[0:00] uh welcome everybody for this work session this uh Thursday morning it is already March 13

[0:06] 2025 uh we recording MJ are you in the charge of the recording the recording has started all right thanks Stephanie

[0:14] uh very good let's uh whoever is calling the rooll please call the

[0:20] rooll commissioner agno here commissioner rer here commissioner

[0:26] Jackson here commissioner Pierce here chair hland here um we're all here this

[0:33] is thank you this is of course the uh work session for the h and it is as I said earlier uh March 13th 2025 and

[0:40] about 7:34 in the morning and uh we've got a singular beating topic this morning and continue some conversations

[0:48] we've been having around housing and its production and affordability and we've got a slate of

[0:55] uh capable staff people with us today to talk about this issue and guide us we're

[1:00] going to be guided too I think by what happens at the legislature and uh that's a work in progress and I don't know if

[1:07] any of you are watching some of the proposed legislation but um we're watching it carefully for all all of us

[1:13] and all the other mlc cities through our lobbyist at mlc so we'll be reporting

[1:19] out on that but getting his demographic backgrounding information will be important for that conversation as well so uh manager Neil do you want to turn

[1:26] it to Stephanie hackinson start right with our kind of this is a continuation of of a series of work sessions that

[1:34] we'd like to talk about housing and make sure make sure we have as staff people

[1:40] and we're interacting with state legislators to make make sure we understand what your Collective

[1:46] positions are on on housing Stephanie yes so thank you um so

[1:52] as you recall uh last month we talked about State um City policies and plans

[1:58] that help form and guide staff um in what we bring forward with

[2:04] regards to affordable housing and so today it's a continuation and we're T um

[2:10] focusing on housing statistics that are currently in place and City demographics

[2:15] as they are with most recent surveys um we have a lot of slides so like like

[2:21] last work session My Hope Is that we can get through the slides and circle back with um questions and discussion just so

[2:29] we can get through them cuz they're all different um and time is

[2:36] limited so we have presenters um Marissa is here

[2:41] um to take place of Thomas Brooks temporarily um he's out ill today so uh

[2:47] we do have a substitution but this is a collaborative effort there are a lot of departments and staff and different

[2:52] departments that have come together to put together um last presentation as well as this presentation

[3:00] why we are here to remind you is in the 2024 2025 budget work plan under livable

[3:06] City we have advanced progress to affordable housing goals including increasing housing options and

[3:12] developing a long-term growth strategy so that is one of the reasons we are here this has been a discussion for a

[3:18] while um and just getting some direction in how you want to go to fulfill this um

[3:24] work plan item the goal for today is how is a city

[3:32] changing who are we serving how does a current housing inventory serve the

[3:37] current population who do we want to retain and who do we want to attract

[3:42] what type of housing does the city want to support in light of all this

[3:49] information so some grounding definitions as when we were doing um practice runs with this staff wasn't

[3:56] always on the same page with what different things meant so we thought we better at least have some definitions

[4:01] affordable housing is Technically when you don't spend more than 30% of your income on your housing costs when we

[4:08] talk about affordable housing with a capital a um we typically mean um rental

[4:14] housing that serves households with incomes at 60% of area median income and

[4:20] home ownership in order to count towards met Council goals is 80% of area area

[4:26] Medan income however some cities have um decided that that is a challenge with

[4:31] their a um ownership model and they will go up to 115% of very median income or

[4:39] sometimes 120 and still because that would be considered affordable in their communities but rental is pretty

[4:45] standard at 60% and in order to become was that just a that's a typo then isn't it $60 it means oh that is I thought I

[4:52] fixed that typo I meant 60% of a mean income I apologize I thought I'd fixed that but I H didn't hit save

[5:00] um tear down a rebuild those are residential Redevelopment this means when a home is demolished down to the

[5:06] foundation and a new home is taking its place so when we talk about tear Downs

[5:12] it's not a large remodel it is a replacement home and housing tenure

[5:18] means the type of ownership whether it's rental or ownership that's the housing

[5:25] tenure so who lives in Nina and I'm going to pass this on to Marissa um so I'm going to walk through some

[5:31] demographic data pulled from the Census or the American Community survey so first we're going to talk a little bit

[5:36] about just the age of folks who live in Edina so on the graph here green bars

[5:41] represent Edina the dark gray represents henpen County comparing based on occupied housing the age breakdown uh

[5:49] between the two communities so ad compared to henen County as a whole the takeway here is that ad SK is older in

[5:56] terms of occupied housing compared to henpen County as a whole across the the entire

[6:01] County on the next slide um it's looking at overall so regardless renter owner

[6:07] occupied housing it's Edina as a whole and it's the same takeaway uh we tend to skew older here in Edina for our H ID

[6:15] residents compared to hanpen County as a whole I'm going to add a clarifi clarification the other this one too is

[6:23] since it's occupied it tends to be the um household

[6:28] um head of house household so that's why under 35 and under it's so low in Idina

[6:35] where on this slide it's much higher because this is overall population

[6:40] overall sorry clarification could you explain that one more time please so

[6:45] this one is when you do a survey and who is the home the head of household so

[6:51] this one's more head of household and this is overall population so a child would not be ahead of

[6:58] household which is why they skew low and so the 35 and under is the lower

[7:03] percentage because um a teenager tends not be head of household this one is

[7:09] population overall so a CH you have a much higher child number because their

[7:17] residents of udina and this is all housing this is all

[7:24] housing so why did you use henan County as a comparative as opposed to some of the Cities that are more like

[7:31] us uh we use hennipin County as a comparison in part because we are within the county and how do we rate um just

[7:39] within our larger ecosystem and it was the direction I was

[7:47] given okay if we wanted to compare I is the

[7:53] data out there to compare ourselves to Eden Prairie or to minaka or to Woodbury we could we could do that this is census

[7:59] data and American Community survey and and and and truth be told there's a lot

[8:05] of data out there and we are trying to narrow it down I mean this is already 38 slides and so we are trying

[8:12] to provide tastes and with the full understanding that we can go back and do

[8:19] much deeper Dives on any one of these and do comparisons on any one of these but wanted to give a high level snapshot

[8:29] so this it' be kind of interesting to think or look at you know how do we compare to someone like that's uh you

[8:35] still got a lot of Green Field like Prior Lake for uh to see what their TR what what

[8:41] their age brackets look like compared to ours or um pmth yeah Plymouth is is

[8:48] bigger maple girls bigger but still those might be interesting comparisons

[8:55] okay and Plymouth and Maple Grove would be within the county um for were prior

[9:00] in a different County but yeah I like the point you're getting at though it's more apples to apples yeah yeah yeah I

[9:07] mean you think about H County being dominated by Minneapolis and I don't from a population standpoint it just it

[9:14] just made me wonder I looked at this last night okay how because we don't compete

[9:21] with the county we compete with other towns for people a good subset would be the mlc

[9:27] cities think you could do that too already an existing

[9:32] list they might have it as an existing

[9:38] graph okay so looking um again at occupied housing type um so this is showing data of housing T here as

[9:45] Stephanie mentioned that means owner or renter housing and broken up by age brackets and so you can see on here

[9:51] between the ages of 55 and 75 years old predominantly own their homes with our

[9:56] largest renters being 85 years and older that's that red bar um and then when we look at under 35y olds speaking to the

[10:03] changing housing needs um and phases of Life they're also primarily renter um so you can see our largest renter

[10:09] populations are kind of skewed towards that younger and older U with our majority of our owners being 55 to 75

[10:16] age bracket is that including is that the head of household or is that

[10:21] including children or what is that this is the occupied tenure so it tends to be

[10:27] the um head of household data MH okay so

[10:32] to make sure I'm reading this right rough swag there's not percentages overall total but should I read this is

[10:39] there's almost half it kind of looks like from a color perspective of the ownership and

[10:46] half of those that live in are renters it's within each age bracket so it would

[10:53] not be able to since we sway older you know so if you layer that data on top of

[10:59] this it's not quite like that so within each age bracket this is 100% okay so of

[11:05] all 35 year olds if you take 100% of 30 um under 35 roughly 16% are owners and

[11:13] the remainder are renters but that would not include people who were 18 or under

[11:18] 18 AG so kids are not no but they but if you you can probably make some

[11:25] assumptions that in 85 and older there may not be young children in those households so of childbearing age that

[11:33] would be 35 to 55 so if you look at if you want to know where the children are

[11:40] they're probably more likely in the 35 to 55y old tranches because those are

[11:46] the childbearing family raising ages of head of household so you can make some

[11:52] infs but they'd probably be in they they may be more in houses though though they

[11:58] are as you can see and that in those age brackets 65 um down to 35 that is predominantly

[12:06] in houses um so that and the next SL actually talks about how sorry

[12:14] um I don't know what here um so households with children

[12:20] um comp comprise about 27% of the population um so you'd be looking at the

[12:26] purple uh wedge here shows married families with children and then the orange wedge shows unmarried families

[12:32] with children within that household um so about 27% of households include with

[12:37] children in them so now kind of switching over to to

[12:45] income within our community um so again we're looking at Edina compared to hennipen County families um and the the

[12:52] takeaway from the slide is a majority of Edina households bring in above $100,000 with approximately 50% of households

[13:00] bringing in $200,000 or more um in terms of that household family income um and just above 20% of households are less

[13:06] than $100,000 per year in terms of that income within the the

[13:12] household and we don't have any like higher data it's just over 200 and that's that's where the census goes so

[13:20] based on this since it's 49% of Adina households make over

[13:25] 200,000 that means about 51% of Edina households make less than

[13:32] 200,000 here again it'd be really good to have comparisons with other cities and I did find an article from Forbes

[13:38] that um provides the 50 richest cities in Minnesota Edina is actually 19 and um

[13:46] getting a handle on how the wealth in other places like

[13:52] one thing I was very impressed by was just how motanka is moving forward with affordable housing and they do have an

[13:59] arm that raises money um so they they have a fundraising aspect to it so it's

[14:05] not completely being carried by so much being carried by the city and so they're

[14:11] able to really get this Synergy going that is pretty

[14:20] powerful so the slide represents uh recent ethnicity in Edina compared again to Hanan County so Edina is on the left

[14:27] the left bar uh County on the right bar um and the the takeaway here and so it's

[14:32] broken down by census definitions um is the the data we have to work with an

[14:38] Community is increasingly uh growing in diversity but what in the from the data presented here uh legs behind henpen

[14:44] County within just under 80% of households identifying as white in Idina

[14:50] are largest within our community bip community so that be black indigenous people of color um are Asian at almost

[14:56] 9% followed by two and more races black and africanamerican and then Hispanic

[15:01] and Latino so looking at race as it's

[15:09] related to that housing tenure so again owner versus renter occupied again this would be that head of household the

[15:14] person who owns holds the mortgage or holds the lease is the is the data we're able to to pull here and so from here

[15:21] the the slide um so nearly 80% of white households in Idina are homeowners while nearly 80% of black or African-American

[15:28] households are renters and this is our largest racial disparity in terms of housing type so as a reminder 50% of our

[15:36] renters are cost burden compared to less than 30% of our owners and this pretty much aligns with

[15:43] what's happening at the state the state is one of the has one of the highest racial disparities between with own home

[15:51] ownership um especially comparing white and black African-American um we are

[15:56] fall behind every other state and Home Ownership includes Condominiums correct

[16:04] correct and then um this is a map so the the data that we had shown on the um

[16:09] previous slide was just kind of right just aggregated percentage based data um and then working with Anna in the gis

[16:15] team wanted to just provide some geographical or spatial context for that conversation um so the the map is

[16:22] showing kind of where are those households uh living as defined by uh those census takeaways So based on the

[16:28] sensus cus track which is the green outline on the screen each dot represents a different demographic group

[16:34] within that census track so the larger representation from the demographic group uh the more dots are presented so

[16:40] the more yellow areas we would see is the more um households or areas of our community with more white occupied

[16:46] housing versus other communities with different color or in kind of orienting yourself to that Southeast corner of

[16:53] Edina we see a lot of different color docks so representing black occupied households Asian Hispanic

[16:59] um and so you can see that's kind of where maybe the more diverse parts of our community are in terms of housing

[17:08] occupancy so back to me this um is a data heavy slide and what this is trying

[17:15] to show is we talk often in area meting income so for a existing four-person

[17:23] household what would be a 30% of area Medan income is 37,2 60 for a household

[17:30] up to 120 on the other side on the right hand side of 100 up to 100 20% of area

[17:37] Medi income that's an income of $149,000 so what can those households

[17:44] afford in the scales in between so someone at 30% of area median income a

[17:49] household afford at 30% of area median income can afford a rent of

[17:55] $931 and they could afford a home at that's $1

[18:00] $1,000 and so our median rent is $757 and this is median overall so this

[18:06] includes efficiencies as well as two bedrooms and three bedrooms and we don't have that many three bedrooms or four

[18:11] bedrooms so it skews on the smaller side and our median home value is roughly

[18:17] 700,000 so 14.2% of edina's population of households of four have incomes at the

[18:24] 30% of are median income that means they need in order to live here subsidize

[18:30] housing they need Section 8 or they need heavily subsidized housing where the

[18:35] rents are around 30% of arean made income or 931

[18:42] um we have 7.2% of households of four that have

[18:47] incomes at around between 30 and 50% of are income that means those 7.2% of

[18:54] those households to not be housing cost burn can forward a rent that's roughly 1,5 $100 Which is less than our median

[19:01] and it's again the median includes efficiencies in one bedrooms and this is households of

[19:06] four and home at around 194,000 195,000 and so again they would have to

[19:13] be subsidized um Apartments what these so together that is a little over 20% of

[19:19] the population of families of households of four we have 14.9% of the households that um make

[19:28] over over 80% of area median income and so they can afford homes that are in the

[19:34] $400,000 range overall um we

[19:41] have 21.6% of four person households cannot afford the median rent 57.1% of

[19:48] four-person households cannot afford a median priced home a four-person household would have a household income

[19:53] of roughly over 150% of area median income or around $200,000

[19:59] they could afford a medium pric home that if they made that much money and

[20:04] 42.9% of four person households can afford that so we have a minority of

[20:11] four um four person households in the city that can actually afford something

[20:17] greater than the median priced home so do we know Anya what percent of

[20:23] occupied homes are occupied by people who are paying more than 30% have that

[20:31] side coming up okay know do we know that do you know that for hen County you y

[20:38] okay so for seniors and I'd like to say I was made aware of a statistic um that

[20:45] nationally um seniors people age 55 and older so we included um is the highest

[20:53] growing homeless population are people 55 and older so so in

[20:59] Dina um 15% of seniors have incomes that are less than 30% of area median income

[21:06] that means the rents they can afford are $746 or home at 73

[21:13] $74,000 so they so um 15% of seniors would qualify for subsidized rental

[21:20] housing an additional 19% of seniors qual incomes between 31 and 50% of area

[21:27] meeting income so again they would qualify for a subsidized um

[21:34] our one bedroom affordable apartments that are subsidized tax credit is this

[21:40] rental range and a $142,000 home additional 6 6% of seniors

[21:48] have incomes below 60% so if you add those numbers up we have a pretty

[21:54] significant population of seniors that make under 60% of area median income

[21:59] okay question because I would be one of those since I'm married to a bus driver and I'm raking in a little over 12 Grand

[22:06] a year as a city council person does this take into account what one's actual

[22:14] mortgage burden is because there's a lot of people who don't who have paid off

[22:19] their mortgage uh this is income this does not have to do with expenses it does not have to do with medical

[22:24] expenses or assets so it's it's hard to

[22:29] meeting can I call you you're right this is income but when we do affordable

[22:35] housing we do income off of assets to qualify for affordable housing you have to consider assets but it doesn't with

[22:41] the CH with the family ones it doesn't include daycare costs or educational costs or anything so it does not include

[22:46] expenses it is income coming in right I'm just thinking because you know for

[22:51] us to keep that in mind because it is part of the whole puzzle and really

[22:57] trying to figure things out and that then that is exactly the purpose of this is what what can people

[23:02] afford they as household expenses so according to Census Data 71%

[23:10] of seniors and 51% of H households of childbearing Ages have household incomes of less than

[23:17] $150,000 Which is less than what is needed to buy a home a medium priced home 26% of seniors have incomes of less

[23:24] than $50,000 and qualify for affordable rental options

[23:32] and this has more general information because um Minnesota Housing Partnership has looked more regionally um and more

[23:40] regionally 65% of seniors are housing cost burdened and so I you know the

[23:46] calls I get are from Seniors and they are looking where they have to leave the city um to try to find affordable

[23:52] housing options when they can no longer live in their homes cuz a lot of folks have homes that are paid off um um and

[23:58] so they're staying in their homes because they can't afford rents but some don't have the capacity to live in their

[24:04] homes anymore we have re have money to get lifts elevators that go up stairways and other ways to make their homes

[24:10] handicap accessible but there are limitations to what even that can do so seniors do look outside the city to move

[24:18] but U metrowide 65% of seniors are housing cost bur so it's hard for them

[24:24] to find options outside of Edina that is even you close to

[24:31] Edina so here is renters in Edina compared to hennipen County 50% of

[24:38] renters are housing cost burdened and in the county 46% of renters are so this is

[24:43] not just an Edina problem this is a state problem and owners 21% of owners in

[24:51] Edina are housing cost burden and 29% of owners in henpen County so I this is why

[24:58] you know the state is looking at how to come up with some solutions and I will pass this over

[25:06] Addison yeah so this slide shows us people who work in Edo where are they commuting from these are the top 10

[25:12] cities of where they're coming from so you can see people who live in edana

[25:17] only make up about 6.7% of the people who work here um Minneapolis has the most they're only at

[25:23] 14 about 14% um all of those cities listed only make up about half and then

[25:29] the other half are other cities so this kind of I think shows us that people are really pretty spread out in where

[25:35] they're coming to be D from uh this slide just shows some of

[25:41] the types of jobs that might struggle to afford housing any Dina um without being cost burdened so even on the on the high

[25:48] end there at a salary of about $50,000 um the most you could afford in

[25:53] rent without being housing cost burden would be 1,250 a month

[26:02] so a lot of the workers a lot of the jobs to takeway is a lot of jobs that offers people have to live elsewhere to

[26:10] work here that um the housing here um costs exceed what the workers that work

[26:16] here can pay and that's for a single occupant this is for a single occupant and this

[26:23] is also assuming full-time in each of these positions so this is annualized based on full-time salary

[26:29] and retail sale you know some of them people are having more than one

[26:37] job so what's our housing situation we know who lives here so what's the housing that we have to offer the people

[26:44] that live here you've seen the slide before I think um commissioner Pierce

[26:49] she may have asked for this to be made um since 2014 the housing the Top Line the black

[26:57] line at the top top our homes valued between 300 and

[27:04] $499,000 since 2014 and especially since 2021 those have severely dropped off the

[27:11] amount the number of Homes at that value which is what we are talking about where the 50% of the folks can afford to buy

[27:19] um though the number of those have dropped off significantly homes valued at under

[27:26] $300,000 in 2023 it was down to like 11 houses we don't know if they exist um in

[27:33] today's numbers this is the slide ends in 2023 the assumption is those houses are gone that they increased in value or

[27:40] they have been removed conversely the homes that are valued at over a million the red line

[27:48] started out in 2014 which you know there's inflation um they were was about

[27:53] 8% of the homes in the city were valued at over a million dollars and in

[27:59] 2023 they are about 25% of the homes so we're our housing stock for homes less

[28:07] than um 500,000 and even 700,000 um well 500,000 is decreasing

[28:15] homes greater than 700,000 are

[28:20] increasing the median value of a home in 2020 was

[28:25] 551 th000 and the salary needed to and this is there are a lot of assumptions

[28:31] here we don't know people's credit scores we don't know their expenses so but generally speaking

[28:39] um with 20% down your salary would need to be 140,000 in 2020 to afford a medium

[28:46] priced home it's projected that in 2030 your median salary would need to be 258,000 to um afford a median priced

[28:55] home so the housing cost are increasing faster than most people's

[29:04] salaries this is to show scale it's Consumer Price Index yes and on that

[29:09] slide this one the green no no no you were right there so

[29:15] the median home value in 2030 is projected to be a million2 a the median

[29:21] correct this is not the maximum and we have some more um granulated data coming up on this

[29:28] even faster than we had thought so this shows scale between a rental costs and

[29:34] income um using Consumer Price Index and the black line on top is how much rent

[29:41] is increasing over time and the green line at the bottom shows what incomes

[29:46] the change in incomes over time so rents are even far outpacing incomes um which

[29:55] is leading to one of the um contributors to the fact that the median um age of a firsttime home buyer

[30:03] in Minnesota is now 38 because it takes a lot longer to save for that 20% homes

[30:10] are more expensive and rent is higher so to save for that 20% down it's taking

[30:15] significantly longer um so this is a slide actually we

[30:22] showed you I think when we were having the discussion about adus just to talk about kind of the lack of housing variety that the overwhelming majority

[30:29] of our housing stock is in single family homes or large multif family buildings

[30:34] the the missing middle there is about 12% so what we think of like duplexes um Town Homes everything up to

[30:42] like small multif family buildings up to 19 units is about 12% of our housing

[30:49] staff this is more granulated deal yeah so we've talked a lot about how the

[30:55] median home price in Edina is $700,000 but if you we can calculate

[31:02] that on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis um so that's what we've done here

[31:08] um the like tannish brown colors are homes that fall below that 700,000 for

[31:14] the median of the neighborhood and the green is where that's above so we do have several neighborhoods where the

[31:20] median home single family home is less than $700,000 but we also have nine

[31:27] neighbor neighborhoods where the median family single family home is already

[31:32] over a million dollar um and then in addition to that

[31:40] uh the where are these teardown rebuilds occurring in some of these same

[31:47] neighborhoods where the median home value is less than

[31:52] 700,000 um so this just kind of shows where those are occurring within the city the average cost of the single

[32:01] family home that was purchased to tear down um in 2023 was

[32:07] $613,000 so that's really not far off from that median um and then the average

[32:12] value of the home after the rebuild is over $2 million so you're taking that

[32:20] um the homes that are more affordable and replacing them with things that are out

[32:26] of Out Of Reach for a lot of people and this shows like the increase in the in

[32:32] the median is not just because home values are appreciating over time it's

[32:38] also because they are just being replaced by more expensive homes I have a question about this data so in our and

[32:45] it's not everyone but in some of our Friday reports we have I think data on the permits and the average price but I

[32:54] remember in like one of the more recent ones I think the average was closer to a million per permit how does that compare

[33:02] to this data that might be the value that like the applicant puts on the building permit so there's a value that

[33:07] they put when to con that's the value that's the value like to construct the house that doesn't include the land it

[33:13] doesn't mean that that's what it would sell for okay so they they put they give us that value and then our assessors

[33:19] value it at what it really is in the market CU I was always surprised by that data when it was like a million dollars average I like I didn't think we had

[33:25] very many like new houses selling for a million dollars as less as a million

[33:31] dollars yeah as little yeah so with with uh some of these slides like I think the

[33:37] last three for sure um we have to

[33:42] consider doing more of a mashup so right now you're showing us these median

[33:49] values but the previous slides you talked about what people could actually

[33:54] afford and I think you somehow we got to bring those two pieces together to tell

[34:00] the full story of here I agree and we're doing it piece so that's one reason we

[34:07] like even these two slides if you overlay them you know look where the brown is um Chowan and St hour and then

[34:16] look where the dots are yeah so a lot of these slides do require tearing apart a

[34:22] booklet and laying them side by side to um with the median priced homes in the

[34:27] you know with a family of four yeah um

[34:33] it's 490 all right so where then can

[34:38] that family four live right and when how many homes are remaining interesting to

[34:44] do a little bit more of a match up there um so you're spot on on that's exactly

[34:50] what I'm saying yep cuz this looks like we're saying well these are the neighborhoods people can afford to live in and that's not what we're actually

[34:57] saying and it's one of the reasons we have had some programs to preserve some of those single family homes

[35:03] um and here's another one to mash up so additionally this is um looking at two

[35:10] different factors one is the percent of seniors and then the percent of

[35:16] households in poverty in Idina so uh the dark blue is where there's both a high

[35:23] percentage of household in in poverty and a high percentage of seniors um the

[35:30] pink is where there's just high percentage of poverty and then blue would be where there's just a high percentage of seniors so there are some

[35:37] neighborhoods where we're seeing these like two things overlap so that's where some people might be struggling with

[35:43] housing an or Stephanie I think it's also worth noting too that some of these maps are are census trct and some of

[35:50] them are neighborhoods right um right yes this is by census track unfortunately our neighborhoods

[35:57] and our tracks don't really

[36:02] align um and then this is just looking at if you're looking at the taxes that

[36:08] um resident or residential taxes so that would be both multif family and single

[36:14] family um even though single family makes up uh like 93% of the land area of

[36:23] residential uses multif family is still bringing in about 20% so they're uh that

[36:31] makes sense right because usually multif family builds up rather than out you're

[36:36] still getting a lot of tax value out of a multif family um or you're getting Yeah by area you're

[36:45] getting more taxes so here are some other

[36:50] contributing factors yeah so this um actually gives you a sense of the the

[36:56] national Trends in household type this is for the for the whole us kind of the key takeaways from this slide are that

[37:03] um married couples with children in 1960 used to make up 44% of all households

[37:08] and today it's only 19% whereas single person households have more than doubled

[37:13] going from 13% to 28% of all households um I also think you know non-f family

[37:19] households that that is also more than doubled going from 15 to 35% and the state demographer has said

[37:26] that min soda as no surprise to anyone is getting

[37:33] older um so the last two slides is information um that I pulled from some surveys uh you'll be familiar with both

[37:39] of these um the first one is from the Hazel Reinhardt study um that the school did for projections of enrollment in

[37:46] 2022 2022 yep um they use a housing unit method um which is a way to project

[37:52] enrollment but it's not the only factor of course and most information on here is what you would speculate right that

[37:59] housing types bring different numbers of school age um single family homes have the most kids um town homes have fewer

[38:05] and apartments have the fewest kids um newer single family homes um tend to attract families with kids so they would

[38:11] be um potentially kids enrolled in the school and that older single family homes see fewer kids um when single

[38:18] family homes are resold um student numbers can change as well cuz younger families could increase the enrollment

[38:25] in older homes usually there are fewer kids um home prices impact the number of school age mid to high price homes tend

[38:31] to have more kids um lower price often have fewer school age because you can imagine who's living in them and seniors

[38:37] so this is pretty obvious and age restricted housing um won't add students to the schools um I should mention though as

[38:44] part of that study which you probably already saw um a large portion of the study talks about how a lot of our school age kids though in the district

[38:51] are actually opting um to go to other options than the actual School District itself so that's another Factor

[38:58] um the last slide is about the quality of life survey that was conducted in 2023 you're all familiar with this that

[39:04] we do this every um two years and generally um what we could glean about

[39:09] affordable housing is that the majority respondents felt there was somewhat too little or twoo little um housing um

[39:15] options for singles and families um the lowest rate of community characteristic was around availability of affordable

[39:22] housing and a variety we talked about the variety of housing options and that that two-thirds of the respondents said it was um important essential or very

[39:29] important for the city to um preserve some of those homes as

[39:34] well so that's the end pretty much of uh the presentation we're

[39:41] next um we want there's time for discussion but what we're hoping is that

[39:47] in our next meeting to really dive into what type of housing based on policies and plans and based on demographic

[39:54] information what type of housing do you all feel um we should focus on um as staff for

[40:01] our ener our time energy money and resources um what is the direction of

[40:07] future housing in the city so we're done on our end of the

[40:16] table you go back to I think it's slide 35 which is that school related one of Hazel Reinhardt there you go mean it it

[40:24] almost makes you think that it's argu I guess it's arguable that if you look at

[40:30] the right hand lower corner box that we've really been fortunate

[40:35] that our town has been we've had this tear down rebuild activity if most of

[40:41] the kids are in single family homes and there are more kids in the more high- priced

[40:49] homes we're talking about creating more affordability but where we're finding the kids is in the high priced homes the

[40:55] higher priced the home the more the kids the more kids there are in the home

[41:00] so I think there's the question of where are those kids going to school are they going to the ad Public Schools are they

[41:06] going to BR Blake and um benel are they going to Catholic schools and there I

[41:13] think the previous study that she did did talk a little bit about where um

[41:18] children were going to school based on income but I don't believe this last study mentions it so do we have any

[41:24] school population data that show the enrollment Trends with residents versus open enrollment we have 20% of the um

[41:32] Edina Public Schools is open enrolled and how does that what does that Trend look like over time over the

[41:38] last 10 years andison do you have a better idea of that than I do I believe it's increased yeah I think it's increased as

[41:44] well I think it probably is an increase and so which I mean you could

[41:51] extrapolate without the data that as the homes are becoming more expensive and we're increasing our open in

[41:59] enrollment where are those children

[42:05] going because you can make an assumption that if you're living in a more expensive home you might have higher income that could afford to send your

[42:11] kid to a different school yeah in a way it's anomalous was that what you'd think you know yeah yeah I I do think like

[42:20] we're making a bunch of assumptions yeah here and so um I I am not asking for more data so

[42:30] I'm don't take this as go get more data

[42:35] um but to be honest I don't know that we have a

[42:40] problem that we can actually solve and so like we all care about

[42:48] this but I don't know if we can actually solve it and so here's what I mean I'll give you two data

[42:55] points um when you're showing the housing

[43:01] stock do we have enough available housing stock to and I'm totally making

[43:07] this up do a tear down and build Town Homes like how much can we actually

[43:15] accomplish with what we have and I'm not I'm not asking you to answer that question today I'm just trying to let

[43:20] you understand what's in my head so we look at all of our Parcels I think I asked for this before out of everything

[43:28] that we have like what's reasonable for us to be able to um build homes that are

[43:37] at or below the median like I think we have to be uh realistic and looking at

[43:43] things like that um so that's one the second data point when we looked at this

[43:50] work um last year I don't know how much time we spent trying to come up with

[43:57] another model for this um um a model where we could um have an a sustainable

[44:05] fund to then go build housing um well throughout that whole

[44:12] thing like that the community was in such an uproar over six of 13 ideas right that I assume

[44:24] we were all getting emails I had conversations with with residents saying

[44:30] well this is a place you're supposed to work to attain and if you can't afford

[44:35] to live here and there's [Music] Hopkins Richfield right literally that's

[44:42] what people were saying um and so that led me to

[44:49] wonder is our community actually behind this or not and so that's the second data point

[44:56] this the data that we're looking at says we have a problem right so that's part

[45:02] of it the other part of the data has to show what's reasonable for us as a

[45:10] community um as a goal to go after versus us saying well we want this many

[45:17] homes or that many homes um and then the third data point to member R's Point

[45:25] earlier we don't talk about when we talk about house burden we

[45:31] don't talk about the issue she raised right you're you own your home or maybe

[45:37] you own 70% of it or whatever we also don't talk about the other side of that

[45:43] people that are living in $2 million homes and can't really afford to be in a $2 million home either and so we take

[45:50] both of those things out of it um but somehow I think we have

[45:55] to lean into and I don't like saying this but

[46:02] I'm not convinced that our community largely I think they care about it but I don't know that our community really

[46:08] wants to do the tough things to solve it and I don't know how to tease that

[46:15] tease that out but if we can there's no way we're going to be able to go to our community and say hey can you fund help

[46:22] us fund this because the slide that show median income

[46:27] and the slide all you should need is that slide and then the slide that says

[46:33] 44,000 people driving Thea a day right to work here um we don't we shouldn't

[46:41] need 38 slides to convince people that to articulate this is a

[46:48] challenge I agree with so much of what member Pierce just

[46:54] said but one thing um when we heard from so many residents

[47:01] and a lot of them were opposed to the deed tax and I think

[47:07] any uh thing that we do we need to acknowledge is this something that is a

[47:14] regressive tax and who is going to get hit hardest with this because the people

[47:19] who I am communicating with um our people who are in those categories of

[47:27] who you know wouldn't it be great if they could be here they are here but as

[47:33] property taxes are rising and other things are rising it's harder and harder for them to stay and so um moving

[47:41] forward with an affordable housing agenda I think we need to look at how do

[47:48] we do that in a way that is not disruptive and one thing that I kept

[47:53] thinking about and I've talked about this before is you know we have

[47:59] this policy that if your lot is 9,000 square feet or you know Le less that 30%

[48:08] of it can be built upon and I think um if we changed it so it was 25% like the

[48:14] larger lots that would require smaller houses to be built and it's possible

[48:19] they could be more affordable and you know we have gotten away from that I just got this book um found it anyway

[48:28] it's about to be donated it was the Susan susanka you know the not so big house and it's you know beautiful

[48:34] architecture on small lots and if we would move more in that direction the

[48:40] other thing is when you look at where are all the small little lots a lot of them are in parts of Edina where we do

[48:47] have um more affordability and we also have more diversity and so that is

[48:54] something that would help sort of protect people who are there and I remember door knocking and you know

[48:59] talking with the head of the household um and they had come from Tibet and they were right next to um 70th and um Valley

[49:10] View and it was this was the house that they had purchased and it was literally

[49:16] shaking and trembling because there was construction going on right nearby and that was and and I really think you know

[49:23] and now more recently I went out to 7th um near the 72 I mean 7200 where the

[49:32] trees all came down and stood in the front yard of the gentleman who is living in that house that is one of the

[49:39] more affordable houses and just seeing the impact of the development that is happening sometimes and you know

[49:46] development that got variances in all of that and and I think somebody told me

[49:53] minona requires people to go out and look at the site you know from the

[50:00] perspective of nearby residences I don't know if that's really true or not or maybe I'm remembering it wrong but being

[50:07] on the ground and talking to people um I think is so important and I I just feel

[50:15] like you know in getting ready for this meeting and I agree with member Pierce all of us want to see affordable housing

[50:22] I have lost I mean my my friend who retired n single mother had to move

[50:29] because of she lived right next to the Burly lot you know and looking at

[50:35] overdevelopment and we are a fully developed City but who benefits from overdevelopment and I think the

[50:41] developer might not have benefited from the overdevelopment and you know so I

[50:47] guess I'm I'm going to stop now but we need to be doing things in a way that is

[50:52] more reflective and helps us retain um

[50:57] affordable housing but I think we need development that is much more thoughtful and not so you know allowing those tear

[51:05] Downs that are just so massive it's not

[51:12] working yeah so I I have two thoughts on this one is and this is I talked with

[51:18] Scott when I was first elected about this and that is the revenue that comes from tear down rebuilds and that has

[51:25] been um a big part of because of the tear down rebuild of single family homes

[51:32] our budget has been able to grow over time because our base has been growing so quickly and the question have is

[51:40] looking at the these slides uh 29 and 30 um how much stock is left is that is the

[51:48] tear down the revenue that comes through the tear down rebuild um process is that

[51:53] going to dry up and and whenn and that kind of goes to member Pierce's concerned about the you know single

[51:58] family home median single family home hitting a million dollars um at some point in time we're going to hit set

[52:05] saturation and um I'm concerned about um you know the revenue impacts of that or

[52:12] how dependent are we on the tear down rebuilds for sustaining the revenue in the city um so you know the pie keeps

[52:20] growing right so that the taxes stay relatively low because the p is growing

[52:25] um and you know at what point does the high stop growing or the the rate of

[52:30] growth diminish dramatically um and what are the what are the fiscal impacts of that um we we can see the affordability

[52:38] uh for families um through this but um we as a an organization depend on the revenue that um comes through that

[52:47] process um just all of this together um I will just say my opinion and it's

[52:55] based on just you know lots of different sources is that we need options for seniors to be able to move out of their

[53:01] single family home that is within their range um I think you know have I have a strong bias towards bringing families in

[53:08] and school children um and I also know that it can be very frightening to leave

[53:14] your home to sell it and not have a place close by to go to and you have to

[53:19] pay start paying $3,000 rent a month your Equity dries up and what happens

[53:24] when you reach 80 and you going to live for another 15 years but your Revenue your your home nest egg is gone um and

[53:33] so the need for seniors to have safe comfortable um local housing to move to

[53:41] um I think a lot of them would like to move out of their home not everybody you know a lot of people want to age in place but to have that option of being

[53:48] able to downsize um in a comfortable and and Safe Way is uh I think something

[53:54] that I would very strongly support and I don't know what that looks like but I I I'd like to see our single

[54:01] family neighborhoods be as kid-friendly as possible um it's just why I moved

[54:06] here why a lot of people live here it's a it's a strong value in our community with our connection with the schools um

[54:13] but uh putting children in an apartment is very difficult and where our apartments are don't have a lot of parks

[54:19] and stuff so it's that shifting of the population um and is that possible and

[54:24] can we um support that

[54:29] okay have some initial thoughts I mean it's interesting to see

[54:36] more data but I don't know that I I have a ton of other thoughts than when we reviewed it last time I think like we

[54:42] know that it's a problem in Indina the state the country um I sometimes feel

[54:49] like I don't know what the right mechanisms are to begin to influence it

[54:54] and I think this is almost what you were saying M Pierce of like what can we do what's the scope of the impact that we

[55:01] can make and so mine are just like all big questions right but then also it

[55:06] goes back to how do we quantify the benefit of doing so and I I think that

[55:12] this highlights that there's a need we know that there's a need but the

[55:17] corollary to that is why do we care and I'm not saying we don't but answering that question I

[55:25] think directly I think is going to be really important as we build support for it and get Buy in

[55:32] from our community on why we want to do this and in some ways right like we can

[55:38] pick out the 10 people 15 people who reach out that are frustrated about

[55:44] something but we also have I think survey data I think it's a part of our

[55:49] um B anual survey of is affordability an issue and so there is some data that we

[55:55] can glean from that um and I I do recall I don't remember the exact numbers but it is observed as

[56:02] being an issue in our community from the survey thank you from the survey that we

[56:09] have conducted and so I think some of it is to these aren't the people that are

[56:14] all unless they're a part of the Ed neighbors for affordable housing these aren't the people that we're hearing from right they submitted the survey

[56:21] they know we know it's a problem and we're fixing it um and so I think that's another thing to keep in mind is we

[56:27] don't have to over fixate on the ROI but I think it's worth us having a couple of

[56:32] data points or um tidbits that we can discuss of why are we investing into

[56:38] this as a community if we elect to one of the data points that I would be

[56:43] interested in is the traffic impacts of people living and working in town rather than commuting in um because in addition

[56:50] to senior housing uh we we have relatively little Workforce housing and when our Workforce looks like and I love

[56:57] that data from Deed on that um but you know what our Workforce is and the

[57:02] extent it would have the effect it would have on traffic to get more people living in town who work

[57:08] here I like that point and also one thing um with our 10% affordable housing

[57:15] requirement um I am concerned about that and with the 7200 project you know it

[57:24] just it sounds like it's not working it's broken and we end up paying for

[57:31] something that we're supposed to just be getting so um I think we really need to

[57:38] revisit how viable that is and I I tried to find out where that concept came from

[57:44] and I I understand it was suggested by a council person and I think that speaks to we need and that might be wrong but

[57:51] we need to be hearing from you what is the best thing we can do in terms of

[58:00] very limited financial resources and and I would like it to be a very um holistic

[58:07] view because you know at at some point I think you know what kind of Life are you

[58:13] know do they have access to Parks you know where are the apartments what do the park facilities look like and yes I

[58:19] have in my mind just thinking about a new rec center for Lewis Park versus

[58:27] 15 units that are primarily single bedroom studio and den

[58:34] and um the tradeoff that we as a a council supported and I just I feel like

[58:44] um you know I feel for those kids who live and now I'm forgetting the name of

[58:49] the in Amidon and you know aren't going to have a building that they can go to during the summer that has AC you know

[58:56] and and I really feel for that whole Community where they have this park and

[59:01] wck center that is so inadequate and you know so what does it mean to live in e

[59:07] what does it mean to live in housing that is Affordable and what are

[59:14] the amenities like in those neighborhoods because it it has to be a comprehensive kind of analysis so the

[59:22] other thing is getting square footage for required units that are built you

[59:28] know exactly what are we getting when we talk about 10% and okay so we fixed it

[59:33] by providing 4.8 million of spark funds for that one project but we did nothing

[59:39] and now we're not talking about it so but we need to wrestle with what does

[59:44] this 10% requirement mean is it even viable um and it needs to be fixed on a

[59:51] systemic level not a caseby casee kind of basis because then

[59:57] we are going to end up continuing to just you know provide more and more public resources that could go to other

[1:00:06] projects I think one thing that would be interesting and I'm going to maybe look at you Stephanie on this is I know over

[1:00:13] time our and I know you've had some sides to this um but our ability to hold

[1:00:20] um developers or Property Owners accountable to the longev of affordable housing and

[1:00:27] I'm just thinking of the the latest approval that we did where we can guarantee the affordability and

[1:00:32] perpetuity versus you know we were limited before of 20 years and I think it went to 30 years I think even just

[1:00:40] having like how that's changed over time which I think we have seen But then why

[1:00:45] we think we're in a better position now to hold new developments accountable I

[1:00:52] think might help um moving forward

[1:00:57] you've got that data point too about how many people are in affordable housing units right now that make I Stu in my

[1:01:05] head yeah and to um commissioner Agnes Point yeah and we now put Declarations of restricted covenants against the

[1:01:11] properties where we didn't in the early early early years yeah I feel like we're in a better

[1:01:17] position um but I think just having those nuggets and that data point um would be

[1:01:23] helpful just thinking about start you know where do we start talking about this think

[1:01:30] about wion's here with us this morning from the time we were on the council together it's it's always been this

[1:01:36] notion that we wanted to make sure that we had a life cycle of housing available for people living in our

[1:01:43] community and um I think we've tried to figure out strategies around that uh to

[1:01:50] the issue of whether we now have a problem that challenges different aspects of that lifestyle housing I

[1:01:56] think you pointed that out pretty well pretty clearly that we got some challenges and the and to member IGN

[1:02:01] point the quality of life survey does as much [Music]

[1:02:07] um the challenge is that this isn't just our problem it's a global problem when

[1:02:13] you think about production and affordability we've got our own little unique Niche on that just like every

[1:02:20] Community faces that problem and if you if you go to these meetings that manager

[1:02:26] even going to or you know you have prior Lakes talking about they got all this space available to build housing it's

[1:02:32] more affordable but nobody wants it they're the Market's building what people want to live in you know and so

[1:02:39] in Prior Lake that means might be 650,000 bucks and and uh to the townhouse notion

[1:02:48] uh um look what mitaka just did they subsidized 10 town houses at a cost of

[1:02:54] $750,000 per townhouse you can't subsidize your way out of this problem so what are we

[1:03:01] going to do pick our spots and think go carollyn is saying pick your spots pick your pick your place you're going to try

[1:03:07] to make a difference and um if we want to sustain our school district which is the driving

[1:03:12] force in our town that's the reason people want to live here two reasons really location

[1:03:18] and quality of the school district so what do we do to try to the location is fixed but the school

[1:03:26] district quality you know we we work carefully with the school district to make sure that quality stays high

[1:03:32] but how do we make sure that we got kids in the pipeline um living in our town and so

[1:03:39] Hazel Reinhardt helped us with that I think uh with that analysis

[1:03:45] um I don't think it means that we should just support the notion that the more tear down rebuilds we have the better

[1:03:51] because they're more kids and more expensive houses but because I think we all believe that

[1:03:56] we'd like to see kids uh teachers and everybody else that can afford to be here be here in some form or fashion so

[1:04:03] you have a cross-section of people in your community like a lot of us grew up in everybody every kid benefits from

[1:04:10] that I think going to school with a kids that whose dad might be a doctor

[1:04:17] or whose dad might be an auto mechanic

[1:04:22] um the auto mechanics kid might be smarter than the doctor doctor's kid you know you just find Talent everywhere so

[1:04:29] I you know I've been thinking about ever since we had that meeting with hazel Reinhardt about this too and it seems

[1:04:34] like if we're going to pick our spots the the land trust idea has been

[1:04:40] interesting to me the Noah idea is interesting to me but I still don't have a sense of how far government should

[1:04:47] stick its hand into the marketplace I I I I don't know what to think about that

[1:04:53] and I think we'll get there together uh trying to work our way through this

[1:04:58] issue and I think the housing foundation will be good guidance on this because we've got some really experienced people over there to help guide

[1:05:05] us um but I think we're going to have to contemplate where where do we where do

[1:05:10] we want to put our emphasis now we might get some money from the legislature there's a bill in place to let us use

[1:05:17] leftover chip funds for posing affordability but we've seen from that

[1:05:23] big pot of money we had from the Sal Tiff District it doesn't go that

[1:05:28] far it just doesn't it doesn't last that long and go that far so what are we going to do I'm not sure either James

[1:05:34] tried to work on that problem with a group of people and we still don't have that

[1:05:40] issues uh addressed either this what our town is amenable to something like that making those kind of Investments for us

[1:05:46] there's a lot of a lot of open questions in my mind yet this is all helpful of course but what I feel well I do think

[1:05:55] we have to despite everything I started with we still got to face for reality for what

[1:06:01] it is not as we wish it to be right that was my theme slides 25 and

[1:06:08] 26 if those two Trends continue e will become an exclusive

[1:06:17] Community unless the federal government comes in and dictates we do something

[1:06:22] different and they were talking about that and National about doing that and the state is talking about doing that

[1:06:29] and so I don't like I don't know how to solve it but if we keep going the way

[1:06:36] we're going it's going to be an exclusive community and I think to me the there's

[1:06:43] two challenges one is zoning and we talked about that a little bit and the other is

[1:06:50] funding sources right so um it is I think this is still the

[1:06:57] case for zoning I think it is still easier for me to buy two lots and

[1:07:03] combine them and build a big house than it is to tear down a home on

[1:07:10] a on a single lot or and replat it to do

[1:07:15] Town Homes right and so that and so if

[1:07:21] you think about that as is this this

[1:07:27] slide and so if you think about that every

[1:07:33] year with the available footprint we have we lose more and more opportunities

[1:07:39] to do just that one idea because somebody's going to buy that lot tear it

[1:07:44] down build a house um we have a friend that bought a lot built a house didn't

[1:07:51] want anybody to live behind them bought the one behind them yeah right and replatted that so they could

[1:07:59] do like a mother-in-law Suite or something and so every year right our

[1:08:04] trend is this we're going to have fewer and fewer opportunities um unless we do

[1:08:12] something and I just yeah I don't know how to answer that question well but

[1:08:19] that's what it looks like you were talking about and maybe it was a townhouse use of the word townhouse but think of the four

[1:08:26] was it three young guys that came with the idea of the tow houses up here in Vernon and we got to the very end of

[1:08:31] that conversation all the way along I was thinking this is going to be something that's going to be hitting the missing metal and you asked what what

[1:08:38] the price Point's going to be it was7 $900,000 yeah is that the new missing middle in

[1:08:44] he dinina apparently you know so at the conference this year at the NLC

[1:08:50] conference it was by far the major discussion it wasn't wasn't ter tariffs

[1:08:55] it was the restructuring of the federal government it was housing and nobody has the answer right everybody's there's a

[1:09:03] lot of experimentation going on across the country but it's it's a problem in

[1:09:08] little towns and big towns and urban and rural and and all kinds of variations of

[1:09:13] income and as as James noted I mean no less than the vice president of the

[1:09:18] United States gave us a little bit of a lecture on what our local zoning Powers should be and how we should be acting

[1:09:25] around them so it's it's getting a lot of attention right now but no answers we

[1:09:32] we do though we're in a position right now where we could make changes or

[1:09:38] commit to a development approach where I think it could be profoundly impactful

[1:09:44] on the future because when I hear town houses I think that is a very viable option but again going back to thinking

[1:09:52] about pervia surface and thinking about how do we get units that are more

[1:09:57] affordable if we would just stand by our code and not do so many setback

[1:10:03] variances you know and I think about proposals that came to us where the entire backyard was completely

[1:10:08] obliterated and we didn't end up approving that but the most recent townhouse project that we did approve

[1:10:15] fit the code it was beautiful and we didn't get a lot of we didn't get any

[1:10:21] push back from the neighbors or anything and I think you know moving forward if we can do it you know if we can figure

[1:10:28] out a way to do um density that is not so disruptive to people who are here

[1:10:35] living in the more affordable houses who represent you know the list of professions that we just looked at today

[1:10:42] I think that that is really the way to go um and I I think that that could be

[1:10:49] so good for energy for the environment for walkability um all of that so I think

[1:10:57] just following the code and you know just being very Mindful and you know it's interesting to hear 700,000 for

[1:11:04] town houses that's a lot of money but we did 330,000 for rental units each

[1:11:12] unit you know and so there's that well I think we got a difference of

[1:11:19] opinion on the code I mean yeah you know it it's good to have zoning code and

[1:11:26] have that overall guidance in my opinion but you're going to face circumstances that are going to require variation from

[1:11:32] the code not the 10 commandments no and there can be some flexibility and like Bloomington puts a cap on um buildable

[1:11:41] area that you can only go 25% over it or something um we go over you know two and a half times the buildable area um so I

[1:11:50] think yeah you you can have some variation but we're really pushing

[1:11:57] well I think we need to differentiate between the small area plans and and the

[1:12:02] the PE and and that use and single family homes we're not pushing the limits on single family homes um I I

[1:12:09] we're not it's very SE a single a request for variance to um you know really push the limits on what you can

[1:12:15] build for a single family home so I think just a different to to clarify what you're talking about are in our

[1:12:22] areas of change are your concerns because I'm not seeing that with single family homes but the I'm seeing it in

[1:12:29] proposals coming forward to change from r one to R2 and so just kind of being mindful of

[1:12:37] that it is happening in the proposals that we're

[1:12:42] getting seen it twice there's a proposal as part of

[1:12:48] this session that duplexes and town houses are

[1:12:55] mandatory by preference in the single family neighborhood and I think we've

[1:13:01] been historically opposed to that because we don't want to cause

[1:13:07] a devaluation of single family neighborhoods so it's It's Tricky work

[1:13:13] it is yeah you can you can find a spot like we see up on Vernon where it's a

[1:13:18] it's a heavily Commercial Street it's a probably a I don't know if it's an A or

[1:13:24] Arial or a collector but on some in some locations find some spots I guess it's

[1:13:31] County Highway yeah um was a former US Highway it was a former US Highway

[1:13:38] yeah for that activity but yeah it's tough work in a fully

[1:13:44] developed Town that's

[1:13:51] true does that give you some guidance I don't think so um at

[1:13:57] all no in all fairness I think guidance

[1:14:02] comes at the next one right right yeah that's what I was going to say um so the next meeting our plan is I mean there

[1:14:10] are limitations to what the city can do but there are some things um I mean you can't buy your way out of a problem I

[1:14:16] mean that I think we all know we just there's we don't have the financial capacity we do have control over land

[1:14:23] use and Zoning we do have control over City owned land and what the future

[1:14:28] development is of City owned land we do have some controls we do have some

[1:14:35] controls over when people do I mean this land use come up with a lot split um and

[1:14:41] how the response to that is so there are some things that the city does have control over but it's um it's not a

[1:14:50] situation where we can buy our way out of the problem um and you know and and depends too when I've been behind a

[1:14:57] school bus um and I've been driving down 76 and I get there's a school bus and the bus on loads in front of the sound

[1:15:05] it's packed full of kids and so and that is an affordable development and it is

[1:15:11] and it's a family development and it it's cute I mean I'm waiting for five minutes and I'm running late um as the

[1:15:17] school bus is unloading but and they're all streaming into that building so you

[1:15:23] know there there is that um too so some affordable housing when it's family designed does but that's just a little

[1:15:30] um side so there are some things the city can do but the next meeting is really um

[1:15:39] it's a roll up the sleeve meeting it's um we're working on how it's going to be afficiated but I think we're going to

[1:15:45] have sticky pads and uh board where ideas are going to be placed and we're

[1:15:52] kind of like a strategic planning process where we try to pin down some of the ideas that

[1:15:58] you want some of the concerns listing some of the obstacles and trying to get a

[1:16:06] framework using this information as grounding background

[1:16:15] information so thank you thank you no this was intended to just give a snapshot of theate what's going on I

[1:16:22] don't think we should have our next meeting until after the legislative sessions over so that we have the inside

[1:16:28] we need to know what they told us we have to do that's a good okay that's fine um I had I wasn't thinking about

[1:16:35] that and I was thinking about memory of policies plans and data and making sure that we snapped on it while the memory

[1:16:42] wash could be wayed by the legislature we wait to see what they say yep so it

[1:16:49] may be June or July then that we next meet on this

[1:16:56] um I just I I see Nora Davis here and I'm thinking about the the difference between different neighborhoods and um

[1:17:04] what a what a jewel of of diversity is in her neighborhood um we were not on

[1:17:09] that list and I didn't understand that Lake Cornelia and South Cornelia were

[1:17:14] not on the list of median home prices by neighborhood and I was

[1:17:20] insulted by census track actually Nora but um but it's still nor I'm sorry to

[1:17:26] interrupt you but it's a work session for the council it's not a public hearing I know but I couldn't help

[1:17:31] myself maybe have a sidebar afterward or somebody but anyways um I've lost my

[1:17:37] train of thought um I don't know just uh just thinking

[1:17:44] about this in terms of of neighborhoods and um you know it's not

[1:17:50] uniform I don't it's gone now you think

[1:17:55] diversity of neighborhoods you were talking about yeah it's like and and I just you know there's a diversity of housing within different neighborhoods

[1:18:02] and just um go to that next slide though where you show where the tear down rebuild

[1:18:08] activity is yeah see look you flip those back and forth and you'll see that that

[1:18:14] neighborhood that was we thought was affordable chowen park that's where almost all the par rebuild activities

[1:18:20] taking place and and the tree REM Tak place in the more affordable neighborhoods they're moving from

[1:18:25] the country clubs and the morning sides into those other neighborhoods yep yeah and um yeah just you know what I

[1:18:34] guess what I'm thinking about is like the division of property into smaller lots and stuff and just kind of thinking

[1:18:39] about this um in small Parcels as as well we have to have a you know

[1:18:45] city-wide code but um I don't know it just it it's really striking to think of

[1:18:52] this in terms of neighborhoods we got just a couple minutes for so maybe you guys that went to the National League of

[1:18:57] cities could just is there more you want to tell us about housing I mean that's the topic we can stay on

[1:19:03] topic uh I got a lot of notes about different things that are happening

[1:19:08] observations other than those the wisdom from the vice

[1:19:14] president no no I do have a lot of notes but I

[1:19:23] mean he steered solution away from there's a lot of concern about Canadian

[1:19:28] Lumber and the impr price of lumber increasing the price of housing right at the wrong time well put it at his feet

[1:19:35] but he didn't put it at his feet uh he talked more about this is a local

[1:19:40] government issue and we want to help you and well it's a number one issue for the US Conference of Mayors president this

[1:19:48] cycle it does show the commonality of opinion amongst city

[1:19:54] leaders across the

[1:19:59] country okay well we could uh do anybody else has anything else for the good of

[1:20:05] order we can stand adjourned we are adjourned thank you thank you everybody