here we go just waiting for that green light folks well good morning everybody um following on director benot um I say welcome to the Housing and Redevelopment Authority meeting for May 16th 2024 it is 7:31 and um there is uh sometimes an opportunity to participate twice in uh an HRA meeting or a city council meeting uh when we have a public hearing there's no public hearing matter this morning in the HRA so there'll be a chance for Community comment uh with respect to anything that's on your mind that doesn't uh that isn't already on the agenda this morning or scheduled for a future public hearing before the HRA otherwise we're welcome welcoming you to give us your thoughts and your concerns and uh you'll have three minutes to do that and you'll get a yellow warning late when you got about 30 seconds to wrap up your comments so just a reminder it can't be on the agenda this morning or scheduled for a future public hearing to be able to make those public comments uh also people are listening online uh and we've been doing this all the way through covid and postco there's your Callin uh information in front of you on the screen and uh is this will come up fast right after the approval of the meeting agenda for Community comment so you should be jotting down those numbers at this point in time we'll get them back on the screen when we get to that portion of the meeting as well um having provided that information we'll call the meeting to order and I'll ask our uh administrative support specialist Lo Olsson to call the rooll commissioner Risser here commissioner Jackson here commissioner Pierce here commissioner U here hland here next is the Pledge of Allegiance Al the United States of America and for which it stands one nation under God indivisible and next we have the uh meeting agenda uh to approve is there anyone on the H wishes to modify the meeting agenda any form or fashion is there a motion to approve the meeting agenda is published so moved second commissioner Jackson moves commissioner Pier second approval of the meeting agenda is published any further discussion all those in favor of adopting the meeting agenda is published say I I I oppos carried uh now we are at Community comment and um is there any anyone in the audience that wishes to come forward and address the h and a matter of concern to them that's not on the agenda this morning or scheduled for a future future public hearing anybody on line I do not have anyone on the line at this time but because there is a short delay in the broadcast I would recommend we wait one minute uh before moving on my clock shows it at 733 so I will come back to you at 7:34 or when when we have a caller whichever is first thank you e e it is now 7:34 and I still don't have a caller so I think it's safe for you to move forward with the agenda all right thank you uh our practice is uh when we've had a h meeting or a city council meeting that um uh we answer those concerns of residents in a relatively short period of Time online and then we follow that up with our either city manager or executive director's uh response to those committee comments and we'll do that this morning with respect to the prior meeting n to report today nothing to report all right very good uh now we'll move on to the consent agenda there's a couple items on the consent agenda is there anyone on the H wishes to remove an item from the consent agenda all right hearing nothing is there a motion to adopt the items on the consent agenda in a single motion so moved second Jackson moves commissioner Pierce second the adoption of the items on the consent agenda uh any further discussion all those in favor of adoption of the items on the consent agenda and a single motion say I I I opposed carried those items on the sent agenda are adopted and approved and then we are going to move to the heart of the meeting this morning and that is the reports and recommendations portion of the agenda we've got some things to cover there and then we've got some updates for the HRA as well on a few matters that uh have been worked on either legislatively or locally and um so let's start with um our um economic development manager uh Bill neindorf who's been really quite busy with a lot of different things lately and uh we got some matters in front of us this morning to discuss that are kind of at the heart of a couple of different things that we've tried to work on in terms of small business support so uh manager nondorf welcome and look forward to your presentation yes good morning thank you um I'm here this morning with a few few items um the first few are Grant agreements for a new small business to be located up at in the 44th in France uh neighborhood um this these grants would be funded through our spark program uh and it's been a while since we funded a a project with spark and so I wanted to provide a a brief update on how that project work or how that program works and I'll also be happy to get into where the funds came from and and how they can be spent so I'll provide the background first and then I'll uh then we'll proceed with the actual Grant agreements uh the the uh uh granes are both available uh here today with us to answer any questions uh when we get to that phase the spark program was created back in uh 2021 and 2022 and that was uh based on state legislation that was passed um during the the co era uh and it was special legislation uh approved Statewide to support uh business growth business investment and job creation in IND we we had $9.6 million available to to you to pull together to create the spark fund those monies came from existing tax increment financing districts and those are that had already been uh levied already been collected and had already been sitting in a fund within the city um the largest pool of funds came from the Southdale uh 2 District um Southdale Galleria all the commercial properties that surround it uh about $8.6 million came from that fund um uh the Pentagon Park uh fund down on 77th Street contributed just under $700,000 into that pool and then fin we had an older set of districts um that we collectively called 70th and Cahill that had just under $350,000 available um and that 70th in kahill uh District was there's a long history there but it actually uh the dollars started off from the Wooddale Valley View neighborhood from the 44th in France neighborhood and the 70th in Cahill neighborhood and over time um when those uh Tiff districts were decertified just for Simplicity sake and for book for bookkeeping we've just referred to them as 70th and kale um but back in the day they did come from three different different neighborhoods in AA so those are the dollars that we have Ava available we have committed some of it already to the Adina theater uh to that new Finch project to provide access to the to the Fred Richards Park a few other projects that we've uh provided uh funding from the spark program uh on the slide it shows the various ways that that spark can be used the legislation was quite broad um but there's two fun fals um invest in Brick and mor to Construction in your community and create jobs in the process um so we can provide grants loans forgivable loans Equity Investments there's quite an array of different tools that we could use for Simplicity sake and to actually get these dollars out in the community we've we've grouped them into three categories um uh what we're rolling out today is a is the most simple program uh that I'm calling the Streamline Grant program these are grants up to $24,000 that would assist in building uh improvements uh to the Shell of the building not necessarily interior tenant spaces but the doors the windows the roof the parking the things that will always be in a Dina um the program is is set up to be as the name implies simple and streamlined um small businesses um don't need to be bogged down in piles and piles of paperwork for for a simple project uh the second category is forgivable loans those would be larger loans um uh in the $150,000 range um and and and the these these numbers are actually flexible I'll get into that in the next slide and then the larger program is the spark investment fund uh or the spark investment program and those would be um loans forgivable forgivable loans grants Etc that are much larger in size for more challenging projects I'm not going to read through all these lines so don't so don't worry about that but um for the streamlined grant program these are the basic criteria that we're looking at and uh I shaped this set of criteria um to be simple to the small business so the reason we selected $224,000 as the cap is that um uh based on State on on state subsidy laws any subsidy less than $25,000 is not considered a subsidy and you um ENT are exempt from years of reporting um for a small business we don't need years of reporting we need ability to open the doors and get running so that's why we selected the $24,000 it's applicable to Commercial and and Industrial businesses really focusing on reoccupying vacant space um uh when you reoccupy that space you're creating jobs you're adding to the community you're adding to the economy and that's what we're really aiming at um uh the road out of the program is intended to be prompt so um in the grant agreements that are in the packet you'll notice that work has to begin very promptly and be completed within a year um of course we still want to be transparent and responsible with the dollars so the uh the the business is required to contract for the work comply with permits codes all those types of things complete the work pay the contractor make sure people get paid then they'll show us an invoice of what they've done and we'll reimburse them at that point so we want to make sure that that the grantee follows through on what they said um uh and then uh even in the worst case scenario if that business would go out of business those brick and mortar Investments are still there for the next person that comes in the door so we feel that that we're well protected there uh in the overall uh scheme of the spark program I've allocated about $300,000 for this program the intention is that we would hope to serve businesses throughout the community um as they um run into hurdles um and that's one other thing to make sure that I that I touch on is hurdles we're not just handing out free money right so in this particular case um I met with the owner and the Landlord on a handful of occasions early in the project in the process where they thought they were running they thought they'd have their doors open already and then they ran into hurdles and challenges and more costs unexpected changes that uh were not nowhere on the radar screen that threaten to kill the project um uh there has to be a demonstrated need that without these monies the project cannot move forward and that's you know fundamental to any of our programs and then a quick overview of the forgivable Loan program this gets a little bit more complicated so we're we're looking um uh at investments from the spark program in the six figures um I've p penel in 100 149,000 um once you hit 150,000 that triggers another set of State mandated criteria um uh sometimes it's sometimes you need to do that so far we're we're trying to avoid getting bogged out in a lot of red tape again we still want to be transparent responsible but that's why I selected the 149,000 as the as the as the target um this program would be larger in in nature so it would cover shell improvements doors windows roofs Etc as well as interior improvements it cannot cover things like equipment Staffing um decorations tables chairs computers those types of things it has to be physical construction since this dollar amount is greater um we've structured it as a forgivable loan where we would provide provide the funding after the work is completed and paid for but the business would have to uh basically issue a guarantee that they will remain in business and they will keep doing what they're doing uh if they default the the forgivable loan is no longer forgiven it's payable back to us then and then the last program uh is the largest one uh this is our spark investment program this is really intended for for larger and more challenging projects um uh we would use the funds uh for any eligible purpose um it would uh most likely uh be deemed to be a business subsidy we'd have to follow through all with all the reporting um job creation numbers annual check-ins annual reports those types of things but the basic fun fundamentals are the same we want to use these dollars to attract uh and encourage uh new businesses to either invest in Adina or existing Adina businesses to expand um You Might Recall about a year ago we we um were negotiating with a hotel that was running into funding issues and this was the program that we had to use at that point um ultimately that project ran into a number of different hurdles that our money could not uh overcome um uh but as we move forward with any of these programs the intention is that uh staff would work with the applicants to better understand the projects and the needs um we'd make sure that they're eligible uh to receive some of these monies and then we'd work with our attorney to get Grant agreements or or loan agreements prepared and we'd always bring those agreements to you um uh so we uh for in terms of the streamlined grant program we have a pretty simple template um I forgot the page count but it's like a dozen pages in Legally that means it's very brief um some of these are larger Grant agreements I mean there there'll be more detailed more commitments and those will be custom Grant custom written for the project but for the Streamline programs the two Grant agreements we'll look at today you notice are virtually exactly the same except except for the name of the applicant and the dollar amount but in the future we'll certainly bring bring those agreement uh uh to you for review consideration uh uh you are of course welcome to approve them or reject them that's to always in your court um but after that agreement is approved then it's up to the applicant to get the work contracted to get it built to meet all the requirements to pay their subs um and then submit a dispersement request to us along with documentation that they did everything they said they were going to do and then at that point staff can go and and work with them and issue the payment um we would have a check-in with you at the end of the program um where you would issue a certificate of completion so that's something we would don't intend to bring it to the full board I think the the chair and secretary can sign off on that especially on these smaller grants um but then we would issue the payment and we'd of course do check in uh for some of those larger programs so that's the process that we have in mind um uh that's a process we've worked through so far with the three three programs we've already funded and before I jump to the specifics of this morning I wonder if there's any questions on the on the overall intent here or or the programs thanks for that uh questions from Commissioners I know one thing I always wonder about is um this was as I recall from the legislature use it or lose it by a date certain and we've got uh what was that was it December 31st so 2025 that's correct we have to commit the funds to specific projects by TW by the end of December 2025 uh any funds that we do not commit uh we don't necessarily have to have the dollars paid as we've learned but they we have to be under contract and they need to be moving uh if we don't commit those funds we return them back to henan County um and then they're dispersed through through the normal process all right okay rer L just to be clear the normal process would mean that those funds would go back to Edina schools or Richfield schools The Watershed districts um as well as the city of Edina uh similar the normal process uh when since these were Tiff dollars initially they're still considered Tiff dollar until they're spent um but if we turn them back to the county how it typically works is that um the dollar amount is split into thirds a third is retained by the county goes into their General F to do what they want to do with it a third is returned to the city of Adina to go into our general fund and then a third is distributed to the school districts either Richfield or Adina wherever the dollars originated from uh there's no dollars given a return to the water shed or the Mosquito Abatement District or the park board or any of those smaller taxing entities um that's just how state law is set up um but it would go to the schools the county and the city one thing we learned when we initiated this this effort a few years ago was um uh while the dollars are paid out to the schools that's a special funding situation that we learned quite a bit about a few years ago we thought it might be a nice um Nest EG for all these taxing agencies what we found with the schools is that any dollars returned to the schools in one year are then taken away from the schools the next year in their state funding and so um there's not that windfall that any taxing agency would have expected um so that was a a disappointment when we learned that that's how it worked but that's how it works um what happens to the money that that goes back to the city coffers are is there any downfall like what happens to the schools um no no the that state law only applies to schools so the the third of the dollars that would would be returned to the city and the county would go to those respective General funds and the elected officials could decide what to do with those dollars there's no restrictions thank you Jackson yes thank you Mr chair so um two questions one is the reimbursement in these agreements uh is we are reimbursing the business for the cost that they've already incurred right so I I think I misread this when I was reading through it in preparation but that's how that works correct that's correct yes it would definitely be a reimbursement we just want to be trans parent so I've seen I've seen and implemented other programs where the C where the dollars are paid out early that is really being business friendly cuz small businesses I mean they'll have to dig deeper or go to family or their banker and get the monies pay the interest pay the debt and then we'll reimburse them and then they can write it off or then they can clean it up but just for transparency sake and responsibility with public dollars I felt it was best that that the uh grantee essentially be on the hook for the investment we'll reimburse them once they can show us the paperwork that the work is finished and the dollars have been paid out then we'll certainly reimburse them and I when I misread it I was the grant is a grant and it's paid and it's and we're done and we're done um okay and then this is a little bit more um esoteric but do we invite spark recipients to apply for the green business recognition it's completely optional but I hope that we'll have that conversation when we certain can yes we we've been rolling it out with press releases um I'll make sure I forward that to the uh grantees this morning okay and similarly when we recognize someone as a green business we give them a little logo that they can use a sticker for their windows or something they can use on their website do we do anything like that with the spark we've got this great um logo here do we give them a sticker that they can put on their window if they so desire uh we do not I suppose we could do that so far we've only funded a couple projects so um at the Adina theater we didn't uh ask for any special recognition at the uh Adina Chamber of Commerce and their business Innovation lab um we asked to be named as a founding sponsor so when you walk into their space they'll be the bigod logos as the founding sponsor or one of the founding sponsors um and for the finch uh we didn't ask anything special CU we'll essentially own that road that that's being constructed so we could certainly create some stickers if that's if that's uh helpful but we've not done that in the past yeah I I'd just be interested in the conversation with with the grantees if they appreciate that or not so I I'd love to see it of course because I'm proud of the program all right thank you uh commissioner Pierce just uh one clarifying question on um so 2025 any of the funds that are not used you talked about how they're dispersed um what time frame does that happen within is it the first of the year middle of the year the state law is um a one-time legislation that is a bit vague so what the law says is that the funds must be committed by December 31st of 2025 so how we've been interpreting that is that we need to have executed contracts with bonafide uh recipients and the work must be started um we might pay out the work in early 26 but once we get to January 1st of 2026 we cannot any funds would have to be returned that have not been obligated are the funds due January 1st February 1st uh we just need to be responsive there's no specific deadline in the legislation so that would probably sometime in 2026 when the I would say first quarter of 26 yeah okay um and then last question um I know we haven't used the the program um extensively um so it's been fairly light what what are we doing to um ask the community or go out and see if there are other projects that we can um fund um the the one that I I will say probably every other week somebody says something to me about the d a theater like it's happened twice this week already and it's just fun to be able to say yeah that's something that we help bring uh back through this this uh program and so what are we doing to look for other great opportunities to use these dollar yeah yeah so um uh so far what we've been doing is um having conversations with projects that that come in come in our doors right like like in this particular case they had already applied for the permit and all of a sudden the scope of their work started to spiral out of control um uh uh so that was one that was already here um I've also been working with uh land owners of of vacant or underutilized Parcels to see where they are to see who their prospects are are there things we can do um we have not done just a general cold call kind of blanket approach um the information is available on our website we will update that um uh by this point in time in May of 2024 I had thought we'd be a lot further along in our obligations to the to this program the last year has been very difficult with with new projects um so my intention moving forward is to really start um getting more of the word out there through some Public public press releases working through Brokers working through owners um uh when this program was adopted back in in you know a few years ago uh the intention was to deploy the dollars rather than turning it back to the county and having a kind of you know um water down we really wanted the dollars invested here in a Dina to grow a Dina um so as we get closer to that uh end of 2025 deadline uh I'm on the path to try to find projects for every dollar that's out there um uh as far as you know General Outreach to the community I've not really reached out to residents that's not I mean this is really for business owners investors um certainly some of the folks are residents or they own multiple properties here or single property so there's usually ties like that um but we'll certainly uh promote we'll certainly uh amplify our promotion of this program because we want it we want this used thank you back to commissioner rer um I first I want to thank you for the breakdown of the financial amounts for the different districts and I understand since the 70th in K Hill was 350,000 Wooddale Valley View would have been less than that we don't have those breakdowns for that but um with Southdale being 8.6 million and then I'm looking at language from our website about spark um this spending plan identifies approximately 9, 650,000 of unallocated monies generated from three Tiff districts located within Southeast Edina relevant Redevelopment project area the Southdale Southeast Edina Redevelopment um project area and one of the things that is concerning to me is so many of the projects are outside of southeast Indina and we're really heavy in Northeast Indina and um you know just thinking about where those property tax revenues came from it would would be good to see more investment in South East Dina moving forward um so that is one concern the other concern I have is when we established Tiff districts we have public hearing and this is this is all about the lack of what I think would be logical coming from you know process that the legislator legislator set up so it's not on City staff or anything but we don't have a public hearing when it comes to allocating these unused Tiff funds and um I am hearing from some residents that they are getting very concerned about you know how this process is playing out so I I understand today we're looking at a relatively small amount um compared to you know six figures that we've done in the past but you know it it really feels like we're kind of in this uncomfortable area where we just get to be the deciders and the public is really left out so I I wanted to get that out there thank you if I could respond and clarify to a couple points so um so bear with me so southeast of Dina um to many people we when we refer to Southeast of Dina you look at that Southeastern quadrant um east of 100 South of the cross town in the HRA nomenclature there's the southeast of Redevelopment project area and that's a different Geographic boundary than we often refer to so the South Southeast Adina uh Redevelopment project area has boundaries that include um it stretches all the way west to Cahill includes the 7th and kahill District um meanders up to Grand View gets all the Grand View District goes over to Northeast Adina 50th in France 44th in France 54th in France so the language in in the official documents is not what you might look at at a traditional map um so apologies for the confusion there but that's that's um that's that um uh and the other matter is public hearing so when we first established the the spark program we held public hearings as required by law I forgot the dates it was sometime in late 2021 or early 2022 um but that was a condition that public hearings be held and we certainly did do that um the other uh piece out there is uh uh if we do get into larger grants we have to have public hearings so um uh once that business subsidy law is triggered and so far all of our projects have come in for the most part below that um but if we do do a bigger project then we're we're compelled to do public hearings and we will do public hearings um but for programs like this one the streamlined Grant at $24,000 it falls far below the threshold of any state mandate for public hearings um uh so that's a bit of background on those two items thank you I appreciate that and I I do I did not mean to say there hadn't been for the process that was required but um the other and I is the Richfield Public School District you know a property tax revenue that would have gone to Richfield and then going into the programs and kind of ending up being dedicated to projects that are outside of the richf public school district so there's there's a lot that is going on that is concerning but thank you thank you commissioner uh others yeah so I think this sort of backgrounding again periodically is good to have and you've got what amount generally left in the fund so we have we have about $4.5 million do still unobligated so it's we can do a lot of good things in this community uh in any in any District in any school district in any you know Watershed District we can certainly roll it out in all those um the tough thing is um I had approached um a variety of projects um they didn't need the money so there was a couple projects in the Southdale area they were fully financed they didn't need government assistance um frankly for years I've been trying to work with a convention grill owners to move that project along they didn't need the money and the owner didn't want the money he was going to do it his way on his time so um there's sometimes when you when you work hard to try to distribute it and the owners just don't want to get involved or they don't need it and need is the number one thing in my opinion we want to use these dollars to push projects forward that otherwise would not happen just an observation that um when the legislature created this opportunity for us years ago during a uh I think it was during covid when things were being you know things were more challenging um it really is a nice opportunity to put people to work and keep people working from a construction standpoint of you know high-paying jobs uh and so it has really some wonderful aspects to it so um and then at the end of the day what we don't use we get to use a different way and so it's uh there's a lot of winds here so thanks for that backgrounding so let's talk a little bit about what you have in mind with respect to uh o crep and I met the owner I think last winter at a at a gathering of a bunch of francophiles Belgian and French I think at uh a home in uh Minneapolis and it was kind of a opportunistic conversation and have been driving by there or going over there to get a haircut and keep waiting for things to get going but uh eager to hear from her this morning too so to let you set the background for that great yeah so the uh the the the action items this morning are on these two Grant agreements so it's the same project and that's the the reoccupancy and updating of the old Caribou Coffee space at 44th in France um so the new business is called okre uh uh I'm recommending we provide a grant to the tenant and to the landlord um the space has been vacant for some time um uh they're the owner and and landlord or landlord and tenant are already under contract they're ready to get going they've started doing the prep work they want to keep going with it um but the site is shown here on the on the uh on the screen site and location um so right at the corner of Sunnyside and and France um the scope of work um has to do with Energy Efficiency and handicap access um so part of the backstory is um initially the tenant and the owner thought it was always used as a coffee shop we want to reuse it as a coffee shop or going to just give it this new uh French twist and how hard can it be well once you start coming in for permits you find out it can get really harded really quickly so that space was last remodeled prior to the adoption of the Ada and so um while there is a small ramp to get in the front door like the sidewalk slopes up it's very steep it's too narrow the jam doesn't comply the door doesn't comply the opener doesn't comply the windows don't comply all of a sudden you're looking at about a $20,000 fix and this was the inexpensive version um they initially wanted to do something at the back and that was far more expensive to do something on the back that actually would have taken away parking and created difficulties um solve one problem create three other ones so um working with our building department um and the their architect and contractor it was decided to focus on the front door once you touch the front door now you're touching the windows the windows are enormous and expensive so um again it kind of snowballs the other thing that was um that I think started our conversation was sack and whack um reopening one Closing one coffee shop opening another one how hard can it be it also triggers sack and whack with met Council and this building was built in the 1920s um when Caribou moved in in the 1991 or whenever that was early 9s um the sac recordkeeping system wasn't great so there's no one's been been able to find whether or not they ever paid sack and in that condition met Council all's defaults into well you must not have paid it because we can't find a record um so that's another $118,000 with no no impact of the business other than it's just another hurdle so that's where we started our conversation and then it propelled to the handicap accessibility working with the landlord the rear parking lot is still a problem um the handicapped parking stall is is difficult to access it's doubtful that it complies with current codes the biggest hindrance is that the the parking lot was build so that there is about an 8 in Step from the parking lot to the back door of this tenant space and every other tenant space so the landlord is willing at this time um uh it can't fall into the tenant budget but the landlord is willing to do it go in and repave and regrade that entire parking lot so it's not just Paving for Paving sake but it's getting rid of that 8 in Step again how hard can that be it's not hard it's just expensive and there's no rent increase there's no Revenue increase but with this program we really hope to improve the access to this entire building um focusing on this tenant space because this is where the new jobs are um but both the owner and landlord are here this morning uh in case there's any questions the full Grant Agreements are in your packet you'll find that they're based on the same template so the only thing that changes is the scope of the work and the name of the grantee um but on the tenant side uh the scope is to remodel and reoccupy that vacant space to create jobs they'll be creating about six new jobs in that space uh the owner's investment is is so far 140,000 we're actually higher than that but as far as brick and mortar construction that's about where we are um the cost of these new Ada improvements are about $18,000 so um the grant would be um would cover those costs and you know if there's another surprise and it goes up a little bit we could cover that as well but not to exceed that 24,000 um and they uh as you mentioned they they start a demo they're ready to go so they're looking to open in in June and it's May 16th so they're they're itching to go on the landlord side um it's reconstruction of that rear parking lot and again the contract is clear that it doesn't say repaving it says reconstruction because we want to get rid of that step uh the cost of that work um uh is around $40,000 uh hopefully uh the contractor can get it done for that price we would pay half of that um not to exceed the 24,000 cap um the job created Created here are are not due to the parking lot itself but the parking lot is necessary for the new business um the timing of that project would is has not been set in stone yet we want to work with the tenant get them opened but that work would likely happen later this year um but it must be done within a year per the terms of the grant agreement um so I've been working on this one for a while the owner and tenant are ready to go they're here with us this morning I certainly recommend that that the board approve both of these Grant agreements and I'll turn it back to you Mr chair for for any questions thank you questions for manager newor yes commissioner yes just briefly this is where the term reimbursable Grant got into my studies I think maybe we should call it a reimbursement Grant because the grant is a grant and it's not coming back to us and I think it's confusing to call it a reimburse ible Grant so I know it's not in the document in the actual agreement but um when we talk about it I would prefer that great thank you yeah I just to Echo that that that was my question and concern too um just to make it clear because I it's really confusing when you kind of read through it um that you think it's coming back and it's not other thoughts at this point in time do you want to have the uh applicants come forward forward to and we can oh sorry commissioner U thank you uh so is the entire block of this site owned by the arbor sunyside properties like I'm thinking the entire stretch of the buildings what's owned by Arbor Sunnyside is the the corner from the buger bagels to the Gear Running and the barber shot okay so once not Fitness it's a different management right yeah there's actually four owners uh on this portion of the block each one each building is own separately okay thank you and what do you think the future of this entire block is is looking like right now I was I was kind of surprised to hear you know how old some of these buildings are um so do you see any type of evolution whether it's building up or or otherwise like in your experience what's the future of this block yeah I mean it's interesting um you know from a real estate perspective um there's probably a higher and better use for that entire block um when we did the 44th in France small area plan the neighbors and the community generally generally like that existing scale uh especially on the corners um so the buildings are not deemed technically historic but I think people like that scale um at this time I've heard of no plan to consolidate and tear them down and do something bigger um uh you know if there was something catastrophic there's a big fire that takes out one of the buildings I think it totally would change the the conversation but at this point you look at the occupancy they're all leased and some of the leases role sometimes but a lot of well-loved businesses there so um I don't foresee a lot of change um I think we'll have have the same ongoing um you know just the reoccupancy um some Tenants come out other Tenants come in um some tenants say there's too much parking others say there's not enough parking some people say the sidewalk is too narrow some people say it's fine I think we're going to have that those same conversations for these properties for quite some time I think it's a good observation a good recollection on the small area plan study because what my recollection was the same that folks in neighborhood uh wanted to keep uh not only that scale but that look that aesthetic feel and that's why the laurant looks like it fits in the neighborhood and it doesn't you know it's proportional and that's why the if you march South uh that next building to the South was done the same way to have that kind of 1920s to 1950 look to it and uh so that I I I expect too that this will continue to look the way it looks uh in the future um and I think wasn't that the first Caribou Coffee in the it was that was Caribou Coffee number one yeah so it was a sad day when they closed but they had a that was a corporate decision I think a lot of people were expecting it to have closed earlier they were really had not put much into that property their focus is really drive-throughs well maybe o crep will have a little plaque on the wall there in 30 years you might say that was the first we'll bring him forward here to folks why don't you come come up and tell us a little bit about uh the situation with you and you are the tenant nice to see you again introduce yourself and give us your address and tell us about your experience you've already you're already in this business in another part of town as I recall so go ahead yeah thank you very much everyone um my name is CLA CIS I'm originally from France I'm from Britany France which is the part of France where creps originated I take a lot of Pride to say that I'm from that region because we have a lot of cultural heritage and um it's been great to be spreading that around Minnesota I moved to the us about almost 20 years ago now um but I've been in Minnesota for 10 years this is where um my kids were born take your time and you started another business you it wasn't just enough having kids then you started in business too I know yeah they were born at Southdale Ina it's always been a really um wonderful state to be here um I created my business because I am passionate about CBS and they're delicious and I think everyone should have them um I when I found this opportunity here in Idina I thought this was going to be a perfect spot for me I love actually the look of the building it really reminds me of home it's an older building and I just really like how none of the space inside is conformed to you know even the Ang goals are all different it's very difficult to build in it but it's really fun to have that charm um so yeah sorry I lost it a little bit um yeah I'm just very excited to be part of this community and um hopefully grow um my business here in Idina hire wonderful people here in Idina um my kids go to normadale right down the block so it's just wonderful to bring what I'm passionate about to the community so and you got and you've had some surprises over there when you went to get a building permit it sounds like and had some unexpected antic uh unanticipated CA yeah yeah well I think part of it is because you know kibou was there for so long um everything has changed since then um so we had to just do a lot of a lot more work than we thought we thought we could do a little cosmetic work and and open right away which was really what I wanted to do um but after meeting with the health inspector and the building inspector we realized that we had a lot more work to do than we thought uh and so our expenses just kept growing um but the city OFA has been really great to work with um bill has spent a lot of time with us explaining how this whole thing works and we are a new you know I'm a new business owner here especially with the break and mortar location that's not what I've done in the past so it's a little intimidating um but it's been really wonderful to work with everybody here in Idina and getting a lot of help from everyone so um yes we had some bumps on the road but I have no doubt that we're going to get over the bumps open the location and and really bring back to the community so I'm excited about that part I'm excited to meet our guests and um meet them greet them by the names and offer them what they want to get when they come see us and you have another business another location as I recall so uh it's a partnership with the Minneapolis CER company um I opened my business in 2018 and I started on Farmers Market first um my kids were really young back then so that was an easy thing for me to do I also was new to this community and business owner um and then in 2020 I met with um the three Partners at Minneapolis Cider Company and they make wonderful cider you should go and try it um but originally and traditionally in France you pair creps with cider um so we met I kind of told them the backstory of this and they thought well we don't have food but we have cider you have the crabs that go with the cider why don't we partner together um so in 2020 we did this partnership and now we have um creps inside Minneapolis CER company 7 days a week uh we have a team of 14 crep Masters that I have trained and who make delicious crabs there um so that's been a really great opportunity for me to learn more about really running that food business in a break and mortar without having the investment or rent even but it's been really um you know showed me that uh that's what I want to do within my own space uh my vision for the place here in Idina is to have that small very cozy welcoming French Bistro vibe that um just gives you that French Vibe when you walk into it and um you know if you can't travel to France once a year then you just walk in and have that feel so this is exactly what I want to to create here with this location many many people have traveled abroad and had CP in different locations and and Britney has a is a home of crep I think you said and it's it's not it's not just a flower it's a it's a buckwheat as I recall too is what you told me yeah so our Savory our Savory crabs are made with buckwheat um flour which is a gluten friendly option as well um this is how is traditionally made so I'm not trying to actually um make it gluten-free necessarily is just the tradition is that all of her Savory CPS I made with buckweat flour and water it's very allergen friendly and then our sweet creps are not Alliant friendly they're made with wheat eggs um butter and milk but we make two they're two very different products our Savory CBS that's what I take the most pride in because it's so unique um and a lot of people are interested in learning more about it when I started my business I was told don't even bother with the buckwheat you should just sck with wheat it's going to be appealing to the American public and I thought oh my gosh we can't do this it's too delicious to not make it um here and I soon as I started um people loved it and I did the um Edina spers Market fell into the Art Festival Edina Art Fair and I had so much um great feedback from um people that I I knew that was the right thing to do so yeah we have two very different CPS and um and it's what's wonderful too is that because of the buckwheat we have that grin friendly option so we are uh appealing to a brighter um you know customer base and clientele questions for M coras all right very good thanks for being with us this morning how about the owner thank you building owner here too morning good morning my name is Steve Young with Arbor commercial group um I'm live about a half mile away 3844 York Avenue South uh I've owned the building for about 13 years now so um we're very excited about uh um Claire coming in she's uh uh as you can quite committed to delivering the a very um unique product and uh I think we'll be nice for the city of Bine to have her in business and then your work with with the parking lot do you want to talk a little bit about that sure um many of you know the building and um you know if you probably don't notice um but uh there is a a step um required fired to the backs of almost all the businesses and um you know it's it's a challenge for those who um are need um or challenge people with steps so um when uh of course the building's whole grandfathered in uh but when Bill told me about this unique opportunity to fix the problem uh for all the businesses then I started looking into it and figured out a way to make it work so would it would would the work in the parking lot the Reconstruction would take care of the step issue with from Dicks Barbers and The Running Store the all the way down all the way down and um yeah it would uh and then we've the grading is such that it would work out as well so um yeah we're fortunate to run into uh Bill and this unique program you have any questions for Mr Young good thanks for being with us this morning thank you anyone else you want us to visit with regarding these matters okay you've got a couple of requests for us here um you want us approve the grant agreement with both o and uh Arbor sunyside properties is that correct correct all right um do you want to take them one at a time or together or how do you want to handle it uh all right so with respect to the potential Grant agreement with o LLC is there a motion to approve that Grant agreement so second commissioner uh Jackson moves commissioner U seconds the approval of the grant agreement with um okre loc um discussion reer okay I um conflicted on this you know I I think um you know on the one hand this is a wonderful project but what I'm concerned about is the way that we have been using Tiff the way we have been using unallocated monies and you know not thinking about the impact to the source where the Tiff Revenue came from and so I just want to get that out there I um I know that I've well and again I've heard from people you who are saying these are our property taxes this is you know why is this happening and there's frustration out there although I know there's also a lot of people who are really excited and enthusiastic about this as well so I just want to get that out there I'm not exactly um sure if I'm going to abstain or go negative thank you thank you for that uh I don't know manager n if you want to address that con that concern of commissioner Richard at all oh this opportunity arose and we've talked about that some this morning but um if you have any additional comments uh I don't have much to add I mean the uh about 15 years ago ad made this as a community made the decision to expand the boundaries of that Southeast Adina Redevelopment project area to not just be Centennial Lakes but to actually be the commercial districts so that's a long-standing precedent um the reason I feel good about recommending these projects is and part of the reason I've been working with these folks for so long is um these dollars originated on this block I mean the the this dates back 30 years but some of these tax dollars that we pulled into the spark fund started at 44th in France um they started at Wooddale they started at 70th in kahill Pentagon and and that the whole Southdale area so um I think we've got a long-standing precedence um uh uh and I think it flows nicely um uh but certainly some people may disagree and I I can't change people's opinions but I I feel solid that we're uh following our president following state law and creating some great new business opportunities Comm p uh thanks Mr chair um just personally I feel um the nature of the current conversation kind of implies that we're doing something that perhaps we shouldn't be doing as a city so that makes me feel uncomfortable I don't I don't think we are doing something that we shouldn't be doing in the way that we use these dollars um but I don't like the implication of that and um I think sometimes that implication comes from the community when there's a lack of understanding of how the district was created what the intent was of the funds how the program works so I just think there's probably something we can do um if for no other reason just to help the the Commissioners uh be able to articulate and answer questions as they come up I don't I don't know that we need to do some huge communication on it but that would be helpful and one of the things that I think um would help with that um so that we're sure that we're getting to all the points is to have member Risser um and I'm not saying we should do this now um give a little bit more detail on some of the specifics of what she has heard from those residents so that we can specifically um educate the Commissioners on um on those concerns and what we have done so I don't we should shouldn't do that today but I would feel more comfortable um if we we spend some time kind of framing that um so that we're all on the same page commissioner Jackson yes thank you Mr chair so I just want to say one of the values of Edina is our small businesses especially retail businesses the quality of retailers that we have here the experiences that people can have when they come here to spend their money whether it's for shopping or for dining I am super excited about this I love Crips I love them from Britany um and this is why our retail districts are so vibrant we talk a lot about wanting to have these experiences with small local owners and having opportunities to um to enjoy ourselves and for them to thrive and so this I think is just such a wonderful program um to express that value that I hear a lot from people in our community so thank you m sure thank you I am very excited for this um love the passion that you bring love the story that you have and also love how I I do really think that it ties into this existing kind of community and structure there um so I'm I'm excited that we have this opportunity as a city to invest into these small businesses I I kind of echo um commissioner Pierce's I think line of questioning of like what can we do to encourage more of this um especially knowing that we have that limited time on the program um but I know that you're doing U what you can and I know that we as a city um are looking for more of those opportunities so just want to see continued investment and really excited for this project thank you m rno um just a reminder I think is what reinforc what you said and that is this is a creature of the legisl that decided that during a difficult economic time in our state we we could do some things with unallocated Tiff funds uh that would allow us to uh provide jobs for construction workers provide jobs for people that are going into a new business that's been rehabilitated uh and where those funds might have otherwise been used for the purpose intended in that Tiff District uh so they would never have gone back to the county uh we got a chance to consolidate some of those funds in our community to be used in a different way uh to build strength and economic vitality and vibrancy in our community through its small businesses as my colleagues have mentioned so um I think this is a you wonderful opportunity afforded To Us by the legislature and um what we what we don't use I mean you you've been doing a very thorough job of deciding what to bring to us to talk to us about in terms of Grants or or loans or forgivable loans and I I think you've done really uh terrific work so far and what we don't use by December 31 2025 it'll be coming back to us in part to the county in part and it sounds like with the school district they're going to get it but going to be taken away so it's they're kind of uh net they're net neutral on this thing really in terms of Revenue so um so I favor it as well and um I thought commissioner AG said it well you and that's why I wanted to have the owner come up having visited with this winter you could just see the passion for the work that she does and I think having that business any D is going to be a wonderful thing so um we've got a motion and a second to approve the grant agreement for o um all those in favor of approving the grant agreement with okre LC say I I I opposed uh motion carries the grant agreement with okre loc is approved uh and then the next one uh that we've heard about is the Sunnyside Properties LLC which allows us to assist in creating more accessibility into those buildings for people with disabilities so let's uh let's see if there's someone who cares to make a motion to approve the grant agreement with Arbor Sunnyside Properties LLC so moved second Ragu moves member Pier second the uh approval of the grant agreement with Arbor sunyside properties loc any discussion on this matter right all those in favor of the approval of the grand agreement with ar sunyside properties L say I I I opposed uh motion is approved 4 to one um Grant agreement with Arbor Sunnyside Properties LLC is approved thank you for both being here this morning um and now we're going to move on to the next matter that uh manager narf has and that involves 5146 Eden Avenue yes thank you just one as you leave here so what kind of a schedule are we on for um opening the old depending on quickly we can get all right very good still on that schedule everything else okay all right thank you all right sorry for the interruption Mr M go ahead no worries um uh so our next item is not for action but for discuss question I wanted to provide an update to you on um on our efforts and our strategy to secure a new housing developer at the old public work site uh 5146 Eden um we are uh preparing a full RFP document request for proposal we're aiming to get that out um prior to Memorial Day so in about a week and a half um uh but before I actually issue it and release it I just wanted to have the discussion so that we're all generally aiming at this at the same point um and have a shared understanding um that being said the document is not finished it hasn't been released and it's still subject to change so um I I welcome your comments suggestions um and and other input uh so I'll walk through this I'll try to do it quickly in the interest of time um uh we all know the site um so the purpose of a request for proposal um uh uh what we're aiming to do is issue the RFP to secure a housing developer or perhaps a team of housing de developers to work collaboratively with so um rfps can be written a number of different ways sometime you say we want exactly this give us your best price and your best schedule I don't think we're there yet we we've had conversations um about generally what we're looking for a combination of of town homes really focusing on for sale opportunities we could live with some multif family we're not interested in having just a lot of traditional uh apartments that we've seen because there's there's great supply of that throughout the the the city in the metro area but we are looking for something unique um in order to achieve our vision we're going to have to find a partner first and then work through what's the scale what's the mass what's the price point what's the land worth based on that so I just wanted to to be clear that when we select a developer we'll have an estimate of the of the land value but that will still be negotiated throughout the you know throughout the final zoning process um we'll issue the RFP to make sure that we're open and transparent about what we're doing who we're looking for and what we want to achieve uh of course when it comes to land value we still want to maximize our our value for our for our community um when it comes to working through the site plan process we'll use the the city's traditional zoning review process that we use for any project uh nothing more nothing less but what our our typical process would be uh and then again to be clear that the purchase price would be negotiated as we go through that um we've had success using that model in the past um again when you select the developer you can you can tell some folks that you're going to work well with others you're not going to work well with so we we want to uh invite and talk with a number of different options the development program that we've discussed in the last uh several months uh really has four distinct elements that are all woven together uh so fundamentally with a public Green Space uh currently it's drawn it's shown on the Northern edge of the site uh there would be a full service restaurant with indoor and outdoor dining there'd be a minimal amount of shared parking on the property um some private Park parking for the um for the residential but shared parking for the restaurant and then taking advantage of that parking garage that exists already just across the tracks the housing um as we discussed a few months ago is really prioritizing owner occupied units um uh and then configured in in the arrangement that I mentioned earlier each of those four elements would all be woven together in a walkable community so with comfortable setbacks comfortable public real Home Spaces landscape boulevards broad sidewalks um uh with thought an intention to to Bicycle access through the area as well but it's it's those four elements we want to bring to the attention of the developers uh as far as background all the typical rules apply the grand view7 guiding principles um the city's affordability and Sustainable Building policies would apply uh comp plan zoning code PUD rezonings storm water engineering all those typical things apply nothing nothing higher nothing lower all those typical requirements um for the site plan um based on what we've heard so far uh and discussed so far we we'd be looking at a lower massing lower height along the street Edge um taller height could be acceptable if it's in the center but in the past you you mentioned the the importance of having something lower scale along the street uh uh with a comfortable setback so uh the setback from Curb to the building face about 20 ft um we've seen good examples at 16 ft we've seen good examples at 22 ft it's somewhere in there um and I think we want to give the developer and their architectural team flexibility to really work with the site uh with the restaurant location we've seen it in a couple different options uh the restaurant could remain where it currently is uh we looked at one option when we hired a designer to possibly shift it down to Eden to get a lower scale uh facility along Eden um if the developer Wants to Move It from its current location they would have to work well with jester Concepts who still has the contract for the restaurant so uh Jesters understanding of the process they're willing to be collaborative they could live in either spot as long as the site works for them and for us um but I want to bring that uh to the attention of the developers and then fundamentally the grade change we've got a deal it's a thir 34t drop from Top Northern Edge to the southern Edge we need to incorporate that into the site plan um and if possible bury some parking in that um to try to take advantage uh the town home program uh we looked at a rendering before I'll share it in a minute it's in your packet but really focusing on for sale units is what I'm is what I'm going to ask for uh both myself and Stephanie hackinson have talked to a number of different developers that do lots of different things um a lot of folks that want to build rental town homes and at this point we're expecting to say no thank you to rental Town Homes but really focusing on for sale um our current massing studies show you could get a one or two dozen units there depending on how you configure them the price point is going to be the most important thing in this in this RFP so we've heard the discussion that you had in the past um what Stephanie Hawkinson and myself recommend is targeting price points of those Town Homes to meet a variety of income groups um 10% of the units would be would be priced at 80% Ami which meets the true um HUD uh definition of an affordable ownership unit 40% of the units would be what some people call ainaa Affordable um 120% of Ami and then the other half of the units would be market rate um so we're not expecting to have high high luxury combined with 120 Ami and 80% Ami someone that's going to buy a $2 million town home is going to have a whole different set of expectations than we think we want to deliver here but by by targeting these three price points we think we can convey to the developers Our intention of having a variety of unit sizes and prices uh we'd also be looking at securing long-term affordability ility of those affordable units by building building in a limited limited Equity model so for example you couldn't just flip it for a $30,000 profit the next year your your Equity would be capped over time um we've seen that used successfully in other places uh we also have seen that turn off a lot of developers because buyers just want to do what they want so I think I'm sure that'll be a point of conversation once we secure a developer and go through the site planning process for the town homes we're also looking at limited shared amenities to hold down the fees so we don't expect a pool room we don't expect a clubhouse we don't expect um lots of different amenities that just jack up the HOA fees we want a community that that's affordable uh and predictable uh we'd also be looking at a at some variation in architectural style height and massing of that project and high quality materials like brick or stone um now always bear in mind brick and stone are also the most expensive things out there for finishes so um there'll be some trade-offs there um for the affordable units if we really want affordability but want the highest quality materials we're probably going to have to offer some Ty of some type of pricing concession um no developer is going to build a unit knowing that they're going to lose a couple hundred thousand on that unit so um we'll I think we'll have a lot of conversation but at this point since the HRA owns the land we can pick and choose what's most important for us and we might be willing to go down on our price on the land if we get the product that we're looking for so the that's why I'm recommending an RFP that doesn't have a firm fixed price but we want to find that partner that we can work with and then if there's a multif family component we've spoken with uh developers that build co-ops condos and uh rentals um condo markets tough close to Impossible the senior Co-op model still might work here but I think at a lower price point than our former housing partner was looking at uh and Rental departments certainly there's still strong interest strong demand in this area um so that might be a concession we might want to consider when we see our options I do recommend that we keep that as an option the rental um we might choose to say no but I think if we say if we exclude them I think we're going to get little to no response from any developer in the Twin Cities um unit sizes very similar to the town homes um really focused on on on a more mid-priced midscale project um we updated a couple of the renderings that uh that we prepared as property owner I I mentioned this when we when we spoke a couple months ago there's a lot of flaws in this in this drawing it could not be built this way but we wanted to give the developers some kind of idea what we might have in mind so this is the combination of town homes and uh one layout of a multifam along with the restaurant in the green space Here's another layout different configuration um uh we put height here but we buried in the it buried it in the middle surrounded by lower scale Town Homes again restaurant and uh Green Space are always in there and then for illustrative purposes we created a cross-section to help and make sure the developers understand the challenges of this of this particular site um so again this rendering not the prettiest thing in the world but we want the idea is is that we're not going to build this but we want to give developers a sense of some of the challenges so that when they actually submit a proposal to us they are fully informed of the challenges the opportunities and a lot of the hurdles on the site so we'll ask each developer to to submit a formal formal application um with some general information and some specific information we do want to ask them for their for their price Target um and how they got there uh and any hurdles they see to increase or decrease that price we don't want to be completely surprised at the end but we do want to be collaborative and find a good partner the process to review this is similar similar to what we've done in the past initially um to make sure that the Adina or that the Adina H as a property owner and seller we want to make sure that we're not showing our cards to the buyers so initially these proposals are going to be reviewed in a non-public setting we're not we don't want to share with developer a what developer B proposed um until we're under contract with that developer that we like then it would then it could become public but in that initial phase we want to be we want to be private with that uh once we get start getting real and start having a real agreement and start flushing out contracts that's when we want to make sure we're trans transparent open and above board and that's when those documents become more public facing but there would be a time where they would be um not available to the general public our schedule is is moving fast we want to get this released at the end of May um give developers four to five weeks to respond then we um because they're they're waiting they're ready they're ready they're waiting for us um but then we would review the proposals uh aimed to be under contract this fall and then move forward with a new sketch plan and moving forward on the next version uh each of these things takes takes time so even starting now uh we are looking at completion in phases 2026 and 2027 so that's why we want to keep this ball moving so in a nutshell that's where we're aiming I just wanted to be um uh uh transparent with you about what we think we can really expect but again if there's things that you want differently things I should emphasize or de deemphasize I'm happy to hear that and with you with Mr chair I'll turn it back to you comfortable with this concept or question you member uh Council council member commissioner Jackson then commissioner rer yes thank you Mr chair so yeah I have a actually a lot of comments on this um go to the town home list of things um my vision for this had been affordable ownership opportunities and having 50% of them priced at market rate you know what we've seen across the street from this site um over on henerson are $ 1.2 million Town Homes $900,000 town homes that is not what I had in mind at all for this and to have 50% of them at looking at million dooll homes is way outside of what my expectations were um now and I'll defer to my um my peers here on this about the finish I don't think that they need to be super fancy um I think having an ownership opportunity on what was formerly public land is maximizing value for me um so so I I really am not looking forward to having million-dollar town homes built on this site um so that's my first qu my first point the second is in these renderings you've put together um I don't see anything looking even remotely like that getting through the Planning Commission um we talk about um mixed use and it's okay to have horizontal mixed use but having that big bulky building in the middle says this is not mixed use we are putting a barrier up so in the previous plan it had that feeling of you know Confluence was able to go from the park down across even into the housing a sense of green and continuity having those buildings block things off in the middle you don't feel that this is a campus this is not unified it's there's this big wall so even if you know you could go a little higher and open up that space I know we want to maximize the underground parking there um I think the Planning Commission would like that if we used the underground space and I think that's a big part of Jester concept's ideas for that as well um to have that that uh underground Saloon um and um or the Speak Easy I think is what they call it um but the flow on this site um in what we would be giving to um developers I think would not pass through um what the Planning Commission was expecting for this so it really feels chunky as opposed to here is this wonderful new um area that we're going to be giving our city so having that sense of campus and and uh flow between the different parts of it um is missing so and so and but with the town homes um I would much prefer to have them be affordable than to be fancy because that's something that's absolutely missing in our city and we have the opportunity here to do something about that so um let me just look at my notes here um I think that's it oh and then um Can can you run this by the housing Foundation um probably I don't know if there's time to do that but um just to share it with them and uh maybe get email comments back from them um oh and that's the other thing with the rentals um when you talked with manager hackinson um seems to me that when we get the inclusionary housing they're all the 10% at 50% of Ami um this is an opportunity for us to balance things out so can we ask for units that are you know below 50% Ami or all of them at 60% of Ami um I would defer to her for what kind of balance she'd like to see but I would like to see this is our opportunity to make a difference in the market the Market's giving us the 10% at 50% of Ami what do we want how do we balance out those numbers um and and what can we do in our RFP to do that so those are my comments thank you thanks commission rer um I agree with my colleague commissioner Jackson and um or member Jack commissioner Jackson sorry it's hard to and I do need to leave at nine o'clock today so I don't want people thinking I'm storming out I have some place I have to go um and one thing I do want to um assuming that if there's no pool or you know amenities we're going to have a reasonable HOA is not necessarily true uh there is a townhouse development in Idina that has it's just tow houses and very little green space and they are asking for 900 a month in HOA fees so just that little Caution right there um this is kind of and I'm going to apologize I feel like this is sort of a spin draw into gold request but it'd be so great if there was a way to create affordable housing that did not involve an HOA and I don't know if that's possible or not but you know since we're having these conversations you know that would just be a wonderful thing um and I keep thinking about you know could we really encourage smaller architecture on this site it seems like we keep getting to town houses that are so large and um you know this kind of plays into what commissioner Jackson just noted but you know it makes so much sense to try to scale back a little bit you know and come up with a design that doesn't require so much space and also I'm wondering you know um thinking about energy use all of that you know is so important and it's going to continue to be even more and more important so just having that there and also thinking about homes that have handicapped accessibility um to the degree that that's possible not you know that you could have everything on one level so with that I think that's all I have to say and thank you commissioner commissioner agno thank you I I for the most part like the the spread of the numbers here um I like having market rate housing as a part of this project whether it be within the town homes and or within whatever might be at a higher scale um and I I also asking for a lot here think it would be good even if we think about the town homes to have one or two depending on the total number that is even below that um so I don't know if 50% or 60% Ami like the right phrasing but you know something that we're building and then selling at cost and Really Trying to minimize that cost um because I I like creating not just 100% affordable housing and really bringing people together um and creating that type of environment where where we have all of those levels and so that's why that in particular is important to me even though I do hear you know Commission or Jackson your point as well of like we just need more affordable units um but I also don't want to just put them all in one place is kind of the balance that I'm trying to strike um and then the other thing that I really liked about what um commissioner Jackson said and so I just want to Echo that is making it feel like a campus bringing it together um uniting it so that it doesn't feel like here's one piece here's another piece and then here's this other different piece um and I I do think that there are ways to mix and mingle the affordability with the fancy um if it's looking fancy on the outside and then on the inside is where you know those the quality of the finishes are really varied um might be one way to Target that but overall I really like the idea of this plan I like the idea of going out and getting input I think it's going to be important and I'm sure you're already on top of this right as we're scoring these rfps keeping in mind what are the things that are most important to us as a city and what are those ones that we can give and take a little bit on um and so I hope that we can be a part of that process and obviously with those closed sessions it looks like we will be um but it's just it's really fun to think about us taking this next step so thank you for bringing it to this PP this point on the journey thank you uh commissioner Pierce uh thanks Mr chair uh so I just got a few comments I um I am also okay with Market um but I'm coming at it from a different perspective um I actually agree with commissioner jackon that we wouldn't want million dooll homes there right um but when I think about Market um I'm thinking median price and so if that is our median home value is 660 I I'm thinking of it that way and so I think when you described it you talked about amenities finishes to kind of manage that cost that's the way I think of it and so I think it's it's important to actually give that balanced uh comment to them um that we understand you may need to do some Market to to bring a viable product however these are the the price points the ranges that we're thinking about um and so that's one um the second um I like I want options to come to us that we can actually do and so I do think we're at a we're at a point or we're nearing a point where as a council and as a commission our paradigm is going to have to change if we want anything there at all um and so as you go through I think it is smart to do RFP um but I think we need a balance of being more prescriptive of generalities of what we want to see and some specifics like we want ownership um we need to be clear about how we Define that so that we don't get million doll home but we get something that hits the missing middle but then I also think we should um I don't know how to do this but because I think our Paradigm is going to have to shift I'd almost be I'd be happy if um developers said well all right this meets their RFP however here's an idea of something that you might want to consider that um is marketable that maybe hits I don't know 60% or some percent of the things that we're looking for but may be totally different from any other renderings that that you have and so what I'm getting at is let's be clear on the words but we don't want to I I think we don't want to have developers kind of thinking in with blinders on um in the current Paradigm of trying to get this thing to fit that has already not worked multiple times um so that we get subject matter that we can actually work with um so that would be that those are my comments thank you thank you um from a conceptual standpoint uh doing an RFP I'm okay with that I think commissioner Pierce has raised an interesting issue and that is um I'm thinking to about what we did years ago over on uh what was then 49 and A2 Street Market Street we said we want a development uh on the north side of 49 and A2 street that dealt with that ramp over there and what we got from uh Pete danovic and noan Mains was this whole idea that we didn't even have in our head was to take everything down in the middle we had even thought about that middle ramp and redo the whole thing and so I don't want to eliminate I don't want to limit the imagination of potential developers coming in here either because we may see something that is extraordinary and that I I can still remember the sense of the council when we saw what they proposed for basically 50th in France was a total overhaul so if you give them too many layouts to work off of they might feel constrained so I I I'd look and I don't remember what we did on 49 and a Half street in terms of that RFP because we had about a half a dozen responders I remember um and all of them just dealt with that one piece of property on the north side of the street it was these other guys that came along with this idea on the left field that we really Embrace so keep that in mind I will say from having this experience over the last couple years with our Council here I don't even know if we're headed in the right direction anymore because we've got two projects stalled out on France Avenue that are housing related the one across the street from our old public work site has cratered out and so I don't even know if housing works anymore which has pushed me back to thinking about some of the things we talked about several years ago including the idea of some some something that activates the street that was what memb former member ston always used to talk about let's make sure we activate that area was this idea of um that what they have is it chasa with the uh curling rinks and the Brew Pub you know so you can almost see yourself driving down uh Eden with big glass windows people inside playing doing curling or little kids even I suppose in a curling rink you could even have the mites in there doing hockey games and you know they don't need much space and then you got a brou hub so to me there's things that we could probably think about doing again as we kind of reset what to do with this property and if uh we took two you know two-thirds of it or half of it and incorporate Adjusters in a in a brew pub or a micro brewery as part of a city project on our own land um that takes us in a totally different direction so uh but maybe the maybe the smart thing to do is go with your RFP that you work so hard on keep in mind not limiting the creativity of people uh or development companies that come along let them think about the affordability mix and then let's see if we like any of it but keep in the back of our minds that we may want to go a totally different direction has been 12 years of going in totally different directions or 15 years I don't know so anyway those are my thoughts commissioner yes thank you Mr chair I thought of something else that um that actually you Mr chair talk about quite a bit and that is a building that is tall and thin with green space as opposed to a big blocky building and I know we've talked about limiting it to the top of the Jerry's office tower but if you have to have a certain number of units to make it profitable um I would be willing to give up or give on height to get more green space and that that flow so I just wanted to put that out there as well so that commissioner Jackson caused me to think about one other thing I wanted to mention in conjunction with RFP and that was I personally don't care if it's a mix of of multif family and Tow houses when I look at your layout a I like the neighborhood sort of feel as generated by the townhous and so to me I wouldn't care if it was all tow houses just a townhouse ownership project forget about the seven story buildings and the me know the multif family uh because you're going to have a really wonderful neighborhood feel out of out of town houses alone I think or even the uh cottage homes you know where you got them on zero lot lines but you you've created a neighborhood with cottage homes around common area spaces which goes to the Green Space notion um but but let the developers think about that and and we've got fle flexibility to be a good partner because we own the land right and we can sell it for a high price or a medium price or a low price depending on what we see that we like uh for example hypothetically a townhouse project that we really like that encompassed all of the property that were thinking about here a third of it uh and we had to and to make it work we had to sell it at a lower price and I think our Council would think about hard about that so anyway those are my thoughts commer U also had some follow on I do because the second you start thinking about a community Gathering location on this site again mayor I I do get really excited um I know that it's been a really long journey but I just want to say thank you for saying that and I absolutely would be excited about potentially onethird being town homes and then rekindling some of that that idea of community Gathering um and we don't need to pack the site with with just density um if we can get some of these other things that we want so keep I think you said creativity or maybe when you spoke I heard creativity but keep open for that creativity and that wiggle room in this RFP thank you so maybe their ticket to the party is some ideas that based on your RFP but to stay at the party they got to bring the creative idea to cuz I do believe our Paradigm is going to have to shift and like you've just seen it shift in the last 10 minutes yeah so if I can just interject so having to make all those changes that's super helpful uh to the process um just so we're aware if we ask them to bring the creative idea to create a community space they will be asking us to pay for and bond debt to build and operate that space is that what you're open to say that again if we ask them to give us creative ideas to build a community activity space their response would be to ask us for bonding for funding and for operating costs for that space is that what you're asking me to ask for well I don't know if commissioner eggon was thinking about it being indoors or Outdoors or both um and I was open on that but uh seems to me the price of the land is a factor that would come into play there too but I could definitely understand where if we're going to do something it was the indoor that uh we may have to think about you know the cost of that to community sure that's a hard no for me we've got two fire stations to build and we don't want to I don't want to push the debt capacity um beyond what we've already got planned and we've got Brar clubhouse that needs to be updated we have a pool that needs to be updated so absolutely not I would be against bonding and operating and I I liked when we um brought in a private partner um inest your Concepts um and I'm not willing to take on more bonding for this PR sure I I hear you and I I don't have a strong opinion that is against your opinion but I think that there are I mean as we're talking about I mean maybe a micro brew is a not the right one just because I I think that Jester Concepts was still thinking about like a a Speak Easy or something in the basement um but I do think that there are private invest like organizations who would be excited about building something so I don't think that those have to necessarily be at odds of if we're not willing to bond for it we can't get anything that's going to bring people together I don't think that that's the case and so that's where I'd like to see some of that creativity um and I you know you can sit here and you can think about I've said before with other sites like a a comedy club or something that's just like a gathering site and less of you know housing that 90% of the people are going to drive past uh unless of course they live there or they're visiting someone there so that's that's my goal and then I would just add I I don't want the question in the way that we ask it to stifle the creativity and I'm like I'm kind of in the middle and I would just say it depends on on what the community benefit is and what any particular ask might be um if I you know if I think about it right now and I give you my confidence factor I kind of feel like this site is going to sit vacant I don't I don't know if we're really going to get um ideas that we're going to be able to move forward with I'm hoping that we do um but right now I have a fairly low confidence Factor so I wouldn't want to have a stipulation that um stifles other creative ideas coming in um and then you know I balance that with I also don't want to waste a lot of time um looking at sketch plans that we know we can't we either can't fund or can't get approved um so I'm kind of in the middle there um but um those would be my comments on that that's very helpful so thank you for putting some some guard rails on there um I will incorporate more creativity and encourage additional creativity and um I will uh make sure I distribute a copy of the RFP to each of you and to the general public when it's out there so give us a maybe a couple weeks now to to do that thank you chair there some quick updates for us Mr executive director thank you your honor um Mr neindorf has two of them and I have the last one if we if we if we have time very good do we do we have time to do these today or you want us to out here yeah okay I could 15 minutes I don't know how there rest but sure well uh I'll start and um uh these will be brief so I just wanted to make to bring a couple things to your attention um of things to uh to expect to see in the future so as we talked about that spark program I use the term business subsidy um our City attorney reminds us that the city's business subsidy policy uh was written in 2011 and it made great sense in 2011 When It Was Written times have changed laws have changed and it's time to update that so we are in that process um so far the projects we've supported financially have all met exceptions to that policy so that's why we've been able to postpone this update um but do look for an update in the near future the way the state law is written um uh that policy update starts at the city council with a public hearing so usually financial matters start with this group um but uh in this particular case I'll start at the city council level with information posted to posted to our Better Together website first we'll hold the public hearing after the city council does its uh uh confirmation and review it'll then come to this to this body second so um expect to see that this summer um and at this point we don't have any intention or specific projects to to support with business subsidies but we want to keep that door open just in case yes commissioner um yes so thank you um when we when you're putting this together I know you'll do this but I have to say it anyways make sure to put in definitions of what is a business subsidy and those those different levels and and what triggers it the other thing is is if we can have a list of suggested public purposes so it's not you know uh in uh all encompassing but to give people an idea of what we're talking about and we say public purposes I think that would be very helpful as well thank you commissioner great thank you uh my second update is uh regarding uh tax increment financing so earlier this year uh we asked our state legislators to bring some legislation um for forward um to to give additional time to the 70th in France TI tip district and the 72nd in France number two tip District um uh each of those proposals are winding its way through the system so uh we've been to the to the capital to testify in a few occasions but at this point both the house and the Senate have adopted uh the city's requested language um so we expect that to be included in a bill that signed by the governor eventually um hopefully next week um when that after it becomes law then it'll come back to the city council and the H to affirm um uh there's some Provisions that also require approval of the school district in the county so I think we'll have more more discussions on that in the future but uh right now we're on the path to at least give the community an option if we want to expand those districts or not expand but extend those districts and the key reason why we asked for the special legislation was to deal with this time delay right when when we approved these projects almost 2 and a half years ago they would have been in the ground they would have been above ground framed out and looking at delivery dates and the economy has has changed that timelines so with this change in in state law um we extend that timeline for the developments to start and be finished uh and just to put this in context this year a is one of 11 different cities Statewide that is asking for changes like this it's not unusual a lot of other projects are in this boat we wish we weren't but we are but it looks like we might have um flexibility to extend so as we learn more we'll bring that to your attention and for our last update I'll turn that over to our executive director uh thank you uh Mr chair members of the Commission in 2022 the city made the excuse me the HRA made a loan of $610,000 to the Adina Chamber of Commerce uh to help fund uh a location physical improvements to a building that would be used to house not just explore ad Dina the Chamber of Commerce but also Innovation lab part of the Innovation our loan went to the chamber uh part of the chamers plan was that the Innovation lab would would would have uh produced income that would help them service the debt back to the city that hasn't uh there's been success at The Innovation lab but not uh to the fiscal extent that this this is looking like it's going to work out so the the chamber board uh has been talking about how to restructure uh to provide more opportunities more income streams for the Innovation lab from the private sector and one of the strategies is to reform The Innovation lab as a bcorp as a benefit private benefit Corporation so there's some discussion going on about that at the chamber board it looks like it's going to move forward in that regard uh although there's there's still some formal changes one of those formal changes needs to come back to the HRA to consider restructuring the loan that we made to them um we've had some discussions about that but when we get a proposal um that we're comfortable with as staff and they're comfortable with as as a chamber board we'll we have to bring that back to the HRA so this is more just a a a an update and a up that we'll be discussing that sometime this summer the other thing I think we can say is that um they've made one payment I think the payments are around 45,000 there's a loan forgiveness element to it they qualify I think presently for maybe a $90,000 reduction on the on the loan payback because of the time frame involved you might have that better in your mind than I do um you're correct there are two conditions of forgiveness um we could forgive up to $250,000 when they when they achieve certain Milestones um they're on their way they they haven't hit the Milestone yet um uh but they're certainly on the way and and that's part of I think the overall strategy is how to how to package deliver the things that they could get forgiveness for and then keep the ball rolling so that's we're certainly in conversation with them about that I think a second payment is due in July and they expect to be able to make that payment without a problem and then as it's thing gets reset uh whatever the balance of that loan might be assuming they meet the Forgiveness requirements we've got a guarantor on the balance of the loan so the city's in good shape there what we're hearing so far so and that's all I have all right anything else from Commissioners there motion to adjourn so moved second commissioner Jackson or commissioner U moves to adjourn other seconding and uh all those in favor of adjourning say I I I opposed carried and adjourned e