendent Jacobson's responsibility. So once you've got those expectations and parameters, you're turning it over to your superintendent who then is going to be responsible for the leadership and the supervision. And he will, I'm sure, be sharing a lot of different things, providing you with updates. There's always that give and take. That's what the dotted line is, the friendly fence, because it's an indicator that you're not working in silos. It's not board here and superintendent here. And you truly are a team. team. And you'll probably hear me say that um while we're here this evening. Board, superintendent, team. You as a board cannot function unless you have a superintendent. And the superintendent cannot function unless there's a board to help give that direction. And then uh just moving back to the board's responsibility, the uh area that says evaluate. So as board members, and I think you're fully aware of this is you have one person that you hire and evaluate and that's your superintendent. And then uh you delegate that responsibility to your superintendent for all other staff in your system um in your school system. And it's not probably not going to be the superintendent who does all those evaluations because um your school district is too large. But I'm sure there is a plan in place where that work is delegated to principles and other administrators. The big piece is in the center student achievement or student success. That's what you're all about. And as board members, it's always good to remind ourselves of that as well. That's something that sometimes at our board table, we would lose sight of and um another um mentor who had a seasoned board member, you know, very quiet um didn't say a lot, but sometimes, you know, when we were really challenged with a decision, you know, we kind of look over, his name is Jean. Um, we look over at Jean and he'd just say, "Well, we got to remember what's best for the kids is how he would put it." And I just I always hear that too. What's best for the kids? And that's what I hope rings true for you, too. And actually, based on your self-evaluation results, I'm really feeling like that is the case with this group. Any comments or questions about the board governance model? Comments? Then, um, there's another document. I don't know that we have that to project. It's the uh strategic government uh governance framework um goal alignment and really and I know as board members I think you've got it in front of you. And so really that is just sharing the importance of having a strategic plan that's up to date. Once you've got that strategic plan in place, the goals for the strategic plan then will become the board's goals, the superintendent goals, the staff goals, and the student goals. And I really think that's how you've been operating over the past years. And again, at the very top in the green box, student achievement or student success is what it's all about. So that's really your aim on that. Any comments or questions? Okay. Then as we um start transitioning to talk a little bit more closely here to the board self-evaluation, I'm um want to talk a little bit about the standards for board leadership. And this is something that you see at phase one and phase three for sure. I think we've included it in our phase 4 as well. And with the standards, there are five of them on the front page. Uh standard one is conduct and ethics. And conduct and ethics is how you as a board superintendent team interact with one another, make decisions together, communicate with one another, respect one another, and move forward in governing based off of your strategic plan. So, it's really about you and your interactions. Standard two is vision. Um, vision is just as it says and it's really what you have in your strategic plan. And as a matter of fact, you'll see in just a little bit that that's really your strongest area. It was a few years ago when the board took the board self-evaluation and it continues to be here as well. And so again, it's having that vision for student success and meeting the needs of all students, giving them a sense of belonging. On the second page there, um, standard three is structure. Structure is organizational and physical. Organizational structure are the staff that you have and you have a lot of them, but it takes a lot of people to educate all the students that you have. So the organizational structure and then the physical structure is just as it sounds. It's your building and grounds and um with that um making sure that those learning essentials, those resources sources, those services are in place for your students. Accountability, accountability for monitoring all the conditions within your school. That accountability is the fourth standard. And um tied into that is the student achievement data which should really be your primary focus and then just that accountability for having the right people in the right positions as well. Standard five is advocacy and communication and that's how you tell your story and um the challenge that you have sometimes for telling your story because all of us learn differently. I mean at one point in time we all read the newspaper and we listen to the radio and we watch TV and that's not the world today and we still have some people who do that but there's a lot of other factors and a lot of other ways that we communicate. So that's what uh advocacy and communication is. And then tied into that is how you as board members respond to requests and um that you might receive from stakeholders within your school district and how you communicate the things that you're working on and celebrating the successes. Each of those standards has benchmarks um A through E, A through D, A through F, A through E, A through H. And the reason I mention that is because the benchmarks were the questions on the board self- evaluation. So I want you to see how this all flows together. And um as a matter of fact, our staff are just going through a process of revising some of the statements on the board self-evaluation. So it's been fun. and it's kind of been swimming in my head a lot lately. Um, it's not going to be real different, but it it's a little bit of a an improvement. And then as we start to take a look at your board self-evaluation, I just want to remind you that there is no grading in this. So sometimes board members are apprehensive when they hear we're going to take an evaluation or do an assessment because it's like, uh, I don't want to be graded on this. So there's no grading, there's no pass or fail, and there was no right or wrong answer. So as you had a chance to respond, it was really your perception of this team based on that particular benchmark. And you'll see varying responses, which I think is pretty similar to most of the schools that I work with as well. This is longitudinal. So every year that you take it, you'll see the uh results from the previous year. So, you've got your 2021 results and now your 2026 results. And um this is I think more about congratulating yourselves for the things that are going well and celebrating those. And you have a lot of things in here that are going well. So, we'll talk about those. We won't have to talk about them as much. And then there's always opportunities for change or improvement. And those are some of the things that you know we'll we'll be visiting about. So with that, I'm going to have you take a look at the fourth page in the first four pages are not numbered, but the fourth page in is your overview report, the aggregate data. And so what you see here is each of the standards listed down the left hand side with a little descriptor of each. At the top you've got the options for how you responded to each benchmark. Always, most of the time, some of the time, never, or don't know. And then the horizontal bar graph is a a summary of your responses. These are listed in percentages because there are varying numbers of benchmarks. Um remember I said the A through E, A through D. And so in order to give you an apples to apples picture, we uh calculate this in percentages. When we move into the other questions, you'll get to see the number of responses for each. And so you can see where this board landed on your responses. What I found interesting is that your highest area both in 21 and um this time is really vision. Um actually for you number one was structure this year and number two is vision your highest responses and I think that speaks very well. You want all of them to be high but I think having that vision and having the structure in place is is very very important. Uh, one of the the takeaways of this is, you know, certainly you're looking for responses that are always or most of the time. And what I might say is always, the next board member might say, "Oh, no, that's a that's a some of the time." Um, but you really want to be moving to the most of the time or the always. And that's part of what this discussion is all about. where there's some of the time. We'll have some discussion about how you might move the dial on that and move that to an always or most of the time where it's never. Those can be kind of interesting. Never might mean that you truly never do it or talk about it or or have discussions. It could be that if you know for our our um newer board members, you might not have been on the board long enough to see that activity or that discussion actually happen. and within the next year you'll see it and a year from now if you took this you'd be responding very differently. And then the don't nos are um not surprising either. Sometimes you just don't know and and not to point fingers at new board members but sometimes it is more new board members that are just not sure because you again haven't you've got that learning curve ahead of you. So, we'll kind of talk about those and we'll talk a little bit more, I think, about the nevers and the don't knows. Um, for superintendents, a lot of times, and I I'm guessing your superintendent might be in similar in this, they will be taking notes of the nevers and don't know because those might be opportunities to inform down the road, might be good topics for a study session, being more intentional to describe or explain something, background information as you get to those particular items. So, so if you're taking notes, I won't be surprised on that. Um, okay. Thoughts, comments about what you see on this overview report? Anyone? >> I'm I'm surprised at how similar it is when you when you start to kind of aggregate the aggregates >> that uh really not a whole lot has changed since 2021 and 2026. And like you said, our highest being vision and and structure, it it makes sense if you do look at uh the 2021 >> um there was a little bit less disparity, but I think that >> I'd have to go back and look at that board dynamic specifically member Tyson or member Corker might know, but I think that board had been together >> more. >> So there there there was certainly a little bit more group think in that in that environment. They were on the same page. there wasn't >> a lot of discussion about uh >> specific implementation >> um guidelines. They they all kind of thought on that same level. Um, so I think the the breakdown makes sense >> being that uh the six of us tend to approach things from a different angle. >> And I I think that's going to be good because it's going to give us uh things to discuss and really work through where um I I didn't I wasn't here in 2021 to watch this part play through, >> but uh I I can't imagine the discussion was too in-depth it. So um and member Corkran and in Tissson you can remind us too. I believe that at that time the board had and the superintendent had been here for a while. You had I believe one new board member. I don't remember who it was she said over here. >> We had two >> two new board members. Okay. >> Um I think we had two. >> Okay. So >> Right. And so sometimes to to your point, I think when a a group has been together for a while, >> you're going to see that reflected. And I think that's maybe what's reflected unless you have might have been Luke. That's what I'm thinking. Luke was on that. >> What was Kate initiated? And then we had um 21. >> Oh, Alex. >> Alex Ket. >> Oh, Alex. Yep. >> Oh, Alex Kate. Okay. >> Yeah. This is It's interesting, Gail. especially the >> standard five >> seeing such a high number for never >> that uh yeah and accountability. Yeah, there's >> a lot more red than there was in the past. So >> definitely areas that have been a concern or >> or a problem. So >> um try to get those closer to at least yellow would be good. >> Yep. Absolutely. >> Yes. And I was noticing as member Corkran standard one Mhm. >> that has quite a broad spread compared to 2021. >> Um, conduct and ethics. >> Um, so it'd be nice to get that closer and move the dial. Other comments. Great. Well, that gives you that big picture overview. Um, one of the things that I have observed, and this is not researchbased. This is just Gail's observation of having done I bet you I've done hundreds of these now over the the past years. What I tend to see is that when responses of always and most of the time are in that 50% range, >> usually the boards are at a higher performing level. And so for this group, I mean, you're not that far off, maybe in a couple areas. Again, you've got new members with your team. Um, so we'll just see and and kind of look at each of the questions at this point, but something to work towards. >> Okay. I I was going to um Yeah, >> I was just going to say with these with the with the areas in red >> um I think there's probably likely different ideas within the board members up here as to what that means and you know obvious >> so I'm looking forward to her continuing here to see how we work through >> that. Y appreciate the comments. Okay, let's take a look then at the individual questions, individual statements, if you will. And as you take a look at page five, what you'll see on every page now moving forward, and I know you had a chance to take a look at this even before this evening, but you'll see the standard number and the name, standard one, conduct and ethics. You'll see the benchmark that the questions related to. So that'll give you a good clue of where things are at. And then you'll see the statements. And so for this uh particular benchmark, there were a couple um basing decisions on what's best for students and committing to a clear and shared purpose. Uh some of the upcoming pages, you'll see there were more benchmark more statements that tied to the benchmark. Uh really with these two statements, they tie to your strategic plan, the direction of your strategic plan. That's your, you know, what's best for students and that clear and shared purpose. So, I think one one thing I should probably add a little context here, at least to the way that I address these questions, is >> um >> I was probably in the blue or yellow on almost everything >> because I look at always as >> quite literally 100% of the time there is never an exception to that, right? >> And I look at never to be the exact same type of thing and it absolutely never happens. So if I reflect back on it and see that it happened once, >> I kind of fell into that some of the times. So I don't know how other board members felt when they approached this, but when I look at that, that very first question just stands out to me because >> um when I look at this, I feel like this could >> our 2026 result and our 2021 result could very well be the exact same >> just based on that interpretation of what always and never is. And I don't know how other board members felt about that, but uh that's what jumped out at me on question. It's qu labeled question three. >> I think I think that's a good point. Any any comments about that or any >> I could you clarify that again? I might not be >> Yeah. So if >> and I I could just barely hear you chair and having a little bit of reaching with you if you want to pull your mic. >> I'll pull the mic a little bit closer here because it's >> maybe you can. >> Yeah, she might be out of wire. >> Try. How about if I shift to the side there? You could get maybe a little bit more. >> I can easily do that. >> Thank you, Gail. >> Yeah. Um, no. So, remember Tyson, what I was saying is my interpretation of always >> is to be always is it happens without exception. >> Absolutely always. 100% of the time. >> So, like if I'm asked, are you on time for doctor appointments? I would say most of the time because there's that one time where I get caught up in weather. I can't say always. I can say most of the time. >> And the same for never. My interpretation of never is it absolutely never happens. It hasn't occurred once >> ever. >> That's that's how I just uh define never in my mind. And don't know is obvious. Sometimes you're just you're ignorant or you haven't come across that >> experience or that process. But in my case, when I went through this, I know I fell into most of the time and some of the time. >> Okay. >> Um, for the vast majority of these questions, and I kind of base that on a has it happened more than 50% of the time or less than 50% of the time. So, I I just wanted to get out my interpretation got >> of the the five categories >> just because I think it will help us dig into it and evaluate it and see. Uh especially when I when I look at question three here, it just jumps out on me as that >> we may have very well said the same thing that we said in 2021. >> If there was a different interpretation of always and never and that's why I throw it out on the table. >> So what you're saying is that that's your interpretation of every question or just of this one? >> No, that was how I approached this entire thing. And okay, um >> I just I I noticed that it was it seemed like the perfect time to disclose how my thought process worked when I addressed these questions >> in case other board members felt differently when they addressed the questions. >> Okay. >> Um I'm not going to compel anybody to >> to disclose what they were thinking of course, but uh I wanted to share that with the rest of the board, at least what my thought process was. >> Thank you for that. >> And you're not the first I'm sorry. Did you >> go ahead? So I was just clarifying you don't mean that for just this question bases a decision on what's best for student but for the whole >> for for the for the entire thing. Yeah. If if I was going to say always it means it's happened every single time >> on every question. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. I I appreciate that you brought that up because you're not the first person that has mentioned that as we've had these discussions and especially the um always is one that people are like it's got to be always or I'm not going to go with that as an answer. >> Okay. So, okay. >> Yeah. But it's hard for that first question because that is our role as a school board. It absolutely is >> to say that oh sometimes we >> we are doing what's best for students not always should be always >> I mean in the reality of a high functioning board that is doing >> our jobs >> right so that's that's >> but you know I mean most of the time and some of the time it's really not a good indicator to me it's I mean it's not a positive indicator to me >> right it should be much better at always >> like it was 21. >> Mhm. >> You know, so >> interesting. Yeah. >> I don't want to steal Gail's thunder, but do we want to dig into that to to your point, Member? That that is certainly valid. >> To me that that is the way that we're functioning. >> None of us said always. >> No, none of us. And I and that is really disappointing. So there's we got to >> That's kind of why I wanted to clarify that because to me, >> um, question three, base its decisions on what is best for students. That's easy. That's our job. That's our role. It should be always >> should be always. Yeah. >> I I mean maybe not for every question, but I think with that one, it's very appropriate answer. Always, >> right? So, >> we have to find ways that that should be always. >> That's what we're working toward >> to be. Yes. To be committed to that >> that shared purpose. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Should we move on to the next set of questions? You okay with that? >> I I do notice that questions one and two are not present. >> Oh, thank you for that. Uh question one was in the survey was name of your school that you selected and um >> your code word was the code word which I didn't remember. >> What was the other? >> The code word >> or the code word your self identified. Yes. >> Selfidentif your secret password code. Yes. Exactly. >> Yeah. So, thank you for asking that question. Um, on the next page, >> there are four statements. Christian, >> I have a question. Yes. >> Um, I'm looking on the answers here and in 2021 it adds up to eight. So, I'm assuming >> the superintendent took it there or something. But then for us, >> it only adds up to six, right? So, did someone not take it or >> evidently somebody did not take it. Um, and you're correct. uh in 2021 seven member board plus the superintendent. So in this case right now you're a six member board and um superintendent had the opportunity to take it as well. So someone didn't take it for some reason. I know that there were a number of reminders that went out and then we just got to the point where I needed to pull the report for you and and that's not unusual either. minutes. >> So, we're we're we're taking time this evening >> talking about how we should come together and all these really great things and someone sitting here didn't take the time to fill out the survey. >> It's okay. >> Well, if it went to the superintendent as well, perhaps >> he didn't fill it out. >> No, he did. >> I did. >> He did. Oh, I I I thought maybe we were talking about the pre prior super. >> So, I'm just I mean, >> yeah, I think >> again sort of actions speak louder than words. you can't even take take the time to fill out a survey for whatever >> reason or you know got sent to your spam. I mean there were several reminders. We were talking about it. >> So I mean again I just that that's >> Yeah. >> So that's a good clarification. I wasn't even aware of that. I mean, I was aware that somebody was out and we had reminders at meetings, but here tonight when I received this, I was just assuming that >> our new superintendent hadn't >> gotten time or Okay. >> Yeah. >> And and again, it happens. People have busy lives. There's could be a lot of reasons and I usually try not to dwell on it. I mean, we've got the six responses and you're all here this evening for the discuss discussion. So, you're all hearing the comments and so far everybody's been willing to speak and add comments. Um, but yeah, and I usually just get to it. It it is what it is. We we do the reminders and >> just go on. I did um have our database person take a look to see if it was maybe stuck somewhere or not fully completed and that wasn't the case. But, okay. So, yeah, I would just I would let it go. >> And and to that point, I'd like to add because member Corkerin coordinated this. She did a lot of work behind the scenes here and talked to Gail a few times. >> I believe she did reach out to the full board a number of times >> and then all of us were very certain that we did take it. >> So it's very possible there was some sort of a technical glitch. I don't think anybody was >> it could have. Yeah. >> Complacent in not filling it out, not providing the data. >> Um >> I I don't think there was anything any ill intent by any board member here. >> No, at all. >> I I didn't pick up on that either. There are occasions where with some boards that I work with where someone has said I'm not doing it and they they don't and that's you know we just have to go with that and >> well it would be nice to know that ahead of time for me anyway >> because I wasn't aware of that >> that there's a whole board member's information that's not in here. Correct. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And for us, it's just looking at those responses that are there. And again, you're all here for the discussion and the takeaway. And I would just leave it at that. And yeah. So, yep. Okay. Um so with this set of questions talking about um being open to the public, the divergent perspectives and the decision-making process, this is one that is a little more colorful with the red um more than maybe some of the other questions that you'll see along the way. >> Mhm. uh the two that maybe stand out the most, but I'm going to let you comment as well. Seven and eight, carrying out an annual assessment, which I'm not surprised by the results because you may not have done that on a formal basis in the past. I'm not sure. And setting goals for improvement. And that's actually something we'll talk about. I'm taking some notes. And then at before we wrap up, you'll have a chance to share some ideas too of things that you'd like to work on. And so those can be things that you can bring back to the table at maybe a study session and have a conversation about what you'd like to work on. >> Questions, comments from >> questions seven and eight there. I'd like to kind of unpack >> what what MSBA's recommendations are and and >> get uh Superintendent Jacobson involved in that. >> As you can see from the the red is carried forward essentially here. Mhm. >> In my time on the board, >> this has never been done. It's not something that uh >> the previous board chairs did. >> Uh when I moved into the role of board chair, um I did not >> I I didn't implement anything along those lines either. I I didn't have a precedence to work off of, >> right? >> Um not that that's a >> an excuse for not doing it, >> but it did not hit my radar. Mhm. >> Um perhaps because it wasn't something that was a standard practice here in the community. >> Um I would love to understand more about it and maybe this can be the first step in implementing something along these lines. >> Absolutely. >> So the message from MSBA is that we would encourage you to do some type of an evaluation on an annual basis. You've got this tool that you could use as one option. Actually there's with this there are two options. you can take this and just receive the one-page overview report that you take a look at and that's something that we offer off offer to all of our um school districts at no charge. There's no facilitated discussion. Um you can do what you've done, take it, get the overview and the full report, have a facilitated discussion. Then um other schools will just be intentional once a year. A lot of times like with our board, we did it in the summer months because things were a little bit slower. I don't know if you can say that anymore nowadays, but uh um but being intentional about just talking how how are things going with the board? Are there things that we need to take a look at? Things we'd like to address. Um you could some boards will take a look at their board interactions at the end of a board meeting randomly where you know how did everybody feel about the board meeting this evening? or things that you know as us interacting those kinds of conversations. So I think the takeaway is doing something at least on an annual basis. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Right. Member C. >> Are you saying that after the board meeting is done or at the end? >> At the end of the board meeting. Yes. Thanks for clarifying that. Yeah. Before you adjourn. Yes. Absolutely. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Hopefully that was helpful for you. If there are no comments, other comments, we'll just move on to the next page, page seven. >> I have a question. >> Oh, go ahead. >> So, um, to to question number eight, set goals for its improvement. >> Yes. Are we are we getting to that discussion further on here in this packet or or >> um so yeah what I I'm gonna in kind of informally take some notes on things that I've heard you discuss and then before we wrap up I'll ask each of you if you could >> pick one thing that you'd like to address as a takeaway from this >> and then I'll pull those together in a summary for you. >> Thank you. And then you will be able to talk about those at maybe an upcoming if you have a study session maybe have a conversation there and maybe pick one or two things and your one thing might be to do an annual assessment >> right >> you know it's not go ahead >> I was just going to say it's not not that you would have 10 different things that you would work on you might decide to do that um my recommendation we pick one or two that you'd like to work on because you've already got a lot of stuff on your plate as it is >> so okay >> yeah I've heard other board, not at this table board members, but other board members, you know, MSBA conference or something and and they seem to some of them were >> because this kind of thing came up. Well, how often does your board do a workshop? I I don't I mean, I don't think we've done that. I mean, I've only been here for a year and a half, too. So, I'm not faulting anything. I'm just saying >> I I don't know. Do we do we do that? >> So, I'm glad we're doing this right now with you, and I look forward to talking number eight later. >> Okay. Yes. >> I think that most of our workshops have been on the moving pieces of the district, you know, with the redistricting and >> school changes and everything and um >> so um along with the comments that uh chair Rebeline mentioned about the always. Okay. So if you >> So if at every board meeting >> you set goals for improvement, >> that would be an always. >> Mhm. >> Yes. >> But if it hasn't come up in a board meeting ever, then that would be a never. Mhm. >> So that would, you know, and there's not before I put my hat in um for running for the position, >> I went through all the I read every policy >> and I didn't see anything in policy that said anything about that. Mhm. >> So perhaps these are some things that we might want to bring up in policy committee where we make it a policy that the board addresses these things. And I don't I don't believe that has to be an always, but it should be a frequent enough where it it at least goes into the blue. >> Yep. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Good point. And there's a couple things coming up where we can segue back to that, too. So, I'm glad you mentioned that. >> Okay, ready to move on to page seven? So with this one, I put a note with nine and 10 to really congratulate you on delegating authority to your superintendent, honoring the roles and responsibilities with statement 11, written protocols. Does this board have a board handbook? Have you created one over the years? >> You have. >> Okay. I think um admin assistant Joy prior to Becky started that. >> Okay. Uh couple years a actually it's probably been three years ago now. We created a template for a board handbook. >> So if you I don't know if any of you do you >> superintendent followed that and had that guide. >> Okay. >> I say I'm not aware of a board handbook myself. One thing that we did do over the last year and a half though >> is we completely revamped all of our board policies, >> okay, >> our previous board policies, some of them were dated >> 1990 or earlier. >> Um, we adopted the 200 series from MSBA almost fully. Um, there's some that uh >> Terry Marorrow and I might >> have a discussion on where I think they're kind of repetitive. So I would condense them into a single one and then I would um the proposed policies that I brought forward we would pull in >> practice or precedent. So I would say for the first time um at least in a long time we we readressed a lot of the written protocols >> for the board um I think we adopted them last May or June. >> Okay. Okay. So, we're probably in a pretty good position to build a handbook off of those policies now, especially since we meet that uh MSBA standard on uh written protocol. Now, >> you absolutely could do that. The board the template for the board handbook is on our website. So, you'll find it there. And the board handbook really is something that complements your code of ethics policy. And it's some of those, I call it the unwritten things that we've just always done it that way. We've just always set up committees this way and we always just have people sit in these spots at the board table or we've got a protocol or a practice for who on the board can speak with legal counsel or to represent the board on with media, comments to media. Um, how do you get an agenda on the board? uh or how do you get an a an item on the board agenda? Those kinds of things are those kind of unwritten rules that are usually there. So, if you want to take a look at that handbook, it's I I am very impressed with it. I'm very proud of it. It's something that we really needed for a long time and um it's not something that you're going to create overnight. It might be a process that you engage in. It can be used for orientating new board members, certainly new staff as well. And um the other thing that we usually recommend is that at your organizational meeting in January um besides the things that are required under statute, that's a good time also to take a look at your code of ethics policy and then also take a look at your handbook and make sure that there's agreement from all seven board members on both the the um code of ethics and also the handbook. And so given that and what member chair said um some of the policies that we redid in the 100s that turned over to the 200s >> around board governance and the role that we do >> um >> we weren't all in um agreement with those. So >> we'd have to look at that as well before we incorporate it into the handbook >> perhaps. And there's I mean that would be something that you'd want to have a discussion about I guess with the policies. So >> okay. >> Uh so being in manufacturing uh one of the things that's always brought up is that just cuz you've been doing it for ever >> the same way >> doesn't mean that it couldn't be improved which would come up in your improvement part. >> Although certain things it's like >> yes there's a standard and and you stick to the standard but you can maybe tweak it here and there. >> Absolutely. Okay, >> any other questions or comments about those statements? >> And if not, >> I have a question real quick. Maybe you know off the top of your head and if you don't, it's >> certainly not a big deal. Do you know how many pages long your the the template for this handbook is? >> It might be 20. Okay, that's my best guess. There's um a number of things and some of the um statutes are in there. You know, some of those things that you like to have just really >> at your fingertips as a board member. >> Well, yeah. And I only brought it up too because I have heard other again board members from the conferences talking about their board handbook like oh >> I think it would be really good to have I mean you know because when you're new there's a lot of things you don't realize like statutes that you need to understand or where do you you know >> if I haven't been doing this for a long time >> how do you find them what are the websites you need to become familiar with and >> you know in addition to the organization you just became a board member for, you know, like who are the all the directors? And um >> anyway, I just think it's probably a really good idea. >> Yep. >> And I think we already have one. Mine would be at home. So, if I find it, I'll bring it in for Becky. >> Okay. >> To look over and see if she can talk to Joy maybe and find out where that original one was or where it lives. >> Yeah. Um, but it is a great tool >> to have and districts that I know that have it have kind of tweaked it to be their own, make it their own. >> So, it is, you're right, it's very helpful. >> Member Corkin, you're nodding. Did Christensen, did you get one? >> Trying to remember. >> I don't believe I mean, I don't believe I did. I >> Okay. >> I'm not familiar with it. Um, and I'm looking online and it's 29 pages. the template is >> thanks be really and it should be part of the in when you first become a board member it should be part of the when you first come in and learn all the facets of being a board member it should be part of that really helpful >> so I'm sure I believe we had I remember it being small but >> it's been a long time >> so >> should be on the server somewhere or on a backup tape >> yeah we'll have to look for that >> we will certainly look >> be a good place to start We start with template and we >> we develop something. I 29 pages isn't that long. >> Very good. Moving on to page eight. We're still in conduct and ethics. Uh here talking about students can achieve at high level support continuous improvement. Policies have been mentioned a number of times and you're well aware that MSBA provides those model policies and our staff and in particular Dr. tomorrow is always monitoring those, making sure that they're up to date and you receive them as soon as the legislative session has adjourned and we have time to get those created. And then before you receive the model policies, they're also vetted by our legal council as well. So you can be sure that they're um based on this statement researchbased and then you get to adapt or adopt as is depending upon if it's um may or must. But I'd actually like to to comment on that because um I know my questioning I was on the lower half of this grading scale and MSBA has a wonderful resource of policies for us and actually one of >> my initial goals during my first term was to get through our entire policy stack and adopt the MSBA policy. Um that work got halted after the we we we prefaced it with a one. So, I call it the 1300 series, but it would be the MSBA 300. >> Um, because a lot of our policies are >> maintained internally, and that's not necessarily bad, >> but many of our policies don't follow even basic federal laws or basic uh >> um state statutes any longer because there's been gaps in that. And >> um correcting some of those things has been problematic just with public perception. Uh we found one last year that we were in violation of the Equal Access Act and going through and correcting that caused a rift in the community that they thought we were taking away student groups and all we were doing was putting them under the proper structure. >> And now we have more student groups today than we did >> prior to the development or the adoption of uh I think it's 510 and 801 or it's either 810 and 501. I I can't remember specifically, >> but uh that's something that I think is a major opportunity >> for this board is to be more responsive with legislative changes >> and unfortunately it's going to require a a massive uplift because everything between the uh four MSBA 400 900 series needs to be >> reviewed or >> rewritten >> to match the MSBA model if that's a model we're going to go forward with and that that was my recommendation >> when I first started that work a little over a year ago. >> Yes, excuse me. Um so a couple things to to Revaline's point. I mean I feel like we don't have to again um you know uh relitigate everything. But I think that's a bit of a revisionist uh history on that policy. uh perhaps towards the end maybe that was the reason or the reason that was found to make a lot of changes but it was not the reason when that started and also were you trying to say that policies that are >> illegal or what what were you saying were not found >> that don't align with align with federal statute yeah I've been >> so we have we have those >> I've been very vocal about that over the last year and a half. Yeah. >> So our our director of HR is not aware of those things or >> Yeah. I don't >> we've discussed them in this boardroom and we still haven't corrected them. >> Well, we have a policy committee, so we have a process. So, this is >> kind of going um outside that bounds because we have that process in place >> and I've been on policy committee many times. There's always that process of consistent review. So, >> Okay. >> Well, I just think that's a that's quite an accusation. I feel like that we have multiple policies that are Yeah, I don't think that's correct. >> You know, >> well, you should name the policies you're talking about, maybe. >> But anyway, >> discussed them all in this room. >> So, yeah, I think you answered my question, too. I wondered if you had a policy committee, and it sounds like you've got one. And then usually most schools will review try to review about one-third of their policies on an annual basis. I'm not sure if that's what I roughly. >> We actually define it. You know, when we did the 200 series policies, we put a requirement in there. I can't remember if it's every other year or every three years, >> but we did adopt that recommendation from MSBA last year. >> Okay. >> Prior to that, there was no official cadence. >> Um, so it just kind of fell on what what happened during the legislative session, >> what is statute required and where does kind of best effort fit there? There there had been some policies that hadn't been before the board since 1992 >> for a while. >> Yeah. >> Okay, sounds good. All right. Uh, also on this page question 14, the collaborating with colleagues across the region. One of the things that I always like to mention with this statement is that MSBA provides you with opportunities to do that through leadership conference. And I'm hoping that you've all attended leadership conference or will try to. It's um really the one of the best professional development opportunities ever when you think about all the speakers and the workshops and the exhibitors that are there. So leadership conference we have our phase um one through five that you have opportunities to interact with your colleagues. The um coffee and conversations I know some of you have been a part of that. I think those are pretty interesting first and third Tuesdays of the month. Um one's at 8:00, one's at noon. I know it's always sometimes hard for people to participate in those. What's fun about them is they are one hour and it starts off with bring up three topics and you might hear from northern Minnesota and southern Minnesota and then maybe somebody from the metro. Sometimes the questions are all the same and um it's just a way of helping each other in answering questions. We have our board chair chat which is on the second Wednesday of the month for board chairs and again board chairs kind of drop in drop out as they're available to participate and it's the same agenda too with you know what are some things that board chairs are addressing right now and and we do some problem solving with them and it's not necessarily we as MSBA we step in if there are some basic questions but usually it's that sharing from school to school we have our third Thursday webinars um many times times there's opportunities to share uh through that. Our negotiation seminar, our officers workshops, you get a lot of opportunities to share, find out what's happening. And then certainly our advocacy team, our government relations team with uh platform and action with the delegate assembly and then my most favorite is the Friday chats during the legislative session. The best 30 minutes of my week actually when you can just get that quick update on what's going on. And then we have a Friday chat plus on the first Friday where there is opportunity to interact and um with fellow board members. So we've embedded some of those things and then you likely have some things that you've created or have available too or if not that might be a a topic of discussion that you might want to consider at some point. Yeah. >> So I have a question. Yeah. So those are in emails that come out from NSBA. And I know Gail's really good at at being the district director to kind of keep us advised of what's going on with MSBA. >> But I guess the saddest part is when we broke away from NSBA >> and I believe that that was we had an amazing interaction with people from out of state and I think there it was just great collaboration and get to know the way people do things differently across different states. I really truly miss that. Okay, >> that was probably one of the best things that when I was a new board member to talk to people from other states >> and I know when we broke away and I know where is it caspa. Yeah, I have not gone to any of those and I don't really know the correlation between the two. I don't know, you know, if it's as good or not as big or whatever. But I think when that happened that was disappointing to me and I think that is where I probably felt like I didn't have that >> broader knowledge. Missed that. Yeah, >> because you you only get out what you get when you go. I mean, the MSBA annual >> Y, >> it's fabulous, but you only if you go to attend and you get you interact and you get a lot of information, but you have to be there and you have to be willing to >> to do those things. >> Absolutely. And have the time. Have the time. >> And have the time. >> That's one of the big >> big things. But Cosba does an excellent job. I think I've been to three of the national conferences and they have just a plethora of workshops, some fantastic speakers and a lot of chance to interact and yeah, I think the next one is in Dallas. >> It is it is it April? Is it usually April >> and um March I think March this year? >> I think it's in March. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Maybe like March 11th through the 13th off the top of my >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yes. So, uh, what are typically the timing during the day of when these Tuesdays and th these different events that you were talking about? >> So, with the coffee and conversations, um, the first Tuesday of the month, it's at 8:00 and the third Tuesday of the month, it's over the noon hour. Board chair Chad is the second Wednesday of the month, and that's over the noon hour. The third um, the third Thursday webinars are always at 1:00 pretty much. And and then the other workshops it just depends like uh the phase workshops are offered virtually and in person and uh usually those I think we do actually 6:00 to 9 and then there are some I think there's one coming up that is going to be like a noon to 4on to 3 something like that. So, >> they're always in um the director, Kirk Schneider, the executive director's update that we get >> and they kind of reformatted it so it's got just a bright color, blue and green, and his picture. And they've really worked at getting it more so you like know what you're going to read, right? It's not just another email to delete. >> Yeah. >> Focus to be participating in some of them. It's like it can be very problematic. Um >> it's a struggle. Mhm. >> Yeah. >> And my company has been >> I've I've worked more overtime this year than I probably have in the last >> 15 years. >> So, it it's it's been >> it's been tough as far as time wise. Mhm. >> Um to be, you know, I mean, it's you can get the emails and read what's happening, >> but you're not able to participate without >> uh switching things up or >> um and like my lunch hour is 11. >> So, um >> and they different businesses, you know, sometimes they're like get a little bit lax with it. you can just kind of all right well I'll do it as long as this is the same half hour whatever it is >> but um they my company has been okay here's here's your thing and you got to punch out and now with the >> whatever they did with the legislation and now they have to pay you to the minute or something you can't punch in there's all this hassle that they've had to deal with so they've tightened up and I'm sure most >> businesses have been doing those kind of things >> could be and and you I I appreciate what you're saying. That is one of the downsides because it's so hard to find a time. We did a few years ago try an evening session for the coffee and conversations and it just we just didn't draw people unfortunately and I understand that too. But anyway, but there's a few things. The third Thursday webinars are also posted on our website afterwards that doesn't get to the point here of being able to interact, but at least you can still get that information. So, and just to add, so are the legislative >> um chats. You can always go into the website and just click on them. And >> sometimes I'm listening to them at like 9:30 at night or in the morning when with my coffee, >> right? You don't get the participation. >> Well, that isn't a participation part. That's just them giving an update, but it really helps you know what's moving through the legislators and what's what bills are coming up. So, >> and there may be some of these questions that if you're not on a particular committee that is pointed or what I don't know what the correct term is >> that pertains to a question >> and okay well so if there were some questions that really have to do with the policy committee and I haven't been on the policy committee okay well I've never seen that >> and right >> so just because they may have said okay well can we improve this It may not have come to the board saying, "Well, we're in the policy committee. We're trying to improve on this >> then." Oh, okay. Well, then that would be a >> score one for that >> topic. Yeah, good point. Thank you for that. >> Okay. Should we move on to the next set of questions? >> Sure. >> Still conduct and ethics. And with this scoop, we're talking about the healthy relationships. And I think the only one that I made a note on was 17 with treating all individuals, board members, staff, students, community members with respect. And um everyone selected some of the time and I think probably this just goes back I'm not sure if board members want to comment on this. Maybe some of the conversation that's already happened here reflects that as well. Um, just thinking about what I said at the beginning too that you're really setting the tone and is that the tone that you want to set for your your school district and then um maybe talking at some point about how you change that tone and what that's going to take and maybe the new beginning is after the elections. I'm not sure. I mean, you can always start now because the elections aren't until November, but you know, having some preliminary discussions, some agreements on that, and then for sure be >> um moving to put those in place when you get your newly elected board members. >> With your open board position, is that um going to be filled immediately with the election? >> Yes. Yep. That that position, that's what I was thinking. That position is in the election. >> It won't be a January. >> Correct. Yeah. there will not be a January vacancy. >> Okay, perfect. >> Which I think will be very fortunate for everybody. >> But uh I I'd like to make a point on this uh on this question number 17 here. >> Um and I I know I'm going out on a limb here, but I think I can speak for all seven of us sitting at the table. I think this question would be always if it were if it read treat all individuals including staff, students and community members with respect. I feel like everybody at this table does that >> without exception. Um, every interaction we have with staff members is respectful and >> every interaction that we have, especially with our students, our community members. >> We I I think all of us at this table do an exceptional job of remaining respectful even when >> we're on opposite sides of the the issue. I I can think of a couple of community members specifically that their feedback is almost relentless abuse and I feel like we all handle that >> very well. Okay. >> I think where some of the contentions comes in is at the board table. Remember Christensen's already mentioned it >> and >> it goes both ways. Like if if you feel you or if you felt you've been wronged >> by me, I probably feel that I've been wronged by you. >> So there isn't a somebody's at fault >> for any of that. I I think it's a a two-way street >> and I don't I don't think it's unique to any member. >> Obviously, if we all said >> you're all on the same page. So and yeah, and I think the takeaway is you're going to want to have some kind of a discussion about that. where what the next steps are, how you address it. I think >> good and I appreciate your comment that you've added to and maybe the rest of the board members. Do you feel the same way that this is more board for focus than staff, students, and community? Is that >> I I don't >> Oh, okay. >> Completely. No. >> Okay. >> No. >> Okay. >> So, I think it goes along with what's worded in the Q17. um staff, students, community members. I mean, it's not just the board in my eyes. Okay. >> Okay. Should we move on to the next set of questions? Page 10, conduct and ethics, working as a team. With this one, let's see. The first one talks about the achieving mutual trust and commitment. uh working with the superintendent. Your second one, the professional development opportunities. There were some various responses here. I think one message that we have at MSBA is to not be afraid of investing in yourselves, in your own professional development as a board member. It's something that you expect of your staff. um you accept expect students to develop and so it really does set a precedence. I think the caveat is what um member Castle said before. It's finding that time sometimes to be able to get away and do it. It's not that folks don't always not want to do it, but finding that time but not being afraid of investing in yourselves with professional development. Other comments from the board about any of these statements, things that come to your mind? >> Well, I mean, I guess, sorry, I just started talking about >> um the holding study sessions, you know, idea here come is appeared again. So, that's not something I'm aware that we do or have done or but I find that concept very interesting. And then it's also saying use collaborative processes that result in well-informed problem solving and decision-m. Um yeah, I mean we if we could develop a collaborative process, >> you know, so that >> you know I don't know what that looks like, you know. Um. >> Mhm. >> I don't know that I've gotten many phone calls for coffee, >> you know. So, I'm not >> Can I expand upon that question? Um, because I actually have a question on number 20 for for Gail specifically. Um, as you may know, we have board meetings. we don't that some board uh have work sessions where they don't necessarily do business and they sit down and they just kind of discuss items. It's open and it's kind of free flowing. >> Um to my knowledge, we we've never had that >> as part of our operations here, but we certainly haven't while I've been on the board. >> Um so we've had to handle all business either in board meetings >> or working in small groups in the superintendent. And if I look back on like the elementary school reboundering issue that we worked on, that was a major effort. We had a lot of I had weekly check-ins with Dr. Massie at that point where we were we were getting down to looking at specific roads on the map and I was getting updates on how things were going and the various committees and stuff. And um I recognized I was more connected to that being the board chair, >> but uh all board members had the opportunity to have those conversations. Um, but when you get into, I'll call it the the lower impact decisions, you know, the things that you're talking about on a weekly basis or in in various meetings. >> There was um a time, it started about a year and a half ago where we had a number of individuals engaged very tightly and accusing certain board members of violating open meeting law. and any form of collaboration was looked at either as a serial meeting or a violation of open meeting law. We even had board members commenting on it in the boardroom >> saying, "Well, you we suspect you're violating open meeting law because >> so I feel like we've gotten a bit gunshy on collaboration outside of the boardroom >> because of those accusations. >> I have to stop because I can't quite follow all of that and hear all of it." So, >> so can you go back speaking louder? >> Sure. Um >> um a little bit. >> Well, my my question >> for you, Gail, is >> what did you say about open meeting law >> over the last year and a half especially? It's been difficult because there's been a lot of accusations of violations of open meeting law. >> From who? And >> there's been foyer requests on open meeting law. Um member Tyson, you mentioned it in board meetings that you suspect certain members are violating open meeting law. I've stopped that discussion. >> That's very different from collaborating and having coffee together. So I don't know. >> But that's my my question for Gail here is >> what do you recommend for boards, especially boards where there's tension on being able to collaborate correctly without having that >> perception in the community or even amongst the board >> that something nefarious is going on. >> You certainly need to the conversation has to be based on open meeting laws. So it's not that you can go into a private session. There is one option that you can use and it's an advisory opinion. We can uh talk about that a little bit more when it is the interaction with the board where you can do that in a closed session. No board business can be discussed. That would be an option for you and have a facilitated discussion. You could do it on your own. You could have MSBA staff person assist with that. there might be someone from the outside that you would choose to have help talk through that. So, that would be an option to consider if you're comfortable at the board table just speaking. I've uh you know, speaking your thoughts. Everybody seemed to be pretty candid tonight, so I don't think that's an issue. Um but I can also understand what you're saying when you're wanting to be um it's kind of like airing the dirty laundry maybe. I don't know. That's maybe not the best way of putting it. But the things that you're really struggling with, it can be hard. So, just having the candid conversations in the in a board setting. I've worked with several boards where, you know, they just sat down and started sharing the things that concerned them. Not a a pointing fingers, but like when you say this, this is how I feel or when this happens, this is, you know, those kinds of conversations. So, you really will need to sort through what will work best for you. And then if there's a way that MSBA can assist, we absolutely will help you with that. And if it's an outside group, um sometimes a more informal setting. Um do you do board retreats at all? >> We have. >> We have in the past. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Not with this board. >> Okay. And and some will do that. They have to be in district and it's just a more informal setting where you can um have a candid conversation. Sometimes it's doing some interactive things where facilitator will do uh you know like the strength finders or you know MyersBriggs or something like that. So you get get to learn a little bit more about one another. So those would be some other things that I would just toss out in response. Um and that would be something that you'd want to come to an agreement on what how you handle that. And I think we've talked about having a more informal second meeting of the month like this one. >> And then to member Antinson's, you know, collaborative processes are part of what I brought up tonight before the meeting is that, >> you know, I saw me chair at our opening and we talked in the hallway. Correct. >> So I had sent him an email. I didn't hear back. So then I took the time to talk to him in person there. And I think it's helpful to do that. But then backing it up, having a more collaborative process. This is what I'm thinking of putting on the agenda. >> What are you guys thinking would be good for that agenda? >> Um, what else you want to talk about? Just that's collaborating to me. >> So, >> yep. Absolutely. And I think these small discussions with Superintendent Jacobson's going to be important that maybe we mix them up who's with, you know, like two or three at a time with him kind of going over these items to kind of have more collaboration and discussion before before the board table >> because that's like I say, >> I don't like surprises and I don't like things coming at me when I don't know and I don't know how to react and it just makes me shut down and makes me angry. So, if we have those discussions and have that positive interactions, I think that is really going to help our board. I believe that's a way we're going to be able to collaborate better, but mix up the people that are in there. So, then we'll have more time in small groups together. >> I think that's going to be important for us. And I think for board members to share exactly what you have said just now, member Corkran, u no surprises and like >> you need some time to digest, think through those kinds of things. >> That may not be the case for the entire board, but when you know one or more people feel that way, then that's something I think setting agendas, the interactions, I think is important to address and be mindful of. >> Right. Right. >> Who's next? >> Oh, I I'll go ahead. >> Is your arm up too? Okay. I'm curious. I mean, member chair has, you know, put him in that position, >> appointed him there a couple or a year and a half ago. And >> I don't know when, if you think back to previous chairs before you, is that how it would go? Like, was the chair reaching out to the team the week before? >> Was that part of your experience from the previous chairs? that I before I was put in the chair, I served under two different chairs. >> Yeah. >> And I kind of changed my practice based on what they did. They they never reached out to me ever >> for anything. Um I would reach out to them and put requests and say I want certain I want to discuss certain items >> and they refused. Mhm. >> So, I've told everybody on the board that if they have items they want to talk about as long as >> there's there's support for more than one member and it seems like there's a common interest in discussing that. It's something that I would discuss with the superintendent to put on the proposal. >> I think this goes back to the the handbook idea. I think it'd be a really good idea to kind of structure that. >> Yep. Um, but yeah, to member Antinson's point, when I when I was first elected, it was like I I had the coffee with the incoming board chair. >> And it wasn't a constructive meeting. It was more of a threatening meeting. And I I didn't like that. And I've tried hard not to have that experience. And >> like I mentioned, every December I try to invite everybody together and say, "What are your goals for the year? >> Let's talk through this. let's understand and we can build the agenda off of that. >> And even in the the more contentious period here, I did that last December and I think I met with all board members except for one >> and I think that was beneficial. >> So that that's been the the practice that I've >> I've shared with board members >> to the meeting that the having coffee I think you and I met at village. I think it was great and >> very good. >> I've really enjoyed that. What I hear this group saying is maybe identifying some norms for how we communicate and how we interact and that maybe hasn't been established. At least that gives you a place to start from. >> I might be off base on that. Any question? >> No, I mean I think that's pretty much what >> what you >> I'm hearing too. I mean >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, if during a board meeting >> um there's the casual conversation or whatever, what does that look like as an agenda item? >> I I I think well for the rest you can maybe correct me. What I'm hearing is that you might not have the informal conversations at the board table. It might be the opportunities to interact with one another. Anybody else want to comment on that? >> I thought you were >> in one of the things you were saying. I thought it was like during a board meeting where you would have >> I think that related to the agenda maybe. Is that what you're referencing? >> Oh, the collaborating, right? So, if you're going to collaborate, >> raise your hand >> during a board meeting. >> Oh, that would probably be if you were going to set those norm, you may want to use the close session option. And you might want to do it in a board retreat. I mean, you Yeah. >> And then and if it's not during a board meeting, >> there has to be parameters to >> Yes. >> define >> what that means. >> What is board business? Yes. >> That we can't talk about >> and what is business that pertains to the board that isn't board business. which I think goes along with Chair Rebline's comment about >> uh some folks thinking that we have been not uh true with the >> decisions made outside of the board meeting. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think the collaboration away from the board table is more the getting to know you as a human being and similar interests. Those kinds of things I think is >> more what that's about. Just knowing what makes you tick. You know what one person needs a lot of information. no surprises and another one might say, "Nope, you know, I'm showing up at the board meeting and I'm going to respond based on I read here and yeah, so I think it's those kinds of things and really staying away from the board business and then I think there's the norms of how you're interacting and I think that's something that might be healthy for you to identify and there's a number of ways again that you could do that and how you would identify those. Each person could identify things that they think could be norms and then bring it to the group to have a discussion. Yeah, there's a a plethora of ways to get to that. >> Did you have something you want to I was just going to, you know, uh just say that >> uh again to just sort of be mindful of the time. We've been at it two hours. We're on question 21 and there's 71 questions. So I just that was sort of one point and then another point is I think >> if our purpose is to move forward and grow and come together. I think kind of these side >> I mean I brought up some things in the past but I said I'm not going to relitigate them and I feel like um you know there's some relitigating going on here without any back and forth discussion. So, if we're truly here to move forward and come off on a more positive note, I think uh that we need to um >> again, actions speak louder than words. So, let's keep moving forward positive. And >> obviously, this is very good discussion, but as I said, we have 50 more questions to go and we have an agenda also this evening after this. So, I I just wanted to make that point. >> Good point. And I do think that you're you're going to want to get to a point where you're going to have to let the past go. As hard as it is, that's hard for all of us. But I think you got to let it go and then you move forward and assume good intent, positive intent. And we won't take as long on the rest of the questions. The largest the largest area, no surprise, is probably the conduct and ethics with your group. And I think this is healthy for all of you. Food for thought. Uh, one other comment I I will make on um statement 21 is your process for orientating new board members, and you've talked about that a little bit this evening already. That's something that you would want to include in the handbook as well if you haven't already. So, okay. >> All right. You want to put conduct and ethics aside for the time being? I think you've had lots of good things that have been brought up and that's good. I mean, you don't always get these opportunities. So, um I've taken some notes and we'll talk about them before we wrap up. So, vision was your strongest area. Vision is your view of the future. What um the takeaways here? You're going to see as you look at these responses, I'm guessing you have to feel good about the responses on pages 11 and 12, 13 and 14. Are there any statements here that you would like to comment on or address? These are really all reflected in your strategic plan. What it told me is that you are still governing based off of your current strategic plan, which is a very healthy thing. Um that you've kept that in the forefront because that's really important. >> I guess I'd like to comment on on pages 12 and 13. >> Okay. >> Um especially when it comes to including stakeholders, communing, communicating rationale. Um when when I first started on the board, >> we only involved the community in half of our board meetings. They didn't come in the room. Like this being our midmon meeting, >> this meeting wouldn't have been available to the community. >> We changed that last January to keep community members, they are involved in every meeting. >> And we even found a way to include them in every single superintendent interview that we had. >> And we had people go back and watch them. Um, so I I see a disparity between 2026 and 2021 that doesn't make sense to me. In 2021, a lot of things were it was an open door, but it was done behind closed doors because if you didn't have the opportunity to be in the room, >> you weren't involved. >> And now, you know what? You're going off on tangents. >> But now we are. Ridiculous. Well, what what I'm trying to understand, memory, is >> what >> we had >> what is the what is the split in perception here? >> Well, 21 we had the hugest strategic plan group >> that I can bear. I mean, we had I don't know 40. I mean, it was huge, right? >> You had I think you had about 50 people on your huge outpouring of support and collaboration. So that's that doesn't surprise me at all. >> Now I mean and >> but we haven't made that decision yet on what we're doing to to build the new strategic plan. This was step one, >> but what did you remember? >> We may have 50 or 60 people involved again. >> Yeah, >> correct. And so yeah, this one is really and so the responses don't surprise me because a lot of you weren't here when this um last strategic plan was created and so there was a large stakeholder group. um the stakeholders that are a part of the process are advisory to the board always. It's not stakeholders coming in and saying this is how it will be. >> There doorbell. >> Okay. So yeah, just for clarification on that, that should be your takeaway on how you've involved stakeholders and that's something when you do your next strategic plan you want to talk about as well. And we have stakeholders on our committees, our policy, our finance, all of our committees. >> Hence my confusion. Member Tyson, we we involve a lot of people >> in every decision we make and we do it openly and transparently. So >> they just caught me as unusual. >> Well, why? Well, you're saying because why someone said never and don't know. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> That is surprising. >> Yeah. >> That that doesn't make any sense. Okay. They must not have understood the question as well maybe and didn't >> could be and perceived that well. >> Y absolutely and then this discussion might help folks think or see things in a different way as well. >> Yeah. >> Maybe maybe not. >> Okay. >> Okay. Any other questions, statements you'd like to talk about? uh there there might be some uh I guess perhaps misunderstanding about what monitoring might be. So when we get presentations from our the staff >> and we listen to that >> could be considered monitoring. >> Another person might not consider that. >> See it that same way. Mhm. Mhm. And and this question is really relating to whatever your goals are in your strategic plan. So it would be taking a look at your strategic plan and the monitoring that would happen there. Monitoring would probably be um initiated through the superintendent monitoring. Here's what we're observing. Here's some reports. Here's some feedback. However, that might happen. So, and I'm going to guess that's probably what you saw in the the past years. There's another one in here that talks about an annual review doing kind of a deeper dive with the strategic plan. And then you bring up a good point. You're getting a lot of other reports where it's feedback. It's for your consideration. It um I'm not sure how that is those reports are linked to items on the strategic plan, but that might be something if it's not happening. Is is that are the agendas aligned to the with the strategic plan? >> They are. And we have done annual reports on the strategic plan in the past. What I can only assume is the person who responded to this was >> maybe reading as if we our strategic plan ended in 2025 and now we're responding to a survey in 2026. >> I missed the good questions on that. Thank you. Anything else on this the section with vision? >> No. >> Okay. structure. Starting on page 15 is the organizational and the physical structure. A lot of the items under structure are the responsibility of your superintendent who either is responsible for it or delegates that authority. So you see the word ensure listed there a number of times. Uh I was just going to check and see if I had any question. Well, a good example would be on page 16. with staff and it looks from your responses that you're all understanding that very well. So hiring, retention of staff, evaluating staff and then uh the policy the um professional development for your staff the lead responsibility and oversee that as your superintendence and as board members you can I think expect anticipate whatever the term is of some updates you know number of applicants what we've done to retain staff those sort of things staff development um if there's anyone that has is not aware of the evaluation process used for staff and you're curious about that. I think that's a fair question. When does it happen? Who evaluates? Is there a difference between a seasoned staff member and a brand new teacher? Those kinds of things. Um but it's not to take a look at like I have um a husband and wife team that live next door to me. It would not be for me on the board saying I want to see their evaluation. And I think that goes without saying >> and I think we have um addressed that in our strategic plan as well. So >> that's one component. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Okay. Let's see the um on page 17. The one statement that I highlight each time is 40. The um process to include community and parent involvement in selecting curriculum, providing feedback, and other opportunities for involvement. So in fact the what's currently what has been known as the world's best workforce and now it's quaser the comprehensive achievement and civic readiness does state that you should have parent and community involvement in selecting curriculum. >> How you do that can differ um and it sounds like that's happening. And then this statement is expanded a little bit too to do exactly what you talked about before looking for opportunities for parent and community involvement. And I've heard you say you've got them on maybe building committees and on some of your other committees and I think that's really positive. >> And we recently did purchase our ELA, our English language arts. And Okay. >> That was done in committee with parents there. Okay. >> Community members as well as staff and >> um the director of teaching and learning. >> Yep. So >> yeah, and that was a that was a breakout committee because a lot of that work happens through our curriculum committee. We're good. Okay. Let's see. Is there anything else under structure that is that you'd like to talk about? I didn't have too many items like the long-term uh looking at page 18, long-term facilities plan, >> technology updates. Those are all going to be administrative responsibilities. And as board members, you'll likely receive updates, reports. Oh yeah. >> Yeah. I think the ones that that's concerned me here is when you get to page 20 and we start talking about public input on the budgeting process. >> I have that circle too. >> And I don't >> I don't recall how I answered this one, >> but uh >> um the budget >> they should be. >> We we've actually recovered the budget quite a bit over the last few years. We were we were nearly in statuto operating debt when I started and >> that's recovered quite a bit. >> True. But >> um >> you're right. It was it was negative. But uh >> Lord >> um >> how how do other groups do that? We have a finance committee. The finance committee is more of a you obtain information and you provide input. what other districts do to kind of move this needle more into the blue and green. >> Say more about your finance committee. Is it a committee of board members and staff? >> Yeah, there's people. >> Yeah, there's typically and people and and community members. >> Typically two to three board members on it. We have our uh >> um >> oh, how do we Well, it's our treasurer, our director of finance chairs that meeting and then we invite members an accountant. She was on >> that committee for many years. Okay. Overseeing >> good. >> And I think to answer your question, I think uh that is similar to what other districts do. Not all districts do something. And actually with just about every school that I visit with, we talk about this particular question. So having some outside community members as part of the process I think is helpful. Um folks that know something about finance, business, accounting, um is helpful. and they can also be spokespersons for you as well. You know, when people are talking about the school budget or decisions that the board has made, you've got some folks now that are knowledgeable that can speak in addition to you here. >> Okay. >> Anything else with structure? Well, just that um in standard 347, seek public input during the budget process. >> Um three people put never. >> Mhm. >> I I think we need to move that to a better understanding >> and because that does happen >> and maybe this discussion was helpful too to make sure that >> that's usually my my thinking on this. You've had the discussion now and now I've learned this and I'll see it a little bit differently as we move ahead. Okay. Accountability. There's some categories within accountability on page 22. The first set of questions there all talk about your strategic plan. the timely review, uh, annually reviewing, celebrating the successes in 54, and I think we've kind of talked about those already, unless there's things that you want to go back to. On page 23, it talks about >> evaluating your superintendent and with that is what process do you use here at Forest Lake Area Schools for evaluating your superintendent? So I can actually speak to that at length because it's >> in prior years we didn't >> we would have a in my very first year on the board we had a superintendent review with Dr. Massie >> but he wrote his goals the week before we had the review so it seemed a little disingenuous. No, >> in the uh >> oh >> in >> that was kind of a derogatory comment on our >> it wasn't actually. So >> superintendent I'm not sure that we >> that that was how the process worked. >> No, he was different before that though. >> The cont I I feel that we've corrected a lot of the issues on this page in the new superintendent contract. The uh new superintendent contract requires that the board and the superintendent agree on goals >> uh by a date in September. Okay. So, we'll be discussing that very soon. And it also requires a review of the superintendent and that's actually tied to his um salary increase >> in year two of the contract. So, I I feel like a lot of these nevers or don't know >> will shift now just through the superintendent's contract. He's going to make sure that we're we're doing this work. >> We've always had excellent superintendent contracts. >> Dr. Massie was very high in academic achievement and wrote very large broad goals for himself, working with all the building principles one-on-one. I can't name them all off the top of my head, >> but that was reviewed. He would write notes. We would give feedback. >> And I think >> when he wrote goals, they were things that some of us didn't even have in our heads because they're broad, >> weren't aware of it. >> Yep. >> Yeah. And then our new superintendent's contract is two years instead of three. >> So I'm not happy with that. >> That isn't the standard, but that's what we're going to have right now. >> Okay. >> So with any other comments and I'll make a few comments about this. Yeah, go ahead. >> So I I recall going into the closed session, you were asking how do we do it? I mean, this is what I I don't remember there being a form that I looked at or filled out. I think I did see his his goals. I I mean, honestly, I I think I saw what his goals were somewhere along the way, >> but there really wasn't anything for me to reference or questions asking me >> what I thought. And so, it was very much just an off-the cuff sort of >> I don't that's how I remember it. Am I wrong? >> Because we used to have a a different structure. >> Okay. before you guys started. I mean it's we had a very >> you know fill out the form and we all filled it out and did our evaluation and so that's kind of this was that way for quite a few years and then it kind of changed I think because it seemed like >> it was just >> he was doing such a amazing job with everything and his goals and so I think maybe we didn't >> pursue it as strict as as we had done it in the past and that's probably when you guys came on board which we didn't have it as strict then So >> strict in terms of what >> well I mean we didn't have it as structured >> as structured I meant structured we didn't have a structure review like >> it kind of went from being a structured yes >> what goals we thought to then allowing the person at the top to develop some very strong goals of their own right >> so that was the more the shift in my mind >> I would challenge that member Tyson I I just I want to call this out because I feel it's important discussion you wouldn't know >> no this did occur prior to my time where we had the shift. But you made the you made the comment we let the person at the top make the decision >> to for his goals. >> The six the six of us no disrespect to superendertise not ours >> member Tyson please let me finish. >> Yeah. No >> no disrespect to superintendent >> right now. >> But the six of us are the people at the top. >> No we're not. >> It is our job as the board to provide that direction to the superintendent. It's not the superintendent's job to tell the board the direction. >> Wow. You're you have a different view of governance than I do. >> It specifically says here to what extent does the board have written goals, not the superintendent have his own written goals. The board has the written goals for the superintendent. >> That's what this says. >> Okay. This MSBA. If we didn't give him the goals, >> then that question would be a negative. >> This question says that we give him the written goals, not just >> so you're the superintendent's goals. >> That's what this says. >> I don't even know what to write. >> Okay. >> If I might please. >> Yeah. You might you might say that in most cases this is something that's done in collaboration with the superintendent and the board. So the board the superintendent might get some ideas from board members. Uh look at the strategic plan as you mentioned earlier. >> Um maybe even reference some of the the items that you have in the um superintendent rubric that you have. And then this is it this is something that is co-authored between the board. Correct. The superintendent doesn't >> um >> inform the board of what her or his goals are. >> Correct. but it's done together. Yeah. >> So, the discussion was healthy because you've all you kind of creating that awareness again of what's happened in the past and and moving forward. So, the takeaways, few things here for you. First of all, do it. That's a good thing because you'd be surprised. I've run into that. You know, it has not happened for years and years and years. Do it. The chair usually takes the lead on coordinating it once in a while. That's how we structure the committee or something. Um, the time of the year does not matter. It's whatever time of the year makes sense to you. Sometimes, you know, it can be calendar, it can be fiscal year having a tool. So, in your packet, the um standardsbased goals and standards based um this is a great tool that you can use. The individual board members should have feedback. So, when you talk about something to evaluate based on, there should be something where you can provide feedback on that, >> right? that goes to the board chair who does a summary of it. You can utilize closed session and we recommend that you do that for that discussion. And then the other thing um the goals. So goals really should tie to your strategic plan >> and taking a look at that and usually whatever the things are that are happening in the 2627 school year are the things that are going to be the goals for that that calendar year. Most superintendents would like to have a professional development goal or two and so they will do that and then at the end um I suggest that you know make sure that it is a collaborative process. It's not >> we're telling the superintendent or the superintendent's telling us but you're having that conversation mutually agreed upon. >> Yeah. Does is that helpful? >> Um and then a couple of resources too. our um my colleague Barb Dorne does a superintendent evaluation third Thursday webinar that's posted on our website. So you can take a look at that plus they will come and do an inservice for you and you may want to consider that of helping you use this tool the goals and standardsbased and helping um and taking a look at your strategic plan kind of tying it all together for you and even some of the the um metrics that you might use too if you think that would be helpful. and especially for a newer board just to get you on track with that. So I don't I don't hear that there was a right or wrong necessarily here in the discussion and I also understand sometimes you know superintendent things are just going so well and then you know you maybe don't put as much time in. I would encourage you to do something on an annual basis and I think your superintendent would like that too. >> Well yeah mentioned earlier the contract will require so yes good point. Okay. So, hope hopefully those comments were insightful for you. Uh, on page 24, a lot of this is about the student academic progress and really the messaging is you're all about students and you're all about achievement and success. So, you should be obsessing on that if there's anything that you do. >> So, that's accountability. anything you want to go back to and then we'll wrap up with advocacy and communication. I did not have a lot of comments here for you on that one. Statement 62, just knowing that the advocacy portion of MSBA, our government relations team, we've kind of talked about that, really helped take the lead with that. Uh you've got your responses are interesting for 65 a process for responding to questions concerns. How does that happen with your board and how do you tie the chain of command in >> chain of responsibility I should say and chain of communication? >> Do you have a and that would be something you put in your handbook too by the way what you process. Yes. >> My experience so far is that we are all answering our own emails. I mean, >> there were some that >> the previous superintendent would type in on. I think, you know, if he got them or maybe somebody might have forwarded an email to him. >> I I I think I forwarded a >> and maybe another member forwarded in a really kind of almost threatening email to him. So, I was like, I'm not even to touch that one. Um, so but I think we're kind of all in our own digital world here where we're just responding to people that email out >> whether it's to the entire board or just >> Mhm. >> me or >> Okay. Well, in my experience, um, and what I've always followed is that >> I will talk to the superintendent before I respond because I don't know the bigger picture >> if it's special ed parent or if it's a general ed parent or if it's a sports question. >> So, I don't respond until I've talked to the superintendent because >> there's a bigger picture, right? Mhm. >> And I don't want to respond in a way that offends anybody, that directs them, that gives them the wrong idea because I don't know. I need to look to my superintendent >> to give me feedback on that. >> Other for me, the key word here is process. >> So in manufacturing, you have to do this, >> then you do this, >> then you do this, then you do this, and you cannot skip >> anything. And you can't put one before the other. Can't he treat before you? You all this kind of stuff. So where's the process? If the process doesn't exist, >> which would I would assume be in the handbook, >> which I haven't seen, >> then there is no process. >> Okay. >> Now, each person can do their own process, >> but that's not a board process. That's on their own self. So if somebody has their own process, >> well then they can follow a process. >> Yeah. Uh very good. Can we go to member Corkran? I think was first. Did you have a comment? Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, Jill. >> Well, I think one point you just made that was really good. You said chain of command and so right >> the way I have or was suggested that I I do things is you get an email from a lot of times we get a concerned parent with a very specific situation. I don't know the situation. I don't know if a principal's been involved. I I don't know who's been involved. So, I will reply generally, you know, and say, I you know, thank you for sending your email. I I you know, I hear you. I understand what you're saying. And then I will forward it to the superintendent or forward it to director Wilson or whoever. I I think that's an important thing. >> We can't be off on our own, you know, sort of making not promises, but like make, you know, cuz now we're sticking our nose in something. Um and talking about like a handbook. I have seen on another district's website, and I don't know the words exactly, but when it's when when you have the email to email the super the school board, excuse me, it says, >> "Have you contacted, you know, your building principal? Have you contacted what what like have you done these three steps before?" And not that we don't want to hear from people. Of course, we do. I, you know, I um I took a phone call once and I probably shouldn't have done that, you know, cuz I just I can't >> I can't offer any assistance and the person sort of took it that I was maybe offering assistance. So, I you know, I think speaking of like process and handbook. >> Of course, we want people to contact us. Of course, we want to be available, but we cannot be out there on our own sort of promising things or, you know, cuz we don't we don't know the whole story. You know, we don't know that. We just don't know the whole story. So, we have to be careful, I believe, when we careful emails and talking to folks. >> Yeah. >> Go ahead. >> Like I've been saying from the very beginning that we are not in the day-to-day operations of the district. We are policy makers. We we >> the big picture. >> We do the big picture. So, those those requests and things like that, we have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. And I agree that we can we can say thank you, but we can't fix anything. We have to advise and send it to the superintendent. So, And what seems to have typically happened though is that the proper authority in the build in building in question >> eventually handles and then responds and then >> the email trail will show that and so but again that doesn't >> it doesn't show that there is a process. >> So >> so you may you may want to have a conversation about that. Yeah, chain of command. >> And I think yeah, chain of command, chain of responsibility, chain of communication, whatever that might be. And that and again, get that in your handbook. I really appreciate what um member uh Christensen has said too with responding. So, in general, I think a a a way to handle that is when you get those emails, if it's an email that goes to all board members and the superintendent, and you all know that, let the superintendent handle it. If it goes to all board members but not the superintendent, let the board chair respond and just say, "Gail, thank you so much for responding or for your question. I've CCD our superintendent um Jacobson on this email." He will respond and then if you get the individual ones, I think it's always just best because I wouldn't want to take a chance in this day and age to answer a question and then comes back to haunt you or it's incorrect. I always think um then then respond you know just kindly you know thank you so much and CC your superintendent and um sometimes superintendent is well aware of all the things that are going on there's more to the story a lot more I shouldn't say sometimes usually all the time and so just let them deal with that I think is probably best for for those kinds of things. Yeah, I would I would wholeheartedly agree with the whole conversation. I go back to one of those first documents that you talked about in terms of board governance. >> And I think that's what we're speaking to here. >> And um and I think what member Christensen is also saying in some words is that the person closest to the issue is the most capable to be able to solve the issue. >> Yeah. and and it's difficult for all of the members of this board who live full lives and careers outside of this to be able to find out what happened with the assignment and why isn't in the great book or whatever it might be and we want to help that parent right away. We want that we want to get that and sometimes parents don't know where to go next >> and so I think what you just described and the way that's been done before is >> a good way to handle that. always give a polite, supportive response, but you don't have to try to get into the >> nitty-gritty because it's not my area of expertise and and it certainly is the building principal or the director or superintendent. >> And I also think so, thank you for that. I also think to not have an expectation from your superintendent to share the rest of the story because sometimes there's data privacy things involved and as a a former board member there's a lot of things that I learned about that I wish I did not know because in our community I mean really you you've all been there. I mean it can be people that your kids play hockey with. It can be people in your faith community. It can be your neighbors. Uh so you don't need to you just there's no reason to know those kinds of things. So sometimes if the superintendent doesn't provide that feedback there might be a good reason why other than maybe saying yes I responded >> you know if that's and that's I'll leave that up to superintendent to decide how he wants to handle that. But I think that would be a good topic of discussion at some point to come to consensus or agreement on that. To that point, Gail, I think one of my most asked questions on situations like that was, "Was that taken care of?" >> Yeah. >> Just it's a yes or no. Yes, it was taken care of. >> Sometimes I >> I'll ask for a little bit more detail because the parent will be >> making specific cases and it turns into more of a dialogue. But like >> like you said, sometimes uh once you know something, you know something and you don't want to know some >> unknow it. Yeah. >> Right. some of the things that you're saying and then I'll um go to you some of the things that you're talking about too. I think it's in the next one uh 66 ensuring that the public knows about your your role and sometimes you just need to say that you know we do have a process in place and so have that elevator speech uh putting your board governance model on your website under the board. I don't think you have or do you have that might just be a nice thing to do too if people are looking then it's pretty clear you know this is >> expectations for board and expectations for superintendent and then >> remember the Tissson what were you going to >> well I was just waiting to finish up this area because I'd like to go back to um 25 um under >> question or page 25 member Tyson I might have flipped it over once more. I'm sorry. Page 24, question 61 under accountability. Um, one thing that I'd like to see move on this because we did have two responses that were never >> and regularly evaluate and adjust resources and strategies for closing achievement gaps to minimize their effectiveness. Um we are a achievement integration district so we always have review on that at the board table >> and the board always know what what those percentages are and how those gaps are closing. So >> just would I'm not certain why there would be responses as never but maybe it's just a different interpretation that could be I don't understand. So thank you absolutely. Anything else under advocacy and communication that you'd like to comment on? Questions? I suppose perhaps um when we make up the handbook that some of these communication items should be in there so that people know yes it's on the website or it comes out to the >> parents at the beginning of the year >> or something that people just are not aware of. >> Good suggestion. I like that. Anything else with any of the questions? We made it through. >> We did. Wow. >> So, as we kind of wind down, takeaways, anything that you would like to continue to discuss, I have some thoughts for you, but I'm going to hear from you first. What were the things that >> I think that um everyone is going to have to really consider and work through that whole um moving past >> the past like somehow >> get over a hump I mean of block here >> and I don't know what it is. I think probably it's different for everybody but >> we're all going to have to do that. Yeah, I think you need to I think sort that out >> and we can talk. >> Excellent point. I think it would be helpful if we had could work on some things that would enhance how we get over that >> hump. Okay, other takeaways. >> Well, I just think this was really eye opening. Um, and I think you know some of the nevers are don't you know like not sure. I think that was clear with some of the maybe the interpretation of the questions. So I think that we learned it was a board here some of those >> some of those questions that we probably didn't fully understand. >> And I guess it came out that we need a handbook. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Definitely a big take for me. you got to find her handbook >> and I think that will give guidance for communication and different tools that we maybe that we need as a board. I think that's important. >> But this was really good, Gail. Thank you so much. Thank you. >> Yeah. One thing that I noted here was uh when we were discussing question 20 here, there was some talk of a a strength >> and I've done a lot of those executive profiles over the years. >> I think that could be super beneficial during uh probably an onboarding process. It could be something that all board members would have to do just to get it caught up. But uh I think that could be really >> beneficial because we do have different ways of getting work done. We do have different ways of I guess celebrating success. We have different ways of approaching >> uh different questions. >> And if you don't know that about the person sitting next to you, >> uh I mean just for example, I'm I'm very tactical. I'm very data driven and that's just and and being chair that's kind of how I manage >> the boardroom is it's it's the process I've got the book here somewhere. >> This is the process we work through and uh member Cast has talked about process a lot so I know that um he's probably similar to me in that respect but I couldn't say it definitively >> and there are other people that that look at things more artfully or emotionally >> and I know in business that can be a challenge. So, why wouldn't it be a challenge at this table, especially if you don't know about the person who's sitting next to you or what their approach is? >> Um, you know, the tactical approach can be looked at as >> callous >> by somebody who's emotionally um addressing a situation. So, I I think that could be really helpful. Um, I would suggest that perhaps we could put in the minutes that if we have um handled one of these questions during the board meeting that the minutes kind of specifically say that yes, we have um whatever the wording is in here. And so then then that it's so that it's in the minutes and when we review the minutes I know like oh yes >> you know I know that I've heard all this but yes that >> addresses that topic >> ties to the staff evaluation question or something that be pretty easy to do something that the long-term care the long long um the facility >> plan those kinds of things and tie that back to >> um were you gonna say something? So yeah, I have a >> No, >> sorry. I was just going to say I I feel like in theory that could be a good idea. In reality, I'm I'm not sure like who would keep track of that and I mean >> who inserts that and then it's someone's opinion like I don't think we did that question. I think we did that question. I mean I'm not I I wonder if there's other ways to do that besides in the in the minutes. I mean the minutes are already >> difficult and timeconuming enough. I wonder if there's a a different way to do that. Um, I'm just not sure >> how that would work and maybe add it to an agenda item once in a while or we think of ways to incorporate that into our agendas >> somehow. I'm just looking for a way for that we all acknowledge that that happened. >> Yeah. >> Yes, that's good. >> So, minutes something. >> We could we could tie it to the agenda where we basically say like, you know, this is the category that we're >> um I don't know, advocacy and communication. I'm not going to come up with a good example, but maybe we add it to the agenda. I know like the finance one's easy because when we're talking about the audit that >> and we just call it out in the agenda. This is a a finance topic or this is tied to student achievement. Uh >> member Tyson mentioned the discussion of achievement integration. That that question surprised me as well because >> we've approved it now twice in the last 16 months. So, we've absolutely addressed achievement of gaps. >> Um, >> but uh yeah, if you tie the tie the benchmarks that we're looking for to the creation of the agenda, that gives something the board chair and the >> superintendent when we're building it to make sure we hit all of the things. Uh, >> the one I as board chair that the ones I hyperfocus on is making sure that we're addressing um academic achievement. We know what's going on in the buildings. We have regular um presentations from different buildings to show us what makes them unique and how they're doing. >> And then the financial piece that's easy because there's a lot of statute driven things there. >> Um but uh that can be helpful as we generate >> agendas. Yeah, I appreciate that. And I think you can lean on your superintendent, too. You know, and I said before, he's probably taking notes, you know, either writing them down or in his mind to make sure, oh, yes, I'm going to address this. Make sure it's very clear at upcoming board meetings. So, you could try that as well. I think just >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I don't know if I have an immediate idea on how we would do that, but I Let me do some thinking on that. >> Think about it in your sleep tonight. >> Throw your saxophone in your sleep. >> Throw your saxophone. >> I just have one more thing to add. um member chair talked about um you know team building and I know when I served on 916 the intermediate district board we did some fun team building events or just quickly before our meeting started we get together earlier and do a team building event in the lunchroom um and also >> um MSBA we did Clifton Allen um and then had a retreat and it is so insightful you learn people's communication styles you learn how they process information, what they need. It's It's very good. So, maybe we could plan some team building. >> Yeah. >> Things. >> Yeah. >> We used Legos once. We used >> lockup room, locker room. What are those called? >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> So, >> and that's where my question was going to go ear earlier is I I think that there's some genuine energy in the room to find ways to come together. >> Yes. and and all row in the boat in the same direction and work as a team. >> I'd like to think through any sort of strategy or way that I can support that. When I think of, you know, one of the goals I probably will have as a superintendent, that might be one of them. >> And I think I have to play a key cog cog in that solution. Um, Gail, with your travels throughout the state and and interaction with different boards, >> we have have shared that this particular board and this district has not really used study sessions or work sessions a great deal. I'm not talking about close sessions. We we do that, but study sessions and work sessions, not a business meeting. Um I believe that there are some districts that even have one business meeting per month and the other one is a study session >> that lowers the energy and creates more >> crossboard member dialogue. Can you share with us what are >> some some patterns you've seen and how different boards do this and then >> just to speak to the fact that these are open meetings as well. >> Correct. Yes. Correct. >> Okay. I I was surprised that you didn't have study sessions. I made an assumption. I shouldn't have made that. So, >> there was a day and time where it was a regular business meeting and it was once a month and then schools started to realize that you can take care of a lot of additional business and have discussions at a study session. I would say most schools have once a month their regular business meeting and then a second meeting during the month that is a study session where you can really do that deeper dive, bring in folks that can um help share updates, um research information to help you make a decision. Both are subject to the open meeting law. Usually most of your decisions, your motions, your action items will be at the regular business meeting, but you can certainly do that at a study session. And as long as you have them posted at the beginning of the year, first Monday of the month and third Monday of the month, then uh you can update the agenda and approve it at the meeting as compared to a special session for one topic. You don't have that flexibility. The other thing you could do is create those study sessions and if there's not enough business, you don't have to have it either. And once in a while that happens or you could dip your toe in, you could try it on an every other month basis or quarterly, something like that, just to get kind of the idea of how that would work. >> And um Yeah. And it would be the the same as your regular meetings. It's just that you'd be doing that deeper dive into particular topics and it could be your own professional development, too. Yeah, but you see some districts they take no business action on study sessions. It is just dialogue and >> um and then my next question would be does MSBA ever facilitate like the the strengthfinder or the four color personality? Um >> we don't have a tool like that. Um I might be able to give you some ideas of who does some of those that we've maybe used for our own staff, but that's not something that we have done. uh not not in that organized type of way, I guess. So, yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I was just commenting Teamworks does some of that work. >> You know, my colleague um >> from Columbia Heights, I believe they've always done workshops on the second meeting of the month and >> it's just more relaxed. It's in more informal. they sit at a smaller table instead of a big board table. And it it really has helped their board to just make those decisions at the board table >> clear, defined, and unified. >> So, >> okay. >> I think it would be a great idea. >> I like the idea, too. Do you think partly too I mean this week we're trying to meet with you on this topic like >> on the budget >> I I just wonder if something like those discussions >> would be something that we would do at a work session as opposed to >> you and another administrator trying to find time and then I had to cancel and you know what I mean just uh logistically. >> Yeah, certainly could. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I just was asking the question so that everybody could begin to think about this and what options >> are are open. We don't >> have to just always do it the way we've always done things, >> right? >> And if if this isn't working right now, then let's try >> some different ideas. >> Yeah, I like that. >> Yeah, >> I think that's a great idea. >> Congratulations on working your way through this. I'm gonna just ask is this the first time that you've had more of a candid conversation like you've had this evening about how you interact you >> so I'm >> aside from experiencing it >> aside from experiencing. Yeah. And so I think you know congratulations on that. I mean that's a hard thing to do and you were all civil about it and respectful and I think you need to be proud of that. I think your takeaway again is to know that we're going to have differences and always look at what your mission is. What are you here for? And sometimes you just have to swallow hard and and move on. So, um, but it does seem like that's a conversation you're going to want to continue and identifying some norms and maybe waiting until your new board member is >> or after elections kind of determine that timeline for that I think would be healthy. Yeah. Glenn perhaps um to come up with some differentiations and different areas might >> vary but differentiation between okay >> if it's happens every board meeting well then yes that's always but could it also be always if it's planned on doing it every >> other month >> then that would be always in that case >> so to make the differenti between what >> how We determine whether whether it's always never most of the time >> because these would likely change >> quite a bit. >> Yep. Absolutely. >> You said you were going to have some summary notes at the end of all of this. Uh >> is that what we just >> I will create that and email it to you and Superintendent Jacobson and then you can >> I was going to say at a study session but um then you can continue that discussion. And a couple other things I'll maybe add is you talked about doing an an annual assessment. I think there were some things there too that I'll highlight for you. There's not a lot. I mean I think you you pretty much identified the things that as far as moving on. So >> again going back to the executive profile um I'm I'm the the goal driven individual. >> Um >> how do you recommend we move forward with the the strategic plan building out the new one? It's >> Mhm. >> Um 2020 to 2025 and we're almost done with 2026. >> Yes. >> So how do we make that that logical step from this discussion to that discussion? >> So I think that you may want to continue that discussion. You definitely are at the point where you want to recreate your strategic plan. Go back and look at it. There's a number of options that um we could talk about. I would be absolutely thrilled to work with you on it again to bring that past experience forward into this next one and deciding if um you know committee surveys, listening sessions, all those kind of things. I I do think that you want to make sure that you do something after the first of the year when you have your new board in place um versus starting now. I mean, you obviously can have some conversations now to get that moving forward. And I um I guess it's really up to you if you want me to work with your superintendent to bring recommendations or if you want me to, you know, present another time talking about options. I'm pretty flexible. >> Unless somebody at the table objects, I think it would be a really good idea for you and Superintendent Jacobson together. >> We can certainly do that. >> Part of the plan was to use that >> uh the outputs of this discussion tonight to help formulate the goals that we're going to present to the board next month for for him. So, I think that that could be extremely beneficial. Um, okay. Especially your >> from the outside looking in, you've you've heard a lot from us tonight. Absolutely. >> I'm sure you could be really helpful with Superintendent Jacobson. >> Okay. >> Kind of formulate draft number one of those goals. >> Absolutely. We'll plan to do that. >> Okay. >> Thank you so much. Enjoy the rest of your meeting, too. >> Thank you for driving all the way up here. >> Oh, that was not a problem. Not a problem. >> All right. Keep up the good work that you already that good momentum that you have from this discussion too. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Have a great night. >> Drive safe. >> Yes, I will. >> We are nearly 3 hours into the meeting. >> There isn't a whole lot here, but uh >> that's exactly what I was going to recommend. >> Five minute recess. >> So, without objection, we'll recess for approximately 10 minutes when board members are back in five. >> Five minutes. >> Approximately five minutes. All right, we are in recess. All right. And now I'll call the Force Lake Area Schools regular school board meeting for Wednesday, August 26th back into session. Um, member clerk, please take the roll call of attendance. >> Okay. Member Castle >> here. >> Member Christensen here. >> Member Antenson is here. Member Corman >> here. >> Member Tyson >> here. >> And member Reveline >> here. >> Everybody's here. >> All right. Thank you. The next item on the agenda is scheduled and unscheduled visitors and green cards. I do not see any for us. So, we will move on to approving the consent agenda. Before we do, is there any item that a member would like to pull from the consent agenda? >> Yes, member chair. I'd like to pull um >> 64 >> through 7, please. >> 64 through 67. Yes. Um any other items that we would like to pull? If not, I would entertain a motion to approve 6.1 through 6.3. >> So, moved. Second. >> Okay. Okay, we have a motion, a second. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. Those opposed. All right. Motion carries. The consent agenda is approved. U member Tyson, before we take a motion on items 6.4 through 6.7, do you want to address them individually or would you um be okay with bundling them into >> I'm going to bundle them if >> Okay. In that case, I would take a motion to approve items 6.4 through 6.7. >> So motion and a second. U member Tyson. >> Okay. So, a couple things I noticed and these are just things that um re refer to the board work. Um good governance language is more calling um board members who aren't officers directors um instead of members. I noticed that in a couple of the two handbooks, the junior flams and the elementary also in one of them, Julie Corkran is listed is not listed as vice chair. >> Oh wow. >> Um and I believe that's in flams. And then the other thing I noticed is um that then the high school and the community school handbooks the board is not listed. So I think for continuity sake we might want to have it in all of them or have it in >> those are >> none of them but I think it should be in all of them. >> I think it should be in all of them. >> I think those are excellent observations >> if I might. >> Yeah. >> I just have one more thing then I I'm done with what I want to add. The last thing to add, and I've noticed this being director of district 6 on colleagues websites, is that they list the date of either of the school year or the term because, you know, board members turn over in January. So, a parent might be contacting a board member who's no longer on the board. >> Um, catch. So I've seen it done two ways where you can just make sure the date is at the top and then they can refer to oh they you know or listing the term end >> or to point to the website where they can see what the changes when the change happens. >> You could do that. >> I I you know I would think that people would want to talk about it the do the admin assistants type them up or correct make corrections. That's yeah I I don't know who in the building whether it's one of the uh administrators themselves or they had an administrative assistant but I think we can easily get these things cleaned up. Can I ask you to repeat member Tyson your very first one? >> I mentioned that um >> was it the difference between some are directors some are members. >> Right. So member Christensen and I are not officers but we have been but this school year we're not. So we should be called directors not members. >> Yes. But >> is that for >> that would be for anybody whether you had been in an officer position or not. Correct. Okay. >> And so if it were >> I just thought you you >> I didn't know why you were prefacing it like that. So I just wanted to make sure like >> So if it changed next year and I was clerk and you weren't, you'd be listed as director. >> Okay. I Yeah. >> And so forth. >> So then would we keep that terminology in all? So instead of saying member Tyson, I would say director Tyson. >> Well, I think when we're around the board, we're members together. So that's that's why that is used. But in other listings, your term your terminology is a director >> of the board of education is what a lot of people call it. >> Um would it would it be permissible or would it please the board if we just said board member? The only reason why I say that is those officer and direct those title changes happen in January and these handbooks are are typically updated during the summer months. >> So there might be some a clumsy overlap there. >> Yeah. >> Where we could we could just simply say board member and then direct them to the board to the website for >> Yeah, let's do that. >> I was just going off of what I had learned on other websites and other districts and colleagues. So >> Okay. So, um, >> and I had one more one. >> Yes. >> I had Were we done talking about that? >> Um, well, I was going to offer a motion to accept that, but if you have another anything that would would coincide with that. No. Okay. So, um, Superintendent Jacobson, can you help me um craft a motion from what we heard? Do >> Excuse me. Do we need a motion or can we just what have we said we um >> advise or do we need a motion to to >> if we approve the motion as it is, we'll be approve approving the documents as they're presented. So if we want to have some changes, we'll just offer an amendment to >> um the documents as stated by member Tyson. I think they were all great suggestions. >> That would probably work. Might might I offer this motion to approve the documents with the necessary additions of all handbooks, stu uh student handbooks having our board members listed within as well as a reference to our website where they could go and find the the official um titles. I suppose that's not the right word >> and uh term links. >> Perfect. Okay. I I make the motion as Superintendent Jacobson just uh announced to us. Becky, did that >> you capture that? >> The report will >> wonderful. Okay. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Okay, we have a motion and a second on the motion to amend as member Tyson offered. Is there any discussion on that? >> All right, seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. Those opposed. Okay, that motion carries. U member Christensen, >> I just wanted to highlight something on the high school um student handbook and it's on page 27 and I uh it's talking about um the bell-to-bell no cell procedure which is effective this school year and I just know that a lot of parents are concerned you know with cell phone use and our elementary school does a great job with no I mean they no devices no smart watches anything K5 middle school has done a really great job over the years also doing the same bell to bell no And I know it's been a little more difficult in the high school um with the older kids and um I just want to acknowledge that and um maybe Mr. Caldwell could speak to it a little bit, but I know that they the high school has done a really great job of um sort of publicizing that or getting people ready for that. And so, you know, it says here, "The expectation from 7:45 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. every day, all personal cell phones and communication devices, including earbuds and smartwatches, must be either left at home, locked in your car, or stored in a locker." And it goes through some different consequences. So, um, I think that's something that we've been talking about here at the board table, having a cell phone policy, and I just want to >> commend the high school and wish them the best of luck this year, >> uh, getting everyone on board um, with that. But I know it's it's a concern of our parents. So I appreciate that. >> Perfect. Memorson. >> Well, so I I have that written down as well and I am a big proponent of less distractions for the kids. I I'm I want I was reading it and I'm like, well, okay, because I know that most of the kids at the high school don't actually have a locker, or at least that's my understanding that we don't have lockers for everybody. They don't all have lockers. you seek one out from the office. Whoops. If you if you want a locker. So, and if you don't have a locker and a car to leave it in, so you absolutely can't bring it in the building at all whatsoever. I mean, that's the expectation there because >> No, I'm wondering if this is realistic or people are they allowed to put them in their bag like what? Because this is >> clarification stolen cell phone is that your cell phones be stolen. We're asking them to leave them home in their car or not bring them. >> If they do have them and they have them on their person, they need to be silenced and away. >> If we see the actual cell phone, >> it's an issue. If it's in your pocket, no big deal. If it's in your bag, no big deal. We don't want to cause stress, >> more stress in our high school students by forcing them not to have them on them. It will cause anxiety to go through the roof. >> Oh yeah. >> Most of the families that I have spoken to are totally fine as long as >> they can keep it in their bag so if something did happen >> Yeah. >> that they could reach into their bag, they could get a hold of mom and dad or whatever. >> Okay. I've been keeping a tally on my desk of people reaching out. I've had one negative comment come to me. Everything else has been positive and it's been less than 15. >> Wow. >> So, should this be adjusted then to say that they could keep it in their backpack? Cuz this is like >> the expectation >> is here. >> Yeah. >> As long as we don't see them. >> We don't want to write it so black and white that it has to be this or this. >> Flexibility. The other piece in there is we're asking them to put smartwatches away. As long as they're not using their smartwatch, >> communicating, having it connected to their phone or whatever, we are not going to go so far as to say you absolutely cannot have a smartwatch on your >> on your wrist. >> Okay. >> Ideally, we would want them to put it away. We can certainly adjust it to make it more gray in the handbook, but the more gray we have it there. >> True. >> Yeah. >> This is the expectation. We want to create some gray in there so people can learn how to >> Okay. Yes. They Yeah. Okay. Sorry again. I appreciate you coming up and talking because >> hang out. >> Oh >> yeah, member Tyson. >> So, thank you for providing that information. When I was reading this, you know, we recently know that the Stillwater School District went through this and they presented on it at the leadership conference. I think some of us were >> we learned a lot from talking to our friends at Stillwater. >> Yes. So, they had bought the the collection boxes, but we aren't doing that. We're not >> because we found they what they found out is that the collection boxes weren't even needed. >> Correct. >> And they had made that investment. So we aren't going that route at all. >> We have two cell phone jails that we have purchased. One is in Miss Miller's office, one is in Miss Lang's office. >> So we do have >> Yes. So if your phone comes to the office, we'll write the name on it. We'll call the parents. >> It will be in Miss Lang or Miss Miller's office. We'll work with the parents on how they want to get that back. Mhm. >> Most of the parents that I've talked to said it can stay there for two weeks and then we'll come to I know it was a huge adjustment for their district, but they said that so many positive things resulted from that with how the parents felt and how the students felt and all the way around. So, I'm hopeful that it'll be a smooth transition for everyone >> and we'll we'll be flexible and we'll change where we need to. >> And I've got a couple of things to add to that point. This is part of the reason we write policy in the manner that we do. It gives administration some discretion to apply um the policies practices. >> Yeah. Within practices that make sense for the school, make sense for the class, makes sense for the administration, >> and make sense for the student. So, I'd like to point out that uh there is medical exceptions here. Um, we we recognize that some students have a medical need for devices at times, but we also expect that that won't be abused. I don't know if principal Caldwell wants to address that at all or if that's enough. >> We just I mean, we want to be common sense there. We have diabetics. We have people with heart issues and kidney issues and all kinds of stuff that their bodies are being monitored by devices on their cell phones. our staff knows it and we want to be able to work with those families so the student can go up to the teacher and say, "Look, my alarm just went off on my cell phone. I have to go get my glucose checked or whatever it is." We don't want to take that away from them. >> But those students should also not have their cell phones out in front of the class texting and on Instagram and all those all those things. We want to work with them, not >> be interesting. >> Make it an absolute thou shall not and be providing all kinds of iPads and things like that just to skirt the issue in the first place. Right. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Well, thank you. I'm hope wishing good luck and and that this is >> it'll be a work in progress. >> I know. >> I hope there's a lot of confidence behind these good looks and we'll get it done. >> Look at their wishes. >> A lot of hope and encouragement behind the good luck because I think it's all for the better. So, it's going to be good for them. >> Is there any additional discussion? >> Oh, I'm uh yeah. If not, we have a motion on the table to approve items 6.4 through 6.7. >> Yeah. Well, I have a I have a question about the high school one. >> Okay, that would be Yeah, that would be applicable now. >> Okay. So, I was reading through the the high school handbook and I and I honestly I didn't even get to the other ones because when I talked to you, I I or read the email, I mistook it for that we were going to hold on all of these and send them. >> So, I didn't get through the community school. Anyway, um on page 14 of the the high school handbook, it it has student behavior and it has a discipline policy. It has a link to the discipline policy and you go to the the discipline policy um which has been stuck for a while I believe. Um then within the discipline policy it has a complaint procedure. It states that the procedure will be referenced in the student handbook available for view within the policy which I don't I didn't see it in policy 515 when I went to policy 515 and I just don't know I can't remember now because it's been so long since we were working on that. >> Is it the same or is it still sitting in the in the policy committee committee? >> Yeah. So, it's been so long. So, anyway, it says here, page 14, student behavior discipline links, and then you go to the discipline policy. It's talking about a form that you can fill out, a complaint procedure, and it's not in the policy. And then you go back to the to the book and you go down to um page 26, discipline complaint form. And first of all, I I I'm kind of at this point I was like, dang, it's a it's a hard thing to hunt down in in the forest here is this discipline complaint form. And then also on the discipline complaint form, it gives a twoday time period from the time of school action for someone to fill it out and and get it here. And so I think I I just think that if someone wanted something like that, it should be a lot easier to find than than what I went through finding it here. >> And then it says the school then has, you know, that's part of our policy has three days to investigate. Um I I think there's multiple things to look at but I think the process to find that discipline complaint form or maybe appeal form whatever is too difficult. I don't know where it is even on our website to be honest with you. So >> so perhaps there could be a link not only to the policy but to that >> do the form itself as well. >> Yeah itself has to be given in paper by the principal. >> Pardon me. The form itself has to be requested of the principal and the principal gives them the form. >> Oh, they don't print it up. >> Not readily available. >> Okay. But I mean, and so appreciate I'm so sorry everybody. >> Trying to make sure people can hear me and I keep Huh. >> Then it should say that. >> Well, right. And I mean, yes, >> it's actually attached in here. >> And I think >> it's attached. >> Yeah. I I I just think that >> it questions and and saying, "Hey, I don't think this is right >> maybe they know to call Mr. Caldwell. I mean, and people might know to call the principal or email the principal and then maybe you know I >> it should say it in there though. >> Yes, if that's >> I mean like here's the process >> and and just it shouldn't be oh okay and then read through this 20 some page document and then 15 of the discipline policy. There it is." And then I forgot to write that down like what phase of the policy it was on. There's a lot of reading to find that. >> Mr. Caldwell, can I ask you to come forward again? >> I in practice when when there's major discipline with a student, this is one of the things we'll go over with the families when they come in and we our deans and APS are really really good at knowing how is this going to go and anybody who really pushes back and they say, you know, we need to go talk to Mr. Caldwell. the first thing out of their mouths is, "Look, we have a appeal process. Here's a form that you can fill out." Um, a lot of times they will just come sit in my office and we'll talk about it and we'll we'll fill out the form together or whatever and then I will investigate. We'll make >> action at that point. This since this was put in place, I believe it was through state legislature. Um, I think we've had two people use this form. Yeah, but probably I mean I'm thinking maybe part of the reason only two people have used it is because they don't know where it is that it exists. >> And you may be right. Part of what happens with this by the time they get the form filled out per and I believe all this is written out in statute. I'm sort of on the spot here. Um by the time they get it fill it out and get it back to me and we investigate the discipline's done, the kids back in school. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I >> so whatever happens so the work on changing it is what we might change in the system to reflect >> an error that we may have made and then we put corrective action in place >> but I think she's talking about before we even get to that point. So how do they even know to do >> when their when their child gets in trouble? It's through a conversation. >> But maybe it's not always going to be >> well Mrs. Antonson your kid's in trouble. Come to the office please. Maybe it's a your kid's in trouble. Um, okay. And and you're dealing with it and then you kind of going through this process of figuring out what has happened and the communication breaks down. You don't get to >> talk to the principal. >> We can certainly re make it more more right >> or even just maybe document that within the step. >> Yeah. Yeah. Castle was saying if you have a grievance with discipline like here's what you do. Call the principal. there's a form and and instead of you know >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Yep. We can we could we could outline some of that and just >> this is a document that is constantly edited. >> Um it changes all the time. I mean when policy committee comes in and changes something this this gets changed. So >> anything that we talk about tonight will get changed and it will probably be changed again before it comes to the board >> again because the legislature meets, policy meets, this is constantly being Yes. >> And thanks for coming up again and talking. >> No, not a problem. And we can work on that and make that more clear. >> I also want to say that I think when it references policy 515, it might be like the ancient policy 515. And I swear I saw >> references the one that is currently in our >> on our web page as the active policy. >> Correct. >> That this one is >> Yeah. The references to the active policy. All the links that are in our our handbooks >> link current active policy >> that we have. It doesn't talk about stuff that policy committee is still working on. >> Um that I know for absolute fact I had a whole team that works on this and I look at it briefly just to make sure that the big things are there and some of these things we'll dive in tomorrow and that's not a problem to make that >> steps very clear. >> I have a question which I think kind of piggybacks on what member Antonson's asking here >> and I'm I'm kind of questioning the feasibility, but would it be feasible that if it were just a requirement, if there was a disciplinary action, it just has to be offered that, hey, we have this complaint process you can follow. >> We can put that in a written thing. Our I mean, I'm not in on every single discipline thing that happens. I know our deans talk about this frequently >> because, as you can imagine, parents get upset and they say, "Look, if there's a problem, we have a disciplinary complaint form. >> It's readily available." >> Okay. Do we need to add that to the handbook or is this adequate for the >> Say that again. Do we need to add what >> do we need to add some sort of a directive that it's required that parents be offered this discipline? >> Well, I think procedure know about it like it doesn't you know somewhere within the handbook it says instead of flipping from one thing to the next it's just too much reading if you're having an issue like you just kind of want to know. >> Yeah. >> Well, I like Mark's idea. >> Yeah. I like Mark I think Mark's idea is is is a good one is that we just make note that that if there is a discipline complaint form if you um if you like to have a copy of it you would request that of your child's principal because I could even say that a a parent could come in have a conference with the dean go home reflect on it more and say you know I just want to >> I want to revisit this >> and and then I think then then that they can look in the handbook and and there he is >> that's kind of what page Page 26 already says. >> Mhm. >> Okay. But it already it does, but can we just put the whole idea and the thought together in one spot? Like >> that's what I'm saying. >> So it literally says that. Okay. Better. >> So to mention that there's a complaint form right in the handbook. >> Well, it's in the front office that you would pick it up. >> Yeah. You know, >> the discussion on student behavior and discipline started on page 14 of the student handbook was at page 26 where the form is and and more of what we're talking about. So, just think it should be more cohesive in one spot. That's all I was >> um >> I mentioned that I think that makes sense. mentioned there was a form on page 14 right away. >> Yeah. Or yes and whatever else is on page 26. >> So what if we >> policy committee? >> What if we made a motion just to direct administration to add a note to the complaint process under student behavior and discipline in the handbook? >> So moved. >> Yeah. Yeah. Let's just do it. >> We have a motion. Is there a second? >> Okay. We have a motion to second. This is just a directive. So, it would uh um it wouldn't be an amendment or anything. So, all those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> Those opposed. >> Okay, that motion carries. That brings us back to the we're going to accept the handbook as presented and administration will go back and address this issue later. I didn't want to make this an amendment specifically because I didn't want to hold this up. We start school next week. >> All right. So, do we have any other discussions on the motion on the table which is to approve 6.4 4 through 6.7. Um, now as amended by member Tyson's amendment. Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying I. I. Those opposed. Okay, that motion carries. We are through the consent agenda, which brings us to action item 7.1, vendor list review and discussion. Superintendent Jacobson. >> Uh, well, actually, we're going to invite the director Remmber. It's even written on here. >> Uh, good evening board. Thank you for having me tonight. Uh this is our second time that uh we have through the board meeting uh done our listing of the vendor history report. Um so this year was included uh the additional two years. So last year we did 2526 uh year-to- date and then we were able to wrap that up through the audit and all of the accounts payable uh information. So uh we updated that uh with the final information for 20 um yeah 25 and then FY26 uh the list is there year to date. So again that same process will happen next year. Um of note uh as you know we have uh nearly 2,000 vendors uh that we work with um throughout the district and throughout the year. All funds are covered um through this vendor report. So I think that's really important to know um when we talk about our student activity accounts, right? So, our concession stands, you're saying, "Wow, that's some candy you're buying, right?" Uh, from Vernex, but um that is, you know, our student concessions that we're reselling and things like that. So, fun 50 um for our student activities. Um also, all of our construction is in there. So, we know that we have very large uh dollars amounts going to our construction firms. And then, um some of the biggest payments um are related to our salary and benefits. So again um those US treasuries um and the TRA PRA retirement funds um so again the both employee and employer contribution going um there is also some other benefits um with medical reimbursements that go through that. So you may see um you know some employees names that um you know have larger amounts and sometimes that's the case um in those. So, I guess the the moral of the the summary is that there's usually context behind some of the questions that you might see um when you see candy bars or a certain uh employees name or anything. And so, the best practice is to ask um you know, don't make assumptions and and just ask exactly what that's for. So, uh we encourage anyone that uh you know is taking advantage of the being out on the website to just give me a phone call uh or an email and let me know if there's any specific questions that they have. But it's great to let our community know all the great local resources that we use. So when we choose vendors, we always get the best pricing and the best quality of product. And so we have a lot of great local vendors that we're able to get that from in our business partnerships. So we're really excited about that. But with that, um, we're going to have you, uh, I don't know if it gets formally accepted, but >> well, it's under action items, but there's no formal action here. This is just here for review and discussion. And I I know I'd like to thank you and your department for pulling this together. Um, we get this information with board bills every single meeting, but sometimes pulling together the aggregate is extremely helpful >> um, in just understanding context because it's easy to miss context uh, when you see it 26 times a year. Um, how does that roll up? And >> um, like you stated, it it really uh, it really helps facilitate discussions and questions. >> Good. >> And I appreciate it. >> Okay. Well, I would I would suggest that some vendors that would like to be vendors might see the list and say, "Hey, >> why don't we >> opportunity to join?" >> Member Parker. >> So, I just had a qu is this is this report like easily created or is this take time for your staff? >> Um there it's minimal time for Okay. Yes. >> And is this helpful for the audit? Is this something that the auditors actually use? Uh the auditors we do as part of the audit um every year always in the audit you can read in the management report our top 10 vendors. Um so that's something that we do on an annual basis. Um but yeah beyond that no we don't we don't go any further down than that on a normal audit procedure. >> Okay. Well, I'm just I mean I'm just saying it isn't it's a nice report to have, but I just didn't know if it took a lot of time and if it's used in more ways that helps your staff or you or >> No, I think just making sure that context matters and we don't, you know, watch the community and make sure that everybody understands the, you know, the why and what we're using the items for is really important >> and again it's part of all funds. >> No, debt service. >> I mean, it's it's open for everybody. Do you get any do you get any questions from community members on any would would if this gets uploaded to the >> to the website would it would us >> yeah last year so I'm going to use last year's better example because it did just get uploaded recently so there might be more questions coming in the next couple days but um yeah I I did not I did not based on last year's so >> okay I was just curious because I mean it is a nice consens >> I just know staff takes time and if it's something that's it's good Yeah, >> it's not something that we ran before the process. Um, but again, you know, if if it's helpful, then we want to make sure that um, you know, the community knows. We we are diligent in our approvals. So, as part of the audit, you're aware that um, we have our segregation of duties and our controls, internal controls, um, that we go through um, in June every year. And so, they're going to double check, you know, are things approved in an appropriate manner? You know, our two directors looking at all the purchase orders and all of that um, and line items. And so yeah, we we don't have anything. I I approve all POS and so I'm looking at every line item and calling with any questions. Mr. Caldwell got an email last week. So um they can go ahead and you know it is uh um you know we feel confident in what we purchase, how we purchase it, and all those internal controls. So a vendor list like this is not a problem at all. >> Well, thank you so much for the report. >> Yeah, member Tyson. So, um, I checked with four districts and none of them do a vendor review like we're doing at the board table. Do you know of any that do? >> Uh, I do not. So, I I did check in with several of my counterparts. I do not. Um, so that >> would this be something that could be done in finance? >> If there was something to review and if they saw something that the board needed to take action on, they could bring it. >> Would that work as well? Yeah, I think it um again depends on the you know which audience what we're looking for and and making sure that that everyone has the full picture of of what the you know what the vendors used for I guess >> right and last year this was put on to do and I had never done it because I look at the board bill run every twice a month >> and I've been on finance where things are discussed so wouldn't it be better just to have it in finance and review it in finance than to have it at the board meeting. I mean, we offended some of our vendors last year and they came forward when we did it. >> So, I talked to the member chair and he said we're not going to go down that path this year. So, I'm a little more comfortable with it, >> but um what are your thoughts on that? >> Yeah, so I would say that it's definitely um up to the board what they would prefer to do. So, the finance committee is a board committee and so Yep. up up to the what the directive is to um where you want the information out there. Um and so that would be um as I said, we're able to produce the report and that's your prerogative of what you would like to do with the information. >> And the other thing I wanted to address too is that, you know, we're on the doorstep of the school year, right? You have a full plate. You're in charge of food service. You're in charge of busing. You have a lot on your plate. This I wish was not scheduled tonight and keeping you here, keeping your focus off what's really important in the next week and the upcoming start of the school year. So I if this is going to be a yearly review, I would I was never in agreement with that. I suggested last year that it was something that finance could look at and if they saw something they could bring it to the board. So, I hope it gets moved to a different date so you're not here and having so much on your plate for this time of year where when you you have a lot to focus on. >> Thank you. I I was able to route students while I was listening to Gail your conversation. So, we are good. Um but the um key to that is um you know we can look to move it maybe a little bit later to not have the year to date and then the next one come out a full year later. Um, that might be something that the public would appreciate because two different reports sometimes creates confusion on what the final numbers were or somebody has one report and somebody has the final report and there are two different numbers so they're trying to figure that out. Um, or again we can just, you know, move it a little bit earlier or whatever. Last year it was in July when the reports were pulled and this year it was a little bit later and I know we've moved schoolboard meetings around and stuff so we can definitely um, you know, we make it all work. So, I'm just going to reiterate that I think it's best suited for finance and doesn't need to be brought to the board table and 70 plus sheets uploaded into the board packet, but it is good aggregate information, but I just wouldn't want to offend any anybody again. And um I think you have a lot on your plate this time of year. So, >> remember Okay, good. My arm is getting tired here. Okay. Um, thank you for doing it. Again, um, I'm happy to hear that it doesn't cause you and your team a lot of extra time to put this together and upload it for us. I find it very helpful myself. I would think that maybe the public and, you know, we're in a world where everybody wants data a and people are curious like what do the schools spend their money on? And this is, I think, one very easy, sure shot just like there it is. That's what the school spends their money on. I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong in in having that information out there for people. I mean, it has, you know, looking over board bills, it it's just a very dry read. And this is just so much more concise. And for me myself, I mean, having heard myself ask questions about teacher retention and constantly hearing about, you know, we we don't pay as well as the the cities, you know, south of us and and maybe we're a little ahead of the cities north of us and having concerns about recruitment, retention, and and then seeing, you know, we we what we're spending the money on to cover these positions we can't fill. and working with Director Jacobson on and you hopefully soon and you know seeing what what the number is that we're spending and how does that compute with within our district and seeing if there's anything we can come up with to fix it. But I wouldn't have that final number if I didn't ask you and then you didn't put this together because I mean I just can't go through every single board bill again and then start aggregating. >> Yep. I just appreciate the questions and that to u member Castle and I had a great conversation once about t-shirts and and we're buying staff all these t-shirts and then I say well it's the food service and the custodial uniforms we're not just like I buy this myself you know um so it's it's those kind of things that you know to your point yes it is great to have aggregate ga aggregate data and then sometimes you look at a vendor's name or you look at you know a name of somebody who we've paid and you have questions and so all I just want to say is just make sure that we're asking the question about what it's used for and how it's used before we're making assumptions about doing that. And you and I had a great conversation and I appreciated it so much because we want people to ask the questions, right? We don't want people to make assumptions about candy bars or Chick-fil-A or anything like that. And so, you know, that as board members, you hopefully have the ability to with the vendor list if somebody calls you and says, "Hey, why did you pay Chick-fil-A $20,000?" Well, we made $10,000 on that $20,000. So, and it went back into our sports teams, you know. So, that's the kind of stuff that's just really important when we do something like this. So, to say other districts don't do it, there's there is something out there that is a liability also when you put it all into one with how people can use the data and represent it. >> Yeah. I mean, I I would hope that nobody is assuming anything. I mean, whether it's somebody's intent with asking a question or You know, and that's the intent we have, right? Like the intent is let's get the question answered because we're positive in our turtle controls and what we're buying. >> There was so much for about doing this. The last time Martini, your predecessor, very often when I was new, you've got to find out you get your questions asked. >> Yeah. And that's been my experience with this report. I've had people reach out when they see something on board bills and they think it's anomalous. And then when we rolled it up into a single vendor list, it was easier to address that. >> And uh >> I've done a lot of digging through you. So I mean all of this data is out there, but it's data >> where when you when you roll it up into this type of report now, it's information and you can act on information. You can ask questions on information. It's really difficult to do that with the raw data sometimes. So I I just appreciate it. I would love to hear if what the better time frame in the year to do this is. I >> I thought summer kind of made sense because it was kind of the end of a fiscal year end. >> Yeah, >> you should tell us when is a good time for you to run the report. >> If if there's a better time where the report can be cleaner >> and as that's the when we close the books in November, it has to be done by Thanksgiving is pretty much the time frame on an annual basis. Although Thanksgiving moves, >> and my memory was off. I thought we did it in August last year. So that's why I scheduled it for August this year, but >> I'm more than happy to to shift it to December >> if that's a better time period where the data is the two. >> Yeah. Yeah. We don't I don't know that we need two. >> Yeah. >> Um and and and I think when you have um the the partials where it's the uh how did we label that on the agenda? Where >> year to date >> where Yeah. what's the year to date? That can cause some confusion because >> right >> the just the way our budgeting works is we spend a lot here at this time of year. We spend a lot there at that time of year. So it's the year to date can be a little less useful. >> But yeah, we certainly want to work with you. >> We're we're not missing much, you know, like it is summer still, so we're just closing closing stuff and paying final bills. The the big thing is construction. So again, you see some of our top 20 vendors, at least three of them were construction. Um, so again, that's happening a lot in June. That's going to be your big kickoff where you're getting those $750,000 bills from somebody um in a construction site. So that'll be, you know, where it can it can sway um quite a bit from the time frame in August to the close of, you know, getting all those and everything. So uh but yeah, December and again we can work through that. um always happy to give any data at any time and um but December obviously would create a time frame that we wouldn't have to run two reports and correct you know kind of get that final version the next year. >> Well I appreciate that because December is typically a little bit slower for us and then for room too so that could be beneficial. >> Yeah. >> Um >> but yeah tremendous value if is is there any other discussion? And there's no action on this item. That's >> I just want to point out that writing the database query takes time. >> Pushing a button to actually have the data. >> It's like that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We do have to go through the data. So there are some data privacy concerns and and there is some that items that are admitted omitted because of that problem. So we do have to go line by line and make sure that we have um excluded certain things and >> there should be something in the database that you can just automatically filter that out. >> Yeah. So it does depend because some people are paid from multiple different codes. So you don't want to exclude all of them. You want to exclude part of them. >> I've written many database queries and >> yes well we're using Cognos. >> Maybe you're better at Cognos than I am. >> I used SQL query. So >> well that's the data how we get pulled out is Cognos. Perfect. Staying so late tonight for us. >> All right. And finally, it brings us to 7.2. Um, Director Loren, welcome back. >> She also had to stay long night for you. >> So, we did. >> Good evening, board members, Superintendent Jacobson. Um, last fall you approved a course for our secondary called AP Business and Personal Finance. um we approved that course or you approved that course as a half credit uh one semester course. Since that time our staff has been busy planning, preparing, gathering more information from AP College Board. Um the course description is included in the agenda. Uh it's also become clear as they've done that planning that it's probably better suited or actually almost necessary that it becomes a full credit course at a full year. Um the content hasn't changed at all. Just the timing and the reality of mapping out and planning. I it's just become clear that a semester or a half credit course wouldn't be sufficient time for students to get what they need to get out of the course. >> Um as a reminder, we do have a statute requirement to teach personal finance. Uh this year's juniors are the first cohort or class that will need to graduate under the new requirement. Um the course that you approved is on the books ready to run next week. >> Um with very little scheduling impact um and with your approval here tonight, we would be able to shift that to a full year experience for the students who are already enrolled. Um and that would be would be our recommendation. >> Move to approve 7.2. >> Second. Second. >> All right. We have a motion and a second. Is there any questions for directors while she's here? >> Well, I just want to say when I was looking through it, I thought well like for these kids like they need to really this is super important information learning to do I think is great that that this is what you're doing with it or asking to do with it is is increase it to the full year. I just think that helps so much with such important information to give it over a slower time, you know, however way you want to phrase it, but I thought it was great. >> More comprehensive. >> Yeah. You know, so yeah, I'm glad. I concur. >> Yeah, I think it's great. >> Any additional discussion? >> All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. Those opposed? Motion carries. >> Thank you. >> We should have done that. I see no new business on the agenda. Therefore, I would entertain a motion to adjurnn. So moved. Second. >> Motion and a second to adjurnn. Any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying I. I. Those opposed.